Apocalypse vs Magneto

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unregisteredMAN
1 v 1, no prep time

Apoc and Magneto sitting at a bar. Magneto gets up, walks over to Apocalypse, and says "You are ugly as shit...and I just finished doing your mom."

GO!

dawsey28
Magneto and Apac in a bar?

Strange. Strange indeed.

dawsey28
BTW. This is a tough call. I want to say magneto. But A-Pac has a good chance of winning.

GalacticStorm
Magneto without a doubt. He's consistently called the most powerful mutant on the planet. He has incinerated apparently nigh invulnerable people with gesture when. He did this to two members of the neo. One who proved himself to be considerably stronger and more durable than rogue but he still got fried.

In AOA a mags with a 50% power reduction ripped apocalypse to shreds.

Apocalypse could take this with prep time but without it magneto would take this

Crimson Phoenix
Magneto. He's in a whole class of his own now thanks to his upgrade.

Wickerman
it's been done. Let's see:

1. When Apoc kidnaps The Twelve, Magnmeto is the one that needs to power up his machine. A weakened Master of Magnetism f***s Apoc's machine, basically screwing his plans

2. In Evo Magneto gets his ass handed to him by Apoc (although after Apoc enhances his strength even MORE than it was, i doubt he couldn't take down Mr. evil evil speeches)

3. In AoA Magneto f***s Apocalypse worse than a horny Dobbermann would a Chihuaua

~wickerman~

(quote from Evo when Magneto sets off to confront Apocalypse and pyro/colossus/sabertooth/gambit can't join him:

Pyro: "What do you mean we're not coming?"
Magneto: "This is between higher evolutionaries. And i guarantee you only one of us will survive"wink

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Magneto without a doubt. He's consistently called the most powerful mutant on the planet. He has incinerated apparently nigh invulnerable people with gesture when. He did this to two members of the neo. One who proved himself to be considerably stronger and more durable than rogue but he still got fried.

In AOA a mags with a 50% power reduction ripped apocalypse to shreds.

Apocalypse could take this with prep time but without it magneto would take this

First of all, in both cartoons they made Apocalypse much more pwoerful, now in X-Men: Legends II (game) Marvel say Apocalypse in near-omipotent mutant and most powerful, and Magneto o is defeated together with broterehood and X-Men in X-Men Legends II by Apocalypse. I mean if Magento is more pwoerful, why Marvel always allow they make Apocalypse more powerful everywhere (much more powerful in any other adaption of comic book, if Magneto is more pwoerful in comic, oh I know beaucse Apocalypse is more pwoerful), why? Becuse he is much more powerful. Magneto is not called most powerful, (Richard, God like Cable, Apcoaylpse, thy are all more pwoerful). If you ask Marvel, they will say Apocalypse is more pwoerful, without a doubt. GalacticStorm, the worst thing is, when you can't think with your own head.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Xplosive
First of all, in both cartoons they made Apocalypse much more pwoerful, now in X-Men: Legends II (game) Marvel say Apocalypse in near-omipotent mutant and most powerful, and Magneto o is defeated together with broterehood and X-Men in X-Men Legends II by Apocalypse. I mean if Magento is more pwoerful, why Marvel always allow they make Apocalypse more powerful everywhere (much more powerful in any other adaption of comic book, if Magneto is more pwoerful in comic, oh I know beaucse Apocalypse is more pwoerful), why? Becuse he is much more powerful. Magneto is not called most powerful, (Richard, God like Cable, Apcoaylpse, thy are all more pwoerful). If you ask Marvel, they will say Apocalypse is more pwoerful, without a doubt. GalacticStorm, the worst thing is, when you can't think with your own head.

I'm really sorry man, but between the spelling mistakes and randomnity of what you say, as hard as i try i can't understand what you're saying.

~wickerman~

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
I'm really sorry man, but between the spelling mistakes and randomnity of what you say, as hard as i try i can't understand what you're saying.

~wickerman~

The point is, in every adaption of X-Men (games, cartoons), Apocalypse is always presented as much more powerful than Magneto (much more dangerous threat, compeltely different) , I mean if Magneto is more powerful, why Marvel always allows Apocalypse to be more powerful everywhere, you know, beacuse he is also more powerful in comics.

Crimson Phoenix
Originally posted by Xplosive
The point is, in every adaption of X-Men (games, cartoons), Apocalypse is always presented as much more powerful than Magneto (much more dangerous threat, compeltely different) , I mean if Magneto is more powerful, why Marvel always allows Apocalypse to be more powerful everywhere, you know, beacuse he is also more powerful in comics.

I agree with you that apocalypse has always been presented as being more powerful (largely due to celestil tech), and normally, he would beat mags. But as I said earlier, current mags is in a league of his own now. He would rip Apocy to shreds now and send him through a wormhole

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
First of all, in both cartoons they made Apocalypse much more pwoerful, now in X-Men: Legends II (game) Marvel say Apocalypse in near-omipotent mutant and most powerful, and Magneto o is defeated together with broterehood and X-Men in X-Men Legends II by Apocalypse. I mean if Magento is more pwoerful, why Marvel always allow they make Apocalypse more powerful everywhere (much more powerful in any other adaption of comic book, if Magneto is more pwoerful in comic, oh I know beaucse Apocalypse is more pwoerful), why? Becuse he is much more powerful. Magneto is not called most powerful, (Richard, God like Cable, Apcoaylpse, thy are all more pwoerful). If you ask Marvel, they will say Apocalypse is more pwoerful, without a doubt. GalacticStorm, the worst thing is, when you can't think with your own head.

Xplosive this a friendly debate. Until now you have never attacked me personally on these forums we have even been on the same side on many occassions. I know you love apocalypse but that is no excuse. You will not win a war of words with me so dont do it again.

Moving on..

If you read marvel comics regularly for the amount of time i have you will know that Magneto before the arrival of Nate was always called 'perhaps the most powerful mutant on the planet'. That is not debatable that is fact.

Off the top of my head i can remember this being stated in the fatal attractions graphic novel after Magneto attacked the mansion.

Magneto is clearly more powerful than Apoc. This is a COMIC BOOK vs forum. We use COMICS to support our arguments. NOT cartoons, not computer games. In the comics Apocalypse is never portayed as having power on Magnetos level. Your ownly basis for saying apocalypse is stronger is from the cartoons (well EVO anyway cos Mags whupped Apocalypse in the old animated series LOL)

The cartoons while enjoyable portray the characters very inaccurately in comparison to the comics. Sometimes giving them extra powers or altering their power levels.

For example in EVO the cartoon youre taking as the gospel truth, Mystique changes into all manner of creature from wolves to birds etc.
It is a well known fact that comic book mystique can not do this. She can only take humanoid forms , she always retains the mass of her original form which is why she tends to take the form of someone similar to her own size. Plus she can not duplicate powers.

Yet this was all ignored for the cartoon. WHY? BECAUSE EVO WAS MADE FOR KIDS AND AS SUCH MANY OF THE CHARACTERS HAVE BEEN ALTERED TO MAKE THEM MORE ENJOYABLE FOR THAT AUDIENCE!!

That is why you cant use apocalypse from that cartoon in any debates on here. Especially against comic versions of characters.

Apocalypse was very powerful in EVO he is not anywhere else therefore i suggest you tape all them episodes and enjoy them cos it aint happening again.

Crimson Phoenix
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Xplosive this a friendly debate. Until now you have never attacked me personally on these forums we have even been on the same side on many occassions. I know you love apocalypse but that is no excuse. You will not win a war of words with me so dont do it again.

Moving on..

If you read marvel comics regularly for the amount of time i have you will know that Magneto before the arrival of Nate was always called 'perhaps the most powerful mutant on the planet'. That is not debatable that is fact.

Off the top of my head i can remember this being stated in the fatal attractions graphic novel after Magneto attacked the mansion.

Magneto is clearly more powerful than Apoc. This is a COMIC BOOK vs forum. We use COMICS to support our arguments. NOT cartoons, not computer games. In the comics Apocalypse is never portayed as having power on Magnetos level. Your ownly basis for saying apocalypse is stronger is from the cartoons (well EVO anyway cos Mags whupped Apocalypse in the old animated series LOL)

The cartoons while enjoyable portray the characters very inaccurately in comparison to the comics. Sometimes giving them extra powers or altering their power levels.

For example in EVO the cartoon youre taking as the gospel truth, Mystique changes into all manner of creature from wolves to birds etc.
It is a well known fact that comic book mystique can not do this. She can only take humanoid forms , she always retains the mass of her original form which is why she tends to take the form of someone similar to her own size. Plus she can not duplicate powers.

Yet this was all ignored for the cartoon. WHY? BECAUSE EVO WAS MADE FOR KIDS AND AS SUCH MANY OF THE CHARACTERS HAVE BEEN ALTERED TO MAKE THEM MORE ENJOYABLE FOR THAT AUDIENCE!!

That is why you cant use apocalypse from that cartoon in any debates on here. Especially against comic versions of characters.

Apocalypse was very powerful in EVO he is not anywhere else therefore i suggest you tape all them episodes and enjoy them cos it aint happening again.

yeah, what what he said

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Xplosive this a friendly debate. Until now you have never attacked me personally on these forums we have even been on the same side on many occassions. I know you love apocalypse but that is no excuse. You will not win a war of words with me so dont do it again.

Moving on..

If you read marvel comics regularly for the amount of time i have you will know that Magneto before the arrival of Nate was always called 'perhaps the most powerful mutant on the planet'. That is not debatable that is fact.

Off the top of my head i can remember this being stated in the fatal attractions graphic novel after Magneto attacked the mansion.

Magneto is clearly more powerful than Apoc. This is a COMIC BOOK vs forum. We use COMICS to support our arguments. NOT cartoons, not computer games. In the comics Apocalypse is never portayed as having power on Magnetos level. Your ownly basis for saying apocalypse is stronger is from the cartoons (well EVO anyway cos Mags whupped Apocalypse in the old animated series LOL)

The cartoons while enjoyable portray the characters very inaccurately in comparison to the comics. Sometimes giving them extra powers or altering their power levels.

For example in EVO the cartoon youre taking as the gospel truth, Mystique changes into all manner of creature from wolves to birds etc.
It is a well known fact that comic book mystique can not do this. She can only take humanoid forms , she always retains the mass of her original form which is why she tends to take the form of someone similar to her own size. Plus she can not duplicate powers.


Yet this was all ignored for the cartoon. WHY? BECAUSE EVO WAS MADE FOR KIDS AND AS SUCH MANY OF THE CHARACTERS HAVE BEEN ALTERED TO MAKE THEM MORE ENJOYABLE FOR THAT AUDIENCE!!

That is why you cant use apocalypse from that cartoon in any debates on here. Especially against comic versions of characters.

Apocalypse was very powerful in EVO he is not anywhere else therefore i suggest you tape all them episodes and enjoy them cos it aint happening again.

