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Noam Chomsky: "Trump is right on Ukraine/Russia"
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Old Man Whirly!
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Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure about the UK, but here when you bring up common sense things like caring for the environment because we all need clean air, water and food, a proper universal Healthcare system, because a healthy county is better than a sick country and proper education, because a higher educated country is better than a low, the Right stars dropping the dirty S word "socialism" and it all goes to shit. Or the new one "Socialism Plus".



"Trump Claims Biden Will Try To Impose 'Socialism Plus' If Elected"

The Tories are trying to make it so Rob. Fortunately the young aren't going for it.

Old Post May 3rd, 2022 06:39 PM
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cdtm
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Originally posted by Blakemore
I think healthcare, education and environmental research are good things to invest in. The real question is, should they be privatised or nationalised? I think nationalised. A democratic system that understands these things as fundamental rights is better than just letting people run riot, so to speak.



You realize corruption is corruption right?

If you hate Elon Musk, he'll control your privatized health care. If you hate Trump, he'll control your nationalized health care.


The people you do like won't always be in power.


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Old Post May 3rd, 2022 08:09 PM
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Robtard
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Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
The Tories are trying to make it so Rob. Fortunately the young aren't going for it.


They're like two sides of the same shit coin.


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Old Post May 3rd, 2022 08:15 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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Originally posted by Robtard
They're like two sides of the same shit coin.
They are indeed.

Old Post May 3rd, 2022 08:25 PM
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Darth Thor
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Tories are better IMO. Because we have free healthcare and investment in renewable energy even under them.

Plus they gave a hell of a lot more help to working people during Covid (mostly 2020, and a bit in 2021 but not currently).

Old Post May 3rd, 2022 11:06 PM
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In the UK, we don't call it "socialism" we call it "National Insurance."

Giving people the right to live so they can later contribute themselves.


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post May 3rd, 2022 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by Blakemore
In the UK, we don't call it "socialism" we call it "National Insurance."

Giving people the right to live so they can later contribute themselves.



Right, handouts.

We do that so people could not get jobs because they don't feel like it.


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What CDTM believes;

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Old Post May 3rd, 2022 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
i question that, a socialist libertarian, isn't the same as a socialist.

I question that you could elaborate on that statement in a manner which would hold up to scrutiny.


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Old Post May 3rd, 2022 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by cdtm
Right, handouts.

We do that so people could not get jobs because they don't feel like it.
The right to live.


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Last Edited by Blakemore on Jan 1st, 2000, at 00:00 AM

Old Post May 3rd, 2022 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Thor
Most socialists nowadays aren't out to completely eradicate Capitalism. They usually argue for a Scandinavian model. Free Healthcare, Education, decent benefits where needed. Invest in the environment as well.

But they still allow people to run business, invest and make money. Although they might believe in more progressives taxes for higher earners.

What you're saying is that the label of socialist is being coopted by people that aren't actually socialists. The Scandinavians are capitalists. If more capitalism is the objective of socialism now, then the word doesn't mean much of anything anyways.


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Old Post May 4th, 2022 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by NewGuy01
I question that you could elaborate on that statement in a manner which would hold up to scrutiny.
Libertarian Socialism isn't inclusive or collective. It's about people who can choose to help others, it's more akin to classical right-wing (fantasy) trickle-down economics. It provides no secure safety nets and relies on people being altruistic when they have the means to support others. It's hogwash.

Old Post May 4th, 2022 08:02 AM
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Darth Thor
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Originally posted by NewGuy01
What you're saying is that the label of socialist is being coopted by people that aren't actually socialists. The Scandinavians are capitalists. If more capitalism is the objective of socialism now, then the word doesn't mean much of anything anyways.



Well they call themselves Social Democrats. But the Right wont let that label stick. They insist on calling them Socialists and Communists in order to scaremonger people into not voting them.

Old Post May 4th, 2022 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by cdtm
Right, handouts.

We do that so people could not get jobs because they don't feel like it.



Nah we do that so people arent homeless and starving to death as if we are a third world nation.

We also do that to give their children equal opportunities. Do you not believe in equal opportunities ?

Old Post May 4th, 2022 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah we do that so people arent homeless and starving to death as if we are a third world nation.

We also do that to give their children equal opportunities. Do you not believe in equal opportunities ?


I do!

I'm fine with the intent, it's the abusers I take issue with. A money for a huckster is less money for the intended purpose.


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What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post May 4th, 2022 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah we do that so people arent homeless and starving to death as if we are a third world nation.

We also do that to give their children equal opportunities. Do you not believe in equal opportunities ?
Bingo, we do it because it's simply the right thing to do.

Old Post May 4th, 2022 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Libertarian Socialism isn't inclusive or collective. It's about people who can choose to help others, it's more akin to classical right-wing (fantasy) trickle-down economics. It provides no secure safety nets and relies on people being altruistic when they have the means to support others. It's hogwash.

That's still awfully vague. Not inclusive of whom, or what? Who chooses to provide for whom? Your comparison to trickle down economics is particularly lost on me; what is the similarity between an ideology of subsidizing the capitalist class, and an ideology that rejects the capitalist class' right to exist?

With regard to safety nets, I'm aware that things can get messy when discussing hypothetical forms of society, but for Chomsky's part, I haven't heard of him prescribing anything for the U.S. welfare state other than its expansion? It's not like I'm an expert on the guy's politics though, maybe you can enlighten me.


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Old Post May 5th, 2022 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's still awfully vague. Not inclusive of whom, or what? Who chooses to provide for whom? Your comparison to trickle down economics is particularly lost on me; what is the similarity between an ideology of subsidizing the capitalist class, and an ideology that rejects the capitalist class' right to exist?

With regard to safety nets, I'm aware that things can get messy when discussing hypothetical forms of society, but for Chomsky's part, I haven't heard of him prescribing anything for the U.S. welfare state other than its expansion? It's not like I'm an expert on the guy's politics though, maybe you can enlighten me.
im going to disagree about the vagueness of my response. I think I defined it adequately. You may not like my answer, perhaps you can explain why you think my comparisons are vague.

Old Post May 5th, 2022 06:38 AM
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