You know you could have asked in a much nicer way instead of being childish about it.
And Kazuya also beat him...so did Jin and Lars.
Heihachi has never tore down any buildings with his fists and Little Mac has beaten somebody who has.
I think you're the one who needs to watch the video. He didn't just make a hole. The whole place was cracking up, despite him only being in one spot. I don't see any reason to believe it's not solid.
Neither Mac or Heihachi has telekinesis and it's not like you showed Devil using it on Heihachi so that's pointless.
Like you can really prove that was light brickwork.
Pay attention. All you did was show the impact of their punches, which doesn't prove that they're same as the explosion the JACKS made. You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets. And once again, nobody is using bullets in this fight so that's irrelevant.
Because it either involved dodging bullets or taking an explosion, none which has anything to do with a fist fight.
Posting a bunch irrelevant information while brushing everything I tell you is not supporting anything with any evidence.
Right after you show me Little Mac busting through a building.
Oh but for some reason, I'm suppose to believe that Heihachi is so super strong that he's suppose to punch through Little Mac's chest when Mac's fought someone who's just as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi? Or that Heihachi won't flinch at punches from a guy who's knocked out opponents far bigger and heavier than Heihachi (and himself)? Heihachi has never taken those kind of punches and yet, you think they for some reason won't hurt him at all? Maybe it's you who needs to start using logic.
You think you're slick but you keep dancing around the point I'm making about the bullets or explosions, which are not the same as punches (again). Not once have Heihachi taken punches that do the same damage as them.
You know, it would have been much easier to say "I quit because I got nothing to prove that this would be a stomp like I want it to be". You know? Just man up!
I just want to say that if someone can tank an explosion to the face then someone's punches who can't replicate that force isn't going to do anything to him. Multiple bombs went off in his face, but we're wondering if someone's fists can knock him out?
He's lost to guys like Jin, Kazuya, and Lars? People who's shockwaves have destroyed structures. Heihachi himself crushes JACKs and shatters steel. He tanked explosions to the face. He trained a bear that was able to beat Paul. He's reacted to point blank shots, he has super human durability. The people he fought has super human strength.
Fighting people with super strength and durable? Well, Little Mac has done that too. He's beaten Mr. Sandman (who can tear through a building with his fists), Bald Bull (who can take bull charges), and Don Flamenco (who can knock away bulls).
Again, explosions are not punches so that's irrelevant.
Explosive force is greater than blunt force. Taking a charging bull is nothing compared to taking someone who's punches causes shockwaves or someone that can punch through steel. Heihachi and practically every Tekken character would pulverize a bull's head, it would be paste with a light punch.
Also does anyone know if Blood Vengeance is canon to the Tekken lore or not?
They really wouldn't do any better than Don. Causing shockwaves? Sometimes, you gotta wonder if that's just an exaggeration because that stuff already flying when Kazuya and Jin threw their punches.
Blood Vengeance isn't canon. Harada implied this on his twitter account.
Irrelevant. Just because they've beaten him doesn't imply Mac can. Heihachi has also beaten Kazuya (when Kazuya was in his prime no less), killing him in the process. They are all among the strongest fighters in Tekken. Any of them would kill Mac with a single punch.
Whereas Heihachi has beaten someone who can tear buildings down with a single punch (that isn't aimed at the building) and destroy forests.
Both feats are above breaking a small brick building with a flurry of punches.
You can't prove that he stayed still. It's an assumption.
But it's fair to point out that the building was cracking. Who cares though?
I've already shown that Tekken characters can both crack and destroy the areas around them without directly attacking it.
With at the bare minimum two punches Mr. Sandman broke a hole in the wall that was smaller in volume (if you don't know what volume is, google it) than a single JACK.
Buildings are hollow. Were you unaware of this? Did you believe buildings were completely filled in?
True, which is part of why Little Mac is so much less threatening an opponent than one of the Devils. He's also much weaker, slower, and more fragile.
So why do you think he can challenge Heihachi again?
Now you're moving the goalposts. You wanted to know how powerful Devil is. I showed you.
"Oh but neither Heihachi nor Mac have telekinesis and you didn't show them using it on Heihachi-"
But Little Mac isn't a building, why can you apply Mr. Sandman punching a building against Mac? < --------- This is you.
Also, I could ask you to prove that Mac has ever been hit by one of Mr Sandman's punches in canon, or that Sandman was punching that hard in the fight.
