They aren't communists lol. It's a post scarcity society. Sisko's dad owns a restaurant.
Starfleet officers must use some kind of currency to buy stuff from Quark too.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Currency obviously has to be used to deal with other species. But humans themselves (and presumably the federation) dont trade in money between themselves. (But thats why DS9 was so great. They accepted Earth and humanity is near perfect, but they are not on Earth, and only very few of them are human).
That said calling them communists might be simplifying it a little methinks. Clearly if you live on the Enterprise you are living a more luxurious life than if you live on a standard Starship. And only the best get to be on the Enterprise.
Yes; that episode works so well BECAUSE of what had been previously established in the lore. Sisko wouldn't have felt the guilt he did if he didn't consider Starfleet and the Federation at large to be far more honourable than he was being at that point in time.
To be fair, Federation credits do exist. What they're used for is the big question, as they have no value to the likes of the Ferengi.
"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." - Captain Picard
"A lot has changed in three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." - Captain Picard
Premiere of the new series is out today. I'm about to begin the episode.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
So my thoughts: I enjoyed it. Has me a lot more intrigued than the first episode of Discovery did(though that series did improve). So far nothing cringeworthy or anything. Looking forward to more episodes
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
As far as the previous argument goes, the Federation itself isn't communist. Earth might be (but I would consider it to be at least somewhat socialist, not to mention democratic), but individual Federation worlds have far too much autonomy.
Also, while money itself is largely gone by the 24th century, compensation still exists. How else would vineyards, farms and dilithium mines function?
holy damn shit.. what a great premiere episode. watching this show i was reminded how much i miss star trek especially the next generation... seeing patrick back as picard bings such joy into my life.
dahj and[SPOILER - highlight to read]: her twin soji are data's daughters
this show looks like it'll have a ton of action which is something im looking forward to seeing...
Watched it. It has some flaws, but it has enough potential to keep me interested in watching it next week. I feel like as the episodes pass though, it's going to fall more and more on Stewart to carry it, and that's not a good thing.
And I feel like, even with all the promotional material we've seen, [SPOILER - highlight to read]: the borg are going to play a bigger role than i had expected. That feels like a mistake for me.
Writing the borg well is hard for even a good writer. There's a reason why they have some of the best episodes of TNG: Because when they're done well, they're amazing.
Also, I really hope they don't dilute them like Voyager did.
I feel you there, the Borg were the galactic-level threat that got most of the Alpha Quandrant to put aside current and old feuds. Then they got the paper-tiger-esque treatment to move Voyagers plot along
The values were formed after tribalism had led to cataclysmic wars on Earth and the Vulcans intervened due to a warp signature, ushering in an age of enlightenment.. The whole premise of the federation is an intergalactic EU type set up to keep the peace after space wars. They are the Socialist UN of the stars! And beautiful for it. No intervention and the prime directive are as anti colonialism and capitalism as it gets.
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Last edited by Putinbot1 on Jan 26th, 2020 at 11:54 AM
They break the prime directive all the time though.
And honestly, non interventionism is a TERRIBLE idea, because it puts borders ahead of humanitarian concerns. The old "Nazi's" test holds true that strictly speaking, if every country adhered to non interventionist philosophy, then no one could come to the aid of Jewish victims in Germany.
The Federation takes this to the next level by demanding entire underdeveloped races be wiped out, rather then rushing to their aid.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
I rewatched the episode, and it allowed me to put some of my feelings in to better context.
Basically, the best scene in the episode is also the worst. When Picard talks about how they had a moral obligation to help the Romulans evacuate, he was right, but you know what else? The Federation at large would have ****ing thought so too. No terrorist attack would have stopped them helping millions of people not die. And the mention of the Romulans being their oldest enemy. REALLY? The same Romulans that helped the Federation and the Klingons hate**** the Dominion right back in to the Gamma Quadrant at the cost of thousands if not millions of Romulan lives? The same Romulans that owe the Enterprise for stopping a Reman coup? THOSE Romulans?
People can say that things change. And they do, but I don't believe that in less than two decades, the Federation would turn in to a bunch of fearful, xenophobic assholes.
The more I watched, the more I felt like, yet again, the people writing this just don't "get" Star Trek. And this isn't like comics where I have my own headcanon. Gene Roddenberry hammered it in to everyone's ****ing heads that Humanity was supposed to be largely above all that petty shit, and that they had found allies in the galaxy with largely similar attitudes. Even when DS9 came out and we saw the darker, grimmer side of life in the 24th century, there were still tons of examples of Sisko, or Bashir, or whoever else saying "No, we're better than this. We're not how we used to be."
Even Voyager, which I really don't consider to be that great, at least tried to follow the concept of Federation ships being fundamentally decent, always willing to lend a hand even to their own detriment. iirc there are even early episodes of Voyager where people are literally looking at Janeway and saying "nobody is that nice without wanting something in return".
And yes, while Star Trek had plenty of political allegory, it was almost always from the position of the Federation going "look at these chuckle****s, still fighting over things like land and religion. How's about we help them see that there's more to the universe than those petty squabbles?".
Anyway, rant largely over. To summarise:
The show plays heavy on nostalgia. Stewart is excellent. I was glad to see that even though some of the aesthetics weren't to my taste, they did keep some of the things that were familiar without rooting it too hard in the past. It just feels like the writers aren't as familiar with Star Trek as I was hoping they would be. And that's even taking in to account the Picard scene where he goes to his storage unit. Daj being Data's daughter is dumb, fanfic-esque nonsense.
I still think I'm going to enjoy it more than Discovery, and I want to like it. So I'll keep watching.
This the same daughter who lived and died in a single episode?
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
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Jan 16th, 2020 09:51 PM
