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F\/<k. people are pissing me off. they are trying to tell me what goth is and then tell me i am not goth. the next day they tell me what goth is and aperantly overnight, i have become goth. i dont' consider myself a goth. what do you interpret goth to be?

i think of goth as a style. not style as in what you wear but how you live and your attitude. not someone that wears black and wears balls. goths can mostly be found by what they wear but that is still their own attitude flowing out onto their clothing. posers are preppies that dress goth and carry around spell books all day cuase they think that its goth. anyways. what do YOU Think.

=

altho others may not agree, in my opinion, it is, as you sed, not jus de make up, but also their lifestyle, in relation to how they feel inside, their emotions and as such......and how they look upon the world.....

yeah exactly what i was trying to say. lol.

whoops......oh, well den i agree wit u

Its funny Like there are a million goths/punks what ever u want to call thema t my school. and they all say im not part of a group im my self im like oo god shutup ur a punk or a goth waht ever u would like to catorgies it either way i just say the people that dress werid. all these kids at my school want to be differnt and dress outragously and just look dumb but its funny cause mostly the whole school is is like them goth or punk and the real differnt ones r actully the preppies which would be me. and i never ask my goth friends this but honestly r u seriosuly thinking ur going to dress like that when ur older No way unless u stay dumb ur whole life but if u like it more power to u just dont tell me a prep that i am part of the crowd when really its u trying to be a poser with a group

Most people think its the beliefs or the way you dress. I think it's how you act and stuff. You can be jewish, christian, buddhist, and still be 'gothic'. I myself, however, do not consider myself anything. I only label to satiate peoples minds.

also ur style in music plays a role in it except for me i am a meatl head i like mudvayne slipknot manson pantera etc but i dont dress like them but really they dress like there idols i guess like i dress like the people i think r cool on tv but i started dressing preppie without a influece i just liked the cloths and then evryone at my school copied off of me which i didnt mind

I think of Goth as a point of view. I think of Preppie as a point of view as well. One is not better than the other, and both cannot truly be defined. What you really should be going for is Goth-Prep!

I also think the true goths have to eat live chicken heads in order to be true.

Thats not funny TH

god I know u guys never seen me but having me put black lip stick on with a Abercrombie and Fitch shirt and baggy pants with chains on them with Dr. martins just wouldnt look good

Are you kidding, D? That sounds classic! You should totally do it just to see if all the other kids at your school copy you.

Ive worked to hard to get where i am on the popularite list to try something crazy like that but that would be wild to see. it is funny cause i d love west coast choppers and the only place i can buy there shit is from hot topic and hot rags and when i walk into hot topic with all my abercrombie and fitch stuff on i get 20 looks from everyone like omg r u lost what the hell r u doing in here cracks me up everytime.

U would never see a goth walking into AnF or even close to it as a matter a fact. I think they think we have a force sheild around the store so if ne of them walk near it they will explode or something

Its wrong to catergorize. Sure you can have a certyain style but its wrong when your reffered to as weird if your gothic or a punk or whatever.
Im what people call a goth and what i think the stereotypical goth is like is black clothing all the time, cuffs/dog collars, and often white face with black makeup.That sorta stuff.
I often wear that sort of stuff but i dont go around saying "hey there, im a goth!" because again its just categorizing yourself. You are who you choose to be and your style is whatever you want it to be, and you dont need to be labelled but yeah, what i said before is what i call gothic.

janie i agree very much

im sort of a nothing...most of the goths in my school hate me along with basically lots of people because...well i dont know but anyway its all good because i can do whatever i want and no one cares. im just a different person than almost everyone else, and my friends are like that too. just being yourself is the most important thing

yeah your right. I be myself and most people are alright with it but some lowlifes have a go at you just because your not like them which is dumb. Yeah well what can you do! Theyll get whats coming one day.j/k
as long as people are happy with there style then great!

definitely

Here's my oppinion, goth is a state of mind and a religon.