Actully I am always using comic Apocalypse (I know than in cartoon they altered his power level), but I am only saying that if Apocaylpse wouldn't be more powerful in comic than Magneto, than they wouldn't make him more powerful in adaptions (but they always did any adaption, and I bet they would also make him much more powerful in movie, why don't they make Cyclops more pwoerful than Magneto). Now comics generally are mostly made for kids also (just look at Spider-Man). Reading comic books for years, Magneto is called most powerul mutant (which isn't true at all), not being really most powerful, but just like that, beacuse he is most popular X-Men villain, he is their most legendary villain. Now I aplogize and I am sorry for you attacking you. And I said only about you not think with your own head is beacause when you said Magento was at 50% of their power and kill him, Apocalypse literally need 1% percent of his power to tear Magneto apart. In AoA when Magneto won, Apocalypse was chocking him and talking to him, allowing Magneto to realese everything that he has got, but you must realize that Apocalypse could easily tear his head off, if he wouldn't talk too much (writter s could easily do that, but they didn't, because this was situation that Magneto had to win no matter what, but if writers would do other way, you would be saying, look what Apocalypse did to Magneto, he teard his head off, you musn't be too one sided, think other way also.
And now Magneto got his upgrade (or maybe we will foun out that Magneto isn't really that powerful as someoe might think), I think Apocalypse himself will also get enormous upgrade, when someone gets an upgrade, other will aslo get and upgrade. Now if he is always presetnted everywhere being more powerful, only logicall is that Marvel has Apocalypse as more powerful being.

Wickerman
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Xplosive this a friendly debate. Until now you have never attacked me personally on these forums we have even been on the same side on many occassions. I know you love apocalypse but that is no excuse. You will not win a war of words with me so dont do it again.

Moving on..

If you read marvel comics regularly for the amount of time i have you will know that Magneto before the arrival of Nate was always called 'perhaps the most powerful mutant on the planet'. That is not debatable that is fact.

Off the top of my head i can remember this being stated in the fatal attractions graphic novel after Magneto attacked the mansion.

Magneto is clearly more powerful than Apoc. This is a COMIC BOOK vs forum. We use COMICS to support our arguments. NOT cartoons, not computer games. In the comics Apocalypse is never portayed as having power on Magnetos level. Your ownly basis for saying apocalypse is stronger is from the cartoons (well EVO anyway cos Mags whupped Apocalypse in the old animated series LOL)

The cartoons while enjoyable portray the characters very inaccurately in comparison to the comics. Sometimes giving them extra powers or altering their power levels.

For example in EVO the cartoon youre taking as the gospel truth, Mystique changes into all manner of creature from wolves to birds etc.
It is a well known fact that comic book mystique can not do this. She can only take humanoid forms , she always retains the mass of her original form which is why she tends to take the form of someone similar to her own size. Plus she can not duplicate powers.

Yet this was all ignored for the cartoon. WHY? BECAUSE EVO WAS MADE FOR KIDS AND AS SUCH MANY OF THE CHARACTERS HAVE BEEN ALTERED TO MAKE THEM MORE ENJOYABLE FOR THAT AUDIENCE!!

That is why you cant use apocalypse from that cartoon in any debates on here. Especially against comic versions of characters.

Apocalypse was very powerful in EVO he is not anywhere else therefore i suggest you tape all them episodes and enjoy them cos it aint happening again.

I mostly agree with you except for this:

1. In Evo they gave that much power to mystique mainly because she had become a favorite during the older toon series (not to mention the wave of fans after the x-men movie).

2. I'm not a kid and i love Evo because it's closer to reality, and it's right in your back yard, not in space with cosmic beings and such.....yet....

3. I'll bet you Apoc comes back in the next Evo series when Jean turns to phoenix, etc. etc.

~wickerman~

Mainstream
they didn't really beat Apoc in Evo...they got rid of him....hopefully they'll make an Adult Evo...no not with porn or anything...but with the Xmen characters grown up..it'll be a cross between the old series and Evo.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
I mostly agree with you except for this:

1. In Evo they gave that much power to mystique mainly because she had become a favorite during the older toon series (not to mention the wave of fans after the x-men movie).

2. I'm not a kid and i love Evo because it's closer to reality, and it's right in your back yard, not in space with cosmic beings and such.....yet....

3. I'll bet you Apoc comes back in the next Evo series when Jean turns to phoenix, etc. etc.

~wickerman~

There won't be any Evo series anymore.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Mainstream
they didn't really beat Apoc in Evo...they got rid of him....hopefully they'll make an Adult Evo...no not with porn or anything...but with the Xmen characters grown up..it'll be a cross between the old series and Evo.

I said before somewhere that's gonna happen. At the end of the last episode it shows scenes from the future Evo series with all of them grown up. Nightcrawler is a big buffed up dude (which kinda sorta sucks but i never really liked the Evo nightcrawler anyway), etc. etc.

Xavier: "I've seen the future in Apocalypse;s mind. Many challenges still await us but i saw some who had been our enemies become our friends (this is where it shows Magneto playing with the kids at the mansion in the danger room), and with a heavy heart i saw the dearest of friends become the most terrible of enemies (shows jean turning into Phoenix). I saw my X-men grow and change (shows X-men in the future all buffed up and cool and shows rogue flying down so i assume she has the powers), and i saw that some people never change (shows Avalanche, Toad, Pyro, Wanda and Pietro). But one thing is clear. That no matter what awaits us (shows dozens of sentinels with Nimrod in their middle flying) terrible or wonderous, the X-men will always be there ready. And of that, i am proud"

~wickerman~

Mainstream
they'll be another Xmen cartoon ...maybe not evo..but they'll be something...sooner or later.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Mainstream
they'll be another Xmen cartoon ...maybe not evo..but they'll be something...sooner or later.

yes, maybe not NAMED Evo, but in the same style. The characters basically looked the same (except cooler cause they were buffed up).

~wickerman~

Xplosive
And saying Magneto whopped Apocaylpse his ass in cartoon, again one sided (while Apocalypse was literelly more than 10 times more powerful and on much much higher level, like you said, altering his power level), while didn't do damage for 0,1 %, you know how much did Magneto whoop his ass, as Cyclops did in Come the Apocalypse, when he sent Apocaylpse little flying, but doing for 0.1%, so it's the same, but GalaticStorm, why don't you say, Cyclops whoped Apocalpse ass in cartoon. And Mystuiqe in Evo didn't dupliacte power, (Apocalypse boosted her power, then she was able to do that, and than she was more powerful than in comic).

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
I said before somewhere that's gonna happen. At the end of the last episode it shows scenes from the future Evo series with all of them grown up. Nightcrawler is a big buffed up dude (which kinda sorta sucks but i never really liked the Evo nightcrawler anyway), etc. etc.

Xavier: "I've seen the future in Apocalypse;s mind. Many challenges still await us but i saw some who had been our enemies become our friends (this is where it shows Magneto playing with the kids at the mansion in the danger room), and with a heavy heart i saw the dearest of friends become the most terrible of enemies (shows jean turning into Phoenix). I saw my X-men grow and change (shows X-men in the future all buffed up and cool and shows rogue flying down so i assume she has the powers), and i saw that some people never change (shows Avalanche, Toad, Pyro, Wanda and Pietro). But one thing is clear. That no matter what awaits us (shows dozens of sentinels with Nimrod in their middle flying) terrible or wonderous, the X-men will always be there ready. And of that, i am proud"

~wickerman~

That would happen, but they cancelled the show and there won't be any Evo series anymore. Maby there will be another X-Men cartoon (and Apocalypse will again be much more pwoewrful than Mags)
I wonder how will they make Apocalypse in Ultimate X-Men.

Mainstream
one the old toon....they had Apoc and Maggy almost equal...in Beyond good and evil part 3 or 4 one of them Mags was pushing Apoc back...it was basically a stalemate.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mainstream
one the old toon....they had Apoc and Maggy almost equal...in Beyond good and evil part 3 or 4 one of them Mags was pushing Apoc back...it was basically a stalemate.

It's not worht anymore to argue about toon differece between Apocaylpse and Magneto.
Here on page I foun complete stroy for X-Men cartoon and here is part form battle form Beyond good and evil:

The Horseman is ordered to strike down Magneto, and though he raises his scythe, it's the back of Apocalypse that is struck by the sharp, purple sting of unnatural energy! Stunned more by the betrayal than the attack, he's distracted enough for Magneto to use his powers to lift the immortal by his whatever metal he has on, and hurl him into a pair of pillars. Magneto claims to be no fool, and he never believed him, and doesn't seem to be alone in this distrust, as Death joins his side, soon demorphing into the female form of Mystique. Apocalypse bursts from the rubble, calling the pair traitors as he returns to his feet, and noting that they dared to attack their master, he morphs his hand into a futuristic cannon, and proceeds to fire upon them.
The mutants leap away from the destructive blasts, and immediately fire back, Mystique with her laser-pistol, and Magnus with his own magnetism waves, retorting that he calls no one master, especially one who would destroy the innocent along with the guilty. Apocalypse is unfazed by their attacks, telling the mutant to spare him his petty judgments, since they spring from a brain too meager to comprehend his reality. Growing in size, his eyes surging with energy, Apocalypse tells the pair to taste his power, as he releases a beam of laserforce from his chest. Magneto pours on his magnetic energy, struggling to hold back the stream of orange light, calling it poisonous. It overwhelms him considerably, and soon the pair of pressing powers ignite into an explosion, that, though it knocks Magnus backwards, gives him a chance to fire another swath of magnetism at Apocalypse. It's a lucky shot with a lot of power behind it, and though it doesn't harm the immortal one iota, the force is enough to slam him back against the brittle. (so that tell the differnce, no hurt for iota and Magneto was considerably overwhelemd, how can be stalemate, while Magento powers were consideralby overwhelmed by Apocalypse and how can be stalmeate, if he doesn't even have the power to hurt Apocaylpse one iota and Apocalypse can tear Magneto body apart with two fingers).

I know Apocalypse is different in cartoons, so because of that I think it should be enough about cartoons. Apocalypse is in both cartoon more than 10 times more pwoerful than Magneto (and Mysitqe was working with both Magneto and Apocalypse in cartoon, but it was Apoclaypse for whom she said d he is unstoppable and not for Magento, so she knows th difference)

Wickerman
Originally posted by Xplosive
It's not worht anymore to argue about toon differece between Apocaylpse and Magneto.
Here on page I foun complete stroy for X-Men cartoon and here is part form battle form Beyond good and evil:

The Horseman is ordered to strike down Magneto, and though he raises his scythe, it's the back of Apocalypse that is struck by the sharp, purple sting of unnatural energy! Stunned more by the betrayal than the attack, he's distracted enough for Magneto to use his powers to lift the immortal by his whatever metal he has on, and hurl him into a pair of pillars. Magneto claims to be no fool, and he never believed him, and doesn't seem to be alone in this distrust, as Death joins his side, soon demorphing into the female form of Mystique. Apocalypse bursts from the rubble, calling the pair traitors as he returns to his feet, and noting that they dared to attack their master, he morphs his hand into a futuristic cannon, and proceeds to fire upon them.
The mutants leap away from the destructive blasts, and immediately fire back, Mystique with her laser-pistol, and Magnus with his own magnetism waves, retorting that he calls no one master, especially one who would destroy the innocent along with the guilty. Apocalypse is unfazed by their attacks, telling the mutant to spare him his petty judgments, since they spring from a brain too meager to comprehend his reality. Growing in size, his eyes surging with energy, Apocalypse tells the pair to taste his power, as he releases a beam of laserforce from his chest. Magneto pours on his magnetic energy, struggling to hold back the stream of orange light, calling it poisonous. It overwhelms him considerably, and soon the pair of pressing powers ignite into an explosion, that, though it knocks Magnus backwards, gives him a chance to fire another swath of magnetism at Apocalypse. It's a lucky shot with a lot of power behind it, and though it doesn't harm the immortal one iota, the force is enough to slam him back against the brittle. (so that tell the differnce, no hurt for iota and Magneto was considerably overwhelemd, how can be stalemate, while Magento powers were consideralby overwhelmed by Apocalypse and how can be stalmeate, if he doesn't even have the power to hurt Apocaylpse one iota and Apocalypse can tear Magneto body apart with two fingers).

