Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
I just did some research and discovered that Wanda did in fact generate and fueld the Chaos Wave, subconsciously though.
The CHAOS WAVE
Meggan sees the Chaos Wave in a dream right before it arrives. (please log in to view the image)
"it is the End ... of ALL that is ... of ALL that will Ever be"
"The Foundation and Structure of our existence, totally stripped away" (please log in to view the image)
"No more coherence to Causality, Chaos Beyond the comprehension of any Sentience, No matter how Grandiose it's opinion of itself"
The Hall alone "would fit entire Planets, with room to spare" (please log in to view the image)
"when the Citadel falls, ALL the Dimensions there are suddenly crash into One"
"During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp, Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury" (please log in to view the image)
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)
It continues to say "it is unclear whether his revival was the Witch's Warp or another cause"
Doesn't matter if he existed in a separate Plane of Reality, the Chaos Wave definitely made him manifest in Otherworld's Realm.
And the Chaos Wave is being referred to as "Wanda's Reality Warp"
The Chaos Wave is part of Wanda's Reality Warp
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Last edited by Mr Master on Feb 9th, 2007 at 11:53 PM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
The Uncanny X-Men #462
and the Jaspers' Bio is from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe v5 2006
btw. The Fury's Bio in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe v5 2006, also refers to the Chaos Wave as "Wanda's/Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp" ...
"Mad Jim Jaspers has also returned, brought back to life by the Scarlet Witch's recent Reality Warp" (please log in to view the image)
On Panel it was the Chaos Wave that brought Jaspers' into manifestation, he might of still existed in another Plane of Reality (cause he was dead) but that's inconsequential.
The interesting thing is that Marvel has Officially decalred the Chaos Wave "the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"
and no one can dispute that.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Feb 12th, 2007 at 07:31 PM
The Wave wasnt something directly generated or controlled by Wanda, but instead something she set in motion by accidentally tearing a hole in the dimensional wall of 616 through her reality manipulation.
This allowed the warped reality of 616 to seep through the tear in the form of the chaos wave. A rock was removed an avalanche was the result. She accidentally removed the rock hers was not the power of the resultant avalanche. It wasnt something she generated or commanded, therefore all the ensuing destruction was not a feat of hers.
Further to the point. The problem of the chaos wave could be fixed by merely closing the dimensional tear, thereby stopping the warped 616 reality from interacting with others through the tear, or by destroying the 616 universe. The tear allowed for seepage that was all.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
You made your point and it's appreciated, now I'll respond once, and there is no need to follow up on this matter after this, because you won't be changing my mind.
Don't wanna clog the thread (any further inquiries, Please PM me)
Thanx.
The "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp" is what was fueling the Chaos Wave according to the OHOTMU v5 2006.
Right here:
"During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp, Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury" (please log in to view the image)
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)
and right here:
"Mad Jim Jaspers has also returned, brought back to life by the Scarlet Witch's recent Reality Warp" (please log in to view the image)
And as I presented above, it was the Chaos Wave that manifested Jaspers 616 from the another Plane. (he was dead)
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Actually all Roma said was,
"We are witnessing a Trans-Temporal Tsunami, ORIGINATING from Earth 616, apparently there has been a Alteration of global proportions that has Breached the Walls of Causality" (please log in to view the image)
The reason the Wave is able to seep into other Realities is because of the "Breach in the Walls of Causality" that was caused by the "global Alteration" ...
The Trans-Temporal Tsunami is the Chaos Wave, even Roma has no idea what's generating that, as she continues to say,
"the Localized Effects are so Severe, I am UNABLE to Ascertain the Cause"
Hence the OHOTMU 2006, telling us it was the "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"
Which is also mentioned in Layla Miller's Official 2006 Bio ... (please log in to view the image)
Wanda gave Layla the power to "Perceive Divergent Realities"
The Chaos Wave is just part of Wanda's power, Wanda cracked a hole in the Walls of Causality in 616 and continued to crack Walls (in the form of the Chaos Wave) all along the sidereal string, collapsing Universes as a result.
I agree with this.
And the Warped Reality of 616 was Wanda's Power, so it was Her Power seeping through the tear in the form of the Chaos Wave.
Or more specifically like the Official Marvel Universe Handbook puts it,
"Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"
It's true that was the way to stop the Wave,
but the Chaos Wave was Wanda's Power nonetheless.
