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now that we can almost safely assume that there are actual clones within the film, is not possible that sidious was a clone and so was padme, i assume that is why they were both in the film,

perhaps the jedi think they have killed sidous/palpatine when all they have done is kill his clone.

also which characters do you think will be cloned?

Padme is in the film because she is the eventual mother of Luke and Leia.

I doubt whether any important charatcers will be cloned, not counting that Boba Fett rumour, and that isn't quite the same thing.

but aren't padme and admidala different people, just identical, and i'm sure sidious and palpatine look the same, wherever or not there the same person, who knows, i would have thought that by introducing clones into the first movie it would pave the way nicely for their appearance in the second movie.

Padme and Amidala are not different people. Different name for the same person.

Sidious and Palpatine, almost certainly, are the same person as well.

I think that palpatine is a clone of sidious. When Sidious is seen in TPM he looks alot older than the senator. This might help to explain why the jedi knights cannot sense the evil in palpatine

But as we know, 'Hard to see, the Dark Side is...', so that has already been explained.

The cloning explanation for Sidious/Palpatine is not impossible. Still, general feel is still sure that they are just the same person.

I agree the dark side is hard to see. But if Sidious and Palpatine are in fact the same person , i feel it would be hard to hide his true identity as a Sith Lord while in the presence of the full Jedi Council i.e. at QGJ's funeral. Does the Dark side enable its users to weild so much power as to fool a room full of Jedi Masters?

I guess the trick here is not to look at it in forms of sheer power but the limits of Jedi ability. Can a Jedi directly sense evil in someone? I don't think so. Nor do we have any reason to think they can sense power in someone unless they use it.

They CAN sense emotions and important stuff like that, stuff that WOULD give away a budding Sith Lord. Now, if we assume that a Sith knows tricks that can hide his true emotions then, no matter how powerful the Jedi, exposing Palpatine as a Sith Master would be hard work indeed.

And Sidious IS powerful, of course.

Well, I think that perhaps the spilled 'script' proves one thing...I'ts a fake! As far as I remember no clone 'attacked' whatsoever....

Indeed. Don't write it off too quick, but something is not right there.

Look at the other threads about the new title; this problem is discussed in some of them.

As I have superior Swars knowledge, perhaps you will teach me the way of the forums!

Brave words. I think you will fit here...

I'm actually off to bed right now, but post a hello in the Welcome forum (run by myself and my beautiful companion Edna), ask away and I will tell you all you need to know when I get back tomorrow...

Ah a new member. Welcome!

"HARD to see, the darkside is". But nobody said impossible.

I agree with Darth Lorac "is the darkside strong enough to evade detection by an entire council of jedi MASTERS?

I have been thinkiing about this alot and when I watch the OT, I am still impressed with Yoda's knowledge.

I think Yoda, at least, would sense the darkside.

I am now wondering...Is Palpy a clone?

clones, clones, clones ok so the new film is about these clones but I think we all will learn that they clone unknown persons.
I think it is one of the sith powers to hide their true emotions and feelings. (This is were Luke failed even if yoda warned him).
The fact that the siths have stayed in a form of sanctuary for a millenium, belived to have been wiped out, shows the strength of the Siths. Not even the jedi council members can sence them.

i haven't read the scriptments so perhaps i'm missing something here but how are admidala and padme the same person, there are countless shots of them together in tpm hence my original post about them being cloned.

They are one and the same person and always have been. In AOTC Padme is no longer queen, someone else is, and she is now a Senator for Naboo.

No clones, no mystery.

The more I think about it the more I am convinced that Palpatine is a clone of Sidious. Only time will tell and Episode 2 and 3 will tell.

When I first came across this forum I to thought Palpatine and Sidious where one person, but using logic and the title of episode 2 "Attack of The Clones" I am now pretty sure that Palpy is a clone. I am sure that I have read somewhere that clones can use the force as well, but they can never be as skilled as somone who has had a natural birth.

I know that Sidious was only seen as a holographic projection in TPM, he seamed to be alot older than palpy. In fact he looked only slighty younger than the emperor in ROTJ.

The Sith lords and the Darkside seem to mutch more powerful than their counterparts, so prehaps this grants them the power to hide from the Jedi. I am glad that DJ Velocity might possibly agree with me.

GL has has a habit of throwing in surprises into his movies. In Empire it was the revalation that Darth was Lukes father. In ROTJ it was leia being Lukes twin, so why not Playpy being a clone of Sidious.

One more question who trained Sidious and how old do you think he is?

