Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Let me tell you guys what just happned to me on AOL.

I was in a Matrix chat room where most of the people in there were saying the M3 sucked Major Balls.

When I asked them why it sucked they didn't have a real good responce to my question.

As some of them gave their reasons for why it sucked, I was giving the correct anwsers to their points.

I was LMAO cuz they were giving points about M3 that was anwsered in M2, or even M1.

Once they saw that I would not give them an inch, they began to say I sucked! LOL!! Also when I told them to come here for a real discussion about the trilogy they said that this Forum was not imformative! O_o

NOT INFORMATIVE??

All we have done for months was tear apart the 1st & 2nd movies. IMO I feel that the members of this forum know more about the movies than the average matrix fan.

I tell ya, Its really sad that so many people saw the Trilogy and still didn't get it.

Sheesh it seems like most of the dopes were just looking for Big explosions and huge fight scenes. Man the total concept of the trilogy went right over their tiny heads.

I guess I shouldn't expect alot from a bunch of people that enjoyed taking the blue pill?

Do you even listen to yourself?
They say they didn't like the movie. And you give them shit?
You are a smack head.

Just because you liked it doesn't mean other will or do. Many "get it" but don't like it. The reviews are HORRIBLE for the movie, and most of the movie reviewers understand the movie. It is just their opinion that it is bad. Of those that like the movie, very, very few think it is great. Almost all say it is a big let down from the prior movies.

Get off your high horse and put its dick up your ass, Mother Superior.

his point was they didnt understand it.. thats the reason a lot of people dont like it, because they simply didnt comprehend it all the way..

Tshirt for one I was not giving them shit. And two you had to be there.

I'm not on a high horse. I was just stating that they hated the movie for all the wrong reasons.

Their opinion is just that an opinion. But facts are facts.

They were abusing other members who really wanted to have a good discustion about the latest movie. They wouldnt let they get a good word in edge wise.

So I asked them why it sucked.

So as they started to give there anwsers about the movie I hit them with some of the facts that went on in M1 and M2, because they were way off base.

Tshirt I just love how you came in here and accused me of being on a high horse, when you didnt even know the true details about the chat room conversation ( My last post was just an over vire of the whole conversation).

I don't go around blowing peoples doors off just because they have an opinion that may be different than my own. I do however try to put a stop to mean spirited people from harrassing other on line. And what better way of doing that is with alittle dose of truth.

IMO Tishirt you were off base in your last post.

Urot

I don't get how someone cannot get it (although I don't know many who spend their time picking apart details like those of us in this forum -- Jesus I'm glad I found this place!! LoL )

I can only assum that most people do what this guy who was interviewed by the local papers said:


Just an action film with a SCI-FI twist?!?

WTF is he smoking??!! But then, most people I have ever talked to have this point of view!! I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. It was a conclusion, and a good on at that! But some prick put me in a bad mood after it was over 'cause he started in about how horrible it was. Like you, I asked him why it was so bad, and the best answer he could give me was "It just was! There was no story line and it ran to fast!" When I pointed out that the storyline was built directly into the first two movies (whereas most trilogies seem to be stand-alone movies with the same characters and 75% of the same plot and script) he just blew me off.

I have come to accept the fact that it will only get bad reviews from people who are not devoted to the methods, details, and metaphorical references built into the movies, and, that since this movie was designed to be the final chapter, it's not going to help. Most people are used to a movie having a definate beginning and a definate end, these three do not, and, even as the set goes, Matrix was the character building, plot layout, and design basis. Reloaded was the body of the work, the suspense building, and the insight. While Revolations was the climax and the conclusion. If you're only going to watch one, watch the first one...otherwise you need to see all three.

Poor Korri....I don't know whether to be happy for her or sad for her... She got her wish - Trin is dead....but she lost her lover.... *sigh*

Okay UROT. I'll bite. Answer a few questions for me. And please keep them as simple as you can. You sound VERY intelligent, so try to make it understandable for us tiny heads.

1) From what source does NEO have his tremendous powers in the real world? Decipher the Oracle's ramblings, if you will.

2) If the Architect does not lie (like humans) - why did he give the impression that the ORACLE was not the mother of the matrix. And don't give me this 'she was beneath him' bull. He's 100% logic, supposedly without emotion. Any emotion betrays his true logical nature. I'm sure you have a reasonable explanation

3) Do you honestly think the final fight scene was better than the burly brawl - or some of the chase scenes in the original? Lots of flying into each other and fist fights in mid air. How 'bout seeing it from THEIR perspective. Now that would've rocked.

4) So Persephone was just for sex appeal. Another dumbed-down character. But this trilogy ended-up being full of shallowness. Maybe the online game will make up for things. Too bad the movie didn't

good luck

Metamorphisis I agree with you post 100% .

The WB's left the storyline open ended because the story will pick back up next sunner in the online game.


I think Korri is going to have a cow when she finds out that neo is dead, Well his body anyway. His essence is still in the matrix. As the oracle stated they will see him again one day.

REVOLUTIONS WAS THE WORST MOVIE EVER! it left so many unanswered questions and had a sad exuse for an ending! im sorry but i wanted to see neo "rewrite the matrix as he saw fit" to quote morph, not go out all jesus like and wither away like a little pussy. sorry i just wanted it to be the best movie ever and it wasn't so now im more mad than the devil on a bad day!

Neo didn't get his power from any source in the real world. He got his power from the matrix. For an overview of how this works please view my theory (as I think it's the most plausable and self standing explination for how Neo can see after he was blinded, stop the sentinals at the end of M2, and do the things he can do in M3). Just PM me if you have any questions about it. You can find it here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17453



He didn't give the impression that the Oracle wasn't the Mother. That was your interpretation of his sarcasm. Think about it a minute though. The Oracle is a program that, much like the Architect, can read the code of all those inside. So, in effect, she can read Neo's thoughts and reactions and inturpret them at a rate much faster than most of us could imagin. She just appears to predict the future, but everything is always only discussed in methods of probability, with sugguestions of what choice to make.



That is pure opinion. I think the fight scene you are refering to is only a metaphore for how powerful Smith had actually become just to try to balance out the anomaly, and, it is VERY remenicent of the first movie's fight scene with Smith in the train station.



Again, this is pure opinion. Not a factual statement. Indeed there is a lot more to the Mero and Persophone than what we see in these movies, and it was disappointing that there wasn't more about them. However, to include them in the movie much longer would have led to needing more movies than just the three. And that's just a start. We know nothing of their past or their future, only of their roll in the events that played out with Neo and the crew. That does not make them "dumbed-down" by any means, but it does leave room for gathering this information elsewhere, perhaps there will be a movie or two involving the Merovingian as the main character? Now THAT I think would be interesting!!

good luck

Ok here I go vizman.



