Wolverine Vs. Batman (NO WEAPONS)

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silverexon20s
Two of the best fighters ever, Without the claws and toys,skill only.

CorderaMitchell
This has been done, its a mismatch. Healing and adamantium are still there, sorry. You need to balance it out.

olympian
Wolverine. And this time its not bad writting eek!

Solidus Snake
batman is not stupid. when he realizes taht wolvie can take super human level damage, he'll take out wolvies eyes. ear bang him to pop his eardrums (repeatedly)and give him nerve strikes to immobilize him.


bats is faster than wolvie. how do i know this? wolvie is a damage magnet. in the beginning of a fight (b4 the berzerker mode kicks in) u feel he intentionally goes out to get sliced and diced or shot up because he knows he'll survive? no. wolverine is a damage magnet cause he cant move fast enough. batman as i said will blind him, deafen him, either stay downwind or bloody up his nose to mask his scent. then he'll take him apart.

even if wolvie had his claws i feel this would happen. i dont think wolvie would win. hed land afew hits on bats before bats realized what he was.


batman's most dangerous weapon is his mind. theres no way hes gonna brawl with a man who can take wolverine level damage.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Solidus Snake
batman is not stupid. when he realizes taht wolvie can take super human level damage, he'll take out wolvies eyes. ear bang him to pop his eardrums (repeatedly)and give him nerve strikes to immobilize him.


bats is faster than wolvie. how do i know this? wolvie is a damage magnet. in the beginning of a fight (b4 the berzerker mode kicks in) u feel he intentionally goes out to get sliced and diced or shot up because he knows he'll survive? no. wolverine is a damage magnet cause he cant move fast enough. batman as i said will blind him, deafen him, either stay downwind or bloody up his nose to mask his scent. then he'll take him apart.

even if wolvie had his claws i feel this would happen. i dont think wolvie would win. hed land afew hits on bats before bats realized what he was.


batman's most dangerous weapon is his mind. theres no way hes gonna brawl with a man who can take wolverine level damage.

No offence but...seriously? huh

Solidus Snake
indeed.


bats fights smarter not harder.

xmarksthespot
I'm assuming that there are no gadgets... the thread starter didn't say anything about the suit so we'll let him keep it for what little good it will do against adamantium claws. I'm also assuming the thread only states Batman has no weapons.

In your post you said Batman was faster and asked "How do I know this?" but then didn't actually say how you knew. huh

Last time I checked Wolverine's speed was above peak human, Batman's is at most peak human. Even if he managed to do any of the things (which Wolverine would heal from) that you said he would it's unlikely he could do so without getting three holes in his chest or stomach or brain (which Batman would not heal from).

Realistically in a head to head fight... imo 95 times out of 100 Batman gets sliced and diced. (and I usually argue against Wolverine)

Solidus Snake
nah...im assuming no suit and no claws.

wolvie cannot be as fast as batman as i explained cause he holds more damage than anyone else on th team. cyclops is faster than he is. didnt cyke beat him hand to hand? and batman can take down an army of scott summers blindfolded.

wolverine isrunning around witha skeleton tahts heavier than he is. and as far as i remember he's as strong as a strong human. so its impossible for him to be as limber as his partners.


as i said, bats wont brawl with wolvie cause it wont make sense. he would aim for the soft parts of wolvies body and damage them. especially the specialized sensitive areas. throat, eyes, ears groin etc. cause he'll realize he hurts his hands everytime he punches him in the head/chest.

remember this isnt wolverine and sabretooth duking it out. its batman.

an adamantium skeleton does not an invincible warrior make.

Solidus Snake
wolvies speed was prolly above human when he lost teh adamantium, cause he now could operate w/o the extra 300 lbs.

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by Solidus Snake
batman is not stupid. when he realizes taht wolvie can take super human level damage, he'll take out wolvies eyes. ear bang him to pop his eardrums (repeatedly)and give him nerve strikes to immobilize him.


bats is faster than wolvie. how do i know this? wolvie is a damage magnet. in the beginning of a fight (b4 the berzerker mode kicks in) u feel he intentionally goes out to get sliced and diced or shot up because he knows he'll survive? no. wolverine is a damage magnet cause he cant move fast enough. batman as i said will blind him, deafen him, either stay downwind or bloody up his nose to mask his scent. then he'll take him apart.

even if wolvie had his claws i feel this would happen. i dont think wolvie would win. hed land afew hits on bats before bats realized what he was.


batman's most dangerous weapon is his mind. theres no way hes gonna brawl with a man who can take wolverine level damage.

Batman won't win, despite tactics, batman cant dish enough damage to keep logan down, and they're both extremely good fighters, on the same level,, with logan being faster,stronger, etc.

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by Solidus Snake
nah...im assuming no suit and no claws.

wolvie cannot be as fast as batman as i explained cause he holds more damage than anyone else on th team. cyclops is faster than he is. didnt cyke beat him hand to hand? and batman can take down an army of scott summers blindfolded.

wolverine isrunning around witha skeleton tahts heavier than he is. and as far as i remember he's as strong as a strong human. so its impossible for him to be as limber as his partners.


as i said, bats wont brawl with wolvie cause it wont make sense. he would aim for the soft parts of wolvies body and damage them. especially the specialized sensitive areas. throat, eyes, ears groin etc. cause he'll realize he hurts his hands everytime he punches him in the head/chest.

remember this isnt wolverine and sabretooth duking it out. its batman.

an adamantium skeleton does not an invincible warrior make.

Wolverine can "jump" 50 feet in the air, you're better off not using his feats at all. smokin'

Solidus Snake
when did wolvie jump 50 fet into the air. as far as i knew he couldnt do that.


is it just me or is everyone just getting upgraded in marvel

CorderaMitchell
Its fanboy powers I doubt its accurate, wolverine regenerated from a drop of blood.

Don't read into it too much.

Solidus Snake
oh and wolvie is not as good a fighter as bats. hes a better brawler and more savage. in this instance the claws make the man. if bats had those claws and used to kill, his body count would be higher than wolvies.



if u read the cataclysm series u will see that bats was trained in an art which has "no defense" when he blitzes (circa the cain stories). bats if he wnted could tear logans larynx out with it and immobile him cause he wont be able to breathe. this however may or may not kill wolvie. but it will put him down.

Solidus Snake
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Its fanboy powers I doubt its accurate, wolverine regenerated from a drop of blood.

Don't read into it too much.

this was in the horde annual and was so ridiculous that i almost had a coronary. and he didnt do it of his own power cause he basicall became God in that issue.

CorderaMitchell
Yep, wolverine is the most inconsistant character ever, just read some of his theads. I find it funny how class 100 attacks do no damage to him, but characters like electra and batman hurt him.