But the point is that Heihachi has beaten opponents who are capable of far more than any Mac has beaten.
Which is the same train of logic you tried to use by bringing up Mr. Sandman's feat. "Tried" being the key word here. You failed to do so effectively because you were ignorant of the fact that Sandman's feat was woefully inferior to the feats of the Tekken characters.
Each individual brick was smaller than his fist. It was light brickwork.
I didn't say they were. I just said they were far superior than the impact of Mac's or Mr. Sandman's punches. Try to keep up.
So you concede that they can move as fast as bullets?
If one of them moves as fast as a bullet with their fists, what are they doing Bro Smash?
Which is a shame really. If you gave Little Mac a gun he would have a better chance.
Slightly. Heihachi would still win.
Why do you believe it doesn't matter that Heihachi is fast enough to dodge or block bullets? Why do you believe reaction-time isn't important in a fight?
Why can Heihachi dodge a bullet, but not dodge Mac's much slower punch?
Why can Heihachi survive a massive explosion, but be knocked out by Mac's much weaker punch?
I've posted speed feats, durability feats, and strength feats for Heihachi and characters around or below Heihachi's level.
You've posted a single punching strength feat for Mr. Sandman. One that is inferior to many of the various strength feats in Tekken.
Little Mac hasn't. Mr. Sandman has. With a flurry of punches. Heihachi and friends have done similar with one. That wasn't aimed at the building.
How are you not getting this? Is it intellectual dishonesty, or are you legitimately having trouble comprehending something so basic?
Mr. Sandman is considerably weaker than Heihachi.
In fact, let's look at the first punch he threw at that wall. It could only dislodge some bricks from the wall, making a hole somewhat bigger than his fist.
Wow man. This guy's a ****ing powerhouse. He can definitely take on a guy who tears through reinforced steel with his fists and fights guys that can toss tank turrets around. That was sarcasm by the way. I don't feel like I should have to say that, but you might legitimately think I was being serious.
I do like how you're sheepishly avoiding acknowledging Bryan Fury by the way. Bryan Fury who has never been implied to have come close to winning the King of the Iron Fists tournament, like Paul, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi have.
Why should anyone care that Mac has knocked out people bigger and heavier than Heihachi?
Heihachi literally tore the JACKS apart with his fists, and they are also taller and heavier than Heihachi. Oh, and they're made of reinforced steel. Can't forget that part.
Heihachi is more durable than any Punch Out character, as well as the JACKS, despite their size.
Heihachi has taken punches that hit harder than Mr. Sandman and Little Mac.
Mr. Sandman can break a hole in a brick wall with a single punch. Heihachi can punch through reinforced steel. He has fought and beaten people who can crater steel and shatter glass with the shockwaves of their punches. He trained a bear that beat Paul Phoenix, who as we see physically matched Bryan Fury (the guy who tosses around tank turrets and steel girders as if they were baseballs) and crumbles their surroundings with a clash.
So really, why should I think Mac can hurt Heihachi? Does he or any Punch Out character have feats on that level?
He's taken a bullet to the teeth, and caught it.
He's withstood punches that can level buildings and destroy parking lots.
He's fought people who are provably bullet-timers. "Oh but they don't punch as fast as b-" No. Prove it.
Yeah right. Anyone can see how badly you're getting your ass kicked in this debate. Story of your life, right?
You have no legs to stand on. Concede the debate and learn something from this experience.
And now you're cowardly trying to deny the superior feats Tekken has so you can attempt to salvage the debate. But you can't. No one here is stupid enough to fall for it.
Heihachi wouldn't just beat Little Mac. He would beat the entire cast of Punch Out at the same time.
I meant to say that I haven't seen each of those characters do all of those things at once.
Nice proof there.
Now you're just making stuff up. Nobody ever tore a building with a punch and just destroying a forest doesn't count.
Sorry, all of that isn't as impressive as destroying a building with fists.
None of that matters.
Because he beat someone as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi and beaten guys far bigger than him.
As for being "weaker, slower, and more fragile"...nice proof there again.
You're right, you did show me how powerful Devil is. That doesn't mean what you showed was relevant. Your logic is that just because he has that ability, that gives Heihachi the edge over Little Mac. I can use that same logic and claim that just because Great Tiger uses magic, that gives Mac the edge over Heihachi.
