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So which character has the most haters?

Id say Wolverine.

wolverine has the most haters

Jubilee's pretty hated.

I say Superman has the most haters.

Hah... not that she's on that list (I didn't notice the poll.)

I'll say Superman, only because Wolverine's haters are balanced out by people who violently like him. Superman doesn't seem to have quite as many supporters in recent years.

Wolverine, Batman, Robin, Superman and Doom. Either out of jealousy or out of "I don't think he can win, arrggh!!!" syndrome lol. Plus I have to admit, at one time Robin was so gay....thank god that changed. You can't name a character Dick and then make him wear shorts like that, c'mon...

Superman by far. Wolverine doesn't hold a candle to him. People delibrately go out of their way to degrade Superman or put him in a no-win scenario.

For god's sake he has 100 plus hate thread in his own forum.

It's between Supes and Wolverine. Superman is hated and incredibly underestimated. Wolverine, as said before, has plenty of haters but also plenty who think he's Jesus.

Originally posted by cheshire_smile
Hah... not that she's on that list (I didn't notice the poll.)

I'll say Superman, only because Wolverine's haters are balanced out by people who violently like him. Superman doesn't seem to have quite as many supporters in recent years.

The same could be said for Superman.

Superman has like two or three. Snoop. Juntai. Sometimes jrodslam. That's it. The ratio of Superman haters to Superman worshippers is like the ratio of Romans to Christians when Jesus was still alive.

Originally posted by Draco69
Superman has like two or three. Snoop. Juntai. Sometimes jrodslam. That's it. The ratio of Superman haters to Superman worshippers is like the ratio of Romans to Christians when Jesus was still alive.

weep

definitly supes even i hate him pretty much because i never like that he could like never die it was kinda dumb to me but all the others on poll are pimpin who voted spidey as the most hated?!?!?!?!?!!?

Originally posted by Family_guy725
definitly supes even i hate him pretty much because i never like that he could like never die it was kinda dumb to me but all the others on poll are pimpin who voted spidey as the most hated?!?!?!?!?!!? I know who did, I know who did!

It wasn't me, but I'm fairly certain I know who did.

Originally posted by pr1983
weep You don't "violently" like Superman do you?

I think you're rather level headed about your like of Superman, as am I.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You don't "violently" like Superman do you?

I think you're rather level headed about your like of Superman, as am I.

His personality (as much a source of ridicule as his powers) is what appeals to me...

Originally posted by Draco69
Superman has like two or three. Snoop. Juntai. Sometimes jrodslam. That's it. The ratio of Superman haters to Superman worshippers is like the ratio of Romans to Christians when Jesus was still alive.

Well, come on, name some Wolverine fanboys.

The only two I've ever seen on this forum who will vote Wolverine against practically everyone under Drax the Destroyer are Wolverine888 and blackwolverine. Jinzin and I always back up our arguements with logic and incidents from the books.

Then you've got Metalman, Cordera, XMarksTheSpot, they're like broken records in any Wolverine thread. "Wolverine vs Doc Ock? Not if you take away PIS and write him CORRECT! Wolverine vs 100 generic henchmen? REALISTICALLY he couldn't win!!!11 Wolverine vs Detective Chimp? NO WAY Wolverine wins!!11" etc....

The level of Wolverine bashing I've seen defies all logic. Even in threads that have nothing to do with it, you'll see it. Shit like....

Captain America v. Galactus

I'll see a lot more posts going "lol W0lver33n use5 dumB f4nbo`/ shi3lD 2 w33n!!!11" then I see posts from actual "fanboys." They're practically bogeymen, except for the two I mentioned.

1. superman
2. batman
3. spiderman
4. wolverine

most fanyboys
1. wolverine
2. batman
3. spiderman
4. superman

wolverine easiy....

Wolverine-fanboys have made people hate Wolverine.

But I think there are more people who hate Superman because he is "Lame", or because he doesn't have cool costume, or because he isn't "badass".

Originally posted by Piedmon
Well, come on, name some Wolverine fanboys.

The only two I've ever seen on this forum who will vote Wolverine against practically everyone under Drax the Destroyer are Wolverine888 and blackwolverine. Jinzin and I always back up our arguements with logic and incidents from the books.

Then you've got Metalman, Cordera, XMarksTheSpot, they're like broken records in any Wolverine thread. "Wolverine vs Doc Ock? Not if you take away PIS and write him CORRECT! Wolverine vs 100 generic henchmen? REALISTICALLY he couldn't win!!!11 Wolverine vs Detective Chimp? NO WAY Wolverine wins!!11" etc....

The level of Wolverine bashing I've seen defies all logic. Even in threads that have nothing to do with it, you'll see it. Shit like....

Captain America v. Galactus

I'll see a lot more posts going "lol W0lver33n use5 dumB f4nbo`/ shi3lD 2 w33n!!!11" then I see posts from actual "fanboys." They're practically bogeymen, except for the two I mentioned.

Bad writing does exist in some fights with Wolverine. It is when a character who has done things (Such as dodging faster things) can't suddenly do it when he fights Wolverine. Or when Wolverine heals from things he wasn't able to do before or surviving nukes or stuff like that.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Jinzin and I always back up our arguements with logic
Now that's not an entirely credulous statement. In Wolverine vs Havok you said Wolverine would win because Havok would be scared. And I recall a Wolverine vs Iron Man no prep a while ago which somehow evolved into a thread where people were saying Wolverine would sneak up on Iron Man, or get him when he's out of his armour.
Originally posted by Piedmon
Then you've got Metalman, Cordera, XMarksTheSpot, they're like broken records in any Wolverine thread. "Wolverine vs Doc Ock? Not if you take away PIS and write him CORRECT! Wolverine vs 100 generic henchmen? REALISTICALLY he couldn't win!!!11 Wolverine vs Detective Chimp? NO WAY Wolverine wins!!11" etc....I don't think I even posted in Wolverine vs Doc Ock. Besides I don't hate Wolverine, in the comics I like him fine.

When people make threads where I think Wolverine will lose. I say so. I don't see how that means people hate him.
Wolverine vs Namor. Namor.
Wolverine vs Colossus. Colossus.
Wolverine vs Hulk. Hulk
Wolverine vs Cyclops. Cyclops.
Wolverine vs Havok. Havok.
For some reason that means I hate Wolverine?

Most hated unreasonably is Superman.

Before it was "He is on the side of Wolverine in every thread, he must be Wolverine fanboy."

Now it is: "He is NOT in side of Wolverine in every thread, he must be Wolverine hater."

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


Most hated unreasonably is Superman. agreed.

Spiderman. In USM Nick Fury says People will literally kill to have his powers....which is true....I would.

Since everyone that doesn't aknowledge Batman as the Ultimate Being is in my Eyes a hater I'd say bAtman


Besides that Supes might have a lot of Haters (me included)
And Wolverine does (me not)


Because they are overpowered and Overhyped...Batman is not

I understand why people hate Superman, but gosh darn it I just love the man to much.

Kill Bill put it best- "Superman, mmm not a great comic book, not particulary well drawn, but the Mytholgy!"

name a wolverine fanboy please!

do a roll call!

please DC or xmarksthespot!

just do it!

wolverine8888

blackwolverine

WolverineFAN

"Because they are overpowered and Overhyped...Batman is not "

Batman its overhyped and overxposed.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Well, come on, name some Wolverine fanboys.

The only two I've ever seen on this forum who will vote Wolverine against practically everyone under Drax the Destroyer are Wolverine888 and blackwolverine. Jinzin and I always back up our arguements with logic and incidents from the books.

