The Merovingian -- Could he have also been "the One"?!
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This is a post I found on another board that proposes an interesting theory I have not seen here. If it's been posted before I apologize!
(5/23/03 7:40 pm)
Reply The Grand Merovingian Theory
All other characters except for Neo, Trinity, and Merovingian have names pulled from Ancient Greek or Roman mythology. Merovingians are a line of Kings/Rulers who felt they were descended from Christ through Mary Magdelene.
Merovingian is the only other one (besides Neo) who seems to be able to manipulate computer code (the cake). Merovingian is said to have once been much like Neo. Therefore, Merovingian is a previous incarnation of the One. This would also explain why Merovingian holds the Keymaker prisoner (from his previous attempt to fulfill the prophecy). And so on...
Persephone would be the "daughter" of the "mother" of the matrix, since in Greek Mythology Persephone is the daughter of Demeter, who is the classic earth-mother. In mythology, Persephone lives half a year with Hades (whom she has learned to love) and lives the other half a year above ground to be with her mother (whom she also loves). This explains Persephone's divided loyalties and how the Oracle is able to predict her behavior and her willingness to help Neo if he shows up at a certain precise moment. It also explains Persphone's attraction to Neo (who is similar to what Merovingian once was) and why she helps him.
Merovingian gets mad and jealous, of course. That is part of why he is so disdainful of Neo at first, assuming Neo is the new "One" and is acting out a part at direction of the Oracle, though he doesn't understand the "why" of what he is doing. He expects Neo to fail. It also fits in with the Hades character who abducted Persephone in mythology and is jealous of Persephone's shared loyalty between him and her mother, Demeter.
Merovingian, in his anger, makes an attempt to stop Neo's abduction of the Keymaker. When he is unsuccessful, he takes out his anger on the Oracle, destroying her "shell."
"Something feels different..."
Neo must realize he is a program, similar to Merovingian, but existing in both the mainframe and the "real" world at the same time (similar to Agent Smith who is in the Matrix and the "real" world). At the moment Neo has this realization, his mainframe self also realizes it. Knowing this (because he has some precognitive abilities similar to the Oracle), Neo concludes his computer self will stop the Sentinels. He raises his hand at precisely that moment...
...and falls into a coma.
i typed up a detailed response then it had an error and i lost it.. so ill go with a simple one cause this has already been debated a lot.. mero isnt the only one can can manipulate code.. hes a programer theres lots of programers, hes also a program!! not a former ONE i garuntee you that..
the mero is not a former one, the merovingian is a program, has always been a program, Persephone was married to HADES, not the son of GOD...Mero has "survived predecessors", and he is in the matrix, instead of Zion...the ONE would have returned to ZION to help set up the family, and the defenses and such...so, no, Mero is not a former anomaly, he is a program
thank you.. and can this end now id be willing to bet anyone any amount of money hes not a former one theres no ****in way
Just devils advocate (I obviously wasn't around when this was debated)
Smith wasn't able to manipulate code until after Neo "destroyed" him. The agents ability to replace humans inside the matrix was only a means to seize control over that signal.
We know the Oracle can read computer code, and this is how she know's what Neo's going to do, but has she actually manipulated code? No.
The architect may have programmed the matrix, but we also haven't seen him manipulate code. And the Keymaker is just a program who has the logorithm for producing the keycodes to enter the back doors, but it's not manipulation in any sense.
To be honest, we haven't seen any of the programs manipulate code. Short of Smith (who was destroyed/freed by Neo) and the Merovingian.
Then the Quasi-biblical reference of the Merovingian's name is interesting.
And it's been mentioned in other threads that Neo could die, but his mind may live on in the matrix. Could that not apply to a previous anomaly? Perhaps the Merovingian was the very first anomaly, and he survived through a reverse measure of what Smiddy did. Perhaps he seized control of a program and rewrote his mind's being over it, much the ways Smith did to Bain in Reloaded. So now the Merovingian is nothing but another program, but at one time he and Peresphone were much like Neo and Trinity - now they are just rouge programs who are only there to live with power - shells of their former selves. As the Oracle said, he is a program, and one of the oldest, but maybe a version behind the matrix?
Again, I don't know what you all debated.
