All Of Star Trek Vs All Of Star Wars

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



darthdumbledore
Right lets cut all the rubbish and get down to what everyone wants to know which one would win remember all of the star wars galaxy against all of the star trek galaxy (INCLUDING BORG) excluding Q for those who know him COME ON LET THE BATTLE BEGIN

adamrubin
star wars will win they have the force

darthdumbledore
but in space Star trek would outnumber them and The force could do nothing to the Borg could it

Mist
star wars has lightsabers.

star trek has flimsy photon balsters or whatever...

OB1-adobe
Star wars also has the death star, star trek has photon torpedos

DCLXVI
Star Wars has the Force, and that would work on the Borg. What the f**k?

Fishy
Star Wars without any doubt, their ships don't get destroyed as easily... Their fleets are more organised and more focused on conquering then on scouting.. Then there is the force the Jedi the Sith not to mention the Death Star. Besides the Death star in the movies can only be destroyed by sending small fighters, which i have never seen in Star Trek and the second one only by a ground attack... Star Trek doesn't have real ground battles.

But we could just all be saying this because most of us Like Star Wars a lot more then Star Trek and those Star Trek guys could probably figure out a few reasons why Star Trek would win...

SnakeEyes
Star Wars would win

mephistodesigns
The borg can't do crap to the Jedi, this thread says ALL of Star Wars vs ALL of Star Trek, so that means we get all the PT Jedi. The PT jedi can work borg because the borg are still organic enough to make waves in the force, so the Jedi can still sense their movements before they happen. And again, since its ALL of Star Wars, we (the star wars geeks who are obviously the commanders in all this right? wink ) could just send in Sidious, Vader, Maul, Dooku, and General Grievous. GG and Vader'll show them punks what a real cyborg can do. Maul will have a pile of 'em in pieces in minutes, and Dooku and Sidious will just start crushing their chest cavities one by one. Bit of lightening here and there...no prob. Then Luke flys in and blows that gay ass Death Star rip off of a core ship they have and they'll all just die!

Star Wars owns their asses, especially their ships in star battles. Ya know why? Because in Star Trek, every time they get fired on, they spend 20 minutes debating whether or not to fire back, by then a single Imperial Star Destroyer can incinerate their biggest ship (which, when I last checked, was about a thrid the size of one Star Destroyer).

A trekkie once posed me this question and wanted a serious answer, so, as you can probably tell, i've thought about this before.

pr1983
Ship to ship, Star Trek easily, they have more advanced weapons, ships and shields...

Ground Troops Star Wars takes it (Jedi are too strong)...

I say star trek, they can nuke any planet from orbit... i dont think any jedi can stop a few hundred torpedoes...

mephistodesigns
so can the death star... bye bye every planet in the star trek universe!

jackstain
star trek is like watching paint dry.

pr1983
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
so can the death star... bye bye every planet in the star trek universe!

the death star isnt a large, highly mobile fleet...

Darth Destroyer
Yeah but the Empire is so bow down to the might of the empire!

jackstain
i concur! like that? my pr1983 impression! bwa !

but i do agree.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by pr1983
the death star isnt a large, highly mobile fleet...

why am i even listening to you, you have friggin' CYCLOPS as your avatar... wink

mephistodesigns
and whats to stop jedi from boarding a starfleet vessel and anhilating its crew? Wouldn't even need jedi's, Tarrful and a wookiee squad could handle those whiney ass book worms any day.

"Uhhhh, captain, my arms seem to have been apparently REMOVED from my person by a large hairy species of humanoid."--any star trek officer.

"Well, get me a sample of its hair as soon as you can so we can analize this predicament. perhaps we can find a way to reason with it".--any star trek captain.

"Sir, I appear to be passing out from blood loss. Perhaps with a little effort...no sir, I am most definetly going to pass out now."

"deck officer, send a team down to assess the situation and perhaps we can gain more insight into this apparently violent species."

Wtih that, the Wookiees storm in, officers and cadets alike get their arms torn from their sockets and are beaten to a final death with their own dead limbs.

C'mon man, Star Wars has bigger ships, cooler aliens with more gadgets than a thousand Q's (the Bond ones), bad ass bounty hunters, wookiees, Sith (which could single handedly wipe their @$$es with the Star Trek universe IMO), Jedi (again, tough to kill), MUCH larger battle ships that brim with hard hitting weapons, the Death Star, Assassin Droids, Black Sun, the Force which gives them insight into the outcome of battles before they happen, allowing them to alter their own futures. Star Trek CAN'T win. And do you know why? Its more realistic, Star Wars is mythological, and (in your best Morranis Lord Helmet voice) myth's will always triumph because realistic is dumb!

tpaquin
Originally posted by pr1983
the death star isnt a large, highly mobile fleet... It's large. (size of a small moon)It's highly mobile. (It made it all the way to Yavin in about as much time as the "Fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy."wink It's not a fleet. I guess you got me there.

mephistodesigns
does it really need to be one? look what it did to the rebel fleet in ROTJ...mince meat mofos! And its does have a fleet, the Imperial Navy led by none other than the EXECUTOR. And since a regular Star Destroyer is already three times the size of star trek's largest ship, the Executor should have no trouble dealing with their stuffy brood!

Darth_Janus
I can't believe anyone thought the Trekkies could win a space battle. Here's any Star Trek episode...

"Captain, we've been hit one. Shields are at 18%."

"Prepare to fire on my mark..."

Eight minutes later.

"Captain, the small saucerlike freighter has successfully avoided our volley of little red starlike torpedoes. What now?"

"Set coordinates for 'Way the hell away from here'"

Roll credits.

jackstain
lmao

pr1983
Please disregard this post

tpaquin
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
does it really need to be one? look what it did to the rebel fleet in ROTJ...mince meat mofos! And its does have a fleet, the Imperial Navy led by none other than the EXECUTOR. And since a regular Star Destroyer is already three times the size of star trek's largest ship, the Executor should have no trouble dealing with their stuffy brood! Actually, the :not a fleet" part was supposed to be sarcasm.

Naga Sadow
nah, no way ST would win. Mandalorians themself would own the Federation. not considering the huge fleets the republic and the sith had durin The Golden Age of the Sith.


COMPLETE AND TOTAL OWNAGE IT WOULD BE, YES

tpaquin
the sheer quanitiy of history of the Star Wars world would overwhelm the Star Trek. We're talking 10,000 years of Jedi, sith, and star pilots. How could a three-hundred year old enterprise defeat that?

Delfedd
Star wars wins on this thread because3 its a star wars thread.

mephistodesigns
HELL YEAH!!! laughing

Force Adept
Pfft, Star Wars would win, easily. Ion cannons to take out sheilds, a sun crusher, death stars, it's just not even a fair fight. Vader could force choke any captain that tried to "hail" him. Not to mention, Star Wars has every-single-force-user-ever-mentioned in books, cause EU is Star Wars too. There's just too many reasons why Star Wars would kick ass.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna throw up, this thread has made me sick no expression

Darth_Janus
Here's a copy of Trekkie Chump Monthly. Mop up after yourself, please.

Emperorís Bones
Okay, Star Trek has for a super weapon a simple little torpedo . The Empire has...

Death Star - Blows Up planets
Sun Crusher - Blows up star systems
Eclispe Class Star Destroyer - Blows up planets
World Devastator - Eat planets
Galaxy Gun- Blows up planets

Plus a massive fleet
Standard Imperial MK II Star Desotyer - 1.6 Km
Super Class Star Destroyer - 7 km
Eclispe Class Star Destroyer - 18 Km

That's just the Imps, the New Republic plus the Corprate Sector, Hapans, Chiss, and last but not least. Civilians

In Star Trek, the Federation, Romulans, Klingons, etc don't let there people travel around the galaxy in private vehicals. It's all government owned. Star Trek is nothing more than a communist sci-fi.

Starwars would win hand down... The damn civilian owned ships are faster than the best military vessels Star Trek has to offer. It takes the Millennium Falcon two days to go from one end of the galaxy to the other. It takes the Federation's USS Voyager Seven Years to make the same trip.

Nuff said

Force Adept
Here's a better question, why are there two threads about this, posted by the same person, like 3 minutes apart?

Darth_Janus
To stir up debate and then leave.

Julie
do you really have to ask silly ques like this here....I mean here in the star wars section....