Then you've got Metalman, Cordera, XMarksTheSpot, they're like broken records in any Wolverine thread. "Wolverine vs Doc Ock? Not if you take away PIS and write him CORRECT! Wolverine vs 100 generic henchmen? REALISTICALLY he couldn't win!!!11 Wolverine vs Detective Chimp? NO WAY Wolverine wins!!11" etc....

The level of Wolverine bashing I've seen defies all logic. Even in threads that have nothing to do with it, you'll see it. Shit like....

Captain America v. Galactus

I'll see a lot more posts going "lol W0lver33n use5 dumB f4nbo`/ shi3lD 2 w33n!!!11" then I see posts from actual "fanboys." They're practically bogeymen, except for the two I mentioned. Thats such bs it isn't even funny.

I said he'd win against generic henchmen.

Then there are guys that defend wolverine against namor, hulk, abomination, wrecker, and just about anyone short of galactus.

Wolverine vs 5 elder predators, wolverine vs flash, godzilla, people saying he can pierce Silver Surfer's chest.

I can name all of the wolverine fanboys here to date, they are the MOST infuriating of the whole forum, hands down. Obnoxious stubborn, and only feed their own opinions, no logic using, thinks he jumps 50 feet in the air, moves faster than the speed of sound, regenerates from a blood cell, is FASTER than spiderman, is THE best fighter around, and can beat ANYONE that is written in the comics

Go to the games forum, and people think he can beat LOBO, turn around and have people saying goku losing to superman.

I have defended wolverine in very many threads, but bring logic in and the place crumbles.

That being said spidemran and thing are hated. Noone seems to care that spiderman outclasses most street levels by far, no he's just a geek around here. If you don't say he loses you are a fanboy, you say he loses and people still make up stuff.

Don't call me out on links because I will pull up stuff.

The list:

Derrick 24: thinks wolverine beats thanos
logan87
pointinel
the wolverine
wolverex84
xlogan
piedmon is ok, until its hulk or the wrecker or abomination
jinzin can go overboard alot too, but he is BY FAR the best of you lot.
black wolverine
the xfactor
wolverinefan
cheldon
Kingkam said he was one


And more to come, its like a factory slay one, and more come...

High priest of church wolvigod.lol I won't go that far, I'm sure this will get controversy.

Which is good, cause i like controversy, especially when people put my name into stuff.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Go to the games forum, and people think he can beat LOBO, turn around and have people saying goku losing to superman. That leap that's implied is so scary that it could be an award wining novel, or movie.

Wolverine beating Goku.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The list:

Derrick 24: thinks wolverine beats thanos
logan87
pointinel
the wolverine
wolverex84
xlogan
piedmon is ok, until its hulk or the wrecker or abomination
jinzin can go overboard alot too, but he is BY FAR the best of you lot.
black wolverine
the xfactor
wolverinefan
cheldon
Kingkam said he was one


wow! im so high on your list! thanks!

why the hell is cheldon in there?!?! he's just a noob

... that was a good chuckle....

Best I heard was
"Everone says wolverine shouldn't of beaten people he has due to PIS/CIS, Wolveines fights include CIS/PIS events soo much that they should be included in VS threads..."

I've heard a lot of people say Phoenix at least some of the x-men fans. Alot of the ones that read the comics.

I can think of at least four people, or more that do.

My top list are the following
1. Superman( just never liked him)
2. Gambit(I find him kind of lame)
3. Phoenix sometimes.. .not always (just think she is a little overrated is all)
4. Wolverine ( like him, but I think he is overrated some)

how can you not like gambit, hes the only one more powerful then phoenix... The gumbo is another aspect of god....

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
how can you not like gambit, hes the only one more powerful then phoenix... The gumbo is another aspect of god....


now your getting it

Superman for sure. As I can tell from the forums most of the people here are Marvel Biased and if your a real big marvel fan, you most defintly(most of the time) hate Superman.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
now your getting it

I believe prof X once said that Gambit would be able to make a "gumbo so hot that it would extinguish the phoenix for good, then the world would know peace and happiness without gods little helper wrecking the time-line every 5 mins..."

Originally posted by Pointinel
wow! im so high on your list! thanks!

why the hell is cheldon in there?!?! he's just a noob

Meh if you did more debating I would've put you higher, but the first post I remember reading from you was:

"Why ya'll hate wolverine so much?

Wolveirne beats Tony Stark

End of. "

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Bad writing does exist in some fights with Wolverine. It is when a character who has done things (Such as dodging faster things) can't suddenly do it when he fights Wolverine. Or when Wolverine heals from things he wasn't able to do before or surviving nukes or stuff like that.

Sometimes characters get more powerful over time. That happens in just about any Japanese shounen (boy's) action anime you care to name. Hell, Thing and Invisible Woman have both become much more powerful since their first appearances. So have Toad, Beast, Emma Frost, Havok, and of course Psylock. All these characters have had enhancements to their abilities. Some were due to secondary mutation, others were due to the characters growing more experienced with their abilities, others are due to their abilities gradually growing stronger.

So why can't Wolverine improve? Just because he couldn't regenerate at this accelerated level before, why shouldn't he be able to now? I'm not saying he should be able to stand at ground zero of a nuke and laugh it off, but when his arm was burned off by Cassandra Nova, that was no great departure from what we'd seen before.

Originally posted by JediMasterLuke5
Superman for sure. As I can tell from the forums most of the people here are Marvel Biased and if your a real big marvel fan, you most defintly(most of the time) hate Superman.

Absolutely untrue. I've been an X-aholic since the tender age of FOUR, and I still have room for Superman and his JLA buddies..... I don't get why it always has to be one camp or the other. It's not like comics are doing such big business right now that you can afford to completely ignore one half of the mainstream market....

ok... so if wolverine got split in 2 would 2 wolverines regenerate?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Now that's not an entirely credulous statement. In Wolverine vs Havok you said Wolverine would win because Havok would be scared.

And I recall a Wolverine vs Iron Man no prep a while ago which somehow evolved into a thread where people were saying Wolverine would sneak up on Iron Man, or get him when he's out of his armour.
I don't think I even posted in Wolverine vs Doc Ock. Besides I don't hate Wolverine, in the comics I like him fine.

We know he is from the comics. Wolverine #25. Havok goes Wolver-hunting in the forest. Wolverine pops out of the bushes at him. Havok (presumably) screams like a preschool girl and freezes up (tragic that comics are a silent medium). Wolverine gives Havok three claws across the chest. Havok's down.

If Havok had kept his cool, he might have been able to blast Wolverine. As it was, his own fear slowed his reaction time. This is not PIS. It was an entirely reasonable scenario, in which Wolverine had surprise and a tactical advantage. I agree that if you just sat Wolverine and Havok down 40 feet in front of each other, Havok could blast Wolverine and that would be the end of it.



I've never seen you back Wolverine ONCE. Not against Spider Man, Captain America, Black Panther..... you even agreed with metalmanx he would lose against 100 Ninjas! What the hell? 100 NINJAS?



Even in this thread you can't bring yourself to give Wolverine your vote .... j/k.... =P

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I believe prof X once said that Gambit would be able to make a "gumbo so hot that it would extinguish the phoenix for good, then the world would know peace and happiness without gods little helper wrecking the time-line every 5 mins..."

It is a wonderful plan the word retconn could finally be buried.

You would do anything to see the pheonix get killed off, or GS proved wrong now...