She stated that the power of the one transends both worlds. The code he carried gave him the abilty to connect with the machines in and out of the matrix. that is why he stated he could feel them, and also why he could see Smith under banes flesh. Since the human body in m,ade up of eletrical signles it would be very ez to beome a self contained system, like neo was. The oracle knew that she that is why she was giving him food to eat. that food was a level of control. If you noticed the oracle stated that the arc's job was to make balance, her job was to make things unblanced. She is the ying to the arc's yang. the sameting was said of neo and Smith.



I just gave you part of the anwser in the last question. The two prgrams(The Arc and Oracle) are equales( There are world religions that state Jesus and statan are equles. Brothers infact.). In away the dynamic of satan and jeus could be used.

Lest just say God is the Machine leader. He controles the real worls and the Matrix. The Architech would be considered Jesus. He has control of the martix , but is not the only program in athority. This is where the Oracle comes in. She is just as Powerful as the Arc, with one exception. She will bend the rules when need be. The Arc always follows the rules.

So if you looked at it this way The Arc would be Jesus and The oracle would be Satan. Both bound by rules, but given the power to control the day to day function of the matrix. Now i know your say WTF? But think about it. The Arc is still a part of the system I.e doing the Machines leaders will (a.k.a God for this example), while The oracle Is not. She is an exiles program witch means she's not a part of the system, Kinda like Satan. If you remember satam is an exile too.

Now I said all of that to get to this point. The Arc is bound by rules as i stated before. His rules are abit different from the oracles. He must obide by the argreement that was made between the Machine leader and Neo. The humans would go free and the war would be over if he won the fight with Smith i.e taking care of The machine leader's problem.

Unlike humans The Arc cant lie and go back on a promise. That why She (the Opracle) asked him is the agreement still on, to unplug the humand that wanted to live in the real world. He stated yes, because he knew the oracle didnt trust him.

I find it kinda funny that the WB"s painted The oracle as controling in this film. She contoled Smith, Neo and Seraph in this film. She controled Neo and seraph with the cookies and candy, And Smith with her ablitiy to see his future. Neo knew the food was a level of control, thats why he didnt take it from here, cuz he didnt trust her anymore. So what did she do? She gave the cookies to seprah (IMO to keep him on her side). Remember Mero called him Judas, reveiling that he was once on his side.

I really hope they give more details about that in online game.



IMO no the final fight scenes were not better that the Bury brawl, or some of the chase scenes. But hey thats only my opinion.



No she was not there just for sex appeal. IMO Her character was there as a form of deception to keep the audiance guessing about the Arc's statements. If you remember from M2 she stated that the Mero was not always like he is today. IMo again i think they both were good progrand that did there jobs well, but when faced with the chioce of deletion or exile, they choose exile.

Over all the course of time they both became bitter and corrupt. The Mero began to cheat on her with other female programs, so she started to used her gifts in a negative way. In essence, she beacme an emotional vanpire inorder to fill the void in here life. Again this is just my opintion about Persephone. I guess they will give more details about her and the Mero in the New game thats coming out soon.

How was it a sad exuse for an ending exactly? The movie was written as a complete conclusion, not a fantasy world ending where people live happily ever after. The movie never gave the assumptions for a happily ever after.

Neo could "rewrite the matrix as he saw fit" -- just not as what you expected. That's because Morpheus's story about the prophecy was a century old legend, after that much time facts get warped. Neo's character understood that self-sacrifice was the only way to save things. Sometimes there is more to life than blow it up and party. I think the ending put the movie into a very real context.

Neo's "Jesus" connection has been very relevant since the first movie anyways! I could use just his name to come up with a strong analogy, but it's been discussed hundreds of times before, do a search. If you still can't find it, I suppose I'll have to find it for you, just PM me if you need it handed over.

I fear that if you didn't like this movie, you never really understood what the trilogy was about to begin with.

They left it open for an online game? What kind of bullshit is this? What percentage of people play video games? I bet if you did your research youll find that 80% are teenagers. So these days, playing a video game is a prerequite in order to understand and to recieve an ending? Not to mention the Animatrix. Next time the Wachowski's do a movie, it should limited to people 21 and under.

Italian

They concluded it well enough that the three movies can stand in their own right. I'm sorry but you've been a downer about ALL THREE movies as long as I've known you! If you're so pessimistic about it, why choose to see it? If all you are going to do is ***** and complain, why have anything to do with it? It is your choice to play the game or not, you just must infer your own ending to it if you are still lost after these three movies. No offense, it just bothers me when people go out of their way to ***** when there is no point to it and it just pisses people off who DID enjoy it!

Thats really untrue. If you look at the atari, colocovision and Nes generations. There are more adults playing Games these days. I'm 32 and I have a sh*t load of online games. Not to mention a boat load of consoles too.


I really have to disagree with you on that one dude.

Im simply stating how I feel , Im entitled to my opinions. Why should this be a forum soley for the Matrix fanatic to PRAISE the hell outve a junk movie?

And I havnt been a downer, the whole time. I loved M1, my favorite movie all time. Im a mildly smart guy, I asked a lot of questions about M2 and you people helped out a lot. I dont believe movies should be that confusing, they went overboard. I gave M2 a "chance" hoping M3 would knock my socks off... so now, the results are in and aside from M1, everything else SUCKED.

A note to Mr and Ms Wachowski : .... KEEP THE FRIGGEN MOVIE IN THE MOVIE THEATRE next time.

Just because you play video games, doesnt mean the number isnt less than 80%. You do know theres millions upon millions of kids playing video games out there right>?? Lets see some statistics, the overwhelming majority are kids, guaranteed.

Dude what the hell are you talking about? I play half-life's Team fortress classic and counter strike. Most of the members i know online are in their 30s and 40s, some even in their 50s.

Just because the polls shows a large percent are kids, dosent mean the adult numbers are not as high. Most adults dont really participate in the polls, but they do buy the games.

Hey, Wiz, I'm still not clear on one thing - the architect said that zion was detroyed 5 times before, does he mean in actuality destroyed and repopulated or in terms of a simulation mean to loop the anomaly so he could minimize it.

And just WHAT does Smith mean when he calls the Oracle 'mom' na dhow was it explained that her appreance changed?

Italian

We're not here to praise so much as we are to inturpret. The Wakowski's didn't make this movie to be just another movie. It was supposed to be an artful insight into the philosophies of our time and a very look at the nature of reality itself. I am glad that we helped you with an understanding of M2, however, Revo was written strictly as a conclusion, there was nothing for it to stand by itself with, which is why they released them both so close together.

