A vibranium projectile the size and weight of Cap's shield?
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
Of course not, but a three round burst from an m16 hitting the shield in mid air should still at least make it veer off course. Caps shield doesn't stay in perfect unstoppable linear motion. In fact, the way Cap uses it depends on it's trajectory being altered by collision, so I'm not seeing why something with that much force in such a small area wouldn't affect the shield in any way
Do you have any proof that a 3 round burst would knock a vibranium shield off course or are you just guessing?
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
Why are people comfortable giving DS skills he's never shown in feats (shooting legs, quick drawing, shooting thrown shields) while completely ignoring Cap's feats where he never got hit by bullets while he had his shield.
You provided evidence of Cap aim blocking from close range, not from long distance. You are passing it off as proof that Cap can aim dodge from long range. I agree he can aim block from close range. That's not the argument though as you are thinking.
Cap isn't that fast from a standstill. He has no feats of covering 50m in less than 3 seconds from a standstill. Hell he couldn't catch Bucky or BP right away. DS is going to shoot at either the legs or groin. It will be instinct and common sense to do. You are banking off DS being dumb and still aiming at the shield.
In several scenes you see the cars moving about 10-15mph. I'm not sure if this was done on purpose so that the characters appear faster than what they are or the cars was intended to move that fast.
Anyway, you haven't shown Cap being able to cover 50m in less than 5 second from a standstill. Bucky jumps down and starts running 4 seconds before BP lands. BP is only 30-40 ft away from Bucky when he lands. Thus Bucky has only traveled 30-40ft away in that time. Yet Cap is just as fast as him?
Here's the math.
This is a basic similar triangle problem.
Let d1=length of a handgun = 0.1524m
d2= the distance between the characters =50m
h2 = the distance from Cap's head to his groin = 1m
h1 = the vertical distance the nozzle of the handgun has to move.
Or just go Cap has the magic power of blocking anything with his shield. After all, some guy keeps saying that DS has the magic power of never missing.
You're forgetting to add in a few factors. Line of sight, trajectory of bullet and angle of shield coverage. A properly utilized shield the size of Cap's should effectively be able to cover till his knees given proper angle and profile to DS's line of sight.
He has blocked gunfire at this range (see highway fight in WS) and has even deflected bullets towards his opponents within this range. He has "feats" of blocking and dodging gunfire at that range, and DS has zero "feats" of hitting actively defending targets.
And the one time he faced one, he hit armor at point blank, got flustered, allowed his daughter enough time to step in the way and got himself caught. The "feats" and showings disagree with your powerset-only argument. He is not given time to assess the situation and readjust his stategy here. Until "feats" say otherwise, he fires center mass or aims for the head, which Cap will block.
Of course he couldn't catch up to Bucky and BP, they were running at more or less the same speed he was. This is basic stuff, man. And if you look at the clip instead of making up your own figures (seriously, stop it), you'll know that Bucky landed at (0:48) and doesn't even start running til (0:50) and was looking over his shoulder. He doesn't start accelerating at full speed til (0:52) when he sees Cap and BP landed behind him. By (0:53) he was passing cars easily. So that 4 second line was complete BS.
Heck no they were moving at 15 mph. It was obvious via portrayal that this was a standard freeway and cars don't drive 15mph on a freeway. Granted they may have slowed the cars down (and used camera play to make them seem faster) for obvious safety and storytelling reasons (as real ppl can't run 50-60 mph) but writer's intention clearly portray this as a standard busy freeway. Especially when at (1:00) they were shown to be chased by a police (?) pursuit vehicle and it was barely keeping up (with no implied changes to the constant speed of the vehicles around them). Essentially and obviously, writer's intention.
And that's not the point, WS already had a second head start by (0:52) and he was already at full velocity running-past-cars speed at this time. if you understand basic math, you'd know that if Cap took more than a second (like you say) to accelerate to equal his speed, then the distance discrepancy would have been much greater. Do the math.
You are moving the goalposts. Of course Cap has blocked bullets from that range. The shooter will aim for center of mass remember? But that has no bearing on Cap being able to trace the aim precisely from that distance (knowing the difference between a head shot aim and a groin shot aim is a difference of a few millimeters). Also even if Cap can trace the aim precisely from that distance you still have the problem with him lowering the shield a foot or more IN RESPONSE AND BEFORE DS lowers the aim a few Millimeters and fires.