I don't know where you get your clues, but you are most likely very wrong. maybe you should check out the TPM DVD on that age-difference theory of yours, because you have not been looking very well.

SW is a simple films. Clones are only going to be replacement warriors for battle droids. Mass production is the word. GL will not make complicated intrigues about Palpy cloning himself etc. This is about Anakin and the Clone Wars is provides the background where Anakin will fall to the Dark Side.

excuse my ignorance but how can padme and admidalla be the same person when 2 people who look the same appear in the same shot?

What shot are you refoerring to exactly?

I think you are thinking about the scene with: "Either chose brings grave danger, to us all", right?

I have a question that I have since the day I saw TPM:
I can't remember the sentence exactly but it was said by Sidi, and was about he didn't understand the move of Amidala when the scene before she explained it to Palpa, so this is maybe the hint that these 2: Palpa and Sidi are clones, this rumor is in circulation since 1990 if I'm not mistaken

Just to clear things up, yerssot, are you saying that Sidious and Palpatine are both clones?

Could Palpatine be a clone of a clone? i.e could he be a clone of Sidious?

well there's that scene, the scene with Boss Nas, the scene when the Queen ASKS Padme to clean r2 up, the end of the film when padme replaces the queen as amidala trys to storm the palace, the bit when padme is with qui gon on tatooine and ob1 is with the queen on the ship - to name but a few.

sand person 10: there is a difference with Padme and Sabe (I think that is the name)
Sabe is a handmaiden that is a very good friend of Padme, they switch a few times in the movie, so if there is an assassin they kill the wrong person, I thought this was very easy to notice because they have different faces: Sabe is not that 'fat' in the face, but Padme is. It didn't fooled me when I first saw TPM

Darth: I don't say they are clones, what I'm saying is that I find it strange that Sidi doesn't understand Amidalas move because it is too agressive; but he heard it a few seconds before from her own mouth. It was just a question that I had and I hoped that there was a simple answer to it

why would the queen fear an assasination attempt on her own ship and doesn't the other look fatter in the face because she's wearing some sort of ear and head dress

why would the queen fear an assasination attempt on her own ship

She just escaped a captived planet, her plane got almost shot to pieces and you say she doesn't fear anything? Whena yousa thinking shesa in fear?

Yerssot is right. The decoy Queen is Sabe, not Padme, played by a different actress.

The point of the handmaidens is that they all look vageuly similar to Padme, so in an emergency, a bit of make-up and the right headdress and they can easily be mistaken for her.

Watch the movie again closely; you will easily spot the differences between the two.

And yes, Padme is just playing it catuous and safe by continuign the decoy even on the ship. The trick was that no-one else was to know either, even the Jedi.

so it was amidala who went off with qui gon to the dangerous spaceport?

Yes, in Handmaiden guise.

Natalie Portman plays Padme Amidala Naberrie.

Keira Knightley played Sabe who as was said in the film was here "decoy, humble servant and loyal bodyguard". When Naboo was invaded by the droids, Sabe (Keira Knightley) dressed up as the Queen and Padme Amidala(Natalie Portman)dressed up as a handmaiden so she would be safe.

Watch the scene on Tatooine when Panaka tells Qui-Gon that Padme wants to go with him to Mos Espa. He gives Padme a very concerned look because Panaka knows that she isn't a handmaiden but the Queen in disguise.

Also the look Sabe gives Padme when she says 'Either choice presents great 'danger'.

Translation was 'Oi, Queenie! What the heck do I do?'

It's a Sheakspear thing. His plays are full of people going in disguise either to protect themselves or to do things that they wouldn't normally be allowed to do i.e a Queen going to Mos Espa.

I think Jar Jar should be cloned, theres nothing I would like to see more then a million Jar Jars...............I'm being sarcastic

Nothing wrong with a million Jar-Jars. That means a million deaths.

Nooooooooooooo..he's not a clone. Even McCallum said that he's the same person.

As for Yoda. I think maybe that his arrogance clouded his understanding of the force.

Now that's a theory I like.

i don't think he misunderstood the force, surely after 800 or so years he knew what he was on about, perhaps he was to arrogant to think that the siths could come back

btw is it a coincidence that yoda is roughly the same age as when the sith's were supposed to become extinct.

Roughly as in a couple of hundred years apart?

whats a hundred years between jedi's

Well, Mace doesn't get that old. I hope.

I don't think anyone on the Jedi Council has encountered a Sith before. Maybe Yoda when he was younger but the rest haven't met one. It's not a suprise that they can't see what Palpatine is.

