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The Blasphemous Pope Francis
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Patient_Leech
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Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Murder is when someone is unjustifiably killed. God has never murdered anyone. We are all guilty of sinning in God's eyes. Where there innocent people who were killed when God flooded the world or destroyed Sodam and Gomorrah? Certainly, but only "innocent" according to our own sense of judgment and morality. God has a much higher standard than we do.

....

Why would He create forbidden items and place them there? Because it was a test of their obedience to Him. He wanted to give them a choice of putting their complete faith in Him or taking their destiny completely into their own hands. They chose the latter and that is why there is much pain and suffering in the world today. It's not because God doesn't care. If He truly didn't care about us then He wouldn't have sent us a Savior to offer us a way out of eternal damnation.



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Old Post Mar 13th, 2020 11:20 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Murder is when someone is unjustifiably killed. God has never murdered anyone. We are all guilty of sinning in God's eyes. Where there innocent people who were killed when God flooded the world or destroyed Sodam and Gomorrah? Certainly, but only "innocent" according to our own sense of judgment and morality. God has a much higher standard than we do.


God ordered babies killed tho. That's murder. How can you say abortion is murder, but not that?

Also the Christians get their sense of morality and judgement from what they believe the be the teachings of God.

You realize that if a human being behaved like God such a person would be seen as evil?

quote:
Yes, it is in human nature to sin but that is only because we inherited that sinful nature from Adam and Eve. Eve didn't have a sinful nature at first. She was tricked by the serpent. Adam, otoh, knew full well what he was doing when he bit into that forbidden fruit although he was coaxed by his pretty wife into going along with it.


If Adam didn't need to be tricked then clearly God created him with a sinful nature right? And he apparently created Eve to be gullible as hell. Who takes anything a talking snake says at face value?

quote:
I agree with Hovind's theory that Adam did what he did because he was afraid of what God would do to Eve whom he loved very much. Adam, imo, was basically saying to God that "whatever you do to her you're going to have to do to me also."


If this is true it is clear Adam wouldn't have needed to do anything. If God is willing to condemn every single person that comes into existence after Adam and Eve because of them...he would have surely condemned Adam either way.

quote:
The black plague or any other horrible disease never would've been a thing if Adam hadn't disobeyed God. We'd all be living in a perfect world with no disease and probably no death either (well, except for the "death" of plant "life" of course which isn't really alive in the biblical sense).


How does this not make God sound petty? It reminds me of being in school and the teacher punishing the entire class for something one student did.

quote:
You misunderstand what God intended, Surtur. It wasn't His intention to keep them ignorant. In fact, they were probably the two smartest people to ever live (besides Jesus of course) since they were both programmed straight from the hand of God. The forbidden tree in Eden wasn't the "Tree of Knowledge"... it was the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." The only things they were ignorant about before eating the fruit was good and evil. They should've just kept complete trust in their Creator. The problem is was that Eve never actually saw God create anything with her own eyes, only Adam saw that. So, in effect, it was easier for her to be deceived than Adam which is why Satan went to her instead of Adam.


Why shouldn't they have knowledge of good and evil? Why create such concepts then?

quote:
Why would He create forbidden items and place them there? Because it was a test of their obedience to Him. He wanted to give them a choice of putting their complete faith in Him or taking their destiny completely into their own hands. They chose the latter and that is why there is much pain and suffering in the world today. It's not because God doesn't care. If He truly didn't care about us then He wouldn't have sent us a Savior to offer us a way out of eternal damnation.


Why does an omnipotent all knowing being need to test people? He would have known what would have happened before he even created Adam and Eve, right?

Also why was Satan allowed into the garden?


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Last edited by Surtur on Mar 14th, 2020 at 12:27 PM

Old Post Mar 14th, 2020 12:13 PM
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eThneoLgrRnae
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It's not like God flooded the world specifically to kill babies. Their deaths were just incidental. Let's say God did somehow protect them from being judged along with everyone else; would it then be any better that they die a much slower death by starving to death or dying from thirst?


Yeah, well... that "talking snake" was described as being the most cunning of all creatures in the book of Genesis. And, as I said earlier, it was easy to trick Eve not because she was dumb, but because she never actually saw God create anything with her own eyes. She only had God's word that He was, in fact, God. As you know, it doesn't take much to be a skeptic. Satan planted a seed of doubt in her mind and that was apparently all that was needed.

I've already answered that I believe Adam did what he did because he was scared of what God would do to his wife. He wasn't created with that sinful nature already being in him. He willingly chose to take on that sinful nature when he bit into the apple.


God has not condemned every single person in existence, Surtur. He has offered them an easy way out in His Son, Jesus Christ (who is sometimes referred to as "the second Adam"). It is a free gift of Salvation. All you have to do is accept it. Don't let the catholics fool you into thinking you have to do good works in order to be saved. That is a false gospel.


That is not even close to being the same thing. As Adam is the father of us all, when he willingly chose to take on the sinful nature, we all inherited it from him. Not only that, the Bible says that the entire creation (not just humans) suffers as a result of the fall of man (Adam's disobedience). You see, the good book tells us that God put Adam in charge of tending to His creation and thus, when he made the choice he did, the entire creation suffers as a result. It was a chain reaction of sorts.


Those concepts would've still existed to God, Himself, that's why. It wasn't necessary for A & E to know about good and evil in order to live a fulfilling life.


Yes, He absolutely knew what would happen before it happened. As you say, He is omniscient. Imo, I think the problem is how we, as humans, view time vs how God does. You see, to Him, time is not linear as it is to us. He is not trapped in time as we are... He created it and thus is the master of it.


Not sure. It may've been because, as I said earlier, it was part of the test of A & E. It's also possible he may not have been officially designated as a "bad guy" yet... still not quite sure whether he was still 'Lucifer' at that point or if he had become 'Satan' yet.


No doubt you'll probably reply with something like "But God is omniscient! He should've known Lucifer would turn bad at some point."
To which I would again come back to how we view and experience time vs how God does.


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Last edited by eThneoLgrRnae on Mar 20th, 2020 at 04:22 PM

Old Post Mar 20th, 2020 04:17 PM
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