Dr. strange VS. Dr. fate & and current scarlet witch& zatanna

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colossus17
can they take out the sorcerer supreme....he gets 10 hours of prep they get non.....fight takes place in antarctica....

colossus17
where are all the strange fanboys... shifty

supremthor
strange is dead. Fate alone is on the same level as strange. the other two are below them in terms of skill and power.

colossus17
i am talking about strange when he attacked death and galactus......

long pig
Fate is a few tiny steps below Strange.

But yeah, it's possible for him to win, it depends on who he can beg power from during his prep.

If he invokes Eternity, and becomes his avatar again, he'd massacre them all.

ehhhhh, I'd say Fate's team wins 7/10, if Strange gets the advantage of suprise, it'd be 6/10.

colossus17
strange can use all his artifacts....and 10 hours of prep is enough......

long pig
Wanda's powers can't be controlled, not even by her so it's doubtful she'd be any help here, more likely she'd go against everyone.

Zatanna gets taken out the first second with a spell that makes her unable to talk. But, she could prove a good enough distraction for Fate to come in and blind side Strange, thus winning.

But, if he goes avatar, he stomps them all. 6-7/10 Fate's.

colossus17
fate is a p***y compared to strange....he is on a totally different level

jrodslam
Zatanna doesnt have to talk to do her spells. Shes not out in the first second. Shed last just as long as Fate.

leonidas
you beat me to it jr. and yeah, fate and zatanna alone would beat him under anything but very exceptional circumstances.

colossus17
NO

Cosmic Flame
Are we forgetting that Strange gets 10 HOURS of prep? Strange can hold his own against them w/o prep (not necessarily winning), but with that much prep time, I don't see any way for them to take him.

colossus17
thank you good sir.....the guy blasted galactus.....and challenged eternity and death......and even LT...he has the most will power i ever saw in any character.....he was banished into another universe by warlock with the IG and he just came back in a few sec.thanx to his will power.....

shaolin9976
Is Dr. Strange a god? He seems unstoppable in this forum!

colossus17
beware fool.....he does the same hand movements as the real "GOD".now if u can mimic spiderman's movements.then u have to be worthy....

long pig
Zatanna has to speak to commit a spell, you may say "yada yada yada someone said yada", doesn't matter, she's never caste a spell without speaking before so until she does, I'll stick to my earlier comment.

Zatanna gets taken out the first second, she isn't in either of Fate or Strange's league and she can be blasted away with a finger.



In the words of the Ancient One, "A god all but by blood"....so yeah, he basically is. He has every trait of a god including immortality.

Yes, he could take these three, not easily but he could. Giving prep to Strange is almost giving him a sure win.

And I thought you meant pre-crisis Fate, not the new guy.

Strange could go into the astral plane and beat all three of these without fear of being harmed.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
Zatanna has to speak to commit a spell, you may say "yada yada yada someone said yada", doesn't matter, she's never caste a spell without speaking before so until she does, I'll stick to my earlier comment.

Like was stated before, she doesnt have to speak the spell in order to do it. It just helps her to focus better. Its how she learned from her father. But becuase shes a natural born sorceror, she surpassed him in the fact that she doesnt have to recite the spells.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
Zatanna gets taken out the first second, she isn't in either of Fate or Strange's league and she can be blasted away with a finger.

Strange could go into the astral plane and beat all three of these without fear of being harmed.

Zatanna is in the same league as Fate. They are part of the most powerful group of mages and sorcerors on the planet. Which not everyone in the DCU is part of.

Strange going in astral form would be a wise idea against them. Reasons are because, Strange isnt as powerful in astral form as he is in normal form. Against Fate, Zatanna and Scarlet Witch, hed get finished.

Second, Fate and Zatanna are able to precieve things in astral projections. Not so sure about Scarlet however. There has also been times where Strange has been attacked of has his attacks stoped while in astral projection.

Strange alone has had a hard time vs Scarlet Witch. Combined with Fate and Zatanna is truly overkill.

Once again Strange loses. big grin

colossus17
no he dosent......i want to see any of them attack DEATH itself.....

EvilCap America
Dr.Strange vs Any Dr.Fate would be a good entertaining fight.Certain Fates could beat Strange others dont have it in them.The present Dr.Fate Hector Hall could match up well with him after the Princes of Darkness storyline but beforehand would lose easily

Zatanna is great and all but for all she can do Dr.Strange should still beather

Wanda is ok probably another notch below Zatanna.Current "Crappy storyline" Wanda is too illdefined and barely explored.Most likely shes gonna come out of the gates in the House of M storyline able to humble Galactus and 2 months after its done she will level out as the writers relize its a stupid idea

jrodslam
I agree with pretty much all you said EvilCap, but this is the 3 vs Strange alone. Fate alone has a chance to beat Srtange. Combined with Zatanna and Witchie, Strange loses bad.

I also agree about the HoM thing as well. Dam you Marvel!

kgkg
Originally posted by jrodslam
I agree with pretty much all you said EvilCap, but this is the 3 vs Strange alone. Fate alone has a chance to beat Srtange. Combined with Zatanna and Witchie, Strange loses bad.

I also agree about the HoM thing as well. Dam you Marvel!
Fate has a chance to beat Strange?

what are fate's power?

Superherovandal
he has the helmet of Nabu. He is the most powerful Sorcerer in DC. Besides the Lords of Order and Chaos but they are super-uber.

kgkg
Originally posted by Superherovandal
he has the helmet of Nabu. He is the most powerful Sorcerer in DC. Besides the Lords of Order and Chaos but they are super-uber.
i know he has the helmet

i mean what can he do?

