X-man and Franklin Richards VS Superman Prime and The Spectre!

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C1nd3r
Oooooooh! Who wins?

Beyonder
Prime and Spectre.

supremthor
Prime and Spectre can take him 1 on 1 and win

Imperial_Samura
Got to go with Superman and Spectre... although it would be very, very close.

supremthor
How prime alone would murder him.

clickclick
Theres two people .... X-man and Frank Richards. I honestly dont know that much about Prime but from what I read I dont think hes any more powerful than Richards. Spectres got some power though.

Then again Hal Jordan beat Spectre so.......

HarmonicFlo88
X-Man and Franklin Richards would dominate with use of their full powers. Their powers have abnormal advantages that are situational advantages...with a mix who knows wut could happen...really.

That'd be some matter changing reality twisting brain melting confusion causing nipple hardening fight.

supremthor
Superman prime

The Flash
Prime and Spectre.

picoico
Spectre ALONE. Put supes on the opposite team if you like.

clickclick
If spectre is so powerful then how did he get killed by hal Jordan?

Im not that knowledgeable about DC so im really interested in hearing from somebody who could explain this.

Bardock42
when did Spectre get kiled by Hal Jordan? Hal Jordan was Spectre for Some time wasn't he? I think it is not possible to kill spectre, isn't he like right under god.

clickclick
Well I thought he killed the guy who was spectre and then he took his place. But really didnt Hal Jordan even as parallax struggle just to create the sun?

Frank could create a sun without difficulty.

mr.smiley
yes.xman and richards would be outted in strength but other than that they win.their powers are too different and hard to fight against

muffin man
franklin richards and x-man the 2 most powerful mutants

Wynndar
muffin man, whenever u post, I always laugh when i see the little dancing michelangelo

supremthor
it doesnt really matter specter would eat x-men for ther Telepathy have no effect on him. the spectre can do what ever he want but he has to get an ok from his og

clickclick
Franklin Richards is far above simple telepathy. He can do whatever he wants and he doesnt need the ok from anybody if you know what I mean.

But if its true that spectre got killed by parallax then I dont see why Franklin couldnt do the same.

picoico
On a limited scale. Franklin is below a cube...and so is X-Man. Spectre is a full-fledged cosmic being. Franklin and X-Man can alter reality (locally) as much as they like, Spectre won't be affected because he really isn't confined to the rules of ANY reality.

clickclick
Again did Spectre NOT get killed by Parallax?

What is it that Parallax did that Franklin can not?

As to Franklin, full potential he is at the very least equal to the celestials. He has incredible power already and he is just a little kid, far from the potential he one day will have. There is nothing limited about the scale of power at which Franklin operates. He could make himself a cosmic being if he felt like it (which I think he should). He can manipulate matter on a cosmic scale and im talking about celestial level.

X-man at full potential and control would be on par with dark phoenix which would be pretty damn powerful. However, that doesnt compare to Franklin's potential.

Spectre is NOT the real LT equivalent. LT's power outranks Frank but if a pissed off hal Jordan (paralax) can take out Spectre then Franklin will be able to aswell.

Franklin is not below a cosmic cube. Cosmic cubes are below celestials and Franklin is equal to or exceeding them.

Of course im talking about full potential because why would we match up a little kid against these guys?

Bardock42
Stop saying Spectre got killed by Parralax, he didn't.
If you refer to Hal Jordqan becoming Spectre, that happened because Spectre chose him as the next Human to carry Spectre. And it doesn't matter since arralax is crazily Powerful, he destroyed the whole Universe and wanted to create it again (the whole thing).
Maybe you don't know it but Spectre is the MAN, he can kick everyones ass, except for LT maybe. I don't know about Superman Prime, did he ever show any power at all, wasn't that the Golden Guy with GL ring at the end of One Million. If he is he seems to be Powerful but I don't know how strong he is (but doesn't matter, Spectre kills both in a second (probably less))

And Parralax didn't have a problem to create a Sun he had a problem with absorbing a crazy strong being the Sun Eater (Whoich Franklin or X-Man couldn't do shit against)

clickclick
Actually if you read my posts you could see I wanted clarification on that one because I wasnt sure. Like I said I dont know that much about DC besides some basic stuff.

Parralax can destroy a whole universe? Ok and at just a fraction of his future powers franklin created one and he didnt need anybody to help him. You think itd be any difficulty whatsoever for Franklin to destroy universes? Even Nate should be able to do that.

You have stated that Franklin wouldnt be able to do anything against Sun eater. Why do you believe this to be true? Why would an entity eating the sun even be much trouble for Frank? He could send the Sun eater into a different reality, destroy it (that reality) and then create a new sun. Or whatever else he felt like doing.

Tell me this, has Parralax ever beaten Spectre?

Ive read that Parralax had to use all his powers to create a second sun, is that true?

From what I understand Spectre can be harmed by beings of immense power. Franklin has immense power.

So if Franklin has limitless power, can alter reality and pretty much do anything how is it he doesnt have a chance?

Bardock42
Parrallax Has fought Spectre but Spectre could only win with the help of other Heros, And He didn't need all his powers to create a new sun but to absorb and destroy the Sun eater, not that that would make any sense if the Sun Eater wasn't some kinsd of Super mega Cosmic being since Parralax is unbelievably Powerful. But anyway is there any restriction to Franklin Richards or is he basically more powerful than anyone else. Like you make it sound as if he could destroy the Living Tribunal if he wanted. What can Franklin Richards actually do, if he can only create an universe I believe Spectre could (even though he never would) do that too.

picoico
Parallax Killed the Sun Eater...not the prior Spectre...have no idea what became of him. As I understand it, Spectre changes hosts from time to time...Hal simply became the Spectre after he died fighting the Sun Eater.

picoico
Parallax is much like the SS in that he stores and channels energies. He attained "God-like" powers after accumulating enough energies over a large period of time. When he fought the sun eater, he was depowered by that point.