Originally posted by Piedmon
We know he is from the comics. Wolverine #25. Havok goes Wolver-hunting in the forest. Wolverine pops out of the bushes at him. Havok (presumably) screams like a preschool girl and freezes up (tragic that comics are a silent medium). Wolverine gives Havok three claws across the chest. Havok's down. If Havok had kept his cool, he might have been able to blast Wolverine. As it was, his own fear slowed his reaction time. This is not PIS. It was an entirely reasonable scenario, in which Wolverine had surprise and a tactical advantage.A scenario engineered so Wolverine would win.
Originally posted by Piedmon
I agree that if you just sat Wolverine and Havok down 40 feet in front of each other, Havok could blast Wolverine and that would be the end of it.A neutral scenario.
Originally posted by Piedmon
I've never seen you back Wolverine ONCE. Not against Spider Man, Captain America, Black Panther..... you even agreed with metalmanx he would lose against 100 Ninjas! What the hell? 100 NINJAS?I don't think he'd beat Spider-Man, or Black Panther. I recall it was fully armed SHIELD agents, not ninja, all attacking at once, and I recall it was cumulative kill 1 and 2 would come, kill 2 and 3 come so he ended up killing far more than 100. He'd beat Captain America.
Originally posted by Piedmon
Even in this thread you can't bring yourself to give Wolverine your vote .... j/k.... =P Superman is more unreasonably hated than Wolverine on the vs forums.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
ok... so if wolverine got split in 2 would 2 wolverines regenerate? Why do you think there are so many wolverine's running around?

I read somewhere wolverine can regenerate from a cell... would he not wake up in the morning with a 1000 other wolvies in the same bed... all come from cells he lost in the night...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A scenario engineered so Wolverine would win.
A neutral scenario.
I don't think he'd beat Spider-Man, or Black Panther. I recall it was fully armed SHIELD agents, not ninja, all attacking at once, and I recall it was cumulative kill 1 and 2 would come, kill 2 and 3 come so he ended up killing far more than 100. He'd beat Captain America.
Superman is more unreasonably hated than Wolverine on the vs forums.

^HATE post!

LOL!

i say superman is most hated.... ppl hate wolverine cuz he is in every thing

Originally posted by Pointinel
^HATE post!

LOL! How do you figure?

"He'd beat Captain America."

Kinda hard to read it as such with that statement.

Originally posted by Creshosk
How do you figure?

"He'd beat Captain America."

Kinda hard to read it as such with that statement.



^joking

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A scenario engineered so Wolverine would win.

A neutral scenario.

Yeah, neutral. Neutral the way a British Man with a Lee-Enfield parks himself 200 paces from an African lion and shoots it, then declares "I beat him fair! You all saw!"

There's the Danger Room and then there's the real world. Outside of a featureless arena, in a place where Wolverine's skills could come into play, he would take Havok out.



Well, that was my point, wasn't it? =P



You're mixing two different threads. There was a thread where Wolverine was set against several thousand HYDRA and Hand soldiers in a jungle. The "cumulative," bit was someone else's suggestion, and patently absurd--even if the HYDRA or Hand operatives managed to radio in before they were slaughtered, it would take other squads time to convene in on their position. Wolverine could slip away in that time and pick off the next batch at will.

Originally posted by Piedmon
You're mixing two different threads. There was a thread where Wolverine was set against several thousand HYDRA and Hand soldiers in a jungle. The "cumulative," bit was someone else's suggestion, and patently absurd--even if the HYDRA or Hand operatives managed to radio in before they were slaughtered, it would take other squads time to convene in on their position. Wolverine could slip away in that time and pick off the next batch at will. The "patently ridiculous" idea was a concept by the original thread starter to try and keep the thread interesting.

I should know it was my thread.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I read somewhere wolverine can regenerate from a cell... would he not wake up in the morning with a 1000 other wolvies in the same bed... all come from cells he lost in the night... He did that using a plot device. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
The "patently ridiculous" idea was a concept by the original thread starter to try and keep the thread interesting.

I should know it was my thread.

Well.... well....

*Explodes in a hail of guts, viscera, and tiny hot dogs*

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I read somewhere wolverine can regenerate from a cell... would he not wake up in the morning with a 1000 other wolvies in the same bed... all come from cells he lost in the night...

He better not even DREAM of cutting his nails...or his hair.

And God bless us if he accidentally sneezes...

Wolverine haters have flamed this thread with there trollin.
I don't hate Wolverine he sometimes wins when he shouldn't thats comics - Heroes are usually the underdogs in power and thats how it should be. Sadly people like Chris Claremont forget this and make there characters "god-like", Wolverine is not, and written well he is a genius character. He really started off the feet of clay modern superhero.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Wolverine haters have flamed this thread with there trollin.
I don't hate Wolverine he sometimes wins when he shouldn't thats comics - Heroes are usually the underdogs in power and thats how it should be. Sadly people like Chris Claremont forget this and make there characters "god-like", Wolverine is not, and written well he is a genius character. He really started off the feet of clay modern superhero.

^cosigns 92%

except for that CC bash, you damn blokes!

Originally posted by Piedmon
Yeah, neutral. Neutral the way a British Man with a Lee-Enfield parks himself 200 paces from an African lion and shoots it, then declares "I beat him fair! You all saw!"
There's the Danger Room and then there's the real world. Outside of a featureless arena, in a place where Wolverine's skills could come into play, he would take Havok out.It's a standard neutral scenario. In a cityscape environment without prep he'd still lose. In a scenario in which Wolverine is given free reign to prepare a sneak attack on Havok he has better odds.
Originally posted by Piedmon
Well, that was my point, wasn't it? =PYour point was that in my opinion Spider-Man and Black Panther would beat Wolverine? Why didn't you quote that I said he would beat Captain America?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's a standard neutral scenario. In a cityscape environment without prep he'd still lose. In a scenario in which Wolverine is given free reign to prepare a sneak attack on Havok he has better odds.

In a city environment, there's cover and terrain to consider. A "city," supports a huge variety of different places to stage a fight, so where woul this be? In the middle of a street? Even if Havok didn't care about innocent life and was going to use his maximum potential, Wolverine can use oncoming traffic as a screen to hide himself, slip around Havok and stab him from behind. Wolverine is a trained stealth fighter, and the only one in this fight with hyper-senses.



I did... you said it at the end there..... my point is you think just about anyone with superpowers could beat Wolverine. What makes him so dangerous isn't his powers, but the skills he couples with them.

wolverine loses..... always....

Phoenix has two really big haters. One is the master the other is the servant learning all his masters tricks.

lol.... i second that!!!!

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
lol.... i second that!!!!

