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I want to know why LOTR gets 11 awards and Matrix dosn't even get a nomination? Is the Matrix too complicated to get an award? Forget LOTR, that movie is unoriginal and uncreative. The Matrix Trilogy gets everything in my view

Dude, it is the Q that will never be answered correctly becus the academy looked at the acting, the ending. Since it was a two piece movie, they may have not known which one deserved the oscar. I believe that the Matrix should have atleast deserved a nomination over friggin Master and Commander

it wasnt submitted is the answer that circulated around here in numerous threads...
i can believe that...cant explain, but i can believe it.
anyway, Keanu Reeves coulda at least been nominated for best actor...Revs was a hell of a lot better than some other movies.

M&C was a good movie, if you ask me... Anyways...
Well, quite simply, they just weren't good enough... The original Matrix kicked ass, these two were just "good"... On a scale of one to ten, I'd give it a 7.

Though Keanu Reeves should've been nominated for best actor he's awesome
So is Carrie-Ann Moss
I thought that it'd at least get nominated for the acting

hmmmm...

i mean, Keanu did more work than any of the other Actor nominated. He went through 2 and a half years of straight work. He deserved atleast a friggin nomination

n sean penn did wut, liek 3 months? lol wait, penn won rite? Johnny Depp shoulda won over him too...

Here's the scenario that I've read about:

Matrix did not recieve nomination because it wasn't submitted. Why? Because of the release of two movies within one year on the same topic for one - it would end up competing with itself making the nominations in things like "Special Effects" "Costume Design" and a few others limited to Matrix Revo, Matrix Reloaded, and LOTR-ROTK.

Other sources say that Warner Bros only submitted Revolutions to keep the two films from canceling each other out.

Another aspect that coincides with these two is that the First Matrix won several awards: Best Sound, Best Sound Effects Editing, Best Visual Effects, and Best Film Editing. While LOTR, won only visual effects in 2002 and 2003 and was expectant to pull a clean sweep this year - and they did. Like they held off and the oscars this year for the LOTR was like saying "One hellava ride guys."

While I am a die hard Matrix fan, I believe that LOTR deserved what they got and would have hated to see either Matrix movie against LOTR - just as I hated seeing Pirates of the Carribean loose out.

So with the bits and peices that I've read, I think the Matrix movies were left out because there was a universal feeling of "You gave us a good show, and had a great run, but it's a year we need to recognize some others and give them a chance."

Wow, very good thoughts on that Metamorphisis...

Meta> I love your big and genuine posts.

good point

*walks in* LOTR ricks *runs out*

no he isnt.
i like the films and hes good as neo but hes not a great actor.

ssssh! ok just sssssh!

GOD, how many times hav i heard this. Neo is wut he acted. He's supposed to be like he was. He was a great actor when he cried like a girl when Trinity died. that was acting. i didnt think he could pull it off

Alpha

Wow...think that's the first time that anyone's ever said they like my LONG posts!! LoL

JKozzy{/b]

Long time no see. how you been??

Mook

Neo's not a great actor, huh? So going from laid back surfer-boy in Bill & Ted's Excellent adventure, to a young vigilante gang member opposite Keifer Sutherland in Brotherhood of Justice, to the preppy uptight FBI agent turned surfer opposite Patric Swazye in Point Break, to a strung out information smuggler in Johnny Mnemonic, to the dazed Thomas Anderson in Matrix 1, then the more confident and self aware Neo in Matrix 3, and ending as a young doctor who makes house calls and has a slightly grotesque interest in women more than twice his age in Something's got to give opposite Jack Nicholson does not show a range of ability?

Damn, then I guess that eleminates 90% of Hollywood off the list of good actors, including Jack Nicholson who always plays a nutcase, or someone with some sort of issue that causes him to be screwed up, Al Pacino who always plays a bad a$$, in your face mo-fo, and Rober Deniro who always plays the quiet, self assured, average Joe with a backbone rolls.

No, Keanu is a good actor who, like many, has gotten a bad wrap. I won't say he's the best, but his performance is always quite enjoyable.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree though...

everything u just said was....PERFECT

omg *tear* that was well said my friend.....you have done the guy justice hug

I can accept and understand no nods for acting, or directing, or story... but no nominations for SFX? Baffling...

Lord of the Rings sucks.