I just thought it to be an interesting take on the situation and wanted to share if it hadn't already been! I know my explination would make a lot of assumptions of the other anomalies in previous versions, so I do not post this as anything else than to entertain!
Feel free to throw in your two cents. Or we can close...
why WOULD the previous one NOT tell Neo if he knew what was going to happen? it makes no logical sense...if i were a previous one, i would WANT the humans to survive, to win, thus, i would not live the high life in the matrix and keep the cycle going...
"What do all men with power want? More power..." He is not human anymore - if the theory is correct. You are thinking from the other side of the problem. Perhaps he was a greedy corprate scowndral when he discovered that he was inside the matrix, and, much like Cypher, did not look forward to a life in the real world where he had to follow a chain of command, live in a poverty of sorts, and not be able to control things himself. But, inside the matrix, he was god like. Why wouldn't that appeal to a greedy SOB?! Why would Cypher want to kill his crew-mates and be reinserted into the matrix? Because they're lazy, hopeless, greedy, only thinking of themselves.
So once the Merovingian took over a program like Smith took over Bain, his body would be dead, but his mind would live on. After centuries he would likely have been very altered by the process and now his only connection with who he once was is purely system access and control, but mentally he would not want the matrix to end because it would mean the end of him. Which is all he cares about.
understandable, however, he acts as if he has never seen a human use the kind of powers Neo has, but that he knows it is possible..."Alright, you have some skill"
Isn't it possible that he knows it's possible because he once had it, and the only reason he didn't expect Neo to have that skill yet was because he thought it may have taken more time for Neo to develope that skill?
The Matrix is the Merovingian's home now. If the Matrix is shut down, then he dies. He wouldn't want to help Neo, because if Neo knew he was just another anomaly, he wouldn't go to the architect, and thus, the Matrix wouldn't be rebooted.
Mero was never a ONE....This came up only because of what Persephone said..."he used to be like u"...That only means the f*#$ker used to feel!
Wrong. That's not why I brought this up. I found a post that refers to something else
Read my first post on this thread for the full post off of another board.
Another stupid reason??...
Stupid reason? The story is full of quasi-biblical references!! Neo has been refered to has Jesus and his reserrection, along with many other analogies...
I think that it makes a lot of sense, but we have to make assumptions on all the previous versions of the matrix - assumptions that we cannot know, and probably never will.
In discussion with Kozzy earlier, we kinda concluded that, though complicated, it would be possible for Neo, or any of the anomalies, to copy themself, and perhaps others (like Trinity?) over a machine's program inorder to live forever with power and control over a system.
It is nothing more than an entertaining, and interesting concept to ponder. I don't see anything stupid about connecting references...
And since Persephone did say that the Merovingian used to be like Neo, and the WB say there are many twists, it could be true.
Meta> what does any of what u said have to do w my question about Persephone??
I wasn't answering your question about Persephone, I was adding onto what Metamorphisis said...
Nope, simply does not scan, goes against all said and would be a pointless plot development. Take it as read- he is an old programme and no 'more' (in commas ibecause there is nothing intrinsically inferior about being an AI programme), very different to Neo.
And I see no reason to not believe that powerfrul programmes cannot write programmes in the Matrix themselves- it is no different to Operators loading stuff into the Matrix. That is not even remotely like Neo's abilities.
"All other characters except for Neo, Trinity, and Merovingian have names pulled from Ancient Greek or Roman mythology"
(and I understand you are just reporting this, not saying it)
All MAJOR characters that is. Oh, except THREE of them, two of them being two of the three most important.
Many of the other characters have names not even remotely derived from Roman or Greek.
So that postulation is poor.
Your comment was that this only came up because of what Persophone said, when I commented that this was not why I brought it you you said:
So I replied to that -- saying I didn't think my reason was a stupid insight.
My first post is a cut and paste off of another board I thought was interesting. I'm sure if you take it further it could be put together much better.
Admittedly it would take a lot of assumptions about previous matrix versions - but it is possible. That said, I don't think it's probable. It would give the movie a whole other dimension that would lead to other movies wouldn't it? Hmmm or maybe that's the whole point?
Yeah, as I say, I appreciate it was not your own idea.
