The oracles "Snacks"
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I was wondering what your theories are about the cookie she gives Neo in M1 and the candy in M2. Are they just symbolic or are they programs like the Meros "BJ" Cake
While it is possible they could have been some kinda "program enhancer" type refreshments, like an anti-virus or such. I think it was just plain old-fashioned cookies and candy.
Well, apaprently there was more that they wanted to say in that scene. But they cut it out. I was going to explain it all a little more. The cookie Is supposed to be important. Or at least her offering the cookie is supposed to be. Well anyhoo, if someone knows of where you can get the original script before that cut was made that'd be great.
I think that the cookie is the truth, or more accurately, an internet "cookie". It is possible that it is a self-extracting executable, that executes when the user dies, ie Making Neo the One. And the candy is truth, as we can draw a parallel between the Oracles candy and Morpheus' pill...
its an anti virus that enables neo to enter the weird hallways
i dont know im jus guessing
Just to clarify, after watching the Oracle scene from Matrix Reloaded, Neo accepts the candy, however, he does not eat the candy. It is never shown to leave his hand. I think the importance of the candy, is when the oracle eats a piece.
It's colour and shape is like the Red Pill
the cookie and the sign that said "know thy self" had to do with being true to your self or being a good person like not being a gluton thats why the oracle says "have A cookie" not COOKIES. the candy had to do with choice she said "here" and neo said "do you already know if im gonna take it?" the candy had to do with choice he HAS to take the candy because she KNOWS he is... so how can he make a choice? well she explains that so i dont have to. any way hope that answers your questions.
I don't buy into the movie's issue of choice.
Neo is offered candy. At that point, he has a choice. He can take it or not take it. Just because the Oracle or someone else knows what he is going to do, this does not take away his ability to choose. Neo still makes an independent decision.
If Neo was forced to take the candy (or not allowed) that would affect his ability to choose.
"Choice is an illusion, betweeb those with power, and those without"
THe wachowskis have not led us astray for whimsy, when they do it is to reinforce an idea they are trying to get us to understand. It's like in Star Wars, when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Vader killed his father...It is the truth, but only a shade of the truth, and this is what the Wachowski bros do, they feed us shades of the truth. Therefore, when Mero says choice is an illusion, i believe him... Hence, Neo is told he already made the choice, but did he really, or is he just "Good at following directions"?
i think that the oracle is just a really nice programme
I think ... the damned cookies and candy have absolutely nothing to do with code or choice! It was just humor people! The movie is so serious at times, that if they didn't have a few lines of humor, it would be so dry you wouldn't want to watch them! Like when the oracle asks Neo, "Why don't you have a sit this time?"
"I think I'll stand."
Neo sits, "I decided I wanted to sit."
ya it is kinda funny
Go have a read of this then Vim:
Just a cookie? or a piece of candy? I think not.
Thank you, sifer, i had read that before, but i couldn't find it again...
Just as the Merovingian stated, "Choice is an illusion between those with power and those without"...............there is no such thing as choice. This is because Neo is a program.........he cannot make a choice because his choices were already made when his program was written. The Oracle tells us as much in Reloaded while talking to Neo on the park bench.
The Oracle: "You are not here to make a choice.....the choice has already been made......you are now here to understand why the choice was made"
Neo cannot make a choice.........his choices have all already been made (upon his programming).......he is now walking the path to understand why these choices were made (programmed), in essence.......figuring out what the program was meant to do. Basically, the program was written before The Matrix begins. Both movies follow this program during it's execution..............in the next movie we will learn the purpose of this program, what result it was meant to achieve.
if he is a program, then he doesn't question WHY he does it, for he was programmed to DO IT. Him questioning himself and his world, shows that he is "indeed only human"...
I don't know if you've missed this or not in the movies but.........the movie is about SENTIENT programs........programs that are self aware and can think, that is what sentient means.............I believe they cover this in the first movie when describing the agents.
ofcourse he has questions..........the entire movie series is built around questions..............this however has nothing to do with the fact that the oracle has already told us that Neo is incapable of making choices, that the choices have already been made........he is simply walking the path to understand how these choices will lead to the desired result.