Pointinel
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Its fanboy powers I doubt its accurate, wolverine regenerated from a drop of blood.

Don't read into it too much.

DAMN MAN

why is it always fanboy this, fanboy that... lol. why the **** u so sore?

you gotta chill out

P.E.A.C.E.2.U.

CorderaMitchell
I already said wolverine wins, what are you talking about?


You think wolverine can regenerate from a drop of blood? Not surprising seeing as you think he beats iron man.

Peace. smokin'

Pointinel
yo dont get smart alec with me mister

the way you post about wolverine, makes it look like... well you know what the **** im talking bout

batman's stans are worst, 4 real

1

CorderaMitchell
You'd be surprised, and you say I'm sore?

I just know to disregard him regenerate from a drop of blood, its obvious, when you read some of the crap people come up with on these threads, you get tired of it.

I'm not biased, some spiderman stan tried to convince me that Spiderman could move at supersonic speeds, I told him otherwise. Read my stuff closer, as my arguments are very misleading at times, I ussually see a close match, but end up arguing against haters. wink

Solidus Snake
wolverine only regenerated from the drop of blood because he was touching a "GOD STONE". what i wanna know is if dat was true...how the hell he got back his adamantium skeleton?

anyways....wolvie and gladiator are so inconsistent.

CorderaMitchell
Thank you someone realizes that he's the most inconsistant character ever.

No offense, he just is, its interesting to read, but no value in a DEBATE.

silverexon20s
Yes, Wolvie may be stronger, and in the long run Batmans injuries would add up to do him in. In most fights to be declared winner all you have to do is hold your own and land the most hits untill it is broken up. I believe batmans speed and reflexes would hold up to logan, untill fatigue sets in and Bruce slows. Advantage healing factor

Max Spidey 24
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4355811#post4355811 yes Done but better

silverexon20s
OOPS. UMMM OK UHH still cool (ROUND 2! FIGHT!)

badabing
Bumpdevil

Arahan

docb77
I think it depends.

Martial arts tournament type fight/win by points- goes to Batman

fight to Knock-out or death - goes to wolverine.

Superherovandal
you should take away wolvies powers to make it more even.

capt it up
Originally posted by Solidus Snake
nah...im assuming no suit and no claws.

wolvie cannot be as fast as batman as i explained cause he holds more damage than anyone else on th team. cyclops is faster than he is. didnt cyke beat him hand to hand? and batman can take down an army of scott summers blindfolded.

wolverine isrunning around witha skeleton tahts heavier than he is. and as far as i remember he's as strong as a strong human. so its impossible for him to be as limber as his partners.


as i said, bats wont brawl with wolvie cause it wont make sense. he would aim for the soft parts of wolvies body and damage them. especially the specialized sensitive areas. throat, eyes, ears groin etc. cause he'll realize he hurts his hands everytime he punches him in the head/chest.

remember this isnt wolverine and sabretooth duking it out. its batman.

an adamantium skeleton does not an invincible warrior make.
actauly wolverine has superhuman agility reflex strength stamina.

capt it up
This would not be much of a fight at all.
Batman vs. slade in hand two hand and as I recall he put up a fight, but Slades superior abilities took bats down.
Now the only reason bats was able to fight slade was because he superior fighting skills.
Now wolverine on the other hand has around the same abilities as and wolverine is superior fighter to bats.
Wolverine has more training and more then 3 times bats experience.
Wolverine not only superhumanly strong, but his fist is adamatium so that would make ever hit even stronger.
Also wolverine ahs superhuman senses which like DD can tell him his opponents move before they make them.
Also bat man does not have the power to KO wolverine with out wolverine pretty much letting him.
Also Shang-chi who wolverine owns badly when they fought is far superior to bats in ever way.
Wolverine stronger
Wolverines faster
Wolverine has greater stamina
Wolverine more agile.
Wolverine has better reflexes
Batman is more intel.
Wolverine better fighter

Superherovandal
he may have more experience but that doesn't make him a better fighter at all. in fact if we took away his healing and powers he'd get beat pretty bad.

capt it up
Originally posted by Superherovandal
he may have more experience but that doesn't make him a better fighter at all. in fact if we took away his healing and powers he'd get beat pretty bad.
lol he still win.
he has more then 3 times the experience.
he is said many tiems to be the master of every style.
so please tell me how bats is a better fighter?

marvelprince
Originally posted by Solidus Snake
nah...im assuming no suit and no claws.

wolvie cannot be as fast as batman as i explained cause he holds more damage than anyone else on th team. cyclops is faster than he is. didnt cyke beat him hand to hand? and batman can take down an army of scott summers blindfolded.

wolverine isrunning around witha skeleton tahts heavier than he is. and as far as i remember he's as strong as a strong human. so its impossible for him to be as limber as his partners.

as i said, bats wont brawl with wolvie cause it wont make sense. he would aim for the soft parts of wolvies body and damage them. especially the specialized sensitive areas. throat, eyes, ears groin etc. cause he'll realize he hurts his hands everytime he punches him in the head/chest.

remember this isnt wolverine and sabretooth duking it out. its batman.

an adamantium skeleton does not an invincible warrior make.

You really don't know much about Wolverine don't you? He takes more damage than anyoone else because he can, not because he's slow. He has enhanced speed so he actually is faster. Wolverine also has enhanced strength even without the skeleton so he stronger than Batman. Also Wolverine is not a brawler. He's one of the best h2h fighters in Marvel with many different types of training. Bats isn't stupid, but Wolverine isn't either. In fact there was an issue where it was shown that Wolverine's brain works kinda like a computer, calculating different scenarios and how to counter them. I agree people give wolvie waaaaaay to much credit but there is no way he's losing in this fight

marvelprince
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Thank you someone realizes that he's the most inconsistant character ever.

No offense, he just is, its interesting to read, but no value in a DEBATE.

I agree with you hear 100%. One minute he's taking punches from Hulk and the next Punisher is knocking him out with a baseball bat? Wtf?! He's also made to do way more than he is capable of alot of the time too. He still beats Batman though

Sixth_Winged
Wolverine's bones are is still amazingly dense(hence the bone claws able to slice through metals and such) and coupled with his healing factor, he could take anything Batman can dish short of lethal pressure points that would only amount to KO at best. MA wise Bruce might be up there, but wolverine trumps him in every physical stats save probably height and reach. Wolverine should take a comfortable 7-8/10 majority over Bruce.

Metalmanx
I'm going to have to give this to Wolverine. Just because of sheer ability to heal/regenerate/live.

riceroost
Wolverine kills Batman. There is no way Batman stands a chance against him.

