Registered: Dec 2018
Location: The Scarlet Mansion
The feeling I got from this arc so far is that Vader and Palpatine are on the same league in terms of power.
Palpatine is still more powerful than Vader, but Vader still can hold his own against him for a while. As seen in this issue that Vader is doing a large area TK while blocks Palpatine's lightning. And after that fight, Vader seems has no apparent injuries.
Yeah, Palpatine is still stronger. He did state that Vader is stronger now, but he is still his master. And in the end of this issue, it states that Vader can't defeat Palpatine alone, so he needs the help of the droid plague
Yeah, Palpatine is able to control the force wave due to he is stronger than Vader(and other force sensitives). So he neither suffered agony or was out of control of his power https://ibb.co/nQZndfm https://ibb.co/dLQ8tf0
I disagree. I don't feel this showing is necessarily worse. After all, in the last time, Vader seems just blocking Palpatine's lightning takes a toll in him. And Vader is completely helpless when gets TKed by Palpatine while he is doing a TK himself.
But in here, Vader is capable of blocking Palpatine's lightning while Tks a large area. Not saying this fight is necessarily better than the last one, just feel it's not necessarily a worse showing
Last edited by qwertyuiop1998 on Nov 15th, 2023 at 12:56 PM
How? Vader blocked ROTJ Sidious lightning with one hand, while simultaneously ragdolling death troopers. Mace struggled with both hands, against a much weaker version of Sidious that wasn’t even using his full power.
Registered: Dec 2018
Location: The Scarlet Mansion
I was thinking a broader definition of "stronger". I.E, he has advantage over Vader in a fight(whether it's derived from raw power or knowledge or mastery of his power)
Nah, Vader did far better this time. Last time in Darth Vader #5 the lightning broke through his defenses to his arms and body. He then gets distracted by the guards and Mas Amedda, and subsequently ragdolled by Palpatine. However this time, despite initially having his defenses broken and blasted against the wall, he is able to recover and directly overpower the lightning by moving it away from his arms and to his saber. Palpatine is unable to break through his defenses again, and unable to ragdoll him or incapacitate him in any way. Palpatine even attempted to distract him with a third party again, but to no avail. Instead of getting distracted and ragdolled like he did before, Vader was able to deal with the 3rd party and also defend himself against Palpatine no problem. Vader did much better this time.
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Nov 15th, 2023 at 02:30 PM
ROTS Sidious being weaker than ROTJ Sidious is factually sound (though I'm not sure about how much weaker).
But subjective part comes in because Mace disarmed Sheev in Sabers and "seemingly" had an opportunity to kill him. Whether Mace could have actually killed him or not is a debate that's gone on for decades. Whilst everyone agrees here Vader could not have killed Sidious on his own (eve though he did ).
Well I’m not talking about mace beating Palps in sabers, that’s not really relevant if you compare to Vader’s fight because they didn’t even duel. I’m comparing how they did blocking the lightning, and Vader did much better there. He was able to block with one hand while also dealing with the death troopers. Mace struggled with both hands. And it’s confirmed that Palps was holding back and feigning weakness during that part.
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Nov 15th, 2023 at 05:26 PM
Fair enough. Although the feigning weakness could be pretending he couldn't carry on firing, rather than firing with less power (hope that made sense).
ROTS Sidious's lightning also blew Yoda's saber out of his hands (and Yoda had a two handed grip). So this is definitely a notable feat for Vader considering ROTJ Sidious > ROTS Sidious.
But like others have said, Sidious is still more powerful than Vader. They might be in the same ballpark, but Vader isn't beating Sidious solo.
I've just read the whole issue and not just he panels posted here or on comicvine and tbh thinking that Vader and Palpatine are relative after this issue is reaching at extreme levels, to use an euphemism.
First of all, Palpatine isn't in the slightest worried about Vader, the comic vine thread posted the pic of Sid ordering Vader's ship to be destroyed, which is the only panel where he looks concerned, but tbh considering what happened before and after that panel I think it's more likely Palpy was more worried about Vader's ship carrying the droid scourge and heading to the centre of Coruscant, rather than Vader himself being there.
Anyway for the rest of the issue Vader did too little to assume they're in the same tier. He managed to block Sid's lighting one time, a feat master Tiplar also managed to achieve when she fought Dooku in SoD. Vader was then pushed against a wall, but then he is seen standing up again and blocking the lightning... it's not clear if Palp went easy on him, allowed him to get up (like he did after force pushing Maul and Savage against a wall) and then attacked him again, or if Vader stood up on his own, but tbh that's all Vader managed to do: blocking lightning and being on the defensive, which is something weak characters managed to do in canon more than once. What's worse is that Sid did all that while being extremely casual. We also have Sid stating he will always be stronger than vader and even the droid saying Vader is weaker so...
If Vader is a relative to Sidious after this fight then Master Tiplar is a relative to Dooku, the Grand Inquisitor is a relative to Vader, or literally any Jedi Vader fought is relative to him.
The only thing we can assume for sure is that Vader has become a bit stronger than before due to gaining better control over his hate, that's it
Nov 14th, 2023 05:51 PM
).
