You got it backwards: you can have a spacetime without causality, but can't have causality without time. There are certainly a lot of stuff we don't know, and time is one of the most strange ones, but there are other things we do know, like time "makes" reality in the way that you can't have any event, nothing can be without time. Not even random quantum fluctuations. Is not only impossible physically but logically.
So the answer to this thread is: yes. Time is real (philosophically you can even say is the only real thing). But if you ask what IS time? well... that is a much more difficult and deep question. You can describe it empirically by it's behavior like one fundamental dimension and the flow of entropy but... what really is it's nature? Why is the way it is? nobody knows.
Interestingly: in some ancient traditions time is the very true nature of "GOD" trascending any divine manifestations (some several times older than the age of our universe). So in a funny and profane way, not even gods understand time's nature fully (as they are only imcomplete, temporal manifestations).
Last edited by Squirtle on Apr 17th, 2015 at 07:14 PM
Philosophy can be made with wrong postulat. But I prefer a clear philosophy without a ton of useless philosophical concepts based on "true" facts...
It will always be cleaner.
So Space and time. Yep. how to explain imagine a cube in a plan with 3 axis and "Coordonées" x y and z.
Well the cube is define by those "coordonnées" if it don't have coodronnées" it doesn't exist..
Coordonée are also a tool to mesure the distances, the position (like our clocks) and in the same time it's real. it designate real things.
In the reality thats the same. Evrythings is define by space and time.
You exist in a place from a certain time to an other one.. And uring this time you change things happen.
That's the most elementary truth before nothing is totaly true.
Yhea what is time is also a scientific question.. To me it's continue fluid. Well we can mesure the time. With units and numbers.
Let's make an experience, we will try to find the most basic element in time, the quark. The most litlle things ever.
Well you cannot find, didn't you? Because you can always devide 1 s / 99,999999... x10^9999999999...... You wil just get closer to 0.
You can assume that this quark of time is very near 0 or equal to 0 but will mean that 1s, is made on infinites quark of an null valor.
so it mean 0xinfinite or 0/0= whatever you want.
So let's keep with the first hypothesis... You can represent time from a point a to a point b.
Combined with 3D space. You can say something star to a point A at x/y/y and end at a point B at x/y/z bis.
Last edited by Revanchiste on Apr 18th, 2015 at 02:15 PM
Philosophy can be made with wrong postulat. But I prefer a clear philosophy without a ton of useless philosophical concepts based on "true" facts...
It will always be cleaner.
So Space and time. Yep. how to explain imagine a cube in a plan with 3 axis and "Coordonées" x y and z.
Well the cube is define by those "coordonnées" if it don't have coodronnées" it doesn't exist..
Coordonée are also a tool to mesure the distances, the position (like our clocks) and in the same time it's real. it designate real things.
In the reality thats the same. Evrythings is define by space and time.
You exist in a place from a certain time to an other one.. And uring this time you change things happen.
That's the most elementary truth before nothing is totaly true.
Yhea what is time is also a scientific question.. To me it's continue fluid. Well we can mesure the time. With units and numbers.
Let's make an experience, we will try to find the most basic element in time, the quark. The most litlle things ever.
Well you cannot find, didn't you? Because you can always devide 1 s / 99,999999... x10^9999999999...... You wil just get closer to 0.
You can assume that this quark of time is very near 0 or equal to 0 but will mean that 1s, is made on infinites quark of an null valor.
so it mean 0xinfinite or 0/0= whatever you want.
So let's keep with the first hypothesis... You can represent time from a point a to a point b.
Combined with 3D space. You can say something star to a point A at x/y/y and end at a point B at x/y/z bis.
That's like space you can have 3D universe with nothing innot a particle... So what's space???? What it's made of?
And let's ad aprrallle universe with amternative physics laws with a space designed in 9D. And time design in 666D instead of 1D where 666 alternative realities happen in the same space !!!! Just to get mad !!!!
Sounds more like you're trying to describe the Planck scale, where Planck length (10^-33cm: about a million billion times smaller than a quark), and Planck time (10^-43 seconds), are the smallest units of measurement recognized by modern physics (anything smaller and quicker is considered meaningless in the context of the Standard Model).
Spacetime (ie, space and time as a single reality) is said to be discontinuous -- a frothing, roiling field of quantum fluctuations -- on the Planck scale. Neither space nor time are anything like what we experience macroscopically.
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Last edited by Mindship on Apr 18th, 2015 at 03:48 PM
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Uh, no. Even without light, time would still exist as a concept, and we would still be able to perceive it through our other senses. So long as there are events in the universe that fail to occur simultaneously, we can be sure that time is very real. Yes, even without watches.
I'm not the one claiming math will flawlessly represent the universe due to mathematical relatioships "matching" physical interactions. Math are obviously logical constructs, I don't see the negative in that regard.
Time is the manifestation of periodicity. Is it real? No.
Put yourself in a close room, where everything is dark and there is nothing happening.
Furthermore, what is time to an Immortal being? An immortal being is eternal and therefore doesn't experience time. Sure his environment would be changing but time itself doesn't exist for him. Time isn't a thing but a perception.
Time doesn't exist, it's the product of our imagination.
Anyone else think the OP's question is loaded with anthropocentric specialness? Like a quieter solipsism?
If you don't hold yourself or lifeforms as special little nuggets of meaning and truth, then you would say that regardless of us, time as a linear progression of events via entropy will happen until entropy is maxed out, when no events can happen at any scale ever again: no more progression of instances, no way to tell that time has any direction at all. It would be akin to there being no time. In a way, there wouldn't be. Universal stagnation.
If you think that humans' minds are island universes of fantastic worth and infinite meaning, then sure... time is as illusory and arbitrary as our clock-system of measuring sequenced instances. Which is just another way of saying: there's a difference between 'Time' as a universal function and 'time' as an arbitrary measurement.
Big T Time =/= little t time. Or tea time. Teat time.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
And the individual's relative position in space and time. The atom's in a body or structure moving at near-light speed will physically age slower than the atom's caught in a planet or star's gravity well. And cesium atoms on Earth's surface decay slower than one's in satellite in orbit due to the stronger pull of gravity of the planet slowing them down.
That's not an arbitrary, anthropocentric perception of time's passage. That's an actual, built-in to the fundamental rules of the universe phenomenon. Time is a real thing, regardless of life forms who can think about it. To think that our existence shapes the reality of the universe is the height of hubris. We're not special.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
^ Are people asking whether cause/effect relationships exist?
Because you could also simply argue that the future creates the past as much as the past creates the future. No linear time needed to read into universal interactions in any way other than a mathematical representation which would be akin to an anthropocentric perception.
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