taken from elswhere

Thoughts

in the interest of the poster's self-glorification, of course
>
>
> -Jean Grey, the mutant Yogi:
>
> OK, since this is, after all, a superhero comic, what follows may seem out of place. But don't underestimate Morrison's own pretentiousness
>
> In the last issue of the run, Cassandra says that "according to my Shi'ar files, the Phoenix consciousness accesses its host through the Chakra placed at the crown of the head" or something to that effect (I don't have the issues handy so I'm quoting from memory). This throwaway line is Morrison's main contribution to clearing up the Phoenix continuity.
>
> Chakra is the Sanskrit work for circular motion. According to Tantrism, a chakra is a spherical energy centre affected by everything around us. In Hindu Tantrism there are seven main chakras, while in Buddhist Tantrism there are five, all arrayed along the vertebral column. The chakras are supposed to be the points from which the "ethereal" vital energy of the astral body flows (the astral body, that trope from classic Marvel which Dr. Strange, Xavier and even Magneto are so keen to switch into).
>
> The chakra of the crown (top of the head) is called Sahasrara, and it resonates with the energy of wisdom, insight, and TRUTH. It is also referred to as "the many-petalled lotus".
>
> Tantrism tries to "open" the chakras, by making the passive, "earthly" energy situated at the lowest chakra (represented by the snake Kundalini) clamber up the spine. The hardest one to open is of course the uppermost one, the lotus. Jean's mutation, which would allow her to tap into the/a Phoenix entity, is that her chakras are open. That's "the mind over matter" thingy she herself identifies with telekinesis (when she addresses the U-men while stopping their onslaught against the X-mansion).
>
> For more superheroines with chakra-derived powers, see Multi-girl from Alan Moore's "Top 10". Or the issue from Moore's "Promethea" where Promethea has tantric sex with her magical mentor Jack Faust.
>
> (That mister Morrison tends to get so jerky when he refers to Moore's work may have to do with the fact that they are natural competitors, being interested in the same stuff and such. Moore's writing is better IMO, more human and accessible).
>
> So Jeannie has ultimate enlightenment built into her genome. That's why it's probably deliberate that Morrison writes her as "angelic"*. When the Phoenix appears, she waltzes around as an avenging angel, uncompromisingly truthful. That's all she tells Bishop during "Murder", and that's all she does when she interrupts Emma's psychic romp with Cyke. she peels away all the layers of armour and lies of the ice queen, revealing her flaws and therefore redeeming her: Emma admits that she's shallow, manipulative, and that she's in love. The execution is less than ideal and Emma remains pretty faithful to her bitchy self after that, but I find the concept is kinda touching.
>
> (* "seraphic", to be more specific. Seraphs are referred to as the most exalted angels of all, fiery spirits often depicted around the crowned Godhead. Since the serried ranks of Phoenixes (Phoenices?) from the last issue look a lot like a heavenly host of sorts, the "white Phoenix of the crown" thing may be a play on words).
>
> Once the Phoenix connects with her, Jean practically becomes the only diamond without flaws, the one character without doubts or fears. Jean White, as it is. Even when Mags bumps her off, the Phoenix remains "invictus". That's not too "relatable", but since in Morrison's run mutation/change is synonymous with conflict, I suppose he needed to place a character above the din of the struggle. You have to wrap up your run, you know.
>
> (BTW, Quentin turns/taps indeed into a Phoenix-like entity when he dies, feeding off the "humus" left in the wake of Kick overindulgence. That's why Xorn says "a flower of light is opening in your head". He could have said "a lotus of light" too).
>
> -Why the run feels so disjointed:
>
> OK, she's not supposed to be omniscient, and yet, if Jean is so swell, how come she does not uncover Sublime's little scam with her searing glance? The fact is that Morrison seems to realize his ominous wild card is too big for the stories he's telling, specially after "Imperial". The result is that Jean gets really little time on camera. That cheapens the love triangle with Scott and Emma.
>
> And that's the problem with the run seen as a whole. The motive of "thinking outside the box" is central in the stories, and yet, when taken to its logical extreme, leads (as a dying, transfigured Quentin says) to "rooms that are larger than the world". That's fine and dandy in another context (the Invisibles, for example), but it does not gel all too well with X-corp, murder mysteries and restive teenagers. For the sake of closure, Morrison drops the ball on the motives he has established early on and shortchanges the reader by enacting a cosmic endgame where everybody discards their masks and very additional depth is gained in exchange.
>
> (As for the cosmic endgame: the idea of Jean as deluded servant of the Beast and victorious Phoenix resembles Promethea's double role as Babylonian whore and angel of Judgement Day. Again, Moore and Morrison share the same niche).
>
> There's no real crescendo leading up to the apocalyptic finale. Morrison wastes his biggest shot at the beginning, with Genosha's destruction*. The dissonance that is "Planet X" does not elicit a sense of foreboding or resolution, only of restlessness, and any dramatic effect it aims for is tarnished by indulgent parody and the shoddiness of "Assault on weapon plus".
>
> (*The giant sentinels are a variation of the hoary old motive of machine development outstripping biological evolution. Perhaps because it is regarded as "vulgar", the idea is only dealt with cursorily afterwards, in the form of nano-sentinels, E.V.A. etc.)
>
> -Diamonds are forever?
>
> I end up feeling that Morrison's run is, well, quite flawed. But it does shine at places, and it has piqued my interest in a franchise I'd always found too commercial and convoluted. Cassaday on art OTOH is 90% of an automatic purchase for me, so I'll be checking out "astonishing".


That was excellent, lurker. See, one of the biggest problems I've had with Morrison's run isn't Morrison, but his fanatic followers "interpreting" Morrison in the X-books, pulling nonsense out of their rear-ends, *oh, Grant means this,* and *Grant believes in this,so it must equal that*. Morrison DID have some symbolic content, as you so expertly point out, and he did have some shining moments, and he did put together some interesting ideas, but I'd say 50% of what his followers are claiming is some great multi-layered "meta-text" is BS. Or, rather, a lot of what Morrison apparently started to portray and tried to make multi-layered, didn't work, for many of the reasons you outline above.

Your analysis of how Morrison tripped himself up in "Planet X" for example, according to what I've heard, is right on the money. I would only add that there was a measure of "shoddiness" about "Planet X" as well, and blaming everything on Kick/Sublime doesn't solve the problem.

What you outline is exactly what I have to give MOrrison credit for. His use of the Chakras, his use of Biblical symoblism. Give Claremont credit for introducing the Phoenix as fiery angel and Tiphereth of the Sephiroth (and the solar plexus chakra). Morrison botched the connection to the kabbalah, and I really laugh when I read fans trying to piece that one together. As you say, Moore did a much more exact, careful, and insightful job of merging the paths of the tree of life, the ladies of the major arcana, and the chakras. In other words, when Morrison gives some thought and time to the symmetry and synchronicity of his symbols and meanings in his stories, he's good. WHen he makes a half-assed effort, or makes a superficial attempt to throw symbols together, putting plot and character second, he falls flat on his face. In my opinion, of course.

Several other forums went throuoght the same stuff

Keep the faith its spelt Kabbalah

Stay Whirly

lots of essayists out there some are better than others.

Some other forums I belong to shred the Kabbalah link even more - I look forward to posting them.

^LOL!

that's a long ass post!

Originally posted by Pointinel
^LOL!

that's a long ass post! Not only that. . but that was supposed to shred the link?

Looked more like it reenforced it. . .

Poor Whirly, trying so hard to acheive something, but wound up doing the opposite.

no2 sad. . .

Originally posted by Piedmon
In a city environment, there's cover and terrain to consider. A "city," supports a huge variety of different places to stage a fight, so where woul this be? In the middle of a street? Even if Havok didn't care about innocent life and was going to use his maximum potential, Wolverine can use oncoming traffic as a screen to hide himself, slip around Havok and stab him from behind. Wolverine is a trained stealth fighter, and the only one in this fight with hyper-senses.I said cityscape not city - there are no random people walking and driving around - no one ever assumes there to be random bystanders in any standard vs fight when people say city environment. No prep so they both start in the same location.
Originally posted by Piedmon
I did... you said it at the end there..... my point is you think just about anyone with superpowers could beat Wolverine. What makes him so dangerous isn't his powers, but the skills he couples with them. Black Panther doesn't really have superpowers now does he? There are people with super powers I think he'd beat.

He's got super-weaponry, it's close enough.

Originally posted by Piedmon
He's got super-weaponry, it's close enough. You are really grasping here. . .

Captain America by that same token has the Supersoldier serum and your allmighty sheild. . . That would count then too. . .