Personally I think that the literary, philosophical, and metaphorical references made throughout the trilogy to make it one of the greatest movies of our time, and, I am not suprised at those who are "disappointed" in it because history has shown us that many of the movies that we consider to be some of the greatest classics were let-downs in their own right to the public. It was only after time and inturpretation that people began to understand of these movies. Thus, it seems to me, that the greatest movies are those that make you think, which this trilogy definately does!

Here are statistics on video gamers:


I can site more references, but do I really need to? You're mistaken, we are in the age group the Matrix was directed at. We are the video game generation.

The Architect ment that Zion was destroyed, physically, 5 times prior to Neo, and then repopulated by 23 individuals to rebuild it and maintain a level of control over the system. Probability and statistics shows that the anomaly WOULD occure again, and so the machine world needed Zion to be able to remove the anomaly from the system. It was just a delicate balance.

When Smith calls the Oracle "Mom" he is refering to her as the mother of the matrix. That has nothing to do with why her appearance changed. Her appearance is changed because she helped Neo, and because she helped Neo, her shell program was terminated (I believe by the Merovingian in ETM, but I've not had a chance to play it yet) so she had to find a new shell to operate from.

Any other ??'s

I have some sources too, According to this, I would say that means about 63% are less than 24years old. Im off a bit, but we ARE talking about console games right? Unless ETM is avail on PC, and I havnt heard that.

Anyway, point is gone, Praise the Matrix, Praise ! lol

owned and FYI, ETM is available on PC. and TMO will be too.

1. Zion was totaly destroyed 5 times then rebuilt by the one and the members he selected from the matrix.

2. The oracle was stated to be the mother of the matrix in M2, but it goes beyond that.

Imo I think she is the one who created The Smith virus. As stated by the Oracle herself In M3. The Arc's job is to keep balance, while it is her job to make things unblanced. It was Smith's job once he became an exiled program to create havoc with in the matrix. In other words to make it unbalanced. He was evil and didnt follow the rules anymore.
While Neo in the end followed the rules, and went back to the source.

In a way it could be summed up like this.

The Arc & Neo followed the Rules.

The Oracle and Smith did not.


Now as far as The Oracles New Avatar or skin. If you played Enter The Matrix. You would have seen that her code was stolen By Mero, so she had to get a New avatar or skin, to put it simple.

yes, Merv was behind this. (he used the termination code he got from Rama-Kandra in Reloaded)

interesting theory, that would make Smith a sort of necessary evil, in order to obtain peace between humans and machines. i guess there's more to revolutions than i thought at first (i liked it, but was kind of disappointed coz i didn't really get all of it at once gonna see it again saturday though)

Right Ry.

Her shell was changed because Gloria Foster DIED.. the reason in the movie sucked, they were better off not even mentioning it.

Thanks for the quick reply... sure, I have some other questions if you know them.

The Architect said that those who want out will be unplugged - how will they know if they're in the matrix.

If Zion gets smoked everytime, why do all of a sudden the machines decide to make a truce?

Also, what is exactly Smith, was he programmed by the architect to balance out Neo (I guess they just lost control of him)

DID Smith ASSIMILATE EVERYONE in the Matrix and were they all freed after?

Is the master machine actually the architect?

When a new Zion is built, do they reboot the Matrix or just keep it running?

Is the one meant to set the rest of the Zionites free - in M1, Morpheus spoke of a man born inside the Matrix who shaped the world as he saw fit, was this Neo's predecessor?

Sorry to keep bombarding, but so far, you seem like the only reliable person on this matter in the whole damn forum

I'm pretty sure the ORACLE designed agent Smith - after all remember M2, Smith came by right after the oracle left - in the exact same park. I think he was designed to test Neo's mettle or something along those lines.

Italian

One of the statistics on video gamers I gave you was straight from the Census poll!! And yes ETM is available on the PC - but, console games are the popular choice for anyage. Saga Dreamcast and Sony playstation console systems were designed for the 18 to 30 age group. I used to work at a Local Gamers store and this was a very big point that all the Saga and Sony reps wanted to make, along with the majority of the literature and the game ratings..

You don't have to praise the matrix just to admit you're wrong about the statistics. If you didn't like it then you didn't like it. However I think that the instance of the Oracle having a new body was a very interesting twist in the plot.

Though it is sad that Gloria Foster died -- she so liked candy.

Perhaps this will help

i love it!!!!

ok, the mother of the matrix, AKA Oracle, did not design Smith, but he is acknowledging the fact that she is the Mother of the current matrix, the reason Smith is Smith...in that respect, it is her fault, however, Oracle says that "he is you, your opposite, your negative, the result of the system trying to balance the equation" and then she says the Archie is trying to "balance the matrix"...this meant, to me, that Archie created Smith, created the "cataclysmic system crash" to keep the one in line...and, i dont think Neo is dead. Also, it seems to me that Sati is more powerful than other programs, she can change the Matrix itself...

The Oracle made the Architect promis to release the others. Not that they had a choice. Most likely it will be done gradually by members of Zion hacking into the matrix and slowly showing people the truth.



I have to answer this in two parts -- the first part being that the machines always wanted peace, but the humans would not let them have it. For the details on this you must watch the Animatrix.

The second part is that Smith has become a virus. He is running through-out the Matrix and would soon infect the machine's network and their beings, since they are integrated into the matrix.

So Neo says that he will stop Smith if they accept Peace. It is beyond machines to lie, persay, but they also understand that the humans are fighting the same fight that the machines were orriginally fighting -- just for their freedom, and that their numbers, and the lessons learned, could be enough to allow for peace. Why continue the game if there is no need to?



No. He was programmed simply as an agent, but, when Neo "destroyed" him in M1 it caused a shift in the Smith program. This can be taken from quotes from both Smith and the Architect:

Smith: "I don't know how it happened, perhaps some part of you copied over me...."

Architect: "Precisely, as you are undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations."

He became more like a virus that is the result of Neo's mathmatical anomaly. When he destroyed Smith, Smith became another variable in the mathmatical equation that is now trying to balance itself out.

This is actually two questions, but we are led to believe that the answer to both of them is Yes - except for Neo, it is strongly suggested in the movie that he is, indeed, dead.



No. The architect is an AI program on the Machine Mainframe. He lives in the computer network and has no form other than binary code outside of the construct of the matrix. (Notice I said construct -- that's because when Neo visited him, they were not inside the actual Matrix)



This is a tricky one. There are two running theories on this. One says that the matrix is "rebooted" and it starts over at 1900 to run for the next 100 year cycle. I find this hard to believe because, as Trinity said, "The matrix cannot tell you who you are." That's not the only reason, but the simplest reason behind my view. They would have to reprogram everyone's minds to believe that they were in 1900 instead of 1999.

