They are super human just as much as all the skilled Main heroes I listed. Even John McClain can be argued to have super human durability. But we wouldn't call the character super human. He is just a regular Cop in the wrong place at the wrong time. A lot of movie characters have flashes of what we would call superhuman instances. Doesn't mean we should classify them as full on superhumans.
Thats why Die Hard isnt a sci-fi movie that features an enhanced hero.
The Watchmen (sans DM & Ozy) are not super human. Having a few "slight" instances of questionable feats doesnt make it so.
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Last edited by Inhuman on Mar 8th, 2016 at 07:09 PM
You realise you are arguing with a guy who has a massive hardon for Ozy right? Like he literally claimed that a pro-Ozy post made by Robtard started to arouse him. Just read through the Vandal Savage vs Ozy thread.
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You said they displayed such speed in X-Men, which is a flat out fie. We were SPECIFICALLY talking about movement. Punching and dodging movement. I was illustrating that clearly Ozy is faster than any normal human or a peak human. This wasn't displayed in how fast he was moving his arms, but via logic and other feats. We were SPECIFICALLY talking about those things. Not movement via teleporting. Jesus Christ, this was beyond obvious. You're better than this VD, maybe not, but you should be if you're not.
You didn't answer my question, is spiderman faster than Bucky or Cap? IF so, why wasn't he punching any faster than them, and in fact, appeared to punch slower than them? Which illustrates the point I'm making, and a common theme in movies, they don't always illustrate exactly how fast somebody is during h2h fights so the audience gets a good show of the fight. Do you disagree that directors do this sometimes?
Now, how do we know Ozy is likely much faster than the director showed in his fights. Simple
1. Though not on the same level of proof as my movie feats, the DC database does illustrate something very pertinent to the discussion. N.O. and R are both expert martial artist. It even notes that they can take out multiple prison level guys with ease. So if they are THAT good, and they can't even land a blow on Ozy.... two things must be present
A. Ozy must have heightened reactions and perception in order for him to not even have a single blow landed on him by expert martial artists. There is no way around that.
B. His skill level must be so far above them, that he can casually monologue as he's proceeding to not have a blow landed on him. His skill level would be off the charts for not a single blow to land on him, sometimes with his back turned.
2. If Ozy is fast enough to dodge bullet fire in his assassination attempt and finish off the assassin as he did. Or when he caught the bullet with his hand... while basically not even looking and his hands at his side. He moved his arm so fast and with SUCH PRECISION... that he was able to raise his hand after the bullet was fired and still catch it. If he can move his arm that fast... he can clearly punch faster than what was shown.
It's like superman in comics.. if he can read every single book in the world on medicine in a minute.. and he's shown actually flipping pages... Well... why wouldn't he be able to punch someone 100 times in a second? He should easily be able to. Or even a thousands times in a second. You can't read every book on a subject in moments and yet not be able to punch someone that fast. You could. Just cause superman isn't shown doing it, doesn't mean he can't. Use your damn brain. If Ozy can move his hand that fast and is dodging fire... he can punch faster than what was shown. Hence the SWOOSH noises. So if they weren't included to illustrate he's faster than them... what was the sound effect for?
So Nite Owl and Rorschach obtained superhuman durability through training? That explains everything.
Its called a movie. Its not real. Like somebody has already mentioned, Jason Bourne could have easily done the samething as Nite Owl and Rorschach. Does that make him superhuman in your book? How about Bruce Lee? He beat many more highly trained people than mere street thugs so he must be superhuman too right?
Being able to do something normal humans have trouble doing doesnt automatically make you superhuman. Your definition of the word is skewed.
I agree with KT. I figure we judge super human off off anything that's above the capabilities of peak human. A peak human is anyone that maxes all the possible stats of a real world human, hence 'peak'. If you can take out an entire room of armed and trained soldiers at age 14 like Hitgirl, or catch a bullet like Ozy, you are super human since it can't be achieved by a normal human.
Have I just been going off the wrong criteria for peak human or super human my entire life? Thats how I always judged it
Thats just it though. They do things that no normal human can do. It's not that we have trouble with it. It's that its flat out impossible. Your first sentence talking about Nite Owl and Rorschach having superhuman durability that cant be achieved through training proves my point and is exactly what I'm trying to say. They are super human.