Whatever. If xmarks says he doesn't hate Wolverine, that's good enough for me. But I still think he seriously underestimates his capabilities.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Not only that. . but that was supposed to shred the link?

Looked more like it reenforced it. . .

Poor Whirly, trying so hard to acheive something, but wound up doing the opposite.

no2 sad. . .

Not really it shows no Kabbalah link at all.

"What you outline is exactly what I have to give Morrison credit for. His use of the Chakras, his use of Biblical symbolism. Give Claremont credit for introducing the Phoenix as fiery angel and Tiphereth of the Sephiroth (and the solar plexus chakra). Morrison botched the connection to the kabbalah, and I really laugh when I read fans trying to piece that one together. As you say, Moore did a much more exact, careful, and insightful job of merging the paths of the tree of life, the ladies of the major arcana, and the chakras. In other words, when Morrison gives some thought and time to the symmetry and synchronicity of his symbols and meanings in his stories, he's good. WHen he makes a half-assed effort, or makes a superficial attempt to throw symbols together, putting plot and character second, he falls flat on his face. In my opinion, of course."



It does show an attempt at Angels etc and the writers fumbling the ball on the Kabbalah, like the omega point read it all

Poor old Crehosk only listens to one forums expert - I know many and this is all of there opinions as the post above states and provides evidence. The writer of the post is by the way a comparative religion major.





Keep the faith



Stay Whirly

lots more posts shred it also

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Not really it shows no Kabbalah link at all.

"What you outline is exactly what I have to give Morrison credit for. His use of the Chakras, his use of Biblical symbolism. Give Claremont credit for introducing the Phoenix as fiery angel and Tiphereth of the Sephiroth (and the solar plexus chakra). Morrison botched the connection to the kabbalah, and I really laugh when I read fans trying to piece that one together. As you say, Moore did a much more exact, careful, and insightful job of merging the paths of the tree of life, the ladies of the major arcana, and the chakras. In other words, when Morrison gives some thought and time to the symmetry and synchronicity of his symbols and meanings in his stories, he's good. WHen he makes a half-assed effort, or makes a superficial attempt to throw symbols together, putting plot and character second, he falls flat on his face. In my opinion, of course."



It does show an attempt at Angels etc and the writers fumbling the ball on the Kabbalah, like the omega point read it all

Poor old Crehosk only listens to one forums expert - I know many and this is all of there opinions as the post above states and provides evidence. The writer of the post is by the way a comparative religion major.





Keep the faith



Stay Whirly

lots more posts shred it also

Yeah. . . connects to chakra and tree of life but nooo kabbalah connection . . uh huh. . .

http://www.crystalinks.com/tolandman.gif


riiiiiight . . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah. . . connects to chakra and tree of life but nooo kabbalah connection . . uh huh. . .

http://www.crystalinks.com/tolandman.gif


riiiiiight . . .

Chakras and the tree of life are part of lots of religions - don't argue with me argue with the evidence this is a quality post.



read it and understand

Chakra is the Sanskrit work for circular motion. According to Tantrism, a chakra is a spherical energy centre affected by everything around us. In Hindu Tantrism there are seven main chakras, while in Buddhist Tantrism there are five, all arrayed along the vertebral column. The chakras are supposed to be the points from which the "ethereal" vital energy of the astral body flows (the astral body, that trope from classic Marvel which Dr. Strange, Xavier and even Magneto are so keen to switch into).
>
> The chakra of the crown (top of the head) is called Sahasrara, and it resonates with the energy of wisdom, insight, and TRUTH. It is also referred to as "the many-petalled lotus".
>
> Tantrism tries to "open" the chakras, by making the passive, "earthly" energy situated at the lowest chakra (represented by the snake Kundalini) clamber up the spine. The hardest one to open is of course the uppermost one, the lotus. Jean's mutation, which would allow her to tap into the/a Phoenix entity, is that her chakras are open. That's "the mind over matter" thingy she herself identifies with telekinesis (when she addresses the U-men while stopping their onslaught against the X-mansion).
>
> For more superheroines with chakra-derived powers, see Multi-girl from Alan Moore's "Top 10". Or the issue from Moore's "Promethea" where Promethea has tantric sex with her magical mentor Jack Faust.
>
> (That mister Morrison tends to get so jerky when he refers to Moore's work may have to do with the fact that they are natural competitors, being interested in the same stuff and such. Moore's writing is better IMO, more human and accessible).
>
> So Jeannie has ultimate enlightenment built into her genome. That's why it's probably deliberate that Morrison writes her as "angelic"*. When the Phoenix appears, she waltzes around as an avenging angel, uncompromisingly truthful. That's all she tells Bishop during "Murder", and that's all she does when she interrupts Emma's psychic romp with Cyke. she peels away all the layers of armour and lies of the ice queen, revealing her flaws and therefore redeeming her: Emma admits that she's shallow, manipulative, and that she's in love. The execution is less than ideal and Emma remains pretty faithful to her bitchy self after that, but I find the concept is kinda touching.
>
> (* "seraphic", to be more specific. Seraphs are referred to as the most exalted angels of all, fiery spirits often depicted around the crowned Godhead. Since the serried ranks of Phoenixes (Phoenices?) from the last issue look a lot like a heavenly host of sorts, the "white Phoenix of the crown" thing may be a play on words).
>
> Once the Phoenix connects with her, Jean practically becomes the only diamond without flaws, the one character without doubts or fears. Jean White, as it is. Even when Mags bumps her off, the Phoenix remains "invictus". That's not too "relatable", but since in Morrison's run mutation/change is synonymous with conflict, I suppose he needed to place a character above the din of the struggle. You have to wrap up your run, you know.
>
> (BTW, Quentin turns/taps indeed into a Phoenix-like entity when he dies, feeding off the "humus" left in the wake of Kick overindulgence. That's why Xorn says "a flower of light is opening in your head". He could have said "a lotus of light" too).
>
> -Why the run feels so disjointed:
>
> OK, she's not supposed to be omniscient, and yet, if Jean is so swell, how come she does not uncover Sublime's little scam with her searing glance? The fact is that Morrison seems to realize his ominous wild card is too big for the stories he's telling, specially after "Imperial". The result is that Jean gets really little time on camera. That cheapens the love triangle with Scott and Emma.
>
> And that's the problem with the run seen as a whole. The motive of "thinking outside the box" is central in the stories, and yet, when taken to its logical extreme, leads (as a dying, transfigured Quentin says) to "rooms that are larger than the world". That's fine and dandy in another context (the Invisibles, for example), but it does not gel all too well with X-corp, murder mysteries and restive teenagers. For the sake of closure, Morrison drops the ball on the motives he has established early on and shortchanges the reader by enacting a cosmic endgame where everybody discards their masks and very additional depth is gained in exchange.
>
> (As for the cosmic endgame: the idea of Jean as deluded servant of the Beast and victorious Phoenix resembles Promethea's double role as Babylonian whore and angel of Judgement Day. Again, Moore and Morrison share the same niche).
>
> There's no real crescendo leading up to the apocalyptic finale. Morrison wastes his biggest shot at the beginning, with Genosha's destruction*. The dissonance that is "Planet X" does not elicit a sense of foreboding or resolution, only of restlessness, and any dramatic effect it aims for is tarnished by indulgent parody and the shoddiness of "Assault on weapon plus".
>
> (*The giant sentinels are a variation of the hoary old motive of machine development outstripping biological evolution. Perhaps because it is regarded as "vulgar", the idea is only dealt with cursorily afterwards, in the form of nano-sentinels, E.V.A. etc.)
>
> -Diamonds are forever?
>
> I end up feeling that Morrison's run is, well, quite flawed. But it does shine at places, and it has piqued my interest in a franchise I'd always found too commercial and convoluted. Cassaday on art OTOH is 90% of an automatic purchase for me, so I'll be checking out "astonishing".


