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Hey guys. I'd like to put up a thread about a Martial Arts tournament with heroes & villains from Marvel and DC. This tournament ONLY allows hand-to-hand combat. Please, don't try to make it difficult by asking about telepathic/telekinetic abilities, teleportation, energy blasts, weapons, etc. They will not be allowed if any of the contestants have them. The contestants will battle in their costumes so they will not have any more armor than their default suits have. In some cases, some fighters may have superhuman strength so I will try my best to match them against each other. The point of this contest is to see what man or woman can be considered the best fighter. And this will be decided by your votes. But first I need more suggestions as to who would be good entrants for this contest. Please, only make suggestions for characters that clearly demonstrate skill in the Martial Arts. So far I am proposing:

Batman
Black Panther
Blade
Moon Knight
Night Thrasher
Psylocke
Shadowhawk

How bout adding in Iron Fist and Shang Chi? Their both excellent martial artist. Iron Fist is a still bad a$$ without using his chi. Shang Chi is a bad mofo too. Elektra is supposedly a martial artist also.

Good suggestions. All 3 have been added to the pool

I'm removing Blade becqause he has a healing factor. Please tell me if any of the above entrants also have healing factors.

Might Snake Eyes be applicable?

Black Cat, Capt. Amer., Nick Fury, Daredevil, Hawkeye, Punisher, Red Skull, Temugin will also be added

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Snake Eyes. but has he been a part of Marvel or DC? please correct me if he has, thanks

ok, I'm removing Shadowhawk cuz he's not from Marvel or DC.

How can you have a martial arts competition without having the best 3 from DC: Cassandra Cain, Richard Dragon, and Lady Shiva Woosan?

Blasphemy!

p.s: I have to wonder about the presence of Night Thrasher (whose hydraulic armor enables him to basically augment his physical skills) and Psylocke (who although an amazing martial artist uses her mutant-based psychic skills to seriously augment them). Just my thoughts.

Anyways, Shiva, Cassandra And Richard Dragon HAVE to be in any list with martial arts. If you really wanted to be extensive you should have added folks who are TRUE martial artists like Onyx and Master Kigiri instead of augmented types like Night Thrasher (including NThrasher wuld be like including DeathStroke, who also knows martial arts up the wazoo but is augmented), but that is ok. It is your thread and you have the prerogative to include whomever you choose (and unlike some you did not include Thor under the excuse that he is a 'martial artist' since he knows Asgardian fighting systems).

Anyways, DC could sue you if you left out Shiva, Cassandra (the current Batgirl) and Richard Dragon,who are the best human martial artists from DC in that order.

And Marvel would think you crazy if you left out Elektra and Shi from the list!

Not to mention that you left out the premier martial artist from the WildCats: Zealot!

Batman
Black Panther
Capt. Amer.
Moon Knight
Night Thrasher (Tentative)
Iron Fist
Red Skull
Temugin
Nick Fury
Daredevil
Richard Dragon
Hawkeye
Punisher
Shang Chi
Black Cat
Elektra
Psylocke
Cassandra Cain (current Batgirl as I'm told)
Lady Shiva Woosan

As you can see, I need more DC fighters and girls. If you guys give me enough good DC suggestions I can do the tournament w/ Marvel fighters on 1 side and DC on the other. Then the Marvel and DC champ would meet

Hey Spetsnaz. Thanks for giving me the DC characters! I'm more familiar with the Marvel fighters so that's why I was lacking on the DC side. And yeah I'll take into consideration about Night Thrasher. For Psylocke the rules are applied, she cannot use any powers beyond her learned martial arts

Hence, to be a true martial arts thread, the following have to be there:

Best from DC:

1) Lady Shiva Woosan.
2) Cassandra Cain.
3) Richard Dragon.
4) Bruce Wayne
5) Master Kigiri
6) Onyx

Best from Marvel:

NB: There are many super-powered ones, but i shall only have purely human exponents. Black Panther is good, but the Wakandan heart herb thing kind of bothers me. So is DareDevil, but his senses bother me. However i shall include them for two reasons: The first is that Batman and Richard Dragon have reached peak human ability, and the Wakandan herb does the same for a person. The herb also gives enhanced senses, but not super senses. Thus the Panther is kosher. As for DareDevil he has radar senses, which are meta in nature, but also has enhanced senses that should be allowed. They (the enhanced sense) should be allowed because Lady Shiva and Cassandra Cain also have amazing senses that allow them to know what a person will do from body posture, before they do it. Thus DD can be allowed, but he would use his enhanced hearing, smell, tactile sense and not his radar ability (which was caused by radioactivity in the chemical that got into his eyes).
Psyloche cannot because her abilities are not only mutant, but they are not due to training or natural causes.

1) Shang Chi.
2) Elektra
3) DareDevil
4) Black Panther

Best from others:

Zealot from the WildCats is amazing. She is basically a form of ELektra. Although a Kherubim, she uses martial arts solely and nothing else.

Shi from DarkHorse. Someone who can match Elektra blow for blow. In some ways an Elektra clone (actually in all ways).

But Zealot is from Image not Marvel or DC. Cause if you can use Zealot there's also Cole Cash who was trained by her.

Yeah I'm trying to keep it among Marvel and DC since they're the established comic powerhouses. Not to diss the other companies though cuz I was an Image fan back in the day. So in the end, the winner will essentially be the fighting champion of the Marvel/DC universe which is saying a lot!