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Last edited by Arachnid1 on Mar 8th, 2016 at 07:15 PM
Tell me something.. how do we define what a peak human is.. if we don't look at what a peak human can or has done? Explain how we define something if not looking at real world humans. Expand please.
In the real world, that's how we would judge it. But in action movies? Heck even side characters like Lois Lane have some durability feats that put them above peak human. Where do we draw the line? As soon as a character does something above what a peak human can do then they become superhuman? That means nearly all action movie characters become superhuman. Example: Dutch from Predator was able to shoot an arrow through a tree trunk. In the real world that impossible for any human to do. Do we consider him superhuman?
Right? How the f else do we define what a peak human is, if not looking at what humans are capable of? That IS the criteria of defining peak human or superhuman. It's like trying to define what beyond human level intellect is.. and then going... but we don't judge that based on human level intellect capabilities... WTF.. that is Exactly what we use to define it. How else can you define it? For God's sake the word Human is in peak-Human and Super-Human... yet we don't look at human capabilities to define them? Now I've heard it all...
That wall of text is irrelevant, as I never made claims about anyone's actual speed. I have never stated that Ozy is not fast. I know Ozy is fast, because he can catch a bullet from a gun with a muzzle velocity of between 209 and 300m/s. All I said was the age of the film is not really an excuse for anything that the director did not choose to visually include, because we have seen enhanced speed depicted, in numerous ways, across various films predating Watchmen. You, as usual, went and read what you wanted to read in my posts, instead of what my actual argument was. Something which you have done numerous times in the past with me and others.
And doesn't work like that. You made the claim. You need to provide concrete evidence from the creators. Not speculate and try to flip the burden of proof onto me. Also, it's truly astounding the length of post you put out over an imagined slight against Ozy's speed.
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Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Mar 8th, 2016 at 07:22 PM
So Nite Owl and Rorschach are superhuman although they were never identified as ever being so in the comic or movie and nobody can actually provide proof of a valid origin of said powers or what they might even be. Gotcha. Might as well be arguing that Dustin Hoffmans Rainman character was superhuman too because he's better with numbers than most people..
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Last edited by tkitna on Mar 8th, 2016 at 07:24 PM
Bud, Dutch was the best of the best when it comes to Spec Ops... He turned around and fought somebody, again, superhuman and was holding his own. Losing, but still competing. He was beating the Predator and the game he was best at... hunting. You can call Dutch whatever you want.. but certainly never simply call him human level. He's beyond that, which is again, the point here.
Especially the part were cap kicked him into a car with enough force to dent it, then kneed him again into the car and dented it again. Bucky shrugged that off like nothing. Also, he got shot on his glasses. Bulletproof or not, that will hurt a lot but he shook it off like nothing too
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The problem with that is, if we go by your and tkitna's criteria, you have to be enhanced in some way relevant to the plot to be considered super human. For example, you two would probably consider Cap or Winter Soldier to be super human right? Now, imagine a completely new character whos considered to be a non super powered individual like Nite Owl, but he can replicate Caps feats. Say he was never enhanced in any way, and achieved it through training. If we go off your criteria, he isn't considered super human because he was never outright stated to have powers. Despite this, he's the exact same as Cap.
Just look at Ozy. The dude caught a bullet. Something neither Cap or WS can replicate. Despite this, he has no powers and achieved super human reflexes through training. Do we consider him super human or just a normal human?
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When someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown but only 4 to reach out and bchslap them upside down on their head
1. Is Spiderman faster than Bucky or Cap?
A. If so, why does it appear Bucky and Cap are exchanging blows faster?
2. Is it not a common theme in movies to slow fight scenes down so the viewing audience can perceive it better?
3. Can superman indeed punch 50 times in a second, if he was able to read every book in the entire world written on medicine in moments. He should be able to right? Well, if the comic book artists never shown him doing so, does that mean he can't?
A. Same thing here, if Ozy can move his arm so fast that he can catch a bullet, while barely looking. Shouldn't he be able to punch faster than what he appeared to? Simple question.
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