I'l agree she was not in control of it, but it was Hers.
Roma dcouments the chaos wave. She then gives a reason for its existence by stating there to have been a breach in the dimensional walls. Further to the point the fact that the chaos wave was stopped by merely sealing the breach tells you that it was brought about by the breach.
All it was was the seepage of Wandas warp through the tear. It was out of control reality seeping through and colliding with the walls of other realities, bringing down their structures and causing chaos.
Wandas power is to shape reality to her wishes. The substance of reality isnt her power or a manifestation of it, hers is only the power to shape that substance, to determine its form, but the substance itself is not generated by her.
For example. Say there was a big energy barrier around New York and Storm created a hurricane within, then after a while the pressure began to take its toll on the force field and a small hole was formed and some of the weather pattern seeped through going on to cause devastation across the U.S.
a) the resultant destruction wouldnt be a feat of Storms
b) Noone could claim that Storm could if she wanted to control and maintain that hurricanes progress as she merely manipulated the elements to bring it about and then it ran out of control without her knowledge.
c) the hurricane is the RESULT of her application of power to the elements. It is not a direct manifestation of her powers like when she shoots lightining out of her hands. The hurricane therefore would be fed and supported by the atmosphere and not any constant exertion from Storm to keep the hurricane from fading out, therefore without any on panel evidence of Storm applying her powers to the atmosphere and creating this hurricane and maintaining it on its destructive path, noone could claim she could be able to generate and use it in such a way as all that it did was not down to any exertion, maintenance or control on her part. She just created something and it spun out of control.
i.e theres a trans temporal tsunami, so quite clearly there has been an alteration thats breached the dimensional walls.
Romas said she couldnt ascertain the cause of the global alteration. She said nothing about not knowing what caused the wave. She says the wave was clearly caused by the alteration breaching the dimensional walls.
The Chaos Wave was nothing but Wandas reality warp seeping through the breach and reacting with the reality beyond, thats what caused it. That is why the future "Exiles" were told to end the problem, the breach needed to be sealed or the affected reality (Earth 616) would have to be destroyed to stop the warped effects Wanda had put in place from seeping through.
Wandas application of power to 616 changed reality to her wishes. She bended the rules of reality to manifest a desired effect. Since when was Wandas reality warping within 616 shown as a reality collapsing wave of destruction?
Did the chaos wave go around to other realities converting them to Wandas HOM vision or was it something she started which unbeknownst to her spun out of control with no exertion, maintenance or even awareness from her?
A reality warp is an area of space/time where a reality manipulator has manipulated the laws of causality to bring about their wishes. When Wanda accidentally tore a hole in the dimensional wall of 616 this area of warped reality spilled through and reacted with the reality beyond, sparking off the chaos wave. Wandas reality warp spilling through and out of control without her knowledge and without her powering or maintaining it.
Its like Storm creating a strong wind in a localized area for a specific effect and then not bothering to monitor it. The weather pattern expands without Storm there to determines its path and then it builds up power becoming a tornado, thereby transforming into something different than what Storm manifested, destroying land and buildings for miles around and beyond the localized area Storm had created it within. Unless Storm on panel had shown she could create such a tornado and use it in the way it performed without her involvement then such a tornado couldnt be used in versus matches as if it was part of her repertoire and it certainly couldnt be described as a direct manifestation of her power when what it was in the beginning when she was monitoring and controlling things was of a totally different nature and had a totally different effect within her localized area than it had on the surrounding environment it destroyed.
I think you get my drift.
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Last edited by GalacticStorm on Feb 13th, 2007 at 07:57 PM
Wanda was Driving the Chaos Wave into other Realities, like when it hit OtherWorld (please log in to view the image)
"it is the End ... of ALL that is ... of ALL that will Ever be"
THIS SAME Chaos Wave is referred to as "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp" in the Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe v5 2006.
In THREE separate Bios
1. "During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp, Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury" (please log in to view the image)
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)
2. "Mad Jim Jaspers has also returned, brought back to life by the Scarlet Witch's recent Reality Warp" (please log in to view the image)
And as I presented above, it was the Chaos Wave that manifested Jaspers 616 from another Plane. (he was dead)
So what does this mean?
Does it mean that, that big ass black whole looking thing, can hold/destroy anything?