Originally posted by spetznaz
Hence, to be a true martial arts thread, the following have to be there:

Best from DC:

1) Lady Shiva Woosan.
2) Cassandra Cain.
3) Richard Dragon.
4) Bruce Wayne
5) Master Kigiri
6) Onyx

Best from Marvel:

NB: There are many super-powered ones, but i shall only have purely human exponents. Black Panther is good, but the Wakandan heart herb thing kind of bothers me. So is DareDevil, but his senses bother me. However i shall include them for two reasons: The first is that Batman and Richard Dragon have reached peak human ability, and the Wakandan herb does the same for a person. The herb also gives enhanced senses, but not super senses. Thus the Panther is kosher. As for DareDevil he has radar senses, which are meta in nature, but also has enhanced senses that should be allowed. They (the enhanced sense) should be allowed because Lady Shiva and Cassandra Cain also have amazing senses that allow them to know what a person will do from body posture, before they do it. Thus DD can be allowed, but he would use his enhanced hearing, smell, tactile sense and not his radar ability (which was caused by radioactivity in the chemical that got into his eyes).
Psyloche cannot because her abilities are not only mutant, but they are not due to training or natural causes.

1) Shang Chi.
2) Elektra
3) DareDevil
4) Black Panther

Best from others:

Zealot from the WildCats is amazing. She is basically a form of ELektra. Although a Kherubim, she uses martial arts solely and nothing else.

Shi from DarkHorse. Someone who can match Elektra blow for blow. In some ways an Elektra clone (actually in all ways).

p.s: Karate Kid is the best, but for all intents and purposes he is a meta and should not be included. He beat up SuperBoy (the Pre-Crisis Superboy), and knows intergalactic fighting systems. Thus, although he is the best in DC he just cannot be here.

Can Psylocke fight w/out the use of her psychic powers?

And yeah, don't worry. I'll try my best to match fighters with stronger senses against each other.

She has sparred with the likes of Wolverine, Kitty Pryde, Weapon Omega(from Alpha Flight), without employing her mental powers. Well it's a judgement call.

Psylocke is an amazing fighter, with or without her 'tele' abilities. The thing is that without them she is not good enough to make it to the semi-finals of the list put up. I'd say the finalists would be Shang-Chi, Richard Dragon, Shiva, Cassandra, Elektra and Bruce.
And after that it would be Shang Chi, Richard Dragon, Shiva and Cassandra.
And in the end it would probably be Shang Chi versus Shiva.
And once this happens it will be a fanboy battle, with DC heads saying Shiva and Marvel heads saying Shang Chi (and both sides would be 100% correct in their choices).
PSylocke wouldn't come near in making it to the finals - but she is far from a slouch.

And this is a good thread either way.

What about Dick Grayson? Sure he's not on par with Bruce but he's closer then a lot.

What does Onyx do?

I'm in the process of updating the list. He's on there

Oh okay then.

MARVEL:
Black Panther (no herb use)
Capt. Amer.
Moon Knight
Night Thrasher (Tentative)
Iron Fist
Red Skull
Temugin
Nick Fury
Daredevil
Hawkeye
Punisher
Shang Chi
Black Cat
Elektra
Psylocke (tentative)

DC:
Batman
Nightwing
Richard Dragon
Master Kigiri
Timothy Drake (aka current Robin)
Onyx
Cassandra Cain (aka current Batgirl)
Lady Shiva Wu-san

Right now I have only enough for 8 Marvel and 8 DC fighters unless anybody has anymore legit suggestions for DC fighters

I will have to make special considerations for some fights. Like say Iron Fist may have to summon his chi for one fight to match another fighter that has superhuman strength and in the next fight he can't summon chi in order to remain on the same level w/ a "normal" fighter

She is an insane female fighter who was trained as a monk in the same Buddhist/Daosit (i'm not sure if they are Buddhist or Daoist, but it is one of them) monastery that Ollie honed his skills with the bow. She was so good that Batman has used her several times.

She is around 5 7, African American, with bald head, and with fighting abilities by the drove. She is far from the best, but in pure martial arts she is better than NightWing.

What does Master Kigiri do?

what about lady deathstrike before she got her implants? Or domino? Both of them are masters of several forms of combat

Ah yes. I forgot about those deadly ladies. So I will most likely add them to the Marvel pool cuz I need more females fighters overall. But I really need more DC fighters if anything or I'll have to cut some of the Marvel fighters from the contest

Some more DC characters.
Here are the excerpts, all copied and pasted for your enjoyment (LOL):

Bruce Wayne (with Kigiri hidden within the text):

Batman is the pinnacle of true masters. He is the highest master in 127 major martial arts styles and he knows at least quadruple amount of other styles he can utilize when needed. He is an accomplished master who has made a style of fighting for himself. He observes and watches his opponents, using their styles against themselves and then switches styles to best counter their own. However, the biggest threat in Batman's martial arts skills is the fact that he can study and learn and then defeat the opponent. Only the masters like Shiva and Master Girigi's ninjas have given Batman a run for his money. He can use a style or a plethora or go full bore and use all of his skills, also this fact makes him an unconventional and unpredictable opponent, quite capable of using Karate and then switching to Aikido, from there to Jujutsu and then Capoeira and from there to Jeet Kune Do and from there Crane and Tiger style and maybe even Drunken boxing. While combating Batman, you do not face a style, you face different styles intermeshed into a fine art, a poetry of motion and discipline. From Aikido to Yaw-Yan, Batman is the most dangerous combatant on Earth. Many obscure specialties of forms and skills are in his possession. He is the master, second to Master Kirigi himself, in the art of the Whispering Hand. This punch can obliterate bodies, destroy the whole target or the real inside. Or it can be used to knock out, cause heart attacks. Only Kirigi and Batman have progressed in this art to this level. The Tiger Fist he learnt from H'Sien Tan in the Himalayas also. The Tiger is punch that can destroy anything, from wood to granite. It is reputedly the most difficult upper cut style punch ever devised. It requires the wielder to know his body, to completely and utterly be in tune with himself and the surround world in order to succeed and then there is the Leopard Punch. It is Lady Shiva's trademark and yet Batman is the one who's mastered this technique to the level that not only is he lethal, he can disarm and disable opponents with it, a level of mastery Shiva refuses to learn. Then there are other techniques the Bat uses, to disarm and disable opponents: from spinning attacks to arm locks to pins. All in all, he is a one-man army.
To add to the things, Cain taught Bruce to read his opponents' moves and body language. He's not as well taught as Cassandra Cain but he is almost as good as Cain in this field. Furthermore Batman's skill in the Haragei, the hyper expansion of senses, and the Kiai, the ability to feel someone's intent long before it happens, this is called Sakki. This means that Batman has the ability to control the fight in any which way and he is even able to, thanks to his training, take the combat from the physical plain to the mental level, as demonstrated in Legends of the Bat: Tao pt 2. Here Batman demonstrated his near full capabilities as he took the combat to the mental plane, his Sakki, Kiai and Haragei turning the combat into a contest of wills. No physical punches were thrown but after that exhausting battle, Batman emerged victorious. Sakki is the intent, but in many ways it can be utilized quite a lot like the Chi into projecting the mental energy into someone else.