That was excellent, lurker. See, one of the biggest problems I've had with Morrison's run isn't Morrison, but his fanatic followers "interpreting" Morrison in the X-books, pulling nonsense out of their rear-ends, *oh, Grant means this,* and *Grant believes in this,so it must equal that*. Morrison DID have some symbolic content, as you so expertly point out, and he did have some shining moments, and he did put together some interesting ideas, but I'd say 50% of what his followers are claiming is some great multi-layered "meta-text" is BS. Or, rather, a lot of what Morrison apparently started to portray and tried to make multi-layered, didn't work, for many of the reasons you outline above.

Your analysis of how Morrison tripped himself up in "Planet X" for example, according to what I've heard, is right on the money. I would only add that there was a measure of "shoddiness" about "Planet X" as well, and blaming everything on Kick/Sublime doesn't solve the problem.

What you outline is exactly what I have to give MOrrison credit for. His use of the Chakras, his use of Biblical symoblism. Give Claremont credit for introducing the Phoenix as fiery angel and Tiphereth of the Sephiroth (and the solar plexus chakra). Morrison botched the connection to the kabbalah, and I really laugh when I read fans trying to piece that one together. As you say, Moore did a much more exact, careful, and insightful job of merging the paths of the tree of life, the ladies of the major arcana, and the chakras. In other words, when Morrison gives some thought and time to the symmetry and synchronicity of his symbols and meanings in his stories, he's good. WHen he makes a half-assed effort, or makes a superficial attempt to throw symbols together, putting plot and character second, he falls flat on his face. In my opinion, of course.

Several other forums went throuoght the same stuff

Keep the faith its spelt Kabbalah

Stay Whirly

lots of essayists out there some are better than others.

Some other forums I belong to shred the Kabbalah link even more - I look forward to posting them.


__________________
herd behaviour is a comical thingchallenge your ideas!

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Chakras and the tree of life are part of lots of religions - don't argue with me argue with the evidence this is a quality post.



read it and understand And how many include hebrew?

Did you try understanding the post?

No seriously, this once again sounds like you copy and pasted something from somewhere else, without understanding it, sort of like your copy and pasting from the kabbalah FAQ thing, where it talk about different spellings, and then you contradict it. Just like you did here, it seems to reenforce the kabalistic link, and you say it shreds it. . .

And how does the above discussion have anything to do with this thread?

wheres gs, the most hated{and rightly so} member on this forum and his most hated characyter{again even more rightly so} the new pheonix retcon.

Batman has money and women. I can see why he'd have haters but he doesn't have powers...LAME!!!!

Originally posted by leonheartmm
wheres gs, the most hated{and rightly so} member on this forum and his most hated characyter{again even more rightly so} the new pheonix retcon.

Says you of all people

Grow up mate

Back on topic id say Wolverine is hated the most. Fans do tend to hype him up a bit but that doesnt mean people should ignore what the character is actually capable of.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And how many include hebrew?

Did you try understanding the post?

No seriously, this once again sounds like you copy and pasted something from somewhere else, without understanding it, sort of like your copy and pasting from the kabbalah FAQ thing, where it talk about different spellings, and then you contradict it. Just like you did here, it seems to reenforce the kabalistic link, and you say it shreds it. . .

not at all read it and understand it just proves you know even less than GS

Keep the faith

its spelt Kabbalah (at least you spell that right)

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
not at all read it and understand it just proves you know even less than GS

Keep the faith

its spelt Kabbalah (at least you spell that right)

Stay Whirly



yawn

Originally posted by Creshosk
yawn

indeed just like the omega point it was done terribly and bears no resemblence to anything...........
Whats funnier still is Jeans Omnipotence is shot to pieces in that post also - and the suggestion the Phoenix are really only tools to perform specified tasks is extended very strongly.

Read and understand it

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

I have never doubted Morrisons intentions merely GS and yours understanding and his and Claremonts execution

Oh and atools place in the scheme of things - if it has to lose sometimes It has little autonomy - If its in shards (which it is) it can't be part of god
Enjoy -

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
indeed just like the omega point it was done terribly and bears no resemblence to anything...........Obviously it resembles it enough for people to pick up on it.

So we have that whole "flawed execution based on a flawed understanding of a..." etc

It doesn't NEED to be perfect for that to be what it was based on. And what its based on doesn't NEED to be perfect either.

so once again, if I were to create a world based on medival veiws and sciences where they were right. does that mean that it is not based on that? If I do it poorly, but enough semblence is there for it to be picked up upon does that mean that it wasn't based on that?

So, as it turns out once AGAIN, this attack on the connection to the Kabbalah (like the omega point theory attack) is based SOLEY on your opinion.

And I don't care if there ARE other boards and places where people share your OPINION. . .

Because it is just that, an opinion and nothing more.

A botched connection doesn't mean no connection.


Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Whats funnier still is Jeans Omnipotence is shot to pieces in that post also - and the suggestion the Phoenix are really only tools to perform specified tasks is extended very strongly. And that's what we've been saying for some time now.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I have never doubted Morrisons intentions merely GS and yours understanding and his and Claremonts execution So you do see that there is a connection, however bad it might be, and are attacking those who point out the connection?

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Oh and atools place in the scheme of things - if it has to lose sometimes It has little autonomy - If its in shards (which it is) it can't be part of god
Enjoy - Looks like its your understanding that is in serious doubt here. Not GS's or mine.

Though I have to ask what your major beef with Phoenix is. what happened to cause you to go on such a tiraid that you feel you have to attack opposing veiws so viciously as to attack a person on their spelling. Is she such a threat to you that you have to stoop to such tactics as trolling in unrelated threads, to creating threads for the sole intent of continuing this ongoing attack?

Fittingly enough your ongoing filibuster in THIS thread shows that you are truly NOTHING more that a hater of a character.

So, to that end while she may not have the most haters, she certainly has one of the most vocal ones. YOU.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Obviously it resembles it enough for people to pick up on it.

So we have that whole "flawed execution based on a flawed understanding of a..." etc

It doesn't NEED to be perfect for that to be what it was based on. And what its based on doesn't NEED to be perfect either.

so once again, if I were to create a world based on medival veiws and sciences where they were right. does that mean that it is not based on that? If I do it poorly, but enough semblence is there for it to be picked up upon does that mean that it wasn't based on that?

So, as it turns out once AGAIN, this attack on the connection to the Kabbalah (like the omega point theory attack) is based SOLEY on your opinion.

And I don't care if there ARE other boards and places where people share your OPINION. . .

Because it is just that, an opinion and nothing more.

A botched connection doesn't mean no connection.


And that's what we've been saying for some time now.

So you do see that there is a connection, however bad it might be, and are attacking those who point out the connection?

Looks like its your understanding that is in serious doubt here. Not GS's or mine.

Though I have to ask what your major beef with Phoenix is. what happened to cause you to go on such a tiraid that you feel you have to attack opposing veiws so viciously as to attack a person on their spelling. Is she such a threat to you that you have to stoop to such tactics as trolling in unrelated threads, to creating threads for the sole intent of continuing this ongoing attack?

Fittingly enough your ongoing filibuster in THIS thread shows that you are truly NOTHING more that a hater of a character.

So, to that end while she may not have the most haters, she certainly has one of the most vocal ones. YOU.