I know Apocalypse is different in cartoons, so because of that I think it should be enough about cartoons. Apocalypse is in both cartoon more than 10 times more pwoerful than Magneto (and Mysitqe was working with both Magneto and Apocalypse in cartoon, but it was Apoclaypse for whom she said d he is unstoppable and not for Magento, so she knows th difference)

that description is incredibly biased. I might as well just say "Magneto had been expecting that, having formulated a plan that when he got knocked he would unleash more magnetism at the idiot that kept talking and shooting without enough brainpower to calculate all odds like Magneto."

See? It's that easy. The result is all that matters. The interpretation is biased and inconclusive.

~wickerman~

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
that description is incredibly biased. I might as well just say "Magneto had been expecting that, having formulated a plan that when he got knocked he would unleash more magnetism at the idiot that kept talking and shooting without enough brainpower to calculate all odds like Magneto."

See? It's that easy. The result is all that matters. The interpretation is biased and inconclusive.

~wickerman~

Your opinion or quote is amazingly biased.
Anyhow in cartoon when they both shoot at eachothter (you could hear through Magneto voice, and he can't even say poisones to end, they did that, so that we could see he is considerably overwhelemd, cannot hold anymore not even close) and please don't mention cartoon Apocalypse anymore, cause I don't want to bother. As you see destrpction is extremely deteield and right.

Mainstream
one the old cartoon.

Archangel: we have to stop him..he's true evil..he has to be stopped.
(Cyclops slaps him)

Cyclops: get a hold of yourself Warren...it's foolish to fight Apocalypse..we can't even hurt him.

I changed it up a bit..but that basically what was said.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Xplosive
Your opinion or quote is amazingly biased.
Anyhow in cartoon when they both shoot at eachothter (you could hear through Magneto voice, and he can't even say poisones to end, they did that, so that we could see he is considerably overwhelemd, cannot hold anymore not even close) and please don't mention cartoon Apocalypse anymore, cause I don't want to bother. As you see destrpction is extremely deteield and right.

yes, that's my point. Narrating something is inconclusive. People can be as biased as they want. And that's what i was saying, that the description you quoted was a biased one. And i'm not the one that keeps mentioning cartoon Apocalypse, you brought that description on the topic, i just replied to the thing big grin

~wickerman~

O.D Geist
well i will put it like this the reason why apoc is show at a bigger treat most of the time is because he is trying to make the A.o.A on the other hand magneto is trying to do is make the world a safer place for him and his brotheren.

Xplosive i understand u are apoc fan and u have every right to stand up for your guy but when he is beat he is beat and well Mags is 1 of those guys who can beat him, now i am not going to say mags is going to wipe the floor with apoc, it will be a great battle an O.D battle to be remeber in all battle like in A.o.A but in the end Magneto was left standing as the victor and apoc was ripped in half as the loser.

Xplosive
Originally posted by O.D Geist


Xplosive i understand u are apoc fan and u have every right to stand up for your guy but when he is beat he is beat and well Mags is 1 of those guys who can beat him, now i am not going to say mags is going to wipe the floor with apoc, it will be a great battle an O.D battle to be remeber in all battle like in A.o.A but in the end Magneto was left standing as the victor and apoc was ripped in half as the loser.

True, in AOA Magento won, but like I said, you all musn't be too one sided, cause Apocalpse was chockinh and in real he could tear his head off in split secod, but writer decided not to, if Magento would be main villain in AOA, nad Apocalyose good guy, Apocalypse would kill him pretty easily and easier than Magneto killed him. It's matter of writing, but objectivily, Apocalypse should win.

Mainstream
yeah

GalacticStorm
Oh puh-lease. In 616 Magneto is tremendously more powerful than his AOA counterpart and Apocalypse is basically the same in both realities. Check out the AOA handbook to see for yourselves. 616 mags is also a lot more ruthless. If it came down to a battle between the main realities versions of these characters Apocalypse would get his as* fried. Every1 but fanboys can see that to be the case. I love Storm she is my fave character. She was at one point the most powerful Xman b4 all these newbies started coming along. However i dont go around saying she can take on Shaman Nate do i? NO!! Cos its ridiculous. The victor is quite obvious. I know that shes not the most powerful and she can be beateneven though i dont like it. So do u know what i do? I accept thats the case, continue buying Xmen and enjoy the comics she's featured in. I suggest you do the same.

Mainstream
If I didn't know better I'd think you think that Magneto would beat the regular Apocalypse

GalacticStorm
U got that right son!! wink

Mainstream
Apocalypse powers: can tap into energy from a hidden source, virtual immortal (though technically this isn't true) virtually invincible, can increase size, morph, shape change, project a virtual unlimited of power, fly, increase strength. the Alpha mutant both first black mutant and first mutant period. Evil given physical form. Has lost, but can not die (apparently) so his victor is only a matter of time.

Magneto: old white dude that can make force field, control metal and fly.
has fought Xmen more...so this means he has lost to them more. not immortal..could die by choking on a chicken bone at a local KFC.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
Apocalypse powers: can tap into energy from a hidden source, virtual immortal (though technically this isn't true) virtually invincible, can increase size, morph, shape change, project a virtual unlimited of power, fly, increase strength. the Alpha mutant both first black mutant and first mutant period. Evil given physical form. Has lost, but can not die (apparently) so his victor is only a matter of time.

Magneto: old white dude that can make force field, control metal and fly.
has fought Xmen more...so this means he has lost to them more. not immortal..could die by choking on a chicken bone at a local KFC.

Ohhh mainstream how biased are you. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Just look at how Mags' bio you've given compares to the Apoc one which is a load of BS btw which you know (or at least i hope you do).

Apocalypse is not virtually invincible. Mags ripped his as* to shreds like a KFC chicken wing.

He can not project virtually unlimited power. Please dont tell me you believe this. That line belongs in the bios of beings like Phoenix and Eternity. *sigh*

Evil given physical form? That was a line from the cartoon. Please dont take that literally. If he was evil in physical form he would be an abstract entity on the level of death and so on...

Mainstream
he can project energy dude..I didn't believe it either but I went to uncanny xmen.net and read up on it and this fight is between Apocalypse and Magneto not AoA Apocalypse and Hippy Magneto.

GalacticStorm
Please dont tell me you think that Mags power over magnetism only affords him control over metal. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Although Magneto's power is not on the level of the Silver Surfer in his prime, it is for all practical purposes limitless. Even before his rejuvenation, Magneto once liEed a cargo freighter weighing 30,000 tons 50 feet into the air from a distance of 300 feet away. Moreover, Magneto can use his magnetic powers in more than one way simultaneously. He can completely assemble a complicated machine within seconds through his powers. He can erec! magnetic force fields with a high degree of impenetrability around himself for protection. Although Magneto often gestures when using his magnetic powers, he can utilize them fully even when standing totally still merely by concentrating.

Although Magneto's primary power is magnetism, he seems to have some ability to project or manipulate any form of energy that is related to magnetism. In the past he has fired a bolt of electricity, he has also created enough intense heat to destroy a metal door. Heat, or infrared radiation, is part of the electromagnetic spectrum, which also includes visible light, radio waves, ultraviolet light, gamma-rays, and x-rays. Magneto may be able to project any of these. He has also been shown creating an anti-gravity field, and presumably does so whenever he levitates a non-magnetic object. Hence, Magneto may be living proof of the longsought Unified Field Theory that all forms of energy are related.

Magneto has apparently exhibited powers of astral projection and telepathy, and has claimed to be able to control the minds of others. His abilities along these lines are minimal, however-enough, perhaps, to protect himself against mightier telepaths, but not of great use otherwise.

Mainstream
Magneto a telepath? next you'll be saying he can turn to animals and joined the teen titans. I know magneto weaker and everything but you don't have to give him new powers and such.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
he can project energy dude..I didn't believe it either but I went to uncanny xmen.net and read up on it and this fight is between Apocalypse and Magneto not AoA Apocalypse and Hippy Magneto.

Precisely my point son. AOA apoc and mainstream one are basically the same. AOA Mag has half of mainstream Mags power yet it was still enough to disperse apocalypse guts all over his own front yard.

616 Mags is a lot more powerful than his AOA counterpart. Read the bio above to see what Mags was capable of prior to his upgrade. The man can now warp space to create wormholes. That takes tremendous power. I know Apocalypse can project energy its how you said he can project virtually unlimited amounts of it that made me laugh.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
Magneto a telepath? next you'll be saying he can turn to animals and joined the teen titans. I know magneto weaker and everything but you don't have to give him new powers and such.

Your ignorance is astounding. You obviously dont read Xmen or you wouldnt have just said that. I do read Xmen and all X- related titles as well as the Avengers and any other limited series that takes my interest. Im well versed on both characters. Your statement proves you are not. I never wrote this bio. This comes direct from the Marvel Directory. I'll send you a link. Happy reading!!

http://www.marveldirectory.com/xoops/modules/wordbook/entry.php?entryID=445

Mainstream
I know about the wormhole thingie..but that weaken Magneto quite a bit...when Magneto can grow and use his powers to reshape heaven and hell, dance inside the heart of the sun, sell 10 million rap ablums world wide or even...I don't know WIN THE POLL he might have a 0.0001% chance of beating Apocalypse. okay 0.001%.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
I know about the wormhole thingie..but that weaken Magneto quite a bit...when Magneto can grow and use his powers to reshape heaven and hell, dance inside the heart of the sun, sell 10 million rap ablums world wide or even...I don't know WIN THE POLL he might have a 0.0001% chance of beating Apocalypse. okay 0.001%.

I havent argued on this thread for a little while before today. Im quite sure if i did son that the poll would have a very different result.

Im sorry but you dont seem to have addressed my dismissing of your bios. You havent even come back to me after i so kindly posted that link for you. Why would that be? Probably cos im right. *sigh* This is getting tiresome. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Mainstream
I grow wearly or this endless babble.....lets just say Magneto would give Apocalypse a good show..better than anyone else could one on one but in the end...En Sabar Nurr would win....after all he is our true savior...Son. if Magento had an sense he'd hide hideing_behind_computer only the combine forces of several mutants could beat Apocalypse and by beat I mean force him to regroup and come back more powerful than any mere mortal could possible imagine.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
I grow wearly or this endless babble.....lets just say Magneto would give Apocalypse a good show..better than anyone else could one on one but in the end...En Sabar Nurr would win....after all he is our true savior...Son. if Magento had an sense he'd hide hideing_behind_computer only the combine forces of several mutants could beat Apocalypse and by beat I mean force him to regroup and come back more powerful than any mere mortal could possible imagine.

That waffle added nothing to this thread whatsover. I dont believe any of your posts have. You've just agreed with anyone who said anything positive about apocalypse without adding anything worthy of anyones attention yourself. Apocalypse has been owned so many times, by so many many different people in various degrees of severity that its not even funny.

Last time he tried it with the Xmen, Jean tossed him to the side like an empty KFC bargain bucket, only for cable to skewer him like a kebab.