Cassandra Cain:

From a young age, Cassandra was trained as a living weapon. Instead of reading, writing and arithmetic, she was taught all of the 127 major styles of martial arts. Her entire brain was devoted to fighting, replacing her language skills with fighting skills. She is an expert in everything from Aikido to Yaw Yan and many, many things in between. Even the skills she doesn't often use herself are there, so she can recognize the style and how best to fight against it of her foes. Her skills are so well trained that she has even beaten Lady Shiva in a fight, elevating her to the unofficial title of the world's greatest martial artist.
Her senses are so attuned that she can dodge bullets - blindfolded.


Dick Grayson (Nightwing)

Being a practiced master in only a half dozen or so martial arts, Dick is an accomplished martial artist who is reknown around the globe for his grace and prowess in combat. As knowledgeable as he is of the martial arts, he is not the world's greatest practicioner of the arts, such as those like Connor Hawke or Lady Shiva, Batgirl or even the current Robin, Tim Drake. Rather, Nightwing is such a formatable opponent because he prefers to ultilize a method to his combat more in line with his mentor and greatest teacher; The Batman. Dick is rather imposing to square off against thusly for two primarily reasons - the first is that he is adept in many styles and arts, combining them all into a very natural and adept blend that suits his own natural strengths (acrobatics) and weaknesses to make him stronger rather than set in any one form and secondly, he cheats. His greatness and reputation as the suberb combatant that he is doesn't stem from a mastery of training or martial skills, but rather his gift to go with the flow and maintain his own balance and do thatever he can to get his foe off theirs.


Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael)

Similarly to his knowledge with swords, Azrael has available to him the combat prowess of more years than most humans can comprehend. The many styles he can call upon include various forms of karate, kickboxing, wrestling disciplines, and a few lifetimes worth of dirty street-fighting. While he lacks the sheer knowledge of various styles that Batman does, Azrael is able to compete on a near level with the Dark Knight. In fact it is from the Bat that he learned much of his ability to guage different styles and how to better integrate his own knowledge into a comprehensive and flexible, customizeable fighting style. Most often his techniques favor brutal strength-based attacks that savage opponents, and can get quite dirty in keeping with Azrael's dangerous nature


LAdy Shiva Woosan

It almost goes without saying. Lady Shiva is the best martial artist on the planet. Not only is she the best on the planet, she may be the best that anyone has ever heard of - anywhere. This is not nearly enough to explain exactly how good Shiva has become. Most people approach the martial arts as a form of defense or fighting or even something so mundane as exercise. To Shiva this truly is an art. It is an art she has dedicated herself to mind, soul and body. She has been practicing and perfecting this art for over two decades now and it shows in every motion she makes, her body moving with a grace and fluidity which has become unconscious.

Thousands of different punches and kicks and moves all combine in her head to create an almost infinite number of ways to take down an opponent. Not only will she choose the most effective way to fight an opponent but the most aesthetically pleasing, the most stylish and artistic way to win. Every blow is placed precisely for an intended effect, followed by another and another, making a composition beautiful to behold.

Connor Hawke:

A son of the original Green Arrow, Connor Hawke entered the same ashram monastery that Oliver Queen had sought asylum in years earlier. Raised as a Buddhist monk under the tutelage of Master Jansen, Connor trained extensively in the martial arts. Though he sought inner peace, he also yearned for adventure, spurred by the adoration he held for the father who never knew him. A new path appeared for the teenager when Ollie returned once more to the monastery. Hawke didn't reveal that he was Ollie's son at first and traveled a while with Queen and mercenary Eddie Fyers until the elder Green Arrow's death in an airplane explosion over Metropolis.

Continuing his father's legacy, Connor became the second Green Arrow, eventually joining the JLA for a brief period. Though an expert marksman, Connor's greatest talents are in the martial arts. In fact, his reputation as a hand-to-hand combatant brought him unintended attention as the target of a challenge by a martial arts cult, a challenge in which the deadly Lady Shiva nearly killed him. With Oliver Queen's recent return to life, father and son protect Star City together. The junior bowman is now recuperating from a near-fatal injury at the hands of the bizarre villain known as Onomatopoeia.


Richard Dragon:

Master of masters, Richard Dragon has taken his training in the martial arts to the extreme and beyond.
Once the best martial artist in the world he lost the title to Shiva Wu-san, apparently due to his love for her that caused him to not best her in battle. He is still considered by some to be the best.
Adept in over a dozen killing styles, and all 127 major styles, Dragon is a terrible enemy. Able to fight several armed enemies at once, while blindfolded, he has taken the arts to a new level.
As said he is a master of masters, knowing all known fighting styles, and personally training all but one of the members of the League of Assassins in fighting styles ranging from Capoeira to Monkey kungfu. The only one he never trained was his love Shiva, who instead trained him.
Dragon was also one of the teachers that Bruce Wayne went to for his martial education.


Ben Turner (Bronze Tiger)

The original teacher that introduced Richard Dragon, Ben is a true master. Using strength and speed he is the tiger, an unstoppable fighting machine. Knowing several martial arts he is one of the best in the world.