I like how the DC writers had him destroy the universe...through some kind of cosmic event (time fissures or something like that)...i.e. he didn't 'zap' the universe away like the Beyonder did. He simply started a process that he knew would "restart" the universe in a way he liked. Cool and efficient, very Thanos like!

As for Franklin, he's maximum potential is supposed to be on par with the cosmic beings like, say, The Shaper or Beyonder.

Bardock42

leonheartmm
well superman doesnt really matter in this fight, hes too weak. x man has powers that probably equal the celestials at full strength so he can easily beat superman, the only thing is spectar and franklin spectar is made of PSYCHO MATTER and he is immensely powerful as he recieves his powers directly from god. but we have seen in the past that he is not in any way on par with beings like lucifer and micheal{the ones which have the ability to create universes}, and the spectar got the beating of his life by parallex.
on the othhand, if what franklin richards can do is even a hint to his true potential than i believe that franklin's true potential is FAR greater then any celestial that ever lived, it might even be on par with the tribunal or the true beyonders. because create reality or universes at the whim of a single thought is beyond any power{other than THOTU} that i have ever seen in the marvel universe, its like the combined powers of micheal and lucifer or the demiurgic powers of elaine{dc}. looking at all this, i have to say that if franklin reaches reaching anyplace even slightly near his full potential, hed own the spectar's ass.

leonheartmm
another thing parallex was a lot more powerful than spectar, spectar tried{along with every other hero in marvel} to stop parallex from startin zero hour but parallex just swat them like flies. Also the sun eater's power went beyond just eating the sun and they were a threat to the universe, and the only reason that hal had a problem fighting them was because he was powered down.

dark flash
should'nt prime and spectre be able to beat them like whore's before they even had a thought i'm guessing prime could do that

supremthor
I hope you no that we are talking about superman prime.A histoy on prime if i may. >Superman of the 853rd Century was the ages-old descendant of the modern Superman. His Kryptonian DNA -- though diluted through centuries of inter-species breeding -- blessed him with incredible Kryptonian-derived powers; today's Superman's powers . . . taken to the Nth degree.

>These powers were positively amended by centuries of evolution as well as the Superman Dynasty's inter-breeding with 5th Dimension (magic) royalty and the Solaris-facilitated inheritance of the "powers of the Heisenberg Principle" (awesome quantum powers).

>Upon returning from thousands of years' exile in deep space, our Superman -- now known as Superman Prime -- returned with powers and abilities gleaned "from beyond space and time" and established a covenant with his children: in return for their perpetual allegiance to Superman's moral code and the "never ending battle," Superman Prime would empower them with "powers far beyond those possessed by any metahuman" in history. To administer these powers to his descendants, Superman transformed Earth's star into the Super Sun (which was so hot not even our Superman could not approach it!) and bequeated his gifts via amped-up cosmic radiation. Pleased with the formation of this covenant, Superman retreated into solar hibernation -- entrusting the Universe to his dynasty's care.

>What powers did Superman 853 and (presumably) his cousins possess? The short answer? All of them.

>For now, let's just say that he was powerful enough to halt billions of rocketing stars and planets -- merely by looking at them!



And yet here's more:



>Apparently, he had become a matter/energy/reality manipulator of the highest order.

>Then he went into hibernation in the core of the sun for 15,000 years. He transformed the sun into the "Supersun" and he basically BECAME the sun, much like the Skyfather of Krypton, Rao. (Superman basically became Rao the Skyfather, as I see it.)

>From his solar fortress of solitude, he administered powers "from the edge of time and space" to his descendants so long as they pledged to serve Earth. These powers put them beyond any metahuman ever in the DCU. Besides Superman Prime granting his descendants the full package of Superman's super-powers (and at Pre Crisis level, to boot: extinguishing a red giant star with the superbreath, igniting stars with heat vision, "more powerful than the gravity from a black hole", superintelligence, FTL speed, etc.), his descendants also enjoyed a slew of additional powers, including but not limited to: "force vision", super-telekinesis, super-ESP, as well as undisclosed 5th dimensional magic powers.

>All of these vast abilities were administered to his descendants by the Superman Prime from his solar fortress.

>Captain Kal estimated that as he was the power source for his descendants, the Superman Prime probably enjoyed a power level 10x that of his descendants.

>In the year 853,000, the Superman Prime left his solar fortress, gained the last Green Lantern ring, and apparently used his matter/energy/reality warping abilities to reconfigure the "it only works for Kyle Ryner" mechanism of the ring.

>Superman Prime then resurrected Lois Lane as a cosmic being like himself ; created a new planet ; and resurrected from the dead a population of 10 million Kryptonians who had been dead 853,000 years.

>I would guess his powers were not limited to superstrength/flight/heat vison etc., but rather he was transformed into a Dr.Solar/Dr. Manhattan/Molecule Man/-type who could "do anything" with his matter/energy/reality manipulation abilities.

>He could molecularly reconstruct matter, such as the sun, as well as organic matter, such as his descendants; and probably manipulate space/time as when he brought back the "souls" fo his long dead ancestors and wife.



