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Ive just watched M1 & M2 back to back.. AGAIN and I would like someone to explain to me SOME kind of explanation/scenario for the Architechs and Mero's comments of the "predecesors". The only way there could have been predecesors to Neo is if MWAM is TRUE. Some people theorize that the Architect was lying, but that doesnt explain Mero's comments... do you believe he was lying too ?

Also, Im sure I wasnt the first to notice, but in M1 previous to Neo's interrogation with Smith, they Zoom into the scene from TV monitors EXACTLY like the ones in the Architechs room in M2. Are we supposed to think that the Architech was watching the events unfold or something? 1 outve 100,000 people wouldve noticed that by watching M1&2 one time. Amazes me how they throw these little things into the movie.

don't think i'm tryin to bash you or anything, but the monitors thing has already been discuss, but yes i looks like it was done that way (to amaze us). about the MWAM theory, i hope is false cuz it would destroy the whole concept M1 gave us

YEAH. Matrix will become

From the trailors, it seems MWAM isnt how it works out. I think that its bad story telling having Mero and Architect straight out LIE to Neo. 90% of us will only get confused in the movietheatre. If the only time they mentioned it was with the Architect, I could accept LYING as part of the story. It was mentioned more than once, this equals out to persuading and explaining to the audience. Things just dont logically work out.

i dunno about that; i feel like if MWAM is true, i will be betray by the wacho bros

Well, personally, I dont want MWAM to be true, but that doesnt leave me with a logical explaination for the PREDECESSORS. There couldnt have been predecessors that chose the rebuilding of Zion with 23 people. If Zion was rebuilt even ONE time, there would be a record of that in their history. If someone has an explaination for the predecesors, feel free to share.

you got me with that one

anybody can anwer plz?

I've grown to hate the 'word', "MWAM." It looks funny and sounds stupid if you try to say it.

M- W- A- M

it does sound funny!

Why the heck can Neo have only had predecessors if MWAM is true??? How does that follow?

BTW, just about everyone had noticed that baout the screens in M1.

Because Zion couldnt have been destroyed 5 times already. Like I said, there would have been a record of this happening in the past. ALSO what do you think the machines are doing? Pretending to dig? Do you think the 1st thru 5th time they detroyed Zion they filled in their digs? So over and over, the machines dig down to the center of the Earth, destroy Zion, let a certain number of people rebuild it, leave, and after they leave fill in the wormholes that got them there to begin with? Thats just dumb to say thats reality.

The only logical explanation TO ME would be the ONE chooses the rebuilding door and both the Matrix AND the real world matrix (MWAM) gets RESET... but thats just me... and its not how I want the story to go.

So I guess anyone who believes that Zion has been destroyed 5 times (by the words of Mero and Architech) believe the machines destroy Zion and fill in their holes... then resurface.

OK, 23 individuals must multiply to reach approximately 250,000 population RIGHT?? How many generations would you need to do that??? Thats hundreds, maybe a thousand years. Any mathematicians out there? Morpheus estimates that its the 22nd century 2100 something. Now 23 people multiply to make 250,000 5 times over within a span of 200 years. Hmmm.
God I hope someone followed what I just said.

yea as soon as it showed the screen i was like wait a minute.. and mwam doesnt have shit to do with there being 5 previous ones

But if they freed hundreds and started multiplying... Still wouldn't be 250,000

Solve this riddle....

M1 = "Reality". Two Seconds In Will Give Birth To The Truth.

Those that know, will know.

Indeed, Italien, you are WAY off there. Yes, Zion has been destroyed five times already. The machines leave no record of it for the humans, of course. And freed minds boost the population. 100 years is more than rnough time- population seems a little low if you ask me.

In absolutely no way whatsoever does that prove MWAM true.

OK Omega lets consider your math was right.

After 80 years you came up with a population of 132,000 people. For arguments sake, lets just say after 100 years you did have the expected number of each cycle of 250,000. This is supposed to be happening for the 6th time now... so obviously ~600 years would be needed and the year would actually be more like 2400 or 2500AD not what Morpheus said. I believe it was 2160.

My next point is this.. wouldnt the people REBUILDING Zion ask "Where the hell did all this damage come from ?" So youre saying that nobody within the city actually knows HOW they got there. Thats interesting.

Im not fightin with you dude, Im looking for answers and youre giving good explanations. thanx. Im not gonna sit here with a calculator, itll make my head hurt. Cmon, did you take into consideration that women cant have children until 15 or 16 years old? Not gonna get that specific, thanx for figuring that out though.

Anyway you answered my question for the most part, I like the idea that the year would be closer to 2700 because Morpheous was "ignorant" to the situation. But again, Zion is rebuilt by 24 people. THESE 24 people are basically thrown into a destroyed city and the origination of this city is unknown? The ONE that freed them cant tell them the truth? This is the part that my brain is obviously creating a block to understanding.