Did you see any of his movies.
Blade would destroy all these people jsut like he did squads of armed henchmen and super vampires st the same time.

Every single one of these guys fight hordes of armed men, often with out getting hit.

Are Iron Fist and Shang Chi aloud to do chi ampage, because even with out chi amping Shang would break even with Shiva.

Stupid.

Hey is Karate kid from the legion of super heroes over the top? Or stick who taught daredevil and elektra. Stick has died and was reborn as a child. So it would have to be before his death. And Karate kid lives in the 31'st century. Karate kid would be unfair, maybe? He is only human, but he can probably give super man a hard time.

Gambit and Domino will also be considered

you need the master of ninjitsu and his students in this man

Blade is not allowed in this tournament because he has an inherent healing factor whereas the other possible contestants named so far do not. They may have powers that heal themselves, but they will not be allowed to use them

I believe chi is a very real thing in the martial arts. But in this case, Iron Fist cannot summon his chi through his hands because they can give him healing powers and an unfair strength advantage over his opponents in this contest. I am unfamiliar with how Shang Chi uses his chi, but if it's anything beyond just concentrating inner strength, he will also not be allowed to use it.

Current pool of fighters

MARVEL:
Black Panther
Capt. Amer.
Moon Knight
Gambit
Night Thrasher (Tentative)
Iron Fist
Red Skull
Temugin
Nick Fury
Daredevil
Hawkeye
Punisher
Shang Chi
Domino
Black Cat
Elektra
Psylocke (tentative)

DC:
Azrael
Batman
Ben Turner (aka Bronze Tiger)
Connor Hawke
Nightwing
Richard Dragon
Master Kirigi
Timothy Drake (aka current Robin)
Onyx
Cassandra Cain (aka current Batgirl)
Lady Shiva Wu-san

How is Karate Kid not in the DC list when he would literally destroy all of those DC characters listed?

I have been told that Karate Kid is a metahuman and lives in the 31st century.

You were told wrong.

Pleas educate me on Karate Kid's fighting ability.

He's not meta (yes, 30th century though). He is an orphan with what appears to be Japanese and European ancestry.

He was taught to be the very best by The Oriental Expert (quick question -- are there any asians here? is "oriental" offensive? I always thought it was). Val Armorr was taught a brand of "super karate" from birth.

Karate Kid is skilled in every form of combat known in the galaxy, from boxing to savate to kendo. He has also made it a point to become an expert with every weapon used in hand-to-hand combat, from fencing foils to Jovian Trident spears to Krishnu gauntlets from Gaman Tol. The Legion normally excludes heroes who use weapons, but with Val they are only a sideline. Super-karate is his specialty, and with it he has done super-human things. By building up the amount of chi (life-energy) into his body Karate Kid can increase his strength, speed, endurance and toughness (AD 367). Karate Kid has stated that if Superboy took up karate, the Boy of Steel might be able to punch through a foot-thick slab of Manganium Inertron, a he normally cannot do (AD 367). Using this force, in application with his knowledge of points of stress and weakness (AD 346), Karate Kid has:

Cracked through the hull of the Khund flagship (AD 347), stopped a runaway sport-speedster with one blow (AD 351), knocked out a Jovian Mastodon with one chop (AD 358), cracked through the powerful, six-inch Durlamite gates of the Metroplois Jail (AD 360), damaged tanks with a two-handed chop (AD 360, AD 367), kicked away an air car from the path of a falling boulder (AD 361), split a rock in two, and took out an opponent with each piece (AD 361), fought a half-dozen assailants at one time (AD 358, AD 361, AD367) and stamped the ground with both feet, shaking a whole street and knocking a dozen soldiers off their feet(AD 367). Once when he was trapped inside a giant hollow diamond, Val located its natural flaw and used his iron will to coax his body to make one final chop which shattered the gem (AD 365).

A few feats of strength. PC Val was a 15 on a 1-10 scale in terms of martial arts. Post crisis is probably "only" a 12.

I keep thinking of Ralph Macchio when I hear his name.

-AC

wax on wax off.

i thought you said you could add lady deathstrike before she had her implants?

I say that Temugin and Lady Shiva along with Cassandra would be the finalists.

Right now, I have to wait to see if there will be enough DC fighters to make the tournament a 32-person contest. Otherwise, I may have to have a qualifying round among the Marvel figthers. So I put in Domino and Deathstrike is on the "bubble watch" right now cuz there's already an excess of Marvel fighters.

I was quite surprised when I read Temugin's profile on the Marvel website

Karate Kid will be added to the DC pool in hopes that I can have 16 fighters on both sides.

Any further suggestions that you readers would like to make, please try to make suggestions for legitimate DC martial artists so I can bring the DC pool to 16

Domino has that psionic field thing that gives her good luck and her opponents bad luck. Will that change the battle at all? She can't control it so does it give her an unfair advantage?

Oh, I knew about her psionic good luck ability, but I didn't know she couldn't control it. Is that how it really goes in the comics?

Haha, I may just make up something where she wears a headband that neutralizes that power. I am trying my best to neutralize any fighters' artificial means of increasing their chances of winning. When I actually get to start the tournament I will make sure to be very clear as to how each fighter must compete fairly.

Really though Temugin has even in one blow CRACKED old shellhead's armor. That is a huge feat. Now will he be having the ten rings as well or not? Either way he is a sure bet.

No ten rings. They are considered an "artificial means of improving the fighter's chances of victory." He must take them off before his fight, but yes his profile does make him sound like a badass

Are Nick Fury and Redskull really martial artists of high caliber?