Just when someone starts it with a statement that's really just not so, it kinda makes me worry about the credibility of any of it.
Do you have any idea what the poster was trying to say, btw? That because it was not Roman/Greek therefore there must be more to the Mero?
Well that was his first post in the thread. I'll have to go to my home computer to look it up again, but his biggest connection from the thread that I read was the quasi-biblical reference to the Merovingian, who were a line of kings who thought they were decendants of Jesus from Mary Madelen...when I get home I'll look up the whole thread and post more about it..
Yeah, but my point is that he immediately makes an (incorrect) assertion that he was one of very few characters without a Romano/Greek name. What that particular part of the claim, as opposed to simply saying where the name come from, meant to mean anything? It's not important, I am just curious as to WHY he made such a claim even if it were true!
My friend proposed a theory a long time ago that The Architect chooses his appearance to be The Mero inside the Matrix.
What would you guys think about that? That The Arch. is The Mero.
No. The Architect can interface directly with the Matrix, and would have no reason to hide his identity like that. Besides, the Mero did not want Neo to have the Keymaker which he ultimately needed to reach the architect. The architect would have no point in doing that as well, since he wants Neo to reach him to remove the anomaly from the system and reinsert the prime code.
Plus the Merovingian's quasi biblical reference does not apply to the architect since the architect could not be a descendant of the anomaly since he was there BEFORE the anomally...
Nice aproach but off base..
Short of my mistake on being off in minor details that don't have a lot to do with the point - his theory had some weight, I played on that and think that I found it to be quite feasable. However I don't actually believe it to be true, I wanted to argue it for arguements sake. I'm not a great historian or an expert on names, nor do I want to take the time to research all of that - I've got enough of my own ideas to support! LoL
But if you want to read his post and tell me what you think you can find it here:
I've read the debates about whether or not the Merovingian is a former one. It gets pretty deep, so I only have one simple thing to add:
In the Matrix, when Neo wakes up after being contacted by Morpheus, his apartment number is 101.
In Reloaded, when they go to visit the Merovingian and they get off the elevator, the suite/floor number is: 101 of course.
Interesting insite! I never caught that *runs to his DVD collection* Ah...thanks for another excuse to watch four hours of excellent TV.
Oh yeah, we've had plenty of comments on the 101 thing over time...
Thanks for the link, Meta. Seems the guy does noit back that statement at all. Odd. I wonder why he opened like that, he must have been meaning SOMETHING... oh well, not greatly relevant.
He can't be because he's a program, NEO is human. But then again, maybe all the other 'ones' were programs:
Architect: Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication...
But then he says 'Neo experienced this differently' which would mean they were in the same situation, but Neo got it another way. Which would eman they were all human except they didn't fall in love.
Which leads back to my theory, If Merv is a program, he can't be a former 'one'...
There's already been a thread about this. Closing.
Do a search. Closing.
i decide to check out the matrix forum after a hiatus and this is the first piece of shit i see... it still hasnt ended.. when will the madness stop
Wow, I can see this is really closed. lol
I dont think Merv is a former one but i can see why some might;
101 connection: has anyone explained this? however the loop train has 101 inside its carriage, (look in zion arkives), so might not mean much.
Persephone says Merv used to be like Neo: im sure this means he had feelings, she does feed off emotions.
when merv is watching the cake he says to neo 'you can see it, yes?': this means merv can see code like neo, but can other programs?
There are many references to '101'. Freeway 101 for instance. The Merovingian is definately not a former one because he "is one of the oldest of us".
When merv is watching the cake he says to neo 'you can see it, yes?': this means merv can see code like neo, but can other programs?
Yeah but if Merv was a 'One' then wouldent he be pluged in some were? and when Neo gose to see the arcutect when you look at the screens it shows you the 5 ones and they all look the same as Neo. (there is a samll group of screens in the center that show the reaction of the previos Ones)
Of course other programs can see code - This is shown by The Oracle, The Architect, Merovingian, Persephone & Rama Kandra. Probably more.
Those are Neo's possible reactions...
The Merovingian is not a former One. The Oracle says he's one of the oldest of us , he himself says he's a trafficker of information (it is his purpose)... which is why he always talks about cause and effect, and he also tells Neo that he survived his predecessors. The Merv is just a powerful program from the machine world... nothing more.
