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As long as I've been a fan of both comics I've always wanted to know who'd win in an all out, no holds barred battle between the enigmatic BATMAN and the Sleek and swift King of the techno-jungle; Black Panther. And all of my conclusions have led me to believe that T'Challa ( aka The Black Panther ) would without a doubt come out on top of Bruce Wayne ( The Batman ). Of course I'm not saying it wouldn't be an amazing and epic struggle between these two men. I mean after all they've both got the brains, the strength and the unlimited resources at their command. But! After carefully reading each of their exploits I'm still firm in my belief that T'Challa is superior ( If you've read anything during the Marvel Knights/ Christopher Priest era of Black Panther ).

please use the best match-ups for battles thread to talk about this

MAUAAHAHAH damn newbies make stupid threads sooooooooooo I BURN EM !!! wHAAHHAHA

*sparks lighter and kicks over a table ripping down the curtains placing it over the broken table, kneels down and lights it up* MAUAAHAH bye bye thread such a prudy fire makes me go 0.o umm ...o.o...yop

moving to Comic book movies discussion....

Black Panther, good thread, wrong forum.

Too equal. Depends entirely on the writer.

Yes, I agree. I would rather see Panther win, but it all depends on who's writing.

id like to see black panther kick his ass

Thank you for the suggestion Vampy. But I'm quite comfortable right where the discussion is. I possibly would have moved the topic elsewhere were it not for the idiotic display your apparent associate " kofmaster " so eagerly thrust upon this thread. I believe as long as people respond -- I will continue. Have a GOOD day.

Nathaniel: your thread was moved.... it didn't belong in the X-Men forum, so next time you open a thread, make sure it is in the right section.

Welcome, btw

I'm surprised no Batfans have come in here spitting up blood at the thought of Bats being beaten like a step-child.

That's because they all know that Batman would end up at T'Challa's boots. I'm still a Batman fan but even the Caped Crusader has limits and unfortunately BP is the man who'd bring Wayne down.

yep

black panther would win

I've just been rereading some of the latest Panther run, he's so badass. He took over Stark Enterprises with one phone call. While ruining Iron Man's shit in a fight. And so many other acts of awesomeness.

panther

Panther would win.

BTW, could Wolverine cut Panther's vibranium suit?

*stares into magic ball* punkyhermy will vote batman

Panther's suit absorbs the momentum of metal objects, bullets, knives etc. It can be cut along the grain of the fabric. Whether you can use a metal knife to do so, I don't know. It would be pretty funny to see Wolverine lunge at Panther, then just loose all of his momentum and drop like a sack of bricks. Panther's claws could break down Wolverine's though.

Thanks.

Yes, it would be funny to see. It would be also funny to see Black Panther kicking Wolverine's ass...

Well, according to Chris Priest Panther's suit can be cut if it's slashed correctly. So I would assume that Wolverine would have no problem cutting through it since Kraven did in the Marvel Knights series. And yeah -- if you read the Christopher Priest site he talks about how T'Challa has anti-metal claws that can theoretically break down adamantium. But of course nothing was confirmed.

Yeah, if cut along the grain of the fabric, the suit can be cut.

Weapon X gave Agent Zero a sniper rifle and a bullet made out of anti-metal to assassinate Wolverine. It was a dud bullet just because it was a psychological test, but they confirmed that if indeed it was anti-metal, it would have worked.

Well then. Wolverine's ass is in deep trouble then, eh? He might have his work cut out for him going against T'Challa. Anyway back to the topic. If there are any avid Batman readers out there who'd like to discuss in detail why BATMAN might be able to take on Panther -- please. Do not hesitate to respond. So far everyone on the thread is on the site of The PANTHER!

FINE THEN~

i say Batman! Why? because Batman can virtually beat any opponent that isn't vastly more powerful than himself. His gadget belt has things in it that would give him more time to come up with a plan to beat him. Yet is also depends on environment and prep time. As for the panthers suit, Batman does not need to get through the suit to damage him.
Also i have seen Batman also trained himself to be at the level of peak human. He is one of the best martial artists, and has held his own against Superman, Captain America, Ras Al Ghul, Hush, Bane, Catwoman, Clayface, and many more. I think Batman could pull it off.

With his kimoyo card, Panther has access to a network of Wakandan satelites, this can get him any information he needs in seconds. He is a skilled martial artists, and like Batman travelled the world and learned from many people and places.

T'Challa has held his own against Iron Fist, Iron Man, Captain America, Mephisto, Kraven the Hunter, Red Skull, Klaw, Killmonger and more.

Panther has also proven to be a great tactical genius'. When it comes to fighting, military action and just putting together a stock portfolio (which he uses more often than not to win fights).

IMHO, he could woop Batman, and buy out Wayne Enterprises simultaneously.

Heh. That's what I'm talkin' about. Any more Bat-Fans out there? Come on -- don't be skurred!

Yeah he would beat Wayne Enterprises. He is a fricking king of one of richest nations.

I don't know why almost everybody votes for Batman. Sure, Black Panther is tough, rich and smart (just like me ), but like I said before, Black Panther and Batman are too equal.