Not even Yoda:
"But the Sith are extinct for over a millenia!"
And Yoda is 800 years that is still 200 years before Yoda that the Sith were 'extinct'

Is millenium 100 years?

Tsss!! A millenia is 1000 years

Yoda and the rest of the JC must have been trained by Jedi masters themselves. As the JC are made up from different alien races which i pressume have differing lifespans as well.

If some of their teachers come from long lived races such as Yoda, I assume that these old Jedi masters must have encountered the Sith, before they went extinct.

These old Jedi Masters must have trained the then young Jedi, how to hunt for the Sith or detect the Sith if it were at all possible.

Why? If they think that they are extinct; why bother? Sure, they train with the lightsabre but they didn't fight Sith as part of their training

this is a silly argument, the sith have remained in hiding for over 1000 years because they are very good at hiding!!!!! this inculdes remaining undetected from jedi.

Also i find it amazing that people think ami and pady are different people, did they watch the same film as me??

it is possible that palp is a clone of sidious but very unlikely and i quote "I will make it legal"

ps. someone commented that the scriptment must be wrong cos there is no clones attacking in this film, i think you will find that the big big fight at the end is clones attacking jedi, seems to make sence to me.

My point also R.

it is possible that palp is a clone of sidious but very unlikely and i quote "I will make it legal"

What do you mean by that?

im sorry let me explain, if when the trade federation are told to invade naboo they worry it is illegal and sidious says "i will make it legal", this is a massive hint that he has a lot of political power and infulence ie. he is palpatine. you can just as easily use the quote " i will watch your career with interest" to anakin as proof but i wont lol. I think that generaly the fact that its the same person kinda gives it away lmao.

And how about the fact that the whole film is about how Palpatine uses the Trade Federation to get himself elected Chancellor.

Like I have said before only time will tell whether in fact Sidious and Palpy are clones or whether they are in fact the same person.

But R's argument does nothing to convince either way. Sidious uses palpy as an instrument for his own voice. If palpy is a clone I am sure that he is taking orders from Sidious.

I am not saying that they are clones! I just think this might be a possibility! In a way I am trying to second guess GL. If they were clones, I feel this would make the story more interesting as well as tying in with the whole clone subject running through episodes 2 and 3

Not discounting the possibility of course. But right now we have more reason to think they are simply the same person.

NO!!!! Back to subject!! There is already a topic discussing that; otherwhise this topic will be closed!!

Seemed on subject to me, discussing possible cloned characters. Besides, off-topic topics only get closed if they are over 100 posts.

So who is in the O.T then? Palpatine or Sidious?

And what happens to the other one?

And how did Palpatine/Sidious clone himself when the technology is only being used for the first time in Ep2?

I got this one from Ush: they are the same person, he just dumped the title,
anyway, go to the the topic Sidious or something like that, with the starter Yerssot to get his full explanation

I know they are the same person.

yerssot, I welcome your suggestions, but let the mods decide when a topic is to be closed. And this one is nicely ON topic. Move along.

To the earlier point about hiding, 2 Sith probably found it wasy to hide, it's a big gallaxy....

Quite. And I guess most of the time there was only one.

how do you know that the cloning technology was only used for the first time in ep2, i've noticed that the sw galaxy does not tend to improve technologically with time, also there are always two sith, no more, no less.

does the size of the galaxy really matter, ob1 sensed the sith on naboo while they were in corusscant, vader sensed luke on hoth god knows how far away.

Luke sensed Vader on Hoth???? What special edition have you been watching. he only sensed him at the end of ESB when they passed the SD and in ROTJ when they got clearance to Endor.

And OB1 never sensed the Sith on Naboo. He sensed something elusive on the TF ship. Not the Sith so much. Besides, it was more a feeling of the future than a presence.

Have to agree with Queeq on this Sand person no.10. Luke feelings for his father allowed Vader to sense him on the Super Star Destroyer and also in ROTJ their feelings for each other gave them away. This only happens when Luke dicovers that Vader is his father and not prior o this. Otherwise I am sure that Vader would have found him alot sooner.

It is also true that it is a huge galaxy, so the Sith are able to hide. But how are they able to hide in such close proximity t the JC? Who knows?!!

Will there be a new Sith apprentince in EP2? . Who will the new apprentince be? Won't it take time for Sidious to train a new apprentince? Bringing it back to topic will it be a clone of Maul?

i didn't say that luke sensed vader on hoth, i said that vader sensed luke on hoth, you're trying to tell me that just by seeing a picture of a power generator Vader could tell the rebels and Luke were there, as luke showed on dagaboh, it is possible to see the past present and future and that was when he was still training, vader was a master so who knows what he could see, perhaps you only need a catalyst to be able to see things, i.e. the power generator, a comment from Yoda

I'm not so sure Vader sensed Luke on Hoth. I think it was simple deduction. If there was a major rebel base on Hoth then he was "sure Skywalker is with them." Sounds like mere calculation of chance to me. Not a force sensing capability.