Batman316
Originally posted by darthdumbledore
Right lets cut all the rubbish and get down to what everyone wants to know which one would win remember all of the star wars galaxy against all of the star trek galaxy (INCLUDING BORG) excluding Q for those who know him COME ON LET THE BATTLE BEGIN


seems a little foolish posing a question and then excluding the most powerful race in the Star Trek Universe?

How much would Q change the balance.....

Darth_Janus
Q would be about the only shot the ST world would have. It should be Q versus all of SW. And even then, I'd still give SW the win. Q's powers aren't defined enough to make them strong enough to conquer a whole galaxy. And even if that were the case, it's apparently not in their nature since they are bored all the time and have nothing better to do.

Lord Banshee
Borg Cube would definitely own a star destroyer

Darth_Janus
In what? A game of chicken?

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Lord Banshee
Borg Cube would definitely own a star destroyer

I already covered how to kill that thing. And in a even simpilar way than my previous one... Death Star. BLAM!!! no moe cube sucka!

jackstain
the borg cube is the stupidest concept/thing ive ever heard

TRSundown
I am new here... Happend onto this site by chance, so I thought I would post my two cents here...

I am a big fan of both Star Wars and Star Trek and have always laughed at these kinds of debates. You really can't compare. They are two totally different types of technology...

Phasers vs. Turbo Lasers
- In Star Trek when they run into ships that have lasers they are never a threat against the Shields of the Star Trek Universe.

Photon/Quantum vs Proton Torpedos
- The destructive power of the Star Trek torpedos has always shown to be greater than that of the SW Universe.

Speed: The Falcon is the fastest ship in the galaxy... .5 past light speed
In Star Trek, warp 1 is light speed... warp nine... no comparison.

Star Wars star fighters, X-wings, A-wings, Ties... vs. Runabouts, Delta Flyers... It really comes down to the weapons again. They are all very versital and manuverable.

Capital Ships... Star Trek really does not have anything that can compare... Maybe a Borg Cube...

Star Treks HUGE advantage... TRANSPORTERS. Here is why...
The Borg board a Star Destroyer or any other ship and begin converting the crew... the Borg personal shields protect them from blaster fire... Yes I know any Sith or Jedi can cut them down but there are not Sith on every ship... ALSO... if you read the ST book Kobioshi Maru you will learn of a deadly tactic used by Scotty to obliterate ship after ship in this "no win senerio" test. Use the transporters to beam matter and anti matter into the same space causing a massive exposion. Use this tactic against SW ships... you could beam this massive bomb directly into the heart of a Star Destroyer.

The Force vs. ST Telepaths... Both sides have people that can manipulate their surroundings using their minds... I personally think that the Jedi/Sith Force users rock and would eventually dominate the ST telepaths but who knows...

I dont boast to support either side of this debate but it looks like there are no ST supporters in here so I thought I would put up a little defense on the ST side.

Basically its a no win argument. You could say that either side could win...

Fishy
You completly forget about this nice little weapon called the Death Star.

Maybe the Star Trek ships are more powerful but if the two faced then SW would have the Death Star and it would be populated with powerful force users, nobody could take that thing and it would blow up every ST has...

Not to mention SW has people that play tennis with stars for fun... There is just no way you can say this will go either way. I'm all in favour of a good debate, but there can't be one here.. The force alone is enough... Not to mention the pure size of the SW fleets... Sorry dude but I would still say the same thing if this was an ST forum...

SW can not lose

TRSundown
I dont think the Star Destroyer would be able to target the ST ships due to their manuverability. I am sure some would get destroyed... but eventually the Death Star would fall to a massive barrage of quantum torpedos or phaser cannons...

You also cant mix up timelines. By the time the death star came to be there were only four known force users... Emperor, Vader, Yoda, and good ol Ben.

Plus look at the DS9 series... the fleets they used against the Dominon were huge. One fleet was hundreds of ships, ONE fleet. Throw in the Klingons, Romulans, Dominon, Borg, Kazons, and all the rest and now you have thousands.

Okay, you want to talk planet/system killers - GENESIS Torpedo. ST has planet killers too.

People also keep bringing up the Jedi/Sith. Thats a big part of the SW univers and depending on the era there could be thousands or just a few... The ST universe has its mentally skilled people as well. How many times did Kirk get stuck on a planet because a force of pure energy willed him there... How many times did Q screw things up for Picard. There are plenty examples of forces in the ST universe that would give a great challenge to the Jedi/Sith.

The sheer size of the SW ships really does not make much of a difference either. In "First Contact" it took just a few ships to take out the Borg Cube... a gang bang like that could easily handle a Star Destroyer or bigger.

But again your comparing apples and oranges. Do we even know if a turbo laser or Ion canon can hurt a ST ships shields? Do we know if a phaser can penetrate the armor plating of a Star Destroyer?

Someone should start a think tank and develop an RPG SW vs ST and actually do a technology comparison and write out all the stats... It would be interesting to see.

Fishy
All of Star Wars... All of it, history present and future... So yes i can very well bring all those guys in and I will. The Death star with those guys can not be conquered...

Also your forgetting Luke stick out tongue

And yes i know we are, but seeing as we don't have a lot to go at we can either assume the Star Trek weapons are incredibly powerful or that their ships are incredibly weak.

And landing on a planet and managing to get off, can hardly compare to throwing a star at your enemy...

Otaku_Sith
StarWars wil win,period.

TRSundown
Wow... I know this is a SW forum but this is a pretty closed minded debate... "I win cause I said so" does not cut it...

and you can have the death star and all the jedi... unless you are going to throw in time trave. They never existed at the same time so you cant say that I have the death star and all the jedi. Does not work like that.

As far as the technology goes... you dont see Star Wars ships powered by artificial quantum singularities...

Or how about the Star Ship Pegasis with its phased cloakind device... just phase into the Death Star core and quantum torpedo the hell out of the reactor... then phase right out.

Otaku Sith... there is no "PERIOD" its not that cut and dry no matter how you look at it.

Fishy
The thread says ALL of.. ALL, its just all, meaning all the Jedi and all the Sith..

And yes its pretty easy to see this. A few people that can throw stars along with great generals greater troop size a space station that can destroy planets when ever it wants. Weapon plants that produce ships faster then you can inhale and exhale, oh and did i mention the people that throw stars at ships already?

mephistodesigns
TRS is also forgetting the very powerful ION Cannon, drop ST's sheilds, and then they die. And don't forget about the Yuzhaan Vong. They can drop shields and bore molten rock right into those ships. And besides TRS, go get the Star Trek encyclopedia and the Star Wars Guide to Vehicles and Vessels. An Imperial Star Destroyer is 3 times the size of the 1701-D...So I'm gonna say ST gets owned on ship to ship combat right there. And as Fishy just pointed out...it is ALL of Star Wars, do you have any idea what that means? THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF JEDI KNIGHTS! So there WOULD be many powerful force users available on every ship to handle your teleported boarding parties. And again, they have nothing for the Death Star. Oh wait, they have that circular borg ship that looks remarkably LIKE the Death Star...but it has crap for weaponry in comparisson. Dude, there's just no way, not with ALL of Star Wars. And a team of Jedi on a ship, doing battle meditation so that they'd know what ST was going to do before they do...c'mon! What are they gonna do to that?

shaber
How about those unsettling subspace beings?

Fishy
Originally posted by shaber
How about those unsettling subspace beings?

Do they throw stars at ships? If not they are not really important

mephistodesigns
sorry to double post, but I just remembered something else TRS needs to understand: The lasers in SW are not the same lasers in the ST universe, the STU lasers are like what we have on earth, highly focused light beams. In SW, they aren't actualy beams of light. Its highly explosive Tibanna gas (which is what Lando was mining, that's what they were talking about when they were "gas mining"wink which is joined with a bolt of "energy" which isn't defined as far as its origins. But the Turbo Lasers of Star Wars would very much penetrate the shields of Star Trek ships, because they aren't beams of light.

TRSundown
Okay okay... but just like the SW video games... people use the Jedi/Sith like B**ches. Dont get me wrong... The Force is totally awesome... and so are the Jedi... but if you are going to use ALL of the 10000 years of Jedi against 300 years of ST then I am just going to get Q to snap his fingers and you all dissappear. Snap! your dead. No force powers can stop that. You gonna throw a star at me... okay Snap! no more star.

We can go back and forth and back and forth but you people just dont hear me...

We got the Death Star... Okay so you take all three Death Stars... Now I have three ST ships equiped with phased cloaking devices and have a hoard of ST telepaths onboard each one to block any detecting Jedi senses... Now I just phased into your core and blew it up with quantum torpedos... Since I am phased, the explosion does not affect me.

