Lightsabers and water
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Ok, so as we know, It's been confirmed that there's an underwater lightsaber fight in Episode 3. Now this was originally considered to cause major problems, since in Episode I Obi-wan gets yelled at for getting his saber wet.
But I was thinking about it, and in Episode II, Obi has a lightsaber fight in driving kaminoan rain. He loses the saber, and it gets rained on for quite a while before he get back to it. If sabers were that vunerable to water, it would've been completely shot by the time he got there. So I figure it's canon by Episode II that sabers CAN get wet.
actually, the movies overrule EVERYTHING
so technically, you can drop the EpI arguement
so, yes, apperently they CAN stand water
Maybe it's the new technology
as long as they don't beam someone up scotty
There should be a clash between our Universe in the Star Trek Era vs The Star Wars Era...you know, like they fall through a worm hole or something to get the timeframes to match up...
An underwater fight scene would be cool.
ep3 is gonna suck ( i know, that was a bit off-topic, but i shouldn't start a new thread just to say that).
the underwater thing will not be a fight. the issue is not about water screwing up the saber, the issue is the saber being designed to work in the density of certain range of gaseous atmospheres. water is a different medium so the lightsaber force field screws up and malfunctions (this is assuming that the saber is a bunch of photons frozen by some sort of field.) Fisto's cartoon lightsaber looks different and is specialized for water. it would probably break in air.
but you can't take Fisto in the cartoon as canon
i think it is a, special kind of lightsabre for underwater battles...
I think that the lightsaber has to be waterproof. I mean c'mon, how can you have an underwater battle without any blaster shooting or lightsaber swinging.
It's probably just zipped up in a ziplock bag.
they aren't fighting in water, the water is going to be digitally altered to be fuel. the whole point is that they can't ignite their lightsaber because that will ignite the fuel
lol, where'd u get that ?
Yeah, that's an interesting rumour.
And how will they breathe?
Obi-Wans lightsaber in Ep1 shorted out because he tried to use it in the water (if memory of the Ep1 Screenplay Book serves me right). In Ep2 the saber is off during the Jango battle when it's left out to soak.
Fitso's saber was supposed to have some sort of bi-blahblah mechanism, meaning that it turned on and off at a very rapid rate. However the creator of the show later confirmed that he made that up after he was questioned about it.
ok, this is from a number of sources, including, if you recall, an interview with Nick Gillard stating that there was a scene involving flooding fuel. this is directly from the collaborative plot summary from shadow of the sith- R2-D2 causes a distraction by creating a smokescreen (as he will later do on Bespin during the events of The Empire Strikes Back), and Kenobi and Skywalker escape up a steep ramp and quickly make their move: Obi-Wan cuts with his lightsaber into the ground to escape, while Anakin (more willing to stay and fight it out) holds off the enemy.
The two jump down through the opening and land in another room: the engine room. When they jump down the room is already filling with liquid fuel due to bombardment from Republic forces attacking from space. Droids appear above them looking down through the hole Kenobi has made, but they do not fire. They see the fuel and understand the consequences should they try to blast the Jedi. However, other droids actually start to make their way around to the entrance door to the engine room...
The fuel fills the room quickly and the ship rocks and shakes from the bombardment outside - the Republic forces are beginning to get the upper hand in the space battle.
The droids enter the fuel-filled room, and the Jedi must come up with ways to destroy them without igniting their lightsabers. Realizing they are no safer here than before, Kenobi and Skywalker quickly search for an alternate way out as they battle the droids.
The fuel is filling the room very quickly, but the Jedi finally find a shaft with a ladder connected to the side. They climb up and out to another room. As battle droids climb out of the fuel and up the ladder, they cover the shaft up with its hatch. Anakin welds it shut. The droids are trapped in the shaft and in the engine room. The fuel continues rising higher, dangerously close to some kind of control panel on the wall...
again this whole thing is from the opening battle on the federation flag ship
How incredible does that sound?? I can't wait to see something like that.
wasn't the obi-wans lightsabers not working because its wet in a deleted scene?