Superherovandal
well......................... magic.

kgkg
Originally posted by Superherovandal
well......................... magic.
i know that do.

does he get power for demons and shit like that?

leonidas
<<no he dosent......i want to see any of them attack DEATH itself.....>>

dude, ANYONE could attack death! his attack did NOTHING. death got up and laughed at him. he knocked galactus down - again, so? g didn't even hit the ground. long loves strange, but i think he is a tad overrated here. these 3 would CERTAINLY beat him. (after all, enchantress and the executioner had him beat . . .)

and kg, he's got major energy control, matter manipulation, can create energy constructs a la green lantern. he's stronger than strange and can take a lot of punishment. over the years he has evolved into strange's counterpart in dc and is usually considered roughly strange's equal. he's even got and amulet and (last i checked) a creepy house with loads of books! a well written fate could definitely tackle strange alone and have a chance to win.

and no, he doesn't get power from demons - it all stems from his helmet, from nabu, a lord of order (which by the way seem to resemble in part the vishanti). fate's a force of balance, more than good though. i also think hector himself knows some basic magic stuff even without the helmet.

colossus17
how do u challenge and attack death.?..do u need to fill out a special form or an application or something?

leonidas
well, i suppose if you could travel interdimensionally as strange does, and had his knowledge, prolly isn't that hard to find death. after all, can't be too many robed skeletons wandering around . . .

Superherovandal
yeah and if so get me one so I can piss her off and get killed in a horrible fashion.

colossus17
yeah but it takes balls to attack abstract beings....and strange is no fool....he dosent attack for no reason....he wouldnt attack them all if didnt believe there is a small chance he could actually win.....or casue damage.....

Superherovandal
shouldn't death be above Eternity? I mean even Eternity dies in a verrrrrry long time. She should be wayyyyyyyyyy more powerful than Strange.

kgkg
Originally posted by leonidas
and kg, he's got major energy control, matter manipulation, can create energy constructs a la green lantern. he's stronger than strange and can take a lot of punishment. over the years he has evolved into strange's counterpart in dc and is usually considered roughly strange's equal. he's even got and amulet and (last i checked) a creepy house with loads of books! a well written fate could definitely tackle strange alone and have a chance to win.

and no, he doesn't get power from demons - it all stems from his helmet, from nabu, a lord of order (which by the way seem to resemble in part the vishanti). fate's a force of balance, more than good though. i also think hector himself knows some basic magic stuff even without the helmet.
major energy control, matter manipulation, can create energy constructs -a la green lantern ---------------- you got any scans you can show me issue numbers

Stonger that Strange you mean in hand to hand?

i don't know much about Fate , but can he take on say JLA?

Superherovandal
yeah he could.

kgkg
Originally posted by Superherovandal
yeah he could.
ok then he is a match for Stange.

Cosmic Flame
And yet we still haven't figured out how the three of them would take Strange w/him having 10 hours of prep. If they met each other crossing the street, that's one thing. But you're giving the Sorceror Supreme a 10 hour head start? I don't care who they are, they're going down.

jrodslam
Originally posted by kgkg
i know he has the helmet

i mean what can he do?

Fate can basically do the same things Strange can. I dont know every detaiol about him, but how Strange has cloak of levitation and eye of agamotto, Fate has the amulet of Anubis, cloak and helmet of Nabu.

I dont think Fate really uses the amulet because Nabu himself is treapped inside. Unless thats been changed.

From off the top of my head, i know Fate can cloak, jump dimentions, turn intangible, shoot magical bolts, super strength, invunerability, teleportation.

A main part of 'Sentinels of Magic' as well as "Lords of Order and Chaos"



I dont know of any Fate feats however.

leonidas
<<major energy control, matter manipulation, can create energy constructs -a la green lantern ---------------- you got any scans you can show me issue numbers>.

my dc books are at my brothers. i'll do some digging IF i ever get the damn things to my house! trust me, fate is a tough sum b!tch. he could take on the league, but i doubt he could beat them.

with prep, i still don't see strange winning. what can he do with prep? study spells? he knows most already. maybe with prep he puts 1, maybe 2 down before he falls (MAYBE!) but, imho he still can't win i don't think.

kgkg
Originally posted by leonidas
<<major energy control, matter manipulation, can create energy constructs -a la green lantern ---------------- you got any scans you can show me issue numbers>.

my dc books are at my brothers. i'll do some digging IF i ever get the damn things to my house! trust me, fate is a tough sum b!tch. he could take on the league, but i doubt he could beat them.

with prep, i still don't see strange winning. what can he do with prep? study spells? he knows most already. maybe with prep he puts 1, maybe 2 down before he falls (MAYBE!) but, imho he still can't win i don't think.
Ok I will take your word, and peeps here think he can take JLA which says a lot.

What can he do with strange do with Prep ? Anything Strange with prep , can trap powerful beings , unease great powers etc.

Strange has lots of balls : he has gone against Eternity , LT , Galactus , Mep , Dour etc

long pig
This wouldn't be a fight 3vs1 Strange with prep can invoke friggin millions of demons and hordes of oddities to fight with him.

Asking what Strange can do with prep is like asking what Doom can do with it, he can go from below herald to near omnipotence with enough prep.

He has protection spells(like the one he uses while he sleeps, it keeps him from being targeted by magical attacks) demon hordes under his control, illusions that can think for themselves, invoke eternity....the list goes on and on.

With prep, he can win this, not everytime but at most half at least 4/10.

About Zatanna, she is -potentially- very powerful, but right now, she's nothing. Her biggest feats aren't really her own feats, she used the power of others to do it...i.e the moon trick, the africa trick, the gotham city trick. And afterwards, she calapses in fatigue.

Zatanna may in the future be a magical powerhouse and able to caste spells without saying them, but now she can't. No matter what she says, obviously she can not do it very well if she keeps saying it backwards.
Remember when Slade punched her in the stomach? She couldn't do anything, why didn't she just caste him away? Cuz she can't yet.

Zatanna is dead the first second, so it'd be Fate and Wanda against an untouchable Strange and a few million demons. Hmmmmm....

