ya i think Ush is saying that the witchking was just temporarily "dispatched" and he could return to Baradur and receive another "body" like he did when him and the other wraiths were washed away at the ford. I always thought that he was gone for good hence the line where it says that mariadoc's sword which was from Arnor made some sort of retribution for the destruction of Arnor. Plus the other Wraiths quald and ran. all the soldiers said that the fear was lost in there voices and they were a voice of confusion. If the witch king could return i doubt they would be so distraught.
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
Turin....ya that's what I thought.....I didn't see anything about the Witch King coming bk! .....Otherwise, what would've been the whole point of everything?!!!(please log in to view the image)
__________________ "all we have to do, is decide what to do with the time that is given to us..."-Gandalf.
as long as sauron had the rings he could "make" new wraiths but it isnt an instant transformation and if the Witchking was perminately destroyed he would need a new one pretty quick.
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
Yep! A Witch King takes a long time to make...and after Sauron doesn't have the ring, he can't make other Witch Kings. Plus, the destruction of the ring is happening almost simultaneously w what's going on in the field...think of that...Also, the Wraiths came originally from corrupted power hungry men, who were the kings of men bk then...I think Sauron would have to find perfect candidates to fall into his trap once more....and by the end, everyone (almost) feared of living in pending darkness again!(please log in to view the image)
__________________ "all we have to do, is decide what to do with the time that is given to us..."-Gandalf.
The Witch-King was only permanently destroyed because the One Ring was destroyed soon after. The fact that the sword was Arnorian was why it could HURT the Witch-King (and because the Witch-King's deatjh was a crucial victory for the good guys, it was a decisive blow of which the extinct Cardolani would have been very ironically satisfied with!)- no normal weapon would have struck the Witch-King down with such a wound (indeed, I believe it dispersed the spirit in one go), but the Dunadan of those times could do nothing to destroy a Nazgul permanently more than Glorfindel could! Or even broken, Narcil would have been able to permanently destroy them with that logic.
No, they cannot be truly destroyed whilst Sauron lives- as says Gandalf:
"The power of their master is in them, and they stand or fall by him."
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
i dont know, everybody gets something different when they read the books. i trully feel that the witchking (which is true you cant have another witchking but you can have another lord of the nazgul) was destroyed for good. i know people are going to disagree and Ush has provided a good quote to the contrary, but i am going to have to reread anything that pertains to it to change me opinion. it kind of lessens the deeds of eowyn thinking that WK can just return to mordor and be right back into the action. he had quit a bit of time to do so and be back and ready for the battle at the black gate. it just dont sound right, i will do some reading and be back monday with what i find.....
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
Yes ur right!! Those r the logical reasons of why that wouldn't happen!!...If he didn't die...he would have been in time for the blk gate!!!! (please log in to view the image)
__________________ "all we have to do, is decide what to do with the time that is given to us..."-Gandalf.
Would he? Took them a good long time to return after the Ford- weeks if not months.
And Verity? No offence taken- just as Turin said, I was just pointing out that Sauron could not create a new Witch-King, as that was a name given to that particular Nazgul (before anyone knew who he was). He would just make a new Lord of the Nazgul.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Aug 17th, 2003 at 11:35 PM
but that's the point i want to make, that if one of them is killed, he could always get another to complete the nine.
and who ever he think is strongest would be made the leader.
__________________ i don't mean to sound distasteful but when did you start crapping money?
well the fords are a lot farther away then the peleanor fields, so you would have to try and figure out the speed of the wraiths on foot, which would be tuff, the distance from the peleanor fields to baradur, then some math, a task i am not willing to do . i went home and read that part of the book (the witchkings fall) and i wrote down the quote, came to work and lost it. but basically it says that a shrill cry went up from a spirit that passed away and died, never to be heard from again in that age of the world. now i take that as him being destroyed for good and ush's quote was just refering to if sauron falls they fall, though they can still fall on there own. but then again looking into it died could just refer to the voice of the wraith. like i said before with many things in tolkiens world you can take things literaly or figuratively (kind of like the balrog and wings thing) and it makes for a great variety of interpretations.
__________________
and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.
If I remember anything from reading the books, some of their power is drawn from the fear they induce upon hapless victims(i.e. the frightened little hobbits in FotR). Also because they themselves are not quite in the material world nor quite in the spirit world, and with Sauron being their only reason for being in that position, he must somehow give them power, but not too much, because you never know what those crazy half-dead dead guys might do.
__________________ "Squeeze me baby, till the juice runs down my leg.
Squeeze me baby, till the juice runs down my leg.
The way you squeeze my lemon, I'm gonna fall right out of bed."
-Robert Plant, The Lemon Song, Led Zeppelin II
...So when Sauron is destroyed...don't they disappear too?? Don't the Wraiths also feed on HIS power?? To me, if their voices r never heard of again, it just means that everything that goes along w it goes too!!!
__________________ "all we have to do, is decide what to do with the time that is given to us..."-Gandalf.
KMC Community Forums
Aug 13th, 2003 08:20 PM
.....Otherwise, what would've been the whole point of everything?!!!(please log in to view the image)
. i went home and read that part of the book (the witchkings fall) and i wrote down the quote, came to work and lost it. but basically it says that a shrill cry went up from a spirit that passed away and died, never to be heard from again in that age of the world. now i take that as him being destroyed for good and ush's quote was just refering to if sauron falls they fall, though they can still fall on there own. but then again looking into it died could just refer to the voice of the wraith. like i said before with many things in tolkiens world you can take things literaly or figuratively (kind of like the balrog and wings thing) and it makes for a great variety of interpretations.