It would be a bit impractical for a Jedis only weapon not to function just because it got wet.
his sabre in AOTC got quite a splash while he fought Jango and it still worked
The sabres still worked when OB1 and Qui Gon swam down to the Gungan city
I think they only get busted when you turn them on in a different medium. there was rain on kamino but the medium was still air.
The deleted scene specifically mentioned that activating a sabre underwater caused it to burn out and require a recharge.
We shall see if Episode III makes this clearly not so.
that means the greater the density of the medium, the greater the powerloss of a standard light saber. Kit Fisto's got some special crystals in his.
as far as I know, Kit Fisto never used it under water
It doesn't mean anything we can discern at all; it is Star Wars science.
in clone wars he used a lightsaber underwater with a very funky blade
Which scene was that
We know that, DJ, but that is EU.
God I'm sick of all this EU/non-EU crap! I feel like I'm on trial in every f^&king thread. Everything I've read or seen so far having to do with the events during or preceding the clone wars has been absolutely brilliant and I will use it as evidence as I see fit. this whole EU schism that the mods are creating is a bunch of bullsh&*t. The movies are seen as a firsthand account and everything else is a second hand interpretation, therefore EU may not be entirely accurate but if it is approved by Lucasarts, it retells an event that supposedly happend in the context of the star wars timeline but in a way that is not as accurate as the films. The only thing that is completely bogus and should be treated as EU is treated now are the infinities, the young reader starwars books (the ones with palpy's 3-eyed son), the marvel tales that don't make any sense, and anything else that is completely irrelevant. so far, apart from one marvel comic, nothing having to do with the Clone Wars falls under this tag. So it's all fair game as far as I'm concerned. If that bothers you, you have the right to freedom choice, don't read my post.
DJ, those are the rules of the game and you are in no position to change them.
so, instead of you thinking you can change them when you see fit, you have to accept these rules or just post in the EU-section
DJ, calm the heck down. The rules are clearly posted. If you cannot follow those rules, then it is you who should not post- simple as that.
Incidentally, I suggest you re-read that rules thread and look up the difference between EU and non-canon before going on a rant like that- likewise the difference between Lucasarts and Lucasfilm. You attempt to say some things are not EU- even if you were right about their legitimacy, which you are not, they would still be EU.
EU sources are not acceptable as fact in these sections, in consistency with Lucasfilm policy. Any erroneous attempt to portray such material as fact will be rebuffed. End of story. Deal with that.
This is an argument about a fictional plotline. I'll do as I wish
You will follow the rules of the board, DJ. Do not test us on that.
When does he get yelled at for getting it wet? I don't remember that....
It's in a scene that was cut from the movie. I'm just thrilled that we've stooped to the kind of bickering that gives Star Trek fans a bad name.
Why do lightsabers have shadows? They are meant to be made of light
they are energy, they are not light!
light doesn't cut you know
i thought that it was just a regular fight, does anybody have any articles wher i can see where you got this info? because i remember mccalum saying that it was a battle between obi wan and some hydro droids, i never heard anything about sabres being in there, in fact i think i recall him denying the whole sabre idea.
I like Water?
Sorry to sound so harsh, I don't mean to be, but this whole thing kept going around in circles.
Cinematically or realistically, an underwater lightsaber fight would just not work. It seems to me that a saber's blade has no weight, so it probably has no mass either. Even a slight amount of water pressure, simply being fully submerged in water, would cause the water to push in on it and extinguish it. I'll use a lighter as an example. You can flick your bic in the rain, but if its so wet it won't catch a spark you can't ignite it. I think the same basic principle would apply to a lightsaber.
Cinematically, it would be horrible. Even if Lucas could imagine up some waterproof saber, think of how many bubbles all that evaporated and/or displaced water would have to create to make it look believable. Every swoosh of a saber would make a wall of bubbles, or it would end up phony looking, like some of the 'underwater' scenes in LotR.
Masterjedi, you are making a the same mistake of trying to apply real science to Star Wars again! I think you could be in danger of that as well, Creechur. Truth is, this works whatever the way GL wants it to, and science be damned. When they wrote TPM, he decided they did not work underwater. But now he might have decided that they can.