Yeah.Im likin your sig. We goths may not fit in completely but thats not always a bad thing.
nobody fits in thoratically becayse everyone is different. Its just that how different you are from the average person varys greatly.

make-up makes the miracle

Still don't see why it matters that much, most of those subcultures just try to identify themselves and be independent from the rest of society but by making those "rules" they generalised their own subculture and take away in the indepence which they tried to gain in the first place

No time to go to the beach or to taking sun bath

well theyve got their own beaches.....

Only the rich ones who have money to buy make up

gothic=individuality
i know exactly what you mean, that were not different cos there are other goths around, so in a way were not. But we do show personality and courage to be different. And please dont insult by saying were just trying to be different. Were not. Were trying to be exactly who we are, and were succeeding.

well what are you then?

what most people call a goth.
Dont get me wrong, ive no problem with anyone else noyt being. If there happy great. I just totally dont agree with people saying that we are basically efforts. We are just being totally ourselves. Please dnt be cross at me for expressing what i think. Just wanted to let you guys know my view on this. I dont call myself a goth cos thats just labelling.

so ur saying I should dress up as a clown to be a real individual???

I was naturally different when I was younger Something between alternative, depressed and goth. The only things that bremain are the old good memories of friendship and chaos wherever we were

im different from my family.....they are good at math and i suck at math. thats one example.

no clavis im saying the people who choose to wear what they want have the right. Im not saying anyone has to do that, but if they decide that they want to, respect that. Being an individual isnt just dressing different! It doesnt have to even be called individual! All i said was sometimes people want to be individual so thats the way they choose to do it. Through clothes. Quit trying to change what i say k?!

..Also the music that I still listen at home and at some private parties.
We never used to wear special clothes or make up, but it was usual to wear grey and black clothes as I still use working or casual.
Meanwhile I grew and some actual Goths are to much strange for me coz their identity seem to be in their clothes and make up.

Last year I went to see a clasical goth band who ressurrected for a few live shows. Me and some friends of mine were normal people next to youngest fans who were wering the most fabulous clothes to impress.

And they were all happy with their unnecessary show off.

As you sy tree - Goth is a way of life but actually it seems to be more a circus.

Being a goth is just a certain style with certain beleifs!Just like loads of stuff! There are different types of people every where and it doesnt matter. Let people be who they want to be is all im saying! I dont wanna argue on this, just want to let you know what i think.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a true goth or preppie or whatever.
I wear whatever I like and act how I feel at the time.
No labels necessary, on the clothing thing, if I wanna wear black I wear black doesn't neccessarily make me "gothic"

I never liked labels...only on bottles.

exactly silver. Glad you realize that cos everyone else at the mo seems to think that people have to be a certain style to be called a goth. Noone should be called a goth/preppie/townie/whatever. It doesnt matter what theyre like!

i agree with sliver

Angel, take it you agree with me too then?Well at least one person does.

My cousin is what some people might consider "A true Goth" so I ask him the question "what makes a true goth?" He told me that there is no such thing as a true goth. Then he told me that anyone going around saying "I'm a true goth" is only a big dork seeking attention. I personally wear black and listen to industrial music all the time but I don't consider myself a goth. I'm just being myself.

thank satan your here!That is exactly what i think! There isnt a true goth cos there isnt a goth!Gothic is just a style,a cool one at that, and im gothic, but it sucks when peole say to me2your a stupid goth *****" or summat pathetic.

i guess i agree with all of you. most of you anyways. about the AnF thing. i am catagorized into goth but don't consider myself to be one. i have to go with Gotwa on that one. anywayz, AnF, i do go around it but have to close my eyes (cuase of the sight of prep) plug my nose ( cuase of the smell of prep) and hold my fingers into crosses so the evilness doesn't get me. i do go in there just cause i enjoy the scared looks on the customers faces. and of course to make fun of their poser **** clothes. anyways. yeah.

I can't stand it when ppl have the attitude, "I wear black clothes and white make up, therefore I am a goth." or "I dabble in black magic, I am a goth." I think goth is finding beauty in darkness and embracing that darkness. The clothes are just that, clothes, they do not make you who you are.

Hmm...i used to be one! Or at least i used to be labeled as one...

Ok, being a goth is having an attitude, true. I cannot stand little 15 year olds dressing in black going out and sitting in a corner looking ''depressed'' because thats what goths do...pure and utter bullshit!