And sorry for misreading your post.

but as admiral Osle (whatever) said it could be anything, smugglers, settlements etc... Vader would have had to have something with force ability to feel, there is also his comment about him being sure that skywalker is with them.
if it was a simple deduction then perhaps after rotj vader should have thought about a job alongside sherlock holmes, there are thousand of planets, thousands of probes, thousands of reports and from one picture of a power generator he is able to deduce that the rebels are there, thats some detective work.

(don't worry about misreading the post, people have a hard enough time understanding what i'm on about at the best of times)

Well, that's still mere speculation. I think Vader could see more in that, he's been at it longer and I guess he figured it too much of a settlement to be anything else.
After all, Piett thought is was unordinary and Ozzel, well, Ozzel. Let me just quote Vader on Ozzel: "He is as clumsy as he is stupid." There you go.

Indeed. We have absolutely no reason to think that sensing of other Force Powers/Users even exists, let alone over such massive distances.

We know they can sense minds, is all, and that seems a very localised thing.

Vader's highly developed instincts may have served him well in discerning that place to be the Rebel Base, especially as it was probably a bad locatyion for any of the things silly old Ozzel mentioned.

But instinct would have been as far as it went, he was 'sensing' nothing, and then, as has been mentioned, it was simply logical to say that Skywalker was with them.

I think maybe the cloning might have something to do with Qui Gon Jinn because he didn't dissapear when he died like Jedi's usually do.

I have got to say, I was always under the impression that Vader "sensed" Luke on Hoth. It was the way everyone said "Vader, man. Your talking out your arse pal" but he was still dead certain that that was the base.

I do agree with Sand Person on the "catalyst" caper. Vader knew nothing of his offspring until he was a) told, or b) sensed it (when he read Lukes mind about Leia). That says to me that the Force can be triggered by an event, comment, image etc.

In otherwords, even if you do have the Force, if you don't know what you are looking for, you won't find it.


On the note of clones, I can't see Qui Gon Jinn being one.

There is another topic discussing that, I think

I think an "Elementary, my dear Admiral Ozzel" would apply best to Vader's conclusion that Luke and the Rebels were on Hoth. He was smarter. Heck even Piett concluded that this might be a rebel base. And that just based on a "fragment".

It is not that simple to conclude that:
"There are thousands of unknown settlements, it could be smugglers who..." Ozzle gets interupted by Vader.
So, I think that it is not that easy, Piet just knew what Vader was going to say so he would suck up a kittle to Vader

How come Obi-Wan didn't sense the evil of Chancelor Palpatine at the end of TPM?

So, we all know Ozzel was stupid. Vader said so, so everything he says is stupid. Even the smuggler's line.
Besides, not Vader but Piett interrupted Ozzel, saying: "But sir, then Hoth system is supposed to be devoid of human life."
I think..... you made me doubt now.

Sorry, long time that I've seen ESB.
In the del rey book they explained it that vader saw a few speeders (the one that 'Fatty Fat' drove to find Luke and Han)
But don't waste your time, they aren't around in that scene of the movie.

Yes, Ozzel was incompetant, that is for sure.

That settles that then.

KDawg- you can't just sense 'evil', you know. And I think this discussion HAS been made somewhere else.

Yep, you can only sense bad things happening, correct?

You don't know if they are bad or evil, that is just a though we connect to something, they (the Jedi) know that there is going to happen something

Well, I don't know. OB1 did sense "something elusive" and that gave him a bad feeling.

He felt something in the future (keep your concentration here and NOW where it belongs) that could be already Darth MaulvsQGJ.
He felt also the destrucion of Alderaan, so he heard millions of voices suddenly cried out of terror and suddenly silenced. That is enough to know it is a bad thing

No, what he felt was 'as IF a million voices...' etc. It was just that the destruction of a whole planet caused a major force disruption.

What Ewan felt was the Phantom Menace; the general apporach of the Sith whose machinations he and QGJ were drawing close to,

If it was as easy as simply being able to sense who is and isn;t evil they would have a MUCH easier job!

Still, it proves they can sense whether something is good or bad.

I think that Ush is GL!!
Now Ush will start with the Jedis their sixth sense

Yes, he is. We forgot to tell you?

"Always emotion the future is".