Physical Stats:

All of Wolverine's physical abilities are beyond peak human.

Strength: never been clearly determined, but it is way more than Bat's

Feats:
-Punched Rogue through a brick wall.
-Knocked out Roughouse with punches. (level 5 durability)
-Drop Kicked Hulk to the ground.
-Thrown Colossus (500 lbs.) with enough force to knock over the Juggernaut.
-Lifted up 7-10 mercenaries with one arm.
-Breaks chains designed to hold large animals like Bulls or Elephants.

Speed: again, never clearly determined, but it is well beyond human.

Feats:

-chases down wild animals.
-moves faster than human eyes can follow.
-able to dodge automatic gunfire from several shooters.
-Spider-Man alluded to the fact that Wolverine was faster than he was.
-Wolverine manages to hit/slash Spider-Man on a regular basis.
-able to hit Nighcrawler in between teleports on a regular basis.(reflexes)

Durability/Toughness: Nothing much needs to be said about this.

Feats:

-taken punches from Hulk and not been knocked out.
-gets shot 1,000's of times and ignores it.
-fights on despite being impaled.
-Hit by a stealth bomber at full speed and gets back up unharmed.
-jumped off SHIELD Helicarrier and fell thousands of feet, crashing into a building, and gets riht back up.


Fighting Experience:

Wolverine started cage fighting around the year 1900. During this time he was able to take out experienced fighters (Smitty) who had oriental MA training with ease.

So roughly over 100 years of fighting experience.
We'll give Batman...15-20.

Training:

-Wolverine trained under Ogun before WW2. Samurai, Ninja, and massive amounts of other Oriental Martial Arts styles.
-Wolverine recieved basic military training/special forces training as a part of his service in WW1 AND 2.
-During WW2 Wolverine fights beter against Hand Ninjas than Captain America.
-Wolverine recieves CIA, Secret Service, black ops/special ops, assassin training in his tme with the government.
-taught Kitty Pryde fighting style of Israeli Special Forces.
-Wolverine spends more time in the Danger Room than any other X-Man, usually with all safeties turned off.

Batman: went on a training trip for about a decade. He did not spend the entire time learning to fight. He had to break down his trip, learning science, detective skils, escape artistry, etc.

As far as actual fighting ability is concerned Batman is not better than Wolverine. It would make no sense if he were. And even this is beside the point. Wolverine beat Ogun twice simply by going berserk. Ogun (arguably greatest MA in Marvel) was completely helpless against Wolverine. Wolverine is however very skilled, able to easily take down the likes of Shang-Chi Master of Kunf Fu in about 3 moves.

Any way you spin it, UberBat loses.

bitca730
Wolverine wins...

Dynamic One
Wolverine is one of the most inconsistently written characters. That is just due to lazy writing point blank. Examples given are wolverine being able to take hulk punches but getting ko'ed by a bat from the punisher. Both are cases of stupid writing, PIS on wolverine's part. If done right wolverine is somewhere in between. Hard to knock out due to his healing factor, but not impossible. The reason wolverine shouldn't be able to take hulk punches is because knock outs are caused by your brain getting rattled against your skull by a sharp vibration. Hence why concussions cause knockouts. One of the things about metal is that its a very good conductor especially of vibrations. So when logan gets his dome tapped by hulk it should very well liquify the organs in his body. However on the other hand wolverine shouldnt be getting knocked out by a swing away from the punisher. Getting back to the point however, wolverine has years of combat experience over slade, the kind of combat that slade is used to. Wolverine is way faster than bats, too many speed feats to deny that. The only way Bats could win is if he found out a way to use the envirmoment to his advantage. So it's not impossible for bats to win, but for all you fanboys trying to set up the death by bat kick scenario, wow you suck.

wolverine takes this 6/10

riceroost
Originally posted by Dynamic One
If done right wolverine is somewhere in between. Wolverine has taken punches from the Hulk way too many times to discount it as an example. He constantly shakes off blows from other people with class 100 strength like Wendigo, Namor, Colossus, etc.

riceroost
I also fail to understand how Wolverine ony wins 6/10 when he has 90 years experience over Bruce and knows 5 Martial Arts styles for every 1 Bats knows.

That's like me splitting with Ken Shamrock at age 10 with 4 years of tai-jitsu under my belt.

Batman should be a novice compared to Wolverine.

jinzin
wolverine.. but only because of his bones and mutant powers.

who?-kid
Wolverine wins.

srankmissingnin
Even sans healing factor and claws Wolverine would get the majority of wins.

jinzin
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Even sans healing factor and claws Wolverine would get the majority of wins.

yyyeahhiiiII don't know about that...

CaptainStoic
Originally posted by Solidus Snake
batman is not stupid. when he realizes taht wolvie can take super human level damage, he'll take out wolvies eyes. ear bang him to pop his eardrums (repeatedly)and give him nerve strikes to immobilize him.


bats is faster than wolvie. how do i know this? wolvie is a damage magnet. in the beginning of a fight (b4 the berzerker mode kicks in) u feel he intentionally goes out to get sliced and diced or shot up because he knows he'll survive? no. wolverine is a damage magnet cause he cant move fast enough. batman as i said will blind him, deafen him, either stay downwind or bloody up his nose to mask his scent. then he'll take him apart.

even if wolvie had his claws i feel this would happen. i dont think wolvie would win. hed land afew hits on bats before bats realized what he was.


batman's most dangerous weapon is his mind. theres no way hes gonna brawl with a man who can take wolverine level damage.


laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud
Yeah and Logan is gonna stand there while he does all of this right?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by jinzin
yyyeahhiiiII don't know about that...

Bruce is out classed jinzin

jinzin
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bruce is out classed jinzin

I still don't know about that...

samishe
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine kills Batman. There is no way Batman stands a chance against him.

Physical Stats:

All of Wolverine's physical abilities are beyond peak human.

Strength: never been clearly determined, but it is way more than Bat's

Feats:
-Punched Rogue through a brick wall.
-Knocked out Roughouse with punches. (level 5 durability)
-Drop Kicked Hulk to the ground.
-Thrown Colossus (500 lbs.) with enough force to knock over the Juggernaut.
-Lifted up 7-10 mercenaries with one arm.
-Breaks chains designed to hold large animals like Bulls or Elephants.

Speed: again, never clearly determined, but it is well beyond human.

Feats:

-chases down wild animals.
-moves faster than human eyes can follow.
-able to dodge automatic gunfire from several shooters.
-Spider-Man alluded to the fact that Wolverine was faster than he was.
-Wolverine manages to hit/slash Spider-Man on a regular basis.
-able to hit Nighcrawler in between teleports on a regular basis.(reflexes)

Durability/Toughness: Nothing much needs to be said about this.