I can banter all day with you guys... Everything you throw at me I can find a way to counter it... cause unless the creators of Star Wars and the creators of Star Trek sit down and write out a detailed comparison of technologies and mental powers there is just no way to say who would win. Who knows... Maybe a phaser is so powerful compaired to SW technology that it can cut right through a Star Destroyer. Who cares how big the ships are. Hell the Falcon destroyed a Star Destoryer so I dont think you can say that just cause SW ships are bigger they would dominate ST ships.

nolan lepaz
Star Treks Borg Cube is bad *ss but think about those ships the enterprise is truly crap star wars has STAR DESTROYERS they are made to destroy fellts of enemy ships. Light Saber would destroy phasers. HK-47 would crush Dr. Bones Mccoy. Yoda vs. Spock how well can speack hold his own against yoda. Worf probably would kick the SH*T out of Chewbacca but Vader would force choke every body on the enterprize

TRSundown
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
sorry to double post, but I just remembered something else TRS needs to understand: The lasers in SW are not the same lasers in the ST universe, the STU lasers are like what we have on earth, highly focused light beams. In SW, they aren't actualy beams of light. Its highly explosive Tibanna gas (which is what Lando was mining, that's what they were talking about when they were "gas mining"wink which is joined with a bolt of "energy" which isn't defined as far as its origins. But the Turbo Lasers of Star Wars would very much penetrate the shields of Star Trek ships, because they aren't beams of light.

So the SW lasers are really just projected gas... Well if ST shields can deflect solid matter, radiation, gasses from nebulas, charged plasma, and all different sorts of energy weapons I think they can handle a little charged gas.

mephistodesigns
its still a hardened beam of energy, the gas just helps its detonation on impact. And who's to say phasers can even penetrate SW shields or hulls?

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by TRSundown
Okay okay... but just like the SW video games... people use the Jedi/Sith like B**ches. Dont get me wrong... The Force is totally awesome... and so are the Jedi... but if you are going to use ALL of the 10000 years of Jedi against 300 years of ST then I am just going to get Q to snap his fingers and you all dissappear. Snap! your dead. No force powers can stop that. You gonna throw a star at me... okay Snap! no more star.

We can go back and forth and back and forth but you people just dont hear me...

We got the Death Star... Okay so you take all three Death Stars... Now I have three ST ships equiped with phased cloaking devices and have a hoard of ST telepaths onboard each one to block any detecting Jedi senses... Now I just phased into your core and blew it up with quantum torpedos... Since I am phased, the explosion does not affect me.

I can banter all day with you guys... Everything you throw at me I can find a way to counter it... cause unless the creators of Star Wars and the creators of Star Trek sit down and write out a detailed comparison of technologies and mental powers there is just no way to say who would win. Who knows... Maybe a phaser is so powerful compaired to SW technology that it can cut right through a Star Destroyer. Who cares how big the ships are. Hell the Falcon destroyed a Star Destoryer so I dont think you can say that just cause SW ships are bigger they would dominate ST ships.

Okay but the thread already established NO Q. So ST is still royally owned. I'm not saying its fair or anything, but those are the rules of the thread: ALL the millenia of SW vs. all 300 yrs of ST. So yeah, ST is gonna lose based on that. And telepathy is igsignificant in comparisson to the Force. Telepathy comes from one persons brain, the Force is in everything.

And this is just supposed to be fun, obviously there aren't enough real details to compare. Its all made up. That being said: millenia of jedi and tech vs 300 years? c'mon. ST is soooo dead.

TRSundown
Well okay... if you put it that way... Dude Picard is so screwed. No more pretty girls for Kirk. Your right. Under the guidelines established for this thread ST would have their @$$ handed to them... but then again. Why balance the odds in favor of SW unless you are afraid of loosing. And your right... it is for fun...

There is an episode of ST where Worf keeps skipping between alternate parallel universes. Then all the parallel universes start pooring into one. One of the Enterprises that pops in comes from a universe that is dominated by the Borg and they are like the last ship left... I bet somewhere in all those ships sat an Enterprise that came from the SW universe described here and they to were having their butts handed to them.

I guess its game over ST.

mephistodesigns
we could make it more fair: 300 years of star wars starting with books just past the NJO and then back 300 years. SW would then have ALL the Yuzhann Vong (who would have a field day killing borg since they hate technology and almost wiped out the SW galaxy on their own because all the weaponry and ships are built to COUNTER technology. So that's an ass whuppin' waitin' to happen. Then SW would have all of the Jedi Knights from the NJO, the PT and before that by two hundred years. That would also include Yoda, Mace Windu, Luke, Vader, Sidious, Maul and Dooku. Then the entire Rebel forces, Imperial Forces, New Repbulic Forces, Old Republic Forces, Separatist Forces (with all those millions of droids). So this would include two death stars, a prototype death star, the sun crusher which can go around shutting down whole star systems in ST by simply flying through them, Tons of HUGE capital star ships like the Executor and the Eclipse (the Emperor's MASSIVE personal star destroyer). Then there are all the bounty hunters guilds, mercenaries, even in just 300 years, the SWU STILL has enough to take out the entire run of ST. The SWU is just too dense for ST to handle. There to many things for ST to shoot at and too many things shooting at them. They're out numbered, out gunned, out "spiritualized" even when you evenly give them both 300 yrs of history.

TRSundown
Okay... 300 Years vs 300 Years... I could argu this but there really is no point. No one here is going to say that ST technology can take on SW technology, Quantum Singularities or not... No one is going to say that the mental powers of the races in ST can match the Force... Its a biased argument despite my attempts at making the diferent universes more level. And I just dont have the time to type out the LONG argument that I could put up.

Someone really needs to level the playing field and design an RPG about this...

Some friends of mine and I started an online RPG where a fleet from the Robotech universe folded space into the SW universe. Neither side would ever let their technology fall to the other side. Everyone wanted to have the best stuff... So it really does no good to do these kind of comparisons no matter how fun they are.

star22
THe funny thing is that I really like both, though I like Star Wars better. I have to say that with the jedi, Star Wars will win.

TRSundown
I know that Force users rock... I actually like SW better than ST... but I think everyone is forgetting all the different aliens in the ST universe... Forget Q cause like I said before... "snap" your dead. I cant remember how many times the Enterprise, DS9, or Voyager encountered super human beings with super powers... How about the Prophets, the Paw Wraths...

I just cant see how it would be such a cut and dry victory for the SW universe. Sure... Maybe SW would win in the long run but it would be one hell of a fight. And thats a big maybe.

Fishy
Originally posted by TRSundown
I know that Force users rock... I actually like SW better than ST... but I think everyone is forgetting all the different aliens in the ST universe... Forget Q cause like I said before... "snap" your dead. I cant remember how many times the Enterprise, DS9, or Voyager encountered super human beings with super powers... How about the Prophets, the Paw Wraths...

I just cant see how it would be such a cut and dry victory for the SW universe. Sure... Maybe SW would win in the long run but it would be one hell of a fight. And thats a big maybe.

Well like you said Q is to powerful and could just snap his fingers and it would be over...

The rest ST has to offer however just can not throw stars at their enemy's, not to mention that they don't have a weapon that can blow up capitol ships easily nor destroy planets with just one shot.

TRSundown
Okay... I keep hearing this but I have no idea what you guys are talking about... Who can throw stars?

And yes the ST universe does have ships that can destroy capital ships and planets... ST TOS the Planted Eater or Killer... Thats just one example. And like I said before... the Genesis Torpedo = Planet and System killer... and how about the missile that is used to destroy a sun in Star Trek Generations.

Fishy
Naga Sadow for one...

So basically you have ships that can do the same thing as the SW Jedi and Sith can? And you have some SW weapons that can do the same thing Jedi and Sith can do... I'm still going to go with SW

TRSundown
Just thought of something that I would like to add....

In ROTJ a small, tiny little A-Wing crashed and took out an entire SUPER Star Destroyer. If thats all it takes... thats not saying much for SW technology.

