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A friend of mine same age as me 26 a few months back was beaten unconcious at his home, tied up and had to watch 3 guys and a girl abuse his fiance when she came home and interrupted their robbery. He knows who did it he even identified them to the police but the case was thrown out due to lack of evidence.

If I were him I'd have lost the plot and killed them given a chance i'm sure if it was a loved one it happened to.

So the question is. Having ruined 2 peoples lives scarred them for life mentally and physically how far would you be willing to go for your justice and what crimes deserve execution by the state?

normally i'm against death penalty or vigilante justice and so on...but when it comes to abusing girls...you just don't do it.
That story's really sad.
So yeah..i guess i am partial to cracking some skulls open, like you.

I think that every abuser should die.

Who should decide who has EARNED the right to die or not?

The crime described is horrible. I doubt anyone would disagree. Killing the perpetrators doesn't make it all right again. It doesn't change what has happened. But by all means - castrate rapists and child-molestors.

Paedophiles give up any right to life the moment they mess with a child, that I feel very stongly about that. In my eyes theres only 2 punishments either remove their genitalia entirely or execute them....

no point in the death penalty there never was and there never will be

right.
because noone can earn the right to be killed...eanr it in front of an execution comission.
But maybe he has earned it in front of the poor guy who had to watch that. pedofiles and rapers are worse than murderers

yea dexx I agree
but there are far worse penalties than death

If a criminal is a repetitive offendor I said just pull the plug on him/her. What's the point in trying to help an individual that continues to commit crimes? That individual isn't a productive member of society! So what is the point in putting in prison for?

Let the 3 strikes laws be enforce for smaller crimes. I really don't take pity in ppl that are repetitive criminals (even worse murderers). Those ppl twist the law, and they think they can get away with it! Just execute those child molestors!

strong opinions but I disagree

That crime is horrible, such as other crimes, but I' m against the death penalty.

I dont belive in the Death Penlty its a more easy way for the criminal to get away with the crimes he does.
He should be locked away for a very long time where he can reflect on his crime

if someone kills...and you put them on death row your being no better than them


but if they are abusing girls....well what i would do lol....is throw em in the cell with the toughest criminals the country has! then tell em all what they did


you havent done a thing

they get the hell beat outta them

Yes that's not bad ash, but who is going to be paying for his life sentence? In the end who pays for her/his meals? For her/his prison clothes? The tax payers do.

In other words: who flips the bill in the end? The Taxpayers money do! So everytime the government needs to provide prison immates for things like food and clothes, it is the taxpayers that have to pay for those things.

I personally don't feel the need to pay the meal of a guy that has been found guilty (without reasonable doubt) of murder. Is much cheaper to execute an immate that is a repetitive murder.

no death penalty, true...
but maybe a couple of niggas with some blow torches can do the job...medieval style , if you catch my drift.

I had to study an article receantly about a couple of men, braking into a house, beating up and tieing the father and the husband of a women in the house, then repeatedly raping the woman, while forcing the father and husband to watch. Thoe two men got life in prison....

They would probably been killed if they were in a country where capital punishment is enforced, and even though this is such a horrible crime, i dont believe the capital punishment shoul be enforced on anyone.

Life for a life is barbaric and very native. By killing a for example mureder, you are doing the exact thing you just argued is wrong...murdering anther person.
I believe the purpose of justice system is to serve justice, not justice through revenge.

Like Omega said, killing another person, will not make anyones life come back...

dont paid attention to him he doesn't have a clue of what he is talking about.

In my faith the death penalty is EVIL. Im ashamed that most Americans support it. But you see Christians groups ( I support them ) have pleaded to our senators to stop killing prisoners.

Prison women can be reform, And men that have commited a crime should be in prison for the rest of thier life. The United States serioulsy needs to STOP execution is EVIL

that's true...i agree.....but nothing painful we've ever experienced comes even close to how those people felt...so maybe we're not totally entitled to assume what's right and wrong about these...

The death penalty should not be aplied to a woman! did you see the movie MONSTER? That is one example of how wrong the death penalty is!