Feats:

-taken punches from Hulk and not been knocked out.
-gets shot 1,000's of times and ignores it.
-fights on despite being impaled.
-Hit by a stealth bomber at full speed and gets back up unharmed.
-jumped off SHIELD Helicarrier and fell thousands of feet, crashing into a building, and gets riht back up.


Fighting Experience:

Wolverine started cage fighting around the year 1900. During this time he was able to take out experienced fighters (Smitty) who had oriental MA training with ease.

So roughly over 100 years of fighting experience.
We'll give Batman...15-20.

Training:

-Wolverine trained under Ogun before WW2. Samurai, Ninja, and massive amounts of other Oriental Martial Arts styles.
-Wolverine recieved basic military training/special forces training as a part of his service in WW1 AND 2.
-During WW2 Wolverine fights beter against Hand Ninjas than Captain America.
-Wolverine recieves CIA, Secret Service, black ops/special ops, assassin training in his tme with the government.
-taught Kitty Pryde fighting style of Israeli Special Forces.
-Wolverine spends more time in the Danger Room than any other X-Man, usually with all safeties turned off.

Batman: went on a training trip for about a decade. He did not spend the entire time learning to fight. He had to break down his trip, learning science, detective skils, escape artistry, etc.

As far as actual fighting ability is concerned Batman is not better than Wolverine. It would make no sense if he were. And even this is beside the point. Wolverine beat Ogun twice simply by going berserk. Ogun (arguably greatest MA in Marvel) was completely helpless against Wolverine. Wolverine is however very skilled, able to easily take down the likes of Shang-Chi Master of Kunf Fu in about 3 moves.

Any way you spin it, UberBat loses.

Wolverine wins.

But... faster than human eye can detect?no
Faster than Spider-man. So VERY VERY no
Again, Spider-man says a lot of things.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by jinzin
I still don't know about that...

Bruce isn't even peak human in ever aspect and Wolverine is at the very least his equal in skill (I think Wolverine is better but I'll throw Batman a bone). Even with out his healing factor Wolverine has better damage soak then Bruce and he is still a) faster and b) stronger.

batdude123
For everybody who's not giving Batman's skills their credit and who think that Wolverine could beat him w/o his adamantium and healing factor:

Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.

Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.

This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.

From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.

The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.

Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.

The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.

batdude123
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bruce isn't even peak human in ever aspect and Wolverine is at the very least his equal in skill (I think Wolverine is better but I'll throw Batman a bone). Even with out his healing factor Wolverine has better damage soak then Bruce and he is still a) faster and b) stronger.

When has Wolverine ever done something as impressive as kicking a huge tree down with one kick?

jinzin
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bruce isn't even peak human in ever aspect and Wolverine is at the very least his equal in skill (I think Wolverine is better but I'll throw Batman a bone). Even with out his healing factor Wolverine has better damage soak then Bruce and he is still a) faster and b) stronger.

I always thought his speed and strength were attributes that he had inherited due to his mutant powers... without em I don't think he'd be near as fast or strong.. but that's just MO... however I DO think batman is superior in h2h skill...

jinzin
Originally posted by batdude123
When has Wolverine ever done something as impressive as kicking a huge tree down with one kick?

he's kicked the hulk down... confused

CaptainStoic
But it's true Wolverine would beat Batman a lot like Slade beat him... C'mon admit it!

jinzin
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
But it's true Wolverine would beat Batman a lot like Slade beat him... C'mon admit it!

already did...

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by jinzin
I always thought his speed and strength were attributes that he had inherited due to his mutant powers... without em I don't think he'd be near as fast or strong.. but that's just MO... however I DO think batman is superior in h2h skill...

Wolverine was once forced to fight Arcangel with out his mutant abilities and he avoided every one of Arcangel feathers. He seems to still have superhuman attributes even with out his mutant healing factor.

GODSCRIBE
Originally posted by batdude123
For everybody who's not giving Batman's skills their credit and who think that Wolverine could beat him w/o his adamantium and healing factor:

Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.

Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.

This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.

From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.

The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.

Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.

The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.

Jesus Christ, you need some fresh air.

Wolverine wins 10/10

batdude123
Originally posted by jinzin
he's kicked the hulk down... confused

Touche!

jinzin
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine was once forced to fight Arcangel with out his mutant abilities and he avoided every one of Arcangel feathers. He seems to still have superhuman attributes even with out his mutant healing factor.
hmm interesting... I'm still trying to rationalize how wolverine's body may change due to a loss of super powers...

for instance, were he to grow up with the same training etc but NEVER had the mutant super powers to begin with could he have produced the same feat? did he retain SOME amount od his superstrength while his powers were in a dormant state? I don't know.. but that's the question isn't it?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by jinzin
hmm interesting... I'm still trying to rationalize how wolverine's body may change due to a loss of super powers...

for instance, were he to grow up with the same training etc but NEVER had the mutant super powers to begin with could he have produced the same feat? did he retain SOME amount od his superstrength while his powers were in a dormant state? I don't know.. but that's the question isn't it?

I always just assumed his attributes where enhanced by his intense training. Ogun was a human himself but he was said to be strong enough to kill a Buffalo with a casual slap... I figured Wolverine's superhuman stats stemed from his training with Ogun.

riceroost
Originally posted by samishe
Wolverine wins.
But... faster than human eye can detect?no
Faster than Spider-man. So VERY VERY no
Again, Spider-man says a lot of things.
Frank Tieri's run on Wolverine. Wolverine is surrounded by 5-7 guys with their guns drawn and aimed at Wolverine. Suddenly all their guns fall apart in their hands. Wolverine slashed all the guns so fast they didn't know he had moved.

SvsW#1: Spider-Man said Wolverine was faster than him.
Marvel Team-Up: Wolverine nails Spider-Man a couple of times no problem.
Spider-Man: Perceptions - Wolverine grabs Spider-Man by the throat and slams him into a tree before he can do anything about it.
Marvel Knights Spider-Man: Spidey webs Wolverine to a wall and Wolverine rips apart the webbing, launches at Spider-Man and slashes him across the stomach before Spidey can move.

Spider-Man is more AGILE than Wolverine, but their Speed seems pretty close.

batdude123
Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Jesus Christ, you need some fresh air.

Wolverine wins 10/10

I never said that Wolverine wouldn't win. Under normal circumstances, I guarantee that Wolverine would win almost every time. I'm sayin that w/o any of Wolverine's mutant powers, Batman would perhaps win the majority. Did you actually even read the whole thing anyway?