If you want to play the whole "did this happen in canon" game, I can do that with Heihachi too; did Kazuya ever punch him that hard? Did he just shrug it off like you claim?
It's also pretty clear you don't get my point; Mr. Sandman was PUNCHING the building and punching is what he does in a fight like against Little Mac. He didn't shoot it or blew it up. He did it in a way he'd always do in a fight.
What you doing is trying (key word: trying) bring up everything else BUT something as direct as that and trying to claim Heihachi easily beats him, in which you failed to do.
He's a big guy. Of course they're smaller than his fists.
Despite not doing anything close to what Mr. Sandman? What a joke!
Now it's my turn to say "try to keep up".
Read what I said again:
"You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets."
It should be as clear as day, NemeBro.
Because bullets are not the same as punches. Dodging or catching a bullet says nothing about how many punches he can dodge from up close. In addition to that, the guys that he lost to was never said to have bullet-like punches anyway.
Replace Mac's name with either Jin, Kazuya, or Lars.
You see what I'm saying? Catching just one bullet and surviving an explosion that knocked him out doesn't suddenly mean he can't be beaten by far less.
Almost none of those feats you posted were relevant. The only thing you posted that counts was strength feats, which, no matter how much you try to turn it, is very comparable to Mr. Sandman's feat.
Get the point now?
You should be serious since it's true...except for the whole tank turrets part since Heihachi never fought Bryan.
And yet, you don't even have a shred of evidence that he even fought Bryan. So that's also irrelevant.
The point I'm making is that the fact Mac has beaten guys bigger and heavier than Heihachi means that there's no way Heihachi is going to be laughing at these kind of shots.
You like to keep bringing up his durability and how strong the other Tekken characters are but one thing you can't deny is that Heihachi has never once took any kind of attack and shrug it off like it was nothing. Not even that explosion.
I've been through this already. At this point, you're just ignoring what I'm saying and it's pretty clear.
Shouldn't that be your job?
You still claiming he withstood punches like that but you never proved that they can tear through buildings, nor can you prove that he wasn't hurt by them.
Please! You hardly said anything relevant throughout this entire debate, just showing how delusional you are. I guess that's regular trait of yours.
Just to let you know, I got no problem with you thinking Heihachi wins...but it's not a stomp and that's very clear.
Oh but they have done them though? Now we're getting somewhere.
It's irrelevant though. If they can rend steel, glass, and concrete then they are strong enough to do so. If can dodge and block bullets, they are fast enough to do so.
Concede.
No one Mac has fought can output the same damage they can.
Pfffft!
Doesn't count? **** off binky boy. It sure as **** does count. It's a feat for Devil, who Heihachi beat in Tekken 2.
I'll grant you I was exaggerating on the building bit, but Jin and Kazuya shattering the window panes up to the top of a skyscraper from where they were standing is still more impressive.
Prove it.
Let me explain this for you: you are aware that you can do more damage to something by punching it directly, right?
For example, take a cup, place it on the ground, and hit it. It moved, right?
Next, take that same cup and place it on the ground. Then, walk ten feet away, and throw a punch. You could even punch something else if you want. The cup didn't move nearly as far, if at all, right?
Paul, Bryan, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi could all move that cup by punching it ten feet away. Do you see what I'm saying, or are analogies too complicated for you to understand?
I accept your concession binky boy, because it being hollow sure as **** does matter. It makes it easier to punch through.
Mr. Sandman is much weaker than Heihachi. That pussy can only punch a small hole in a brick wall. It takes him an extended period of time to destroy a small building. He's a wimp.
This is all he can do with a single punch. He shattered a few bricks. Heihachi rends steal.
Yep, I am saying that Heihachi beating far more powerful and versatile opponents than Mac or anyone Mac has faced means that is but one reason that Heihachi would literally kill Little Mac.
You could, but you'd be missing the point entirely.
What does Great Tiger's magic do for him? Some teleportation or minor illusions. Nothing that would bridge the gap that is Heihachi's overwhelming superhuman physical attributes.
What does Devil have going for it? Oh, you know, superhuman physical abilities above even Heihachi, flight which makes his superhuman prowess even more dangerous, telekinesis that can crush and explode a motorcycle (this would kill Little Mac by the way), and enough power to destroy a forest.
Do you get it? Devil's abilities I cited are actually relevant to the fight at hand because of how quantifiably impressive Devil is. Great Tiger having minor magic powers proves Mac can handle some unusual, but not particularly potent abilities.