I would argue the complete reverse. Their opinions are totally subjective. Justice must not be swayed by emotion and must always be independant and objective. Revenge must not come into it.

no human has the right to take the life of another, and it is not cause some one has done it that we have to do it to him or her

Sexism will not impress us, XF. What applies for Males must apply to Females equally.

Correct! Thats why I keep saying that the America should STOP the death penalty! Is plain EVIL! We are all humans!

Many times it is a woman who is the victim.

maybe, but still Justice is Blind, she doesn't look at those things

Then let the Men be punished for that. And if men do it more often, let them be punished more often. But whatever the situation, the same rule must apply to both male and female. You cannot distinguish how to apply the law by gender.

My biggest argument when it comes to capital punishment

Well, I would support death penalty IF and ONLY IF it reduced the number of crimes. Since it has been proved that there is no reducement, then I do not support it.

Yes, we are all humans indeed. But if death penalty scared away criminals, innocent people would be alive. I would prefer them to live, rather than the various murderers/rapists/terrorists and so on

Like I said before the death penalty is EVIL and it should be stop! Especialy in America! I say reform is the best answer!

maybe, but it doesn't scare them away like you said, and still then I would think it is wrong... I think a hard prison in which we keep ppl for the rest of their life might scare of ppl, if not it would be a better sentence imo

death punishment is a proven failed system...it won't work. But i'm saying that ...if we could say that AFTER something like that would happen to us, then it would REALLY have a meaning.
Ofcourse..these things don't happen to THAT many people, so we represent a mojority, and the majority sets the rule....
Though you shouldn't look down at a guy having witnessed the rape of his fiance, if he wants them dead. It's a a feeling you have to have, about not having let them think they got away clean with it, and that it was ok..because it wasn't...not by a long shot

ofc not dexxm I'm not looking down on him. But like Ush said emotions can't make or change the laws.

As I said, if it reduced the crimes, I'd welcome it. We're talking about innocent people that could be saved!
No, no-one has the right to take another's life. But I'm not so sure I would think that way, if someone harmed my loved ones

I hope I would

I think death would be to easy for those guys. That's a truly awful and disgusting crime, and the fact of the matter is, people like that serve no purpose to this world and have no need to be here.

Doing the things they do, I think they give up their right to live, since they do nothing but hurt other people. I think they should be castrated, and then left there to bleed to death from their wound. And while they're dying I think the person who was forced to watch their horrible act should be able to do whatever they want to them.

Perfect timing, I have to get opinions for a debate in English tomorrow

that's revenge not justice

I know

Actually...it known that many people are not scared away by death penalty, if that was the case, America wold have no criminals...

In a state of rage, or desperation, with the idea that you have slighest chance of getting away with it, no murderer or a rapist will stop because there is a death penalty.

Totally agree.

awh..the laws...different issues.....there's no death penalty anymore officially, almost

I dont get your post dexx

And THAT'S why I don't agree with death penalty It has absolutely no result. And there is no death penalty here in Greece, something for which I'm very glad.

I was merely doing a assumption.

Well, they will stop if they are dead.

So what? They'll stop if they are locked up for life. We both know that that was not what Lil meant.

yeah, but what fun would that be?

and the thing is a look up for life has a much higher chance to be reversed if necessairy.

Life in prison for repetitive muderers? Yeah, I can just imagine Usama Bin Laden, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, Glen Stewart Godwin, all nice and comfy behind bars serving a life time sentence. Sure just like that bastard of Manson in that prison.

Is better for humanity to execute these lower than sh*t monsters!! After all they can never escape! Right?. Plus their friends will never forget them.

if you want you can make a prison from which noone can escape, and noone said it should be a comfu ride

Yes, and it could cost more money for tax payers. Is just cheaper to execute them. Is not about revenge is about ending a life that only serves one purpose "to kill another person".

You are the kind of American i was referring to earlier! It is your type that makes the rest of us look bad! In case you havent notice this is international forum! How do you think people in Europe sees us? BAD! Why? because of irational heartless people LIKE YOU!