Most things you say in favor of Black Panther, you can easily say for Batman as well, and vice versa. Whatever the Panther can do, the Bat can do also. Maaaybeee, Black Panther has a little edge thanks to his herb, but it won't make any difference, the two characters remain too equal.

Yeah. Basically, it boils down to preference. I like BP better, so everything I say goes in his favor. Biased? Yes. Do I particularly care? Nope.

I'm sorry to say this but -- Black Panther and Batman are by no means equals. The level of technology and resources that T'Challa wields are far superior to anything the Bat might have. As far as I recall Batman normally has compact technology he wields on a personal level. ( Not including his modes of transportation. Batplane, Batmobile etc ) In Black Panther # 11 T'Challa hid a vessel the size of over one hundred football fields in the East River. Now this vessel contained over 150 heavily armed guards and scientists on board. Black Panther unlike BATMAN commands armies. He's the leader of a NATION that in the Marvel Universe could rival the United States. Now mind you -- these guards are in many respects like his Hatut Zeraze. ( Wakandan Secret Police ). They're mad skilled in combat and do not hesitate to kill. Plus with their cloaking devices -- they're elite. Batman as formidable and intelligent as he is I still find it hard to believe he's in the same league as T'Challa. I mean BP has conversations with Reed Richards and few can follow that mofo.

Not to mention that Batman didn't really start his crusade until he was well in his teen years. Black Panther definately has experience on Batman in battles and training. He's been trained to fight since he could walk. It was his birthright as a Wakandan Prince to become the smartest, strongest and brightest. I would assume that if T'Challa had never taken the herb that he and Batman would have been equals. But -- his already FORMIDABLE skills were enhanced when he took the herbs. The FACT is...Black Panther is superior to Batman. But if it came down to a popularity vote -- Batman would win.

Batman with prep time is a very formidable beast, but he has his limits.
He beats his opponents with knowledge and skill.

If this fight were just a random meeting and neither had prep time, in terms of fighting skills they are about equals.

But Panther has his suit and that would give him the edge.

If batman or both of them had time to prepare, it would be a different story.

How does anti-metal work... even if it can cut through adamantium can it cut through his claws since it is not made of metal?

Now back to the subject at hand.... I don't read BP comics so I am not sure, but doesn't the public know that BP is T'Challa? If so then it is a major advantage that Bruce has over him, since he can attack him when he is unprepared... If not then you can just forget that argument ... But let me know if I am right or wrong

Regular "Wakandan" Vibranium, the stuff that his suit is made out of, absorbs waves. There's some in Cap's shield that absorbs the impact of projectiles. On one occasion, there was an explosion on a small island where there was also a minor vibranium source, the vibranium absorbed the sound and shockwave of the explosion.

Anti or "Antartic" (it is found in the Savage Land) Vibranium is the opposite. It constantly emits waves. Because of this dissonance, when in contact with other metal the waves hit it at a molecular level and break down the molecular bonds of the other material. The claws would be strong enough to break down the adamantium, and cut through the bone portion of his claws.

T'Challa has his super-senses. While not on par with DD's he can identify people by scents and heatbeats sometimes. Not to mention he has a brilliant deductive mind himself. If ever he and Wayne had met at some cushy millionair's club, he'd instantly be able to match the scents.

I am sure that if both Bruce and T'Challa were in the same universe, then I am sure that Bruce would have gotten his hands on some Vibranium to experiment with for his costume.




If it effects metals on a molecular level, then how would it effect other materials that are non mental like bones. Do we know if it has the same effect on all materials or if it is just metal. And how strong is the material itself, is it hard to break.



Batman has created gadgets before to supress his scent and the sound of his heart beat (even Superman could not hear it), so that won't be much use to him.

Anti-metal effects just metals. However the material is strong enough itself to rend bone.

Batman cannot impliment his gadgets if he is unaware of his opponents abilities.

BP used to be an Avenger, didn't he? That means that information on his abilities are stored somewhere, since the avengers are so closely linked to the government I am sure that Bruce can manage to get his hands on the information through unoffecial channels.

Does this mean that Anti-metal is the new "Adamantium"?

Anti metal isn't really explored much. And yes, BP is an Avenger. But in Red Zone, Gyrich confirmed that Iron Man and BP both keep the secrets of their work on the down low.

P.S: Scarlet Spidey, great sig, I love Dr.Spectrum.

Thanks, Mav. Doc is cool as a cucumber.

The Avengers are also now a U.N. authority. Their secret files will probably be a lot harder to hack now, especially with Pym, Stark and Wakandan technology backing this up.

Experience! It all boils down to experience at least in my own opinion. Black Panther has been conditioned much longer in the skills that he has in comparison to Batman who I assume didn't really start his endevours to become what he currently is until his late to mid teens. While T'Challa has been cultivated and conditioned since birth to be the BEST of the Best. Afterall -- T'Challa is a King who runs an entire country. He was always expected to BE what he currently is.

Wouldn't it be funny if this battle was fought on an economic level rather than the two just duking it out for hours on end? T'Challa and Batman are SHREWD people and have skills that can be compared to ANY great buisness man or politician. If their fight started on that level things would be much more interesting. Wayne Enterprises buying out shares of T'Challa's stock and T'Challa doing the same. Each trying to get a foot hold in one another's wealth.