Read back and understand

Like with GS's omega point ideas they are a year out of date on comic forums and show misinterpretation.
I can't be bothered to pick out all the contradictions in your above post.
If its in shards its not forever Phoenix or even forever Jean
There are links to religious ideas but not to a "Kaballah" not even properly to the "Kabbalah". This is the problem I have and will always have.

A botched connection means botched understanding If its botched you can't make inferences from it, let alone extrapolate from it.

its still spelt Kabbalah

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Read back and understand I understand just fine. Obviously you didn't understand a word I just said.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Like with GS's omega point ideas they are a year out of date on comic forums and show misinterpretation. Fan's opinions out weight other fans opinions?

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I can't be bothered to pick out all the contradictions in your above post. You can't even be bothered to read it , or read it properly. So I'm not surprised you can't be bothered to try and counter it.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
If its in shards its not forever Phoenix Your opinion.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
or even forever Jean Still your opinion.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
There are links to religious ideas but not to a "Kaballah" not even properly to the "Kabbalah". Your opinion still

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
This is the problem I have and will always have. Is that you can't accept what's there.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
A botched connection means botched understanding but still a connection.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
its still spelt Kabbalah In your opinion.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Keep the faith

Stay Whirly That's rather fitting considering all things.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I understand just fine. Obviously you didn't understand a word I just said.

Fan's opinions out weight other fans opinions?

You can't even be bothered to read it , or read it properly. So I'm not surprised you can't be bothered to try and counter it.

Your opinion.

Still your opinion.

Your opinion still

but still a connection.

In your opinion.

That's rather fitting considering all things.

GS will tell you one fans opinion outweighs others on this forum, someone explained it didn't to him in another thread - I'll take a comparitive religion student over you me or GS on the Kabbalah. All search engines correct to Kabbalah (I trust there spelling more)

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
GS will tell you one fans opinion outweighs others on this forum, someone explained it didn't to him in another thread - I'll take a comparitive religion student over you me or GS on the Kabbalah. All search engines correct to Kabbalah (I trust there spelling more)

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly Oh yes because search engines know everything and the individual websites it pulls up do not. . . .

You're still formulating an opinion based on what the CR student said. Rather than what the CR student said.

So its still your opinion as opposed to the CR student.

Everyone hates Black Panther (they always trying to keep a brother down)

In the real world Superman is by far the most hated. Noone likes the invincible nice guy for some reason. They all love badass Wolverine and Batmen type characters.

In these forums it is probably Wolverine.

Yet they love the sentry...

Well he hardly fits the "all-powerful nice guy," stereotype so much as smashes it to pieces...

Originally posted by Piedmon
Well he hardly fits the "all-powerful nice guy," stereotype so much as smashes it to pieces...

Yet people whine about Superman being so invincible...

Eh, they're complaining without knowing what they're talking about. Mongul, Lobo, Darkseid, Captain Atom.... there are tons of characters who can give Superman a hard fight.

My point exactly...

C-master

/\/\/\ Don't take the lords name in vain.....

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh yes because search engines know everything and the individual websites it pulls up do not. . . .

You're still formulating an opinion based on what the CR student said. Rather than what the CR student said.

So its still your opinion as opposed to the CR student.

not at all we both agree on everything.

I spell it Kaballah and so does she Google and everyone else including Alan Moore

Search engines know a lot more about spelling than you or I or individual web sites.

read it again

I know its hard you were taken in Cresh, but

smile

Originally posted by black robb
C-master I do have alot of them as of late.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
not at all we both agree on everything.

I spell it Kaballah and so does she Google and everyone else including Alan Moore

Search engines know a lot more about spelling than you or I or individual web sites.

read it again

I know its hard you were taken in Cresh, but

smile And yet I'm going to still be relying on my own conclusions rather than hearsay from someone who is a hater of the character.

Ironic no? Your indirectly expressed hatred for the character has tainted your credibility ( and now the credibility of the CR Student). . . Funny how that works out.

Truthfully, i used to be Supermans staunchest defender in the view of reason. But then his writers went downhill with his comics. I have never ever disliked Superman because of his character. Lets clarify this. In fact, i don't like Wolverine fanboys simply because they seem to have a crush on the guy.....So sincere!! Bada$$ characters who say things and do things thats are cool or bada$$ to me is lame. Superman is a good guy, and i don't beef with that aspect of him. Constantly protecting those who fear and envy him.
My only problem with the character is how he gets the best toys. Golden child bias, i guess. He gets a truckload of powers, like his traditional ones H.Vision, invulnerability Super Strength, Speed, Flying, Ice Breath and with all that he is already a force to be reckoned with. Then he gets Mental martial arts, increased healing factor and is outgrowing his weakness to magic and knite. And if he isn't powerful enough, he can now take sunbaths to increase even more. Just my gripe. I liked him better when his writers put blocks on him. but he doesn't, and the justification is that he's a good guy, the epitome of what a hero should be and he should be so powerful. Plus the truth is, even when i was a big fan of his, me and friends would debate who could take who, and he'd always win. And he should with his moveset. Only hero stronger constantly would Silver Surfer. And to me thats boring. So his character itself isn't what i don't like. Just the way he gets the best presents under the tree, every g/damned year!!!
Spoiled brat....j/k

Superman has the most haters for this reason: he is the Icon, the symbol of the genre, the superhero of superheroes, occupying a position in the comic world and real world no other hero will ever achieve, and that just irks the bejeezes out of many, many people whose favorite hero Isn't Superman.

Wolverine might be number 2.

i could careless about my favorites position in the world. I just wish he could be beaten by another hero. If there was a fighting game featuring superheros, he'd have to be a secret char. Simply cuz of his moveset. Like a cheat code walking the comic panels.

*edit* oops sorry for the bump

MOST HATERS!!!
If anything Supes has the most **** suckers of all time!
And yes I'm proud to be a hater of his.

I just hate the guy cause he so DAMNED perfect and he gets EVERYTHING HANDED to him. Hell he never even has to lose or work for anything.
Who cares if you fight A list villains if your a god among men compared to them. He never really does anything heroic cause he's never really got anything to lose. Hell he's really has no weaknesses anymore so wheres the challenge? Now I know 10 supes fanboys will rush in to say he doesn't get everything and he lost a place he never even knew and that he is still vulnerable to kryptonite and magic but, these are the same guys that claim he can easily overcome them in vs threads all the time.

just my 2 cents

Well a ton of Superman's enemies are way more powerful than he is.

Most people who don't really look into comics probably hate Superman. We know he's not invincible, so we perceive Superman a lot different that a lot of other people. We don't just see the man of steel who can fly fast and throw cars, we also see the hundreds of characters who can make him their *****.

I would say that Wolverine and Sentry are two of the most hated characters on KMC. Most fan are either anti Wolvie or pro Wolvie. Personally I love them both.

No one hates Ghost Rider, do they?

I sure hope Superman, that ******* pig ****er.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I sure hope Superman, that ******* pig ****er.

You hope him?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I sure hope Superman, that ******* pig ****er. I'm guessing an anti character team/thread isn't allowed?

If I'm wrong who'd be interested in joining mine against Clark?
you can pm me if you like. I love to talk with fellow anti supes addicts.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I sure hope Superman, that ******* pig ****er. Who in the bejesus is that girl? She looks very pretty! (In your Av)

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Who in the bejesus is that girl? She looks very pretty! (In your Av)

That's my girlfriend. Thank you, I shall give her the compliment.

Originally posted by Entity
I'm guessing an anti character team/thread isn't allowed?

If I'm wrong who'd be interested in joining mine against Clark?
you can pm me if you like. I love to talk with fellow anti supes addicts.