Doesn't Fate lose his powers if his helmet comes off? Didn't Strange spank Wanda in the Avengers issue and mind wipe her while she struggled.

long pig
And the issue where you show Strange being beat by executioner and enchantress was either one of two things, it was around 88 when his powers were revoked, or he was totally blindsided while weakend.

I seriously doubt those two tackling Strange at full power knowing he was about to fight. And the shields "failing" is awful, those same shields have taken hits from an incarnation of Eternity, Death, Galactus, Hulk, Namor, Surfer and Gladiator without failing.

And he can make a shield that is three times as powerful as that with prep.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
This wouldn't be a fight 3vs1 Strange with prep can invoke friggin millions of demons and hordes of oddities to fight with him.

Asking what Strange can do with prep is like asking what Doom can do with it, he can go from below herald to near omnipotence with enough prep.

He has protection spells(like the one he uses while he sleeps, it keeps him from being targeted by magical attacks) demon hordes under his control, illusions that can think for themselves, invoke eternity....the list goes on and on.

With prep, he can win this, not everytime but at most half at least 4/10.

About Zatanna, she is -potentially- very powerful, but right now, she's nothing. Her biggest feats aren't really her own feats, she used the power of others to do it...i.e the moon trick, the africa trick, the gotham city trick. And afterwards, she calapses in fatigue.

Zatanna may in the future be a magical powerhouse and able to caste spells without saying them, but now she can't. No matter what she says, obviously she can not do it very well if she keeps saying it backwards.
Remember when Slade punched her in the stomach? She couldn't do anything, why didn't she just caste him away? Cuz she can't yet.

Zatanna is dead the first second, so it'd be Fate and Wanda against an untouchable Strange and a few million demons. Hmmmmm....

Doesn't Fate lose his powers if his helmet comes off? Didn't Strange spank Wanda in the Avengers issue and mind wipe her while she struggled.

Summoed demons will get banished, unless they are immune to all forms of magic as well. Which i doubt.

Zatanna cat cast spells without saying them? Look at the scan on the previous page. When Slade beat the JLA, why didnt Kyle just trap him in a construct? Beacuse he wanted to fight hand to hand. Why didnt Zatanna cast him away? Cause she was busy hurling her brains out. Why didnt she stop him right away? Cause that was crap writing. It happens.

She lasts longer that you may think. How is Strange going to get the Helmet off? It cant be removed. At least not by the likes of Strange.

Strange may have spanked Wanda before, but didnt Wanda also render him totaly helpless in the Order series? I believe so. Plus Strnge isnt mind controlling anyone in this fight, so that option is nulled.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
And the issue where you show Strange being beat by executioner and enchantress was either one of two things, it was around 88 when his powers were revoked, or he was totally blindsided while weakend.

I seriously doubt those two tackling Strange at full power knowing he was about to fight. And the shields "failing" is awful, those same shields have taken hits from an incarnation of Eternity, Death, Galactus, Hulk, Namor, Surfer and Gladiator without failing.

What are you talking about? Who showed an issue with Strange being attacked by exocutioner and enchantress?

colossus17
this is stupid he is the sorcerer.supreme......a god in human body.....he will punk them all with 10 hours of prep

long pig
Actually, the more I think about it, the better and better chance he has of winning. He just has too many things at his disposal to fight with.
If he invokes Eternity, it's over he wins 10/10. He's done it before, surely he can do it again, Eternity owes him a favor anyways.

Zatanna is a telepath on maaaybbeeee mid-level, Strange on the other hand is of the highest order when backed by the Eye, she dies as soon as he sees her. Or he simply banishes her into Deaths realm, or any realm.

Any transmorphication Fate or Zatanna can do, Strange can undo as he has with other matter manipulators.

Summoned demons will get banished? How? All of them? Doubtful.

How can Fate's helmet be taken off?
Simple, when he's wrapped up in unbreakable bands, Strange uses his TK to remove it, or has one of his millions of demons he can control do it. Remember, Fate is new to this whole Fate deal, he has far far less experience than Strange, a few thousand years less.

Nabu is Fate's backbone, that's all he has. Strange has taken on gods of that level on his own.

How will zatanna or fate know which Strange is the real Strange? His illusions fooled Loki and other high level mystics.

Wanda is a non factor, she can't control her powers and more than likely will hurt Strange and her own team, it's impossible to judge what she can do.

Exactly what happend in the Order series? evil face

kgkg
Originally posted by long pig
Actually, the more I think about it, the better and better chance he has of winning. He just has too many things at his disposal to fight with.
If he invokes Eternity, it's over he wins 10/10. He's done it before, surely he can do it again, Eternity owes him a favor anyways.

Zatanna is a telepath on maaaybbeeee mid-level, Strange on the other hand is of the highest order when backed by the Eye, she dies as soon as he sees her. Or he simply banishes her into Deaths realm, or any realm.

Any transmorphication Fate or Zatanna can do, Strange can undo as he has with other matter manipulators.

Summoned demons will get banished? How? All of them? Doubtful.

How can Fate's helmet be taken off?
Simple, when he's wrapped up in unbreakable bands, Strange uses his TK to remove it, or has one of his millions of demons he can control do it. Remember, Fate is new to this whole Fate deal, he has far far less experience than Strange, a few thousand years less.

Nabu is Fate's backbone, that's all he has. Strange has taken on gods of that level on his own.

How will zatanna or fate know which Strange is the real Strange? His illusions fooled Loki and other high level mystics.

Wanda is a non factor, she can't control her powers and more than likely will hurt Strange and her own team, it's impossible to judge what she can do.