An accepted theory is that time is of no relivance inside the matrix, and that, because of that, no one notices that the time continues to repeat (a much simpler solution than reprogramming everyone for the year 1900 -- since you only have to warp the sense of time). I think that's very plausable.

Honestly I have another theory that is beyond the scope of your question because it is only a portion of a much larger theory that has nothing to do with this thread or any of your questions. If you're interested, send me a PM. But I think these answers should satisfy you.



Again, a multi-part answer for a multi-part question. I'll start with what Morpheus spoke of.

Morpheus was telling Neo about the prophecy in M1. At that time, no on knew of Neo's predecessors. So the man Morpheus spoke of was the previous anomaly, who was born inside the matrix, but went through the motions much the same way Neo did. He wasn't able to just manipulate things and set people free. Think about it, wouldn't he have tried to set EVERYONE free? And how did he realize that his powers were part of a computer program? When he set himself free, who rebuilt his atrophied muscles? -- No, nothing more than a previous anomaly simular to Neo.

So, the man Morpheus spoke of was the most recent of Neo's predecessors. And he could manipulate the Matrix in much the same way Neo could.

But Zion was a form of control for the machines to protect themselves from this anomaly. The anomaly, or the one if you prefer, was only ment to believe he was here to set the people free. In the end, he was the ultimate desicion maker in killing Zion and rebuilding it, or killing Zion and risking the possibility of killing all humans.

So, no he was not there to set them free as the prophecy spoke of.



LoL It's not a problem, though I must say I'm not the only capable person here. The flattery is much accepted though, as sometimes I feel a little ignored! If you would like me to answer any more questions about general details, or to elaborate on things I've said, just PM me by clicking on the little PM button on the bottom of my post. You may also confuse a lot of people calling me Wiz - that would be my title. Meta, Metamorphisis, Wizard, or Wiz -- they all work for me though.

Really couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread, so apologies if someone has already mentioned this.

How many times on this forum, and others i might add do we have to listen to this:

"U didn't like the movie? Thats because u didn't understand it."

That is probably the most childish and embarrasing comeback ever. It IS possible for someone to FULLY understand the Matrix movies and NOT like them. Fact.

They forgot the word 'Is' before 'for'

Fact: 75% of the people who did not like the movie did not understand it.

Fact: the other 25% do not like philosophy, counter culture, questioning authority, or deeper meanings.

Fact: Those percentages, while made up, do hold some truth to the fact that everyone who argues they do not like the movie cannot give any logical reason why they didn't like it -- or argue plot-holes that do not exist.

Fact: I have yet to hear someone who didn't like the movie say: I understand all the hidden meanings, metaphores, quasi-biblical and literary references, and psesedue-philosophy/psychology/socialigy -- and "I still think it blows".

Fact: Those of us who say "You didn't like it because you didn't understand it" give supporting facts for every detail, whereas I have yet to see someone who didn't like the movie give anything but pure opinion.

Fact: Your arguement saying that it's childish to say someone didn't (or most likely didn't) understand the movie is childish in itself.

Opinion: If you didn't like it, and you're only going to ***** about it, then why bother coming to a place where you know everyone is going to say "You must not have understood it"?

Opinion: Why bother trying to argue opinions in the first place? No one ever wins and it just makes those of you who don't like it sound like a bunch of freaks who have nothing better to do than whine.

Opinion: If all some one is going to do is *****, moan and complain, then why waste the time and energy? Don't you have something better to do than to convince us that your opinion is the right one?

Opinion: You must not have thought it was to bad otherwise you wouldn't subject yourself to arguements where people are going to tell you that "You must not have understood it" and try to help you grasp the meaning better through arguing facts and references with supporting facts, citing where those facts are, logic, reason, and the like. So if you didn't think it was to bad to subject yourself to that why bother trying to convince everyone else that it was bad -- let them make up their own damn minds.

Opinion: If you really hated the movie and are here to convince people not to see it, or that it sucked, thus forcing your own opinion on them, then you must be afraid that you are going to be in the minority, so you must convince others it was bad too. In doing so you only display your lack of understanding because the movie had strong anti-conformist and strong freedom of choice themes, whereas you would be trying to get people to conform to your view simply based on opinion, and you are thus taking away their freedom of choice to decide for themselves what they thought.

This is why I am here. I am the eventuality of a probability that there will be pressure on those who have not seen the movies to have a pre-disposition that it sucked. My purpose is to balance out the equation; to give freedom of choice back to those who have not see the movie and collected the information needed to make an informed opinion for themselves. And as long as there is a single breath in my body I will not give up this fight, and I welcome those who want to question me and my motives.

Meta, you krack me up. Movies are made for the masses, not the 5% that gives a krap about the ultra exxagerated "Deep" philosophical, hidden, religious meanings. This is the same 5% that likely bought the comics and animatrix's , played the video game, etc. Again, the millions of people are supposed to go thoughall these hurdles just to fully understand whats going on>? Thats total bull.

Italian

You seem to be in the minority, because the majority of those whom I know, even at 30, still collect comic books, especially the old marvel, or the Crow series, and, yes, the matrix.

Movies are a format for entertainment, but the writers determin who they want to gear it for, and the brothers did not intend this to be some half-wit movie, they wanted it to push at our very definitions of reality. Required reading material before the cast ever read the script included books like Jean Baudrillard's bood "Simulacra and Simulation" as well as eastern philosophy like the Tao, and also, philosophers who toy with the very concept of reality like Rene Descartes. Now, I may be one of the 2% of the population who's read the 15th century author Dante's Devine comedy about the levels of hell, and the journey through purgatory to heaven, who's read the Tao, Rene Descartes, and Simulacra Simulation before the first movie ever came out -- which gives me a good head start -- and I may be the only person here who's read any of that at all. But my point is that the majority of us on this forum were able to pick these movies apart, and disect the meanings behind them -- WHICH all literary and Motion Picture works are for. There are actually deeper meanings in movies like Rambo III -- if you are willing to disect it. That is what story telling is for, but somehow in our mind bending society that got lost in the translation and we have become a society of narssisistic, gluttoniful, prideful, sloths who expect things to be passed to us only for the pure entertainment shock-factor value, and if the deeper meanings cannot be spelled out blatently for all to see, and it can't fit into a 30 second sentence to accomadate our ever shrinking attention spans, then it's lost on us. Why would you want to fall victim to that?

Metamorphisis - Replied to PM.

IMO Theres no doubt this tale of the Matrix is a work of art, but isn't it true that every person can take a different meaning from any work of art? Two people can look at the same painting/ read the same book etc and get completely different meanings?
Also there are different degrees of understanding, some people may have no comprehension of the true meanings of the Matrix and just enjoy the action, others might kinda get an idea of whats going on, and then we build up to the level of understanding being reached in these forums!