Clothes wise, having a goth life style is very expencive! Designers clothes like 'Dark Angel' and 'Omen' are really expencive...and i mean REALLY!

Being a goth does NOT consist of listening to Cradle of Filth and any other black or death metal...nor does it consist of loveing Marilyn Manson..these bands are fine, but they do not define a goth...period. Most older goths i knew listened a whole variety of music, but they were mostly alternative...

Goth is a lifestyle people choose....not to be cool, but because it helps them express themself in a way they may not be able to otherwise.

WOW Lil!
amen to that!

"Ok, being a goth is having an attitude, true. I cannot stand little 15 year olds dressing in black going out and sitting in a corner looking ''depressed'' because thats what goths do...pure and utter bullshit!" ~ Lil

I can't stand this! Many many MANY people think this is what Goth is.

Thanks Bid!!

Well, im glad you understand!! Not many poeple do!! And yeah, thats true...they think being a Goth = being depressed...thats just wrong

I liked being a goth..it was fun...it just wanst the lifestyle i could lead!!It was awsome while it lasted though!

i have a t-shirt that says CHEER UP GOTH on it.... but its too small now

i am 100% with your cuz silverfighter. there is no true goth. there are different types of goth and they mostly have nothing to do with what you wear. the only type of goth that has to do with what you wear is POSER! if you run around saying ."oh i'm a goth, i listen to metal, wear black and i have an ankh around my neck" is just a ****ing poser seeking attention. though most goths are signified by their clothing, this is only becuase they are using their clothes as a way of expression. its who they are. its liek the nasty **** preps with the AnF cltohes on. thats just who they are. they aren't getting those clothes cuase they wanna be preps but cuase they are something they truly like and wanna wear. EXACT SAME FOR GOTHS. its just who they are. i don't consider myself goth, i'm just being myslelf. when people ask me if i am goth, i only agree for satiation of their mind. when they ask what are you, i say i'm a Justin Boeser. (which by the way is my name). goths aren't people who run around casting spells and cutting themselves. some goths do, but thats not what it is. its an attitude, a lifestyle. Enough said.

I did a story for the tv news on this homeless couple in Santa Cruz who were labeled "Goth" by the news papers. They both had purple mohawks and had very sharp features. The guy looked very scary, probably methed out. The girl was very stunning. She was very tan and had peircing green I eyes that looked amazing juxtaposed to her purple mohawk. I'll tell you why they went to jail in a moment. We got video of them in court wearing their orange jumpsuit, and I swear, with their hair and wild expressions, they looked like living breathing vampires. They were tried for the murder of a homeless man who refused to move out of his spot in a park in Santa Cruz, California. They beat him to death and cut off his head and were going to use his skull as a candle holder. True story. But that is just the extreme side of the way of life reffered to some at Goth. Like, for instance, Scott Peterson who Murdered his wife Lacy, who was pregnant with their son who also died in utero, he was a Prep! I know you don't like the labels, but it's just a quick way to give folks and idea of the character of the people I'm talking about. I don't hate on Goths or Preps, but one of my ex's was sorta true goth, boyfriend went to prison and stuff. I was her tool for about three months till she started sleeping with other guys. I guess I'm sort of a hippie. That's probably the worst. It was great though while it lasted and I just hope you people who read what I said about Goth-Prep and all that, that was just jokes. I don't give a sh*t what you are as long as your cool. Sorry, but I'm baked.

if ur a goth
ur hot
so its ok... i guess

What does 'being baked' mean?!



I used to be a goth as i said, and i loved it...thats why im going as my old self for new years eve, in my new dress! i cant wait!

baked can mean high

ERm...Im just gonan leave quietly, as i feel incredably stupid right now... and i still dont understand what you meant....


''Sorry, but I'm baked.''

Oh..i understand...damn, he edited a post...

One time I almost got my ass kick because some dudes at a hangout thought I was a poser. Good thing my cousin was there and he knew one of them so luckily there was no confrontation. Just because I was wearing my black clothes I could have been in trouble. Some people just like to take it to the extreme.