Exactly what happend in the Order series? evil face
wow

long pig
Originally posted by jrodslam
What are you talking about? Who showed an issue with Strange being attacked by exocutioner and enchantress?

leo did, and it's rediculous.

long pig
Originally posted by colossus17
this is stupid he is the sorcerer.supreme......a god in human body.....he will punk them all with 10 hours of prep

PC Fate (who at first, I thought this thread was about)was at least equal to Strange, more likely his better in some aspects. The new one isn't, he's close, but just not there yet.

Giving Strange prep of this magnitude is nearly assuring the guy a win in almost any instance, especially when faced up against three lessers.

This is a quote from Wizard that I agree with totally.

ImmortalOne
I thought this thread is supposed to be more "exciting" considering the latest Fate vs Strange thread was so full of Fate fanboys

And whats more surprising is many of those Fate boys converted into Strange fans........... including myself !!

So..... Strange wins, and YEAH, Eternity will lend him power if he asked him/her (eternity is a shemale ??)

long pig
The Order #3:
The Avengers go on offense against The Order, they want to take out the most powerful one first, so they go after Strange, his teammates help him break free, Scarlet witch uses a surprise hex attack on Strange(he holds back the entire time), it worked for about two seconds until he decides not to hold back, then proceeds to spank their entire team.

Afterwards, he talks down to the Avengers like they were three year olds who had a tantrum.

Still not a very good written plot, the writers seem to forget about Strange's auto-defensive shields that are up 24/7.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
The Order #3:
The Avengers go on offense against The Order, they want to take out the most powerful one first, so they go after Strange, his teammates help him break free, Scarlet witch uses a surprise hex attack on Strange(he holds back the entire time), it worked for about two seconds until he decides not to hold back, then proceeds to spank their entire team.

Afterwards, he talks down to the Avengers like they were three year olds who had a tantrum.

Still not a very good written plot, the writers seem to forget about Strange's auto-defensive shields that are up 24/7.

Obviously you dont have that comic, cause that wasnt howit went at all. They didint decide to go after Strange first. Only Quicksilver went after Strange. Quicksilver! While he was distracted, Wanda then freed the Eye of Agamotto from Strange's control which took him out of the fight immediately.

No one else attacked Strange. Strange was not holding back at all. None of the Order were. The ONLY way Strange got free was by Surfer blasting Wanda, thus releasing her grip on the eye. Strange was besically out of the fight the whole time.. It was way longer than 2 seconds.

Its been proven that while Strange is distracted, he very vunerable. Him summoning an army would take valuable secons, and just get banished anyways.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
This is a quote from Wizard that I agree with totally.

Nice story. Too bad that wouldnt happen. Fate would be aware of Strange's presence. Hes not sneaking up on him by astral projection. Even if Fate didnt know where he was, he can go intangible and Fates blast wouldnt even touch him.

Another thing is the longer Strange is in astral form, he gets weaker. And theres no way hes removing the helmet. Ive seem Spectre do it, when in Pressence mode, but by noone else. Unless you can prove other wise.

long pig
The Eye deal was nifty, I thought it was pretty smart.

Quicksilver threw a snowball at Strange, it hit him, Strange has shields up 100% of the time, but writers sometimes forget that, or leave it out so the plot can move on.

With his shield up, none of that would have happend at all, do you seriously think he'd go into a fight with the Avengers without a shield up the whole time? No, of course not, but they wrote it that way because otherwise, it'd be a shitty comic.

He isn't going to summon an army during the fight, he does it with his prep, which he can extend to basically any ammount via time manipulation, he has slowed/sped up/stopped time many times before, the last time was in Spiderman #500, when he actually brought Peter back in time to meet with his uncle Ben.

Strange always holds back, he could kill anyone on the Avenger's team at anytime. C'mon now, he is a hero, not a murderer.

long pig
With this prep, Strange can make himseld untouchable by summoning his triple shield, nothing Fate or Wanda or Zatanna can do, will get through the shield, nothing.

No one can touch Strange's mind, he can mind attack both Zatanna and Wanda to get them out of the way. Then it's Fate against Strange w/prep, Fate loses hard.

The blasts from the Eye won't effect Fates body, it'll effect his soul, now Fate may have something to protect him from it, but I haven't heard of it. Fate can't take a full blown Soul rape from Strange.

long pig
Dude, check out the hundreds of thousands of godlike spells he can conjure.

http://www.luckymojo.com/vishantivol1.html
^^ that's just a portion of one friggin book!

All these are at his command at any time.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
The Eye deal was nifty, I thought it was pretty smart.

Quicksilver threw a snowball at Strange, it hit him, Strange has shields up 100% of the time, but writers sometimes forget that, or leave it out so the plot can move on.

With his shield up, none of that would have happend at all, do you seriously think he'd go into a fight with the Avengers without a shield up the whole time? No, of course not, but they wrote it that way because otherwise, it'd be a shitty comic.

He isn't going to summon an army during the fight, he does it with his prep, which he can extend to basically any ammount via time manipulation, he has slowed/sped up/stopped time many times before, the last time was in Spiderman #500, when he actually brought Peter back in time to meet with his uncle Ben.

Strange always holds back, he could kill anyone on the Avenger's team at anytime. C'mon now, he is a hero, not a murderer.

I also agree that the Eye trick was nifty.

Quicksilver didnt throw a snowball in Strange's face. With his feet, he shuffled a bunch of snow just about all over Strange's body. But you get the idea.

About Strange having shields up 100% of the time is not entirely correct. He DOES however always go into fights with the shield up. Ill give you that. But ive never seen him actually do any attacks while in the force feild. Therefore hes going to have to let it down when hes ready to attack. Unless you can show otherwise, but in the comics i have, he doesnt do it.

If he gets to have a sheild up, why cant the others? Fate can go intangible. Do you have any doubts that he wouldnt be able to get through? I dont.

Strange stopping time seems like a last resort LP. Even if it wasnt, do you think he could do that before Zatanna says "EZEERF!"? I highly doubt it. Along with Wanda hexing his powers, hes not beating them. Plain and simple. Maybe in a gauntlet, but not all together.