I'm going by their profiles on the Marvel website. They sound like qualified.

no offense but I disagree with the addition of Domino and Psylock

TO ALL READERS OF THIS THREAD, IF I DO NOT RECEIVE ENOUGH QUALIFIED SUGGESTIONS TO GIVE THE DC DIVISION 16 FIGHTERS BY 12:00 AM TONIGHT, I WILL BE FORCED TO CUT SOME OF THE DC FIGHTERS AND HOLD A QUALIFYING ROUND FOR THE MARVEL DIVISION TO CREATE A 16-MAN TOURNAMENT. I REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO THIS BECAUSE I WANT ALL OF THE FANS TO BE ABLE TO GET THEIR FAVORITE FIGHTER IN, BUT THIS CAN'T HAPPEN UNLESS I GET 16 DC FIGHTERS TOTAL WHICH WOULD ALLOW A 32-MAN TOURNAMENT. THANK YOU!

Yes, there are some issues with these girls. Psylocke would be forced to not activate her psychic powers, thus she can't augment her natural abilities but she's still an excellent fighter. Domino's psionic ability, which apparently she can't control, may get her bumped off in favor of a Lady Deathstrike (before her implants) as someone suggested or one of the Black Widows. But both of these female fighters are skilled martial artists nonetheless

WELL there aren't sixteen DC fighters. U are asking too much
DC is more know for their over the top more than Godpowered characters

I most likely will have to hold the qualifying round for the Marvel division. Even then, I may still have to cut a couple of fighters from being able to qualify. Just as with everyone else, I will take your concerns into consideration and ultimately the fans will decide who represents the Marvel division.

Current pool of fighters

MARVEL:
Black Panther
Capt. Amer.
Moon Knight
Gambit
Night Thrasher (Tentative)
Iron Fist
Red Skull
Temugin
Nick Fury
Daredevil
Hawkeye
Punisher
Shang Chi
Domino (tentative)
Black Cat
Elektra
Psylocke (tentative)
Lady Deathstrike (prior to implants)

DC:
Azrael
Batman
Ben Turner (aka Bronze Tiger)
Connor Hawke
Nightwing
Richard Dragon
Master Kirigi
Karate Kid
Timothy Drake (aka current Robin)
Onyx
Cassandra Cain (aka current Batgirl)
Lady Shiva Wu-san

well how many DC fighters do u have so far?
cuz then let's just eliminate some Marvel ones, the most qualified.
Or you could do a one Marvel vs DC in stand of a all out battle royale.
are we gonna keep same battlefield conditions for all?

I have 12 DC fighters so far. If it'd be ok w/ the the fans, I'd prefer giving 4 of the DC figthers "bye weeks" so it's as if they fought. I'd rather do this than throw in 4 filler fighters. The 4 most qualified DC fighters would get the byes. the reason I mention 16 and 32 is because a tournament must be done by powers of 2 in order to guarantee only 2 finalists compete in the end.

Wait...you're including Karate Kid in this? If so, you're unleveling the entire tournament. There's no way anyone on that list is coming close to Karate Kid. He chopped a BATTLESHIP in half. A BATTLESHIP.

LOL, good god. Ok, I've admitted I'm not as knowledgeable on DC as I am w/ Marvel, so I've relied on input from fans as to what kind of fighter Karate Kid is. Anyone please tell me, what is Karate Kid's true skill level? Basically will he fight a good match or end it w/ one punch?

If Karate Kid is indeed as strong as Demigawd says, then yes I have to take KK into reconsideration becuz, as far as I know, none of the other fights have that degree of strength

Karate Kid is capable of hurting Superman. And I don't mean Batman-style, "Get a kryptonite ring and use all kinds of tricks to hurt Superman". I mean...walk right up and punch Superman and hurt him. And that's just from his martial arts training.

Does KK's power come completely from his training? Does he have inherent super strength or something? Can he tone down his strength at all? Maybe I'll cut him since he's from the 30th century. As far as I can tell all of the other fighters are at most a century apart from when their character backgrounds begin.

Yeah, he has absolutely NO super-powers, though it's been theorized that he has the natural ability, like Karnak, to identify the weak spot in anything. But that hasn't been resolved.

He's beaten a Daxamite before (Daxamites are said to be stronger than Kryptonians), he's fought 30th Century Superboy to a standstill, and he's fought and beaten both Thunder and Mon'El at the same time.

Karate Kid, despite being just a human, could likely beat this entire list by himself.

He's proficient in martial arts across the Galaxy, and from different timelines, too. So he learned secrets that no one else can hope to know.

Oh, some additions to your DC list would include Catwoman, Huntress and Black Canary.

Thanks. I did think of them, but I wasn't sure how skilled they were in martial arts.

I maaayyyy keep KK in because a bunch of DC fans have said he deserves to be in there and I agree from everything people have told me about him. As I said in other threads, it's up the fans to choose the winner of each fight so when I post the DC divison fights, he may or may not advance to the final cuz it depends on the votes ge gets

I'll be mortified if KK doesn't make it. But that's the nature of votes...

Current pool of fighters

MARVEL:
Black Panther
Capt. Amer.
Moon Knight
Gambit
Night Thrasher (Tentative)
Iron Fist
Red Skull
Temugin
Nick Fury
Daredevil
Hawkeye
Punisher
Shang Chi
Domino (tentative)
Black Cat
Elektra
Psylocke (tentative)
Lady Deathstrike (prior to implants)

DC:
Azrael
Batman
Ben Turner (aka Bronze Tiger)
Connor Hawke
Nightwing
Richard Dragon
Master Kirigi
Karate Kid
Timothy Drake (aka current Robin)
Onyx
Cassandra Cain (aka current Batgirl)
Lady Shiva Wu-san
Catwoman
Black Canary
Huntress

If anyone can give one more good suggestion for the DC pool I can set up a 32-man tournament!!!

Does anyone know about Deathstroke. I read somewhere he has a healing factor?

Katana

Know where I can find some info on Katana?

IF U ARE GONNA PUT SOMEONE THAT CAN BEAT SOMEONE STRONGER THAN SUPERMAN THEN TEMUGIN SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO POSSESS HIS TEN RINGS AS WELL. C'MON LET'S BE FAIR HERE.