Here's some info. on Superman of the 853rd Century:



>His DNA was no longer recognizably Kryptonian...so he was either not vulnerable to Kryptonite or that vulnerability was greatly reduced.

>And magic? While magic was a great foil for Pre Crisis Superman, the Superman descendant of the 853rd Century had extra magical powers thrown in because one of his ancestors was the Empress of the 5th dimension and thus more powerful than Mxyzptlk.

>While the extent of his magical prowess was undisclosed, we know he gained 8 entirely new senses (added to Superman's already incredible senses) by the addition of 5-D blood.

>He also demonstrated super-ESP.

>In addition to the full complement of "normal" Superman powers, and whatever 5-D magical powers he had, he also demonstrated: "force-vison", and "super-telekinesis".

>So, Kryptonite and magic no longer posed any challenge for the Superman of the 853rd Century. Did he have ANY weaknesses?

>Yes, one Achilles' heel: his power was entirely administered by the Super-sun, the Superman Prime of the 853rd Century. Separated from it his powers would dwindle rapidly.

>Superman of the 853rd Century was the second most powerful Superman ever, after the Superman Prime of course who was the administrator of power for the entire Superman dynasty.

So what can we conclude? Not sure, but given what SP's descendants could do, and that SP was the source of those powers, I wouldn't exactly chalk up a victory. SP sounds like a being that could easily defeat a celestial, and even at Galactus' peak, he has a hard time defeating even one of those suckers.

who?-kid
Super Man Prime all the way. He's sooo powerful it isn't funny anymore, but hey, it's probably one of the strongest heroes ever, and certainly waaaay smarter than X-Man AND Franklin Richards together.

Don't forget intelligence and experience.

manjaro
spectre alone would kick ass. Superman prime would kick ass even if spectre was on thier team.

Spectre wasnt killed by anybody

HarmonicFlo88
Spectre was supposed to be living tribunals equal...if thats so then him alone could take tha other three.

supremthor
yes prime alone can defeat X-man and Franklin Richards

Beyonder
I highly doubt that. Prime needed the GL ring to beat Solaris. And Solaris wanted to recover Kryptonite to use to kill Prime. With all the hype about Prime, I don't think he's beyond Franklin's reach. As a kid, he created a pocket universe. Prime's enemy was some living sun.

Spectre & Prime wins but by how much depends on how much power the Spectre is given.

clickclick
Hes not though by character description. If spectre was actually the tribunals equal then I would take that team.

supremthor
I still think prime can take out Franklin Richard without any real problem cuss every superman even One Million get there power from him.and another thing atom man can creat a subatomic pocket universe

manjaro
the only reason the spectre "isnt" seen to be tribunal's equal is becuase it was never part of his hyperbole. He is listed as the Wrath of god and that's it. LT on the other hand his description is well.......more descriptive. He's the guardian of the multiverse, he was commisioned by TOAA to render judgement, and blah blah blah. so at the end of the day he's just got more resposibilties than Spectre thats why it would seem that way.

but as we all know the chacrters in DC are ridiculously more powered up than marvel, so i wouldnt be too surprised if Spectre actually transcneds LT, but for the sake of reasoning i maintain that they are equals. in fact, LT was molded after Spectre, for those who need a history lesson.

Also, now that i think about it. Spectre could best Prime, providing that Prime doesnt have any artifacts like the ring, sword of truth

Beyonder
Actually, 1 Million does get energy from Prime, but 1 Million also has Imp blood in him. Prime NEVER received this because it was his descendent who married a 5th dimension Imp and that line after (including 1 Million) inherited Imp blood/powers. All his descendants do receive power from him; but not all need his powers as being part 5th dimensional Imp, they're powerful in their own rights.



Parallax gave Spectre trouble. The Infinity Gauntlet beat Eternity. And LT is above the IG. Though he had to struggle for the Gauntlet if Warlock resisted, LT would still get it in the end. And I don't think Parallax is greater than Eternity in power. Still Prime has yet to demonstrate he's more powerful than Spectre or Parallax. All this hype about him, and he needed a GL ring to fight Solaris, some living sun.

supremthor
didnt prime defeat Lucifer Morningstar?(who by my understanding is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful then spectre and parallax,Lucifer Morningstar who could basically withstand an explosion that could wipe out the whole multiverse)

leonheartmm
i am well aware of superman PRIME'S powers but i still say that even nate can take care of prime, for one reason, even cable has the power to extinguish stars, and nate is even more powerful than cable, and as u said "prime became the SUN ITSELF.
and as far as the thing with spectre beeing as powerful as tribunal goes,well that was when tribunal wasnt the supreme being guy in the marvel universe, he was quite weak then and we shouldnt forget that spectre's powers dont compare to beings like lucifer{and lucifer has only half the powers of franklin}.

and i dont think that prime could have beaten lucifer{he mustv been powered down or something}

clickclick
is because he isnt. Yeah I think its a pretty good reason too.

supremthor
were did you get the idea franklin is more power then Lucifer Morningstar???Lucifer Morningstar is makes spectre and parallax look like nothing

Molecule man
As powerful as Franklin is he is STILL only a mutant. I mean he was killed in the future, besides the High evolutionary found a way to cancel mutant powers.

The Flash
Didn't Superman one time defeated the whole GL Corps and said something like "A thought based weapon is useless against someone who is faster than thought"?

clickclick
He wasnt killed in another realities future (the one where hyperstorm is from) but he had a collar on, had to have been under utilizing his powers in another reality he becomes galactus so..... Other realities dont have baring on what will happen in the mainstream, they are just possibilities.

Frank can alter reality, I dont think people are getting that.