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
When has Wolverine ever done something as impressive as kicking a huge tree down with one kick?

wolverine pick up a huge tree looking thing like a base ball bat and hitting a creature of pure energy.
http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anotherstrengthfeat7pr.jpg


this is more impressive

batdude123
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I always just assumed his attributes where enhanced by his intense training. Ogun was a human himself but he was said to be strong enough to kill a Buffalo with a casual slap... I figured Wolverine's superhuman stats stemed from his training with Ogun.

Ogun was far from a human.

jinzin
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I always just assumed his attributes where enhanced by his intense training. Ogun was a human himself but he was said to be strong enough to kill a Buffalo with a casual slap... I figured Wolverine's superhuman stats stemed from his training with Ogun.

hmm this could be true I hadn't considered this.

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
For everybody who's not giving Batman's skills their credit and who think that Wolverine could beat him w/o his adamantium and healing factor:

Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.

Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.

This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.

From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.

The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.

Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.

The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it. Wolverine knows all this, and he's had 100 more years than Bruce to learn everything else about fighting Bruce didn't learn.

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine pick up a huge tree looking thing like a base ball bat and hitting a creature of pure energy.
http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anotherstrengthfeat7pr.jpg


this is more impressive

Not even close. Kicking down a tree is WAY more impressive. But Wolverine is strongers cause he kicked down the Hulk. THAT is more impressive than kicking down the tree, not picking one up.

capt it up
Originally posted by jinzin
hmm this could be true I hadn't considered this.
naw his superhuman abilkties im pritty sure all from his powers.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by batdude123
Ogun was far from a human.

Ogun (like Stick) has surpassed everything considered to be the realm of humanly possible through training alone. He, like Wolverine, was born a human.

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
Not even close. Kicking down a tree is WAY more impressive. But Wolverine is strongers cause he kicked down the Hulk. THAT is more impressive than kicking down the tree, not picking one up.
pick a tree up and swinging it like a abse ball bat is more impressive then kicking one down in my oppion.

batdude123
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine knows all this, and he's had 100 more years than Bruce to learn everything else about fighting Bruce didn't learn.

Dude, did you even read all of this? Cause I seriously doubt you did. Wolverine's experience doesn't necessarily means he's a better martial artist. Wolverine fighting consits mainly of him hacking and slashing aimlessly like a wild animal. When has Wolverine demonstrated Haragei, Sakki, Kiai, Chi, the Tiger Fist (Which only two people in the WORLD know and Batman is one of them), or has been able to force his presence on others (much like the Wrath of God)?

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
pick a tree up and swinging it like a abse ball bat is more impressive then kicking one down in my oppion.

I gaurentee that it takes more strength to kick one down, but don't worry, I'm acknowledging that Wolverine is stronger. big grin

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
Dude, did you even read all of this? Cause I seriously doubt you did. Wolverine's experience doesn't necessarily means he's a better martial artist. Wolverine fighting consits mainly of him hacking and slashing aimlessly like a wild animal. When has Wolverine demonstrated Haragei, Sakki, Kiai, Chi, the Tiger Fist (Which only two people in the WORLD know and Batman is one of them), or has been able to force his presence on others (much like the Wrath of God)?
see u do know kow what ur talken about. wolverine aim and slash are perfect and he created his own style.
u honestly don't read wolverine so i don't know why i bothering

batdude123
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Ogun (like Stick) has surpassed everything considered to be the realm of humanly possible through training alone. He, like Wolverine, was born a human.

... And then he turned into a powerful sorceror who lived for a thousands years and he could bind others to his will and could possess other people's bodies.

riceroost
Originally posted by capt it up
naw his superhuman abilkties im pritty sure all from his powers. Wolverine does retain a measure of enhanced speed and strength when he doesn't have his powers. He still took out 4 guards during Extinction Agenda with an inhibitor collar on. And that was only using his legs. His hands were manacled to his back. Even when Wolverine didn't have enhanced strength he was supposed to be a hell of a lot stronger than any normal man. He tossed Colossus at the Juggernaut hard enough to knock him over. This was before Wolverine was supposed to have Enhanced Strength, and he was chucking around 500lb Colossus like he was a rag doll.

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
see u do know kow what ur talken about. wolverine aim and slash are perfect and he created his own style.
u honestly don't read wolverine so i don't know why i bothering

I do read Wolverine. Don't assume that I don't. Let's try and not make this personal here. They're just comics for God's sake. Anyway, as of late, Wolverine hasn't shown any amount of skill that would put him on Batman's level of skill, regardless of what the stupidass handbooks say.

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
Dude, did you even read all of this? Cause I seriously doubt you did. Wolverine's experience doesn't necessarily means he's a better martial artist. Wolverine fighting consits mainly of him hacking and slashing aimlessly like a wild animal. Wolverine beat Ogun twice wailing away like an animal. Didn't even use an ounce of skill. Who needs to know all that bat mumbo jumbo when your natural ability to brawl is better than all the skills of the world's greatest martial artist?

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
Anyway, as of late, Wolverine hasn't shown any amount of skill that would put him on Batman's level of skill, regardless of what the stupidass handbooks say. That's because we get morons like Millar writing the book who don't know jack about the character. If it was Claremont you see him using his skill to make people like Rogue and Colossus look like rank amateurs.

batdude123
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine beat Ogun twice wailing away like an animal. Didn't even use an ounce of skill. Who needs to know all that bat mumbo jumbo when your natural ability to brawl is better than all the skills of the world's greatest martial artist?

So you admit that Wolverine doesn't know all that other stuff? big grin I think it's kind of funny that you chose to omit the other stuff I posted. laughing

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by batdude123
Dude, did you even read all of this? Cause I seriously doubt you did. Wolverine's experience doesn't necessarily means he's a better martial artist. Wolverine fighting consits mainly of him hacking and slashing aimlessly like a wild animal. When has Wolverine demonstrated Haragei, Sakki, Kiai, Chi, the Tiger Fist (Which only two people in the WORLD know and Batman is one of them), or has been able to force his presence on others (much like the Wrath of God)?

Maybe Batman just has a lot of Charisma? You don't need to be a massively skilled person to exert your will over people, just being confident is usually enough.

Has Wolverine ever shown the use of Haragei? Maybe. He has send animals running just by looking at them (dogs, wolves, bears ect) and had spiritual battles with ancient forest spirits. And ontop of that people, even his friends are generally scared of having physical confrontations with him.

jinzin
yeah see this is why I was hesitant to say wolverine wins.. batmans skills concerning "the shadow warrior" stuff seems pretty daunting...

batdude123
Originally posted by jinzin
yeah see this is why I was hesitant to say wolverine wins.. batmans skills concerning "the shadow warrior" stuff seems pretty daunting...