Neo is programmed to do something..........he cannot change this. He can however wonder, "why do I have to do this"..........ofcourse the answer comes when he walks the path and finds out what the result is........he can then look back and see why he needed to do that something to arrive at the result.
the Oracle does not tell us Neo is INCAPABLE of choice, she tells him that, although he may not realize it, he has already decided how he will react to given situations, and thus the Oracle also knows. Also, when describing the Agents, SENTIENT does no mean they question their environs, it means they are concious of their environs and are able to make concious decisions about their environment. Neo questions himself, his life, his world, and this is a sign of humanity, the difference between humans and machines.
In the resterant Neo is told choice is not for people like him. he is told that is what seperates him from morpheus.
The cookie is and any other injection are programs. Take note.
The bug that is places in neo the first time.
The pill of choice
THe food at resterant
Whe the guy aboutt to stab neo, he wipe the blood on the knife, so it can be injected.
Noe Re-programmed smith when he injected himself into smith
now smith doing the same to others
Is there anybody else who believes this, or is joeboy the only deluded one...?
wow, thats great, really, too bad we already know that...
NEO HAS CHOICE AS DO WE ALL! mero is wacked just cuz neo kicked the s**t out of all his possie and then his wife helped him.
This is a take-out scene Where Morpheuse tries to brib himself out of the agents' grasp by offering Smith The Oracle's cookie
awww too funny
I think you should all read what Evil Dead has to say.
Good point Omega very good point, there is still choice because you yourself said "all the possibilities a SWAT could execute" so actually yes there is choice to a certain extent its just that the Oracle as you have said has cracked the Matrix and can see all possible choices so therefore she can see what path would play out when Neo acts.
BUt, if Neo understood the choice of Trinity living or dieing, he would've seen FARTHER than that, which makes me believe there is no choice...
Yes there is because he chose (went against) the other possibility than the rest of the Ones.
But we already knew the choice he would make, the Oracle already knew the choice he would make. He had to make that choice, He wouldn't have been able to live with himself if he didn't, he would kill himself from the inside...It is my opinion that Archie knew what Neo would choose, also...
But he did'nt have to take that door, but he did did'nt he? It seems Choice is an illusion created by the archie himself. It is mindstretching though is'nt it? I believe in both possibilities though.
We already know Neo is different than the others, not just because of his love for Trinity, but also because he is more "aware", maybe, smarter, more intelligent? "Interesting, that was quicker than the others". Thus, although it seems that Neo was thinking of the right choice, i think Archie knew he would ultimately pick the left door, i can't explain it, although i'm thinking, but i think he did, and i really don't put much faith in the Choice illusion, as you so adequately put it
You don't but did'nt you just state that you do believe in illusion of choice?
yes, i guess i didnt state that correctly...i dont believe they have choice, so my faith in the illusion that is called "choice" is non-existant, meaning i dont believe in the illusion, but i believe it is an illusion...hmmm, that still doesn't seem to clarify...well, both times, i meant that i dont believe that they really have any choice, any of them, including Neo...
Okay that sums it up. But we shall see come Nov 5th wether choice comes into play or not.
Hm now that I think about it will we, since there will be no plot because that was set up in Reloaded, darn them brothers.
Ok, now I'm lost. What was the ruling on Choice? Illusion or not? I've got some thoughts on it, but I'm getting confused now.
What did you guys think.
It was said that choice is an illusion because people that know the matrix (the oracle and archie) know what your choice is, so therefore you have know choice.
i agree that choice is an illusion...
Ok, that's what I thought. But do you think that that still applies to Neo? I can see them knowing everyone's choices. We all act like programs in a sense. They know how we act and they can predict how we will React to the things that will happen to us. But is Neo growing past all that? Transcending all that? yes/no.... I mean he is The One. Isn't part of all that supposed to be him growing beyond their control?
hmmmm... any thoughts
NO, i dont think so...i think, like Smith said, they're still apart of the system, although "free"...
The snacks?Like a grandmother giving out treats to young ones and also giving words of wisdom.Something most of us could understand.
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