Ok, here's the deal, I personally don't want to put KK in because realistically he sounds like he could wipe the floor with most of the contestants on either side and I'd like to imagine a Martial Arts tournament where the fighters go at it for a while in order to win. So I most likely will keep him in becuz (1) this is all for fun and I want what seems like a lot of KK fans to be able to imagine him fighting in a Martial Arts tournament of this magnitude (2) the winners of each fight depends on the fan votes, so it's not guaranteed he'll win it all. As you and others have made clear, in "real life" he could very likely win it all, but if he doesn't receive enough votes to move past a certain round then that's just how it goes. Given another tournament that maybe I or someone else posts, he could have another chance to win it all.

As for Temugin, in previous threads I have said that EVERY fighter may not use any artificial means to increase his/her chances of winning. His rings definitely fall into this stipulation. It just so happens that Karate Kid is incredibly powerful from his own intensive martial arts training. Temugin can fully handle himself w/out the rings and the only exception I'll make in using "artificial aids" are to help one fighter match another fighter who is clearly advantaged in an area. For example, I would consider allowing Temugin to use his rings to increase his strength to be able to compete with the strength of, say, Capt. Amer. or the Black Cat since they have the super-soldier serum in them. That is IF the fans vote Temugin that far enough to possibly meet either of those 2. But I will certainly not allow Temugin to use his rings to increase his strength against someone like Hawkeye whose strength is at a human level for someone who trains hard.

But LordFear, I truly appreciate your input into helping me make as fair a contest as possible, btu above all I want you to have fun with this as everyone will when this tournament finally begins.

Very well, they are your rules and u have explained yourself quite fairly. I just want to see my guy get a fair shot. I am certain that the fans will vote for him that far because I am hoping that they recognize how incredibly powerful Temugin really is even if it's without his pop's rings.

If Cap is in this, then Slade should be in this too.

Info on Katana:

First Appearance: Brave and the Bold #200
Known Relatives: Maseo Yamashiro (husband, deceased), Yuki Yamashiro (daughter, deceased), Reiko Yamashiro (son, deceased), Tameo Yamashiro (brother-in-law, deceased)
Group Affiliation: formerly Outsiders
Known Allies: Geo-Force, Batman, Halo, Oracle, Black Canary
Major Enemies: Tadashi, Yakuza, Takeo Yamashiro,
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Black

Tatsu was nothing more than a loyal housewife who was very much in love with her husband, Maseo. After she fell in love with her eventual husband and began dating him, she became aware that Maseo's brother, Takeo, also desired her. The two vied for her affections and a long courting process ensued which resulted in Tatsu choosing to marry Maseo. Takeo could not come to terms with his loss and took to a life of crime, becoming involved with the Yakuza, a Japanese criminal organisation. Tatsu lived happily with her husband and the two had a growing family. Takeo had meanwhile, become a weapons dealer. One of his purchases was two identical swords from a dealer known as General Karnz. Using one of these swords he killed Maseo out of vengeance and started a fire that claimed the lives of Tatsu's children as well.

Tatsu was filled with anger and decided that she must avenge her family's death. Entering into the martial arts, Tatsu trained hard and after much time claimed the sword that was responsible for her husband's death. The sword was known as the Soultaker and served as a bitter reminder of Maseo's death. However, it was also a magical sword that trapped the soul of anyone killed by it within the sword itself. This meant that Tatsu was not alone and could always talk to her husband. Tatsu began training as a samurai under a master called Tadashi. After much time she graduated from his tutorship and left for America where she intended to use her talents to fight for justice. She took the codename Katana after the sword that she wielded.

Years after her arrival in America, Tatsu journeyed to Markovia, a small Baltic state, where she managed to track down Karnz. Engaging him in a short fight she managed to achieve vengeance by killing him. Soon after the fight she encountered an unconscious young girl who was in the words. Naming her Halo, the duo assisted Batman in rescuing his employee Lucius Fox from the tyrant, Baron Bedlam. When Batman requested further aid from the Justice League in pursuing his vendetta against the Baron they declined and Batman resigned his membership. Instead he formed a team designed to be pro-active against threats called the Outsiders. Tatsu and Halo were charter members of the team.

The team managed to free Markovia from Bedlam's tyranny and they hourneyed to Gotham were they set up headquarters. Tatsu gained a new life as guardian of Halo and also set up a Japanes book store. Tatsu and Halo stayed in Bruce Wayne's former penthouse, the same building that housed the Outsider's headquarters.

Meanwhile, Takeo was still at large and had followed Tatsu to Gotham City. Secretly he switched swords with her and left for Tokyo with the Outsiders on his tail. Takeo took the sword to his master, the godfather of the Yakuza, known only as the Oyabun. Performing a specific ritual, the Oyabun and Takeo managed to recall the spirits of all those whom the blade had slain. These souls then took corporeal form and were slaves to Oyabun's whim. Amongst their number were legendary Japanese mercenaries and assassins such as Shuriken, Blowdart, Nunchaku and Anthor Stoneaxe. Also resurrected was Maseo. Katana fought a long and arduous battle but managed to reclaim the Soultaker. Finally killing Takeo, Tatsu put all her ghosts to rest. Unfortunately though, by undoing the ritual, her husband returned into the sword too.

Eventually the Outsiders split from Batman's leadership and took up residence in Markovia where they were funded by the Markovian crown. Having accepted offers of being Markovia's official agents they moved to Los Angeles where they officially operated from out of the Markovian embassy. They did however, have a secret headquarters just off shore. Tatsu was still plagued by her past though as the Oyabun returned into her life. Sending a trickster ghost, known as a tengu, Oyabun managed to capture Tatsu. Eventually Halo and Looker who used other tengu and the tengu leader, Tengu-Suma to aid them in their battle, rescued Tatsu.

