Ive just watched M1 & M2 back to back.. AGAIN and I would like someone to explain to me SOME kind of explanation/scenario for the Architechs and Mero's comments of the "predecesors". The only way there could have been predecesors to Neo is if MWAM is TRUE. Some people theorize that the Architect was lying, but that doesnt explain Mero's comments... do you believe he was lying too ?
Also, Im sure I wasnt the first to notice, but in M1 previous to Neo's interrogation with Smith, they Zoom into the scene from TV monitors EXACTLY like the ones in the Architechs room in M2. Are we supposed to think that the Architech was watching the events unfold or something? 1 outve 100,000 people wouldve noticed that by watching M1&2 one time. Amazes me how they throw these little things into the movie.
don't think i'm tryin to bash you or anything, but the monitors thing has already been discuss, but yes i looks like it was done that way (to amaze us). about the MWAM theory, i hope is false cuz it would destroy the whole concept M1 gave us
__________________
"When Gotham is ashes, you have my permission to die." -BANE
From the trailors, it seems MWAM isnt how it works out. I think that its bad story telling having Mero and Architect straight out LIE to Neo. 90% of us will only get confused in the movietheatre. If the only time they mentioned it was with the Architect, I could accept LYING as part of the story. It was mentioned more than once, this equals out to persuading and explaining to the audience. Things just dont logically work out.
Last edited by ITALIAN926 on Oct 28th, 2003 at 11:06 PM
Well, personally, I dont want MWAM to be true, but that doesnt leave me with a logical explaination for the PREDECESSORS. There couldnt have been predecessors that chose the rebuilding of Zion with 23 people. If Zion was rebuilt even ONE time, there would be a record of that in their history. If someone has an explaination for the predecesors, feel free to share.
Because Zion couldnt have been destroyed 5 times already. Like I said, there would have been a record of this happening in the past. ALSO what do you think the machines are doing? Pretending to dig? Do you think the 1st thru 5th time they detroyed Zion they filled in their digs? So over and over, the machines dig down to the center of the Earth, destroy Zion, let a certain number of people rebuild it, leave, and after they leave fill in the wormholes that got them there to begin with? Thats just dumb to say thats reality.
The only logical explanation TO ME would be the ONE chooses the rebuilding door and both the Matrix AND the real world matrix (MWAM) gets RESET... but thats just me... and its not how I want the story to go.
Last edited by ITALIAN926 on Oct 29th, 2003 at 12:08 AM
So I guess anyone who believes that Zion has been destroyed 5 times (by the words of Mero and Architech) believe the machines destroy Zion and fill in their holes... then resurface.
OK, 23 individuals must multiply to reach approximately 250,000 population RIGHT?? How many generations would you need to do that??? Thats hundreds, maybe a thousand years. Any mathematicians out there? Morpheus estimates that its the 22nd century 2100 something. Now 23 people multiply to make 250,000 5 times over within a span of 200 years. Hmmm.
God I hope someone followed what I just said.
ITALIEN> Mind explaining to me, how Zion couldn’t have been destroyed five times already, if the real world is real? Why should there have been ANY record surviving the destruction of the human city?
Every inhabitant of Zion, every man, woman and child is killed. The One chooses 23 individuals FROM the Matrix (hence the story of the “first one”, and the one who freed “the first of us” as Morpheus explains). The only one of these 24 who knows the truth is the One in question. If he lets anyone know about the intricate system of control, what should stop the machines from simply wiping Zion out completely the next time?
Yes, the machines do INDEED fill their digs, so the 1 % who does not accept the program, and the anomaly that arises because of this, can be controlled. And the machines do not dig to the centre of the Earth. Zion us 4 kilometres down (Last Flight of the Osiris). It’s a simple geological miswording in M1, when Tank says “close to the centre of the Earth). NO city could be there, the pressure would crush anything and it would melt. It’s close to the molten mantle.
It’s not dumb. It’s the thinking of a machine. It’s the easiest way to control the “free” humans, and circumvent the build-in paradox of choice.
And you guess correctly. I am positive Zion has been destroyed five times (and that the machines have become increasingly efficient at it). Because the machines do not lie.
23 must MOT multiply to reach 250.000 in a hundred years. You forget all the freed minds who can ALSO have children. And it’s not within the span of 200 years. You forget, that every cycle of the Matrix, with it’s integral anomaly lasts a hundred years.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
M1 = "Reality". Two Seconds In Will Give Birth To The Truth.
Those that know, will know.
__________________
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Indeed, Italien, you are WAY off there. Yes, Zion has been destroyed five times already. The machines leave no record of it for the humans, of course. And freed minds boost the population. 100 years is more than rnough time- population seems a little low if you ask me.
In absolutely no way whatsoever does that prove MWAM true.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Droopy> There are, initially 16 women and 8 men. Let’s for the sake of argument say that each women bear 4 children in her lifetime to assure mankinds continued survival, but let’s just place them next to each other for easy counting. And since, later on, some women may have fewer, some more children.
That’s 16 x 4 = 48, lets say half are boys half a girls.
The 24 people also free minds. Men and women, who can also bear children. Let’s say that it takes 6 to free a mind every three months. So in a year 24 Zionites can free 12 minds.
Zion-year 20: We have (24 originals, 48 youngsters, 240 freed minds.) 312 Zionites. Half the kids and half the freed minds will bear children. That’s 576 kids. Of these, the originals and the freed minds can free more minds:
Zion year 40. We have (3520 freed minds, 576 kids, 312 Zionites from year 20) 4408 Zionites. Of these 4096 will bear kids. That’s 16.384 kids. And again the free minds free more minds (let’s say the 24 originals make a council).
Zion year 60. We have (4694 freed minds, 16.384 kids, 4408 from year 40) 25.486 Zionites. Let’s assume old age kicks in simultaneous, so the 24 originals die, and it’s dangerous being a rebel. So it’s clean 25.000 people in Zion. Of these app 10300 will have kids. That’s 41.200 kids. There are, lets make another app, 5000 people to free minds. That amounts to about 66.000 people during the next 20 years.
Zion year 80. We have (66.000 freed minds, 41.200 kids, 25.000 Zionites) 132.200 Zionites. Go figure what happens during the next 20 years.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
After 80 years you came up with a population of 132,000 people. For arguments sake, lets just say after 100 years you did have the expected number of each cycle of 250,000. This is supposed to be happening for the 6th time now... so obviously ~600 years would be needed and the year would actually be more like 2400 or 2500AD not what Morpheus said. I believe it was 2160.
My next point is this.. wouldnt the people REBUILDING Zion ask "Where the hell did all this damage come from ?" So youre saying that nobody within the city actually knows HOW they got there. Thats interesting.
Last edited by ITALIAN926 on Oct 29th, 2003 at 02:09 AM
Italian> Please, go through it for errors if you like.
And then please answer the points I address in my second to last post which is addressed solely to you.
Yes, this IS happening for the sixth time now. And yes, it’s closer to the year 2700. And what you fail to understand is, that Morpheus doesn’t KNOW the truth. How should he? He believes he’ in the only Matrix that has ever exited (aside from the first perfect one, Smith tells him about in M1).
And the people rebuilding Zion would likely ask that question: And think, it’s the havoc caused by the man-machine war that started all of “This”.
Where, do tell, am I saying no one in the city knows how they got there. Please, I’d like a quote-reference. They THINK that they’re either descendants from the people who the “first” (in their belief) One freed from the Matrix, and the ones freed after that.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
KMC Community Forums
Oct 28th, 2003 10:54 PM