I believe that all heroes hold back LP. Ofcourse Strange isnt going to kill anyone. Neither would Zatanna or Fate. What true hero is a murderer?(Besides Hal) But we all heard about what Zatanna did to Bats and MM. She could do a spell that makes Strange forget everything hes ever learned. But she wouldnt do that.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
Dude, check out the hundreds of thousands of godlike spells he can conjure.

http://www.luckymojo.com/vishantivol1.html
^^ that's just a portion of one friggin book!

All these are at his command at any time.

I have no doubts that Strange has many spells at his disposal, but you have to remember that Fate also has a library with infinate amouts of spell to conjure as well. In addition to Nabu himself telling him "special ones".

jrodslam
How uber is current Scarlet Witch anyways? Im not collecting House of M. I heard that she altered the whole MU. Is this true?

long pig
Hector hasn't been a Fate more than...what, 5 years? Something like that, he can barely pull a rabbit out of a hat without his helmet.
Strange has been practicing his magic for thousands of years.

And no, Fate isn't getting through his shield while intangible, and yes Strange can blast through his shield, it's like a one way mirror.

Fate has Nabu, Strange has The Vishanti and about a million other Gods who are above Nabu.

Strange wins 10/10 if he goes into Avatar of Eternity mode, no question about it.

But, if he can't, it's still a draw IMO.

The current Scarlet Witch doesn't use magic, no one is sure what she uses, since Chaos magic doesn't exist in Marvel.
She has some sort of reality warping power that's not really able to be focused on one thing, she went insane and somehow altered the entire universe.
It really doesn't make sense at all actually.

EvilCap America
Eh no Fates helmet isnt coming offand just being taken away.Mordru had to plan for a LONG time break him down mentally set numerous traps run him on a wild goose chanse and then only took all his equipment because he was inside Fates amulet and Hector was forced to talk to him in the first place

Mordru with Fates vestments was prepared to tear apart the universe blacks out the sun by causally moving the moon simply TEARS into GL Alan Scott and rips the Starheart out of his chest and at one point beats down the Thunderbolt

Even without Fates equipment Mordru was still a Lord of Chaos i belive smashed a planet or two in his Legion days and in PoD could take a full on bum rush by the entire JSA the Seven soldiers of victory AND the Freedom fighters he then shrugs them Dr.Fate then takes them to finish the battle in a different dimension and beats Mordru down without too much effort sows him his eventual Fate then tosses him in the rock of Eternity

Basically by Dr.Fates own words he is a wielder of ALL magic in DC an easily an equal for a non-Eternity Dr.Strange.With help even from these small fish it puts it in their favor

But meh who cares all i wanna see is Fate and Strange fight in some dimension where they can cause endless collateral damage big grin

long pig
I wish they would fight, somewhere....sometime! It's been a loooonnggggg held debate on who would win between the two.
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/_gfx_/magazines/wizard/WZ20030522-lmsL.gif

Mordru wasn't all that powerful, he has some hella weak showings.

jrodslam
Regardless if Hector's been Fate for 5 yeas, he has the Helmet which Strange cant remove. Nabu helps him, and with that Hector gains over 10 billion years of knowledge through him. Thats more than Vishanti or any other God that helps Strange unless you can prove otherwise.

Strange mostly mentions Vishanti's or Cytorak's(sp?) name when reciting spells or whatever. Thos are probably thew 2 most powerful "Gods" or "Entities" that helps him. The billion other Gods you mention probably dont compare to those 2 who are most likely more superior than the others.

Ive never senn Strange blast through the ff while its up. Never. If so, can you post a scan of him doing so?

Who says theres no "Chaos Magic" in the MU?

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
I wish they would fight, somewhere....sometime! It's been a loooonnggggg held debate on who would win between the two.
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/_gfx_/magazines/wizard/WZ20030522-lmsL.gif

Mordru wasn't all that powerful, he has some hella weak showings.

Hell yea. It would be a fight that drowns out all others without a doubt imo.

Mordru has also been tonned down over the years. Hes aobut just as powerful as Nabu. Sometimes nore.

Although Yandroth isnt that much powerful either, ans shows many displays of weakness as well. Yet puts up a good battle vs Strange.

EvilCap America
Its not like the battle is lopside when its Strange vs Fate.I mean they are both the top Magic-wielders in their respective universes.That should be respeced for both sides of the coin

long pig
Strange says there is no Chaos Magic in the MU.

When asked about Wandas powers, someone mentioned Chaos Magic, Strange said "There is no such thing as Chaos Magic."

There are three Gods of the Vishanti, all are above Nabu. Cyttorak is above or equal to Nabu.
Hell, Shuma groth is above Nabu or at least his equal, same with Dormmamu.

With enough prep, Strange is>Nabu.

Where in the hell did you hear Strange can't shoot blasts while his force field is up? I've never seen Strange go "oh hell! I better drop my shield so i can blast"....c'mon.

He has to be able to shoot through his shields because of his Auto-shield.
He's mentioned his auto-shields that are up at all times, even in a quasar comic when he's suprise attacked by Deathurge, the arrow bounces off his auto-shield that he has up 24/7. It's the same issue he talks about being immune to poison, because he can shunt each molecule of poison away into another dimention.

jrodslam
Like an all out mage and sorcery battle. Strange, Clea, Scarlet Witch, Enchantress, Zatanna, Fate.