The supporting facts for the argument that the Mero is a former anomaly:
Neo's apartment number in M1 is 101, while the suite for the restraunt the Mero's in is also 101.
Peresophone says that he used to be like Neo.
His name is derrived from a known line of kings called the Merovingians, who believed that they were direct decendants of Jesus. Neo's name and character are full of symbolisms relating him to Jesus. Example is "Anderson" is derrived from a greek word "Andros" meaning "Man" so "Anderson"'s interpretation would be Son of Man, which is one manner of refering to Jesus.
The Oracle says that the Mero is "One of the oldest of us" but does not say that he is from the first matricies. She also says he's very powerful and dangerous. We know that Smith has the ability to copy himself over any "shell" (program or human connected to the matrix), who's to say that an anomaly didn't figure this out and try it giving birth to the Merovingian as we know him in an attempt to live a life of greed and power for eternity?
Perosephone's name comes from old mythology. She was the daughter of Zues and Demeter who was kidnapped by Hade's and taken into the underworld. This is what gave way to the seasons according to the greeks. Anyway, if the Mero copied himself, and Perosephone against her will, then this would be a simularity to the greek story.
short comings in the theory
101 is used in many other places, freeway 101, the train loop, etc. Also, the number 5 in binary is 00110101, Neo was the fifth version, but the Mero could not be the fifth version at the same time.
Perosephone's comment is void because it's also stated that she came into the matrix with the Mero, even if the Mero could copy himself over another program's shell, we have no reason to believe that it would be possible to copy another person over a program shell. Also, she would not be such an emotional vampire if she were, along with the fact that it destroys the Mero's link to Jesus.
The Mero's name in of itself sugguests that he exists as a direct result of the anomaly, but this does not mean he is a copy of a previous anomaly.
More plausable theory
The Merovingian was created after the programming for choice was inserted into the matrix that we know today. He was created as an attempt to control this choice, making choice to be more of an illusion, to eliminate the occurence of the anomaly. So his direct relation is that his father would be the anomaly, and the mother would be the Matrix since it is the anomaly that creates the necessity for his program, and the Matrix created it.
However, he, obviously, would have failed at this (and did as we know) because you cannot control choice. You can eliminate it, but you can never tell someone they have a choice, give them options, and then not have that choice exist - it's a paradoxial element.
This would explain why the Mero is powerful, why he is a trafficer of information (you need information in the midst of choice), why he is exhiled (his program failed and he is not needed), and why he does not believe in choice, but, rather, causality. It supports all the statements between characters and symbolism in reguards to the Mero, and it explains why things like the 101 binary would be the same - he is destined to cross paths with the anomaly judging by the choices given to the anomaly - Neo.
So, is the Mero a previous anomaly? No. Is he directly related to an anomaly? Yes.
Neo's the sixth anomaly...
My apology!!! I knew that - I had five on the brain again..there were five before him...still works because five is still in play. The Mero delt with Neo's 5 predocessors....
The 101 could mean something else. In part 1, the 101 is seen on Neo's door (and 303 is seen with the room Trinity is in, and Trinity is 3), the 101 is seen on the floor of the Merovingian, but the Merovingian is not seen when the number is seen (Neo is). And about the 101 on the train; where is the train going? To where Neo is. I think the 101 may just be around representing Neo.
don't forget that 101 is a number from literature as well...in '1984', Room 101 was the 're-education' room, so to speak, the place where your entire perception of reality is changed...one can say that, after Le Vrai, the entire perception of reality in the movie is changed...
NO......Merv is a program
program=NOT THE ONE!!!!
Begun the cold war has.
101 also looks like lol....lol.
He is more like a program to research into Human's curiosity. Always wanting to know HOW things happen. Hence the reason he is so powerful - because it is his purpose to find out why things happen and the reason he knows of them.
If you were thinking that i was saying that the Mero was the one, I wasn't. I stated arguements for both sides, as well as my theory that his creation is a direct result of the anomaly as a means to controls what happens.
You made a nice point, but it doesn't explain some things about his character - like why he's an exhile... However, it works quite well with my theory and together they support each other even more...
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