About the only thing we do know is that they deliberately keep the shadows of lightsabres, even using effects work to sharpen them up, so they have some form of physical presence.
Ush, you give Lucas too much power over his creation. I know that sounds strange, but even a creator has to follow some rules!
Sure you can get away with messing with physical laws and whatnot, but you have to stick to the laws you make. More importantly, it is a filmakers job to trick us, to make us believe something. While our conscious mind is following a movies story, our unconscious mind is on the lookout for little errors...things that if they happened in real life would cause us to do a double take.
The one thing that will ruin a movie for me is to not believe what I'm seeing. The best part about the majority of the FX shots in LotR was that they were sooo believable. They integrated into the live action so well that your brain could just keep following the story. Whenever youre trying to figure out how an effect was done instead of just watching the movie unfold, the filmmaker has failed.
So, all science aside, I still say the scene would be unshootable. To make my brain believe they were underwater, there would have to be so many bubbles...you wouldn't even need to film the fight! Just put bubbles onscreen for about 5 minutes, with "VRRRrrmmmm" sound effects.
and you believe in the Force? lightsabres cutting through everything? hyperspeed to thousands of livable planets? countless races of aliens?
Sorry Ushgarak, I just apply science because I am a scientist...it only makes sense to me after looking at the origanal Lucus material on lightsabers, thats all. I'm not saying that lightsabers will work submerged, just proposing a way they could, if they did. I can't make GL take back his own rules, but it would be nice if he listened to reason!
This may sound really random, and I don't mean to interupt the current conversation, but does anyone know much about lightwhips?
in a world of flying space ships, laser pistols, droids, aliens and people using their minds to choke people, i really dont think that science has any say in the situation
Yup, I agree with Dark Assassin and yerssot- science has no say in at at all. I don't really see your position as tenable, Creechur.
Lucas has, in any case, established very few rules. But in any case, I still have not seen any firm evidence that this is actually going to happen- as far as I know, GL has not changed his mind and they do not work underwater. One just has to be open to the possibilities, is all.
If you've played Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast, when the light saber gets under water, it turns off, then when youre above water it works. So I think most light sabers just don't work under water!!!
let's just agree that every medium, be it air or water or vacuum would need a specialized lightsaber crystal to compensate for density. hence mr. fisto using a completely different animal of saber in the clone wars. the standard issue lightsaber is meant to be used for open air of some standard variable of densities because most worlds that the jedi patrol have that kind of terrain. for under water combat or slimey combat or combat in space, a jedi would hang up his or her personal lightsaber and get a specialized one from the armory, at the jedi temple, probably the third floor, second door on the left next to Kriv'lak's force philosophy class and starbuck's
Compromise or rebuttal, side with the voice of reason or argue a futile point...hmmm....I'll compromise with Darth Jello...and even fictional worlds must have some logic (be they simple rules, or science, or physical law, or even illusion), or else there would be no point in our discussing them.
To be honest, there ISN'T much point discussing how sabres work. And no, there isn't really any logic to it beyond what is stylistically appropriate in GL's mind.
And as GL tells it, the crystals are only batteries (anyone who thinks different is getting it from the EU) so they would have no effect on density.
Light DOES cut. Ever heard of a laser?
cornponious kokious maximus
Actually, I AM a registered nitpicker at nitpickers.com.
registered nitpicker #202
*runs off to join in on the fun*
okay ya know then city that is underwater called gungan city maybe the lightsabers are waterproof because of that so they could use the sabers to get into the city or just to fight in the water but we will have to find out what happens in starwars 3
First, Cornponious, I already made the point about the laser, but good catching that...nitpickers must band together. Second, I was thinking, if a jedi knew what effect water would have on his/her saber, couldn't the jedi just use the force to create a cavity in the water for the blade?
well, up to this point, not a single canon source (which is strictly only the movies) have given the idea that water fries your sabre. the scene was cut in TPM so it doesn't count
(Luke was in the trashcompactor, midhight in the dagobah swamp etc. and his sabre never failed him)
yeah but it wasnt underwater though...