Well said that man.

As i've said to MM in PM, i know people who haven't got a f****** clue whats going on in the Matrix movies and they still love them. I s'pose what i am saying is this:

There will be people who DO understand the Matrix movies and LIKE them.

There will be people who DON'T understand the Matrix movies and LIKE them.

There will be people who DO understand the Matrix movies and NOT LIKE them

There will be people who DON'T understand the Matrix movies and NOT LIKE them.

You see, it doesn't matter what group you belong to because you are an individual and you can make you own mind up. I personally am in the top group (despite minor reservations about Revs) and i have absolutely no problem with anyone else in the other groups. Its all opinion anyway.

You know what they say about internet forums : "Its all opinions and assholes."

The reason the machines stoped the attack is because Neo stated that he wanted to make Peace.

If you noticed when Neo go to the Machine City, The Machine leader had an emotional out burst at him. The Leader stated that "WE DONT NEED ANYTHING FROM YOU!"

Then Neo say Let me say what I have to say. Then after that you can do what you want. You can even kill me.

Neo goes on to say that he wants to make peace with the Machines.

If you remember 1 & 2nd Res the Machines wanted peace from the start, but the humans were not willing to give it a try.

Yes the Machines are still pissed at mankind, but they do feel that peace can be achived. So they let Neo fight Smith in the place of the Humans in Zion. That is why the Sentinels stopped their attack.

When Neo won, the war was over. The Machine leader kept his side of the deal. He was also impressed with Neo. That He took Neo's body away for an (impiled) Special bural.

Again if you really look at the Machines. They really wanted to get along with the humans. Remember the first Matrix was created as a paradise. Even though they had captured the humans, they still wanted to make them comfortable in a way.

Problem was they kept waking up. The machines knew that they had to keep them asleep, so they redid the Matrix based on the humans violent nature.

Now that the war is over, it will be interesting to see how the storyline plays out in the new online game.

Thank you Dundarz! I think you managed to explain what i was trying to say! Im with you in the grouping, well, at least i think i understand them! Theres still some bits im working on!

I think a big reason alot of people are dissapointed with Revs is because of all the hype, i mean this has been one of the most hyped up films i can remember, who the heck is gonna live up to that?

Now I'm gonna give U shit a$$ hole.
U are an opinionated prick with a giant ego, and ur ideas about horse FU**ING are probably ones that have been taken in to practice by u.
So try not to give US shit, and get off YOUR high horse, and stick YOUR d!ck up its ass.

I know omega. I was just coming from the stand point of "Duelism". That way I stated that there are world religons that believe that Satan and Jesus are equals.

The Arc + The Oracle.

Neo + Smith.

She may not have created the virus, but she did have a hand in promoting it.

How did she promote the virus? I kinda see the reasons why she might have, but how?

I have to go t work now, bit I will say this. She knew everyone wold have to get taken over by smith.

If you remember her candy was a form of control, so neo didnt take it, but she gave the cookies to seraph. Imo that cookie had code in it for him not to fight smith.

Also she sent him (seraph away inorder for smith to make his move.

I will explain more when I get back in here later.

Okay, this thread already exists. The "Why oh why", so I'll merge the two.

i dont really no if i liked the movi or not. i definetly didnt think it was as good as the second. i thought the ending was horrible. first of all, they shouldnt have made neo blind. that was jus plain stuid. second of all, i hate how trinity died. i thought she and neo were gonna liv. and finally, it was stupid how neo had to die to kill smith. neo is "The One". he shoulda been able to kill him without dyin himself. but on the other hand, all the matriz movies were great except this one jus didnt meet my expectations.

I think what Spock said in star trek II sums up why neo sacrificed himself "Sometimes the needs of the many out way the needs of the one". Neo still lives in all of us

[
NOT INFORMATIVE??

I tell ya, Its really sad that so many people saw the Trilogy and still didn't get it. Sheesh it seems like most of the dopes were just looking for Big explosions and huge fight scenes. Man the total concept of the trilogy went right over their tiny heads.


Funny, all I saw were big explosions and anti-climatic fight scenes

Omega

Only holding out for those who have not seen it yet!!!

**Walks up to Ex Deux Didnotlikedarevos**

I only came here to say what I have to say. After that you can do what you want with me, I won't fight you.

Priceless!

Omega did you notice Neo was not seeing in code after a hit like that?

I guess Smith Beat the code out of him!! LL!

Big pappa Smith took Neo out to the back shed for some one on one counseling with a leather belt! Hehehe! Neo was getting tossed around like an old rag doll!

Omg I did not shed one tear in revolution but when I read tshirt's post on this first page I have to say, man you are so right *sniff*....hehehe



FACE IT ppl it's a total letdown, you say ppl dont get it hah!. Whats to get about a watered down semi-conclu.....woe that's giving it to much, miniscule conclusion. The critics get it, they eat up this lovey-dovey "believe" bullshit and guess what things are'nt turning up peachy are they. You say ppl here know more huh, ok then reloaded seemed to have gotten a good responce look at the mixed responce for revolutions. Why dont you guys step it up a level and start to realize, start to get IT but, you know what it's ok you choose to "believe" and I "believe" all the ppl who liked this movie will be paying a subscription fee for the matrix on-line.

Wach. Bros. Imperssion : Muahahahahahaha!!!! money, money, money!!!!! Chumps their all chumps!!. *running to the bank with money spilling out of their pockets*


Hey you guys never know if one of the wach. Bros. has another bad split with a former wife maybe they will make another matrix movie.

Hey DARKVIRUS check out this thread by Celsius.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f42/t17612.html

DV

Being closed minded and unwilling to make inturpretations is no excuse for not liking the movie. There is a lot to understand, but if you don't want to think - then read the link that Urot just posted and be satisfied with that. Your opinion matters not.

Urot

Nice.

Hey well thanx there big guy, allow me to crap on your sunshine guy.

Im sorry but i thought i was watching a movie...not an anime. I thought i was watching a trilogy? you know begenning, middle and end. Thnx alot buddy but, that means nothing to me....if they are big fans of anime make a dam cartoon about it not a trilogy and then in every interview hype the hell out of a "blow your mind ending" so that ppl can spend their money to watch mediocre crap.

I have said this before and no-one has said anyting about this, they created their own hype. My head was filled by them and the producer so dont go blaming me.

Go ahead and buy the matrix, then while you're at it buy matrix revisited (money written all over it), then buy matrix reloaded, then wait for the special platinum series, hey while youre at it buy animatrix and hell go for enter the matrix also....guess what buddy who's got your money know not you. Oh wait there still room for more wait for the revolution special edition that will include cut scene's sop they can move that garbage off shelves and then....wait for it....wait for it..... the matrix on-line oh yes they truly do care about your money.....I mean their product.