Molecule man
Proteus, X-man, Gaia, Nina, Hyperstorm and maybe Legion have the power to alter reality. The thing is that many beings can alter reality, personally i think that Franklin is a little bit overrated. As i said earlier people like High Evolutionary, Doom, Reed Richards can easily invent a device or something that will render all mutants powerless!

manjaro
yea that is true but that was in an elseworld title, The red son to be exact.

clickclick
None on the scale that Franklin will. Where did the High Evolutionary do this? What do you mean easily?

The thing about these comics is that you could write a guy to do anything but in terms of power, those 3 do not compare. Whats to say that he doesnt simply render them powerless? Or something of that nature.

If Franklin is of such a high level of power, whats to say his power can be render useless by one of them? Hes got power on the cosmic scale, im pretty sure he could do something to defend himself against such a thing.

clickclick
Well in order for superman to defeat them all, hed have to be thinking too. So unless hes faster than his thoughts than that wouldnt be correct.

Supes speed though is one of the reason why I could never buy it that Hulk beats him.

DarkCrawler
Hehe...heh...Franklin is uh...an ant compared to Superman Prime...so is X-Man.

clickclick
If you are talking about the kid franklin, yes maybe.

supremthor
PROME ALSO HAD A SWORD(WITCH IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN WAS AS POWERFUL IF NOT MORE THEN THE COSMIC CUBE)

clickclick
what would be the point of a GL ring then?>

supremthor
anotherthing Archangel Gabriel & his brother Lucifer Morningstar are just way to power for any mutant and there second in power after The Presence/The great best. Archangel Gabriel & his brother Lucifer Morningstar only have half of there powere cuss its divided in themselves.they both have power to creat universes with ease but if both wanted they could creat multiverse.as power as Franklin he cant creat multiverses that would be like saying his more powerful then Thanos with the heart.

clickclick
Whats the difference between a multiverse and multiverses?

Multiple, mutiple universes? Is that what its suppose to mean?

supremthor
my bad

supremthor
The Big Bang. The universe is created, formed of vapor and forged with fire. Great energies are born and just as quickly dies as that which was formless struggles to find a form, and that which is without reason seeks purpose. Out of this is born that which is eternal, that which is all and beyond all... The Source. This point in time is often referred to as the "First World".
Using his special time-bending device Krona gazes unto the beginning of the universe and ends up unleashing the Anti-Matter Universe.
At the moment of creation the entity known as The Voice, as well as the two eternal forces known as Order and Chaos also come into existence. Some evidence even indicate that the Source and the Voice are but two aspects of the same. Shortly after the creation of the universe, when the Voice first opens its mouth it creates the Word. Before it is ever spoken aloud, the word was traced by the hand of the Endless known as Destiny on the first pages of his book.
The time-travelling Spectre finally succeeds in defeating Shathan. Showcase #61 (March 1966), "Beyond the Sinister Barrier"
The next three of the Endless to come into existence are Death, Dream, and Destruction. It is known that Destruction, the youngest of the three, come into being as the first sentient beings emerges in the universe.
Entities known as the Aurakles also come into being at this time.
At some undisclosed point early in the creation of the universe, however after the first four of the Endless, the Archangels known as Lucifer, Uriel, Raphael, Michael, Saraquael, Gabriel, and Ragual come into existence. Early on one-third of the angels of Heaven, led by Lucifer, rebel against their master and are banished to the metaphysical realm that will one day become known as Hell.

supremthor
wrong place my bad

Beyonder
To answer this, NO. Prime never did such a thing. There was rumors about him beating Michael, not Lucifer, when Prime tore down the gates of heaven. But he NEVER did such a thing. If he can do that, he wouldn't need a GL ring to Solaris. It's just a rumor, nothing more.

If anyone thinks otherwise, please provide proof that he did such a thing as beating Michael, Lucifer, or tearing downs the gates of heaven.



Another thing, Michael is Lucifers brother, not Gabriel. And without Michael's help, Lucifer wouldn't have been able to create the multiverse - they need each other to do that.

supremthor
I meant Michael

Molecule man
It was in some time after Magneto had taken control of Genosha that the High Evo. did something that rendered all mutants powerless. And as powerful as Franklin is he is still a mutant!

clickclick
Yes but one who can alter reality. In other words, im pretty sure he could protect himself against something like that.

Technically he should be able to turn himself into a vastly powerful cosmic being considering he can manipulate matter on a cosmic scale.

Molecule man
Maybe...?

Anyway Nate and Franklin will lose against Prime and Spectre

clickclick
we will see what they do with the character, its hard to say at this point. Given his potential power I think he can beat Spectre and Prime .

leonheartmm
answering SUPREMTHOR: I SAY THAT FRANKLIN "IS" MORE POWERFUL THAN LUCIFER BECAUSE, WE KNOW THAT LUCIFER CAN CREATE UNIVERSES, BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT HE NEEDS HIS BROTHER MICHEAL TO DO THAT, WHICH ALSO MEANS THAT ALONE "HE CAN NOT " CREATE A UNIVERSE. BUT FRANKLIN AS WE KNOW "COULD" CREATE UNIVERSES WITHOUT "ANYONE'S" HELP EVEN WHEN HE WAS A CHILD! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THAT LEADS ME TO SAY THAT LUCIFER MORNINGSTAR IS ONLY HALF AS POWERFUL AS FRANKLIN RICHARDS

{OH AND U DO REALIZE THAT WHAT FRANKLIN DEMONSTRATED AS A CHILD WASNT EVEN A FRACTION OF HIS POTENTIAL PSIONIC STRENGTH}

leonheartmm
and as far as the discussion about FRANKLIN beeing JUST A MUTANT and thus beeing very weak against any mutant snatching device goes. thas just like sayin that : because magneto has his damn helmet on, he can NOT be affected by any kind of telepathic attack. {which is very stupid since there are mutants like nate who can easily penetrate that helmet with their telepathy} similarly franklin's reality manipulation can easily grant him protection from these kinda things{IF HE WANTS}

MERCILOUS
Reality manipulation? Bah! who cares. None of that matters. There is nothing Spectre can't do. Franklin and Nate are as useless against the Spectre as Supes is against them.