If it has teh power to have LT in it, does that mean that it has more power than any singular being?
If you were to unsurp its power, would you have the power to destroy anything?
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Just found even more conclusive PROOF that the Chaos Wave was Wanda's Power.
(from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 Saturnyne bio) (please log in to view the image)
"She (Saturnyne) was later present on Otherworld when Dimension-616 was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp ...
Saturnyne showed little hesitation in suggesting destroying 616 to Prevent the Warp SPREADING"
Here is that scene On Panel,
Satynyne talking about the Chaos Wave or as the Official Bio puts it,
the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp: (please log in to view the image)
"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing Devastation to Branes ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING ... Sparing Yours condemns the REST"
"If the breach is not sealed, the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the ASCENTION itself" (please log in to view the image)
Roma threatens to erase the 616 UNIVERSE in 48 hours, if Captain Britain and company can't seal the (Chaos Wave) breach (please log in to view the image)
Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp
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Last edited by Mr Master on Feb 14th, 2007 at 01:34 AM
My point still stands im afraid. You havent addressed it at all. All you have done is ignore it, before going on to repost the same argument that ive already countered.
I havent PMed you about it because this isnt a personal or private issue between me and you. I am highlighting a falsity ive seen presented publicly and im doing it in this public thread. I am not spamming as anyone who reads this can see, im just illustrating how your account is unsupported on panel. There is no malice either intended or as far as i can see presented in my actions or my manner and my word is supported on panel.
The chaos wave which leaked across into other dimensions is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp because she was the one responsible for it, it was her actions which brought it about. That is made clear on panel. The fact that it is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp in the bios IS NOT evidence that she generated it directly or that she controlled it when ON PANEL she has no knowledge of it, makes no mention of it and its actually stated it was caused by a dimensional tear. The handbooks complement what occurs on panel, they are not a substitute for an on panel account. On panel you are completely unsupported. As such you or anyone are completely unjustified in presenting it as something that is within her repertoire to just conjure up to use as a weapon.
As stated by Roma the wave was caused by the dimensional tear:
i.e theres a trans temporal tsunami, so quite clearly there has been an alteration thats breached the dimensional walls.
She gives the reason for the chaos waves existence as being the dimensional tear that the Scarlet Witch unknowingly caused.
NOWHERE in the House of M main title is the chaos wave mentioned. In no comic title ever or any official publication ever is the Scarlet Witch shown to have directly generated, let alone controlled the dimensional wall eroding phenomenon that was the chaos wave.
NOWHERE in 616 is the Scarlet Witchs reality warping powers shown to manifest as a dimensional wall eroding anomaly. In 616 her powers allowed her to reshape the Earth to fit her vision. The chaos wave didnt alter causalitys laws to bring about someones vision, it eroded dimensional walls causing the reality within to collapse into chaos, causing nothing to make sense:
The wave was of a different nature to the Scarlet Witchs manifestation of power in 616 and it had a different effect on reality.
Unless you can show a chaos wave-like manifestation in 616 during house of M generated by Wanda which did the same things as the chaos wave and was of the same scale, then you are once again completely unjustified in presenting the wave as something Wanda is capable of generating directly and controlling when:
a) Its of a different nature to her manifestations of power in 616 and had different affects
b) Its not mentioned in any Marvel publication as being directly generated or controlled by Wanda ( The Chaos Wave being called Wandas reality warp in a handbook as aforementioned is insufficient as it can simply be referring to the fact that she brought it about which IS the case)
c) Roma the omniversal guardian actually states that the Chaos Wave was clearly the result of a global alteration ripping a hole in 616's dimensional wall.
With all that in mind whilst the wave was brought about by Scarlet Witch as a side effect of her reality warping in 616 as illustrated clearly by Roma, there is no evidence on panel that she could generate the wave at will to use as a weapon. Also even if she could the wave was only a threat if it was allowed to run riot. If confronted it could easily be stopped by merely closing the dimensional tear that spawned the wave:
As such wielding the wave certainly doesnt make someone above the abstracts as when confronted directly it takes far less than abstract level power to stop it and it certainly doesnt make Wanda beyond the abstracts not only for that reason, but also because theres no evidence she generated it directly or controlled it anyway.
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Feb 9th, 2007 11:49 PM