People need to put aside their personal crushes on movie actors and obsessions with their favorite movies to understand what critical decisions go into choosing Oscar nominations. There is no way these movies were on the level of the movies that were nominated. That is the facts, regardless of anyone's personal attachments to the movies or stars in them. It would be laughable for these films to be nominated for anything other than their technical achievements (which were very good, but still would have not won out over LOTR). And I'm not dissing the movies here...I'm only speaking objectively, not as a fan of any movie or actors.

Are u serious that Keanu deserves an oscar? His acting is horrible. I think that Both matrixes should have at least been nominated for best visual affects but other than that they shoulnt be nominated for anything.

Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions deserved nominations for: VFX (visual effects), original score (orchestrated music), and original story (don't think that's even a category). Yes..they most definitely did. Warner Bros picked Revolutions as the one to submit for competition, because they didn't want both movies to cancel each other out while they were being voted on. I would have picked Reloaded, myself, simply because of the razors edge effect that Revolutions had on audiences (you loved it or hated it - nothing in between) - and it would have been stronger in the visual effects category (the highway scene, the twins, The Million Smith March against Neo, Zion, and, ofcourse, the re-invention of bullet time to make Cinema Time (a seamless variation of bullet time - it had it all!)

However, like I've mentioned previously, LOTR had not received their due in the past two years, and it was widely speculated (and all but acknowledge at the Academy Awards) that they were waiting for the release of ROTK to give them a clean sweep. The effects in the LOTR trilogy was just as deserving (and even more so since the first Matrix did take the Oscars in the FX categories). I think that it would have been shameful to try to make the two compete, aside of the fact it would be comparing apples and oranges, the Matrix crew has had their awards, now the LOTR's crew has theirs, and next year we can give someone else a chance.

Hugo best actor, i stand by that

OMG the one person in the world that agrees with me. I still havnt seen the third one. Ive made up my mind. Till the day i die, i will not watch that crap

When he was crying for Trinity, that was good acting.......well, i would say atleast better then i expected from the guy

Alias, Free your mind!

Definitely...

Ditto

I won't argue Best Actor, that's completely subjective, and dependent on what movie you're watching. Lawrence Fishborne could be a candidate too, or Grace that place the Oracle...what about the guy who played the Architect? No, best actor is to much of an opinion unless you're a theatrical judge who's subjective enough to cast aside favorites, and see through the difference in the rolls.

Whether you hate LOTR or not, you still have to acknowledge the amount of effort, and the level of artistic direction the movie took. I read the books years ago, and I thoroughly enjoyed the movies. I find it fascinating to see some people just bash another movie, like LOTR, in the same manner that others have bashed the Matrix Trilogy, yet when someone attacks the Matrix they have acted, in the past, as if that person has no right. Again, that's completely subjective, and many of us are a bit bias to personal opinion than technical detail. But, to counter The One Himself when he said:

Your mind is not free if you cannot accept the things that you cannot change, the differences we have, or the variety of cultural, artistic, and political tastes.

I, myself, loath Gone with the Wind, and the God Father Trilogy, but I have enough respect, and background to be able to recognize them as 4 of the greatest movies ever made.

That is the path to free your mind.

That was the scene when most of my friends finally realized how BAD of an actor he is. I could have fake cried better than that. Although I did like the movies (a little disappointed with part 3), I would never in my life call Reeves a good actor. Any body can say, "No," "What if I can't, what happens if I fail," and "Bullshit."

*cuagh* ahem...........................................................BURN!!!! damn good post man

Not even the special effects deserved to be nominated for an award because even that had no particular direction, style or purpose in trying to enhance the two crap sequels (I try and believe they were never made in the first place)

god i wish ppl would give the guy a brake.....it makes me sad

? Just pick up a single quote and forget all the things that someone put before in this forum is not the right way to counter his or her ideas. Look: I always respected all the opinions and differences (U can ask anyone here) and I just said to Alias give a chance to the LOTR trilogy without any prejudice. I consider myself a hard matrix fan but I cannot come here and just say: Lord of the Rings is crap..cause it's not! That is the point: Watch the movie to have elements to hate it or like it. On the other hand, I liked Revolutions, and I think it deserved at least a nomination for SFX.
So you see? I'm not here to change Alias or anyone else mind with my posts.

When U said:

"But, to counter The One Himself when he said:





Your mind is not free if you cannot accept the things that you cannot change, the differences we have, or the variety of cultural, artistic, and political tastes."

That applies perfectly to you...It seems to me that u thought I was trashing Matrix (or even AliasNeo post) or something...So you felt the need to counter immediately my post. I ask: Is your mind free?

i agree, keanu did not deserve an oscar, but Hugo Weaving did...

and SFX DID deserve a nomination........the SFX were absolutely amazing....