As for Franklin being more powerful than Lucifer, poppycock! Frankling may be able to "create" a universe, but Lucifer can rule over one as it's god.

Beyonder
Spectre can do anything...but stop Anti-Monitor from putting him into a comma. ...anything but beat Michael. ...anything but stopping Parallax. And where was Spectre when Imperiex showed his Celestial/Galactus copy clowny ass in DC?

Spectre isn't always a universal power.

clickclick
You dont sound biased at all. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Whocares about reality manipulation are you kidding? Ability to manipulate matter on a cosmic scale, vast psionic power, reality manipulation, telepathic, telekinetic powers and so on. He could increase nates powers, certainly could affect primes powers by draining his energy. Could block out the sun etc.

Like ive been saying if parralax can give spectre all he can handle, so can frank.

Somebody has already responded about Spectre. There are obviously things he cant do, deal bro.

ayjay
can someone tell me exactly how powerfull superman prime is...i been hearing alot of stuff about how he's so0o0o powerful etc etc....so exact;y HOW much more powerful is he than bak in the ol' dayz

MERCILOUS
You can't drown a fish. Spectre can alter you soul. There's nothing that Nate of Franklin could do against him. Comparing them to Parralax is a foolsih mistake.

clickclick
So did Spectre do that to Parralax? Of course there are things that Frank forsure and possibly nate two can do against him. Spectre is not completely invunerable, invincible, and all powerful.

Ive asked this before a number of times in this thread. What could parralax do that Franklin couldnt?

So franklin's ability to alter reality is "nothing" but Spectre's ability to alter your soul is "everything".... Wow

MERCILOUS
End all time.

clickclick
You mean destroy a universe? The same guy who could create one with just a fraction of his powers and all by himself?

roll eyes (sarcastic)

manjaro
dude it is a fool's errand to compare nate or franklin to the spectre force. spectre being the embodiment of god's wrath must show restraint cuz everything he does is the will of god. yeah he had a hard time with parrallax but one could argue that god didnt require him to participate in those battles so it wasnt his will for him to win.................im just saying.......... But it is also a fool's errand to say "gee, he had a hard time with parrallax so that means Franklin must be stronger". you must be freaking crazy! Spectre hands out ass whoopings in the name of god dude! he doesnt need to create pocket dimensions.

clickclick
If he "must" show restraint than he isnt as powerful as you would like to believe. If he couldnt override that to beat parralax, then im assuming he cant period.

I know what spectre is but he can still be hurt by beings of sufficient power, he can still be stopped, beaten and such.

He had a hard time with parralax? He was given all he could handle.

Anyway, the next person to make a convincing case for Spectre will be the first.

clickclick
Ok how about this. Franklin seperates the human host from the spectre force and kills the human.

or he puts spectre into another universe

Or he displays whatever power parralax had and then some and gives spectre all he can handle.

Hmmm.. what else?

And frank has precognitive abilities..........

supremthor
wrong LUCIFER can creat a UNIVERSE with no problem but he needs his brother to creat a multiverse somthing I think FRANKLIN can do

supremthor
The Spectre-force is released from limbo. It refuses again to join a human host, but is forced by Michael, Archangel of Heaven. Michael uses his other form, Kali of Hindu belief system, to join Wrath of God to human host. In India, a man named Caraka sees his wife & child killed by Beltane. Wishing vengeance, he is made into new host of Spectre by Michael/Kali.