He got owned by a Summers clan combo!! laughing

Mainstream
didn't magento get turned into a mental veggie by a bald white guy in a wheel chair......the mighty magneto...beaten by a bald guy who lacks the ablility to use his legs?? Magneto is about as threating as this guy meatwad

Mainstream
Apocalypse: poor magneto...a shame I had to destroy him...or well *picks up his helmet* I do like his helmet..it looks bad ass on me.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
didn't magento get turned into a mental veggie by a bald white guy in a wheel chair......the mighty magneto...beaten by a bald guy who lacks the ablility to use his legs?? Magneto is about as threating as this guy meatwad

Im sorry but i seem to recall apocalypse getting ripped to shreds( yet again roll eyes (sarcastic) ) this time by phoenix only to reveal his true form to the world. Phoenix showed his as* to be nothing but some inbred offspring of the CryptKeeper.

Mainstream
but he shall return more powerful and more cunning than even you could dare to imagine...not this child..he is our true savior and no force weather it be mutant, human, robotic, or whatever can destroy him he is the darkness
and what were would light be without darkness?
where would life be without death?
where would sun be without the moon

where would ketchup be without mustard?
where would PS2 be without Xbox?

Apocalypse is needed he is a necessary evil.
he is our true savior
those who fear him are genius those who don't are fool

that pretty good if I do say so myself.yourock

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im sorry but i seem to recall apocalypse getting ripped to shreds( yet again roll eyes (sarcastic) ) this time by phoenix only to reveal his true form to the world. Phoenix showed his as* to be nothing but some inbred offspring of the CryptKeeper.

Apocalypse revealed to the world:

Mainstream
he's beatiful...in a twisted hellish shorta way.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
he's beatiful...in a twisted hellish shorta way.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Apocalypse about to hit the clubs:

Mainstream
I always thought Apoc looked like Mr. Burns from the simpsons

GalacticStorm
Apocalypse chillin at home:

Mainstream
heh heh...your killing me....kenny

GalacticStorm
Giv it up Mainstream the outcome should hav been quite apparent to you the moment i rejoined this thread.

Mainstream
Apocalypse right...our true Savior..he only wants to make everyone a mutant...like the army he wants us to be all that we can be.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
Apocalypse right...our true Savior..he only wants to make everyone a mutant...like the army he wants us to be all that we can be.

Dear child. I truly believe theres no hope in this world for you. sad

Mainstream
have faith in Apocalypse..it's always darkest when your don't pay your light bill and it's dark outside. goodnight big grin

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
have faith in Apocalypse..it's always darkest when your don't pay your light bill and it's dark outside. goodnight big grin

Youre a strange one arent you. confused

Mainstream
what makes you say that?crackpot-lolcontent

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Mainstream
what makes you say that?crackpot-lolcontent

I hav no idea. roll eyes (sarcastic)

maxam00
I hope I'm not too late to buzz in on this. I'm a newbie and I've been cruising through the posts, and thought I'd add my unwanted opinion. I think Apocalype would win based on the fact that He's been able to take the measure of guys like Loki and the guys's even turned into a spaceship, captured the High Evolutionary and hauled his butt into space. This was the evolved giant sized High E, who by the way has whupped Galactus before. the problem is marvel is so inconsistent on power levels. magneteo is powerful, but he can be killed just like pretty much anybody else. the AoA Apocalypse was killed, but I kinda remember Marvel making him an unkillable "External High Lord Immortal", or something like that. In the end I think Apocalype would win since Magneto would eventually tire, and Apocalypse can keep grabbing energy from external sources to supplement himself.

Mainstream
Xplosive the horseman who power almost rivals my own has return to fight for our master...our true savior...*drum roll and opera music plays* Apocalypse!!!!content

banrap Apoc wasn't just the first black mutant..he was the first mutant.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by maxam00
I hope I'm not too late to buzz in on this. I'm a newbie and I've been cruising through the posts, and thought I'd add my unwanted opinion. I think Apocalype would win based on the fact that He's been able to take the measure of guys like Loki and the guys's even turned into a spaceship, captured the High Evolutionary and hauled his butt into space. This was the evolved giant sized High E, who by the way has whupped Galactus before. the problem is marvel is so inconsistent on power levels. magneteo is powerful, but he can be killed just like pretty much anybody else. the AoA Apocalypse was killed, but I kinda remember Marvel making him an unkillable "External High Lord Immortal", or something like that. In the end I think Apocalype would win since Magneto would eventually tire, and Apocalypse can keep grabbing energy from external sources to supplement himself.

Ok another one to put down roll eyes (sarcastic)

Jokes. Ok here we go:

This battle is without prep time. Like i said earlier with prep time apocalypse would take this IMO. Apocalypse beat those guys you mentioned throught planning. He could not just march on their bases and do that. That really isnt debatable. Externals are immortal just like eternals however if you destroy enough of their body on a molecular level then they aint coming back from that. That is FACT.

Many characters draw on outside energy sources to augment themselves. Thats also how hulks power works, its how binarys power works. However that doesnt make them inexhaustible. Tapping into the power, drawing on it and manipulating it takes effort. Apocalypse would eventually get tired to. But not before mags has either ripped him apart again roll eyes (sarcastic) or incinerated him. Magneto is very capable of doing this. With but a gesture he incinerated a member of the neo who was far stronger and durable than rogue for instance. When Mags uses his power ruthlessly theres few beings of earth descent that can stand against him without preparation.

That is why he is called 'perhaps the most powerful mutant on earth' time and time again. wink

Wickerman
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ok another one to put down roll eyes (sarcastic)

Jokes. Ok here we go:

This battle is without prep time. Like i said earlier with prep time apocalypse would take this IMO. Apocalypse beat those guys you mentioned throught planning. He could not just march on their bases and do that. That really isnt debatable. Externals are immortal just like eternals however if you destroy enough of their body on a molecular level then they aint coming back from that. That is FACT.

Many characters draw on outside energy sources to augment themselves. Thats also how hulks power works, its how binarys power works. However that doesnt make them inexhaustible. Tapping into the power, drawing on it and manipulating it takes effort. Apocalypse would eventually get tired to. But not before mags has either ripped him apart again roll eyes (sarcastic) or incinerated him. Magneto is very capable of doing this. With but a gesture he incinerated a member of the neo who was far stronger and durable than rogue for instance. When Mags uses his power ruthlessly theres few beings of earth descent that can stand against him without preparation.

That is why he is called 'perhaps the most powerful mutant on earth' time and time again. wink

The fight...has...already.....taken....place....hello? why are we ignoring the AoA outcome of the battle? I don;t get it. Magneto ripped Apocalypse apart......literally. why are we even discussing this anymore? These two guys are the kind of supervillains that on their own can take out the entire x-men team. However facing each other, Magneto has already won in one instance, and he would most likely win again. If you want i could even create a battle scenario. Unfortunately right now i have a fever and am feeling very weak and sick.

~wickerman~

Mainstream
Originally posted by Wickerman
The fight...has...already.....taken....place....hello? why are we ignoring the AoA outcome of the battle? I don;t get it. Magneto ripped Apocalypse apart......literally. why are we even discussing this anymore? These two guys are the kind of supervillains that on their own can take out the entire x-men team. However facing each other, Magneto has already won in one instance, and he would most likely win again. If you want i could even create a battle scenario. Unfortunately right now i have a fever and am feeling very weak and sick.

~wickerman~

except Apocalypse as your true savior and your health will greatly improve...my child. eek!

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Wickerman
The fight...has...already.....taken....place....hello? why are we ignoring the AoA outcome of the battle? I don;t get it. Magneto ripped Apocalypse apart......literally. why are we even discussing this anymore? These two guys are the kind of supervillains that on their own can take out the entire x-men team. However facing each other, Magneto has already won in one instance, and he would most likely win again. If you want i could even create a battle scenario. Unfortunately right now i have a fever and am feeling very weak and sick.

~wickerman~

Wickerman im the last person you should be directing that at. If you read thru the thread you will see that is exactly what i have been saying all along. So address the likes of Xplosive and Mainstream. They didnt wanna except the AOA outcome even though apocalypse was the same abilities wise in both realities whereas AOA Mags was weaker by half.

I then tried to show them that if the two went up against each other in 616 it would be even more hopeless for Apo cos Mags is far more powerful in this reality thanks to his rejuvenation by Alpha and Erik the Red

Mainstream
Magneto is powerful...but Apocalypse is power

Magneto like a car battery
Apocalypse is like a power plant.

Wickerman
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wickerman im the last person you should be directing that at. If you read thru the thread you will see that is exactly what i have been saying all along. So address the likes of Xplosive and Mainstream. They didnt wanna except the AOA outcome even though apocalypse was the same abilities wise in both realities whereas AOA Mags was weaker by half.

I then tried to show them that if the two went up against each other in 616 it would be even more hopeless for Apo cos Mags is far more powerful in this reality thanks to his rejuvenation by Alpha and Erik the Red

i usually just click the "quote" button of the last post. And the last post was yours i think. Had nothing to do with you since i know we're on the same wave length. wink

And mainstream, right now given my state of health i'd just be willing to smile (ps: there was an earthquake last night and i woke up like 30 seconds before and had a really nasty feeling something bad was gonna happen and had one of those headache thingies. And then...the earthquake came sad something tells me something might be goin' down tonight as well sad )

~wickerman~

Mainstream
take care man we don't have earthquake around here.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Mainstream
take care man we don't have earthquake around here.

Yeah, well, what can i say? that's why i make a great mountain guide. I know when a storm or earthquake is gonna happen beforehand sad

~wickerman~

Mainstream
your a mutant...good our numbers are growing.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Mainstream
your a mutant...good our numbers are growing.

so...what am i? like a storm/avalanche amalgam ? What the f**k?

~wickerman~

Mainstream
I"m a Cable Apocalypse

Cabcalypse

Wickerman
Originally posted by Mainstream
I"m a Cable Apocalypse

Cabcalypse

That sounds like a guy that just immigrated to America from the Far East and is working as a cab driver. A very BAD BAD cab driver What the f**k?

~wickerman~

Mainstream
hysterical2 now that you mention it it does
what about.....
Apocable

Wickerman
Originally posted by Mainstream
hysterical2 now that you mention it it does
what about.....
Apocable

people will mistake you for a native american if you go by that name...not good

~wickerman~

Mainstream
what about Nathan Sabah Nur

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wickerman im the last person you should be directing that at. If you read thru the thread you will see that is exactly what i have been saying all along. So address the likes of Xplosive and Mainstream. They didnt wanna except the AOA outcome even though apocalypse was the same abilities wise in both realities whereas AOA Mags was weaker by half.