Hey meta thanx for acknowledging the fact that your just another dollar symbol on the ignorant express. Im sure they appreciate your business.

My opinion seems to matter becuase i have backed it up in many threads while the ppl who seemed to have really liked the movie, their opinion's have been rather hollow (hey kinda like revolutions...go figure).

But thanx for stopping by meta and I hope you like getting reamed by the wac. money train.

*ching ching*

I'm pretty sure that she said "the people that want to get out", not "the people". The Matrix will allow the people of Zion to free people that don't accept the Matrix.

DV

Your arguements seem to be based mearly on opnions that answers were not given, and your only defense is insults. I've explained enough about this very subject in other threads to the people who have disliked it, most of which seem not to understand it, none of which have been able to support their views, and all of whom still appear to stand in the minority. So why should I bother typing all the stuff I've said before? Your opinion is your own, and your insults do not support your opinions. Insults, hatered, and discriminations come from a lack of understanding, openmindedness, and fear. Are you afraid that someone here actually understands and enjoys a movie that you seemingly cannot and are closed off to?

Why bother coming to a place where we discuss the meaning behind the movies if you're only going to complain about the movies?

it's a shame that to grasp the full story of the matrix, you have to play that god awful ETM game. What an absolute atrocity of a game.

If that's not a game that was made soley for the money, then I don't know what is.

I loved ETM and still play it from time to time, especially Vertigo.

Actually, I was surprised at how useful EtM was- I always assumed it only would say stuff explicity repeated in Reloaded but it really could be quite awkward to get some of the points without it.

But nevermind, it still WORKS without EtM, just you need it for close analysis.

Meanwhile, DV< your attitude is becoming very tiresome- cool it down.

Omega> nicely put. HARD-CORE FANS ALL THE WAY!!! w00t!!

DV> AS Omega said, this movie was not made for the casual movie-goer, this was a way for the Wachowskis to express, in multiple media forms, their ideas. Many other writers, directors, etc. put movies into games, toys, etc., however, theirs are directed at mindless masses who thrive on consumerism and mindless entertainment. While someone who knows nothing of philosophy or any religion besides their own could, in essence, enjoy the movie, it is directed at those who know about other religions, about other philosophies, or are willing to go out and actively participate in bettering themselves. I appluad the Waxhowski brothers for making this trilogy, because the core ideas, beliefs, values are acceptable by all. The fact that we go out of our way to research and find every peice, every clue, allows us to have a deeper understanding of the movies and life in general. If you didn't like the movie, that is acceptable, but don't tell me it has plot holes, an reprehensible plot, because, if all movies were like this, i would watch much more of them.

Omega

I applaud you!! Finally someone who's said what I've been saying:

DarkVirus and the rest of those who dislike the movie:
If you hate everything so much why are you here to b*tch and moan about it? You sound like a bunch of freaks who are so afraid of being in the minority.

Hate, Loathing, and discriminations come from a lack of understanding, openmindedness, and fear.

Are you afraid that you're going to be in the minority because you cannot grasp deeper philosophical relations and understand literary metaphors?

If you don't like it, find something better to do. This forum was made for analisys of the movies by those who enjoy them, not for bashing the movies and trying talk people out of seeing them. Let others make up their own damn minds.

Hmmm....it makes me wonder why ppl do that. Weren't fans in these forums? They can't even give good reasons why they didn't like it...funny! Nicky needs to get over it too!

I did not like Revolutions. I fully understood what was happening, I just did not understand why (when i say that I mean i dont understand why it was put in / remotely neccesary, no why it happened). Like the people who could walk on the ceiling, the french guy, the captains consant repeating of the phrase "god dammit!!", The whole Love is just a word/ karma is just a word bull shit. A lot of it was unneccesary and could have been told in a better way. But what is with the "love is jsut a word" crap? That makes NO sense. The wachowski bros are just trying to be profound and they are just trying to make money. And it isn't fair to say that people that aren't true fans only watched the 2nd and 3rd for the action scenes. Yes, the second did have one of the most amazing action sequences ive ever seen, but thats the ONLY reason I liked it. I hated reloaded, which, might I remind you, was full of action and fighting. But does that matter? No. It sucked anyway

Well DV you could never crap on me.

I wont even take the time to respond to your post in detail, because it has already been delt with by Omega, Jedi, and the others.

Hold on am i missing something here did ppl not say in the other thread they agree with me.....and if you guys are not reading your own post you are INSULTING ME!!!!.

What kind of ppl constantly use the same excuse "you just dont get it". That is the only thing you guys can throw at me and TRUST me you would know when im insulting you. From the get-go you Omega told me I dont get it, here we are again after my countless post and ppl siding with me here and there and you and the ppl who side with you are throwing the exact same thing my way.

Ppl who have posted that they do not like this installment have given many multiple reason's for not liking it and your constant answer is "you dont get it"...it's getting old. As for the reason why im here....i was here before revolutions and just because I do not think like you does not merit asking that question. I am here to be the the negative to your positive...I more or less knew you and the "usual suspects" would find some excuse and stick behind it, Im here to open the path for ppl to tell the other side of the story and not feel like they are out of place or feel like they are to stupid to understand a watered down matrix movie.

Accept it!, I am here, and I "play" along the rules so keep your eye on me and wait for that moment where you're able to get rid of me because i'll tell you one thing it's not happening. What rule have I broken? NOTHING to make someone push that report to moderators button. im allowed my opinion and as you can see I know my limits, which makes me a hard person to get rid of. Perhaps I would'nt be so negative if someone gave me something other than the same ol' tired excuse that i have been hearing since yesterday which personaly is a true insult because you obviously think you are smarter than the average person, that no-one can have a different opinion on this movie. Correct me if im wrong but this is a place to discuss the matrix movies positive or negative so lay off me and start throwing some real content my way.

This is for Jedi..

I enjoy your posts and I also respectfully disagree with your view of this movie as a success. BECAUSE it only cater's to the DIE-HARD ani-matrix/enter-the-matrix/watched M1/M2 50 times crowd... and the shoot-em-up bunch - it leaves the everyman scratching his head. So bravo, you got it. Most people want a little more information. It won't last in theatre's very long. They'll still make a killing, though... this weekend anyhow. When TROTK airs, watch this movie's money tank - DVD to follow. Still time to clean up this mess for the masses. I got an idea: maybe they could explain things in their own words in the DVD? Think it will happen? Why not, if everthing can be explained???? Will be interesting to find out where this rabbit hole leads... one things for sure, Morpheus sure was dumbed down in this movie. he probably couldn't find is .... won't use that 'hole' metaphore. Keeping it clean!