GO MATRIX>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Special effects are not nominated by the direction of the movie or anything like that, they are nominated solely on the technical side, what, if anything, their impact was on the industry (creating new technologies, enhancing said technologies, etc). If nothing else, you cannot say, if you know anything about the work that went into the movies at all, that the special effects didn't deserve to win. The variations of Bullet Time, the advanced developement of the CGI for the Smiths, the Twins, and the highway truck wreck, and even the highway sequence itself have all been awknowledged by the industry for paving the way in special effects mastery, and almost all of the different aspects helped advance the industry as a whole.

If you didn't like the movies, I'm sorry, but being insulting and opinionated without anything to support your ideas is weak. I'm not going to argue opinion, or try to convince you that the movies are the greatest on the planet - you get from them what you put into them - but your post was unfounded as it appears you think the movie's storyline and artistic direction are the only thing judged.

I speak my mind, and try to look at all sides. I decided to counter because your post about LOTR sucking kept coming up after I would mention it in mine. I defend my remarks - that simple. Never do I mean offense, but I'm just blunt like that. Sorry if you have a problem with that, but I don't see how you attach me to a system when I even argue points for things I don't believe in, though you wouldn't know that if you've not read all my posts or met me in person. Just as an example though, I don't believe in drugs, booze, cigarettes, or religion, but I will argue to my last breath to protect the rights those who want to shoot heroine, like drinking themselves to death or inhaling toxic fumes from a poisonous plant, or warp their minds with an altered sense of historical reality to do just that because I think everyone should be free to make their own choices - the only requirement is that they should be well informed instead of acting like lemmings.

So shortly - I may disagree with you, or you may be offended by me - but if I'd back you up and still openly disagree with you. So I don't care if you hated LOTR or not, that's your opinion, I was just commenting that you should step back from your opinions and acknowledge the artistry and the work put into the movies from a unbiased technical aspect. To, love it or hate it, keep an open mind. That's all.

Once again you missed the point... I don't have any problems with your posts feel free to post anything you want. But I don't know why I have the sensation you still reading few sentences instead of my entire message (for unknown reasons I haven't figure that out). Then I just felt the need to explain somethings.

I said:

"Look: I always respected all the opinions and differences (U can ask anyone here) and I just said to Alias give a chance to the LOTR trilogy without any prejudice"

And you put
"So shortly - I may disagree with you, or you may be offended by me - but if I'd back you up and still openly disagree with you."


I said:

"I consider myself a hard matrix fan but I cannot come here and just say: Lord of the Rings is crap..cause it's not! That is the point: Watch the movie to have elements to hate it or like it.

And u put

"I don't care if you hated LOTR or not, that's your opinion, I was just commenting that you should step back from your opinions and acknowledge the artistry and the work put into the movies from a unbiased technical aspect. To, love it or hate it, keep an open mind. That's all."

"I speak my mind, and try to look at all sides. I decided to counter because your post about LOTR sucking kept coming up after I would mention it in mine."

That is a bit contraditory. It suprises me, cause my thoughts are quite clear IMO. BTW I ask you please: if you can't understand, do not distort them.

u wanna fight?

well i am sure

first off... im back

secondly i love the matrix but reeves did not deserve best actor dont kid urself.. not that some of the nominess did the only thing i was shocked by was the special effects/visual effects stuff and maybe music.. i cant see how matrix cant be involved in those. but oh well its just a silly statue

and oh yea hugo could of been nominated for supporting actor.. hes brilliant

?

Keanu is a great actor. The reason he takes a bad wrap is because of Bill and Ted (still a great movie) but that's all people think he can play, a stupid surfer. But like Meta pointed out earlier, he has range. I mean he's been a surfer, a serial killer, a chosen one to save the word.

And like someone said in here, yes anyone can say lins such as "Bullshit" "no" and "What if I can't". Well guess what? THOSE ARE HIS LINES! And he delivered them brilliantly. The scene with him and the Oracle in Reloaded, everything he said was filled with self-doubt. And just how would you act if you knew you were supposed to save the entire human race?

Keanu+Hugo=GREATNESS!!!

Isn't this a matter of opinion... thought I really don't know how Oscars work...

I would run around buying Pepsi and kick over coke machine's all the while yelling RATATATATAAAAAAA!!!!!

Short and simple, I've read your posts word for word. I wasn't trying to start a fight, just speak my mind. I never said you were attacking my posts, and the implication that I distorted your posts would be distorting mine.