See, they DON'T know... (At least, so our GODerator says...)

This was Taken from a law of physics essay

One can have "point doubling" and "line splitting".


"Thus one can, for instance, impose the Einstein field equations in the usual manner. Every now and then, however, a 'temporal anomaly' induces a 'non-Hausdorff wavefront' which duplicates the whole universe... This structure is now sufficiently rich to be able to offer a 'multiple history' resolution of the consistency paradoxes... The moment x that he/she/it steps out of the time machine into the past... a 'temporal anomaly' occurs. A new history (a new timeline) is initiated... the traveler can change history all he/she/it likes ..." (p.253).

Italien, why do you think they always build Zion in the same place? They don't. NO trace of the past is left. Each time through the cycle a new Zion is built SOMEWHERE- they have the whole planet to chose from!

The One does not tell them the truth either because he cannot (due to memory alteration) or because he DOES not (as that would lead to a breaking of the cycle and hence the destruction of humanity)

And each time, a new Zion is built, with the humans thinking it is about 2100, and that there was a One who freed the first and will come again.

And of course it is closer to 2700. The Architect said as much-

"The Matrix is older than you know."

Well, you guys cleared some things up for me, you did exactly as I asked from the start Im normally not THIS confused in movies and I am a fairly smart BUT we'll see next week if this is the real deal !

Excuse me; this is the only time you'll say this! Why Or What!? LOL; You're kidding; right?

1% of the population will reject the matrix and the one takes them to zion to rebuild, why do the machines need to keep this percentage alive why not wipe out that 1% or wipe zion out... the anomaly needs the previously freed minds to find out he is in fact the anomaly... so this leads me to believe as im sure alot of you do that machines need the anomaly to go through the cycle but i missed exactly why the arcitech needs neo to do this? to keep reloading the matrix until it is completely human?

we are not sure of the ultimate reason for having the ONE continue the Matrix, however, the Architect allows the freedom of some to allow the rest to live in peace, cause the rebels cant spend ALL their time in he matrix, freeing minds...

The 1% rejection factor (more accurately, close to 99% acceptance factor) is the best they can get- other versions had a much worse rate. This system is based on choice and so they have to allow that to continue- or no system.

if older versions had worse rates why not just destroy the 1% and keep the one matrix instead of keeping zion alive?

Morgan> As the Architect explains, 1 % of the pod-humans simply WILL not accept the virtual world. Due to the solution the Mother stumbled upon. But the rest do. This solution includes an unequal-equation (mathematical nonsense, an equation will EITHER be equal x=y, OR unequal x /notequal y).

This creates an anomaly (small wonder, the math isn't really working). This anomaly is assimilated by SOME human after about 100 years of a cycle. In this, the sixth it's Neo, we don't know who his predecessors were.

The 1 % who don't accept the program will constitute an escalating probability of disaster, because they will cause the program to become even more unstable.
So two solutions in one wrapping. Let the rejects be freed, give them a prophecy of a person, who can change the Matrix at will, who'll end the war and they'll eagerly look for and find this One, and wrap HIM in the myth. Just look at Neo.

This way the rejects are all in ONE city, and the One is controlled by the prophecy, the Oracle and the PATH, since the machines seem to know, that humans look for a very particular thing in their lives: Meaning. Purpose.

Yes, your question shows you don't quite understand, Morgan, which may be a fault with how I said it.. There WAS no '1%' before the solution was found- the rejection rate was much LARGER!

The point is that by allowing choice they got the rejection date DOWN to about 1%. If they COULD get it lower they could- but they can't. So what they do instead is control it.

They cannot stop it without removing that element of choice- at which point things become much worse again.

So what the machines want is to simply control "the one" in this endless cycle. So whats the problem this 6th time around? Is it because Neo fell in love and chose the OTHER door and /or Smith acting like a Virus and causing the Matrix to crash?

theres no MWAM because i said so... stick that in your blunt and smoke it! :smoke: NOT YOU SMILEY!

sorry i quoted myself instead of editing

:ounding like Neo:: No. I won't believe it. It can't be true. There is no Matrix within a Matrix. ----

I mean really come on. It sounds godo right.. it would work out great but lets face it, no way it can be true.. i mean come on. Neo has the powers to do what he did from leaving the source room and not picking to reload zion... since he made a new path.. all rules are out the window... the fkc guy can't control what door neo picks but people like the oracle and the prophecy help point neo to the door of reloading and love points neo to the new door. no other "one" picked that door before and we have not a clue what powers the first 6 "ones" had

we THINK no other one has picked the left door...

Yes, difference is that Neo's affection for humanity was concentrated on one person rather than humans as a whole.

Smith also appears to be a difference but this could be connected, as Smith is connected to Neo.

Smith cares for himself at the cost of humanity, Neo cares for Trin at the cost of Humanity...same general idea, however, Neo's is selfless...