What's really funny is that many of the people who're claiming it's "barbaric" to kill cold-blooded murderers think that it's perfectly acceptable to kill unborn babies. LOL. I guess evil murderers>innocent unborn babies in their eyes. LOL.
__________________ Darwin's theory of evolution is the great white elephant of contemporary thought. It is large, completely useless, and the object of superstitious awe.-Dr. David Berlinski, Philosophy
Most people believe Evolution not because they themselves are dumb, but cause they trust the "experts" who are feeding them evolutionary fast food, and so they don't bother questioning whether or not it's true.
Star, I've warned you over your bad language before. I am putting it on your record if you do it again and after that, it is a ban. Changing a couple of letters to form the same sound still counts as bad language.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
A life for a life isn't revenge, it's justice, and fortunately the civilized world still uses capital punishment while the uncivilized world lives in a deluded "taking a life is always wrong" mindset.
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
Maybe as a clarification, psmith, do you mean that everyone convicted of first-degree murder should receive the death penalty, or that only some of them, in particularly severe cases should?
As defined in the US. The problem with your question is that any case of first degree murder is considered "severe", hence the punishment. And I'm guessing your question is assuming all of the evidence has shown that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The discussion really seems to be more about rehabilitation, though. I am not interested in rehabilitating any murderers. That's just my opinion and many will not agree with that. I don't understand dadudemon's argument about rehabilitation either so I'm asking for clarification and to cease dumb emotional outbursts that make no sense.
If this is considered too "right wing", know that I'm also against the 3 strikes rule a lot of states have regarding non violent crimes.
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
Eh you're forcing me to give you a black and white answer with that question. But fine, for first degree murder as was defined, I do. I take it you don't? Why?
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
Well, I think that's where the confusion comes in, because you say you agree with the death penalty as it is in the US, but in the US not everyone convicted of first degree murder receives the death penalty. It seems like your stance is more pro death penalty than the status quo in the US (and in all US states). Which is fine to have, again, I just think that's where some confusion came from (the other part of the confusion came from dadudemon saying he disagreed with supporting death penalty, but then writing about how he agreed in some cases).
I am altogether against the death penalty. Fundamentally I don't think the government should have the right to kill its citizens. Further I do believe in rehabilitation in most cases. And I think that having a just legal process for the death penalty is actually more expensive than life without parole.
Well, to clarify the majority of the US states support the death penalty (31 states vs. 19) and in terms of polling, you'd get more people supporting it than opposing it. But yes, I support the death penalty for first degree murder. I used to support it for treason but I've since modified that to life in prison at some black site.
See that's one of the few rights I would give the government. I call that justice as opposed to me doing the killing which would just be revenge. And I agree with you about the financial repercussions of the death penalty phase but it's because it needs an overhaul. Putting someone on death row for 20+ years is idiotic.
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
So what if it's considered "too right wing"? That's much better than being "too left wing", that's for certain. The overwhelming majority of the time the right wing IS right as far as morals (and pretty much everything else) are concerned.
__________________ Darwin's theory of evolution is the great white elephant of contemporary thought. It is large, completely useless, and the object of superstitious awe.-Dr. David Berlinski, Philosophy
Most people believe Evolution not because they themselves are dumb, but cause they trust the "experts" who are feeding them evolutionary fast food, and so they don't bother questioning whether or not it's true.
Last edited by Star428 on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:40 PM
Too right wing might be if I supported the last statement I made regarding the 3 strikes rule and nonviolent crimes.
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
Edit:Nevermind. I see that you specified non-violent crimes.
__________________ Darwin's theory of evolution is the great white elephant of contemporary thought. It is large, completely useless, and the object of superstitious awe.-Dr. David Berlinski, Philosophy
Most people believe Evolution not because they themselves are dumb, but cause they trust the "experts" who are feeding them evolutionary fast food, and so they don't bother questioning whether or not it's true.
Last edited by Star428 on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:52 PM
I'm sorry but I can see valid points except for putting in an express lane for the death penalty. The appeals process is our checks and balances against wrongfully executing someone. To try and get that cut down or out would be a massive step backwards.
The appeals process is way too long, mired by unnecessary red tape. They're not spending 10-30 years trying to make sure the person is guilty. Let me ask you another question. Would you support the death penalty in the case of unequivocal guilt?
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
Honestly I don't support the death penalty. Life in prison is often times a worse punishment. Life in prison is cheaper for the state. Plus you may still get some use out of the prisoner. Plus how we treat our convicts I feel is one measuring stick on how we've progressed as a civilization.
As for unequivocal guilt. That does not exist yet. There have been too many cases where an innocent person was executed already. Or some innocent person has been set free due to new evidence yes even 10 to 30 years after a case.
Let me ask you an equally loaded question. Do you want other human beings to die?
And I think the seriousness of a crime is measured by the punishment we administer and I think we have progressed as a civilization precisely because we have maintained the death penalty but made it more logical and humane. I disagree with the notion that life in prison is sometimes a worse punishment. You should see these documentaries of murderers just having a ball. Granted it's not the outside but they at least get to live, which is already insulting enough based on the crimes they committed and that's really my point. Why should they get to wake up breathing every day. Furthermore, those who are lifers have no reason to behave. They've killed and will likely kill inmates, so they leave more dead in their wake. Lock them up in ad seg? That works until they get that hour in the rec yard and they assault an officer. All of these are interesting points of discussion but I focus on the fact that they're allowed to wake up every morning for the rest of their lives.
It was a hypothetical question because I wanted to gauge whether you oppose the death penalty based on the chance of getting it wrong, or using that as a smokescreen. Also, the number of wrongful deaths has been so miniscule, I think it's illogical to ban the entire punishment. Otherwise, I would argue that there's been more wrongful deaths for innocent victims going to prison and getting shanked.
I did not ask you a loaded question, I asked you a hypothetical one. They are not the same but I'll entertain your loaded question. I want other humans beings who deserve death, to die.
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
I think that's actually a very valid argument. The state of the prison system is abysmal and things like shankings could be minimized through policy changes and investment.
__________________ Darwin's theory of evolution is the great white elephant of contemporary thought. It is large, completely useless, and the object of superstitious awe.-Dr. David Berlinski, Philosophy
Most people believe Evolution not because they themselves are dumb, but cause they trust the "experts" who are feeding them evolutionary fast food, and so they don't bother questioning whether or not it's true.
But then I ask you, if policy changes can be made to the prison system, can't we do the same to the death row process?
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
KMC Community Forums
Aug 10th, 2015 03:35 AM