Exactly. yes See, I'm not for one minute trying to say that Wolverine would lose to Batman under normal circumstances. I'm saying that if Batman didn't have any gadgets and if Wolverine didn't have ANY of his mutant powers, then more than likely Batman would win in a fight. I mean, Batman has taken down Solomon Grundy with use of pressure points. When have we seen Wolverine use pressure points ever?

riceroost
Originally posted by jinzin
yeah see this is why I was hesitant to say wolverine wins.. batmans skills concerning "the shadow warrior" stuff seems pretty daunting... Wolverine knows plenty of "Shadow Warrior" crap too. He was able to turn invisible in a wide open field in broad daylight while Nightcrawler was looking right at him.

But anyway as I clearly illustrated:

Wolverine's Brawl>>>better than all the skills of the world's greatest fighter. If Wolverine actually used his crazy skill sit would be rediculously bad for Bats.

jinzin
Originally posted by batdude123
Exactly. yes See, I'm not for one minute trying to say that Wolverine would lose to Batman under normal circumstances. I'm saying that if Batman didn't have any gadgets and if Wolverine didn't have ANY of his mutant powers, then more than likely Batman would win in a fight. I mean, Batman has taken down Solomon Grundy with use of pressure points. When have we seen Wolverine use pressure points ever?

in a training session with kity pride.. though the force with which he used them destroyed the metal dummy he was practicing on...

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by batdude123
When have we seen Wolverine use pressure points ever?

Wolverine mini where L.L & L sent him to another demension.

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
I do read Wolverine. Don't assume that I don't. Let's try and not make this personal here. They're just comics for God's sake. Anyway, as of late, Wolverine hasn't shown any amount of skill that would put him on Batman's level of skill, regardless of what the stupidass handbooks say.
he killed 5,000 hand ninja with out taking a hit.
he beat winter soldier while his ahnds were chain up
he cut off silver sam hand.

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
When have we seen Wolverine use pressure points ever? Shows what you know. Wolverine uses pressure points all the time. The first time he met Rogue he used rpressure points and nerve holds in an attempt to put her down without stabbing her.

batdude123
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine knows plenty of "Shadow Warrior" crap too. He was able to turn invisible in a wide open field in broad daylight while Nightcrawler was looking right at him.

But anyway as I clearly illustrated:

Wolverine's Brawl>>>better than all the skills of the world's greatest fighter. If Wolverine actually used his crazy skill sit would be rediculously bad for Bats.

The only reason that Wolverine can beat people by simply out brawling with them, is because of his healing factor, his adamantium bones, and his claws. Take away all of his mutant powers including his adamantium bones, and he's just a fury little runt with above average strength. Batman would win under all those circumstances.

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
Exactly. yes See, I'm not for one minute trying to say that Wolverine would lose to Batman under normal circumstances. I'm saying that if Batman didn't have any gadgets and if Wolverine didn't have ANY of his mutant powers, then more than likely Batman would win in a fight. I mean, Batman has taken down Solomon Grundy with use of pressure points. When have we seen Wolverine use pressure points ever?
wolverien has kill ogun.
wolverine has fought stick and stick was unable to land a blow once wolverine figured out it was stick.
both of these guys would tool grundy.
wolverine also defeated shang-chi easiliy.
has defeated razor-fist and a number of other master fighters such as mist-x who beat both DD and capt and siad they sucked.

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
wolverien ahs kill ogun.
wolverine has foguht stick and stick was unable to land a blow once wolverine figured out it was stick.
both of these guys would tool grundy.
wolverine also defeated shang-chi easiliy.

If I remeber correctly, Ogun LET Wolverine stab him.

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
If I remeber correctly, Ogun LET Wolverine stab him.
u remeber inccorectly

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
Take away all of his mutant powers including his adamantium bones, and he's just a fury little runt with above average strength. Batman would win under all those circumstances. You obviously choose to ignore Wolverine's better than Captain America experience and the fact that he trained with a freakin sorceror. Bats only trained for 10 years and he wasn't even fighting the whole time. Only is fantasy land could someone believe that 10 years of training could top a century.

batdude123
Originally posted by riceroost
You obviously choose to ignore Wolverine's better than Captain America experience and the fact that he trained with a freakin sorceror. Bats only trained for 10 years and he wasn't even fighting the whole time. Only is fantasy land could someone believe that 10 years of training could top a century.

Batman has 20 years of experience. And having more experience means dick unless you spent those extra years well and with better training.

jinzin
Originally posted by riceroost
You obviously choose to ignore Wolverine's better than Captain America experience and the fact that he trained with a freakin sorceror. Bats only trained for 10 years and he wasn't even fighting the whole time. Only is fantasy land could someone believe that 10 years of training could top a century.

well no offense... but this IS fantasy leand we're talking about... (remembers DC's theory on batman and wolverine not being able to learn all forms of martial arts given their lifespans..)

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
Batman has 20 years of experience. And having more experience means dick unless you spent those extra years well and with better training.
wolverine spent eyars of his lfie with the best martial artest to ever live and then he spent years ina village full of the best ninjas

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine spent eyars of his lfie with the best martial artest to ever live and then he spent years ina village full of the best ninjas

Yes, I've heard it all before, but when does Wolverine actually use his martial art abilities? And btw, Wolverine doesn't know all the martial arts in the world.

jinzin
Originally posted by batdude123
Yes, I've heard it all before, but when does Wolverine actually use his martial art abilities? And btw, Wolverine doesn't know all the martial arts in the world.

quite frequently actually...

capt it up
Originally posted by jinzin
quite frequently actually...
yup

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
And btw, Wolverine doesn't know all the martial arts in the world. It states on just about all his bios that he has mastered every form of combat on earth.

Superherovandal
not really its more of a sliceand roar at the enemy. He doesnt show half the skill Bats does. without any powers it'd be bats 8/10 and wolve at most 2/10

batdude123
Originally posted by riceroost
It states on just about all his bios that he has mastered every form of combat on earth.

1) It doesn't say EVERY SINGLE one, it says VIRTUALLY every one.
2) Do you think he knows Baranta? That's a Hungarian martial art. Has he actually been do Hungary to perfect this art?
3) As proved by Dark Crawler before, Hand Books realy mean jack sh*t compared to actual comics.

batdude123
Originally posted by Superherovandal
not really its more of a sliceand roar at the enemy. He doesnt show half the skill Bats does. without any powers it'd be bats 8/10 and wolve at most 2/10

THANK YOU! yes big grin

srankmissingnin
Personally I just don't see Batman being a match for Wolverine. Wolverine saved Captain America's ass and then beat the crap out of the hand ninjas who owned Cap with ease. Now in Marvel Captain America is supposed to be the best, Zartan the Weaponsmaster when he was trying to earn respect after getting beat by Shang Chi said he needed to beat someone who was Shang Chi's superior... so he challenged Cap. The closest you can get to Shang Chi in DC is Richard Dragon (or Shiva) both of whom are more skilled the Bruce... and Shang Chi's own villians think Cap is better then he is. The fact is Wolverine is the best of the best while Batman... he just isn't.