STOP MAKING THE REST OF US LOOK BAD! YOU DONT REPRENSENT AMERICANS IN ANY WAY!

Xena fan=> ever think about how you make us look? You take everything way too seriously--if people disagree with you, it's not an insult against you. Please, on behalf of this entire board, I ask you to calm down.

Well, I'm against the death penalty. I don't believe that anyone deserves to die, no matter how horrible their crime. However, I have to say that if that happened to my fiance, I might change my mind. I certainly wouldn't just let the police throw the case out.

Spearhead dont speak to me! Im not making anyone look bad I only pointed out how some Americans like windancer make the rest of us look bad with his ideas of capital punishment!

Now run along and go play somewhere else. Okay?

Its funny how a bunch of people come in here, have no idea who anyone else is, yet still act like they run the boards. I've had enough of it! Don't use that "im older than you" shit on me, because if I didn't know any better, you're just a scared little girl who doesn't want to face reality.

Oh for Christ sake, does every thread need to go like this...for goodness sake, give it a rest.

Im gonna start abusing that 'report' button myself now...there is a serious discussion going on now, everyone respect and challange other peope's openions with out flaming and bashing!! Untill now....

Spearhead why dont you mind YOUR own business! I wasnt referring to you in the first place! My comments were for Windancer NOT you!

That's the popular belief, but killing them will only make them martyrs. 20 years from now, another revolt might come up, with revenge for Bin Laden being the rallying cry.

Xena fan > No one cares where the comments were meant to go; you made them about a member. Everyone's been gettting sick and tired of you if you haven't noticed. Now stay on-topic or I will be reporting you again.

It's not going to stop, no matter what we do, there will be an uprising of some sort. Unless we nuke the whole mideast, but that wouldnt be a very good resolution.

I'm not saying it will stop. What I'm saying is we need to take away their excuses for terrorizing otherwise innocent people.

You know what? You're being a complete b!tch. I'm this close *holds up fingers* to reporting you and adding you to my ignore list. You always complain about people going off topic, and you are quite possibly the best example of a person who does that I've ever seen.
Everyone has a right to an opinion, and the right to speak it. Unless a person is the type who stereotypes an entire group based on a single person, it doesn't make all Americans look bad.

That is very true.

Killing them will make another 10 Bin Ladins and Saddam's...


Do you believe in human rights? Well Capital Punishment denies them...by killing soneone on a death row you are ignoring the human rights....

well! how about that! YOU finally said something I most certainly AGREE with! It is wrong to kill another being so capital punishment is WRONG! You're pretty much smart after all.

Personally, I don't believe in human rights. Sure, there are certain rights that humans should be granted inalienably, but the fact is that not everybody believes that these are the same things. The world is such an incredibly diverse place that we will never be able to get all the humans who live here to agree 100% on them. As much as I hate to say it, I believe that the fact is that there are no such things as human rights.

Wait a second. Is she smart because she agreed with you?

*adds Xena fan to ignore list*

I believe so. That's why I'm adding her to my ignore list.

Adding to my last comment though one of the rights I believe humans have is the right to life. That's why I don't believe in Capital punishment. It's just that not everybody has the same opinion, therefore human rights are impossible to achieve.

That is the first time that me and her have agree!

No no, thats not my point. My point is when she agrees with you, she is "suddenly" smart all of a sudden.

Yeah. Even if it is not for revenge, it makes sure that they will never commit that crime again.

Also, if they are allowed to live in prison for the rest of their lives, then they are being REWARDED for their crimes by having free accommodation, free food, free electricity, free gas etc.... all at the taxpayers expense. and they dont even have to work for the rest of their lives.

wot does the death penntly actualy achive??
It may afford victims(or their family) some peace of mind knowing that the person who commited the crime can never do it again but the will still have to deal with wot that person did to them
By killing them you are going down to the same level as them and becoming a Murderer your self

Not really, because murder is against the law, and if the death penalty were legal, that would not be against the law.