*farts*

i think you're right,its not the clothes that make you a goth,its your lifestyle,the music u listen to,your outlook on life,people who dress gothic but havnt got the personality or attitude are posers

or they just like to dress like that

yeah but i mean people who dress like that but dont have the personality or attitude or whatever and call themselves goths

**are posers^

if they call themselves goths it just means that they're ignorant

*sigh*

Gothic is a style! Its what it is...a style...

True Goths like their unusuall clothes, its the fact that people who are so damn obssesed about what to ware so that other people would think you are weird that makes them idiots!

As i said before, true Goths, the ones that have been so for years, most of them my friends will tell you that being a goth is expencive lifestyle...they like their clothes, they love being different, because thats what they are...

was anyone saying otherwise?

Read up there....''its not about the clothes, its about attitude and lifestyle''

Goths with attitude are posers! Being a goth and behaiving normaly, whats ''normal'' to you is a true Goth, not haiving a set ''attitude'' that Goth was ment to have...there is no such a thing...

What is a goth attitude? Be depressed? Sit in the corner? Eat live Chickens?

thats a good point. stereotypes assign goths certain behavior patterns, but i should know better. a good friend of mine could be considered a "goth" but in truth hes just the same as everyone else--his hair and the clothing is different, thats all.

aw man all these fashions....life would be so much easier if everyone just walked around nude.

to lil bitchiness

a goth personality is someone who isn't all jumpy and shit 24/7. a goth attitude is very calming with a few strands of jumpiness (mostly). goths don't give a shit about what others say. they either agree or walk away. the chiken head eating and black cloaks and shit is all a stereotype. people with the goth attitude don't run around saying they are goth to impress people. most goths only say they are goths for mind satiation. yes goth is also a style, and most goths are found by what they are wearing. like i said b4, they are just wearing what they like and their clothes are a major part of attitude. if you are going to run around wearing Good Charlotte shirt, parachute pants and converses and screaming the words to patheically lame song and asking the employees at Hot Topic if they have those pants in pink, not to mention they valley girl talk and preppy as **** makeup, and also they constant "i AM a goth" words, and you only say that becuase of what you are wearing, then you are a poser. and by the way, Good Charlotte is not goth for anyone who doesn't think that.

/\ that was a mouthfull.

I was a full on goth, when you were 8 years old! I know what one is...I became one for the wrong reasons...because i rebelled against everyone, but i hang out with much older goths than me, and they explained what 'being a goth' is....i was a goth for 2 years...a full on goth, then i grew out of it...


Being a goth is different for evryone!

ok i get what you are saying. but you can't just grow out of goth within 2 years if you are a full blown goth. transformation like that would take a really long time. your a "full blown goth" when your 18, be a nasty preppy ***** when you are 30. i real goth doesn't just change into whatever. goth is who you are.

So true.

I myself have been labeled by every other group since I blend in with all the other "tribes." Part jock, goth, punk, nerd, geek, etc. I know what it is to be everything and nothing. I can mingle freely with any group, but do not really belong to one.

I labeled myself just for fun, I'm a Nomad. lol.

I am still goth at heart..you are just contradicting yourself...i dont wear the clothes anymore, and i dont go arround the goth clubs as often as i did...thats all that changed, i never changed my attitude towards anything when i was a goth and now.... my attitude is exactly the same...towards everything...

That paticular lifestyle wasnt suitable for me....nor for the proffession im going to do..period.

HOw can someone ACT goth? Like, not all goths act the same. I think it has to do with clothing. I, for example, have been labled as a "rocker", why? Because of the way I dress and what I listen to (even though I listen to a bit of everything). But i've also been called a prep because of the way I act. I think it has to do with clothing more then anything,but hey,thats just me.

I know few people who do not dress anything like rockers or 'moshers' or goths, and thats the only music they like...

EVeryone is different

labels SUCK!

Amen to that!

Sing it sista!

My gothic looking buddies back in school were the most mellow dudes I ever met. They had the coolest haunted house on Halloween in their on campus apartment. They were all artists. Sometimes they just wouldn't talk and they'd make sh*t. One of them made a fake electric chair that looked super evil and even though you knew it was fake, you were afraid to sit in it. And their music was so loud you couldn't think.