That would be hot.

long pig
All out Mage fight would own.
I just want an end to the "Fate vs Strange" debate that's been going on for 40 years.

long pig
<<<Its not like the battle is lopside when its Strange vs Fate.I mean they are both the top Magic-wielders in their respective universes.That should be respeced for both sides of the coin>>>>

No, a straight up Strange vs Fate is prefectly equal, but once you start giving Strange prep, especially 10 hours.....he starts entering the invicibility zone.

jrod, were you the guy I was arguing with about Strange's martial arts ability? Something like, you saying he's never been shown as knowing any type of martial arts??

jrodslam
So because Strange says theres no Chaos Magic in the MU, that makes it true? Maybe he's just being naive and cocky because he figures theres not any type of magic that he doesnt know about. Thus if there did exisit a magic branch that he had no knowlege of he'd feel somewhat incomplete.

Fate = Nabu(Lord of Order) = Mordru(Lord of Chaos) You only assume Shuma-Gorath, Dormammu, and Cyttorak is above Nabu.

I never said that i heard that Strange CANT soot from out of the ff. I said that ive never seen him do it. It you have please post a scan.

From what ive seen, an auto sheild goes up when the person is getting attacked by surprise. Like automatic defence. What auto shield is up 24/7? Usually when Strange puts a shield up, you see the aura around him.

And believe me, theres been plenty of times where the auto shield hasnt gone up. If its like that, everyone in this fight has an auto shield up automatically. It just doesnt happen 24/7.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
jrod, were you the guy I was arguing with about Strange's martial arts ability? Something like, you saying he's never been shown as knowing any type of martial arts??

Yup that was me. I believe you said that he was a master at all earthly forms of Martial Arts. Which I strongly doubted. Knowing a bit is one thing, but being a master at all earthly forms is another that has yet to be stated or proven in the comics. Or even the bios for that matter.

jrodslam
Gotta go to bed. Work in the morning.

long pig
Strange has a auto-shield that he uses at all times(unless intentionally left out by the writers)he's talked about it in detail, it's been shown in detail, it's not a shield that pops up, it's always there, in case someone(like deathurge) tries to shoot him while his back is turned.

He has a sleep protection spell that makes it impossible for magical attacks to zero-in and hit him whilst he's asleep.

Of course, it's been shown him being hit by something with his shield down, but so has Flash, no one should be able to hit Flash(Hell, the turtle-man is slower than a normal human and he hit Flash), but they do because the plot needs it.
In these fights, the plots aren't around.

If the people here can create poweful shields, of course they can use them, it's doubtful they can get them up in time because they don't get any type of prep.

Oh, ah yes, but Strange h2h faught and beat Mantis and Black Panther without using magic. He's a martial arts beast! evil face

long pig
Night, buddy. Good debate. big grin

Cosmic Cube
Yeah right. Zattana says "!niw I", and the fight's over.

colossus17
who says she will get the chance .......to say it....?

Cosmic Flame
Well after the War of the Seven Spheres, Strange was using Castrophe magic. I wonder if it's the same, or something totally different.

Marvel's editors really need to pay closer attention.

whirlysplat
Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Well after the War of the Seven Spheres, Strange was using Castrophe magic. I wonder if it's the same, or something totally different.

Marvel's editors really need to pay closer attention.


So True

colossus17
indeed it is correct......then we all agree that fate and the others are no match for strange....right...... shifty ninja

colossus17
shifty

long pig
Chaos magic isn't Catastrophy magic, but they do get confused with each other a lot, that's why it was a big debate between me and some others when Strange told the Avengers that Chaos magic doesn't exist.
He also says Hex's don't exist either.

Now, what exactly is Wanda using to be able to do what she's been doing?? I have an idea that it's something to do with those shards from mephisto. That's why I though House of M stood for house of mephisto at first. But....guess not.

Fate has a great chance against Strange, but not a prepped Strange, no.

kgkg
Originally posted by long pig
Chaos magic isn't Catastrophy magic, but they do get confused with each other a lot, that's why it was a big debate between me and some others when Strange told the Avengers that Chaos magic doesn't exist.
He also says Hex's don't exist either.

Now, what exactly is Wanda using to be able to do what she's been doing?? I have an idea that it's something to do with those shards from mephisto. That's why I though House of M stood for house of mephisto at first. But....guess not.

Fate has a great chance against Strange, but not a prepped Strange, no.
long pig you know your shit.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
Chaos magic isn't Catastrophy magic, but they do get confused with each other a lot, that's why it was a big debate between me and some others when Strange told the Avengers that Chaos magic doesn't exist.
He also says Hex's don't exist either.

Now, what exactly is Wanda using to be able to do what she's been doing?? I have an idea that it's something to do with those shards from mephisto. That's why I though House of M stood for house of mephisto at first. But....guess not.

Fate has a great chance against Strange, but not a prepped Strange, no.

Well if it aint chaos magic or hex magic, it gotta be something, and Strange doesnt know aobut it. That gives Scarlet an advantage right there alone. Strange is just letting his pride get in the way of admitting that theres a form of magic that he doesnt know aobut. Scarlet has been around for over 30 years and Marvel has said it to be chos or hex magic. Then all of a sudden when Strange dont know whats going on, he says it doesnt exist? Im not buying it. Apparently he still hasnt found a way to stop whatever she does, so it must be something.

Lol. At first, I though House of M stood for House of Marvel. But i agree, there has to be some reason why all of a sudden her powers are the way they are. UNLESS its a secondary mutation, like Beast Iceman, Black Tom etc.

LP, you havent said anything that a prepped Strange would do thats actually going to beat Fate or and the others. Yes he has 1,000 of books in which to conjure up spells, but Fate has Nabu yapping in his ear telling him billions of years worth of magic. Everyone here is adept at what they do. Maybe except Fate without the helmet lol. Strange hasnt even found a wat to beat Scarlet Witch yet. I just think theres too many distractions and counters for Strange to win. Just trying to hold off one opponent will take alot out of him.

long pig
It's probably not magic at all, that's why he knew nothing about it. Or it's just some plot deal, kinda like the Onslaught saga, where was Strange the whole time??

Wanda can't control her powers, therefore she'd be just as dangerous to her teammates as she would Strange, that's why I don't count her as a factor.