Xena I don't represent anybody BUT myself. My comments are mine! If it is share by other Americans.....well, there ins't much to it!

Yes, I've notice that there ppl from different parts of the world. They have their opinions, and I have mine. They don't believe in Capital Punishment? That's fine! I believe in Capital punishment. Can you give me "reasonable" arguments why is wrong?

I respect opininons it doesn't mean that I will accept them. The same applies to those that don't accept mine.

(I think we already made several threads about the death penalty)
-KEEP THIS ON TOPIC PPL-
WD: The most reasonable argument i have to bring in against the death penalty is that it is irreversable and innocent ppl might die, while as when you inprison them for life they might still enjoy a long time as a free man once their innocence is proven.

I'll try to keep it on topic.

Innocent ppl might die? Yes, is possible, but then again Justice is blind right? For me the death penalty should be apply to individuals that are "repetitive offendors" Meaning they have kill more than once without reasonable actions, and it does not involve "self defense".

don't you want to rule out the possibility of killing innocent ppl?

Of course I do, but that is the job of the Judges who give the sentence.

well you dont think they can fail?

Actually, murderers or people who commited other violent crimes are treated differently than normal inmates. In many cases, they have to live in cells with no windows, completely isolated from everyone else. To me, that's almost worse than death, having to be completely isolated from the rest of the world except for maybe the occasional guard.
Also, in a lot of states, they do have to work--a lot of the time it's farming, but I've heard of them doing other things like computer programming or making sports equipment.

I agree that in practice it could be abused and innocent people could die, so it should only be for people who have repeatedly broken the law and have loads of evidence against them.
But still, if it was legal to give the death sentance, it would only be a matter of time before some innocent person got caught up in the system and ends up dead because of it.

Works in theory, but is dangerous in practice

What do you mean "they" can fail? The judges? The system? I mean the only people that can fail IMO is the Attorneys of the accuse.

the judges.

The Attorneys too. They represent the accuse person. If the attorneys fail in proving their client is not guilty, it comes down on them.

yes, but still the attorney doesn't make up the system

So you saying the system is the cause?

The death penalty has exsisted for thousands of years....I personally believe it's done more help than harm. Society as a whole has progressed and people get fair chances.

I do believe in human rights, but i believe that once you interfere with another human's rights (for example by killing them) then you deserve an equally great punishment. Of course i mean in the cases of murder or serial killing and not exactly accidental automobile casualties.

But just like all controversial arguements....it's very situational

I dont care who you blame for the executions of innocent ppl WD

I just know that if a system has faults like that then it is wrong and shouldn't be used

Fire, what system do you think is the best for solution for the problem of murderers?

im doing an investigation on this and i just thought it would be interesting to see your views on this

Merging...

TheOmega> Killing an "innocent" person is Murder and is WRONG. When the Executioner is pulling the switch it is his job. The job that the people elected for him to do. He has to carry out the sentence given by the Judge.

When you say castration for chid molestors, it isn't a fit punishment. Cutting the genitals of a child molestors will not deprive the indidual from obtaining some other way of pleasure. So the best solution is counseling. If the individual does it again....execute the person!

just look them up for life that's the best way imo

TheOmega> I understand you anger about child molestor, It burns my skin to see that those indivuals get life sentences for a crime so horrific. Now as far as the job of the executioner it is his duty to perform the task the judge has order. Remenber that the judge (and also the prosecutor) represent the people of the state. Therefore, when the sentence has been given the judge "represents" the will of the people.

Ok, BUT if you kill a person on a death row, you are commiting a murder, not justice!

Are you saying that it is ok, to go a murder a helpeless human being, because a prisoner on a death row, to be killed is a helpless, person, waiting to die! What can be more cruel that that.

There was a man ( i cant remember his name now) that was killed last year on a death row who waited 17 years to be executed, and they never told him when that they is going to arrive. How can you call that justice, that is barbaric and shamful.

If you say that eye for an eye is right way to go about it, then a family member or a friend of a person on a death row has as much right to kill the person who executed him or sent him on a death row as they did to kill him.