Hehe, a lot of goths/rockers are stereotyped

True! I like a guy with a peircing or 12!

LOL!! Not important at all..just sayin..


<---this banana is scary

LoL, I'm attracted to piercings too...I have 7,soon to be 8

sick dana

22! well 23 now!

but i took most of them out...gonna pierce other places now!

23!!! Where are they!!!

belly button, nipple lip twice tongue, septum, had nose, heiled, had bridge too..the rest are on ears..most are on ears..never had all 23 in in one go!

Wow,my mom would murder me

Whats a septum?

My mom almost did..but it wasnt so bad, because i took few out, then i pireced somethng else..if that makes sense..i never had all 23 together in my body!

what's a septum?

your nose...not your nostril, that little bridge underneath your nose...i dont wear that anymore.... but my best mate Ian said it was my best piercing

Lil, I'm probably gettiny my eyebrow pierced tomorrow. Does it hurt? Does it mae a difference which eyebrow I should get done?

people are all nuts
i can consider ears, belly button, and tongue cool
but too much is too much......unless you dont wear them all at once like lil

eyebrow?! ITs virtualy painless..i almost passed out when i got my septum done....and i was numbed as well....eyebrows ar elegant and sexy..it will grow out, but it looks fab..pierced with a stud NOT a ring!

yea I dont dig the whole bulky ring thing

I don't have an option of a stud only a loop or a bar.. so I'm getting a thing loop, and then I will buy myself something cute to put in when the loop comes out.
Thanks so much for letting me know... I didn't know how bad it would hurt. I can tolerate pain, but not when it's around my eyes.. odd, I know. I am also considering my tongue and lip.. but I'm not sure yet.. I won't get those last two done anytime soon anyways.
It doesn't matter symbolically which one I get done? right or left, it doesn't matter?

i wanna get my tongue done

Get you labret done...with a bar..it looks stylish and sexy!

Silva, haivng tongue done rocks.. i love it..like i said before, guys look at your mouth instead of your boobs!

haha it's useful too aint it

VERY useful

what is labret?

Your lip pierced lower..like ''chin''...lip piercing is right on the line where your lip begins..labret is lower!

oh, I see. thanks! why can't they just put it in simple terms?

Sorry

Mmmm... tongue piercing.

I'd like to get a couple of facial piercings, right after I get rich, or just get really bored. lol

Goths are confused adolesents who are looking for some kind of purpose in life, even if said purpose is flaunting their depression and "wierdness" to the world.

They are also mostly hypocrits from the ones I've seen. Thye say they don't belong to a group or a catagory, and that they are just being themselves. Yet they look like all the other goths who don't wanna be grouped together. And this raises a question, if they hadn't seen other people dressing in a gothic way, would they still dress like a goth? Obviously, the answer is usually going to be no.

very well said

Wow..what a thought provoking response Tex...

He was obviously encouraging my brilliant reply

obviously..everyone is speachless!

I'll go with BackFire on this. Why would you want to be a devil-worshipper anyway?

No offense to any Goths, just my views...

Just because you're gothic doesn't mean u worship the devil

I on the other hand, mean complete offense to all goths with my response.

Exactly...

BF how would a goth get offended by what you said

Goth was ment ''not to give a shit what anyone thinks'' so i higly doubt they'll get offended...(im not offended, and i used to be one)

Isn't that what Goths do though? The original idea of Gothic folks is that they are devil worshipers, though that has changed since a lot of people just dress that way.

There are many definitions of Goth.. to each their own...

ah. more hypocracy. If they didn't care what people thought of them, then why would they go out of their way to make themselves noticable with the way they dress/act/think. They are the biggest attention whores this side of Tex

I agree.... many many goths are posers, and many are hypocrites. Not all though.

Wrong!

Because they dont care what people think, they can do what they like..ware what they like, look scratty and horrible as they like...

Do you think a person who cared what people thought would rebell and think whatever/ware whatever....dooubt it.

And you are generalising...