With prep, like I said, he can create illusions, conjure millions of demons, beg higher beings for power, create shields that can't be penetrated, he's amped his physical being before with magic, basically creating a magic armor.

He has too much shit to work with, you say Fate has books, he does, but he doesn't have prep here, Strange gets prep.

Zatanna is taken out without a thought, she'd nothing to Strange.

Then it'd be Strange vs Fate, a prepped Strange wins.

Wanda would end up turning everyone into monkeys and something stupid, so no body wins.

jrodslam
Well whatever it is, he doesnt know what it is nor know how to stop it. Wanda is able to control her powers more times than not. Youre making it one of those days where she doesnt have control.

During the Onslaught saga, Strange was probably drunk or had a hangover or something. Who knows.

Illusions? I dont know aobut Zatanna, but through the Helmet, Fate can to the same. Fate conjure millions of demons? Has he ever? Even so, they all get sent to another relam.

Now it resorts to Strange begging higher beings for power. You dont know if Strange's Gods are higher than the Lords of Order and Chaos.

I wasnt implying that Fate woud use is books in the battle. I just brough up the fact that Fate has studied 1,000's of boks as well. Nabu is beyond all books in Fate's library and he guides Fate directly. Thats what i was trying to mention. And theres no way Strange is getting that Helmet off.

Zatanna is taken out without a thought? How so? You highly underestimate her. Shes helped Spectre beat gods of magic that he couldnt beat alone. If Strange takes her down, it would take take time.

What can he do to her before she says "EZEERF!"? If she says anything at all?

I dont even believe that Strange has found a way to stop Wanda yet. But she sure knows how to stop him. Or contain him rather.

Wanda turning everyone to monkeys would blow me away. If that ever happened in a comic, id kill myself.

long pig
Current Wanda, has little to no control. She's totally insane right now, no control at all.

Strange can't be fooled by illusions, he is immune to them. Fate and the rest aren't. Also, Strange's illusions all have powers, not as much as Strange, but they indeed do have magic/telepathy, and think on their own.


He can banish her away. And he she says "ezeerf" he can negate it, her reality control/magic is beneath his.

Zatanna: "ezeerf!"
Strange: "No"

It seriously is as simple as that.


You seriously aren't trying to imply Fate without the helmet is even close to Strange's league, are you?


He took care of her in the Avengers issue, without trying to harm her, he mindwiped her while she struggled. If he wanted to harm her then, he could.

Resorting to higher powers is what Strange does, that's where his powers come from. He is an Avatar for many many Gods that are at least Nabu's equal, but probably his superior.

long pig
Like I said, it'd come down to Strange w/prep vs Fate, and Fate can't win that fight.

Those illusions are crazy, they think and act on their own, and each have powers like Strange. So, it'd be:

15 Stranges, a few thousand demons vs a insane Wanda, Fate and Zatanna.

long pig
<<During the Onslaught saga, Strange was probably drunk or had a hangover or something. Who knows.>>

Lol, yeah...him and Tony like to drink....they can stop whenever they want!

There is a reason why Strange wasn't around, it's because the story wouldn't be the same with him there. He's just too powerful.

Marvel is curently in the work of de-powering Strange because he's basically became too uber. They are making it that Mordo messes with his past and screws him up.

ImmortalOne
He's a GOD only has BLOOD in his veins !!!

LONGPIG, whaddaya say we give a toast for our friend Stephen Strange, the Sorceror Supreme !!!

Cheers !!!

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
Current Wanda, has little to no control. She's totally insane right now, no control at all.

Arrg. Keep forgetting ist current. Bah!

Originally posted by long pig
Strange can't be fooled by illusions, he is immune to them. Fate and the rest aren't. Also, Strange's illusions all have powers, not as much as Strange, but they indeed do have magic/telepathy, and think on their own.

Fate and Zatanna arent immune to illusions? Do you have prof of this? Or is it an allegation? Zatanna herslef is a master illusionist. Imagine what Fate can do.

If Strange's illusions arent as powerfull, they they would be useless. Zatanna and Fate are immune to telepathy. Whats stopping the illusions from being trapped in suspence or banishment? Strange has been banished before.

Sine they all are capable of banishment and teleportation, that idea is nulled. Zatanna and Fate are also capable of dimension jumping.

Originally posted by long pig
He can banish her away. And he she says "ezeerf" he can negate it, her reality control/magic is beneath his.

Read above about the banishment. And reality control? If Strange is asleep, contained in frozen suspence, theres nothing he could do abut that. Though sometimes his astral form is able to still function.

Originally posted by long pig
Zatanna: "ezeerf!"
Strange: "No"

It seriously is as simple as that.

How is Strange going to say "No", when he cant speak? Strasnge has been frozen in suspence before and was tataly unable of getting out. He wasnt even able to get out through astral form.

Containment in the Amulet of Anubis. Hes not getting out of that.


Originally posted by long pig
You seriously aren't trying to imply Fate without the helmet is even close to Strange's league, are you?

? I said that theres no way Strange is getting the Helmet off of Fate. Strange may have books, but they dont equal to Nabu's 10 billion + years of spells.

Originally posted by long pig
He took care of her in the Avengers issue, without trying to harm her, he mindwiped her while she struggled. If he wanted to harm her then, he could.

He was sure struggling against her in the Defenders issue.

Originally posted by long pig
Resorting to higher powers is what Strange does, that's where his powers come from. He is an Avatar for many many Gods that are at least Nabu's equal, but probably his superior.

Fate also gets his powers from Gods also. Directly from the beginning. You only assume Strange's gods are superior than Fate's.

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
Like I said, it'd come down to Strange w/prep vs Fate, and Fate can't win that fight.