It appears that we're arguing the same thing from opposite positions. And my comments, though I replied to you, they were more for Alias and whomever he replied to when he said

I admit that when I saw that I made an assumption that you were the one he was replying too and that you were making a matrix pun to support his statements about the LOTR sucking. I just didn't want to go back and reread posts that I read in days already past. My apologies if I mistook what was said.

That doesn't change my opinions, which were posted for anyone with prejudice. An obvious miscommunication has apparently happened from both of our sides, but that aside, I don't feel you were attacking my posts, nor should you feel I was really attacking yours - if you did at all.

But please - I may mix details up, or make assumptions when I'm feeling lazy or working on other things, but don't saggiest I'm not intelligent enough to understand. I do - I may be distracted by other things, but I'm quite capable. I just don't want to come off conceited, but I have some achievements to show for it...

That said. I'm done with this. Amnesty granted 'cause there's no point in arguing anymore.

I wonder if someone dosent like LOTR, how is argueing with them really going to help? it's really a dead end deal for both side's your not going to convince anyone with a post no matter how well it's made.

btw they wernt that bad, it's not about ((MY FAVORITE TRILOGY IS BETTER THAN YOURS!!!)) both serie's were ground breaking and will be around for quite some time. dont expect Matrix OR Lotr histeria to die off to soon

Nope, Oscar's have nothing to do with opinion. Especially in the technical and writing fields such as Visual Effects, Sound Effects, Musical Score, Best Adapted screenplay from a book, and Best Screen play. They look at how well the writers did in delivering the plot, how they took a novel and adapted it's descriptions to set directions and actor positioning, how the FX crews create the effects, the challenge behind the effects, and how the new technologies will advance the industry, and how well the composers capture the essence of the movie musically, and how technically well written the compositions are. Also studied are theatrical critiques of each actor, the direction and vision of the directors, the talent of the cinematographers, and the art departments..They don't just vote on what movie they liked the best!

An example is:

Best adapted screenplay - When rewriting a novel for adaption to a movie script, the easy part is the dialog. But when it comes to the actual story, the visuals, actor cue's an positioning - that becomes the hard part. You may be reading a book, and lets say it's an old western cowboy story for simplicity, but you're reading this book and as the plot develops you find out a group of savage indians are looming over this small militia fort to attack. The next line may be as simple as "And the indians take the fort." Those six words may be a 15 minute action sequence in the movie. The writers have to compensate for the lack of description in this case to match the story that's being told.

Visual Effects - This becomes a very unique field. New technology is being developed all the time, and the crews behind each movie almost always encounter a unique problem to their movie. The Matrix is a perfect example of this time and time again. Between bullet time sequences in the first one, to new developmental technology that allowed Hugo Weaving to play thousands of the same person. While doubles and triplicates have had their place in the movies it took an entire new technology to realistically portray Hugo's face and mannerisms so accurately on such a large scale. Multiple characters used to be edited into a film by simply filming a scene twice with the actor playing all of his parts separately, and then they would overlap the film (or double expose in some cases) to make a seamless integration, but that was an expensive time consuming task on small scale and virtually impossible on a large scale. They developed new software for the Matrix movies, including advancements on Alienware's Maya 4.5 Unlimited (a several thousand dollar program for CGI animation used to make the sentinels) and a new software to scan in a render the features of Hugo's facial nuances.

All of the other categories are judged similarly by those in their respective fields.

No, it's not about what trilogy is better, and teh hysteria will definately be around for a while!

I wasn't trying to argue the opinion, just simply point out that, even if you dislike the movies (matrix or LOTR), you still have to give credit where credit is do for the work that was put into both the trilogies. Like I said, I absolutely hate the movies "Gone with the Wind" and the God Father trilogy, but I do recognize that they are probably some of the greatest works of their time, and still are.

um, b/c the movies sucked...simple as that. i admit the special effects were pretty awesome, but the the overall plot of the story just brought the movie down so much...i love the first matrix though. the second one was that bad, but the third was horrible.

I would follow you to the end Venom... I'd follow you to the end.

I think most people dislike the Matrix movies because it's too complicated for their simple minds to understand. But like it's been said, it's your opinon, you either love them or you hate them. Personally I think LOTR sucks and Matrix is better and if you disagree then you are wrong!!! But that's just my opinon


LOTR does deserve some credit tho. 2Fast 2Furious, however, does not

yes, some classic's to me are unappealing and most "claim" they love the nostalgia esq' films becuase they make them feel like there mobster's or that just becuase you like gone with the wind or citizen kane you have class. and liking movie's because of that is lame

F&F suck's but anyone can tell that
and we would take that Coke plant DOWN! YE-YEAH!!