Just a thought.

mephistodesigns
Jeeez...that was after they lost their deflector shield after a LOT of sustained fighting. Again...Sith Lords like Naga Sadow throw stars. In the Jedi Academy trilogy, Luke and like 7 other jedi used the force to push an ENTIRE IMPERIAL FLEET out of the star system where Yavin 4 is. So you can talk technology all day, all the tech of the ST universe can't do a g**d*** thing to Jedi or Sith. Its just not gonna happen. SO the Jedi/Sith COMBINED with the military might of the SWU is a serious fight. I agree, it would be a helluva fight, but ST can't handle sustained fighting because they just don't have the numbers that SW does. and they don't have a thing to handle Jedi/Sith/lightsabers/the force except Q. Or the Yuzhaan Vong for that matter, who, again, are all organic and their organic tech is designed to destroy technology. I still haven't heard your answer for them. The SWU BARELY got out of that one alive so how the hell is ST gonna handle them? their weapons go right through shields, they've harnesed a black hole like power to suck anything blasted at them into some sort of void so they don't take damage. They'd own ST on their own.

exanda kane
I thought the SW vs LOTR thread was a bad idea . . .
I think this is a good idea, we can take the piss out of Star Trek!

All of the ST movies I've seen are rubbish and lacking in imagination. The 60's series had nostalga but lacked, umm . . . everything else.
The characters in ST are not paricuarly deep. ST also lacks that fantastical quality that SW has, such as Jedi etc.

TRSundown
Originally posted by exanda kane
I thought the SW vs LOTR thread was a bad idea . . .
I think this is a good idea, we can take the piss out of Star Trek!

All of the ST movies I've seen are rubbish and lacking in imagination. The 60's series had nostalga but lacked, umm . . . everything else.
The characters in ST are not paricuarly deep. ST also lacks that fantastical quality that SW has, such as Jedi etc.

Okay... you want to talk about lack of imagination... how about Lucas... all he did was make a Sci-Fi version of LOTR. Where is the originality in that.

Besides... we are not talking about how good the movies are, or the acting, or nostalga...

And what are you talking about the characters in ST are not very deep? Have you even watched ST... but anyways...

you can take the piss out of ST... just catch it in a cup as they wizz all over you. j/k

This debate is about as futile as the Kobyashi Maru.

jedi2187
Originally posted by TRSundown
Just thought of something that I would like to add....

In ROTJ a small, tiny little A-Wing crashed and took out an entire SUPER Star Destroyer. If thats all it takes... thats not saying much for SW technology.

Just a thought.

The forward shields were brought down, which made the bridge vunerable, and hence the A-wing slammed into the bridge and the whole thing crashed and burned like "Enterprise's" ratings.

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by TRSundown
Okay... you want to talk about lack of imagination... how about Lucas... all he did was make a Sci-Fi version of LOTR. Where is the originality in that.

Besides... we are not talking about how good the movies are, or the acting, or nostalga...

And what are you talking about the characters in ST are not very deep? Have you even watched ST... but anyways...

you can take the piss out of ST... just catch it in a cup as they wizz all over you. j/k

This debate is about as futile as the Kobyashi Maru.

ST characters can only be so deep after about a thousand episidoes. Then, after they've raised the dead eighty times, gone back in time or forward ninety times, had a relationship with every senior officer of the opposite sex and sometimes of no sex a hundred times, and never come any closer to actually discovering or conquering anything, the characters tend to lose their shape and persona.

At least there is physical as well as emotional changes and development in the SW series.

jackstain
STAR TREK F*CKING SUCKS, THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO END THIS LAME AS$ THREAD.

Happy Dance

TRSundown
Sooo once the shields are down it would take a single photon or quantum torpedo to take down a SUPER star destroyer... Hummm....

Ahh this has gotten way beyond the dumb point. Dont know why I keep bothering.

Hey Q... Snap your fingers would ya!...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
SNAP!

Darth_Janus
Star Trek = Space Soap Opera.

Star Wars = Science Fantasy Epic.

Star Wars wins.

jackstain
Q snap ur fingers, wuld ya?

ok....-snaps-....palpatine appears behind him and bakes him....lightning style.

good trick.

jedi2187
Originally posted by TRSundown
Sooo once the shields are down it would take a single photon or quantum torpedo to take down a SUPER star destroyer... Hummm....

Ahh this has gotten way beyond the dumb point. Dont know why I keep bothering.

I guess our dear friend missed this thread....
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t335035.html
and this one
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t335026.html
and this
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t333671.html
and this
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t333972.html
and the zinger:
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

Oh, and my take on Q?

Q vs. Palpatine!

Q appears in the Supreme Chancellor's office. Palpatine brandishes a weapon and brushes the ice off a cold six-pack of whup-ass, when suddenly the Q continuum appear in the same room also, declaring that John DeLancie's ego now eclipses the sun and once again must be stripped of all powers until he has learned humility.
Q is buck naked and looking for cover. Palpatine shatters the window, Force-pushes Q outside and ends up as street pizza somewhere on level 12B of Coruscants' basement floor. Owned! Happy Dance

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by jedi2187
I guess our dear friend missed this thread....
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t335035.html
and this one
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t335026.html
and this
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t333671.html
and this
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t333972.html
and the zinger:
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

Oh, and my take on Q?

Q vs. Palpatine!

Q appears in the Supreme Chancellor's office. Palpatine brandishes a weapon and brushes the ice off a cold six-pack of whup-ass, when suddenly the Q continuum appear in the same room also, declaring that John DeLancie's ego now eclipses the sun and once again must be stripped of all powers until he has learned humility.
Q is buck naked and looking for cover. Palpatine shatters the window, Force-pushes Q outside and ends up as street pizza somewhere on level 12B of Coruscants' basement floor. Owned! Happy Dance

Kick ass post man! lmfao!

jackstain
lmao

Darth_Janus
I've been reading this whole site. ST takes a beating and a half. Man, they suck.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by TRSundown
Okay... you want to talk about lack of imagination... how about Lucas... all he did was make a Sci-Fi version of LOTR. Where is the originality in that.

Besides... we are not talking about how good the movies are, or the acting, or nostalga...

And what are you talking about the characters in ST are not very deep? Have you even watched ST... but anyways...

you can take the piss out of ST... just catch it in a cup as they wizz all over you. j/k

This debate is about as futile as the Kobyashi Maru.


Dude, you don't even know what you're talking about. All TOLKIEN did was make a myth like any other old myth, he researched mythology (mainly the Bible) and created a myth for England...something he felt British Culture was sorely lacking in. He then used these building blocks and themes, which run through ALL mythology and created the LOTR. Which is awesome, this isn't a knock to them. Lucas then did the same thing, but based his stuff more on WWII, The Roman Empire, and Joseph Campbell's analyzations of mythology (which brought even newer ideas about the building blocks of myths, which all came out after LOTR) like Hero With a Thousand Faces, the Hero's Journey, and a couple others. They both did the same thing, they did what ALL writers do...they take the elements from myths (the first stories exploring and paralleling mankind's struggle) and used them to make new myths. The thing is though, Lucas made a much more MODERN myth for MODERN society. It was the first major 20th Century Myth outside of comic books and cowboy/gangster novels. So before you go knocking Lucas, you'd better know the back story on WHOM you're comparing him to before you open yer yap.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by TRSundown
Sooo once the shields are down it would take a single photon or quantum torpedo to take down a SUPER star destroyer... Hummm....

You missed my point, the ST ships wouldn't cause enough damage to drop a SS's shields before it dropped the ST ship. Just a thought....

You're so arrogant about all this and you clearly don't even know what you're talking about. You still don't have an answer for the Yuzhaan Vong. So I'll take that as an admission of defeat. once you answer that and quit "accidentally" miss quoting me to make your point seem more valid, I will entertain your silly theories.

So how bout it hot shot? Who in ST can take the entire Yuzhaan Vong race?

I don't hear nuttin'...

mephistodesigns
"Star Trek has a large following. But Star Wars is easily the most well known movie of all time.

But anyways, I've watched both. (Yes, sue me) And I could tell you easily that the Milleium Falcon would win. For one thing, the Enterprise's shields never lasted one episode, so I have no faith in them whatsoever. The ship had hundreds of people, but most had no control over the battle capability of the Enterprise, and in any case, it requires setting of coordinates, lots of BS, etc. to actually fire rounds. I don't think ithad the targetting or tracking capabilities of a person in the Falcon's turrets simply because it's not made to combat very manueverable ships. About the only advantage the Enterprise has is the tractor beam, and I can't see them catching the Falcon unless someone was really smooth behind the controls.

Meanwhile, the Falcon is a small target, nimble as hell, manned by human gunners and armed with various weapons of military grade... and is piloted by a crack pilot who's defied death more times than anyone onboard the Enterprise.

