This still doesn't mean Goku's past was retconned. He is still bulletproof to a point where he doesn't notice bullets at his lowest portrayal. The entire spiel about Dragon Ball not counting is meaningless once you admit that the first enemy of Z is wildly stronger than Dragon Ball Goku with the retcon in effect. I'm not even sure how you thought this was an issue anyway? Like it was a sticking point?
How do you navigate around full capacity and what you're arguing exactly? You want Goku to be threatened by Punisher while also operating at full power so therefore CIS makes him weaker. It doesn't work. If he's at full power then he's not supressing his powers to infinitesimal levels. And Goku's CIS is also correlated directly to PIS. Goku has zero issues knocking people out. What happens due to PIS is Goku has people beaten but he wants to spare them for another day so they can turn good. There is no plot in the forums. There is no another day. He beat Frieza to a point of no return and spared him because he wanted him to understand. That's not saying he couldn't have just KO'ed him but it had the same effect to how much power he lost. He was no threat and Goku left because of the story. Goku is not reforming bad guys on the forum and he's not running away from battles. So he's only left with winning which he is fully capable and willing to do.
What you're arguing is how these things would happen "maybe" in a comic setting. You're basically presenting it as if Goku can beat no one ever and will never team up with anyone because it's not in his nature to be cheap and overwhelming. These "loopholes" you're presenting are prevalent for almost every character Goku can fight per your logic. They also exist for every other character too. You basically want Goku to just scale his power to the person he's fighting and this is considered a "win" in your books. You somehow have Constantine, Superman, and Flash instantly pulling out massive attacks instantly while Goku actively supresses his powers. Even though all these people job to far more than Goku does in far more fights and it's ingrained in their brains as CIS as well. If Goku is taking it easy against Superman, then Superman is not using max speed and power immediately. It cuts both ways.
The CIS happens after the fight or if Goku meets some sort of equal in a ring out scenario. He doesn't lose all capacity for knocking someone out just because he spares the big bad guy when he has him beat because of history with them.
But yes, Goku has better odds of losing than Vegeta on the forums because of you doubling down on plot reasons. That still doesn't impact the power levels or bring down the whole verse. Under your logic with all stars aligning you could simultaneously argue Super Goku loses to Punisher while Punisher immediately dies to King Piccolo and this would somehow be a win in your mind. Goku sucks when you control the plot under the guise of CIS, go figure. Maybe there's a banana peel on the floor too?
Being a pussy about it after all these pages STILL doesn't account for the theme of Raditz though. Goku doesn't lose anymore for lack of might but he loses because he doesn't try! Haha, we did it Surtur, DB sucks!
I'll take a break in honor of soneone actually putting effort into a damned good response.
And because I'm too tired and lazy to come up with a good response just now.
Oh, what the heck, one comment:
So help make that line between CIS and PIS a little bit more clear.
Creel, he has a perfectly good granite object, a steel object, and goes for the tin. Is that PIS, or CIS?
And for Goku specifically, if we can't separate his long habit drawing out a fight via self-suppression or under estimating his opponent from PIS, then how does CIS have any meaning here? What CAN we use against Goku and say "Yeah, this is totally CIS".
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
A good Quora post on a common misconception. One I've personally heard argued by someone on this very site.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Goku even admits he wasn't fighting at full strength.
Is this really "Plot Induced Stupidity?" How did Goku losing even serve the plot? It literally would have made no difference if he won or lost against Toppo, for the overreaching plot.
It's a character trait. Goku is his own worst enemy.
I'd bet real money he's even going to blow it against Moro, and need help to beat him.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
In character, of course. Thor would heavily pull his strikes against a mortal, the same way he always has against Hulk.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Goku has held back against some opponents, sure... But it's not like he goes around willingly throwing fights and whatnot. He ultimately still wants to win.
So I suppose you could argue that Goku might prolong a forum battle in certain situations in order to test his abilities, but he still wouldn't intentionally allow himself to lose a battle(that's just not how Saiyans are wired... Especially in a forum setting.)
It would also depend on the stipulations of the thread in question. If a match specified "SSG Goku vs. comic character 'x'", for example, we would obviously assume that Goku would be using the full breadth of his SSG-power the entire time -- similarly to what we do when certain versions of a comic character(like "WBH" or "pre-crisis" Superman) are specified. We wouldn't assume that Goku would randomly drop below that level mid-fight for the lulz. So if the comic character in question was unable to match the levels of SSG Goku, then they simply couldn't win.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Goku would want them to fight at their peak. If their peak still wasn't good enough, he'd drop them, then say something like: "Oh well... Maybe next time we fight you'll be even stronger, and that's super exciting!"
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__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
In round 1, Goku would actually get beaten - because cdtm stacked it in Batman's favour. Carver as usual brings up stupid examples, showing he hasn't read the rules. Superman knows Grundy, and would know the Abomination is super strong etc.
In Round 1 of cdtm, Batman knows everything there is to know about Saiyans and Goku, and can prep. Goku is out eating ice-cream, or sleeping, or pooping, or whatever. Hell, Bats could attack when Goku has deliberately lowered his power levels when fighting someone else. All of you fanboys with your kneejerk reactions that 'OMGZZZ GOKU WOULD TURN HIM INTO RED MIST' completely missed the trap that cdtm set.
You mean the cherry-picked, non-versus scenario that Goku wouldn't even know he is part of? Lol, yeah, obviously Bruce could win that one.
He'd honestly beat damn near anyone in that scenario: can prep endlessly, and can attack whenever he chooses to make sure the other guy doesn't even know he's coming.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Yeah - it was so heavily stacked in Batman's favour it's ridiculous. It essentially becomes 'Goku vs the entirety of DC's resources, plus the BatPrep'.
And people still tried to argue Goku winning.
If you guys are genuinely tired of cdtm, then...stop arguing against him, lol. Some of you (not Galan, with his quoted post obv, and not Bran) are so tied up with this notion that Goku HAS to win, that you lot can't accept there are scenarios specifically handpicked where he would crash and burn.
H/P Doomsday does extremely well against energy attacks, but he's never faced an energy projectionist quite like Broly(ie. a guy who can casually spam planet-busters if he chooses.) And if we [logically] assume that Broly's power is somewhere between Perfect Cell and SPC, then his all-out beams would be in the realm of solar system busting. Not exactly sure what those kind of attacks would do to DD -- maybe he'd soak them; maybe they'd leave a mark. /shrug
Then there's also Broly's physicals to consider -- effortlessly ragdolling Goku+Gohan+Vegeta+Trunks+Piccolo(all from the Cell Games era) is no small feat.
I'm undecided. If I *had* to pick, I'd probably go with DD... Mainly because of the potential for him to adapt beyond Broly's specific ki signature.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 2nd, 2020 at 01:16 PM
Well,. he did try and blow up Namek by targeting the core.
Seemed to blow up Vegeta easily enough.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
They reply to my posts, yet never seem to know the stipulations.
How does that even work? Do they stop at Goku vs... and just blank out into "Goku wins?"
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
KMC Community Forums
Oct 1st, 2020 06:55 PM
Touche.