supremthor
A histoy on prime if i may. >Superman of the 853rd Century was the ages-old descendant of the modern Superman. His Kryptonian DNA -- though diluted through centuries of inter-species breeding -- blessed him with incredible Kryptonian-derived powers; today's Superman's powers . . . taken to the Nth degree.
>These powers were positively amended by centuries of evolution as well as the Superman Dynasty's inter-breeding with 5th Dimension (magic) royalty and the Solaris-facilitated inheritance of the "powers of the Heisenberg Principle" (awesome quantum powers).
>Upon returning from thousands of years' exile in deep space, our Superman -- now known as Superman Prime -- returned with powers and abilities gleaned "from beyond space and time" and established a covenant with his children: in return for their perpetual allegiance to Superman's moral code and the "never ending battle," Superman Prime would empower them with "powers far beyond those possessed by any metahuman" in history. To administer these powers to his descendants, Superman transformed Earth's star into the Super Sun (which was so hot not even our Superman could not approach it!) and bequeated his gifts via amped-up cosmic radiation. Pleased with the formation of this covenant, Superman retreated into solar hibernation -- entrusting the Universe to his dynasty's care.
>What powers did Superman 853 and (presumably) his cousins possess? The short answer? All of them.
>For now, let's just say that he was powerful enough to halt billions of rocketing stars and planets -- merely by looking at them!
And yet here's more:
>Apparently, he had become a matter/energy/reality manipulator of the highest order.
>Then he went into hibernation in the core of the sun for 15,000 years. He transformed the sun into the "Supersun" and he basically BECAME the sun, much like the Skyfather of Krypton, Rao. (Superman basically became Rao the Skyfather, as I see it.)
>From his solar fortress of solitude, he administered powers "from the edge of time and space" to his descendants so long as they pledged to serve Earth. These powers put them beyond any metahuman ever in the DCU. Besides Superman Prime granting his descendants the full package of Superman's super-powers (and at Pre Crisis level, to boot: extinguishing a red giant star with the superbreath, igniting stars with heat vision, "more powerful than the gravity from a black hole", superintelligence, FTL speed, etc.), his descendants also enjoyed a slew of additional powers, including but not limited to: "force vision", super-telekinesis, super-ESP, as well as undisclosed 5th dimensional magic powers.
>All of these vast abilities were administered to his descendants by the Superman Prime from his solar fortress.
>Captain Kal estimated that as he was the power source for his descendants, the Superman Prime probably enjoyed a power level 10x that of his descendants.
>In the year 853,000, the Superman Prime left his solar fortress, gained the last Green Lantern ring, and apparently used his matter/energy/reality warping abilities to reconfigure the "it only works for Kyle Ryner" mechanism of the ring.
>Superman Prime then resurrected Lois Lane as a cosmic being like himself ; created a new planet ; and resurrected from the dead a population of 10 million Kryptonians who had been dead 853,000 years.
>I would guess his powers were not limited to superstrength/flight/heat vison etc., but rather he was transformed into a Dr.Solar/Dr. Manhattan/Molecule Man/-type who could "do anything" with his matter/energy/reality manipulation abilities.
>He could molecularly reconstruct matter, such as the sun, as well as organic matter, such as his descendants; and probably manipulate space/time as when he brought back the "souls" fo his long dead ancestors and wife.
Here's some info. on Superman of the 853rd Century:
>His DNA was no longer recognizably Kryptonian...so he was either not vulnerable to Kryptonite or that vulnerability was greatly reduced.
>And magic? While magic was a great foil for Pre Crisis Superman, the Superman descendant of the 853rd Century had extra magical powers thrown in because one of his ancestors was the Empress of the 5th dimension and thus more powerful than Mxyzptlk.
>While the extent of his magical prowess was undisclosed, we know he gained 8 entirely new senses (added to Superman's already incredible senses) by the addition of 5-D blood.
>He also demonstrated super-ESP.
>In addition to the full complement of "normal" Superman powers, and whatever 5-D magical powers he had, he also demonstrated: "force-vison", and "super-telekinesis".
>So, Kryptonite and magic no longer posed any challenge for the Superman of the 853rd Century. Did he have ANY weaknesses?
>Yes, one Achilles' heel: his power was entirely administered by the Super-sun, the Superman Prime of the 853rd Century. Separated from it his powers would dwindle rapidly.
>Superman of the 853rd Century was the second most powerful Superman ever, after the Superman Prime of course who was the administrator of power for the entire Superman dynasty.
So what can we conclude? Not sure, but given what SP's descendants could do, and that SP was the source of those powers, I wouldn't exactly chalk up a victory. SP sounds like a being that could easily defeat a celestial, and even at Galactus' peak, he has a hard time defeating even one of those suckers.

leonheartmm
and what does that prove, nothing.
loooking at evidence, we can see that franklin is far beyond the level of galactus, or celestials



and hey, WHO SAYS THAT FRANKLIN AT FULL POTENTIAL CANT "RULE" A UNIVERSE THAT HE CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE LIKE LUCIFER.

clickclick
Is Prime even really above a full powered Galactus though?

supremthor
I will say it again

supremthor
LUCIFER can creat a UNIVERSE with no problem but he needs his brother to creat a multivers

supremthor
prime IMO is above a full powered Galactus and Celestial

leonheartmm
um from what i remember, when the dc GOD created the universe, he first created micheal and lucifer, micheal made all of space and lucifer made all the suns and TIME, thas how it worked. LUCIFER OR MICHEAL ALONE CAN NOT CREATE A UNIVERSE.
AND WHATS THIS ABOUT MULTIVERSES, DC DOESNT GO TOO MUCH INTO THE MULTIVERSE THINGS{OTHER THAN ONCE IN THE BEGINNING OF SUPERMAN COMICS}
AND LUCIFER AND MICHEAL TOGETHER CAN CREATE A UNIVERSE "NOT A BLOODY MULTIVERSE"


anyway, if lucifer alone could create a universe, y do u think he resided in HELL for so long, he could just have created another universe for all the demons and misfits and his followers to live in outside the will of GOD. the reason beeing, that he couldnt create a universe without the help pf MICHEAL.

anyway, i do agree that he could beat franklin by using his expirience and his cunning, after all he has foiled the plans of god and the presence even when he didnt have his powers, just by using his brain,
and lucifer is most definately cooler than franklin, but in terms of sheer power, franklin takes it.

leonheartmm
oh and yea, one more thing, prime IS more powerful than GALACTUS
"clickclick", just not as powerful as a full potential nate grey.
ok maybe he is, but u cant really be sure.

supremthor
wrong again"POWERS AND WEAPONS


Lucifer is omnipotent, he can create his own universes on a whim, create life and create entire concepts like 'Time' from scratch.

His power is incalculable. He stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, the explosion that could wipe out a multiverse, and didn't even get a tan.

The only thing he cannot do is create his own multiverse alone, he needs his brother Michael to do that.

Only his brother Michael is his equal in power, and only God is superior to both of them.