Because murder is against the law, but if it were legal for people to be given the death sentance, then that would NOT be against the law.

Is there such thing as an INNOCENT person??
People might be not guilty of certain crimes, but I doubt that there are many people in the world that are totally innocent of everything.

So that would make it ok then?

Then in your own words what is "justice"



All I'm saying that a if murderer that has been trial and found guilty of Maliciously killing a person with enough evidence. Then it should be sentence to life in prison. If he gets paroled, and kills again. Then that person should be executed. Kills once, life in prison. Kills twice or a third time....execute the person.

When you say "helpless being" you also have to remenber the victims of crime. Yes, those people that are death, and cannot longer have justice.



The eye for an eye used to be a law for ancient times. Nowadays we have systems of law that determine whether a criminal should be or should not executed. I don't consider today's laws an eye for eye. If we do not aprove of the system then there are ways to change it. Until then we are a part of it.

Well...then im sure you also know that 50% of people on death row in America are black! Hmm...yeah, serving justice...

Eye for an eye was there in ancient times. I believe we have advanced beyond that dont you?

Justice is there to bring justice on those who have broken the law, not BRING REVENGE upon them.

You read a lot, do you not? Have you read the play by Euripides 'Electra' and 'Orestis'. This was written thousnds of yeas ago, when Greeks first recognised the wrongness of one life for another...
Read those two plays by Euripides.

That would be a race issue. Not only African Americans, but also Hispanic, Asian, and other minorities. Still a good point.



Yes and no. Humans will always be humans with the same dilemas as in the past, and most likely in the future.



Milla, from my perspective "Justice" means the laws of the state. Members of the state are subject to these laws. Foreigners belong in a set differently in laws. If I'm in London, and commit a crime I will be punish according to the law of the land. Same here in the US, if I broke the law I have be punish.



I love to read! I'm familiar with Euripides, but I admit that I'm not acquitent with his writings. I base my ideas from Socrates. He was executed for his beliefs (yes I know is very ironic) Also he was a firm beliver of the "State and the laws of the State" A good citizen in order to maintain the safety of the state. Must follow the rules of the state. When the state changes I too must change with the state. Because I'm just like any other citizen which belongs in the state, and the state is made by the people. The laws are also made by the people.

I think if someone has murdered someone, then they should also die, ( A life for a life)
Child abusers should be hanged in my opinion, i work with children, and hate to think of someone doing things to a child, it's unbearable to think about to be honest

Rapists etc should be put away for ruining a life.

(just a note, Euripides is older than Socrates..by almost 20 years, his works were being published when Socrates was only young)

My point with racial issue youve totally missed. You talk about brining justice, killing people on death row, when people on death row have been racialy discriminaded against.

You do NOT have flawless system which catches all the right killers and execute them, because if you believe that all the people on death row right now are all guilty or have deserved a death row you are higly mistaken.

Black man will get the harsher sentance for killing a white man than other way arround.

How can state decide who is to die and who isnt, who or what gives them that right? What gives the right to play god?
Do you not find it moraly wrong?

A highly permissive society such as our own must find ways to reinforce a canon of acceptable conduct. Some acts must be recognized as evil in themselves

Capital punishment is no answer to the major challenges we face as a society. Moreover, it has not proven to be a deterrent to violent crime, it exploits the poor. This is not surprising, as recent high profile cases amply demonstrate. A well paid, high powered defense team can make all the difference.

We do not need quick fixes like capital punishment, however. We need the patience to seek out answers to more profound questions, and the will to rewrite our cultural script.

We must not allow ourselves to be caught up in the spiral of violence. Violence begets violence. Capital punishment is really no answer.

It is WRONG!