I then tried to show them that if the two went up against each other in 616 it would be even more hopeless for Apo cos Mags is far more powerful in this reality thanks to his rejuvenation by Alpha and Erik the Red

GS, it was said Apocalypse in AOA was much weaker, they even put him in class 90. I see poeple voted 8 for Apocalypse and 4 for Magneto wink.
Apocalypse is far beyond Magetno, far. Marvel has Apocalypse as more powerful being. And like I said, don't think too one sided, think objectivly, I foudn out that this forum is always lacking objective vision, sorry, but including you. And GS think now objectivly, Apocalypse is some occasion wasn't hurt by all inhumans and X-Factor combined (Black Bolt was also among them), and he was hurt not even close against High Evolutionary (rememebr High Evolutionary), and than he was hurt, actully killed by 50 % powerd Magneto in AOA, and you GalacticStorm know that 50% Magnetoo is not worth mentioning in power wise (like I said, not close worht mentioning) agiasnt all inhumans and X-Factors. And you know what, if Magneto would be helping to those inhumans and X-Factors, they would still be useless and wouldn't able able to hurt him. Apocalypse is more powerful than Magneto. Apocaypse is written many times weak, in weak state, and some times powerful. Gambit vol. 3 # 3 it was mentioned that a Celestial came down to Earth and took the human form of Garbha Sien, the External Saul, and became an Asian conquerer, and Apocalypse defeated the Celestial, making him helpless (who had shown he still had his powers), wounded him badly, and took his ship, which became his. I think Marvel has Apocalypse in higher league than Magneto.

maxam00
I know that we're to believe that magneto "perhaps", the most powerful mutant on the planet. Except if you toss off Franklin Richards since he is technically the baddest. However, for a guy so powerful, he's been laid out many times by weaker foes. the telepath stuff didn't exactly help him when Prof X shut him down. Of course, he was killed by Wolverine( then not killed), but I'm betting Wolverine couldn't take Apocalypse down. Didn't Mags get stalemated by Iceman waaay back when he was doing the snowman and carrot nose bit? I put guys who don't need to breathe or eat and can survive in space above those who can't. As for the AoA, we never really get to see what Apocalypse could do. he pretty much just hung around taking most of the series. plus, that was an alternate time lost reality. It's not like it was real time Marvel Universe , like the one where Black Cat can beat Sabretooth to a pulp, but he can handle Wolverine with no problem. See that's the problem with Marvel. They have no consistency.

Mainstream
Originally posted by maxam00
I know that we're to believe that magneto "perhaps", the most powerful mutant on the planet. Except if you toss off Franklin Richards since he is technically the baddest. However, for a guy so powerful, he's been laid out many times by weaker foes. the telepath stuff didn't exactly help him when Prof X shut him down. Of course, he was killed by Wolverine( then not killed), but I'm betting Wolverine couldn't take Apocalypse down. Didn't Mags get stalemated by Iceman waaay back when he was doing the snowman and carrot nose bit? I put guys who don't need to breathe or eat and can survive in space above those who can't. As for the AoA, we never really get to see what Apocalypse could do. he pretty much just hung around taking most of the series. plus, that was an alternate time lost reality. It's not like it was real time Marvel Universe , like the one where Black Cat can beat Sabretooth to a pulp, but he can handle Wolverine with no problem. See that's the problem with Marvel. They have no consistency.

agreed maybe Apocalypse and Magneto take turns on who wins or they do rock paper scissors before every brawl laughing

Xplosive
And like I said, for Magneto is said most powerful mutant, but not beacuse he really is but most pwoerful mutant (he is legendarry and everyone almost follows him, he has many mutants behind his back, wathcing his back, much more than any other mutant). Yes, he got stalemated with Iceman, so we could say Iceman is powerful as Magneto (but we know he isn't, peope aren't objective).

maxam00
Isn't Apocalypse still a pretty smart guy without prep time? I mean he's up there with Reed, Doom and possible Thanos. He's learned from the celestials stuff he stole. It only takes a second to dodge Magneto for hsi mind to start working. Magneto's not exactly beaten any real heavy hiters in his time. HBut Magneto needs time to concentrate to be able to rip him apart. His force bubble may or may not be able to stand against Apocalypses might. Also, the most powerful mutant claim is kinda iffy, since he's been beaten by guys like

Mainstream
Apocalypse: I am the alpha mutant...I was choose to lead my people into the next stage of creation...I am immortal...I am invincible...I am evolution...I am...YOUR TRUE SAVIOR...I am APOCALYPSE! and buy my video game Xmen legends 2 rise of the Apocalypse for all major consoles.

Xplosive
Originally posted by maxam00
Isn't Apocalypse still a pretty smart guy without prep time? I mean he's up there with Reed, Doom and possible Thanos. He's learned from the celestials stuff he stole. It only takes a second to dodge Magneto for hsi mind to start working. Magneto's not exactly beaten any real heavy hiters in his time. HBut Magneto needs time to concentrate to be able to rip him apart. His force bubble may or may not be able to stand against Apocalypses might. Also, the most powerful mutant claim is kinda iffy, since he's been beaten by guys like

And I think with consitent writing, proper writing, Magneto can't kill Apocalypse, no doubt. (hell if all inhumans and X-Factors couldn't hurt him, hell Magneto can't hurt him).

Mainstream
true...logically a writer would have a easiler time having Apoc beat Mags
Magneto beating Apoc would be like Jubilee beating Silver Surfer...as you read it you'd be like what in the f**k is this writer smoking. laughing eek!

Wickerman
Originally posted by Mainstream
true...logically a writer would have a easiler time having Apoc beat Mags
Magneto beating Apoc would be like Jubilee beating Silver Surfer...as you read it you'd be like what in the f**k is this writer smoking. laughing eek!

i'm ok with people stating their opinions and all but this is waaaaaaaaaay over the top (funny, but completely not true, and a new member might think you actually believe that).

~wickerman~

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
GS, it was said Apocalypse in AOA was much weaker, they even put him in class 90. I see poeple voted 8 for Apocalypse and 4 for Magneto wink.
Apocalypse is far beyond Magetno, far. Marvel has Apocalypse as more powerful being. And like I said, don't think too one sided, think objectivly, I foudn out that this forum is always lacking objective vision, sorry, but including you. And GS think now objectivly, Apocalypse is some occasion wasn't hurt by all inhumans and X-Factor combined (Black Bolt was also among them), and he was hurt not even close against High Evolutionary (rememebr High Evolutionary), and than he was hurt, actully killed by 50 % powerd Magneto in AOA, and you GalacticStorm know that 50% Magnetoo is not worth mentioning in power wise (like I said, not close worht mentioning) agiasnt all inhumans and X-Factors. And you know what, if Magneto would be helping to those inhumans and X-Factors, they would still be useless and wouldn't able able to hurt him. Apocalypse is more powerful than Magneto. Apocaypse is written many times weak, in weak state, and some times powerful. Gambit vol. 3 # 3 it was mentioned that a Celestial came down to Earth and took the human form of Garbha Sien, the External Saul, and became an Asian conquerer, and Apocalypse defeated the Celestial, making him helpless (who had shown he still had his powers), wounded him badly, and took his ship, which became his. I think Marvel has Apocalypse in higher league than Magneto.

Where does it say apocalypse is just class 90? Thats absolute rubbish made up by yourself just to support your argument. AOA apocalypse is just the same as mainstream apocalypse in terms of powers. Yet he still got his as* torn up by a weak magneto.

Also a magneto with only half of his power is still powerful and still very dangerous. Before his recent upgrade a few months ago, Magneto was still enormously powerful and able to singlehandedly take out teams such as the Xmen and the Avengers.

Your logic is so play school sometimes it really is. You of all people can hardly criticise my way of thinking. That is quite laughable.

Just because Apocalypse apparently(because you havent given references) defeats a team with black bolt on the roster doesnt mean anything. Black bolt can only power himself to class 60. Strength wise hes not much more than rogue. Also black bolt has to constantly restrain his powers. If he cut loose in this battle you talk of dont you think he would have destroyed both opposition and team mates alike. A whisper from him can shatter mountains for Gods sake roll eyes (sarcastic) You think objectively Xplosive and look past your love for Apocalypse.

Also on to the celestial taking the form of an external. Despite a celestials great power, doing so would imbue the celestial with the weaknesses inherent in such a form. Meaning that it could be killed in the same way any other external could be.

Wickerman
I know it's part of Apoc's power to grow in size considerably. However, shaping his arms into guns, etc. etc. that's part of merging with the celestial technology right? Also, that includes nanobots entering his bloodstream and basically changing him upon his desire right? Now...couldn't a non weakened Magneto simply rip those nanobots out of Apoc's body? After all, he did it to wolverine's adamantium, and doing it on a molecular level to the nanobots may require more concentration, but he might be able to pull it off. Comments? yes? no? maybe?

~wickerman~

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where does it say apocalypse is just class 90? Thats absolute rubbish made up by yourself just to support your argument. AOA apocalypse is just the same as mainstream apocalypse in terms of powers. Yet he still got his as* torn up by a weak magneto.

Also a magneto with only half of his power is still powerful and still very dangerous. Before his recent upgrade a few months ago, Magneto was still enormously powerful and able to singlehandedly take out teams such as the Xmen and the Avengers.

Your logic is so play school sometimes it really is. You of all people can hardly criticise my way of thinking. That is quite laughable.

Just because Apocalypse apparently(because you havent given references) defeats a team with black bolt on the roster doesnt mean anything. Black bolt can only power himself to class 60. Strength wise hes not much more than rogue. Also black bolt has to constantly restrain his powers. If he cut loose in this battle you talk of dont you think he would have destroyed both opposition and team mates alike. A whisper from him can shatter mountains for Gods sake roll eyes (sarcastic) You think objectively Xplosive and look past your love for Apocalypse.

Also on to the celestial taking the form of an external. Despite a celestials great power, doing so would imbue the celestial with the weaknesses inherent in such a form. Meaning that it could be killed in the same way any other external could be.

No help (you are talking about love, making PF as icnarantion of TOAA, hahaha). Anyway, Apocalypse withstand (it was Marvel Dictionary, something like that, that said in AoA Apocalypse was class 90) not only Black Bolt, fought wtih High Evolutionary, beat Celestial (not coincidence and since it was said in X-Factor 68 for first time Apocalypse powers belongs in cosmis class, he backed that up that pretty good), he is above Magento, no doubt.

Mainstream
I believe it's possible but it's not like Apocalypse is gonna just sit there and not blast, shot, kick slap, throw, hurl or head butt magneto

GalacticStorm
Simply put without prep time in a straight out battle Apocalypse would lose against current Mags. Apocalypse is powerful but not on that level at all. His strength lies in his schemes and technology.

As for the telepath stuff not helping Magneto. What the hell do you expect? Magneto has minimal telepathic abilities enabling astral projection and, the ability to influence minds weaker than his own but thats it. Hes no proper telepath. He can resist telepathic control but thats it. He was going against the most powerful telepath on the planet at the time. Xavier was being ruthless and intended to shut down Mags' mind. The same thing would hav happened to apocalypse or any other non cosmic being on earth.

Phoenix telepathically restrained Apocalypse in The Search For Cyclops so there you go. She would have had a much harder job doing so with Mags and thats not debatable.

Xplosive
In Cable 1, 2, and 5 and X-Men 23 it mentions Apocalypse exists in all realities/timelines at once (all 3 written by Fabien Nicieza).
Also, in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (by Scott Lobdell), it mentions Apocalypse is a force like the Phoenix Force, and possesses bodies, but keeps on burning them out because he keeps on evolving past his old self and keeps on growing more powerful. In X-Men 98 (Alan Davis/Terry Kavanaugh) it mentions that Apocalypse's current Cyclops body is just a minor manifestation, and the bulk of what he is exists outside time and space, though that body doesn't know it; and X-Men 98, and Uncanny X-Men 378 had him saying he had the powers of the 12 when he didn't as Xavier stated to Apocalypse in X-Men 98, and Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

Mainstream
whoa.....

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
I know it's part of Apoc's power to grow in size considerably. However, shaping his arms into guns, etc. etc. that's part of merging with the celestial technology right? Also, that includes nanobots entering his bloodstream and basically changing him upon his desire right? Now...couldn't a non weakened Magneto simply rip those nanobots out of Apoc's body? After all, he did it to wolverine's adamantium, and doing it on a molecular level to the nanobots may require more concentration, but he might be able to pull it off. Comments? yes? no? maybe?