The fact that they present themselves in that fassion allows them to be generalized. If they truley didn't care what people thought, then they wouldn't try so hard to be recognized as "different", which of course they aren't. It's hard to be different when you look exactly the same as everyone else in the group you are in.

Also, Yes I think someone who rebals definately cares what other think, they are trying to garner negative attention, by "rebelling" as they do, they are seeking some kind of attention and trying to show how different they are from "normal" people.

I dunno know if anyone has posted this yet:

http://maddox.xmission.com/gothagain.html

"If they truley didn't care what people thought, then they wouldn't try so hard to be recognized as "different", which of course they aren't."

Maybe they are trying to be different, and are different, but everyone else groups them as the same because they look the same. - Just a thought

I still dont understand why do you generalise...I mean, you dont like goths..gee..big deal, not a problem at all..
Its wrong of you to think that rebbelling means simply to show you are different...how about being something you're comftable with and with that rebelling?

What, about cross dressrs? Isnt that rebelling?

Kids who are goths is just a phrase, just like many thngs are in teenage years....people who are older and mature and are goths obvioulsy see something in that lifestyle for them, not attention...
Are you saying that anyone who is different by their own choice is seeking attention?

Well, that makes them completely NOT DIFFERENT if they are like everyone else in their group.


Damn it Tex, I was just going to post that! Oh wait, that's another acrticle, here's another form Maddox

http://maddox.xmission.com/gothics.html

lol BF your the man because u tell it like it is and you dont give a shit who cares lol rock on brother...and tex..your just tooooo coool haha

Thank you Kid Rock!

BF's just sweaty ass juice!

Wait, how exactly are gothics rebelling? They dress in black and paint their nails and look pale, where is this rebellion you speak of? They aren't lighting government buildings on fire, they aren't going around shooting people who think differently of them, they aren't rebellious at all.

If anything they are simply tools who are aching so hard to be different, but they aren't intelegent enough to do so, so they simply follow a trendy culture that many people ignorantly percieve as being different.

And no cross dressing isn't rebelling, although you're comparison to crossdressing is ironic since most gothic males are usually more comparable to a female.

If you want to be able to put everyone in their own group, prep, goth, punk, ect. you could do that very easily. Everyone fits into some kind of catagory. But if you could look beyond stereotypes, and see the person beneath the label for an individual, then you're the bigger person not to group people into herds. However, some people don't like others to see who they are sometimes, like in high school, so they hide in these groups. In high school, kids just want to fit into a group comfortably. These days, if u are urself, then u get persecuted. Yes, some do like the negative attention they get. Others just don't want attention at all. There's my explanation for stereotypes in adolesence at 2:30 am LOL I don't even know if it makes sense..

Once again, it's their own fault for following this group, and allowing themselves to be stereotyped by following said stereotype.

Also, no one really puts me into a catagory, I'm not goth, prep, or punk. The only catagory you could put me in is the "bitter ******* computer fiend" catagory, which would be a correct observation, because I am a bitter ******* who spends the majority of his time on the computer.

"Once again, it's their own fault for following this group, and allowing themselves to be stereotyped by following said stereotype."

Yes, it is their own choice to follow

There's no stereotype of a goth. They are individuals, like satanists. I consider myself a goth and I listen to goth rock (the good oldies siouxsie and the banshees rules all ) but i don't have the 'i want to die. The world is a sick, sad place, let's make a dark poem out of this' attitude. What makes a true goth is his feelings towards it. If he feels goth, then he is. If not, no matter how gothy he would look and behave, he's not goth. End of story!

so u are saying that if you aint goth you aint an individual....

Did i say that? No.

Actually, there is a stereotype of a goth, at least to the general public, and that is the 'the world is a sick sad place, lets make a dark poem out of this" attitude you spoke of. And many so called goths adhere to this stereotype.

but... not all goths are like that! and yeah, it's only to the general public.

this thread has the biggest set of large posts that i have EVER seen!

hehe hey, it's true! haha... weel, at least ppl have their own opinion, eh?

thta's true


my opinion is:

*snogs Vampiree*

... what did you just do?

oh well *blushes* let me go!

snogged u!

u do know what it means, right?