Yes. Although with T'Challa's grasp upon the economy, I think he might have a leg up. For good or bad, I can't think of any Batman story that really has him using and manipulating Wayne Enterprises. Whereas T'Challa took over Stark Enterprises by donating 300 dump trucks to a small farming country so they could get their produce in on time. This interrupted Stark's monopoly on that market and yadda yadda etc. etc.

batman rocks more!!!!!!!!!!

I like both of these characters but Panther would come out on top

http://img83.exs.cx/img83/3976/oola1.jpg
http://img83.exs.cx/img83/1794/huy.gif http://img83.exs.cx/img83/1560/huyy.gif

merging...

How dare you...you won't get away with this! JK don't eat me!

T'Challa WINNER BY knock out.

You guys are all nuts. Batman would bend Black Panther over and spank him, send him home crying, and make him right him a letter apologizing in advance if he ever even thinks about doing anything about it.

Yeah, Batman wouldn't even need to touch his utility belt. Batman would spank him like Randy Couture vs. Tito Ortiz.

Have you guys ever even read a comic with Black Panther in it? He's definately no pushover.

No one said he was a push over. Just that he's no match for Batman.

Batman would have to use his utility belt I'm sorry

Yeah, to spank him with!

No...for the weapons inside

Bats doesn't need his belt to fight. He is an accomplished fighter without it.

I know he is but he couldn't beat T'Challa without it!

And Panther could beat Bats without his gadgetry?
Most certainly not! So either they both get it or neither does.

Besides that was joke, It's hard to sense sarcasm on an online forum and I hate smileys so forgive me for not stressing that.

If they both didn't use gadgetry T'Challa would win but if they did Bruce would win. At least that's what I think.

Continue not using them, I hate smileys with a vengeance.

Since when is panther that great of a fighter? I know hes good but not great.

The Black Panther is near the pinnicle of human physical perfection, his natural strength and abilities having been heightened by unidentified heart-shaped herb administered only to Wakandan kings during a sacred ascension ritual. THe herb os also only in Wakanda. While not superhuman, he is nearly as strong as a human being can become. He can lift (press) a maximum of 750 pounds with supreme effort.
An accomplished gymnast and acrobat, T'Challa is also an expert tracker. In addition, he has mastered various African martial arts.

Yeah Panther's had good trainers but Bats has had the best. Either way it doesn't say anything about how they take to the training. Batman is pretty much perfect. It's the reason so many people hate him. He's not the best martial artist but it's damn short list of people who are better than him.

Batman basically is the pinnacle of human perfection. Don't beleive what others say that he's every Olumpic athlete *10. That's obvious hype. But it's just short list of people who are better than him at anything.

Alright since they'll never battle we don't really know who'll win but I stick to Panther and you stick to Batman. Now I'm off to catch my school bus before it leaves me!

LOL, alright.

Well Arsenal, I didn't know any of that stuff. It would appear that Panther is an altered human. Bats has taken on altered humans before like Bane and Croc. Bats is also an aquired gymist and knows multiple martial arts. They are both smart too. I'd have to read more Panther to criticize him better. I still say Bats because he has so much experience fighting against the odds. He has gone toe-to-toe with Lady Shiva and Deathstroke to name a few.

Well, Black Panther's in Cap's league when it comes to fighting, he's one of the few people in Marvel that could give Cap the fight of his life. He's given hell to the Fantastic Four, and quite a few others, which I can't remember at the moment, hopefully someone else here does. Pound for pound, he's one of the most dangerous men in Marvel, and no one, especially the Avengers, would disagree. And along with his current suit and tech, makes him much more dangerous. From what I remember, only one person has beaten him in hand-to-hand so far, I can't remember his name either though, I'll have to look it up. And I wouldn't straight out say Batman's training is better than Panther's, it's probably about the same, with the scale tipping a little more in Panther's favor, since he's literally been training since he could walk. He's also one of the very few people Dr. Doom respects, and when Doom gives you props, you know you're the shit. Batman's may have fought some tough villains in his time, Black Panther's fought tough villains and other heroes, and other hero teams. To say Batman beats him easily is down right ridiculous, in my opinion. It's a close call, it can go to either, although I'd say T'Challa has the advantage.

What Tron said

Tron, is Eric Killmonger the guy you are talking about? The guy that is better than panther?

Black Panther takes this.

Dr.Dooms or Bats??? whod win........Dooms

Yes, Tron was referring to Eric Killmonger. Time and time again, Eric has come back, beaten T'Challa and thrown him off of a waterfall. Through a series of events, he's actually now the Chief of the Panther Clan, with full rights to the title of Black Panther. Hopefully someone picks up the Panther character soon and touches upon this whole situation, lest T'Challa languish in limbo for another 20 years.

God dang, that sounds like a pretty grim ending for T'Challa. May I ask, does Eric have any enhancements like T'Challa? Or is he all natural?

*Sigh*

Doom takes . Batman's good, but Doom's on a totally different level. Here's a fantasy battle site talking about it:

http://www.electricferret.com/fights/issue_171.htm

And with an exception with a few things, that's pretty how I see that fight going.