There, I think I made my argument."--Darth Janus

Well I think that about sums it up. I forgot about the fact that the targeting in ST is always so slow, I remember now, they'd tell 'em to fire and like a minute later it would go off. Seems a bit like playin' Battle Ship to me...

exanda kane
I can't believe there is resistance for ST ina SW forum. ST really does suck and it inspired some of the worst series of all time; Babalon thingy, Andromeda and others.

Possibly the reason why SW wins is that it was copied from myths because there is a reason people remember and record myths.

Man, Star Trek is completely under Star Wars and covered in the mouldering poxes of nerds.

jedi2187
Also, Star Trek REALLY needs to take a break! Back in the 70's and 80's, it was usually an event (with the exception of ST V) to see a ST film. Now when they make one, it's just to give Brent Spiner some work.
And don't get me started on the shows...

mephistodesigns
laughing I know, after Next Generation I couldn't bare to watch, and I could only stand to watch NG off and on...

Scott Bacula? Don't know who approved that one but it certainly proves that property is Dead! Meanwhile Star Wars continues to rake in the dough because its much freakin' cooler!

Darth_Janus
I've been quoted. Score. I can die fulfilled.

sneeky_ninja
the only vehicle you would need from starwars would be the sun crusher. it would just launch on of its torpedos and vwala no more solar system and no more federation. i mean com one in startrek firstcontact, did you not notice how many ships it took to take down a borg cube, just imagin them trying to tak on a stardestroyer.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I've been quoted. Score. I can die fulfilled.

glad I could help.... laughing out loud

Darth_Janus
*Bows. Commits the ritual Sith suicide.*

Jedi7115
Star Trek wins easily. The Borg go back in time and wipe out the 1st remains of life in he Star Wars Universe . Not Even the D&D Created VONG would have a chance. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE !

Darth_Janus
Dude, even by ST standards, everytime you go back or forth in time, you don't actually do it in the same universe. You slide into another parallel one and change the path there. So what you're saying is ST couldn't win the fight and the Borg would chicken out and skip dimensions, taking an easier fight which they'd probably still botch.

jedi2187
Originally posted by Jedi7115
Star Trek wins easily. The Borg go back in time and wipe out the 1st remains of life in he Star Wars Universe . Not Even the D&D Created VONG would have a chance. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE !

The Borg win? Mall-walkers can outrun them, they're not impervious to bullets, and one visit from the Sun Crusher and they'll lose their wits quicker than Paris Hilton lost her cell phone.
Hey, howsabout assimilating Anakin Skyw-- whoops! Too late. He's more machine now than man, and being a card carrying member of the Sith, I'm sure he'll have no guilt snapping all the necks of every single Borg he comes across. Sure, the Borg can adapt to energy weapons, but tell me how they can protect themselves from the Force?

mephistodesigns
can't believe someone with "Jedi" in their name would support ST...

Anyway...what is "D&D created" Vong mean? the Vong are in the NJO...but since you clearly don't even know what you're talking about, I'll just leave you be.

jedi2187
I couldn't stand watching Star Trek: First Contact.
Saw it in a theater with my mates, and after watching an hour of it, I thought:
"Hey, this is a knock-off of Aliens."

SithKiller
Hey like if they threw a star core or shot a deathstar blast at the enterprise wouldnt it just bounce off the corbomite shield...lol.....And Q is impotent omnipotent...something like that way more power than any force user....hate it fer star wars but more I think bout it more Star Wars loses..... confused These are the times its best not to think...no better to drink...drunk yes

Fishy
Dude Q isn't in...

And a blast that would destroy a planet would not deflect on some stupid energy shield, the core of a star sure as hell wouldn't... ST doesn't stand a chance

SithKiller
What do you mean Q isnt in it?...says All of Star Trek...keyword ALL...well if Q isnt in it...then Star Wars might have a chance.....beer...But why isnt Q in it...??????

TRSundown

Fishy
Originally posted by SithKiller
What do you mean Q isnt in it?...says All of Star Trek...keyword ALL...well if Q isnt in it...then Star Wars might have a chance.....beer...But why isnt Q in it...??????

Redad the first post

SithKiller
oops well damn Im going to bed then...lol...apparently time if I missed that

jedi2187
wow, even Forbes is getting into it!

mosh16137
dude starwars all the way!!!

Darth Elmo
Star Wars, because of these three things.

1. Force
2. Death Star
3. Imperial Fleet
_________________________

Star Trek Would Loose because of these three things

1. The Federation Ship Design {They aren't designed to fight, that well}
2. The Romulan Klingon Conflict
3. {What are the odds of the borg fighting with all of those spices???}

TRSundown
Originally posted by Darth Elmo
Star Wars, because of these three things.

1. Force
2. Death Star
3. Imperial Fleet
_________________________

Star Trek Would Loose because of these three things

1. The Federation Ship Design {They aren't designed to fight, that well}
2. The Romulan Klingon Conflict
3. {What are the odds of the borg fighting with all of those spices???}

Gaad... I just cant stay away...

See now your being hypothetical... so now I can say... how do you know that the Empire will fight with the Rebel Alliance... How do we know that the Empire wont join sides with the Romulans and the Dominion and take on the Federation, Klingon Empire, and the Rebel Alliance...

And with that said, I can surely say that the Federation and the Rebel Alliance / New Republic would not go to war. They would eventually establish communications and make peace, share technology and make a huge technological ship that would rule all...

Darth_Janus
Well, since this is in an EU thread, the Empire itself would be a small part of the militaristic force in SW. Also included would be the ancient Sith empire, the Vong, the Old Republic and New, ancient Jedi order and all those to present... I mean, ST is outnumbered AND outclassed.

Darth Elmo
BRAVO!!! Darth_Janus

Darth_Janus
But one last hurrah for the ST fans...

TRSundown
You know the more we talk about this the more I see such a drastic difference between the two universes and the more I really believe that a comparison like this is really just futile.

Janus you are right... The SW universe is like the size of our universe and the ST universe is like the size of our solar system. So you are right... Universe against universe SW would win just on sheer size. It would be like all billion people of China storming the US... or actually just Texas.

I dont believe however that technology wise ST is inferiour.

Has anyone seen the CGI video that has ST, SW, Babylon 5, and Battlestar Galactica in this massive orgy of battle. Its good VS bad... not SW vs ST... Now that is a battle worth watching.

SithKiller
That was a sweet picture Janus....lol.....I like both of them but I have to stay on Star Wars side if I can...lol....But I do have to say the art of firing while cloaked(ST) turns the tables a bit....I remember from the I think it was rebel alliance game....The empire had a cloak system but they could not fire while cloaked?....Im trying hard to find reasons for ST to stand a chance without Q but its hard...lol...defending the underdog here...so what is the deal with the Empires cloak? was there ever in any of the comics any improvement or did they just abandon cloaking after that game?...cause if they gave up how can they match ST they cannot shoot something they cant lock on or see..ST would outfit all ships with this technology no peace treatys to prevent it......ALL the pilots would have to be jedi.....there arent that many......so till someone tells me SW has the cloaking going on score one for ST? Or wait a jedi might capture a cloaking ship that can fire while cloaked then adapt SW ships to using that technology....And I was thinking too what if a jedi or sith tried to do a mind trick on a borg...then the whole collective would adapt and learn to use the force thats scary a bunch of force using borg....they could sure use some force assisted speed when moving around...lol

SithKiller
I think I just confused myself with that last post .....wine

TRSundown
LOL... I never thought about that though... how would the force work on the collective... IN FACT... and I have to type this in caps...

IF THE YUSHONG VONG (SP) CAN NOT BE AFFECTED BY THE FORCE BECAUSE THEY ARE FROM ANOTHER GALAXY THEN WHY WOULD THE STAR TREK UNIVERSE BE AFFECTED BY THE FORCE? Logic would dictate that if the force does not affect beings from outside the SW galaxy like the Yushong Vong then why would it have any affect on the ST universe...

SOOOOOOO.... I think we can eliminate the Force as an effective weapon... Just like the Vong, the Jedi / Sith would not be able to sense the cloaked ST ships... Humm....

Mr Parker
Originally posted by OB1-adobe
Star wars also has the death star, star trek has photon torpedos

yeah thats why I got to go with Star Wars.

SithKiller
But the the borg can combine the cubes to be superhuge....a few of those could take out the deathstar....and there is only one deathstar at a time? yes no?thousands maybe millions of cubes......tables are starting to turn on SW again damn it...gotta think...as now I can defend SW since they are becoming underdog

SithKiller
Jabba the hut could fart and blow them all away hows that?

Fishy
Hows this?