To state simply "The Matrix movies sucked." Assumes an opinion as fact. Sorry but that irritates the hell out of me. The plot was and always has been the point of movies - unless you're a mindless sheep who just wants to see fast car chases and explosions. If that's the case go watch Rambo and Fast and the Furious! I'm not going to disrespect plotless action movies because sometimes you just wanna go and not think, but the matrix is what I like to call "A thinking mans Action movie." So if you disliked the movies - I'm sorry, but don't state opinions as fact, and if you didn't like them, then why are you here talking about them?

VENOMfan

I'm with you to...just two steps behind you - all the way. Who'd pass up free sodas?

ooooo it's much deeper than that, the coke is like the dark side. and to much make's me irregular but that's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off the topic. and really my hate for F&F stem's from the lack of actual movie in the sequal i mean CG race's just becuased they have the technology?. but again I usaully only comment on thing's that either irratate me, or are just blatently biassed, or Im a fan of.
Matrix=great film's all three, they have GREAT depth that most ignore becuase Neo didnt use a thesaurus every scene((the Wachowski's were unfairly ignored))
LOTR was great, visually spectacular.Peter Jackson deserved what he got((even tho hobbit's weirded me out a LOT, and he didnt truly create anything, and i used the word TRULY. so lotr fan's better not get all upody with me))

I also love pointless action movie's but the must be executed with at least a good sound track, and Interesting character's.((I loved kiss of the dragon F****** rad movie)) and my grammar isnt great, every one has their opinion and if they want to they should defend them. I just dont take the time to truly clarify((unless it's a Venom related post))

Some pointless action movies are good, indeed Venom. Kiss of the Dragon rules. When I'm bored it's nice to sit down and watch some good ol' kick @ss!! But the more important issue here is... THE SODA WARS!!!
Coke is the darkside and Pepsi must defend against the evil empire, with the help of the Seirra Ninja's and the Moutain Crew, Pepsi will defeat them

VENOMfan If you ment what I think you ment by "irregular" then that was WWAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY to much information!! LoL But all this talk about soda's made me thirsty, so I'm still there, two steps behind ya!!

For a pointless action flick that had lots of fast cars, some half naked women, and a dialog that you didn't need to listen to - Fast and Furious was alright, but that's all. Other movies are better, but hey, that's life!

LOTR had nothing that was original in it - it was all adapted. ANY real LOTR fan KNOWS this because most of us have read the books more than once over the years. The two most spectacular things about that trilogy is:
1) How true to the book the movies actually stayed!! - Most adapted screenplays something really gets changed, the only thing that happened with these movies is that they were so long things had to be cut!
And 2) how amazingly well done, accurate, realistic, etc etc, the visuals, the make up, the art direction, and all really were! To take something that you see in your mind from when you read a book, or hear in a song, or something of that nature - and transform it into a visual is one thing (I do this as a photographer all the time) - but then, to take something from a novel and to do the same thing on such a large scale and be successful in producing accurately visuals that millions of people recognize immediately as what they pictured with their minds eye - that is astonishing!

The best way to put it is:

How many times have you seen a movie that was based on a book with a fictitious story (not a book that was based on a historical event like Apollo 13) and someone who's read the book says "That was a good movie, but you should read the book. It's so much better!" Now go ask a LOTR fan about their comparison of the movies vs the books and I can almost guarantee you that you'll here what I'm saying: That the movie represents the books so astonishingly well the books and the movie are on equal par!! (Though I still say read the books and savior the story all over again!! LoL)

We're starting to drift off topic and the thread's question has been answered - would anybody be offended if it was closed?? (**Hint Hint** Omega....)

I have the Alpha now what we need is the Omega - "Everything that has an Alpha has an Omega"

very well put escpecially the end....alpha and omega has alway's sounded ominous in a cool way((especially when smiddy says it))

Meta> You want this thread closed?
Anyone have anything else to add?

no i think it's done

Omega
Surprise you??

.......Closing......

Well I started it, but yes, it is done

it was just the timing.. thats all...

Why no nonination? Becus they were crap...

even the 3D wasn't convincing... It looked like final fantasy


Why didn't they stick with the old bulllet time using the actual actors?

GODammit

no oscars for terrible money making hollywood junk

By popular demand this thread is closing