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If the people of the matrix need choice, what is that choice. I keep getting told that neo has choice, but what about the people of the matrix?

They have to choose whether they take what their eyes see as real or not...in your case: which part of you sig image do you look at first!

aaahhhh its too hard to choose!

i look at the eyes first. But the smile is most important. I then look at the REST.

If the people choose not to believe, then what happens?

Then i guess they dont get to go for a ride, and spend the rest of the life in "ignorant bliss"...

"No soup for you"

auhhh to bad!

Its all a lie, there is no choice, it is predetermined...

So the matrix tells you who you are and what you will be?

which brings up the qeustion of neo being a machine

if he was a machine then when they extracxted him from the matrix and removed all the plgs and stuff then they would of clued on then that "he was not from around here"...unless that is normal....aka the humans are machines and the machines are humans theory!

no, the matrix doesn't tell you who you are and what you will be, it is, perhaps, coded into the humans, and the matrix, and Zion...this bullet will travel in this direction and hit this person in this place, and they are no longer alive...not reacting to the humans thoughts, but "use new proprietary MetaCortex software to actually anticipate the players' moves", basically, to quote the metacortex website...they tell the humans what they will think, do, how to react, but it is much more than the Matrix, it is also Zion, which would also include thier bodies in the real world, above Zion, outside of the programmed "real world"...it is basically a "game, it is only a game"...yes, perhaps they are all machines, outside of the programmed real world, which includes zion, but they are very much human inside it, perhaps AI has advanced to the point that it IS human, the simulation takes over the real...perhaps the way to perfect the AI, was to make it think it was human, fighting machines, convince it is must survive, ant the whole thing is staged, to increase the awareness of the AI until it is perfect, and wakes up...When "Neo" wakes up, the simulation is over, and the "perfect" AI has been created, which will then be mass produced, and marketed all over the world...

patented of course!

and an oracle can?

thats different...no really, it is, for the oracle can read the algorithms and functions running, and decipher the "choices" made, in reality seeing the entire path, or maybe just seeing what she is told to see...

okok i was just having some quoting fun

yeah, thats why i finished it...i really didnt realize i said that at that moment...

yes, she is programmed to study the qualities of the human phsyce which could in the end tell you who you are, and what kind of person yuo are, what jedihdm is telling us is that the matrix cant give a person their own traits, that comes from their own preferences.

"Its all a lie, there is no choice, it is predetermined..."

"the matrix cant give a person their own traits"

Traits etc determine choices, so if there is no choice, and it is all predetermined then the matrix determines a person traits as well...

god da** it this is so MINDBUGALING!!

Jedi> I disagree, if the matrix can't tell you who yo are then programs running within the matrix cannot either. Minds can make their own choice about who they will be and the matrix will support that. If the mind believes something then it is presented in the matrix

no, it is beyond the matrix, beyond the desert of the real...those are just programs, running the way they are MEANT to run...the matrix itself does not tell them who they are, just like the real world doesn't tell them who they are...it is ABOVE them, another program, perhaps, or the real world, the ACTUAL real world, but they dont have choice...

Hahahhahahahaa...

The oracle.. pardon me, Oracle, "knows" what will happen because she can predict it based on the reactions of humans.. basically she's an artificial intelligence that analyzes humans in order to determine how they will react.

no, she reads the coding of the matrix and, basically, is a math program that takes input and computees the answer, or the course of action to be taken...

How come she understood that humans needed to feel like they were making a "choice" even 'if they were only aware of it at a near-subconscious level' when she helped the archietect build a humanly-accepted version of the matrix?

WE DONT KNOW SHE IS THE MOTHER...i dont think she is, i think she is just another program, another form of control...

well, i think it's the artificial choice of zion or what they thimk is the matrix. when they reject the world they think is the matrix, they are freed to zion, just think they free... they still in the matrix.

when in zion they are free-er, but still improsioned by the machines...else they would be on the surface getting suntans! so it is not necessarily a MWAM...creation myths talk of tortoises on the back of tortoises ect holding up the world...so it is conceivable that thereis a level beyong zion...maybe beyond the machines...defined as GOD...like the end of the MIB, with the aliens playing marbles with the universe...have you not ever asked your self what is the universde contained in, if we are contained in the universe?

I think they still jacked in. just under the illusion of being free.

but wouldnt their primative minds eventually cotton on to the fact that real is not real but another level of simulation? And therefore would not the anomaly also appear outside the matrix level in response?

If they are still jacked in then is it possible that there is no such thing as machines because the whole body of knowledge of the powere plants, sentinels etc are just part of the next level simulation...it just keeps asking more questions...and the obvious one...Why? because the power scenario is just a simulation now!

that's how i been thinking. At lest you see why i say these things. Others keep thinking i change what i say. I may be wrong, but neo had the perfect life, and he rejected it. He was looking for a way out. so the matrix gave him a way out.
I may be wrong, but the battery idea don't hold water. As a huge human computer or a simulation program to see if we would except servitude maybe.

Why else woulfd neo be responsible for creating Zion. Why would the machines charge neo with creating Zion. the same reason the devil exist . Cause god give us a choice. Good or evil. how can you have that choice w/o both good and evil.

And also, those who except the perfect world are ok, but those who reject it look for a way out. Well when they see that they are fighting an endless battle, you have this savior that come along and do what, not save them but starts it all over.

Seeds the next simulation...with every seeding they approach what? What is the desired outcome then...there must be some convergence point...Neo has proven that he is different from the previous ones...so is it a stretch to assume that each one differed slightly from his predecessor? The one seeds the free people in zion. Then...if neo was to seed the next zion then the descendents would have his ability to love an individual more than the collective??? as a side note: in this incarnation they have got the sex bit perfected!

"Free love Baby, Yeah!"

he pulls his people from the perfect matrix and lives among them. So until he dies, some of what he knows will be spread among them. So the matrix has to adapt to wht knowlege they know.

he is a product of the previous and the next is a product of him....there is an evolution...?

makes him the beginning and end. also make mero speach make since.

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