Superherovandal
Wolverine isn't the best of the best at all. He has powers that help him. Enhanced speed, strength, hearing, healing, etc. without that he'd be a good martial artist but not able to take Bats at all.

batdude123
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Personally I just don't see Batman being a match for Wolverine. Wolverine saved Captain America's ass and then beat the crap out of the hand ninjas who owned Cap with ease. Now in Marvel Captain America is supposed to be the best, Zartan the Weaponsmaster when he was trying to earn respect after getting beat by Shang Chi said he needed to beat someone who was Shang Chi's superior... so he challenged Cap. The closest you can get to Shang Chi in DC is Richard Dragon (or Shiva) both of whom are more skilled the Bruce... and Shang Chi's own villians think Cap is better then he is. The fact is Wolverine is the best of the best while Batman... he just isn't.

How can you compare Shang Chi to Richard Dragon?! erm

batdude123
Originally posted by Superherovandal
Wolverine isn't the best of the best at all. He has powers that help him. Enhanced speed, strength, hearing, healing, etc. without that he'd be a good martial artist but not able to take Bats at all.

yes

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by batdude123
How can you compare Shang Chi to Richard Dragon?! erm

...

Shang Chi, even with out his ability to amp his stats to compeat with Spider-man would, at the very least, stalemate Richard Dragon.

batdude123
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

Shang Chi, even with out his ability to amp his stats to compeat with Spider-man would, at the very least, stalemate Richard Dragon.

Nah! stick out tongue

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by batdude123
Nah! stick out tongue

Yeah

bherrle
Batman would get his a$$ handed to him, and I'm a Batman fan... but there's not a snowball's chance in Hades that Bruce could beat Logan.

Crush his larynx? Gouge his eyes? PLEASE! Wolverine can take blows from the Hulk... one punch from the Hulk and Batman would be a memory.

Sorry guys, Wolverine wins 10/10, and that's being generous to Batman.

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
1) It doesn't say EVERY SINGLE one, it says VIRTUALLY every one.
2) Do you think he knows Baranta? That's a Hungarian martial art. Has he actually been do Hungary to perfect this art?
3) As proved by Dark Crawler before, Hand Books realy mean jack sh*t compared to actual comics. I do know that Wolverine knows more than Batman. Ha! Wolverine knows alien martial arts too. He knows magic martial arts, twister martial arts and even connect 4!!

Superherovandal
nobody actually thinks that bats could take Wolvie we're talking about if we took away all of Wolvies powers.

Superherovandal
not alien ones. and Bats knows kryptonian ones too.

riceroost
Shang Chi > Richard Dragon.

Superherovandal
without his ability to boost his stats? not really.

batdude123
Originally posted by riceroost
Shang Chi > Richard Dragon.

Richard Dragon > Shang Chi.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Superherovandal
without his ability to boost his stats? not really.


Even when he was 14 he was taking on groups of trained assassins and making sutble movements so fast that the assassins couldn't even catch them (and thats sans chi amping). He is a monster he fights groups of monks that know every martial art style at the same time and he wins.

brainchild81
That growing in people's minds stuff should have an"*" next to it that stands for "can only be done to the weak minded or stupid". He's not doing that to Wolvie. He'd get punched dead in the mouth just for trying that crap on Logan.

batdude123
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Even when he was 14 he was taking on groups of trained assassins and making sutble movements so fast that the assassins couldn't even catch them (and thats sans chi amping). He is a monster he fights groups of monks that know every martial art style at the same time and he wins.

Read what Richard Dragon is capable of, and then come back and talk. wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dragon

riceroost
Originally posted by Superherovandal
nobody actually thinks that bats could take Wolvie we're talking about if we took away all of Wolvies powers. Wolverine would have to win since there is no way Batman could possible have anywhere near the amount of martial arts learning and knowledge that Wolverine has. Only way Bats could be remotely as skilled as Logan would be if Wolverine was stuck in storage for the extra 90 years of training he went through. And even then Wolverine would probably win because you dont eff with the diciple of Ogun. It's just not done.

Just because Wolverine isn't written as Musashi on crack, doesn't mean he doesn't have the knowledge. He does. It's a fact. Most writers just like to ignore it because it would be no fun if Wolverine just killed Daredevil, Cap, Elektra, Shang-Chi, and the Silver Samurai. If Wolverine were written to his skills (As Batman has to be or Batman will die.) the Marvel Universe would lose a good 60% of it's characters just in fights with Wolverine alone.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by batdude123
Read what Richard Dragon is capable of, and then come back and talk. wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dragon

Yeah I've already read what Richard Dragon is capable, from comics noless... so I doubt that will make a difference.

riceroost
Originally posted by batdude123
Richard Dragon > Shang Chi. BAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! THOUGH SHALT NOT SCREW WITH THE MASTER OF KUNG FU!!!!! Shang-Chi has a cooler name, therefor he wins.

Superherovandal
yeah but he never shows his prowness. Bats has done far more impressive martial arts feats than Wolvie ever has. like mastering the Leopard Blow a move that only Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva know.

batdude123
Originally posted by Superherovandal
yeah but he never shows his prowness. Bats has done far more impressive martial arts feats than Wolvie ever has. like mastering the Leopard Blow a move that only Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva know.

And don't forget the Tiger Fist. Only he and ONE more person on earth know that move.

riceroost
Originally posted by Superherovandal
yeah but he never shows his prowness. Bats has done far more impressive martial arts feats than Wolvie ever has. like mastering the Leopard Blow a move that only Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva know. Wolverine has mastered claw thrust. Much better and far more effective than Leapard Blow. Wolverine is the deadliest man on the planet. Batman does not share that distinction is DC.

batdude123
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine has mastered claw thrust. Much better and far more effective than Leapard Blow. Wolverine is the deadliest man on the planet. Batman does not share that distinction is DC.