Most violence stems from ignorance. I think we need more programs designed to help criminals instead of punish them. They need to be taught and they need to understand that what they do is wrong. Where I work in Salinas, there are many hispanic gangs and some of these kids have never seen the ocean which is only 25 minutes away! They are ignorant, poor, they live in a dangerous community and they don't grow up knowing what else is out there. If we only punish criminals and leave them alone to die, where is the evolution of thought involved in that? How will we ever foster a positive change? I learned of one program where violent offenders have to offer their victim their service of some sort, to make up for the crime. Sometimes the victims refuse to even give the criminal a chance, but that is also part of the learning experience. Other victims will work with the person who assulted them and many times it has led to them forgiving the criminal and actually created a positive relationship between the two.

What are your opinions on the hanging of Derek Bentley, one of the last people to suffer the death penalty in the UK?
He shouted "Let him have it, Chris" to his mate who was holding a gun at a police officer who was trying to talk him down. I belive that he meant Let him have the gun not shoot him, but the jury believed he enticed, and he was put on death row. There was a public outcry! Derek was 19 though was later revealed he had a mental age of 11. His friend Chris Craig who shot the cop was only 16 and was put in prison.

weird

Not like I'm doing it in english

IMO you shoot 13 people with a sniper rifle....you deserve to fry...not reform

I know is just a note, but what is point of saying Socrates was born after Euripidies? Older means wiser?

No, I happen to agree with you on that. The system does have holes. But once a criminal is found guilty of maliciously killing a person (or many) then whether he is Anglo, African American, Latino then the law has to be enforce.

Anyone can be highly mistaken. Including you who don't approve of execution. Prisoners in death row have been trial and found guilty by the Judges, the jury, and the prosecutor. My opinion on whether he "might" be innocent will not influence the decision of the court. The attorneys of the accuser can appeal. Maybe then the prisoner "might" be found innocent.

Racism again? Yes there is! Should it be stop? Of course! But crime cases have no color lines. Let's just not generalize which color of the person skin gets the most executions.

The laws of the state decide whether a prisoner should be executed. Do I find it moraly wrong? Well, we are taking about "Justice", and justice requires things:logic, reason, proof,and evidence. I'm not sure about ethics
I agree let us not get into a spiral of violence again'st violence. But who started the violance in the first place? Not the state, not me, not you, but the actions of a murderer committing a crime started it all in the first place.

I was talking about his works, and when they were written, please go back and look at what i brought up.
I was pointing out what ideas existed before Socrates was even self aware.


On the rest of your argument, i personaly dont understand it. You left out many of the points i reaised, you did it in the reply before that as well, like the way the poor are exploited more...

All your arguments are ''they should be killed'' and there is no ''because this this and this''

Comment on this...

A highly permissive society such as our own must find ways to reinforce a canon of acceptable conduct. Some acts must be recognized as evil in themselves

Capital punishment is no answer to the major challenges we face as a society. Moreover, it has not proven to be a deterrent to violent crime, it exploits the poor. This is not surprising, as recent high profile cases amply demonstrate. A well paid, high powered defense team can make all the difference.

We do not need quick fixes like capital punishment, however. We need the patience to seek out answers to more profound questions, and the will to rewrite our cultural script.

We must not allow ourselves to be caught up in the spiral of violence. Violence begets violence. Capital punishment is really no answer.

Okay I will go back and recheck it. What I'm saying is that people like judges, jurors, prosecutors study the case, and once they have found enough evidence the judge determines whether the criminal should be executed or not.

Well, killing off someone, like the people described in the first post in this threa, who are obviously evil and don't care for any kind of morality, is the only way to ensure they will never hurt another human being again.

People like this, the most extreme case, serve no purpose to humanity, other then a negative purpose, just hurting, raping and destroying other human beings. We don't need people like that in the world.

I say vigilante justice can be very necessary. Kill the mother ****ers.

WIndDancer> But what does the death-penalty accomplish in your opinion? Does it unmake the crime? Does it make life easier for the victims? What exactly does it do in your opinion?
You say child-molestation should be punished by murder. A life has been ruined, so you want to take a life. Okay. How do you want to punish robbery?
And it doesn't matter what kid of legal-beagle you toss at me. The judge represents the state? Well, if not everyone agrees with the death-penalty he doesn't. And a state is a human social and economic invention. Murder is STILL murder. No matter WHAT you call it.