The team eventually disbanded after a series of tragic events surrounding Geo-Force's parents and Markovia. The Outsiders were forced to defend Markovia against the Manhunters and during the fight Halo was knocked into a coma. Tatsu left the team so she could tend to Halo's wounds. Eventually though the team re-formed and returned to Markovia. However, they were trapped within a public relations nightmare and they were forced to become outlaws. Eventually the charges were dropped and the team fractured. Halo died but was reborn in a new body. This resurrection put immense strain on Tatsu's relationship with Halo. Tatsu joined a team with Geo-Force and Technocrat, taking the lead of her team. One of her team's missions was to dispatch Tadashi, Tatsu's old mentor. He was trying to gain the Soultaker and commissioned Lady Shiva to gain the sword. Despite Shiva's reputation as being the greatest fighter in the world, Shiva lost to Tatsu in a sword fight and Tatsu managed to find her old mentor and take his life.

Eventually the two splinter teams rejoined but not for long. After disbanding Tatsu has kept her association with Halo and Geo-Force. While they are not an official team they have still been seen to assist during major crises. Her close ties to Batman saw her fighting by his side during the Imperiex crisis. Most recently Tatsu was called upon by Black Canary to join a group of female mercenaries in rescuing Oracle from Senator Pullman. Tatsu was instrumental in fighting off the Senator's forces alongside Gypsy and was given Oracle's card afterwards plus the promise of a favour should she need it.

Katana has no metahuman powers but is enormously skilled as a martial artist. She is a fully trained samurai warrior and has few equals with a sword. She is also vastly talented unarmed and has almost beaten Lady Shiva, who is known as the premier martial artist in the world. Her sword is a mystic blade that captures the soul of every person it kills. The sword has existed for many centuries and its user can communicate to any of the souls it contains.


APPEARANCES:
Adventures of the Outsiders #33-38
Batman and the Outsiders #1-32
Batman and the Outsiders Annual #1-2
Brave and The Bold #200
Birds of Prey #67
Crisis on Infinite Earths #3-7, 9-10, 12
DC Comics Presents #83
Flash (2nd series) #8
Guy Gardner: Warrior #29
Infinity, Inc. Special #1
Invasion! #2
Millennium #1, 3-5
New Teen Titans (1st series) #37
New Teen Titans (2nd series) #13
Outsiders (1st series) #1-28
Outsiders (2nd series) #0-12, 14-15, 18-24
Outsiders Annual (1st series) #1
Outsiders Special #1
Red Tornado #3
Secret Origins (2nd series) #6
Showcase '93 #9-11
Suicide Squad (1st series) #53-57
Tales of the Teen Titans Annual #3
The Fury of Firestorm, The Nuclear Man (2nd series) #67
War of the Gods #4
Wonder Woman (2nd series) #174-175
World's Finest Comics #300, 302

Oh, there's also Asano Nitobe, who might be an even better option than Kitana. Or even Manhunter (non-Martian), who was trained by Nitobe. In fact, I'd replaced Kitana with Nitobe, and replace Huntress with Manhunter.

For certain characters, including Temugin, I'll post links w/ the matches so the fans who aren't familiar with the characters can at least have some idea who they are.

What are Slade/Deathstroke's powers & abilities? Haha, don't need the entire history

Formerly Slade Wilson, patriotic soldier for the U.S. military, he currently holds the title as the single greatest metahumarn/warrior in the DC Universe. Slade's physiology was accidentally mutated during a military anti-truth serium experiment which involved a synthetic from of adrnaline. But rather than increasing his ability to resist suggestion, it increased both his strength, senses, and reflexes. Along with these physical changes, the dark side of his psychology was amplified, making him more agressive and "evil". All this made him the proverbial "Super-Soldier" (sorry had to say it).
He currently provides his services to the highest bidder, and shows no signs of the handicap that should be present with only having one eye (the other was shot out by his ex-wife).
Slade Wilson is capable of using 90% of his brain capacity, making him a master tactician. He also has heightened strength, agility, stamina and reflexes. In addition, he has rapid-healing powers and is immortal, being able to return from the grave and regenerate himself. Slade also has years of combat training. He is a master in hand to hand combat and is skilled in use of all kinds of weaponry.

"In addition, he has rapid-healing powers and is immortal, being able to return from the grave and regenerate himself"

That really makes me not want to put him in

Well, the fights aren't to the death. Just to the KO, right? He's basically just like Cap...

The fights will go like this: 2 fighters must battle each other until one verbally concedes the battle by saying, "I give up"

Then again I may put him in because by adding him I can have 10 men & 6 women in both divisions which I think would be a good representation of the fighting talen from both universes

For any further suggestions, all I need is a male DC fighter.

Ok, the following is just a PRELIMINARY list of the fighters that will represent Marvel in the Martial Arts Tournament. The list will be finalized along with the DC list at 12:00 AM tonight. I am simply putting up this list to keep everyone up-to-date who has been following this thread. Remember, the fighters chosen are largely a result of the fans' input on this thread, not my personal bias. Thank you

Marvel Division: (in alphabetical order)
1. Black Panther
2. Captain America
3. Daredevil
4. Hawkeye
5. Iron Fist
6. Moon Knight
7. Night Thrasher
8. Punisher
9. Shang Chi
10. Temugin
11. Black Cat
12. Black Widow (Natasha Romanov)
13. Black Widow (Capt. Yelena Belova)
14. Elektra
15. Lady Deathstrike (prior to implants)
16. Psylocke

What about black canary, if she is forbidden to scream?

I already placed Black Canary in the DC pool and if she is selected to represent DC she will indeed be forbidden to scream.

I am in the process of finalizing the Marvel and DC rosters for the tournament, I will be back shortly...

So here it is! Finally! After taking in all of the great input that you fans have given me, here is the final list of Marvel and DC fighters who will compete in the tournament to determine the Marvel/DC martial arts champion! SWEEET!!! My last post on this thread will show each battle in the 1st round. From then on, I will be posting threads with polls for the fans to select who they think will be the winner of each fight.