~wickerman~

No, Apocalypse can completely control his body, so no.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
No help (you are talking about love, making PF as icnarantion of TOAA, hahaha). Anyway, Apocalypse withstand (it was Marvel Dictionary, something like that, that said in AoA Apocalypse was class 90) not only Black Bolt, fought wtih High Evolutionary, beat Celestial (not coincidence and since it was said in X-Factor 68 for first time Apocalypse powers belongs in cosmis class, he backed that up that pretty good), he is above Magento, no doubt.

You cant be that stupid please tell me you aint. roll eyes (sarcastic)

I never made Phoenix the incarnation of TOAA in our plane of existence. Marvel did. Its in the comics laid out for all to see. You got a problem wiv that? Take it up with Marvel otherwise your meaningless comment is ignored and swatted to the side.

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Simply put without prep time in a straight out battle Apocalypse would lose against current Mags.
Phoenix telepathically restrained Apocalypse in The Search For Cyclops so there you go. She would have had a much harder job doing so with Mags and thats not debatable.

First, he wouldn't lose (not Apocalypse who apered in X-Factor 68), and current Mags is upgraded Mags (Apocalypse is though to be still dead, wait for Apocalypse upgrade).
It's not debetableo, because she would restrain Magneto much easier.

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You cant be that stupid please tell me you aint. roll eyes (sarcastic)

I never made Phoenix the incarnation of TOAA in our plane of existence. Marvel did. Its in the comics laid out for all to see. You got a problem wiv that? Take it up with Marvel otherwise your meaningless comment is ignored and swatted to the side.

Marvel never did that, it did say PF is secnd to TOAA. I hope you ar not that stupid, cause it's hard man. sick

Wickerman
Originally posted by Xplosive
In Cable 1, 2, and 5 and X-Men 23 it mentions Apocalypse exists in all realities/timelines at once (all 3 written by Fabien Nicieza).
Also, in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (by Scott Lobdell), it mentions Apocalypse is a force like the Phoenix Force, and possesses bodies, but keeps on burning them out because he keeps on evolving past his old self and keeps on growing more powerful. In X-Men 98 (Alan Davis/Terry Kavanaugh) it mentions that Apocalypse's current Cyclops body is just a minor manifestation, and the bulk of what he is exists outside time and space, though that body doesn't know it; and X-Men 98, and Uncanny X-Men 378 had him saying he had the powers of the 12 when he didn't as Xavier stated to Apocalypse in X-Men 98, and Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

Everybody is considered to exist in all realities/timelines at once. As for the same as Phoenix Force crap....that's just crappy writing. Apocalypse is a freekin mutant that stole celestial technology. Phoenix was part of the Big Bang and is said to be the force that will destroy the Universe and let a new one rise from its ashes. Apocalypse can't keep 12 freekin mutants under control.
As for manipulating and reshaping reality, you should talk to Wanda big grin She does it without even realizing, in her sleep big grin

~wickerman~

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
Everybody is considered to exist in all realities/timelines at once. As for the same as Phoenix Force crap....that's just crappy writing. Apocalypse is a freekin mutant that stole celestial technology. Phoenix was part of the Big Bang and is said to be the force that will destroy the Universe and let a new one rise from its ashes. Apocalypse can't keep 12 freekin mutants under control.
As for manipulating and reshaping reality, you should talk to Wanda big grin She does it without even realizing, in her sleep big grin

~wickerman~

X-Men 378 had him saying he had the powers of the 12 when he didn't as Xavier stated to Apocalypse in X-Men 98, and Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Xplosive
X-Men 378 had him saying he had the powers of the 12 when he didn't as Xavier stated to Apocalypse in X-Men 98, and Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

Well i'm not surprised he'd say he had the powers even though he didn't. And the reality warping stuff doesn't even bother me anymore. In that department, Wanda which doesn't need technology or preparation beforehand can do it quicker, faster and prettier than he can big grin

~wickerman~

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
Well i'm not surprised he'd say he had the powers even though he didn't. And the reality warping stuff doesn't even bother me anymore. In that department, Wanda which doesn't need technology or preparation beforehand can do it quicker, faster and prettier than he can big grin

~wickerman~

That what I said, I think you never even knew that, so it's pointless.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Xplosive
That what I said, I think you never even knew that, so it's pointless.

bout the 378/98 inconsistency? or what? no, didn't know bout that particular one.

~wickerman~

Crimson Phoenix
Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

Yes he did, but he couldnt have done it without the 12. Reality warping isnt part of his powers.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
In Cable 1, 2, and 5 and X-Men 23 it mentions Apocalypse exists in all realities/timelines at once (all 3 written by Fabien Nicieza).
Also, in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (by Scott Lobdell), it mentions Apocalypse is a force like the Phoenix Force, and possesses bodies, but keeps on burning them out because he keeps on evolving past his old self and keeps on growing more powerful. In X-Men 98 (Alan Davis/Terry Kavanaugh) it mentions that Apocalypse's current Cyclops body is just a minor manifestation, and the bulk of what he is exists outside time and space, though that body doesn't know it; and X-Men 98, and Uncanny X-Men 378 had him saying he had the powers of the 12 when he didn't as Xavier stated to Apocalypse in X-Men 98, and Apocalypse manipulated all of reality and reshaped it twice.

For a start. What you said was not impressive at all. To someone who just skim reads it and doesnt actually take it in(Mainstream) it maybe but for someone wiv common sense and gd comic book knowledge i deem it a waste of a post.

If im to believe your ref to Xmen 23 it may say that apocalypse exists in all realities but errr so what?!! That just means he has alternate selves in alternate realities/universes and so on. I think you'll find hes not exactly unique in that respect wink

Whats the point in telling me what apocalypse did with the power of the twelve? Its not impressive at all. It wasnt his own power. For apocalypse to have a chance of world domination he required the energies of all of those other mutants, cos he sure as hell couldnt take on the worlds forces singlehandedly like say Magneto has on many occassions

Xplosive
Originally posted by Wickerman
bout the 378/98 inconsistency? or what? no, didn't know bout that particular one.

~wickerman~

We can say than, all Marvel stories are inconsistent all the time.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
Marvel never did that, it did say PF is secnd to TOAA. I hope you ar not that stupid, cause it's hard man. sick

Have you read the whole Dark Phoenix VS Krona thread. Dont continually tell me Marvel didnt do that, or that im stupid to think that way when its actually in the comics laid out plain and clear. Theres many refernces in that thread so if you want to be enlightened then get reading.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Xplosive
We can say than, all Marvel stories are inconsistent all the time.

which they mostly are to tell the truth. They have bad writing that they then try to correct when they notice the fans don't like it much like you would in a soap opera. Only here instead of having annoying 30-70 year old women it's mostly teenage geeks they have to please. So.....here we start with alternate realities, timelines, and aliens. Yep....GREAT writing sad

~wickerman~

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Have you read the whole Dark Phoenix VS Krona thread. Dont continually tell me Marvel didnt do that, or that im stupid to think that way when its actually in the comics laid out plain and clear. Theres many refernces in that thread so if you want to be enlightened then get reading.

Second to creator, now we know that maby it isn't even in top 5 (but probabky it is). (BTW GalacticStorm, you have nice signature image, I must get one with Apocalypse)

''which they mostly are to tell the truth. They have bad writing that they then try to correct when they notice the fans don't like it much like you would in a soap opera. Only here instead of having annoying 30-70 year old women it's mostly teenage geeks they have to please. So.....here we start with alternate realities, timelines, and aliens. Yep....GREAT writing sad

~wickerman~''

Sadly

Mainstream
Apocalypse: I bring forth the gift of Oblivion.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
Second to creator, now we know that maby it isn't even in top 5 (but probabky it is). (BTW GalacticStorm, you have nice signature image, I must get one with Apocalypse)

''which they mostly are to tell the truth. They have bad writing that they then try to correct when they notice the fans don't like it much like you would in a soap opera. Only here instead of having annoying 30-70 year old women it's mostly teenage geeks they have to please. So.....here we start with alternate realities, timelines, and aliens. Yep....GREAT writing sad

~wickerman~''

Sadly

Whether you like it or not that is the situation with the phoenix force. In my opinion the original idea made a lot more sense than the 86 retcon. It was that retcon which involved alternate realities and timelines with thephoenix story

Mainstream
the phoenix stuff confusing is Jean the Phoenix..did the phoenix make it self to look like Jean...are they both the Phoenix....brain.......hurt.

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whether you like it or not that is the situation with the phoenix force.

Not anymore.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
Not anymore.

What do you mean not anymore. Marvel has only just reverted back to the original idea over the last two years. Starting wiv Grant Morrisons run on New Xmen and ending with the last story phoenix was seen in which was endsong just last month. So what do you mean? Xplosive you obviously dont read Xmen regularly or you would know all of this

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What do you mean not anymore. Marvel has only just reverted back to the original idea over the last two years. Starting wiv Grant Morrisons run on New Xmen and ending with the last story phoenix was seen in which was endsong just last month. So what do you mean? Xplosive you obviously dont read Xmen regularly or you would know all of this


Well, PF is not TOAA, if it was meant, it's not anymore.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
I read, but you are making PF was originally meant as TOAA, but not the real TOAA we all have in minds. LT will always be above PF.

Youre obviously not understanding what was said in the thread. What you need to understand XP is that the likes of me and markolin are just presenting to you what is in the comics and thats that. We're not making it up because we love the phoenix.

The phoenix force is an incarnation of the TOAA in our multiverse. You got that?

TOAA exists outside our plane of existence therefore it used Jean burning up in the shuttle incident as an oppurtunity to funnel into our existence through her creating Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is just an aspect of TOAA. Certain beings are born with phoenix potential which makes them avatars.

These avatars act as doctors of the multiverse fixing what needs to be healed (MiKraan) and burning or disinfecting what doesnt work(D'Bari and Sublime)

These avatars carry out the work of the TOAA in our plane of existnce.

They can be killed but they will just eventually be reborn after reforming in the White Room wherever they need to carry out their phoenix work.

Please tell me you understand now?

Mainstream
yes...m..m..ma...master

Wickerman
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre obviously not understanding what was said in the thread. What you need to understand XP is that the likes of me and markolin are just presenting to you what is in the comics and thats that. We're not making it up because we love the phoenix.

The phoenix force is an incarnation of the TOAA in our multiverse. You got that?

TOAA exists outside our plane of existence therefore it used Jean burning up in the shuttle incident as an oppurtunity to funnel into our existence through her creating Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is just an aspect of TOAA. Certain beings are born with phoenix potential which makes them avatars.

These avatars act as doctors of the multiverse fixing what needs to be healed (MiKraan) and burning or disinfecting what doesnt work(D'Bari and Sublime)

These avatars carry out the work of the TOAA in our plane of existnce.

They can be killed but they will just eventually be reborn after reforming in the White Room wherever they need to carry out their phoenix work.

Please tell me you understand now?

This has been a great reply. I should actually save this somewhere and post it when this stuff occurs again. Like i said on another thread about Jean = the Phoenix. I basically said that she acts as a Proxy (Avatar) for theTOAA.

~wickerman~

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The Phoenix Force is an incarnation of the TOAA in our multiverse. You got that?

