thanks. she is? kwel! what kind of anime do you two like? i'm such a freak abut dbz, and i love watching rurouni kenshin. my dbz character is future trunks as you can tell by my avatar. ^.~
to the previous guy's response, i guess the nazgul really hate fire? i dunno why they got whipped. maybe they aren't as strong as we think.
A Dunadan, not a Numenorean! If men had the power of the Numenoreans in LOTR it would be a short war!
"Sauron, we want you to surrender now!"
"Oh, ok then..."
The Nazgul have always had this serious problem interacting with the real world, but I always gathered that the Witch-King was happy with the wound he had given Frodo which would slowly bring him into their world.
The Nazgul were not actually BESTED, as such, until the Ford, which in the books is because Glorfindel was laying into them.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Well, I've finally found a thread about the Nazgul! I was about to start one... But anyway, I was wandering if anyone knew the Nazguls' actual names? I've been wondering, but I haven't found anything yet. I know that the people would have been born sometime within s few hundred years of the fall of Numenor, Because Isildur and Elendil were both alive before the fall of Numenor, and they both fought in the Last Alliance.
Also, Ushgarak, I actually agree with you about the Numenorean-Dunedain bit. If the Island of Numenor were not sunken under the Ocean by Divine Intervention, the War of the Ring would be over very quickly. The strength and power of Numenor was far, far greater than that of other men in Middle-Earth. Numenoreans were many times better than normal Men at many things, including most prominantly the Art of War. A group of ten Numenoreans would easily best a group of a hundred Orcs. As I have stated in my second Historical Facts thread, a normal, non-Elvish Man named Tuor bested more than ten Balrogs (one at a time) on his own. TEN+ BALROGS. And this is just an ordinary human. One of the greatest Men that ever lived, granted, but if ordinary could get that good, imagine how good the Numenoreans could get! I'd gladly exchange 20 normal men for one Numenorean any day. I will admit that Aragorn is probably just as good with a sword as any normal Numenorean was, but this is the King of Kings, and his strength is driven by a force beyond that of any other. It's people like Tuor and Aragorn that are the exception to the rule, but those exceptions don't come often.
About the Nazguls, no, he didn't really best them. They had gotten halfway to their goal, the other half being automatic. Therefore, all they had to do is sit and wait. However, the major thing missed here is that ARAGORN HAD FIRE. If you remember, Ring-Wraiths fear fire and those who wield it, and only because he had the fire was he able to drive them off.
__________________ Mormegil of great Nargothrond
Of that name he was ever fond
In his short time the Orcs he slew
Were so many that Evil flew
At the mere mention of his name
He who killed foul things for game
No true Numenoreans. The Numenoreans, who were of part Elvish descent, lived for Hundreds of years. The reason why there are none left is that Sauron had manipulated there king to invade the Undying Lands of Valinor, land of the Valar. Iluvatar, seeing this happening from beyond the bounds of the world, became furious at this and descended (somewhat) to the World. There he lifted the Land of Valinor out of its foundation and placed it countless miles away, far across the face of the planet. In his fury he also sank the ones proud island of Numenor under the Sea, and, as Sauron had predicted, the threat that the Numenoreans posed was destroyed and would never again come to rise. (Thus, as I said, did Divine Intervention destroy the land of Numenor). However, some hundreds of Numenoreans, untainted and still loyal to the Valar, had sailed to the lands of Middle-Earth. These Men, lead by Elendil and his son Isildur, forged the Last alliance between themselves and the Elves and marched into the land of Mordor.
Over time, those few Numenoreans who survived was joined with that of normal Men and the blood was diminished, in some cases completely. The Dunedain, "The Edain (elf-friends) of the West," were all that remained of those who were purest of blood, and their blood-line was the longest-living. Of that people were the Heir's of Isildur, his line of descendants. of that line comes Aragorn, son of Arathorn, and he is as pure-blood as they come (though still not very pure), and Great is he to behold. (An interesting fact: Aragorn is 87 years old at the beginning of FotR, has his 88th B-Day on the day that Frodo enters the Dead Marshes. Aragorn died on his birthday at the age of 210).
__________________ Mormegil of great Nargothrond
Of that name he was ever fond
In his short time the Orcs he slew
Were so many that Evil flew
At the mere mention of his name
He who killed foul things for game
Actually, Mormegil, that idea about Tuor slaying loads of Balrogs was an early idea of Tolkien's but he eventually rejected it.
Christopher Tolkien says:
"The idea that Morgoth disposed of a 'host' of Balrogs endured long, but in a late note my father said that only very few ever existed - 'at most seven'."
Feanor- more powerful than any man or Numenorean- was killed by the Balrog host and the original Glorfindel took one on mano a mano, but although Tolkien's writings are decidedly unclear on the subject of Balrog numbers, certainly Tuor hacking through that many can be discounted according to his later works and Christopher's comments.
You have to remember that a lot of Tolkien's works were unfinished and Christopher clearly talks of how you cannot take it all as true.
The Numenoreans were powerful enough to get Sauron to surrender to them... but they weren't THAT good!
And also some of tha tainted Numenoreans did survive from the Second Age, hence the Black Numenoreans. Tolkien is not, as far as I know, 100% clear on how they came to be, but I think it is that not all the Numenoreans were on Numenor or in the fleet, some were on the mainland and so presumably survived.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Jul 24th, 2003 at 12:57 PM
That's right, there were other Numenoreans on the Main-land that were tainted, and they were said to have fled into the south.
As I was writing I did realize that the killing of ten Balrogs seemed a bit far-fetched, and it makes sense that there would have only been seven Balrogs. I mean, they were all Maia, and there weren't THAT many... but I realized too late to edit my posts, so I had to stick with it. As for Feanor, he took on Gothmog, the Lord of all Balrogs, so it was a some-what more difficult battle. Never-the-less, the point was that Numenor's best were not to be mettled with, and that their skill was great beyond the measure of normal Men. Still, I'll try to get my facts straight from now on before posting... and a bit of common sense wouldn't hurt, either...
__________________ Mormegil of great Nargothrond
Of that name he was ever fond
In his short time the Orcs he slew
Were so many that Evil flew
At the mere mention of his name
He who killed foul things for game
Ah, it's ok. As I say, it's hard to keep track of Tolkien's stuff so I am always very cauthous about using a lot of his earlier works!
Still, whilst we are talking about the Numenoerans in the Nazgul thread... it is, of course, very likely that several- maybe all- were mainland Numenoreans themselves!
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Back to my original question, do you know the names of any of the people that turned into the Nazgul? Them beying Main-land Numenoreans seems very likely, but I still don't know any names...
__________________ Mormegil of great Nargothrond
Of that name he was ever fond
In his short time the Orcs he slew
Were so many that Evil flew
At the mere mention of his name
He who killed foul things for game
The Witch-King's Lieutenant has always been generally known as Khamul the Easterling (actually, I am not sure how official the 'Easterling' bit is, I think that was rumour), whether that was his name beforehand I do not know.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Wel, Thanks for your information. It'll be useful in figuring it out.
__________________ Mormegil of great Nargothrond
Of that name he was ever fond
In his short time the Orcs he slew
Were so many that Evil flew
At the mere mention of his name
He who killed foul things for game
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Jul 6th, 2003 11:13 AM
Wow!