Dude what the f*ck are you talking about?

Nobody wants to get rid of you. That BS is all in your head.

Now as far as someone liking or not liking the trilogy is just a matter of an opinion.

If you like it fine. Give your reasons and move on. If you hate it State why, and be clear why you hate it.

Dont just say it sucked, or give some half-A$$ example that had nothing to do with the three movies.

We are not here to block individual thought. As I stated in this thread, I will fight for anyone's right to express their opinion. I never try to out talk anyone who has an opinion that differs from my own.

You on the other hand IMO have a chip on your shoulder about the whole topic.

Now I agree with Ushgarak when he said that your attitude is becoming very tiresome.


Dude you need to let the Anger go.....

I don't even think you see it.

There ya go Vizman you see they insult the commonfolk, but dont sell yourself short viz even they dont fully understand and still have questions of their own. I bought animatrix and as a gamer i would even come close to enter the matrix and yet Im supposed to fork over even more money to understand something that should be put out in the movie theatres...it's a marketing scheme and i did not fall for it in enter the matrix.

You may think you dont get it but in all reality viz there is not much to get. Do you know how deep reloaded was discussed here and some of these guys came up with things that would blow a persons mind away but i guess they are happy with this un-finished product. I had alot of respect for a lot of ppl here and because of the treatment, recycled answers and most importanly acceptance of this movie i have lost alot of that. What they dont seem to understand is that I did not dislike the entire movie go back and quote me on how I enjoyed the Zion battle but everything else fell short and not one of you guys who ponder so ddeply into what revolutions could have been can step up and say yes, yes it did come up short.

Urot: have i been giving half assed explanations.....look in the official thread read my first post, read the questions I still have. I have no anger towards these ppl that's were you're wrong...why would i waste my time with anger when it will not solve anything, I have been backing up my points of why i disliked this movie and all i get is "your ignorant, you dont get it" i guess you could say im growing tired, yes tired of hearing that.

DV can you post a link for me, so I can read it.

Also give me the name of the thread too.

Maybe I can help you.

DarkV - I appreciate the accolades. I also enjoyed the battle scenes. I havent' read all 100 plus post's here, but I have seen alot of high-and-mighty attitudes.
COME-ON-PEOPLE!!! Some LIKED THE MOVIE some DID NOT! No point in lowering to insults (although I admit, it is fun. So fire away. figuratively)
Granted, I did not like the movie in large part because questions were not answered to my liking. After reading some of Jedi's and others thoughts, I have learned some possibilities. And I thank you. But I also disliked the movie for the shallow character's and lack of additional characters that were interesting (the little girl was CUTE, but thats about it). There is NO amount of explanation that will explain this away.

...but I would of forgiven shallow characters if the BEAUTIFUL LOGIC PUZZLE the matrix had potential to be materialized in SOME fashion. Sadly, for me, neither was achieved with M3. I guess I'll go ahead and make my own sequel, but using cows rather than humans. Call it the MOOTRIX. Because for me, M3 was the BOOOOO-TRIX!

z time

DarkVirus

I have seen nothing but unintelligent disrespectful posts by you since I first signed up here, and you expect me to believe that you have some sort of intelligence to contribute to this forum? You b*tch incestently that we can only throw "Oh, well gee you just don't understand" at you like we've got our thumbs up our a$*es. When, infact, a great many of us, including myself, have explained this trilogy in great detail.

I myself have but only two questions about the movie, but I also understand why one of the answers was not given.

Question one is "Who is the Merovingian?" There are so many possibilities, but, I know why they did not elaborate. Between scenes being cut (Like the scene between Niobe and Ghost when the Logos needed a jump) and the fact that it would have taken atleast another movie, if not more, to go into the character developement on these characters that played no other part in this story than what you saw! Imagine where we'd be then, you'd be so upset that you spent money to see 10 movies instead of only 3!!! Exorcise your freedom of choice and don't watch it or have anything to do with it!

That leads me to my other question -- If you people wanted to see nothing but a mindless action movie, and you didn't like the first and/or the second Matrix movies, why did you think you would like the third? And why not go see something like "The Texas Chainsaw Massacure" "Underworld" Or "The Rundown"??

The Matrix trilogy, written in as a trilogy before 1996 as publicly stated by the Wakowskis and Warner Brothers, was not written as a mindless sci-fi action flick Terminator 3 rise of the mindless androids. It was written as a thoroughly deep movie begging at the fabric of our lives to decypher what it is that we are in all actuality looking for.

If you didn't like it, don't watch it and don't have anything to do with it...why waste your time? As many times as we've explained things you're obviously not going to listen and inturpret deeper meanings so live in a world of ignorance, one day you will regret it.

Vizman

No high and mighty attitudes here as far as I can see. I think that the majority of us are tired of hearing complaints about a movie that was not written to be "Stallone in Rambo 88: Man vs Machine" -- and DarkV has come across in only derrogatory mannors. Why should we have to listen to this? He's got access to the same information that we do, and if he doesn't like it and wants to talk about it, support it with facts. If we inform you that those facts are mislead, then be open minded and listen don't say no one's given you answers! I have not read one good arguement from a single person as to why the movie sucked so back. It was written solely as the last chapers of a novel, which means all the character developement is done, all the body of work building up to the climax was done, and the only thing left is the climax and conclusion. If you watch Revo with the mindset that it's a normal movie you will be disappointed just as if you picked up a novel and read just the last one third or less. You know what happens, you know who these people are, but with out the first two thirds it doesn't mean anything or make any connection.

What they were written as a trilogy in 1996!?...well thats news to me. From what I understand they were hoping to make a trilogy but did not know that far in advance that it would be such a hit so they wrote the first installment and went from there. Yeah you're absolutely right on that meta thats why i have gotten soooo much bad feedback in the last month and a half because everything i said has been negative . Now My opinion on this movie is negative because I feel I was let down. You have been another person from the get-go and here you are again insulting me because I do not think this movie was up to par.




Urot: go to the Official " i have seen revolutions thread" at the top and notice one thing I backed my points up and opened it up for discusion and BAM! right off the bat I get insulted by "you dont get it" and then i try again to add some more and BAM here it comes again (and again i might add) that i just dont get it. My questions are there and they are not anything anyone can help me with b/c there is no real answer for them but they are something's I would like to discuss.

Anyone who thinks I am angry at any member here is honestly wasting their time. I do not know you beyond this place so why would i waste my time being mad at any of you.....Im mad at the movie and this was a place to vent but, i get insulted and im not just gona sit there and take it im gonna go back and forth not angry of course becuase i find it fun and the whole time i sit here like this .



