Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Unseen allies don't make for a fair fight. Dooku went without a fight against just pirates. Quit using double standards because you're jealous of Maul the Star Wars anomaly.
I'm not disputing that the fight wasn't fair. What I'm saying is that the fight demonstrated an exploitable weakness which has been used against him time and time again. Once again, patience and meditation have utterly embarrassed the dathomirian warrior. And not patience of the like we see from Yoda, but patience from a mere Padawan.
I'm not seeing any logical reasoning as to why Maul hasn't learned from this. Every character has learned from past mistakes, yet writers with Maul just seem to think he can't learn from what he does wrong....which doesn't make any sense at all.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
We saw that Qui meditate right before he died. Get the **** out of here with that nonsense. We have also seen Maul mentally unbalance Kenobi through anger. You ignore these examples and the variable there were unseen allies aiding her.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Oct 12th, 2016 at 01:12 AM
And we see Ahsoka calm herself and meditate right before embarassing Maul here. We see Kanan do the same thing despite being blind. We see TPM Obiwan do just this to slice Maul in half. I'm not quite sure where Quigon went wrong, but it's a winning and recurring strategy nonetheless.
Again, I'm not saying anything about unseen allies as I'm not arguing that the fight was fair or that she even "won." That's how Ahsoka was able to trap Maul, but it wasn't what she used to draw him close enough to be trapped. Go back and read the excerpt in the OP. It tells you precisely what I'm telling you and seems to confirm Maul's biggest achille heel and how even a padawan can get the best of him while using it.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
She had unseen allies making it unfair. You already conceded that point. He was overconfident after he already blinded Kanan and had him dead to rights before she intervened. Maul dropped his guard after Kenobi was disarmed and hanging off a ledge. Qui was better than Kenobi you dolt. He wasn't aware of the unseen allies so how on earth would you expect him to be prepared for a secret trap while in the midst of a duel.
You're ignoring all the details to every single instance and trying to link them together when it doesn't add up.
1) It's not really a conceded point if it isn't something I ever contested. We'd call that a strawman. I never once questioned the fairness in this encounter or the fact that there were unforeseen allies. I will, however, say that it is a lousy justification to explain Maul's shortcomings here. As if someone who can sense people's presence and sense the future is utterly incapable of dealing with unforeseen allies. As if surprise attacks and assassination attempts have never been used in this series. Kanan and Ezra relied upon suck trickery in their attempt to beat Vader, but Vader was ten moves ahead with a force barrier well in place. The problem isn't surprise attacks, unfair fights and whatnot. The problem is Maul. He has a proverbial glass jaw and I wouldn't surprised if we see this yet again in his upcoming bout with Ezra where he is shown having Maul at his mercy.
2) You're missing the point on Kanan (and Obiwan and Ahsoka). This guy is (or was) a Sith Lord. He is supposed to be one of the greatest swordsmen in galactic history. What's he doing losing to bums like Kanan, getting sliced in half by Padawans like Obiwan or getting bamboozled by Padawans like Ahsoka? Imagine STID and imagine Khan repeatedly getting outwitted and even beaten in a fist fight by Scotty in spite of his super human strength and intellect. That's the issue here.
3) Qui was better than Kenobi, but Maul killed Quigon and then lost to Kenobi. Sounds like incompetence. Congrats. You've made my argument for me.
4) To add insult to injury, it turns out that what Obiwan did is the blueprint on making a fool out of Maul, which is why Ahsoka uses it to execute her strategy. You ignore this and with good reason: It literally confirms everything I've said about Maul's glaring weakness.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Well what's ironic is I've heard excuses for Tano storming onto the scene at the end of the season two finale as completely unfair for Vader. When we look at Maul and unseen enemies and a ray shield you act like its so damning. The double standards here are atrocious and you're an idiot.
Let's look at Anakin and Kenobi caught unaware while not in a fight by ray shields and some how say dammit Maul there's no excuse. It's disgusting and you're an idiot for pushing this when I ahea examples of two Jedi caught with their pants down with no impending threat.
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The same can be said for Vader when he fought against a more inexperienced Kanan and Ezra. He didn't bring him them in or defeat them despite the empire backing his efforts. The guy is supposed to be this ruthless enforcer but he managed to be humiliated not only by Kanan and Ezra but later by Hera in a pilots duel.
He had Kanan dead to rights, dummy. He blinded him. Tano intervened yet somehow this detail is magically left out. Somehow what only counts is Maul fell off a ledge. He dropped his guard after skillfully besting Kenobi. Vader has never skillfully gained an advantage over Kenobi but who cares there because you're a Vader mark. I've already explained this away with Anakin and Kenobibeing caught off guard by Ray shields. Again this doesn't count and it's far worse since they weren't in a duel.
Maul wasn't repeatedly outwitted and beaten. The villain doesn't always kill the hero. Vader didn't kill any of the major heroes from the Ot. He lost badly to Luke despite inadequate training and starting his training extremely old.
