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U.S Healthcare
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Blakemore
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Unless it's national insurance


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post Apr 26th, 2021 10:50 PM
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ilikecomics
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blakemore
Unless it's national insurance


This was my point @ backfire.

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 06:58 PM
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Blakemore
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So if you fund health care through taxes it's okay? I mean most European countries do it.


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 07:31 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blakemore
So if you fund health care through taxes it's okay? I mean most European countries do it.


Oh no, I took what you said the wrong way.

I think taxation is theft, committed by a violent entity ( I know you disagree here).

Which is why I prefer the market as a replacement to that, as the market is a matrix of mutually consented upon trades.

If the state didn't have monopoly on healthcare, licensing, and other regulations surrounding it, health insurance would act as any other service. Which is why I compared health and auto insurance earlier, but apparently my point that using the state's violence to enforce positive rights was missed.

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 07:43 PM
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Blakemore
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Think of it like a safety net. erm


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 08:17 PM
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truejedi
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So if someone can't pay the arbitrary fee charged them by a hospital, they can just die, right?

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 08:26 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by truejedi
So if someone can't pay the arbitrary fee charged them by a hospital, they can just die, right?


Why would the fee be arbitrary ?

It should be proportionate to services rendered.

In a free market there would also be charities to support the poor. The reason there is less charity now is because half our income is taken by the state.

I don't think people should die, I just don't think an institution of violence should pay for it through stealing.

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 08:31 PM
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Blakemore
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The state doesn't steal, you moron


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 08:52 PM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ilikecomics
Why would the fee be arbitrary ?

It should be proportionate to services rendered.

In a free market there would also be charities to support the poor. The reason there is less charity now is because half our income is taken by the state.

I don't think people should die, I just don't think an institution of violence should pay for it through stealing.
What a joke.


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Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 10:55 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tzeentch
What a joke.


Do you think philanthropy doesn't exist ?

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 11:25 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blakemore
The state doesn't steal, you moron


Calling me a name doesn't make it untrue

Old Post Apr 27th, 2021 11:26 PM
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truejedi
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We shouldn't ask pay for the poor, just some charitable people who like to, but we're stuck with a for profit model because the "best and brightest" only want to profit? So why would they be charitable? The entire position sounds incredibly selfish, tbh.

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 03:45 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by truejedi
We shouldn't ask pay for the poor, just some charitable people who like to, but we're stuck with a for profit model because the "best and brightest" only want to profit? So why would they be charitable? The entire position sounds incredibly selfish, tbh.



For profit has become a dirty word.
However profit = value provided to consumers.
A doctor provides a service, just like: a lawyer, an engineer, a mechanic etc.
You want all service and goods providers to be following a profit motive, the only alternative is bureaucracy, which is wickedly inefficient, which could mean deadly in the health industry.

Not sure why that sounds selfish.

As far as charity goes I'm using that as a blanket term for standard mutually consented upon wealth exchange and volunteer stuff like soup kitchens, but also NGOs that would seek to help the poor.

You'd be crazy if you think people with medical training, whether licensed by the state or not, wouldn't want to help the poor.

Not to mention, without the state you wouldn't have things like food protectionism i.e. corn syrup, or propaganda like the american classic breakfast of bacon and eggs, etc.
All of these distortions contributing to the obesity epidemic in america, which puts an enormous strain on the healthcare system.

Put another way, the existence of the state incentivizes bad behavior, including obesity, then steals via taxation to redistribute wealth from people who make healthy choices to people who don't.

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 04:09 AM
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Adam_PoE
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The real issue with health care is not affordability, it is access. The pandemic demonstrated this perfectly. Even if we had free or affordable health care, we do not have enough health care workers or facilities to scale for every American resident. The right to free or affordable care is useless if there are not enough doctors or hospitals to treat you. That is why Medicare for All as a policy was dead on arrival. Without a cost barrier, the current system would become overwhelmed.


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Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 05:00 AM
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Blakemore
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ilikecomics
Calling me a name doesn't make it untrue
it's not theft, it's insurance and you are a moron!


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 05:33 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blakemore
it's not theft, it's insurance and you are a moron!




tax·a·tion
/takˈsāSH(əwinkn/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the levying of tax.
"the progressive nature of taxation"
money paid as tax.
"direct taxation was low"

le·vy
/ˈlevē/
See definitions in:
All
Politics
Law
Military History
verb
gerund or present participle: levying
1.
impose (a tax, fee, or fine).
"a new tax could be levied on industry to pay for cleaning up contaminated land"
Similar:
impose
charge
exact
demand
raise
collect
gather
tax
mulct
2.
ARCHAIC
enlist (someone) for military service.
"he sought to levy one man from each parish for service"
Similar:
conscript
call up
enlist

im·pose
/imˈpōz/
Learn to pronounce
verb
1.
force (something unwelcome or unfamiliar) to be accepted or put in place.
"the decision was theirs and was not imposed on them by others"
Similar:
foist
force
thrust
inflict
obtrude
press
urge
saddle someone with
land someone with
lumber someone with
2.
take advantage of someone by demanding their attention or commitment.
"she realized that she had imposed on Miss Hatherby's kindness"


Here's the definition of taxation, which has the word levy in it's definition.
Levy means to impose.
Impose means to force something unwelcome to be welcomed.
Force implies violence, and the state is a monopoly on violence.
Thus the state uses force to make us pay taxes, and we pay them because we go to prison if we don't.

I understand you're on benefits from the state and don't pay taxes. This means you're the poor, who the taxed money gets redistributed to. This is why you defend taxation, because you benefit from it.

Hope that helps, cheers.

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 04:16 PM
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Blakemore
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Well then, I get tax money hahaha


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 04:23 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The real issue with health care is not affordability, it is access. The pandemic demonstrated this perfectly. Even if we had free or affordable health care, we do not have enough health care workers or facilities to scale for every American resident. The right to free or affordable care is useless if there are not enough doctors or hospitals to treat you. That is why Medicare for All as a policy was dead on arrival. Without a cost barrier, the current system would become overwhelmed.


I'm pro free market and pro private hospitals for this reason.

If hospitals were privitized there would be more of them, and they'd be better stocked and staffed.

Not to mention there's other avenues to travel down besides hospitals for good health outcomes.
There's personal trainers, nutritionalists, lifestyle coaches etc.
Most of america's problem is being fat.

Another problem is that alot of pain is psychosomatic but call it shut like fibromyalgia. To fix this would take a psychotherapist, not a medical doctor.

Unfortunately we live in a world where self ownership isn't emphasized, personal responsibility for one's health is ignored and everything, including obesity, becomes medicalized.
So far people get things like gastric bypass, instead of making better choices, because it ends up being cheaper for the state. This is despite not really knowing if the surgery is 100 percent safe.

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 04:24 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blakemore
Well then, I get tax money hahaha


Yes, you are the receiver of expropriated (stolen) capital from people who earned it.

Reminds me of this upton sinclair quote:

'It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.'

That's why you won't acknowledge that taxation is theft and would rather hurl epithets.

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 04:27 PM
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Blakemore
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It's called insurance


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post Apr 28th, 2021 04:29 PM
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