"Eye for an eye"? Either you deem something wrong or not. If you think stealing is wrong, would you then go and steal from someone who stole from you. That is just so hypocritical!
What do you mean "humans will always be humans"? Do you think we haven't changed over the millions of years our species has existed. Do not mistake current problems and issues with some peculiar inbuilt flaw of humanity. Humans are actually sociable creatures And 99,9999999999 % of us have NO say in what happens in the world - democracy or not.

eleveninches> But if murder is AGAINST the law, then the state, which upholds the law, should not break its OWN laws by killing people, no? Innocent is innocent of the crime convicted of. Din't give me that "oh, those innocent people on death-row probably had it coming anyways." You are aware, that many innocent people on deathrow in the US have been killed?

/\ Yeah, and their PRESIDENT has sentanced more people to death row than anybody else in US history

Societies have been using the death penalty for thousands of years and society as a whole has progressed. Who are all of you to say that the death penalty is wrong? The laws in the United States are more than fair and reasonable. It's not like you get the death penalty for j-walking...you get it for multiple murders. If you are responsible for the intrusion of several peoples human rights...then inturn your human rights should be intruded also.

I don't go around killing people because of things just like the death penalty. So IMO it servers its purpose.

And who are you to say capital punishment is right? And we can say whatever we damn please!



- About 30 to 60 prisoners are currently killed annually, most by lethal injection. About two out of three executions (65.6%) are conducted in five states: Texas, Virginia, Missouri, Florida and Oklahoma. Texas leads the other states in number of killings (256 killings; 34% of the national total). There were about 3,690 prisoners sentenced to death in 37 state death rows, and 31 being held by the U.S. government and military. 4 About 1.5% are women. Recent laws have expanded the number of crimes for which capital punishment can be applied. Other legislation has reduced some of the appeal mechanisms available to those on death row.

-About 90% of those executed could not afford a lawyer when they went to trial. They had to rely upon a court-appointed lawyer.

Doesnt that up there tell you anything?!?!?!?!?! What JUSTICE are you serving?!?!?!?!!?

typical milla...flying off the handle.

Please read the beginning of my arguement...society is advancing. Keeping killers behind bars serves no purpose. Reform only works on those who are willing to be reformed. Sickos like the Maryland Sniper who shot down 13 innocent people don't deserve to walk this earth.

But to stick to the point of this topic.....yes, SOME individuals do deserve to die for their crimes. But most certainly not ALL that are in prison.

http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/unclassified/eek3.gif


And you read the BALD letters in MY argument....

a court appointed attourney is still a legally acceptable alternative. They pass the bar just as any other lawyer does. An innocent person should have little difficulty proving their innocence. There are, of course, acceptions.

Of course they do of course they will fight for their client who will pay them nothing just as hard and with just as much effort as the lawyer who's client is going to pay vast amounts of money!

I pitty you, if you honestly believe that

1st you don't have to quote me...i know you're talking to me

2nd Generally speaking, (always exceptions), court appointed attorneys do their job because they have a passion for defending those who can't afford to pay for a Johnny Cockran or Mark Gerragos. Besides in the United States, a court appointed attorney is paid by the local government...so it's not like he's defending for free.

I pity you if you think money is the only reason someone would put up a proper defense for their client.

I dont agree with the death penalty. But maybe you're right about your second paragraph. Very interestin BackFire.

Erm...what?!

''I pity you if you think money is the only reason someone would put up a proper defense for their client.''

that statement is so laughable!!!!

Actually...the whole of this paragraph is!!!

Please re-read what you wrote....sleepy and dont embarress yourself.

if those judges, prosecutors, and jurors are good christians then they should be able to forgive a murderer. Life in prison for them sounds good to me.

Only laughable in your eyes Lil B.

which doesn't say much...

Local governments pay for a court appointed attorney to represent a client. So contrary to your statement....they aren't getting paid "nothing."

So basically what you are saying is....as an attorney who accepts a client's case, you are going to put up less effort for someone who isn't going to pay you as much?