You are using irrelevant showings.
1. He was surprised and not in top fighting mindset
2. He was in street clothes where his gun was holstered and concealed.
3. He was in hth close range where Batman can respond better.
Yes he will aim at Cap's head at first. I agreed on this. Do you completely read my posts or just parts and ignore other parts? My point is that once Cap's blocks the first shot then DS will aim at an exposed area. This takes only a matter of a second to adjust. Remember DS went shooting one target to the next in less than 0.3 seconds (by moving the gun a few feet instead of a few millimeters here).
Bucky starts running at 0.49 (not 0.50). BP lands at 0.53. WS is only 30-40ft away when BP lands.
That means that Cap (who is similar speed) will cover up to 40feet in the first 4 seconds. Even using your 3 second scenario this still isn't 50m.
You just killed your own argument. Top running speed is irrelevant. It's all about acceleration and the time it takes to cover the first x feet from rest.
I covered line of site. The bullet will travel approximately straight from 50m away with a slight curve (making it easier to hit Cap). In all the movies, Cap's waistline on down was completely exposed when he was on the move. There was a few scenes where he was turtled up but he was completely stationary.
This is all moot anyway as DS will hit what HE SEES. That's his ability.
Actually, that's been the argument from the very start. It is not "moving the goalposts" when you're just repeating the same argument you've been presenting from the very beginning. The argument has always been "feats" (Cap) vs no "feats" (DS).
You are the one implying that DS will immediately bypass Cap's defenses the second he realizes the shield blocks bullets. Of which he has no "feats" proving this.
You got it backwards, you are attempting to distract from your lack of evidence by focusing on a purely conjectural argument. Should I repost my first and second post to prove this?
Facts:
DS telegraphs his shots.
DS has poor economy of movement in several of his showings.
The one time DS faced an opponent who can defend against bullets, he got flustered and hit armor.
Cap has aim blocked opponents
Cap has blocked bullets from a variety of range.
Cap is a master of trajectory.
You claim that it takes a minute change in angle to hit Cap and that DS can change his tactics on the fly within seconds, and that at this distance, Cap would not be able to see where he is aiming.
But Cap has blocked shots from that distance before, are you saying that it was luck or that his opponents were magically drawn to his shield? He knew where the bullets would land and defended against them.
And DS telegraphis his shots, his body moves at an almost exaggerated way when he makes even minute adjustments to aim (see zombir fight). Even at 50m, Cap will notice that DS is adjusting his aim.
DS has one showing where he fought someone capable of defending against gunfire. He failed. Why are you so confident that he would be able to bypass the defenses of an opponent with a far richer history of defending against gunfire?
No one is denying his great aim. But why can't his shots be dodged? Why can't they be blocked?
Wait. What part of your last post to me did you indicate that you agreed to DS shooting head first and hitting the shield? Because I just went thru your old posts and I couldn't find it. Pls quote it because your last post insists that he will shoot at the legs and groin and made no mention of the head/center mass shot.
You're not getting it.....
Firstly, this debate isn't about WS. It is about Cap. And WS was already at full speed before Cap even got started running.
Do the math.
Initial starting point = where Bucky is 40 feet (as you claimed) ahead.
Bucky's velocity = top speed of 55mph at least
Ending distance = 100 feet (as he was slightly behind BP) apart.
Cap's initial speed. = 0 mph
Cap's constant acceleration = X
Solve for X.
And come back here and let me know the results. I promise that it will be very enlightening and will in no way "kill my own argument".
Last edited by Nibedicus on Aug 29th, 2016 at 01:52 PM
Will be gone for a few days after the last post. Need to reprioritze work again and I need to sleep, but should be able to post by Thrusday. Good night.
Just guessing based off real world physics. Do you have proof that the shield would keep a perfect linear motion after taking three 5.56 rounds in mid air? That sounds pretty unlikely. There is no counter force like Cap behind it here after all, and his shield doesn't work like the Juggernaut.
Real world physics hardly apply to a fictional super-metal that can absorb energy.
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
This point is moot anyway. If DS takes the time to shoot the shield out of the air he'll get tackled by Cap. His best bet is to dodge the shield and keep shooting at Cap.
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Aug 29th, 2016 12:20 AM