Back to topic:

My money's still on T'Challa

Very true....Doom respects no one! (except Reed, Panther and maybe 1 more person)

that one more person would be me, me and doom are tight
drunk - me and doom

Killmonger was originally all natural, not even any herbs to give him a little boost. Since being resurrected by this sect that follows him, the bad juju in the mystical temple where they resurrected him gave him mild super human strength. There was a Black Panther/Deadpool crossover that was pretty good, a few years back. Killmonger appears in it as Panther after T'Challa has abdicated the position. I forget the complete storyline, as Priest's stories often get complicated (but never muddled, he's a great writer, currently on Cap and Falc, pick it up!).

On topic--I'd go with Panther.

Quick questions, Scarlet, If you don't mind. Would you say that Eric's mild enhancements are like Panther, Captain America type? Or does it make him even stronger than that? I heard he beat Panther multiple times. Did he face him before or after he got enhancements? Or both?

black panther= http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/blackpanther.htm
batman http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/batman.htm

Batman's training, I think is more intense than T'Challa because batman needs to train every now and then so that he is in tip top condition. While T'Challa does not need to train as much. Why because of the heart shaped herbs that he ate and it has enhancing properties.

And I read somewhere that batman endurance training include going out in to the vacuum of space without anything for five sec or minute. (You did not hear this from me, I am just mainly repeating what somebody else said.)

Killmonger beat Panther both before and after his enhancements. I'm thinking he's around 4 tons or so, maybe lower maybe a little higher. Nothing ridiculously strong that the likes of Panther hasn't defeated before. However, before his enhancement, he was a superb combatant, having never been bested by T'Challa. Killmonger has since taken the heart shaped herb, boosting his levels up again, however it remains to be seen what his final abilities are.

Panther still trains constantly, the herb isn't some wonder potion, it's more like a hella awesome dietary suppliment, he also started training years before Batman, and attended universities throughout the world, learning more fighting techniques as he went along.

As for Batman going into space unaided, that is just...retarded. Whoever wrote that needs to be slapped. Very. Hard.

Thanks for the link Supremthor. I didn't know Panther had enhanced sight and hearing along with his physical enhancements.

Thanks for the info on Killmonger, Scarlet. Jeez, he beat the enhanced Panther when he had no enhancements. He sounds like a bad mother fudger. I would hate to see who messes with him now that he has enhancements.

Yes, Killmonger always has been and always will be one bad mother fudger. Even before his enhancements, he was peak human, so it's not like he was just some guy off the street.

Priest's run, and John's Avengers run with Panther in it showcase T'Challa's great abilities. He beat up Iron Man, while taking over Stark Industries with one phone call. Stark came back at him with an silent running armor meant to give him an immunity to Panther's anti-metal claws. T'Challa uses a water deluge to set off and find the vents in his armor, claws at them forcing a plasma burst into the armor short circuiting it. Stark comes at him again 15 minutes later, he beats him and shuts down Stark's artificial heart. BAD. ASS.

in a one on one fight in an arena panther wins. im not sure about any where else

no anywhere else too, Panther is more agile and has more manuverability due to his suit and claws

His suit gives him more manueverability?

Panther may have been trained longer, but let's be honest, you don't learn squat when 2 or 5.

Batman would be in better condition. He's out on the streets every single night. As opposed to being bothered with running a country. Bats just lets his executive officers take care of it.

Bruce runs a company, Panther runs a country, two completely different things. Wayne doesn't have to worry about laws, or making sure his ppl can eat and live well. even though he gives to charities, he doens't govern ppl. He jusdges criminals at night in ONE city, much different than running an entire country fulll of all kinds of ppl. There is not one African country where only one language is spoken.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at?

my point is Panther's responsibilities are far greater than bruce's therefore taking more time away from superhero stuff. Panther is rich too, but money is of little consequence. Bruce don't gotta do much, T'challa does.

Namor would be that one. There are a few (very few) people that impress him a bit, Like Tony Stark's tech knowledge, but his respect list a very small one.

And Batman going into space with nothing? Yeah, those writers DO need to be slapped. Hard.

I don't think anyone ever wrote that.

But I think the point of Batman being in better condition stands.

This is the same reason I give batman the fighting edge. Keep that sword sharp if you know what I mean.

Plus, Batman has more experience. Panther may have had tactical training and may even have quite the brain for it but nothing beats hands on experience.

true

Panther's fighting goes outside the realm of pure martial arts...He is just as efficient at hand to hand as Shang-Chi in the MU. Batman is a good fighter but has never demonstrated half the ability, athleticism, or agility of the panther. Its hard to even explain everything right now...Im surprised there is a thread about this, but I expect it will be good...

.

For batman it is not a train constantly it is a must.



Why does batman have to show all the stuff that you mensioned when he can finish you off in a more clean cut manner

Panther has been running Wakanda since he was 13, and had been training since he was able to walk. While Bruce was still crying in Alfred's lap, T'Challa was beating face in lethal combat. He's quelled numerous uprisings--himself fighting on the front lines out in the battlefields. Running Wakanda requires as much physical tact as mental acquity, as it is a warrior kingship, if someone can defeat you in combat, you lose your title as the Black Panther. He has to do as many backflips as John Hancocks to keep his position.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=24592
a great Black Panther thread showcasing many feats.

yea see...i think people only support Bats here cuz they dont know much about Panther yet....but after this thread they will.

thanks for the site you provided those are some cool stuff that the panther did. but......

night wing moves like panther from what I've just read on that web.