Those illusions are crazy, they think and act on their own, and each have powers like Strange. So, it'd be:

15 Stranges, a few thousand demons vs a insane Wanda, Fate and Zatanna.

15 Stranges and a few thousand demons? Unless they are able to affect the intangible or are immune to magic, then ofcourse Strange wins.

How many times has Strange even summond dupes to fight for him? Or summoned a few thousand demons? Getting a bit desperate here huh?

ImmortalOne
NO !!! Not desperate !!
Just ensuring a clear VICTORY !!!

ImmortalOne
What ?? Are y'all afraid of Strang's full potential !!

xmarksthespot
Does Wanda not factor into this anywhere?

ImmortalOne
No !!

long pig
A bunch of times, at least 5 or 6.
ST #123 (first, against Loki), ST #130-131, DS #70.


A lot of times, sometimes he uses Demons of Denak to fight or attack for him. Their claws can rips steel apart.



I've never heard of Zatanna being immune to illusions or telepathy. She is a mid-level telepath, nothing more, she isn't immune to either.

I know Fate is immune, because of his amulet, Strange is immune because of his Eye.


They aren't as powerful, but they still aren't helpless. Useless? Not at all, Zatanna has admitted being unable to caste a spell if she can't concentrait, that's what the illusions are there for. She's being pestered by a bunch of different Stranges until she gets taken out by the real one.
She will have no way of knowing which is which, Loki didn't, and Zatanna is no Loki.


Nothing is stopping them from banishing...except the fact that they aren't real. Doesn't matter if they are banished, they are only there to confuse Fate/Zatanna so the real Dr. can open up on 'em
.
Strange has been banished, yes, by a IG weilder, and he willed himself back through dimentions in a few seconds.
Fate and Zatanna are no IG.


It's simple, she won't be able to. She's banished before she can.

But, when was he unable to go into AF? Who froze him? Was he aware that he was going to be attacked? Were his shields up? <---probably not.

So, again....Zatanna will be banished, Wanda is a nut....so it'd be Fate vs Strange with prep. Fate can't win.

Eternity will give him power if he needs it to win. That's what has happend before, I see no reason for it not to happen here.

long pig
Imprisonment in the Crimson Crystal of Cytorrak, Fate isn't getting out of that.
Cyttorak can't even get out of that.

xmarksthespot
If we disregard Wanda's enormous power... (I don't know how to do that highlight for spoilers thing so I won't reveal any) then Strange with the amount of prep he has wins.

But I'd note that just because Wanda is unpredictable and would act on her own team doesn't mean that she isn't a factor in this. Reality bends to her subconscious will and survival is an instinct.

long pig
No, I know her power, but she doesn't really have control of it.

If we say "Ok, she has control for this fight" then she beats everyone, or at least that's what Marvel want's us to think, me...I doubt it.

Do you know if it's magic she's using yet?

This fight though, I don't see any reason why he can't go into astral form and just own. Fate and Zatanna will be busy fighting the illusions and demons.

Strange in astral form is just as powerful as he is in real life and can use the exact same spells, he can stay there for 24 hours until he starts weakening.

Neither Fate nor Zatanna can see or effect Astral Strange in any way whatsoever.

long pig
From what we have seen so far....if Wanda has control over her power, she'd have basically the same power as an IG wielder.

xmarksthespot
Well seeing as Strange didn't detect or anticipate her reality warp in HoM #1 - which affected him as well I'd note - it could be purely mutant ability ie that she's an omega mutant that can warp reality.

long pig
It's true, he was effected....he shouldn't have been, or at least he should have known about it.
He is a big pre-cog and he does have a waterfall in his house that shows the future, ya'd think this woulda popped up in it.

Same with the Onslaught saga, he wasn't used then or now because the story wouldn't be able to progress if he was being used fully, it's all about the x-men.

Strange has resisted reality warping from the I.G twice, Wanda can't possibly be more powerful than that.

xmarksthespot
Hope this doesn't spoil anything for anybody....................

but from what I've seen she's affecting more than just one universe/reality.

long pig
Wonder if somehow....she came across some shards of the reality gem?
I still think it might be those shards from Mephisto that's giving her all this power.

Seriously, more than one universe??

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by long pig
Seriously, more than one universe??

Well her powers are spilling over into other universe/realities and f**king up Otherworld, the nexus between realities so if that counts as affecting more than one universe/reality then yeh.

long pig
Wow, so she's got some serious power there.

jrodslam

jrodslam
Originally posted by long pig
Imprisonment in the Crimson Crystal of Cytorrak, Fate isn't getting out of that.
Cyttorak can't even get out of that.

All these counters. I guess this is a fight of whoever gets off the spell first.

You can do. I can do.
You can do. I can counter.

You cant get out. I cant get out.

Unless, I put you in first.

xmarksthespot
Wanda turns them all into monkeys and keeps them as pets. Her team still technically wins since she's still alive and human.

long pig
Originally posted by jrodslam
All these counters. I guess this is a fight of whoever gets off the spell first.

You can do. I can do.
You can do. I can counter.

You cant get out. I cant get out.

Unless, I put you in first.

There ya go. It could go either way, what I've said from the beginning. You were saying he had no chance, I said he did.

Unless of course he gets help from Eternity.

No, Eternity will give him power when he needs it, not just for certain things, only when he is up against odds that he can't handle.
Like the first time he asked, he was up against Mordo & Dormmamu, Eternity refused and told Strange he'd only help if Strange couldn't do it by himself.

So, it's basically....if Strange can't win this fight on his own, he will get help, then he will win 10/10, without help, this fight can go either way. That's why you don't give Strange prep in these fights, he will dominate, especially against heavy odds.

You still haven't countered the fact that Strange can go into Astral form. No one can touch him there, and he is just as powerful there as he is normally, and only weakens if he's there over 24hours.

The King of All
w/ preparation strange can throw up an insanely powerful sheild, and summon up all sorts of things that cause ownage. I'd give it to strange 7/10

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