They're not comparable.
No, you're provably the one who didn't get my point and have publicly embarrassed yourself, as I said above.
Also, the notion that Mac might not have ever been hit by Mr. Sandman has merit, considering that Mac's entire portrayal is one of a smaller, weaker fighter who relies on quickness and intelligence to overcome physically superior foes.
So we have Mac MAYBE taking punches who was SLIGHTLY superhuman. Anything else?
Once more, open up an English textbook and get to studying. There is no discernible meaning in the words you have written.
Heihachi has done far better than punching a small hole in a brick wall.
Mr. Sandman needs time to destroy a small building. With a single punch he can only do that.
If they can move their bodies and hands as fast as bullets, why can't they punch as fast as bullets?
True, Tekken character punches are far more dangerous than bullets.
It says a lot if those punches are much slower. Like Mac's.
They don't need to be. They have feats proving that they too have bullet-timing speed.
If only. This might actually be a fight then.
I see what you're saying, but you're wrong, and I'll tell you why.
You're using "circular reasoning". This is a logical fallacy where your conclusion is buried in your premise.
Which is to say, you are asserting that Heihachi is easily tagged by punches slower than bullets, because he was tagged by Lars, whose punches are slower than bullets, because Heihachi can be tagged by punches slower than bullets, because Lars hit him and he is slower than bu- wait, that doesn't make sense. Who says Lars is slower than bullets? He has dodged and blocked bullets in Tekken 6, as have many characters in Tekken. So what says they are slower than bullets?
Nothing actually.
Repeating yourself doesn't make what you say true.
No, they're not. Mr. Sandman could punch a hole in a brick wall with a punch. Impressive, a bit above peak human, but that feat has nothing on people who devastate their surroundings indirectly with their fights.
Reread what I said again. You just agreed that Mr. Sandman is weaker than Heihachi and friends. Are you conceding?
No, but Paul matched his physical strength. The same Paul who was defeated by Kuma, the bear Heihachi trained.
Read above.
Him taking punches that level the area with their shockwave, dominating massive steel androids, and surviving a massive explosion say differently.
Here is how this debate has been going.
Me: *Makes a statement on the outcome of the fight, then supports it with sound logic, adequate evidence, heaping piles of charisma, and hilarious commentary*
Bro Smash: Nuh uh!
Get a better argument.
To be fair he's also never been faced with punches as weak as Little Mac's.
Also he took that bullet attack and shrugged it off. With his teeth.
No, you haven't. You have not proved Mr. Sandman's punch is as good as the ones I provided (I mean, you can't, it's inferior). You haven't provided evidence that Mac can punch hard enough to hurt Heihachi. You've provided almost nothing.
I've responded to every single inane point you have brought up and crushed it under my heel. You blatantly claim feats "don't count", refer to them as "irrelevant", and blatantly try to claim that Kazuya and Jin's feat is an "exaggeration", all without providing evidence for these claims. I've already won this debate, and everyone can see it.
Why would it be my job to prove that their punches are slower than bullets? That's your claim. You prove it.
Uh, I've shown you Paul and Bryan leveling a parking lot with the shockwave of their punches.
How strong do you think someone has to be to punch through a brick wall?
Okay, stop stealing the lines I use against you and playing them off as your own. "I guess that's a regular trait of yo-" I just said that to you. Changing the words slightly doesn't make it not plagiarism. You've done it several times in this post and it's just sad.
I've proven Heihachi is stronger, faster, and more durable. Not by a small amount, either.
Heihachi stomps. I know it, everyone but you knows it.
It doesn't matter. If it was from the stomps or the punches, the feat is considerably better than Mr. Sandman's for reasons illustrated.
Mr. Sandman can only put a small hole in a brick wall. He'd be garbage tier in Tekken.
Still no proof. I'll accept this as a concession.
Hahah, look at this dumbass getting his ass kicked and then stumbling back to his feet asking me if I'm okay, as if he didn't just get publicly embarrassed.
You still haven't even addressed that Mr. Sandman (you know, the guy you are using to support your entire argument), with one punch, could only punch a small hole in a brick wall. Probably because it invalidates your entire argument (though everything I said did). But I'm ignoring everything you're saying?
Cry more about it. I won this debate, now put your tail between your legs and get the **** out of my thread.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 14th, 2014 08:16 AM