Good to see this thread hasn't died. I'm still waiting on Marvel to showcase a Black Panther vs. Batman event. I've written both companies to try and get one and have had little to NO response back. If you're interested I suggest you do the same!

I haven't read comics since before 2000. Have they had a Marvel vs. DC II? If they ever do, Batman vs. Panther is a probable match up. Considering that in the first one, Batman beat Captain America, the next match up should be against Panther or Daredevil.

P.S.- I know Batman beat the good Captain because of votes. Don't shoot me Cap fans.

Just as efficient as Shang-Chi? This severely discredits you in my eyes and I suspect it does the same for others.

And since when is batman not athletic? He slings more than Spiderman.

Running Wakanda may be as physically tasking as it is mentally. But you just agreed to my point. lIt's 50/50. This is not the case for Bruce. Looking up on his business and doing detective work is like solving crossword puzzles during his lunch break. It's 90/10 for him (considering the guy's gotta rest.) And neither is as effecient as Shange-Chi, anyone who honestly thinks that is off there rocker, he is 100 percent fight.

Nightwing may move "like" Panther...however, Panther is practically the pinnacle of mortal hand to hand combatants in the MU...can this be said for Bats in the DCU? Furthermore, like people have already mentioned, Panther was trained since birth to be a warrior and ruler of an entire Nation...by the way Wakanda is considered the most technologically advanced country on Earth behind Latveria. Much of the technology is contributed by T'Challa himself. Although it was written in 1962 and kinda lame by today's standards, BP neutralized the FF. I dont think anyone would argue in favor of Bats over the FF...well no one thinking ratianally. But it wasnt that lame, we could always dig up some Issues of Batman from 1962. I had to stick up for Bats when people said he would lose to Wolverine last year. I thought it would be close but Bats would win. Panther on the other hand is a superior fighter and brain than Bats...not in my opinion, but by definition. No one has ever beaten him in one on one battle, and he is one of the top non-enhanced brains on the planet. As in one of those posts, Panther took on Iron Man with his bare hands...nothing but a spandex costume and still had the upper hand. Could Bats take on Iron Man without any gadgets and just his own fighting skills and agility? HA! Bats has difficulty with plenty of guys in DC. BP has routinely beaten people without prep time who operate on a higher level than himself. He usually surprises people. Bats is often beat up the first time around then comes back after some pre time and gives the ass kicking.

Wynndar, someone has beaten Panther in one on one battle. Read the previous Scarlet Spider had posted. Panther beating FF and Iron Man would not be credible by most fans, but you can still use horrible writing if you want. But, you must allow horrible writing for Batman's case as well. Batman has beaten Superman with no kryptonite. Batman beat the Hulk. Batman even beat Carnage, hand to hand. Those I can confirm, but I even heard Batman managed a way to not be killed by Darksied. Panther can't do anything that. Neither should Batman under good writing, but I had to put that on the table, since you put Panther's bad writing exploits on there. Panther being the pinnacle of hand to hand in MU is an idea held by few. Most give the honor to Shang Chi. Panther is superior in fighting in brains by definition? I mean, what can I say? You just made that up. I am not making a case for Batman. I'm not saying he gets my vote. But, you just starting going too crazy.

Absolutley, and it would be more true if said of Bats, as per arguements just recently training. And without mystical herbs or a super soldier serum.

As per the rest of your arguements, if the same poor writing applied to Bats he would have done it better and with more style than BP.

About prep time, there has been a lot of time when Bats gets attacked at randon by a formidable enemy and Bats still takes him down. "Hush" is 1 out of many examples. Prep time only insures Bats victory.

...Panther wins hands down. He is not

not what?

Let me fill it in there Abbadon.

If Batman were a pair of gym shorts...

...Panter wins hands down. He is not going to loose to a pair of gym shorts! Otherwise, Batman all the way.

haha...nice one with the gym shorts...Shang Chi is a martial artist...Panther emulates the hunting pattern of a panther...he is not necessarily a martial artist. In combat he is basically equally efficient because he encorporates tech and strategy into his attacks so often. Iron man is not the only example of BP taking on an oponent with nothing but a spandex costume...Bats is still incapable of fighting like that...the only situation i recollect of someone taking out panther with relative ease is the the Dark Raider...he would easily take out Bats too considering he had killed the fantastic four countless times over.

Batman has punched Superman barehanded on several occassion. It didn't hurt Supes (except when he had a kryptonite ring on) but my point is he did it and got close to breaking his hand several times. This is realistic. I have no idea how Black Panther beat Iron Man (unless you're talking about tony stark) with out any equipment. And as I said before, If the same crappy writing incorporated Bats in BP's stead he would have certainly done it and done it better.