From which one has a shield that prevents it from being destroyed just fire at the cubs and destroy them? Then some Sith come along and throw stars at them

SithKiller
or they could just put Jabba in the middle of them and light his fart....that would be worse than the core of a star.....Id rather be destoyed by a star core...lol

SithKiller
Say DumbleDore started this thread I say its time he declared a winner!
Either that or we could ask Nefarus to write us a short story showing how they sent jabba through the rift with a sparkler hanging out his ass to pass gas and blow up the entire ST universe....but hey wait a minute Earth is in the Star Trek universe......that might not be so cool....not unless we could get Earth through the rift first and be in the SW universe...I could deal with that

TRSundown
Hey Sithkiller... just a note... I got bagged on pretty bad for doing double posts. Everyone kept yelling "USE THE EDIT BUTTON."

Just wanted to warn you before they throw Jabba Farts at you. lol.

SithKiller
yeah I get carried away sometimes...lol and forget to edit....wheelchair drunk but sometimes I double post on purpose as combinging what im saying wouldnt go together well.....but your right I could have combined at least my first double post on this page...oops
but please no Jabba farts!...lol

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by TRSundown
LOL... I never thought about that though... how would the force work on the collective... IN FACT... and I have to type this in caps...

IF THE YUSHONG VONG (SP) CAN NOT BE AFFECTED BY THE FORCE BECAUSE THEY ARE FROM ANOTHER GALAXY THEN WHY WOULD THE STAR TREK UNIVERSE BE AFFECTED BY THE FORCE? Logic would dictate that if the force does not affect beings from outside the SW galaxy like the Yushong Vong then why would it have any affect on the ST universe...

SOOOOOOO.... I think we can eliminate the Force as an effective weapon... Just like the Vong, the Jedi / Sith would not be able to sense the cloaked ST ships... Humm....

The Vong were a shitty add-on the SW universe, since they have organic superiority which is sci fi hogwash. And the Force exists in all living things by defination and around them. The peoples of the SW universe would be a source to draw on all by themselves. If a Jedi can use the Force on something like a lifeless rock or a droid, they can use it to effectively maim an ST character.

Now, I dislike the Vong for numerous reason. One is that they can't be affected by the Force. This serves only to make them a threat, not because it makes sense. Also, organic technology just blows. If the Death Star can blow a planet up, and a Stardestroyer can glass one by itself, the Vong's ships shouldn't have a damn chance, period. Unless they import their own physics too. Seriously, the Vong undermine so much I actually am surprised they haven't been overturned even as quasi-canon.

Next, St isn't technologically more advanced. They're inferior. Why? It's simple- technology that is thousands of years in the making in regards to space travel versus what? Half a millenia tops? Time is against ST. Their ships are not very combat oriented, and ST has shit for ground troops. If it came to boarding parties, ST would be pwned so bad it would make the reruns wince in pain.

And as for not being able to sense cloaked enemies, there are ways around that. A blanketed shield generator like the kind over Nal Hutta could effectively keep any cloaked enemies at bay, and unconventional things like chaff launchers could scramble the ST ships' sensors. Add on to the fact that SW ships in general are larger and more numerous than St ships, have more firepower and a greater firing range and rate, and it's checkmate. No getting around it. ST loses any conventional battle, unless one falls on the Trekkie logic of Q wins all..

Bill Gates
The Borg alone could easily take out the sw universe. They have better ships, better defenses, and could easily take out the death star. They just have so much technology that the empire doesnt stand a chance.

SithKiller
Yes Q...lol....but could he even survive a suprise Jabba flatulence blast?....LMAO...he may not want to be alive after that...

Bill Gates
assimilating a death star would be very easy for the borg. All they would have to do is take out the shield generater on the planet by firing on it with a few plasma torpedoes from space while the other borg cubes destroy and assimilate the defending ships. Of course the borg would lose some cubes but seeing how fast the death stars fires, not that many. Anyway since they are very intelligent, the borg would probably attack the death star from the back instead of the front, which is actually common sense(dont know why in the last star wars the rebels attacked it from the front ). Anyway, with the shields down, the borg would just beam millions of borg drones aboard. Then by injecting nanoprobes into one of the control panels, all the death stars' systems will start to be takin over by the borg. Of course theyd just have to assimilate everyone onboard, which would be pretty easy. Then with the death star under borg control, the borg will have all the information they need from that one death star to build bigger and better death stars and add all of the technology that theyve takin from the thousands of species theyve assimilated. Then theyll add that technology from the death star to their cubes. So youll probably be fighting mini death star cubes.

SithKiller
You know what I think it really is Bill Gates...Janus this calls for a picture! ...jus messin Bill

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by Bill Gates
assimilating a death star would be very easy for the borg. All they would have to do is take out the shield generater on the planet by firing on it with a few plasma torpedoes from space while the other borg cubes destroy and assimilate the defending ships. Of course the borg would lose some cubes but seeing how fast the death stars fires, not that many. Anyway since they are very intelligent, the borg would probably attack the death star from the back instead of the front, which is actually common sense(dont know why in the last star wars the rebels attacked it from the front ). Anyway, with the shields down, the borg would just beam millions of borg drones aboard. Then by injecting nanoprobes into one of the control panels, all the death stars' systems will start to be takin over by the borg. Of course theyd just have to assimilate everyone onboard, which would be pretty easy. Then with the death star under borg control, the borg will have all the information they need from that one death star to build bigger and better death stars and add all of the technology that theyve takin from the thousands of species theyve assimilated. Then theyll add that technology from the death star to their cubes. So youll probably be fighting mini death star cubes.

You know what I think? I think Trekkies use big words like assimilate and transcorder and latinum because it makes their wang harder than Japanese arithmetic. But seriously, The Death Star, or the second version (Which fires a hell of a lot faster) isn't something you just sneak up on in your little grey Rubic cube thingy. It would have an Imperial fleet larger than the line of bullshit you just spewed defending it from most if not all angles (allowing for firing room) and if you think the Borg can break through that line before being poofed you're insane. And as for attacking the shield, it wouldn't make a damn difference. Transporters and sensors which the Borg Cube and all of ST relies upon so heavily are easily affected by many things. Imperial troops could simply jettison trash and use chaff to disrupt the sensors. You know what the means? Good luck trying to beam anywhere. And you're also under the assumption that you can transport a Borg through the meters of duracrete and lead shielding that is doubtless on the Death Star which makes it impervious to enemy fire from without. Maybe they can go to subwarp speeds and try a Lando, but I think the Borg are fekked. And as for mass assimilation, I just WANNA see the Borg try that on Sidious and Vader. That will be a slaughterfest. And let's say, for the sake of petty argument, that the Borg could beam aboard and overpower easily millions of crewmembers before they are either destroyed to a drone or the self destruct is activated.... how are they gonna find time to turn around before the rest of the entire SW universe shows up and blows the ball to hell? Oh wait... you didn't think about that. Sorry, Bill. The Trekkies go home without the blood honor of Klingon Warriors this round.

Darth_Janus
The young Bill Gates looking gay picture wasn't enough for me. It's time to lay the smack down. Star Trek = pwned.

Draykid
So true. Soo true. I actually joined just because of this thread. XD And I read it all just to find that it's already done with. XD

SithKiller
oh no I love sw but to say a thread like this is done with....I thought this thread would last forever....lol.....I love debates...I love democracy....ahhh nah screw it SW wins till I become bored with episode III thread...lol

jedi2187

SithKiller
borg queen would have been more appealing if her breast size was like quadrupaled...lol....like DDD GGG something like that ..and organic...mechanical breasts just wouldnt work....then noone would notice anything else and she could weave her evil ways all night long and no one would care...actually they would love every minute of it...lmao

TRSundown
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
The Vong were a shitty add-on the SW universe, since they have organic superiority which is sci fi hogwash. And the Force exists in all living things by defination and around them. The peoples of the SW universe would be a source to draw on all by themselves. If a Jedi can use the Force on something like a lifeless rock or a droid, they can use it to effectively maim an ST character.

Now, I dislike the Vong for numerous reason. One is that they can't be affected by the Force. This serves only to make them a threat, not because it makes sense. Also, organic technology just blows. If the Death Star can blow a planet up, and a Stardestroyer can glass one by itself, the Vong's ships shouldn't have a damn chance, period. Unless they import their own physics too. Seriously, the Vong undermine so much I actually am surprised they haven't been overturned even as quasi-canon.