Did I hear someone say disrespectfull?...jee and you would be throwing compliments my way in that post huh? sooo you're saying im not entitled to my opinion and i need you to explain something to me so that im not ignorant...well if that's not an insult i dont know what is

DarkVirus



These aren't derrogatory remarks? And there's more, all said by you. I am simply stating facts. And yes, the Wakoski Bros approched Warner Brothers with a Trilogy. Warner Bros wasn't even sure about letting them direct, so they wrote Bound and released it in 1996. After that Warner aggreed to allow them to make and direct the first Matrix movie, the second and third were contingent on the success or failure of the first. The scripts were adapted to the success of the first, and spread into virtually 7 parts if you include the AniMatrix, ETM, the Comix, and the online game.

You've still posted no facts, and only superficial opinions and derrogatory remarks. That is not an insult that is an insight. I personally do not care if you did not like the movie, I'm tired of explaining things to people who don't care to listen, or to support their remarks. If you're only going to bi7ch about the movie, why waste your time here? You're not contributing anything.

No facts? Go to some of the other threads and tell me I have'nt backed anything up. Other ppl are backing up many other things very well and there is no compromise here. You my friend are not worth my time, you seem to be the type that likes to hear yourself speak so carry on chap..

DarkVirus

Have you read your own posts? I'll admit, I've not read all your posts in other threads, but I can almost garentee you have not read any of mine. And I have yet to read a post of yours that didn't have a question or an insult in it, yet, ironically, no facts.

My PM box, and such has been flooded with questions with those who want to understand and I have been able to give answers, and so has many others (Omega, Jedi, Verity, Urot, etc)

Some of us have given better answers than others, but my point is the same. Your facts about plot holes don't hold water. I'll post you the answers you want, when you give me the questions.

So what is it you want answers for?

G-night all I gotta be at work in a few...

Until tomorrow night DarkV

The Matrix was NOT written as a trilogy. They lied when they said that, that is if they even said it to begin with. They wrote the last two because people kept making up stories to extend the first one (Animatrix), and they just wanted money. Directors lie a lot about that kind of stuff anyway.

And it is true that all you guys say to us is "Whatever you just dont understand it". You guys refuse to understand that not everyone likes the Matrix and that not every other movie that deals with the extreme what-if factor is bad. Terminator is not a stupid sci-fi flick about a bunch of mindless androids. What makes The Matrix a "a thoroughly deep movie begging at the fabric of our lives to decypher what it is that we are in all actuality looking for." ? Could the Matrix not just be another mindless sci fi flick about people with holes in their backs that transfer in and out of a world where they have super kung fu abilities and they all wear cool sunglasses? The Terminator is a movie about man being to smart for its own good. Sometimes we just fill our bags with more than they can hold.

I can interperet (notice how its spelled with an E) the deeper meaning of life in better ways than going to see some trendy, overrated movie. For example, I could do it MYSELF. How can you say that we are ignorant if we dont listen to the supposed "deeper meaning" of a movie?! Sure, you can be inspired to interperet the meaning of life in different ways by somehting, but you shouldn't be TOLD to do it!! Its your job to figure ou you. Besides, people who answer life's great questions (why are we here? what happens next? Why don't we know what we want to know?) are just dumbing down the nation by "answering" them. People see those answers and believe thats what they are, rather than figuring it out themselves which is what they should do.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/weep.gif

Urot> I don't think Korri ever really WANTED Trinity to DIE in the movies. It was just her way of expression total adoration for Neo.

Trinity?

?

i agree with plenTpak52
but the matrix is a mixture of two elements.

yes it does have deep inner meaning to it for the smart, but it also has guns and sun glasses for the stupid, plus its really cool! so all in all its a movie for everybody, but what people are complaining about is the fact that revo did not have alot of guns and cool special fxs. if you think that the matrix is about guns and computer graphics, i agree with you, if you think the matrix has deep inner meaning to it, then i agree with you. it combines both of these two things, that is why its a trilogy for everybody

I'm pretty sure the people could walk on the ceilings because they're vampiric programs. The Merovingian was needed so Neo could be rescued, but they should have had him and Persephone in more of the movie. "Love is just a word" was used because the programs could feel love, even though they don't have "emotions".

oh yeah. but why "karma is just a word"? that was not neccessary.They could have said it a lot better anyway.

Why did the guy have to be french anyway? Wasn't the last guy french too? I just say it was unneccessary because they were left right where they started. They made no deal, which i think made it useless.

They still did not have to walk on the ceilings. Even if they could, why would they need to? it was just stupid

Them walking on ceilings made it look cooler. And what other French guy are you talking about? And I can't remember what he said about Karma (other it just being a word), if you remember, then tell me.

There is no other French guy!

And 'just a word' was simply him explaining that it embodies a concept, and that concept is in no way closed to machines.

I think he meant Sati's father, but he's Indian, not French...

Ehrm... Karma IS just a word... It's the meaning we humans place IN that word which matters.

Yes, you're correct, but they PLANNED to have a trilogy, but WB would only allow them to make one movie. (This is stated in Matrix Revisited)

Since everyone seems to be ranting about how well thought out a trilogy this was.... why couldn't the Brothers thought out a better ending??

The ending was good, it's just what led up to the ending that wasn't good...

The brothers were making a statement, and in order to do this, and get their point across, this ending works.

I did not like it, it just seemed stretched out to get my money for two films. BORING, Same old same old. Letdown
Crap. <and that's a period

IT JUST SUCKED.

we get it... just sucked. Hollywood srewed what could have been great. All for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$
if they had cut most of that same crap out and let it ended in 2, i would have said, great!! But they drew it out and srewed it up.

Told like a true champ!

Man, I really feel bad that you guys didn't like it. I mean, most people were really hoping that it would end well because they liked the first two (or at least the first one). And now it's like their dreams of what could have been an amazing movie are crushed. I wish you guys liked it more.

I personally loved it. I liked how it ended. I know this is where I say "you didn't like it because you didn't understand." And then you'd respond with, "you only like it because you'd make any excuses in your mind to fill in the plot holes and believe that it was great." But, I don't want to do that. I'll just leave it at agreeing to disagree. Not everyone is gonna like the same thing. I enjoyed it, and you guys didn't. I'm sorry it didn't meet your expectations though

Simplepriest

Great statement! Tho I must admit I am very tired of hearing people lay claim to plot holes in Revo, or even Reloaded, for things that were answered in the first movie and that sort of thing, you know?

But, alas, I have only quit arguing about it, not fighting about it....Matrix: Explinations 12-05-03 --This site is not yet rated. LoL (If I ever get the time...but if we do not ever take time how can we ever HAVE time?)

Meta> That would be Great

If this movie is a piece of crap, its a piece of crap that we LOVE.
'Nuff said'