But the power Lucifer likes to use most is his brain, his devious bastardness allow him to defeat gods even when he is mortal and powerless" =http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/Lucifer_Bio.php

supremthor
http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/Lucifer_Bio.php

leonheartmm
alright alright dammit, i got universe cunfused with multiverse, even so franklin could create a universe as a child, whats to stop him from creating an alternate multiverse when he reaches his true potential.
anyway, i wouldnt quite say that lucifer is omnipotent, hes died once before hasnt he.{actually, u cant really call anyone in a comic OMNIPOTENT, cause theres always someone bigger on ur ass in comics, least thas what ive seen}

uh HEY, WASNT THIS THREAD SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT SPECTAR AND PRIME VS NATE AND FRANKLIN?

leonheartmm
ANYWAY, both prime and spectar get their asses kicked by franklin.

clickclick
Yup.

If a multiverse is simply multiple universes, I dont see why franklin couldnt create that when he gets older.

supremthor
lol

supremthor
big grin big grin But prim and spectre win. MERRY CHRISTMAS I'N ITS TOMMROWW AND ALL BUT BUT I PICKED AT MY GIFTS AND ALL THAT CAME TO MIND WAS WOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

leonheartmm
um, its actually more than that, its an endless continuem of universes all connected end on end. think of it as an infinite number of pancakes piled on top of each other, and each pancake having an infinite diameter
and infinite height{thickness}, sorry, thas the best i can explain in 3d.
anyway, i think that with practice, franklin could do that. after all he did manage to create a universe out of nothing as a child without breaking a sweat.


{laugh all u want supremthor}

leonheartmm
and every pancake represents a universe{they are infinitely thick and have an infinitely long diameter beacuse the universe itself, scientifically has no end.

leonheartmm
actually, in my part of the world, christmas started about almost exactly three hours and 4.5 minutes ago{hehe, its past 3 o clock in the morning,

HAPPY CHRISTMAS ALL YOU COMIC LOVING FREAKS{me included}

supremthor
WHAT ITS ONLY 5:37pm IN NEWYORK. where do you live

leonheartmm
I DONT LIVE IN THE USA
{anyways, ive seen that people get all wierd when they tend to find where i live, so i just keep that info to myself}
what i can tell u is that here its +5 GMT, and oh my its abou 4 in the mornin i think ill go to bed}

supremthor
4yhb

clickclick
ok.

HarmonicFlo88
So leonheart u live almost on tha other side of tha world

goku-vs-superma
I am a huge fan of franklin richards and nate grey, but hulk was able to rip open onslaughts armor after he had absorbed the two mutants and proffessor x!! if the hulk can do it so can prime AND spectre

clickclick
thats the worst reasoning ive ever heard no offense.

supremthor
that is a very BAAD REASON.

leonheartmm
yea but u forget that after he ripped onslaught's armour, he just made onslaught A LOT MORE POWERFUL and almost indestructable, anyway, im very sure that onslaught was nowhere near controlling franklin's TRUE POTENTIAL, franklin could create universes without breaking a sweat as a kid, at his full potential, i wouldnt be surprised if he would rival the powers of the tribunal or the heart of the universe.



and yea harmonic, i do live on the other other side of the world.

ayjay
umm....is this franklin richards when he's grown up?....cos it would be funny watching all dese super dudes fighting a lil kid laughing

clickclick
adult which kinda makes it speculative (the full scale of his powers) but from what we know it is enough to take those two.

Molecule man
I think Franklin is more powerful as a child. And no way that he would be more powerful than the Tribunal or other cosmic beings.

Cosmic_Beings
X-man and Franklin Richards would win.

clickclick
You think hes more powerful than what as a child?



Even at a fraction of his future powers he has demonstrated more power than a number of cosmic beings so....... what are you talking about? I dont think he will be more powerful than LT but he will be far up that list.

manjaro
nooooooooooo you foolllllls! no one beats prime. let alone prime with spectre on his side

clickclick
im convinced now. roll eyes (sarcastic)

HarmonicFlo88
Franklin Richards has tha power to manipulate reality by creating pocket dimensions. Living Tribunal has the power to destroy a whole universe if it is a threat to the whole multiverse. no matter how many universes franklin creates or manipulates, LT will know and in a snap of his cosmic fingers..he can destroy both franklin and all his doings.

Franklin Richards power so amazing, but it wasn't harnessed properly. he had very little control - he's only a kid. if he was allowed to grow under ideal conditions and practiced his power then he would be equal to a few cosmic powers. you can't go crazy and say he'd be more powerfull than tha LT .

I think X-Man and Franklin take this if they both have control over their powers. also if franklin is allowed to grow. I think the reality manipulation and telekinetic/telepathic firepower would be too much for any being. and with full power..i mean neither nate grey or franklin were showed to control their whole power. it'd definitely be scary.

clickclick
Franklin's ability to manipulate reality is not limited to simply creating pocket universes. I do wonder if LT would exist inside that pocket Universe simultaneously to its creation. I wouldnt speculate that Frank could affect LT though unless it is shown to be possible in the comics.

Besides possibly some of the abstracts, Franklin will presumably become the most powerful being.