Next, St isn't technologically more advanced. They're inferior. Why? It's simple- technology that is thousands of years in the making in regards to space travel versus what? Half a millenia tops? Time is against ST. Their ships are not very combat oriented, and ST has shit for ground troops. If it came to boarding parties, ST would be pwned so bad it would make the reruns wince in pain.

And as for not being able to sense cloaked enemies, there are ways around that. A blanketed shield generator like the kind over Nal Hutta could effectively keep any cloaked enemies at bay, and unconventional things like chaff launchers could scramble the ST ships' sensors. Add on to the fact that SW ships in general are larger and more numerous than St ships, have more firepower and a greater firing range and rate, and it's checkmate. No getting around it. ST loses any conventional battle, unless one falls on the Trekkie logic of Q wins all..

Well as far as the SW stuff being more powerfull, I cant agree with that just because the person who wrote the RPG stats had a sever case of penis envy... the ST universe borders on a more realistic view at technology. Now you say that the SW univers has thousands of years of technology development then tell me this... if the Millinium Falcon is one of the fastest ships in the galaxy and only goes .5 past light speed then how does that beat out warp drive? Well, it doesn't.

A table for your reference...

Warp Factor c Velocity
Warp 1 1c 299 792.458 km per second
Warp 2 10.079c 3 021 608.18 km per second
Warp 3 38.941c 11 674 218.1 km per second
Warp 4 101.59c 30 455 915.8 km per second
Warp 5 213.75c 64 080 637.9 km per second
Warp 6 392.50c 117 668 539.8 km per second
Warp 7 656.13c 196 702 825.5 km per second
Warp 8 1024c 306 987 477.0 km per second
Warp 9 1516.4c 454 605 283.3 km per second
Warp 9.2 1649c 494 357 763.2 km per second
Warp 9.6 1909c 572 303 802.3 km per second
Warp 9.9 3053c 915 266 374.3 km per second
Warp 9.9753 6000c 1 798 754 748.0 km per second
Warp 9.99 7912c 2 371 957 927.7 km per second
Warp 9.9999 199516c 59 813 392 050.3 km per second

YODAisdaBEST
how can u even compare star wars with star treck theres no contest star wars kicks ass star treck sucks

TRSundown
Originally posted by YODAisdaBEST
how can u even compare star wars with star treck theres no contest star wars kicks ass star treck sucks

Thats a real scientific and logical response. It would be really nice if at least some of the people in here could have a more logic oriented debate.

Fishy
Okay how about this..

History... 300 years against thousands?
Technology evolves with history, SW logically has a more efficient military force
That travel thing is crap. People manage to travel across the entire galaxy which has tens of thousands of systems in less then a day. From the core worlds to the outer rim doesn't take that long
Star Wars actually has large scale battle's, meaning that they are ready for it.
And then there is the force

TRSundown
Originally posted by Fishy
Okay how about this..

History... 300 years against thousands?
Technology evolves with history, SW logically has a more efficient military force
That travel thing is crap. People manage to travel across the entire galaxy which has tens of thousands of systems in less then a day. From the core worlds to the outer rim doesn't take that long
Star Wars actually has large scale battle's, meaning that they are ready for it.
And then there is the force

You have obviously not watched the Dominion Wars...

And how can you say that the travel thing is crap... if you are going to sit there and say that the SW RPG stats are proof that SW rules then how can you just dismiss my travel argument. If SW can travel across the galaxy in a day then its either a REALLY small galaxy or its a hole in your argument.

Grand Moff Gav
the problem with star treck is that its all morrals and lets remember the stardestroyer is about 50 times bigger than the enterprise

TRSundown
Check out www.spacebattles.com

Its got some cool CGI battles of all the Sci Fi universes... Not to scale or to power... but its pretty cool to watch.

Grand Moff Gav
cool

Fishy
Originally posted by TRSundown
You have obviously not watched the Dominion Wars...

And how can you say that the travel thing is crap... if you are going to sit there and say that the SW RPG stats are proof that SW rules then how can you just dismiss my travel argument. If SW can travel across the galaxy in a day then its either a REALLY small galaxy or its a hole in your argument.

I never defended any RPG stats..

And a really small Galaxy's?

"If you sign this treaty i'm confident a few thousand other star systems will join our cause" - Dooku

A few thousand... And they can live on every planet... That means a lot of people and a shit load of space

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by TRSundown
Well as far as the SW stuff being more powerfull, I cant agree with that just because the person who wrote the RPG stats had a sever case of penis envy... the ST universe borders on a more realistic view at technology. Now you say that the SW univers has thousands of years of technology development then tell me this... if the Millinium Falcon is one of the fastest ships in the galaxy and only goes .5 past light speed then how does that beat out warp drive? Well, it doesn't.

A table for your reference...

Warp Factor c Velocity
Warp 1 1c 299 792.458 km per second
Warp 2 10.079c 3 021 608.18 km per second
Warp 3 38.941c 11 674 218.1 km per second
Warp 4 101.59c 30 455 915.8 km per second
Warp 5 213.75c 64 080 637.9 km per second
Warp 6 392.50c 117 668 539.8 km per second
Warp 7 656.13c 196 702 825.5 km per second
Warp 8 1024c 306 987 477.0 km per second
Warp 9 1516.4c 454 605 283.3 km per second
Warp 9.2 1649c 494 357 763.2 km per second
Warp 9.6 1909c 572 303 802.3 km per second
Warp 9.9 3053c 915 266 374.3 km per second
Warp 9.9753 6000c 1 798 754 748.0 km per second
Warp 9.99 7912c 2 371 957 927.7 km per second
Warp 9.9999 199516c 59 813 392 050.3 km per second

I don't get you at all. I don't think you're a bad guy or even an idiot, I don't. But you aren't making a convincing argument but you still keep trying.

For one thing, NEITHER ST nor SW has realistic speeds, powers, or anything. Scientifically most of it would be impossible and the rest would be ridiculously difficult to even work. Now, RPG Stats are not being introduced here as an argument. Your post, in which you quoted my post, had no relevance to.... my post. You did not acknowledge any of my arguments, much less refute them. You just went off on a tangent about RPG stats, which came out of nowhere so much as I can tell.

Now, convince me and others how ST has more realistic technology? I expect it. I always hear that argument and I can't find a damn thing to say it makes sense. Star Trek has replicators which work on a level of science I haven't seen explained. They have powerful sensors that can't get through at least one obstacle per episode. They operate on a crystal power source. They have teleporters that work without a recepticle on the other end, and have no malfunctions what so ever. If anything, Star Trek is a horrible mesh of space opera meets "I can't stand violence and realism" fantasy. There isn't one real thing about St from the stupid weapons and uniforms to the bland rooms and no poverty.

TRSundown
Look... I can do the research if thats what you want... I read three articles about NASA's work on warp style technology, I have SEEN the development of a Positronic Matrix for satellite technolgy. There are thousands of articles out there that can give you scientific proof of the realism of Star Trek technology... thats not the realistic I am talking about... but forget all that...

The thing that pisses me off about this thread and why I keep coming back is because no one can put up a good argument. Besides the FACT that the two different technologies CANT be compaired because its ALL speculation and OPINION, the SW people here all they say is SW would win, OR ST sucks so SW would win.

I brought up the RPG stats cause that is the only defense that has been used to say that SW weapons and tech are more powerful than ST. So it did actually have relevence to your post in the context of this thread.

I didnt engage any of your arguments cause I have talked over most of them...

Please dont think me an idiot... I am a HUGE SW fan but I happen to like ST too... The thing about ST is while Lucas sat back and sucked the market dry from his movies and left the SW universe stagnant as far as the film industry goes, the ST universe continued to engage people... I grew up in the SW erra but I grew up WITH ST since it was on TV all the time... So I have to try to defend it.

Like I said before in this thread, some friends of mine and I started an online RPG where we joined the SW universe with the Robotech universe. I played a SW character and over the six months or so that the game went on I was the only one willing to let my ship be dissabled or damaged by the opposite side... NO ONE was willing to give any concessions to the other sides technology... eventually the game died cause no one wanted to loose.

This whole argument is a great exercise in futility... Not cause either side sucks, but because I am trying to argure for ST in a SW forum, and I am the only one willing to admit that my side has its own drawbacks or weaknesses...

I can go titt for tatt and argue against anything you can throw at me. I can find something in the ST universe to counter it... even the star throwing jedi... but no one here wants to listen to that. So I just go on puting up arguments that no one will concider... for example, this is the second or third time I have brough up the speed of SW vs ST and NO ONE can argue back... If the Mellineum Falcon is one of the fastest ships in the galaxy and goes .5 past light speed, how are they faster than ST? Just because they go halfway across the galaxy in a day... Thats an inconcistency not an argument.