He got overconfident after he skillfully gained an advantage over Kenobi. That's why he lost. He taunted him. Skill wise he's better than Kenobi something Vader has never been able to prove. Despite Ben Kenobi's deterioration Vader never gained an advantage until Ben allowed him to strike him down.
Maul unbalanced Kenobi himself due to anger so once again you're ignoring unseen enemies catching him in ray shields. Ray shields caught Kenobi and Anakin off guard. Quit with the double standards it makes you look stupid, biased, and petty.
What you've heard from unnamed others is of no concern to me. You're trying to address my comments, right? So address them. Saying "I heard BOB tell people he would personally cut the grass, therefore YOU'RE a jerk for not cutting the grass" is a lousy argument and incidentally . . . idiotic.
Lampshade Hanging (or, more informally, "Lampshading") is the writers' trick of dealing with any element of the story that threatens the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, whether a very implausible plot development, or a particularly blatant use of a trope, by calling attention to it and simply moving on.
With Maul, this is not the case since his bout of stupidity is actually shown as a consistent character trait that is constantly the source of his bungling. It's why one shouldn't cite something like 'Khan's strange decision to stand around for 10 seconds to wait for Spock to regain his footing rather than finish him off' unless it serves the purpose of demonstrating the inconsistency in their opponent's own reasoning.
The same can be said for Spock when he was bested by the weak Spock and Uhura. He didn't kill Spock when he had the chance (such as when he strangely decided to give Spock 10 long seconds to climb onto the hover car they were on and let him regain his footing). He foolishly assumed no one else would be beamed down to detain him and was thus humiliated by Uhura. C'mon man, lets not lowball here.
If we're really going to turn every anthill into a mountain, then I suppose I should also point out that the only reason he blinded Kanan in the first place was due to suddenly attacking him by surprise. Thus, by your own reasoning, him "having Kanan dead to rights" should be dismissed because the fight was unfair and he was caught by surprise.
I'll let you in on a little secret here, since I can see right through you: I'm no more a Vader mark than you are a Maul mark.
If we are afforded such out-of-universe explanations, then that all the more reinforces my explanation of Anakin and Obiwan getting captured. Incidentally, I have an additional out-of-universe explanation: The writers perceive Maul as a good villain, but not up there with the greats (i.e. Vader and Sidious), which is why he keeps screwing up like this.
Sadly, I'm no Vader fanboy and am not automatically inclined to defend his shortcomings. What does this have to do with Maul's glaring weakness?
Kenshin, only you and Kurk are giving quan the time of day, everyone else has been ignoring his moping. He is trolling. If you ignore him, he will leave the SW forum for a few weeks/months.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
. So you admit this isn't bad since the same has occurred to Vader. Concession happily accepted.
Here comes that double standard.
ironic you insult mauls intelligence when Kenobi's own words are, "Wait a minute we are smarter than this," to which Anakin replies, "Apparently not." The characters themselves admit their own stupidity yet you have the unmitigated gall to attack Maul with this blatant double standard. I'm sorry you're a moron. Watch the film. The ignorance I have to deal with to excuse your own excuse making to justify your extreme bias is irritating.
Khan is in the middle of a fight after he crash landed on earth and sprinted throughout the city. Khan still won the fight and he has no control over who transports where. He was alone against an entire crew working together with the ships technology to bring him in. You're also a liar to act like during a fight you're thinking of all the possible scenarios in the midst of the action. If you want to talk about stupidity let's talk about the 30 plus seconds Palpatine gave Yoda to come to after the fl attack. That's beyond stupid and much more time to give an opponent who was temporarily out of it for well over thirty seconds.
So he should have announced his intentions because he's such a fair minded guy ? Do you know anything about Maul or the Sith. Kanan was armed, had precog, and had his hand on his saber. His own damn fault for being lackadaisical with a known dark sider present.
You're a hopelessly stupid individual with no common sense or Star Wars knowledge apparently.
Vader screwed up like this as well. Defeated by Kenobi, gained no advantage against an older Kenobi, temp downed by Kanan and Ezra, out piloted by Hera, gimped off the season finale two episode, etc.
He beat an arrogant and ill prepared Kenobi in ESB. Vader is a failure. He was always someone tragic the more the audience found out about the more you felt bad for this cripple. He's a trainwreck and far worse than Maul in every facet of his history.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Hush, you weak little man. You don't have the courage to debate against me because you're awful at this. What kind of guy who wa to to debate fictional matchups wants to encourage others to not debate. You sound like a woman.
Even if we ignore the whole Maul vs Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan fight and just skip to the final Maul vs Obi-Wan fight, still without Qui-Gon lying there Obi-Wan would have had no way to win.
As for Kanan he clearly had some kind of massive amp, and still was only able to BFR Maul. The website confirms Maul was not defeated.
So yeah sure Obi-Wan has taught those close to him how he defeated Maul in TPM, but that's hardly a massive weakness to exploit every time or some kind of a guaranteed victory given Kenobi himself never properly defeated Maul in TCW
Oct 12th, 2016 12:54 AM