Read the last part of this paragraph and then tell me that it's more powerful. And just to remind you, we're discussing a Wolverine w/o any of his mutant powers. That includes his claws.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

brainchild81
Originally posted by batdude123
Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Originally posted by brainchild81
That growing in people's minds stuff should have an"*" next to it that stands for "can only be done to the weak minded or stupid". He's not doing that to Wolvie. He'd get punched dead in the mouth just for trying that crap on Logan.

batdude123
Originally posted by brainchild81


I never said he would do that to Wolverine. He does that while he's in the shadows, not when somebody is fighting him. You already posted that and we're off that subject anyway. And if you choose to ignore the rest of the gigantic post, that's fine. I realize that it hurts your arguement, so you can ignore it if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he can do all that stuff.

brainchild81
I'd like to see him grow in the mind of someone noteworthy. Him being in shadows makes no difference. Any scans? The rest of the stuff is great and made sense to me, that's why I didn't speak on it. I've ignored nothing. I still don't think he has enough of what it takes to beat Wolvie though. Doesn't hurt my argument @ all

batdude123
Originally posted by brainchild81
I'd like to see him grow in the mind of someone noteworthy. Him being in shadows makes no difference. Any scans? The rest of the stuff is great and made sense to me, that's why I didn't speak on it. I've ignored nothing. I still don't think he has enough of what it takes to beat Wolvie though. Doesn't hurt my argument @ all

Are you saying that w/o ANY of Wolverine's mutant powers, he could stand up to a tiger fist?

brainchild81
@ first you said "no healing or adbones". That version simply wouldn't get hit by that move. Without any powers @ all though, Bats should win

batdude123
Originally posted by brainchild81
@ first you said "no healing or adbones". That version simply wouldn't get hit by that move. Without any powers @ all though, Bats should win

Well, sorry if I didn't "word" it correctly, but that's what we are arguing, Wolverine w/o any powers. Some people are saying that even if Wolverine didn't have his powers, he would still beat Batman. laughing

CaptainStoic
Wolverine can track people over miles, it doesn't matter if Batman hides in a shadow, he'll soon find his ass on the razors edge. What's even funnier is that there would be no where for him to run that Logan wouldn't catch him. Do you remember what happend when he tried that BS on Slade? Oh I remember he got knocked the hell out. And Logans very finger tip could be considered as weapons, his bones are laced with Adamantium.

batdude123
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Wolverine can track people over miles, it doesn't matter if Batman hides in a shadow, he'll soon find his ass on the razors edge. What's even funnier is that there would be no where for him to run that Logan wouldn't catch him. Do you remember what happend when he tried that BS on Slade? Oh I remember he got knocked the hell out. And Logans very finger tip could be considered as weapons, his bones are laced with Adamantium.

roll eyes (sarcastic) If you'd have been keeping track, this is Wolverine w/o any powers and w/o any adamantium. It's just a pure skill fight between the two.

CaptainStoic
Why is it that when it's time for Batman to get a spanking people are always saying take away this, and take away that. With Captain America it was the Serum, with Wolverine it's the claws, next it will be his healing factor, Batman would get it time and again from him, it would be so bad that whenever he heard that Logan was in town he'd take a vacation. I thought this thread stated no weapons? Healing is not a weapon.

batdude123
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Why is it that when it's time for Batman to get a spanking people are always saying take away this, and take away that. With Captain America it was the Serum, with Wolverine it's the claws, next it will be his healing factor, Batman would get it time and again from him, it would be so bad that whenever he heard that Logan was in town he'd take a vacation. I thought this thread stated no weapons? Healing is not a weapon.

We're discussing w/o Batman's weapons and w/o Logans mutant powers. Batman is just the more skilled of the two in fighting, period. I never said that under normal circumstances Batman would win, because he wouldn't. But under these stipulations, Batman would win.

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
We're discussing w/o Batman's weapons and w/o Logans mutant powers. Batman is just the more skilled of the two in fighting, period. I never said that under normal circumstances Batman would win, because he wouldn't. But under these stipulations, Batman would win.
how is batman more skilled? he has far less training, far less experience and yet he more skilled qestion?
hell even in wolverine last issue wolverine beat shiva with one attack so fast that shiva did not even realize it was beat.
\
by the way if u did not know this shiva is desighned to kill wolverine and has knowledge of all of weapon x fighting abilities. it also has healing factor superhuman strength durability reflex.

Soleran
Batman is only human, has always been only human and has pushed himself farther and harder then most other humans training (aside from me, derp derp.)

In my opinion Batman takes it, he's more familiar with his limits what they are and how far he can take it constantly. Wolverine more often then not has had tools he could fall back on ie healing and claws etc etc. Batman works past it all.

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
how is batman more skilled? he has far less training, far less experience and yet he more skilled qestion?
hell even in wolverine last issue wolverine beat shiva with one attack so fast that shiva did not even realize it was beat.
\
by the way if u did not know this shiva is desighned to kill wolverine and has knowledge of all of weapon x fighting abilities. it also has healing factor superhuman strength durability reflex.

Yeah, it's a good thing crossovers aren't cannon, huh? wink

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, it's a good thing crossovers aren't cannon, huh? wink

... What are you talking about?

Soleran
He means lady Shiva

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Shiva

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, it's a good thing crossovers aren't cannon, huh? wink
ya wtf are u talken about? did u even read what i said?

batdude123
Originally posted by capt it up
ya wtf are u talken about? did u even read what i said?

Yeah, and did you even read what I said? By your logic, Ogun (who has A LOT more experience then Wolverine) shouldn't have lost to Wolverine? Experience constitutes skill? That logic doesn't make sense considering Wolverine beat Ogun.

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, and did you even read what I said? By your logic, Ogun (who has A LOT more experience then Wolverine) shouldn't have lost to Wolverine? Experience constitutes skill? That logic doesn't make sense considering Wolverine beat Ogun.
ogun trained wolverine for years and also imprinted his skill ion to logan thats one of his powers if u did not know.

batdude123
Well, Ogun is only a master of 13 fighting styles including his own that he made, and yet, he's still a 7 in fighting. Interesting, huh?

Soleran
Wolverine has had his healing factor far to long to remember what its like to be "normal" everyday. Has been able to use his senses to enhance his fighting..........................on a flat playing ground the Bat takes it to him and hard having to live with just human limitations and overcoming so many obstacles.smile

capt it up
Originally posted by batdude123
Well, Ogun is only a master of 13 fighting styles including his own that he made, and yet, he's still a 7 in fighting. Interesting, huh?
actauly that was sword styles he amster many other martial arts.

capt it up
Originally posted by Soleran
Wolverine has had his healing factor far to long to remember what its like to be "normal" everyday. Has been able to use his senses to enhance his fighting..........................on a flat playing ground the Bat takes it to him and hard having to live with just human limitations and overcoming so many obstacles.smile
wolverien ahs ahd his pwoer stripped more then 3 times. hell he defeated sabertooth when he ahd not healign factor or powers and sabertooth had his powers.
'
so no logan would be quite fine

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