To a point, like Dune it has a lot of characters, the characterisation and the plot have some give and take. The Emperor... is the Emperor, I won't spoil it.
I read the original.trilogy and part of the add ons.
Was [SPOILER - highlight to read]: disappointed by the execution of The Second Foundation post Mule. As a safeguard against such aberration, ok fine. But then they started manipulating everyone and everything, and it made the Seldon Plan start to look like a dismal failure on the math end if a secret group of psychics can't let things be without meddling.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
One point I never quite understood; [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Was the man Hari was dealing with, who was identified as the real power behind the Emperor, meant as some form of "shadow government" leader?
E.g. illuminati? Or is there a real life equivalent in the historical Rome the series is based on, who actually called the shots while the Emperor looked pretty? Or what?
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Right, but The Mule is a super powered mutant. I'm talking the everyday nudging of people they kept doing behind the scenes, like that head of state to avert a war, or the coalition of investigators starting with one of the protagonists daughters from the literal cradle.
When you're at the point you reprogram infants, you're past preparations for the unknown, and well into forcing society to shape as you see fit. It calls into question whether Psychohistory ever worked, because a group of Charles Xaviers had been nudging Salvor Hardin, Hober Mallow, Arcadia (Again, reprogrammed as an infant, and who knows what other events.
That, and the Seldon plan never accounted for the Second Foundation itself becoming a threat. Who could stop them if they had? Basically in their way the Second Foundation would become even more dangerous than The Mule, due to their secrecy and absolute ability to influence people.
An "Illuminati" if you will.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
But at the end of the day, basically my real gripe is the demystify of Psychohistory.
The fact is, I liked that the plan just worked. A magic equation, why not? The fun came from seeing how things keep trucking along as planned.
The Mule I didn't mind so much because it added extra flavor. It was the first time the plan failed, the first time the Foundation was defeated.
Then came the retcons, and the miraculous Psychohistory is reveled that it never worked as intended. Harbor Seldin wasn't a genius who Hari somehow predicted would pop up to keep events on course, he was just a man the psychics nudged in the right direction.
Why even have a plan at all, if psychics could fix everything.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
No, but their very existence and activity raises the question of how much of Hari's plan is his vision, and how much is the Second Foundation stealth reprogramming.
Think of it like this, if society is a complex AI, and the programmer predicts its behavior patterns over a five year span, lets it loose in the wild, and continually reprograms it if it strays too far from the prediction, then the prediction was inaccurate.
The Psychohistory element of Foundations was initially presented as a kind of fortune telling. The Mule pops in with "magic", something Hari could not have considered in his plan, to ruin the plan. The Second Foundation is revealed as an emergency measure against the unexpected.
If that was as far as it went, then fine. But they are very much active in shaping the plan. Yes, they have a code, but is the element of a group of psychics really necessary? Does a "benevolent guiding hand" need to exist at all?
If the answer is "yes", then why bother with Psychohistory as a plot element? Strictly speaking, the psychics could force the plan into being, but choose not to. So why don't they? What stops them from doing so?
And if The Second Foundation did not exist, could Psychohistory stand without them, assuming no further aberration like The Mule interfered? If it was only society as it was presented in the first Foundations novel, based off the Roman Empire, could it have worked?
Psychics playing "guiding hand" muddied the waters, at least from my vantage point.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Btw, I just read a Substack where they claim The Mule was never meant to beat The Foundation.
Honestly I'm glad he did, the string of wins laid a perfect foundation for it to have real impact. It certainly would have grown stale if it was unbeatable all the time.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Also been digging in to the Roman inspirations Asimov drew from.
Of interest of who The Mule is based on, and who or what The Second is supposed to represent.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
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Jul 12th, 2023 11:19 PM