He wouldnt even really need X-man, hes kinda irrelevant here. He would need to be in control of his powers though, at this point Spectre and Prime would beat him.

leonheartmm
lets think about this shall we, u think that the tribunal is far beyond the power of franklin, but lets look at this, other then the holder of the heart of the universe and the true beyonders and entropy, nothing in the marvel universe is said to have enough power to destroy a whole universe other than the tribunal right, but the very reason the tribunal lives is to keep the multiverse safe, hence there is no evidence to suggest that the tribunal can destroy a whole multiverse.

but franklin richards could create universes from a single thought as a even a kid, n it wasnt the size of the universe that mattered, it was the very fact that franklin could create a universe in a reality far removed from the marvel multiverse{remember, it says alternate reality, not alternate universe} and franlklin presumably had to create all the abstract forces and concepts from scratch without any assistance or involvement of the abstracts in the marvel universe

leonheartmm
also, size does not matter in a universe, physically, a universe has no end, its the very existance of a universe{in a reality different from the normal one} that tells u how powerful franklin is, hey n from what i know, the power to CREATE is a lot more than the power to DESTROY. think about it, what does it take to create a scyscraper{ a helluva lot}, and what does it take to destroy one{i suppose jus half a ton of c 4 explosives will be enough}

leonheartmm
neway, if franklin could create a universe as a child, id say that he has the potential to create multiverses in him, n thas somethin that the tribunal could not hope to win against.

clickclick
Franklin created an alternate reality, a universe that was outside the regular MU but it was inside the Marvel Multiverse.



If it has a begining then it has an end

leonheartmm
no actually, thas not true when ur talkin about universes, physically, a universe has no end{this is understood as a fact in physics}, only in terms of energy can a universe have a limit, concepts like beginning and end dont work too well when ur talkin about an entire universe, since it was the universe itself that created these concepts, neway, if you kept on travelling in the universe, ud probably be in for an eternal ride {although it is believed by some physicists that if u kept on going INFINITELY in one direction in the universe, ud probably end up where u started, because u can not just bounce out of existance itself. n there isnt nething OUTSIDE the universe,

clickclick
There are theories that the universe has neither end nor begin but its definetly not a fact. There is no evidence of such a thing and it is impossible to prove.

If a universe has a point of creation (franklin created it) then it can it must have an end. The only way it could have no end is if it always existed and thus Franklin could not have created it.

Mainstream
Supes Prime and Spec are like god like. Xman and Frankie aren't on that level.

clickclick
Thats simply incorrect.

leonheartmm
um "click click" i was talkin from the point of veiw of physics, but if your talkin about it from a purely comic point of view then ur right, but if not then i am right.

and "manstream" i really dont think that you have actually read nething on this thread.

Mainstream
Dude that was cold.

leonheartmm
lol

clickclick
Well this was all in relation to Franklin and the Marvel Universe.

I dont really want to get into our Universe though because thats a little off topic.

leonheartmm
oh

Beyonder
String theory - The Theory Of Everything - says there's more than one universe. And it IS physics. It not only explains the "Theory Of Relativity" & it's counterpart "Quantum Mechanics," but also says that there are parallel universes to our own.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant

HarmonicFlo88
I see you saw tha show on PBS, Beyonder. it was a good show but tha string is a bit dumb if you ask me...

leonheartmm
yea beyonder it does, n i HAVENT said anything against the string theory, what does the string theory have to do with our universe beeing infinite in size!?!?!?!?!?!

and parallel universes dont exist OUSTDIE the universe{in physical 4 dimensions}, they exist PARALLEL to our universe or reality and are only seperated by a different wavelength of zero point energy, anyway hyperspace theorums cant in any way limit the physical size of our universe.

supremthor
my head hurts.......... What the f**k? What the f**k? messed messed

leonheartmm
LOL, {sorry got a bit carried away}

HarmonicFlo88
There is no such thing as size. size depends on comparison. planet earth is enormous in comparison to a state, which is huge in comparison to a house. however in comparison to jupiter...planet earth is tiny. can you imagine if we were tha size of beetles? the earth would seem to be tha size of jupiter since we would be so much smaller.

That's why i like that whole "pocket universe" thing. it makes PERFECT sense..a universe being huge to anything INSIDE but tiny enough to anything outside and fit in a pocket. : Franklin Richards.

Tha mind is everything. whoever is reading this, you're whole life as you know it exists in your brain alone. your body is just a vehicle for ur brain. everything you know i.e. the world exists all in your mind. therefore any being able to control/manipulate/destroy/etc your mind is God-like. : X-Man

If Super-man prime has a brain, hes done for...if he EXISTS, he's done for. If spectre doesn't have equal to living tribunals powers, this fight goes to X to tha man and F to tha R.

MERCILOUS
Current Spectre is only near that power level. Classic Spectre was equal.

leonheartmm
exactly my point HARMONIC, it doesnt matter how big the universe that franklin created is its the fact that he CREATED it in the first place that matters.

and clearing another thing, the spectar's power levels have not changed too much{they have but only momentarily, his true potential power remains as great as ever}, the only reason spectar was on par with tribunal ONCE was because the tribunal wasnt all that powerful then,

Tork
Frankliin dinn't create a universe he just created a pocket universe which is not even a galaxy. A pocket universe as his biggest form is just a galaxy so he has never created a universe.

batdude123
Franklin is just above a full-powered Galactus in terms of raw power, but Spectre is a freakin' beast and the Living Tribunal's counterpart. Superman is easily X-Man's superior. Spectre and Superman prime win this one.

UniOmni
I'd say the Spectres team wins, but Prime has no hardcore feats to carry his weight in this battle. Spectre carries and takes it with ease. He is all powerful, and all three are as bugs to him.

Darksaint
WTF happened to this topic? So many misconceptions......my mind was starting to believe all the shit that was posted in this topic.

Franlin, X-Man, and Superman Prime are no where near the levels Spectre is at.

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