Actually, i don't hate him that much...I just enjoy saying I do. I mean, he is the kind of guy you want to repeatedly kick in the nuts.

Originally posted by llagrok
You hope him? It's a sort of English phrasing, it doesn't really mean that I hope that it is him...it was just a gimmick...to make my post funny. Like calling Superman a pig ****er. Dunno...that's how I roll.


In all seriousnessness though, I think it is Superman, lots of people hate him for more or less reasonable reasons.

Kinda surprised of the results. Pick ten random threads from the first page and at least 5 of those threads should contain Wolverine bashing, or mostly bashing against Wolverine fanboys.

Originally posted by Morridini
Kinda surprised of the results. Pick ten random threads from the first page and at least 5 of those threads should contain Wolverine bashing, or mostly bashing against Wolverine fanboys. That's a different phenomenon though. Wolverine fanboys are an extremely nasty kind of fanboy and very deserving of hate. Wolverine is a ****ing cool character.

Though he gets his share of hate.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's my girlfriend. Thank you, I shall give her the compliment.

Thou art Welcome, my friend

And she is very deserving of the Compliment (I hope that didn't seem lewd or perverted or stupid of me to say in anyway.. it's meant with the utmost innocence).

I think I'm going to make an av of MY girlfriend

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Thou art Welcome, my friend

And she is very deserving of the Compliment (I hope that didn't seem lewd or perverted or stupid of me to say in anyway.. it's meant with the utmost innocence).

Haha, she appreciates it, as would most girls I assume.

id say thanos and darkseid should have been in this discussion to ,lord knows i dislike both of them
hulk is pretty hated to but mainly cause of peoples misconceptions
i like wolverine,superman and batman
i just hate the fact batman wins as much as he does, cause lets face it hes outmatched by 99.999999999% of his opponents and still pulls a W

Originally posted by Bardock42
Haha, she appreciates it, as would most girls I assume.


Question, how did you put that picture on there without it saying "The stupid file is too big"?

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Question, how did you put that picture on there without it saying "The stupid file is too big"?

Scary amount of questions you're asking.

Darkseid and Thanos are beloved by millions.

Everyone hates Hulk.

Originally posted by llagrok
Scary amount of questions you're asking.

Darkseid and Thanos are beloved by millions.

Everyone hates Hulk. Scary amount of wrong you are. I absolutely Love hulk.


And I'm trying to put a picture of MY hot ass girlfriend on here.

Originally posted by llagrok
Everyone hates Hulk.

Not in the slightest. A considerable number of people love Hulk. Why do you think there been such a shortage of complaining about WWH?

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Question, how did you put that picture on there without it saying "The stupid file is too big"?


Well, you could use an open source program like "IrfanView" to resize the picture and if you save it as JPG it should be small enough to be accepted on KMC.

wolverine

Originally posted by llagrok
Scary amount of questions you're asking.

Darkseid and Thanos are beloved by millions.

Everyone hates Hulk. ^^ well not everyone has common sense

Ironman.

Not that it's deserved, however.

I like Iron Man, no matter what anyone else says.

Originally posted by strengthkills
^^ well not everyone has common sense Ironic?

Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine

Untrue. He may be disliked by this board in particular, but over all, Wolverine is Marvel's second most popular character.

Hmm... not to throw a spanner in the works... but having a large, or in this case second largest, number of fans wouldn't necessarily preclude also having the largest number of "anti-fans." Not that I would necessarily agree with saying "Wolverine has the most haters."

Darkseid, Apoc, Cyclops, I can name a few.

Darkseid: Hated on by Marvel fans cause he not only pre-dates Thanos, he can assrape Thanos in a fight.

Apocalypse: Hated on this board by well....,almost everyone. durlaugh Partially because Marvel is wrecking his character, and because of stupid shit like the table......

Cyclops: Hated, but I forget why.

Vulcan: Hated, but probably deserves it.

Bart Allen: Hated because DC ****ed up his character. Which is too bad, he had potential.

Karate Kid is hated

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... not to throw a spanner in the works... but having a large, or in this case second largest, number of fans wouldn't necessarily preclude also having the largest number of "anti-fans." Not that I would necessarily agree with saying "Wolverine has the most haters."

Well, you can prove anything with facts, can't you?

Originally posted by strengthkills
^^ well not everyone has common sense

Oh yeah, common sense to love the baby that smashes everything.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Darkseid, Apoc, Cyclops, I can name a few.

Darkseid: Hated on by Marvel fans cause he not only pre-dates Thanos, he can assrape Thanos in a fight.

Apocalypse: Hated on this board by well....,almost everyone. durlaugh Partially because Marvel is wrecking his character, and because of stupid shit like the table......

Cyclops: Hated, but I forget why.

Vulcan: Hated, but probably deserves it.

Bart Allen: Hated because DC ****ed up his character. Which is too bad, he had potential.

Apocalypse gets a lot of hate

Jason Todd......

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Darkseid, Apoc, Cyclops, I can name a few.

Darkseid: Hated on by Marvel fans cause he not only pre-dates Thanos, he can assrape Thanos in a fight.

Apocalypse: Hated on this board by well....,almost everyone. durlaugh Partially because Marvel is wrecking his character, and because of stupid shit like the table......

Cyclops: Hated, but I forget why.

Vulcan: Hated, but probably deserves it.

Bart Allen: Hated because DC ****ed up his character. Which is too bad, he had potential.
Darkseid- I don't think the whole Thanos thing is the whole reason for the hate. Probably offers some hate but theirs a lot of bullshit coming from the other side though.
Apocalypse- He sucks
Cyclops- hated because hes a cheating sob that for some reason is the only person that both has a superiority and inferiority complex running concurrently.
Bart Allen -I still like Bart.

Just going by what i've seen on this forum.........wolverine

Supes.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/411661_1-the-peoples-list-of-most-b-hated-b-characters

Out of those? Definitely Wolverine. Yeah, Superman is hated too, but that's only natural. Wolverine is a good character.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, you could use an open source program like "IrfanView" to resize the picture and if you save it as JPG it should be small enough to be accepted on KMC. Thank you!

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Thank you!

Is that your girlfriend rick?

Originally posted by Soljer
Untrue. He may be disliked by this board in particular, but over all, Wolverine is Marvel's second most popular character.
I assumed we were talking about the board

On this board I would say Wolverine, out of all those characters i would have to say I hate Wolverine the most (Though i don't actually hate Wolverine, I actually quite like him) its mainly the unreasonable fans which I feel ruin his character, at least for me. What makes me laugh though is a group of people i know hate Wolverine because all he is "is a basic badass who kills stuff and drinks loads and has no depth" and I really hate it when people say a certain character has no depth when they clearly have never read anything revolving around that character, I mean Wolverine has loads of back story...then they say they like the punisher even though what they say about wolverine is at face value also describing him lol, people also say the same about the Hulk and the Thing saying they have no depth and just smash stuff, why do people always assume things about characters after only reading them in crossovers?

While I can find Superman boring occasionally I still like him, especially in films and cartoons for some reason he seems far more interesting in them to me.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
So which character has the most haters?

Hulk should be up there.

Originally posted by llagrok
Is that your girlfriend rick?

Oh yeah. Isn't she the most beautiful treasure on the face of the earth.

(She would KILL me if she found out I made this picture public )

On this site?

Superman... easily.

Originally posted by Pure Poison
Hulk should be up there.

At least half of that is due to dumbshits like Strengthkills and Xmeat. But, WWH is probably doing a lot of good to repair his rep. Plus people want to see him murder Tony Stark.