Right, I agree with Dark Assassin on this, wetting a lightsaber wouldn't drain it, but activating it under water would. I'm assuming that is what Dark Assassin ment.
all I'm saying is that not a single canon source has claimed so
Oh, I'm sorry, I don't disagree with you Yerssot, I do. But, I have a feeling it is going to be hard to find a cannon source for this one...aside from the cut shot from EpI that is arguably not cannon...I guess we could send a letter to GL, and maybe he'll get around to giving us a letter... :
i allways thaught lightsabers would work underwater but it might damage them.
i have a game jedi academy if anyones played it theres a level where you fight some sith and there are pools of water around and if you fall in your lightsaber turns off automaticly.
mabey it becomes unstable or somthing and can reflect off the water or somthing i dunno
Well, what I origanally thought was that if anything completely surrounded the blade (all at once) that it would drain the saber, because lightsabers don't expend energy until they touch something, and they expend more energy based on surface area (you can find this info in the archive of the offical site). But if it shorted out because the blade was in total contact with something, then it would have shorted out when Qui gon tried to cut through the blast door...so there goes that hypothesis...
true DR, it does switch off, but that has nothing to do with the movies
and mj83... if GL deceides that it doesn't work that way like you wrote, it doesn't, he has that power
Dudes, My Hasbro Light Saber don't work in water.
I know, and apparently, that happened
ah, but you perhaps got the standard one
omg, this is just so much fun to read...
Perhaps they took "batteries" (3 x AA) from their lightsabers just before they went swimming?
thanksss all of you dudes and dudets but really there is really no reason 2 thank me i am glad i can help you all out as a SW fan it is my duty 2 share everything with you what i can get my hands on ,just keep spreading the stuff i release anywhere you can ,SW fans should always stick 2gether and i am glad 2 see that there are still real SW fans who dont stab eachother in the back ,you are all the saviors of the SW legacy
Well if it help's "am sorry dragonx"
Wouldnt you just electrocute yourself if you were able to ignite a lightsaber under water?
I guess that is GL's call for the logic on, again. Hard to accurately assume anything.
Sith Master X
Correct, especially where GL is concerned, most anything is unpredictable.
I can't believe you guys are having a debate about a fictional piece of technology.
ROTFLMAO! Creechuur you are killing me here.........
What was your source Darth Jello.
Well, wouldnt you???
The things electric, isnt it?
damn that'd take a super long cord dontcha think?
Batteries, power cells, whatever.
'Electric' may be the worng word, but I still figure you'd get electrocuted.
El Toro De Brah
Yeah with all this said, technology is Star Wars is how you say.....imaginery. Tell me how one manages to create a "hyperdrive" system that propels "spaceships" to the speed of light. Answer me that and the point of lightsabers being able to work underwater would seem pointless.
Isn't that what's happening in almost EVERY THREAD here?
At any rate, allow me to end this discussion.
Despite being called "lightsabers", Lucas will sometimes refer to them as "laser swords". Now, I know for a fact that a laser can be fired under water with no ill consequences at all. It's just light. I don't see massive explosions or electrocutions every time the sun shines through the ocean, either.
I presume that the same could be said for a lightsaber as well, if in fact they did exist.
Next topic, please.
Jeez, I dont know why so many people are trying to end a perfectly ridiculous discussion with 'sense' and 'logic'.
You might be able to fire a beam of light into water, but what if the machine that was shooting the beam were also underwater? A laser emitter (or a lightsaber hilt) would have to have a power source of some kind, right?
So you could ignite a saber INTO the water, but not UNDERWATER.
some flashlights are water-resistant.
Maybe the hilt is sealed.
Sith Master X
Yeah, there would be no problem at all igniting a saber into the water. It shows that in Episode 2 (not quite into the water) But Obi-Wan does use his saber in the rain on Kamino.
water would have no effect on a light sabre as it is pure energy! It would merely glow through the water and repell any water immediately around it.
Here's my idea for the underwater fight...
Anakin & Jar- Jar get ina fight, it gets under water, and he zaps Jar- Jar's head off. THE PERFECT ENDING
" Your father, I am."
one of the clone wars cartoon ep you see kit-fisto with a lightsaber
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