THAT my dear....is the most laughable thing i've ever heard you say!!

Why accept the case if you weren't going to try your best to defend your client?!?!?!

I'd say stop before you embarass youself....but it's too late.

Are you imitating me?

You dont have a CLUE what you are talking about!

What exactly is your argument? You have nowhere managed to disprove ANYTHING ive said...

And....you laughing at what exactly? Do you even know? Or are you only doing it because i did it? Did you just copy my reply and put you words in it!!

Me? Embarrass myself? haha! Go read arguments i put foward, then go read our own...

anyone want mittens to put over their claws?

I dont like mittens....hmmm........maybe! give it here.

The Governments of the world should watch Escape from New York.

Please dont be so ignorant, its really not nice.

Do you think that higly skilled, professional lawers are going to be in que waiting to be hierd by government to defend someone?


''So basically what you are saying is....as an attorney who accepts a client's case, you are going to put up less effort for someone who isn't going to pay you as much? ''

I cant believe someone can be that ignorant so i am going to assume that you are just pretending to be so....

Law is not a flea market, mate. They dont bargen how much money they are going to pay for their services!!
My goodness!
The more money you can give, the better lawyer you can afford...you dont go to a lawyer and say...''look mate this is how much money i have'' It doesnt work like that!
You go to a lawyer, and he says THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL PAY ME..you either like it or you dont....if you dont have money, you move down the rank, and guess what the less skilled ones, ask for far less money, than the very skilled experianced ones!!

Dont you dare laugh at my comment again, if you dont have anything valid to say...

You are embbarrasing yourself mate...no one else.

Just because they aren't the absolute best lawyer available...doesn't mean they aren't capable.

At no point did i say that they bargain about amounts of service...where do you come up with this? flea market? christ...

Look at your last post...you attempt to rip me to shreds failed miserably...mate!

You keep putting words in my mouth and act like you are so smart about the subject. nothing you've said to me is news...it's a known fact!


No duh! why don't you try and tell me something....EVERYONE doesn't know?

Keep flying off the handle Mil...it's going to get you someone....one day.

Thats what you said!!

OMG! Anyway..moving on AWAY from whatever it is that you are talking about...

You have no argument to disprove my argument (about the CP)

If the population of a country vote to have the death penalty, then it is their fault if they get convicted themselves

In a Capitalist Society, the death penalty should be supported by all, simply because it is a cheaper option than imprisonment and counselling... and it lowers the incidence of reoffending...

How can people's lives be reduced to money? The justice system isn't perfect, and innocent people have been accused of being guilty before. How can you justify that?

Hey, I'm not a capitalist... my personal belief is that rapists and child molesters should take the place of dogs and rats etc in laboratories.. that way they can do something useful to make up for what they've done, and the test results will be far more relevant...

but only, of course, if it is proved that they are guiltyt... and despite what some do-gooders may say, often there is absolutely no doubt that they are...

ah...but your first suggestion is rather interesting. instead of killing them outright, they could become useful in that sense...i dont agree with it, but it does raise a few questions.

Simple, what else do you think influences a persons lifestyle. Homeless people have a crap life cos they have no money. Rich people have a lot of money and most of them have a good life.

If you have not money, then you can't afford food, so you can't afford to live.

No, but you're saying a capitalist economy system would benefit from the death penalty. While doubtlessly that is correct, that is also probably one of the least ethical things you can do.

But then again, why should we bother with mere morals?

Ethics... its a strange word, just like quality... when we say quality, we usually mean good quality, but there is also bad quality... in other words, everything is "quality..." Likewise, when we say something is not ethical, we mean that it does not sit well with what is the individual's or the societies favoured ethic... The Capitalist ethic seeks the greatest monetary gain for a certain section of the population by the exploitation of all available resources, including people... to a communist capitalism is very "unethical..." remember folks, Capitalism and Good are two totally seperate things... if it could be proved that the death penalty would increase the value of shares in the top 500 companies, you could guarantee we would have it reintroduced....