Again, comparing BP or even Batman to Shang-Chi is simply wrong,

Supes has demonstrated he is more durable than substances like adamantium in the MU....what is the point in mentioning batman hitting him...it would have no effect unless the writer had no intention to make sense...the link posted earlier shows BP out fighting Iron Man if you would like to see it...I assumed you had looked at the links.

That he nearly broke his hands. How do you best Iron Man, someone capable of being a heavyweight (if only for a few seconds,) with human powers if not with some sort of edge or crappy writing?

The best way to understand an unknown character is to read the actual comics and past titles he's/she's been involved in. Unfortunately you don't have the time or patience to do so. Anyway here's a FAQ's page concerning the Black Panther's abilities and more. Note: This page was fashioned by the former and greatest writer of Black Panther, Christopher Priest.

http://phonogram.us/comics/panther/faq.htm

Please...... and you consider this a victory, correct me if I am wrong but the last I checked black panther is under some heart shaped herb that gives him enhanced strength, abilities, and vision. Is this not so.
Let me tell you something if batman had enhancements on black panthers level then kicking Iron man butt, five ways from sunday would come easily for batman than it did for black panther.

And the panther seems to be mentally on stable why did I say this because a page does not pass and you did not hear him say my panther strength, or my panther this. Whether you believe it or not go to batman and start saying things like this, you have already lost because he is going to pick your words and find what he needs.

and one more thing Lady Shiva is by far better than chan chi. one of the top dc martial artist and still holding the position despite a lose to batgirl (cain).

Just on a side note. Both Wayne and T'Challa have an intellect that would cause many in their prospective Universes to become green with envy. Does anyone actually believe that Wayne's resources and entrepreneurship could out match that of T'Challa and Wakanda? Just a reminder -- Wakanda is a NATION. One of the leading technological wonders in the Marvel Universe. They even supply the Avengers with all of their gear. Something tells me that this battle wouldn't stop merely with a physical altercation.

Btw, I wonder if T'Challa would even sully his hands with Batman. He could just sic The White Wolf and the Hatut Zeraze on him. They'd be a powerful enemy to take on especially since they're cloaked, undetectable to heat and since their suits are vibranium -- they can't be heard coming.

Panther wins, next yhread

Panther beat Stark because T'Challa joined the Avengers under the intent of watching them and making sure they weren't a threat to Wakanda. He has Stark's Iron Man schematics memorized--all he had to do was disrupt his force fields, then with his anti-metal claws, which made a total mess of Iron Man, he took out his oxygen gel packs (which go into his fuel mix, thus taking away flight, weapons and life support systems). He beat Iron Man because he had the upper hand.

Panther does have enhancements, but it's nothing that makes him stronger or faster than anyone could be outside of intense training. He is one of the best athletes and combatants on the earth, and would be regardless of the herbs.

Panther does train constantly, as he lives in a much more dangerous position than Batman. Batman chooses to do what he does. Panther was born to it and needs to be ready at a moment's notice. As far as his style--he threw the entire world economy into a free fall, with one phone call, just to spite an opponent. Wayne could never do that.

Actually, Scarlet Spider, Panther would not be quite as good without the enhancements. If you check out the link given by Nathaniel Grey, it shows that Panther's herb further enhances his physical stats in addition to his intensive training. The herb also give him enhanced senses. It is also stated that the herb may make him a little faster than Captain America and Cap has peak speed. So, that kinda stuff is definitely beyond training. Nobody is going to argue that Panther wouldn't be one of the best fighters even without the herb. Its just that he wouldn't be quite as good as he is now.

The one phone call you are referring to is the battle with Ironman. And besides anyone can send the stock market in to a downward spiral. All you need to do is to start building up false entries until when the time is right then you act, on it. But with the panther I am guessing he needs an inside man or hack in to the system.

True on the fact dc is a paradise island compared to marvel. But the fact still remains that batman trains far more the panther.

Because if batman does not train in one month he is going to drop and some dude with a gun can put him down where as for the panther he would still be able to take who ever that was without any problem. (Note I never said the panther does not train) but what I did say was that batman's training is more intense and he needs to do it more often. As to compare to the panther. Let's face T'challa can afford to go months without training (Due to the herb he eats), but batman can not.

And Wayne industries is the one that supports the jla headquarter floating in orbit and in the moon. And also creating jobs countries all over the world.

Panther nationalized all foreign trusts in Wakanda and disolved their parliament, destabalizing their world market--he didn't do it with hacking.

Sure, Batman probably puts in an extra hour of training a day, however Panther has been doing it far longer, since he was a kid, his methods were perfected and improved long before Wayne's. The herb boosts his natural physical prowess, it does not magically grant him super abilities. He can take as much of it as he wants, if he does not exercise, his strength and speed will wane just like any man's. He cannot afford to go months without training, and he wouldn't even if he could because of his convictions.

Wakandan tech supports all the Avengers' needs. Wakanda also has its multi-purposed attack vehicles, sea worthy, capable of super sonic flight, space worthy etc. He hid one of these in a New York bay, succesfully cloaked from everyone. Anywhere he wants to go, anywhere he wants to invade he can. Wayne's business is nothing to scoff at, but it cannot compete against Panther's country's vast resources.