TOAA exists outside our plane of existence therefore it used Jean burning up in the shuttle incident as an oppurtunity to funnel into our existence through her creating Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is just an aspect of TOAA. Certain beings are born with Phoenix potential which makes them avatars.

These avatars act as doctors of the multiverse fixing what needs to be healed (M'Kraan) and burning or disinfecting what doesnt work (D'Bari and Sublime).

These avatars carry out the work of the TOAA in our plane of existnce.


Please tell me you understand now?

I understood that before. But here logicall. And TOAA is in all of existence of course, but in our multiverse he is in look of PF (or PF is incarantion of TOAA and through her created Phoenix as he can do with other potential avatars, Avatars=PF acts through them=TOAA acts through them). Jean was his opportunity to come in our existence (he needed opportunity, wow, like there is no other way for TOAA and now are more avatars of course, and they are his opportunity, amazing. He doesn't need opportunities, he probably choses specifecelly which host has that potential, so he could created everyone to be his avatars). To heal everyhitng, well also aspect of changing into Dark Phoenix and destroying everything that is. Good job writers.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
I understood that before. But here logicall. And TOAA is in all of existence of course, but in our multiverse he is in look of PF (or PF is incarantion of TOAA and through her created Phoenix as he can do with other potential avatars, Avatars=PF acts through them=TOAA acts through them). Jean was his opportunity to come in our existence (he needed opportunity, wow, like there is no other way for TOAA and now are more avatars of course, and they are his opportunity, amazing. He doesn't need opportunities, he probably choses specifecelly which host has that potential, so he could created everyone to be his avatars). To heal everyhitng, well also aspect of changing into Dark Phoenix and destroying everything that is. Good job writers.

Of course Jean was chosen. She was born with Phoenix potential. If you read Classic Xmen you will see that Phoenix appeared to Jean way back when she was a child. The whole space shuttle incident was destined. Jean is the Phoenix of the White Crown thats why TOAA waited for that particular oppurtunity. Jean had to die to be reborn as the Phoenix. That is the way of the Phoenix. It represents among many things rebirth. She had to leave behind her previous form of existence just to be reborn where she was needed. Back in the 616 reality to heal the M'kraan crystal.

Quentin Quire(Kid Omega) at the end of New Xmen was also found out to be one with phoenix potential. All phoenixes leave their former existences to be reborn as a phoenix. During the Riot story arc he evolved. We knew that his thought evolved into faster than light mental energy and that he entered higher planes and rooms. He went to the White Hot Room. The place outside of existence beyond the towers death made to house the spirits of everything, including the likes of Galactus. Here they reform just before their rebirth. This mirrors Jeans first transition into the phoenix , when she to became a being of pure mental energy before reforming in Jamaica bay.

In Morrison's version the Phoenix is its avatars and a higher consciousness. The avatars have genetic mutations for being Phoenixes and have enormous psychic potential. The Phoenix Consciousness seems to be a collective consciousness of the avatars from the White Hot Room. This "they" seems to have a mental connection to them from the White Hot Room. It also seems to be able to regulate what they are allowed to do and how they will resurrect.

Jean and Quentin talk of "they" yet the only they we see are them and their fellow Phoenixes. They speak in their own Phoenix Voice yet there is a main voice that doens't come from any specific being that talks like a computer or collective with // marks.


Just because she is one with an aspect of TOAA doesnt make her infallible. She is still human after all. In the blink of an eye she went from being your average mutant telepath/telekinetic to being second only to the creator in terms of power. So its understandable that she lost her way.

However Jean destroying D'Bari was all part of the Phoenixes work. Jean mentions the cosmic side of the coin in New Xmen. It burns through things that don't work, it eats stars and planets, it talks to her, and if she gets too close it replaces her.

-But these replacements are not literal. She is replaced in that she is consumed by the Phoenix Consciousness. Jean was 'replaced' by the Phoenix twice in New but was also the same character- before, during, and after being consumed. Just like Classic 8 backstory shows- the whole 'Phoenix replaced Jean' story was not literal. This is what happens naturally when she gets too close to the power.

Jeans Dark Phoenix transition was her mind at conflict with the Phoenix consciousness. She was new to the way of the Phoenix she didnt understand.

So dont discredit the writers because of your lack of understanding Xplosive. Theres often a lot more to comic books than pretty pictures. Theres hidden depth which you obviously bypass when you do read them.

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Of course Jean was chosen. She was born with Phoenix potential. If you read Classic Xmen you will see that Phoenix appeared to Jean way back when she was a child. The whole space shuttle incident was destined. Jean is the Phoenix of the White Crown thats why TOAA waited for that particular oppurtunity. Jean had to die to be reborn as the Phoenix. That is the way of the Phoenix. It represents among many things rebirth. She had to leave behind her previous form of existence just to be reborn where she was needed. Back in the 616 reality to heal the M'kraan crystal.

Quentin Quire(Kid Omega) at the end of New Xmen was also found out to be one with phoenix potential. All phoenixes leave their former existences to be reborn as a phoenix. During the Riot story arc he evolved. We knew that his thought evolved into faster than light mental energy and that he entered higher planes and rooms. He went to the White Hot Room. The place outside of existence beyond the towers death made to house the spirits of everything, including the likes of Galactus. Here they reform just before their rebirth. This mirrors Jeans first transition into the phoenix , when she to became a being of pure mental energy before reforming in Jamaica bay.

In Morrison's version the Phoenix is its avatars and a higher consciousness. The avatars have genetic mutations for being Phoenixes and have enormous psychic potential. The Phoenix Consciousness seems to be a collective consciousness of the avatars from the White Hot Room. This "they" seems to have a mental connection to them from the White Hot Room. It also seems to be able to regulate what they are allowed to do and how they will resurrect.

Jean and Quentin talk of "they" yet the only they we see are them and their fellow Phoenixes. They speak in their own Phoenix Voice yet there is a main voice that doens't come from any specific being that talks like a computer or collective with // marks.


Just because she is one with an aspect of TOAA doesnt make her infallible. She is still human after all. In the blink of an eye she went from being your average mutant telepath/telekinetic to being second only to the creator in terms of power. So its understandable that she lost her way.

However Jean destroying D'Bari was all part of the Phoenixes work. Jean mentions the cosmic side of the coin in New Xmen. It burns through things that don't work, it eats stars and planets, it talks to her, and if she gets too close it replaces her.

-But these replacements are not literal. She is replaced in that she is consumed by the Phoenix Consciousness. Jean was 'replaced' by the Phoenix twice in New but was also the same character- before, during, and after being consumed. Just like Classic 8 backstory shows- the whole 'Phoenix replaced Jean' story was not literal. This is what happens naturally when she gets too close to the power.

Jeans Dark Phoenix transition was her mind at conflict with the Phoenix consciousness. She was new to the way of the Phoenix she didnt understand.

So dont discredit the writers because of your lack of understanding Xplosive. Theres often a lot more to comic books than pretty pictures. Theres hidden depth which you obviously bypass when you do read them.

HAHAHAHA, lack of understnding (you want know what are deep stroiy, AoA, that is deeper story, not some Phoenix an her battle with Phoenix consciousness,), you lack understanding, she didn't understand what she was deling with and TOAA would allow to destroy everything there is, yeah good job writers. Marvel writers can be the most digusting writers ever, you just can't get, do you, and than they make soem new thing up. Beucse of he battle or conflict with Phoenix consciousness, she wanted to destroy everything thtere is, yeah deep storyline, get real.
No wonder Mathew Vaugh says there are disgutnig and really bad things in DP Saga, thank for opening my mind, now I really get why he meant it. Just because she is one with an aspect of TOAA doesnt make her infallible (TOAA would just allow everyhtin to be gone, just because of her conflict). What are Marvel writers thinkng. Disgustnig and cheapest thing ever.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
HAHAHAHA, lack of understnding (you want know what are deep stroiy, AoA, that is deeper story, not some Phoenix an her battle with Phoenix consciousness,), you lack understanding, she didn't understand what she was delaing with and TOAA would allow to destoy everything that is, yeah good job writers. Marvel writers can be the most digusting writers ever, you just can't get, do you, and than they make soem new thing up. Beucse of he battle or conflict with Phoenix consciousness with, she wanted to destroy everything thtere is, yeah deep storyline, get real. TOAA wanted to destroyed or alow to be destroyed ebause of her confilct, you lack understanding.
No wonder Mathew Vaugh says there are disgutnig and really bad things in DP Saga, thank for opening my mind, now I really get why he meant it.

You have just made your lack of understanding so apparent not only to myself but to rest of the forum. Also How the hell was AOA a deeper concept or storyline than the phoenix story thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard on these forums. How old are you anyway? Your grammar and vocabulary are appalling. Plus you honestly do seem very slow. It took you from yesterday evening till this morning for you to get the whole Phoenix Force, TOAA connection. Please someone tell him how stupid his posts are.

I would reply to this mess of a post, if i could understand what the hell you were trying to say. Go back to school XP. You dont meet the requirements necessary to converse with adult minds.

Xplosive
And hoenstly, I don't read X-men beause of prety picuter, hell, picture aren't soemhitng specail, buut ebacuse of stories, and PS s just not that good, nor somehitn speacially deep.

Xplosive
And hoenstly, I don't read X-men beause of prety picuter, hell, picture aren't soemhitng specail, but beacuse of stories, I found many stories to be deep, but ceratinly not with Phoenix. Deep stories are only ones who are happeing on Earth about between mutants, humans and not about cosmic entites.

GalacticStorm
Why post the same mess twice?

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You have just made your lack of understanding so apparent not only to myself but to rest of the forum. Also How the hell was AOA a deeper concept or storyline than the phoenix story thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard on these forums. How old are you anyway? Your grammar and vocabulary are appalling. Plus you honestly do seem very slow. It took you from yesterday evening till this morning for you to get the whole Phoenix Force, TOAA connection. Please someone tell him how stupid his posts are.

I would reply to this mess of a post, if i could understand what the hell you were trying to say. Go back to school XP. You dont meet the requirements necessary to converse with adult minds.

You ****ing idiot, you don know what deep stories are, I needed TOAA and PF conneciton (cause I never heard of this storie, you moron, I undersatned immediately what you want to say, only didn't want to accept it, beause I never heard of it and it seemed stupid and it is, but I did now, if Marvel says so, I will finally accept but ignere it, because it's one of the cheapts sotries ever, stupid stories are not acceptable with me. Deepst storiea are the one who are happening with mutants, humans conflict and not ****ing comic entites and it seems you can't except it, AoA is deep storilien, PS not even close.

GalacticStorm
The phoenix story is very deep. It contains a lot of kabalistic symbology. Namely the white room, the white crown etc. You took a whole day to comprehend what myself and others were trying to get across to you. So you seeing this story as simple childs material that says a lot for mental faculties.

Also if you dont even read the Xmen who are you to criticise it or even challenge me or others on anything to do with it?

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The phoenix story is very deep. It contains a lot of kabalistic symbology. Namely the white room, the white crown etc. You took a whole day to comprehend what myself and others were trying to get across to you. So you seeing this story as simple childs material that says a lot for mental faculties.

Also if you dont even read the Xmen who are you to criticise it or even challenge me or others on anything to do with it?

I comprehened it immediatelly what were you saying, but I didn't want to accept it, cause I never heared of TOAA and PF connection and it seemed stupid to me and hoenstly I thought you were making it up (TOAA=PF in our Multverse, never hear o it, and didn't want to accept it, and I am not reading new stories about PF often, cause I don't care).