Darth_Janus
Examples of ST unrealism...


plasma shotgun
Episode: ENT 001 - Broken Bow


Energy-discharge weapon. Oklahoma farmer Moore used one to shoot the Klingon Klaang upon their unexpected encounter.
replicator
Episode: TNG 165 - Sins of the Father


Devices derived from transporter technology to dematerialize matter and then reconstitute it in another form.
Replicators, in use since the early 24th century, are most commonly used as food dispensers aboard Federation starships. The menu is only limited by the programming, as opposed to the days of carrying natural or reconstituted foodstuffs with delivery by special turbolifts or transporters.

Generally replicated food and "natural" food taste the same, though some people claim to be able to detect a difference. For instance, Captain Picard kept real caviar stored for special occasions since he felt replicated caviar was inferior to the real thing.

transporter
Episode: TOS 001 - The Cage


Transportation device that converts objects or persons to energy, sends that energy to the destination, and reconstitutes the objects/persons back into matter.

Transporters cannot beam objects through deflector shields.

I just had to get those technological realistic points out of the way. Those are from the official site technology databank, btw.

Now, on to your point about speed, which is apparently a big issue for you. This is taken from the excerpt on the SW official site for Hyperdrive.

"Travel between star systems would be impossible were it not for the development of the revolutionary hyperdrive propulsion system. The term hyperdrive refers to the engine and interrelated systems that propel a starship through the alternate dimension of hyperspace. In hyperspace, there is no limit to how fast a starship can travel, and thus interstellar distances can be traversed in mere minutes.
Before entering hyperspace, a pilot must supply exact coordinates derived by the ship's navicomputer. Without precise calculations, a ship may collide with a body in hyperspace with catastrophic results.

Although largely reliable, constant modifications to a hyperdrive can render it untrustworthy. Han Solo's Millennium Falcon had an extremely recalcitrant hyperdrive which often failed when needed the most."

Now, about the Point five issue...

"Modern hyperdrives are classified by their speeds, with the lower the class number, the faster the drive. The Millennium Falcon has an extremely fast hyperdrive, rated at class 0.5."

Taken word for word. Now, from the official ST site on Warpdrive...

"The main propulsion system for most starships that is capable of faster-than-light travel.
The core of the warp drive uses to control the annihilation of matter and antimatter. This controlled explosion is what generates the tremendous power required to warp space and travel faster than light.

On Earth, warp drive was invented in 2063 by noted scientist Zefram Cochrane."

Also on the warp drive....

"Warp factor is the unit used to measure faster-than-light travel, where 'c' is equal to the speed of light. Each increase of one warp is computed geometrically. Warp ten is theorized to be infinite and with current technology, unobtainable. "

Now, what else did you need brought up?

TRSundown
Okay you know what... GFY. If you don't know what that means then to bad... Why are you personally attacking me dude. Ist a F****** debate on SW vs ST... I'm not suck on points, I'm not hung up on anything. I just want explanations and until your last post NO ONE HAD BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN OR DEFEND. Sooooo... Okay cool now I have my explanation.

As for the unrealism... come on. don't get into that cause it can be argued both ways... SW, the force... come on how realistic is that. Hyperdrive... again, realism. Yes there are things in the ST universe that are unrealistic or not fully explained... but its FICTION. of course there are going to be... the core of the ST technology though can be scientifically explained, just not advanced enough to implement.

Okay... you want this to be fair... take the first 300 years of SW technology from the time they had faster than light travel and take ST technology and then throw them together. Now who would win... well I hate to say it but SW does not have a first 300 years cause Lucas didn't write it... Thats the biggest difference between SW and ST... ST is a complete evolution of technology... SW is just a prick in time and you don't have any idea about its origins. But lets not get off on that...

Sooooo since you cant compare the 300 or so years of ST technology to the 10000 years or so of SW technology (cause it just don't work) I declare this debate a mistrial and everyone can go home now.

Again, I am ducking out. I will probably come back if people keep this going. And again, I AM NOT ADMITTING DEFEAT. I an just ending this futile exercise.

So peace, and see ya on the flip side.

Fishy
Ah, but the first 300 years with Hyperdrive have been explained...

Not by GL but this is an EU forum so that doesn't matter now does it?

The first ships able to travel at that speed for as far as I know come from the infinite empire, who have a factory that creates an unlimited amount of ships from a few resources at high speeds. The entire race that flew with it had a mastery over the force. They were fighters and thinkers and were indeed powerful and incredibly smart. They managed to take over every race they encountered. How much that is I'm not sure of but its a lot that is for sure.

They piloted through the force and they had to have an amazing amount of it in order to control the Star Forge and fly those ships two things that they could not do on a later date. Meaning that those guys had a great control of the force, knew how to fight and win, had amazing technology and were incredibly brilliant and they were with billions upon billions of them.

I am not giving anybody a chance against those guys. I don't care who you throw against them, no army is going to win. SW or ST army's will lose from them.

TRSundown
Okay... where is the info about the Infinite Empire... did they originate from the same galaxy as the Empire and Republic?

Now if we are going to talk about the entirity of the universes then I think ST could compare... the 300 years of technology that we have been talking about for ST is based on the Federation. If you want to talk about ALL the alien races and all their technology and all there history then I think we could have a fight.

Ugg... see I get drawn back in already...

If its not a Lucas sanctioned production, like a book or a game then I dont think you can count it as cannon. So where do I find out info about this Empire?

Fishy
It doesn't count as Cannon, well not the highest cannon anyway, but this is an EU section so that doesn't matter here..

And you were the one talking about the time that the Hyperdrive was first discovered...

However honestly I don't think we should even be debating this..

Look what is ST about? Travelling discovering... SW is about war fighting. Creating or destroying empires... SW simply has an advantage because of experience we can debate technology for century's but that won't do as any good..

If you still want info on the infinite empire however, try google or play Kotor

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by TRSundown
Okay you know what... GFY. If you don't know what that means then to bad... Why are you personally attacking me dude. Ist a F****** debate on SW vs ST... I'm not suck on points, I'm not hung up on anything. I just want explanations and until your last post NO ONE HAD BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN OR DEFEND. Sooooo... Okay cool now I have my explanation.

As for the unrealism... come on. don't get into that cause it can be argued both ways... SW, the force... come on how realistic is that. Hyperdrive... again, realism. Yes there are things in the ST universe that are unrealistic or not fully explained... but its FICTION. of course there are going to be... the core of the ST technology though can be scientifically explained, just not advanced enough to implement.

Okay... you want this to be fair... take the first 300 years of SW technology from the time they had faster than light travel and take ST technology and then throw them together. Now who would win... well I hate to say it but SW does not have a first 300 years cause Lucas didn't write it... Thats the biggest difference between SW and ST... ST is a complete evolution of technology... SW is just a prick in time and you don't have any idea about its origins. But lets not get off on that...

Sooooo since you cant compare the 300 or so years of ST technology to the 10000 years or so of SW technology (cause it just don't work) I declare this debate a mistrial and everyone can go home now.

Again, I am ducking out. I will probably come back if people keep this going. And again, I AM NOT ADMITTING DEFEAT. I an just ending this futile exercise.

So peace, and see ya on the flip side.

Seriously, you need to chill out. I wasn't attacking you, I was trying to relate to your points on some level. But it seems like you just want ST to be the winner or you want to take your ball and go home, calling the game off. Neither is the point of this discussion. I don't have a personal stake in this like you seem too, I'm just along for the ride. But I haven't seen any convincing arguments as to wy ST is superior to SW so far that hasn't been refuted.

Darth_Janus
And to recap on that point, I'm not feeling particularly hostile today, and I don't have any beef with you, so I hope we see eye to eye on that at least. Let's keep this civil... It IS fiction, we're not talking philosophy or anything.

Jedi_KnightAlly
To be fair.... ST is about exploration and discovery.... SW's everythings already discovered, so what happens? War! So i reckon St would lose.

SithKiller
without Q Star Trek loses I fear....cloaked ships & time travel are the only plus I can honestly think of for ST but that was covered in someone saying that time travel into past just creates an alternate verse so they win in one but not the one it started in? Something like that

Jedi_KnightAlly
Another point, its a star wars forum, so star wars automatically wins yes

SithKiller
not if Q was in it!

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>