Here some info on Batman for thos of you who think you know him:
-Batman began his physical and mental conditioning when he was 11.
-Began intense physical training and weight lifting at age 12.
-Trained in the US for various martial arts for 3 years.
-Gained degrees in criminal science, forensics, computer science, chemistry and engineering by the time he was 16.
-Became 2st and 3nd degree black belt in Karate, Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido by the time he was 17.
-Trained and became proficient with all small arms and basic vehicles operations.

By the time he was 18 he:
-Studied commando style operations with small mercenary units.
-Left US to further study martial arts under specialized masters.
-Other skills: knife throwing, escrima, melee weapons mastery, body control
-Other skills: disguise, diverse environmental training, combat driving, savate, kungfu
-Other skills: security systems, illusion/sleight of hand, blind fighting
Info courtesy of http://www.starnet-database.com

All this by the time he was 18....Batman could beat the Panther. Like I said, he has beaten enhanced humans with no prep-time before (Deathstroke, Bane, Killer Croc to name a few) and some of the greatest martial artists of DC (Lady Shiva, Deathstroke Rah's Al Ghul-at least in swordsmanship)

Scarlet Spider, the herb does grant him super abilities. Besides anything physical it augments, the herb also gives him super senses. Such as taste, smell, hearing, and night vision. That info comes from Christopher Priest, a Black Panther writer. I am pretty sure that a Panther writer knows more about Panther than any of us.

black panther=Talents:
Acrobatics, Tumbling, Animal Handling, Martial Arts A, B, C and E, First Aid, Demolitions, Engineering, Detective, Marksman, Weaponsmaster, Leadership, Languages: Swahili-Arabic-French-English-Russian-Spanish-Hausa

batman=Talents:
Martial Arts A,B,C,D,E, Wrestling, Acrobatics, Tumbling, Detective(+3CS), Disquise/Actor, Resist Domination, Marksman, Weaponsmaster, Weapon Specialist: Batweapons, Computers, Forensics, Psychology, Kit bashing, Pilot: Helicopters to Jet Fighters, Horsemanship, Escape Artist, Leadership, Tracking, Medicine, First-Aid, Law, Law-Enforcement, Criminology, Engineering, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Biochemistry, Computer Engineer, Electronics, Languages: English, French, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, Mandarin, Cantonese, Filipino, Korean, Arabic, Turkish, Polish, German, Latin, Greek, Italian, Portuguese, French, Hebrew, Thai, Vietnamese

It was actually Bob Almond, an artist/inker who worked on the series that kept Priest straight on all of the facts.

T'Challa was master of lethal combat by the age of 6. He's taken down Mephisto, Nightmare, Iron Fist, Man Ape, Klaw and more. He's faced the prospect of an international war with Atlantis, Latveria, Genosha and Lemuria.

They both have an equally impressive list of feats, and at this point we're just running around in circles. I still go with Panther, as he is a favored character of mine. A fight would be close, and it could go to either of them, but I would root for T'Challa.

It looks like that stuff tilts the scales in Batman's favor but I don't play that game. What the hell does Martial Arts A,B,C,D,E mean?

bEAT'S ME and as of when batman started his training is subject to debate. Because in justice league unlimited in KID STUFF. After him wonder woman, GL, superman had done what heroes do.

Wonder Woman said that it was fun to be a kid again to batman but batman said I stopped being a kid when I was eight years old.

Could he had started his straining at a younger age?

Wayne industries provided a one vehicle do all
capable of space flight ( opens a wormhole to approach light speed or maybe faster)
faster and more agile than any submarine.
can reach super sonic flight.
battle ready all though it cannot take brute punishment for long.



And on the training thing I said that batman trains more on the base that if they both decide to stop training whose skill is going to suffer more? Batman skills is going to suffer while the panther is still going to be in an ok condition. (Note I did not say good, or great)

I think the "my child hood ended when I was 8 years old" probably refers to the murders of his parents. After something like that happens, I would theorize that one loses any semblance of a childhood.

You could be right

I said it ealier Batman started trainung at 11.

T'Challa was educated at several prestigious universities in the U.S. and Europe ( total 14 universities ), earning highly advanced degrees in physics (Ph.D.), engineering, economics, political science and psychology. T'Challa is a master of several disciplines of martial arts, including some ninjitsu techniques of hypnosis and mind control. Hm. I think those were all unmentioned.

Anyway let me list some FACTS.
Fact; T'Challa is stronger than Batman. ( He can lift 750 lbs. )
Fact; T'Challa is FASTER than Batman. ( He's African -- come on. )
Fact; T'Challa is more agile than Batman. ( He can RUN up walls. )
Fact; T'Challa posses the same if not more resources than Batman.
Fact; T'Challa is just as if not more durable than Batman. ( Leaps 60 storys down and lands without a sound or damage. )
Fact; T'Challa has more BANK than Batman. ( Yes, this is a fact. )
Fact; T'Challa education wise is just as if not smarter than Batman. ( Look above. )
Fact; T'Challa's enhanced senses, tracking ability, vibranium suit give him the EXTRA advantage over Batman.

My Conclusion; T'Challa 9.5 Batman 7.5

Batman can bench 725.

BP's physical advantages seem minimal.

Batman has more experience.