Xplosive
And Phoenix stories are something that cannot be taken seriously (it's only intesresting beacuse of imagination), so it's not deep, only conflict between mutants and humans are deep (because we can comapre it to our real life, conflict and that, you must undersatnd that, Phoenix stories aren't deep, want to be deep, but it isn't, beacuse it't cannot be taken seriously).

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
You ****ing idiot, you don know what deep stories are, I needed TOAA and PF conneciton (cause I never heard of this storie, you moron, I undersatned immediately what you want to say, only didn't want to accept it, beause I never heard of it and it seemed stupid and it is, but I did now, if Marvel says so, I will finally accept but ignere it, because it's one of the cheapts sotries ever, stupid stories are not acceptable with me. Deepst storiea are the one who are happening with mutants, humans conflict and not ****ing comic entites and it seems you can't except it, AoA is deep storilien, PS not even close.

The AOA was a deep storyline was it? Ok tell me about the main themes running throughout it. Tell me about any symbology used or any carefully interwoven sub plots or any masterful plot twists. You got any for me? roll eyes (sarcastic)

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
I comprehened it immediatelly what were you saying, but I didn't want to accept it, cause I never heared of TOAA and PF connection and it seemed stupid to me and hoenstly I thought you were making it up (TOAA=PF in our Multverse, never hear o it, and didn't want to accept it, and I am not reading new stories about PF often, cause I don't care).

You understood everything i said did u? Ok who said this a few hours back?:

"Sorry than, I haven't read the thread, I thought you meant,...it doesn't matter, when I saw TOAA=PF, I immedaitely though, what are you thinink, sorry."

I think the the spelling mistakes give it away wink

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The AOA was a deep storyline was it? Ok tell me about the main themes running throughout it. Tell me about any symbology used or any carefully interwoven sub plots or any masterful plot twists. You got any for me? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Huge war, total destruction, something that we can compare to our real life, Apocalypse=destruction, destroying our lifes (and he lived up to it, and as it seems our world is really towarding this, and when it will, it will be time when we will join to stop terrorist, we can compare this story to our real life, and you cannot deny that, that is deep for me, I know Phoenix story want to be deep, especially about character, symbol, but I cannot take this deep meaning, cause it just can't compare to our real lifes, we cannot really comapre to our life (her conlfict with Phoenix concuoinses, like we can say we have all conlfiict within us, like she had with Phoenix concuoinses, we are having conflict with demons, that is soemthing I take as deep, cause it appael also in our real life, but it's told in other and intersting way that is why I said especially about character, her) , that is how I dispense what is deep, Phoenix stories want to be deep, but I cannot take them as deep meaning as whole, but I can AoA, cause we can really comapre it to our world . That is how I look what is deep). And after AoA, he was destroyed, I compare it like our final war with antichirst, where huge destruciotn will be, but when this anitchrist in our would, will be killed, Satan will be gone, peace will come, God will crush Satan, like Apocalypse was crushed, he was like some big antchirst there, but when he was desytroyed, there was no more threat (like in our world won't be), if we don't count now new AoA, but I am saying for the original one

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You understood everything i said did u? Ok who said this a few hours back?:

"Sorry than, I haven't read the thread, I thought you meant,...it doesn't matter, when I saw TOAA=PF, I immedaitely though, what are you thinink, sorry."

I think the the spelling mistakes give it away wink

That was yesterday (we started at 07:41 PM and my last post was at 8.26 and I said sorry, beauce I read through forum, so how long I needed, only to read forum), so if you see this, you see I immediatelly comprehed it (otherwise I would argue and wouldn't say sorry), but I didn't accept it, cause I just thought what is he making up, giving TOAA=PF, so I knew what you were saying, but I thought you were making it up (giving TOAA=PF, that was juct unacceatble, cause I didn't know story), and didn't read through forum, when I did, you see, I immediatelly said sorry.

GalacticStorm
"that is how I dispense what is deep"


Thats my point. All you've basically said is that you dont like the Phoenix story because you cant relate to it like you can AOA. If thats how you consider a storyline or concept deep then fair enough each to their own but noone else does.

Most other people measure the depth of a storyline by how cleverly written it is. What hidden meanings and symbology it contains within, what clever plot twists it has. How carefully and skillfully subplots are interwoven with the main story.

You see the diffrence?

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"that is how I dispense what is deep"


Thats my point. All you've basically said is that you dont like the Phoenix story because you cant relate to it like you can AOA. If thats how you consider a storyline or concept deep then fair enough each to their own but noone else does.

Most other people measure the depth of a storyline by how cleverly written it is. What hidden meanings and symbology it contains within, what clever plot twists it has. How carefully and skillfully subplots are interwoven with the main story.

You see the diffrence?

Yes I know, I take Phoeinx story as cleverly written (and honestly one of the best, great stroyies, story, cleverly writeen, not plot holes, but that doesn't mean I take them as deep, that is why I explain to you what I take as deep and what is clever (different meanings for me)

Xplosive
And the same goes for movies, someone has deep storylines, some movie is cleverly written, but not that much deep. Let's say Sixth Sense, clverly written, clever twist, cleverly directed, but really not some deep meaning, maybe you take this as deep, but I don't at all.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes I know, I take Phoeinx story as cleverly written (and honestly one of the best, great stroyies, story, cleverly writeen, not plot holes, but that doesn't mean I take them as deep, that is why I explain to you what I take as deep and what is clever (different meanings for me)

Which is why when you make statements like the AOA is an example of a deep well written story you should explain yourself. You should have said you think its deep because you relate to it more which is fair enough. But what you must understand is that your idea of what makes a storyline deep is at odds with virtually everyone elses.

The phoenix story features themes of love conquering all even death, betrayal, inner conflict, self sacrifice.

Despite Jean becoming one with a primal force of creation she is still very much human. She still loves, feels pain, gets jealous, angry and so on. She doesnt suddenly become galactus like in terms of her emotions and manner. She is always very human. If you read the Xmen which you have admitted you dont, then you would know this.

As such, you are not in the position to debate on or criticise especially something you have little to no knowledge of.

I have little knowledge of the DC universe and all its past major sagas, therefore i rarely participate in DC threads. Take a leaf from my book.

You dont have to like the phoenix story, everyones entitled to their own opinion. But dont jump on a thread rubbishing what others are saying without actually having read the thread and without having decent knowledge on the thread subject. You just came on spouting your opinion which you couldnt back up with anything credible. That is annoying to all who have spent hours debating and it makes yourself seem like a newbie.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Xplosive
And the same goes for movies, someone has deep storylines, some movie is cleverly written, but not that much deep. Let's say Sixth Sense, clverly written, clever twist, cleverly directed, but really not some deep meaning, maybe you take this as deep, but I don't at all.

Well say that then instead of just childishly rubbishing peoples views without explaining yourself. You should have said from the beginning what you consider makes a story deep. But you understand that in conventional terms the phoenix story is deeper than AOA however not in your personal opinion because you need to relate to storys to consider them deep.

Xplosive
''Which is why when you make statements like the AOA is an example of a deep well written story you should explain yourself. You should have said you think its deep because you relate to it more which is fair enough. But what you must understand is that your idea of what makes a storyline deep is at odds with virtually everyone elses. ''

Ok, we are clear now with that, since I explained my view about what I take as deep.

''The phoenix story features themes of love conquering all even death, betrayal, inner conflict, self sacrifice.

Despite Jean becoming one with a primal force of creation she is still very much human. She still loves, feels pain, gets jealous, angry and so on. She doesn't suddenly become Galactus like in terms of her emotions and manner. She is always very human. If you read the X-Men which you have admitted you don't, then you would know this. ''

I read X-Men a lot, who said I don't, but I cannot read all. You said I should know this, if I read, I do that is why I said if you read again previos post, that I mostly take as deep when it comes charachter (but you know what, many talks about that things, Spider-Man sacrfice, inner conflict, love...., anyone knows this and anyone will notice this, even cheap stories, comic, movies have such themes, it's just everywhere)

''As such, you are not in the position to debate on or criticise especially something you have little to no knowledge of.''

As I see I have knowldege about Phoenix generally, but I didn't know about this TOAA and (and probably I don't know still like you do about Pheonix) ..., and I said sorry.

GalacticStorm
"and I said sorry"

Cool. Apology accepted. big grin

Xplosive
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well say that then instead of just childishly rubbishing peoples views without explaining yourself. You should have said from the beginning what you consider makes a story deep. But you understand that in conventional terms the Phoenix story is deeper than AOA however not in your personal opinion because you need to relate to storys to consider them deep.

I take AOA deep storyline on whole different level than Phoenix story (not thet I mean saying better or more cleverely written, but about deep storyline general).
Like I said, many talks about that things, Spider-Man sacrfice, inner conflict, love...., anyone knows this and anyone will notice this, even cheap stories, comics, movies have such themes, it's just everywhere (only that Phoenix Story was writen clever and good), also in ourselves, so than I could also say those stories in conventional terms is deeper, but it's talking only about one charachter problem, while AoA was talking about problem for whole humanity (problem on whole Earth), everyone, and beaucse it is really related to our world (but Dark Phoenix threatining whole Universe, we cannot really related that much to our world, or Galactus threatening Earth, it's just much differnet, will cosmic beings really be threat to us, no (he doesn't exist, we won't face him, while Apocalyose in AOA=antichrist, and we will face antchirst someday in human form), but war will, and it really doesn't give you disgusitng or cruel feeling at all as AoA, espeacilly becuase it gives you cruel feeling of war, something that we could really imagine that one day the Earth could really be like this, no story in comic really descirbed state of Earth in true war as AoA that we could compare to our, cause someday we might really face apocalypse, to face antichrist as Apocalypse was in AoA), it's very serios and much more serios than problem of one person, you know what I am saying. Now I understand you are saying different, but at least now we explained our points of view, so that is fair enough. I hope we will understand eachother better in future, especailly I hope we won't insult (espeacilly me sad )

Xplosive
But I hope there won't be any antichrist ever or wars.

maxam00
Uh after all this Phoenix stuff....I still say Apocalypse can beat Magneto.

life is cruell
i think that well written apocolypse should beat magneto but it wont be that easy and in one comic they had magneto getting so mad that he magnetically ripped apocolypse in half

Mainstream
Magneto: what are you doing Apocalypse? why did you kill all those people on that island?

Apocalypse: they were just low level humans child..don't worry about it.

Magneto: but you said you were going to help me make a world were human and mutants could live in peace.

Apocalypse: and the human shall have their peace...eternal peace.

Magneto: YOU LIED TO ME!

Apocalypse: Magneto..everything I say is a lie except for that and that and that and that and that and that and that and that and that and that...and that.

Wickerman
Dudes, chill man, remember the latin saying: "De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum". To each their own.
To me, Xplosive sounds like the kind of person that would love "End of days" and GalacticStorm sounds like he would appreciate "Vanilla Sky". But that really doesn't matter. I don't think these preferences have anything to do with the topic.

And yeah, Life is Cruell, Magneto did indeed rip Apocalypse in half in AoA (Age of Apocalypse).

~wickerman~

Mainstream
Apocalypse: it's true...but tis only a flesh wound.

True Sinister
why are there 2 of these?

Zahit
Department of Redundancy Department.

Mainstream
Originally posted by Zahit
Department of Redundancy Department.

Apocalypse: because I exist in all realities...I am infinite...I am invincible..I am evolution...I am....Apocalypse!!!!!

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