*In alphabetical order
Marvel Division:
1. Black Panther
2. Captain America
3. Daredevil
4. Hawkeye
5. Iron Fist
6. Moon Knight
7. Night Thrasher
8. Punisher
9. Shang Chi
10. Temugin
11. Black Cat
12. Domino
13. Black Widow (Capt. Yelena Belova)
14. Elektra
15. Lady Deathstrike (prior to implants)
16. Psylocke

DC Division:
1. Azrael
2. Batman
3. Ben Turner (aka Bronze Tiger)
4. Connor Hawke (aka son of Green Arrow)
5. Drakon
6. Karate Kid
7. Master Kirigi
8. Nightwing
9. Richard Dragon
10. Timothy Drake (aka current Robin)
11. Black Canary
12. Cassandra Cain (aka current Batgirl)
13. Catwoman
14. Huntress
15. Lady Shiva
16. Talia

Here are the 1st round matchups in the Marvel/DC Martial Arts Tournament. The women were paired randomly and then the men were paired randomly by drawing their names. Then, each fight was randomly drawn to see which number slot it would take. I will fully explain the rules and stipulations of the tournament when I post the poll threads allowing you to vote for the winner of each fight. The title of the poll threads will begin with "Marvel/DC Martial Arts Tournament"

Marvel Division
1. Psylocke vs Black Cat
2. Domino vs Elektra
3. Black Widow vs Lady Deathstrike
4. Punisher vs Temugin
5. Night Thrasher vs Captain America
6. Black Panther vs Shang Chi
7. Daredevil vs Moonknight
8. Hawkeye vs Iron Fist

DC Division
1. Talia vs Black Canary
2. Batman vs Karate Kid
3. Lady Shiva vs Huntress
4. Bronze Tiger vs Richard Dragon
5. Robin vs Master Kirigi
6. Cassandra Cain vs Catwoman
7. Drakon vs Azrael
8. Nightwing vs Connor Hawke

Within each division Slot 1 winner will fight Slot 2 winner in the next round, 3 against 4, etc. and this will continue until finally the Marvel and DC finalists battle each other for the championship.

I say
Marvel
1. psylocke
2. not sure
3. lady deathstrike
4. Temugin
5. Night Thrasher
6. Shang Chi
7. Daredevil
8. Hawkeye

DC
1. Black Canary
2. Batman
3. Lady Shiva
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Master Kirigi
6. Cassandra Cain
7. Azrael
8. Connor Hawke

I am in the process of posting the poll threads, so please go to vote when they come up later. Thanks!

Uh...Wh4t3v3rPhr34k, Karate Kid would hand Batman his ass.

thats your opinion...

It is NOT his opinion. It is the truth.

Karate Kid is beyond each and every person on both Marvel and DC who is human.
On a scale of 1-10 in fighting ability, with people like Shiva having a 10, Karate Kid had a 15!
While Batman knows all 127 major martial arts in the world, Karate Kid knows many intergalactic (yes, according to DC) martial systems.
Karate Kid beat pre-crisis SuperBoy.

Let me put it this way, there was a reason i did not include Karate Kid when i was compiling some of the DC human fighters. The reason i did so was because Karate Kid is unbeatable by anyone without Superman/Hulk class strength, or amazing psychic abilities (that can penetrate his powerful mind).
No one in DC/Marvel, in this list, can even be a threat to KK.

Not Shang-Chi, not Shiva, not Richard Dragon.
And not Batman.

DC made Karate Kid to be to the martial arts what PRe-Crisis Superman was to superheroes.
Beyond all comparison.

Any person who knows comics, and knows the various characters well, would tell you that based on the names put in both Marvel and DC that no one (and i mean no one) comes even close to Karate Kid.
Shang Chi is arguably the best in Marvel, and Shiva, Cassandra and R.Dragon scoop the NORMAL cream in DC, but Karate Kid is the number one martial artist in DC. And the reason why i said Shiva, Cass and Dragon scoop the NORMAL cream is because KK has progressed so far that he is no longer anything close to normal.

There is a reason why even Wizard has martial competitions being between Shang Chi and Richard Dragon or Shiva. Because having Shang Chi trying to fight DC's Karate Kid would lead to a win by KK in less than half a second.
KK is beyond anyone and everyone on the compiled list.

All right!!! The tournament has started!!!

..

Uh.. Its not the truth because they have never fought, so you don't have the hard facts that he has beaten him in the past to tell you if he will beat him. Thats the whole point of these threads. Express your opinion. Your opinion is that karate kid will win. Mine is that Batman will win. Get over it.

Sounds fair. Out of curiousity, what's that opinion based on?

What do you think. What would an opinion.. in a comic book versus forum... be based on? Use your noggin'. It helps.

Opinions are based on lots of things. It doesn't matter what the forum is. What's YOUR opinion based on? If you don't feel comfortable answering, I'll understand. But I'm curious. This isn't a trick question or anything, lol.

Well, first it was because I felt that Batman was more resourceful, and seems to have something... extra. I think he'd find some flaw in KK, and use that to defeat him. Right now though, I am not voting, because I feel my opinion is being biased, because right now, I have a burning desire to vote against KK, because you two were giving me attitude.

But do please vote eventually

You're hypersensitive. I haven't given you a lick of attitude. I was just curious, and now I know. Case closed. Try some breathing exercises...

First of all, I wasn't talking about you. Second of all I apologize for being moody, but I'm rushing my 4th dress, because the pleats are all f*cked up, and I still have one more dress to do.

ok no problem!

Just have fun with this, I didn't mean for it to cause problems

Yeah, I can definitely tell no matter how clear I tried to be some fans still just don't get the rules of this tournament.

Sorry dude but make up your mind because you keep saying you will add this and that.

For pure hand to hand combat ability Mantis beats them all. She could hurt Thor without using superpowers based on her martial arts abilities.