Batman 10/BP 5

Just curious, how old is Batman suppose to be currently? An estimation. I doubt he's got as much experience as T'Challa. BP runs a country which effects more lives than Wayne Enterprises. He's been cultivated since BIRTH to be a warrior/King. How do you assume Bruce can match that? I love Batman and have collected his comics much longer than BP, but even I know when to call it. In a FAN vote -- Batman would win. Without a doubt. But going with the FACTS Batman is outmatched. Black Panther matches him in wits and cunning. Out matches him in speed and strength...come on now.

i dont even think the fan vote would be a factor....BP has consistently demonstrated he is one of the toughest and resourceful fighters on earth...he jus doesnt lose...and he is a hero....its almost like cheating...

Batman is in his early 30's I believe.

I've never seen T'Challa as a true " hero ". He's a King first and foremost. He does what's needed for his country and anything else is just extracurricular. But man, a fan vote would be a factor. Most people don't even know who T'Challa is or his abilities. This thread has proven that time and time again. Besides look at the Marvel vs. DC comics. Hulk was beaten by Superman, Namor by Aquaman. ( I agreed with Quicksilver losing....he's just not as fast. ) Everyone would vote Batman.

Dude your "runs a country" arguemetn just proves my point. Batman has more time devoted to dirty work, not politics.

Thus that is why his training is more intense.
batman also when to other prestigious schools and colleges. and got what ever he was going for. And he even had time to study foreign languages. So what is the point in bring the schools that they went to.

Somehow I doubt that Bruce Wayne's training regiment is far more intense than T'Challa's. For one Wayne is able to put down his duties as Batman. He doesn't have to BE Batman. He can hide from his enemies when needed and they'd probably never be the wiser. Unlike T'Challa who's always under the public eye and always has to deal with the conflicts of his kingdom ( which has been taken over on more than one occasion. ) and those outside of his kingdom. He can't stop being the Black Panther. ( Unless he's dethroned ) He's always a target and always has to be ready at a moments notice. Batman can take some down time -- T'Challa can't even if he wanted to.

I was merely listing the proficiency that T'Challa has in the fields of study that he'd gone through ( advanced degrees in physics Ph.D, engineering, economics, political science and psychology. ) He's probably just as if not more technologically savvy than Batman. Yes I know Batman has supplied devices and leading technology to the JL well, T'Challa has done the same for the Avengers.

We could argue about their resources and gadgets all day but when it comes down to it Batman and Black Panther would have to fight hand to hand. They're BOTH skilled fighters with experience in battles that are too numerous to count. The deciding factors would be endurance, strength and speed. They're just about par on every other front except those. Black Panther is STRONGER, FASTER, more AGILE and has more endurance and durability than Batman. That's a fact no one can argue their way out of. He just is. Even Batman would admit it. And when you're facing a foe who's just as adept as you those advantages mean everything. But again in a FAN vote the Caped Crusader would win. He's got a stronger fan base. But matching their skills -- he'd not have a chance.

Politics is dirty work! Panther easily trumps him here lol.

There schooling is about equal. Wayne learned foreign languages at Universities, T'Challa grew up learning them as a young prince. He knows a bevy of African tongues (including a proficiency in ancient Egyptian), English, Greek, German (and other Germanic root languages), Latin, Spanish, French (and by extension most likely the other Romance languages) and more are being discovered as the story allows.

Wayne enterprises is still supplying the JLA.
How can you explain Kilmonger defeating the Black Panther before he even had the chance to eat the herb?

Rofl. Come on people! Can you not see that T'Challa has Bruce Wayne's number? All he needs to do is make a call and Batman will be flippin' Burgers at Mickey D's. ( Calm down Bat-fans, it's a joke. )

So what about Kilmonger?

Kilmonger's body was genetically enhanced so that he could take on the Black Panther. That on top of his already superior skills aided him in taking down T'Challa. Not to mention the fact that Kilmonger could never use the herb. You see if someone who's not of the royal family takes it they become very ill and die. Kilmonger at the time went into a coma ( he was strong enough to survive due to his genetic enhancements ) which he later got out of.

LATER ( Black Panther #61. ) he was able to synthesize a FALSE herb which he could take.

He later gave some of the false herb to Kasper Cole, who later became the White Tiger at the end of the Panther series and appeared in The Crew. Great series.

I was informed that Killmonger also beat Panther before he had any enhancements whatsoever. That is why Killmonger is a bad mother fudger.

Exactly that is what I am referring on some wrote in the lines of that.

Killmonger is an equally adept fighter and thinker. He was a teacher at MIT for awhile, and has a major grudge against T'Challa. He hates him with such passion that it's inconcievable for T'Challa to be able to just pop him in the nose and be off. He had devoted himself to seeing the downfall of the Bashenga line.

As far as I've read in the comics, Kilmonger was genetically enhanced before he took the heart-shaped herb which caused him to go comatose. Nothing before that ( to my knowledge ) states that when he took on T'Challa he wasn't genetically enhanced in some way.

He did not become genetically enhanced until he was resurrected in the latest Black Panther series. It was a side effect from the hoodoo juju temple they used to bring him back. Before that he was just a guy--with lots of training and hatred who whooped on T'Challa.