HULK vs FLASH

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leonheartmm
has this been done before?

Juntai
Flash.

RAGE17
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=351203&highlight=hulk+vs+flash

Gandhi_of_KMC
Infinite mass punch KABOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cosmic Cube
Flash is too fast to be hit by the Hulk. If Hulk is in his normal state, Flash can knock him out with an 'infinite mass punch.'

Yes, it's been done. Use the search bar at the bottom of the screen.

scotsmn
Thunderclap > Flash. Hulk > infinity punch. His fist would shatter against the Hulk's bulk.

Juntai
Originally posted by scotsmn
Thunderclap > Flash. Hulk > infinity punch. His fist would shatter against the Hulk's bulk. Nope, Flash could dodge the soundwaves or vibrate through them, and to Infinite Mass Punch, Flash doesn't actually touch the opponent.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by scotsmn
Thunderclap > Flash. Hulk > infinity punch. His fist would shatter against the Hulk's bulk.

Interesting theory, but I've heard the Flash doesn't actually punch people with his hand when he uses the infinity mass punch. Sounds a little fishy, but I never looked it up.

But one thing is true. It's consistantly shown in comics that when Flash runs into something, he can hurt himself. (broken nose, etc.)

scotsmn
If he doesn't touch the opponent, then what does he do?

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
Nope, Flash could dodge the soundwaves or vibrate through them, and to Infinite Mass Punch, Flash doesn't actually touch the opponent.

Though I doubt Flash can actually vibrate through sound waves, it's not the sound of the thunderclap that's effective. It's the force.

Besides, Hulk would be standing still compared to Flash. While Hulk is thunderclapping, Flash could run behind him before Hulk even noticed he moved.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by scotsmn
If he doesn't touch the opponent, then what does he do?

Tell him, Juntai.

Juntai
Originally posted by scotsmn
If he doesn't touch the opponent, then what does he do? He transfers the energy of the speed-force and the reality that's folded around him to his opponent, which is done before his hand even lands because it forms a barrier around him.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Though I doubt Flash can actually vibrate through sound waves, it's not the sound of the thunderclap that's effective. It's the force.

Besides, Hulk would be standing still compared to Flash. While Hulk is thunderclapping, Flash could run behind him before Hulk even noticed he moved. I'd don't recall the issue, but Flash actually ran UP soundwaves like a staircase before to simulate a form of flying. Though he's not used the ability more than the once that I know of.....then again, he rarely needs to.


And in either case, he could enter the speedforce and the force of the thunderclap would be useless, even besides the standing still thing..

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
He transfers the energy of the speed-force and the reality that's folded around him to his opponent, which is done before his hand even lands because it forms a barrier around him.

I'm curious; where is this explained?

I've read the comic that he first used the punch in, and it didn't explain how speed force energy is used in the mechanics of the punch.

In the Hulk's defense, the punch would cleary have a limited effect on the Hulk, considering that it didn't badly injure the White Martian Flash first used the punch on. The Infinite Mass Punch isn't a kill-all.

scotsmn
Alright, so he delivers a couple of these punches to increase the damage he would normally deliver with his 10lb human arm. A thunderclap should still be able to take him out, ESPECIALLY if he tries to phase through it. All the particles that make up the air are moved back and forth with vibrations which could cause the flash to simply fall apart.

Besides the thunderclap, what about hulk striking the ground so hard that crap flies in all directions? Flash IS made of flesh and blood right?

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I'm curious; where is this explained?

I've read the comic that he first used the punch in, and it didn't explain how speed force energy is used in the mechanics of the punch.

In the Hulk's defense, the punch would cleary have a limited effect on the Hulk, considering that it didn't badly injure the White Martian Flash first used the punch on. The Infinite Mass Punch isn't a kill-all. He DID explain it when he punched the White Martian, you might want to read it again. He also did a couple of times in his series. And ... it sent the Martian flying through space...
lol.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
I'd don't recall the issue, but Flash actually ran UP soundwaves like a staircase before to simulate a form of flying. Though he's not used the ability more than the once that I know of.....then again, he rarely needs to.


And in either case, he could enter the speedforce and the force of the thunderclap would be useless, even besides the standing still thing..

But Flash (at least at his normal levels) doesn't just warp in and out of the speed force. He has to accelerate to light speed. Flash ususally doesn't travel at lightspeed either. He often cruises at high mach speeds.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
He DID explain it when he punched the White Martian, you might want to read it again. He also did a couple of times in his series. And ... it sent the Martian flying through space...
lol. I'll have to take another look.

True, it sent him flying though space, but it didn't do significant physical damage to him (other than KOing him.)

Can you reference me to some other issues wherein he used the punch?

Juntai
Originally posted by scotsmn
Alright, so he delivers a couple of these punches to increase the damage he would normally deliver with his 10lb human arm. A thunderclap should still be able to take him out, ESPECIALLY if he tries to phase through it. All the particles that make up the air are moved back and forth with vibrations which could cause the flash to simply fall apart.

Besides the thunderclap, what about hulk striking the ground so hard that crap flies in all directions? Flash IS made of flesh and blood right? Flash can do Superman/Hulk level punches with the infinite mass punch, it's an EXTREME amount of energy.
And when inside the speedforce fully, the sound vibrations/force of a thunderclap is a million times too slow for him. Stomping the ground wouldn't help much either, since the fight would likely be over before he could even lift his leg, if Flash is to optimum capacity.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
But Flash (at least at his normal levels) doesn't just warp in and out of the speed force. He has to accelerate to light speed. Flash ususally doesn't travel at lightspeed either. He often cruises at high mach speeds. Flash CAN hop in and out of the speedforce, and can bring anything to the battle that is under his power as per forum rules .. it is still NORMAL Flash, not powered up in any manner. But I do agree, he doesn't usually always travel at lightspeed, he doesn't always have a need to.

scotsmn
Does the "infinity punch" wear him out? Would he be able to continue to deliver these over and over without exhaustion? It seems like he has to go to a lot of trouble to deliver punches with similar power to hulks normal punches. Besides, if he's hoping for a KO he's going to need to jump up to hit Hulk in the head. Wouldn't he ricochette away after contact and end up in space considering the speed he's traveling at?

Juntai
Originally posted by scotsmn
Does the "infinity punch" wear him out? Would he be able to continue to deliver these over and over without exhaustion? It seems like he has to go to a lot of trouble to deliver punches with similar power to hulks normal punches. Besides, if he's hoping for a KO he's going to need to jump up to hit Hulk in the head. Wouldn't he ricochette away after contact and end up in space considering the speed he's traveling at? No because Flash doesn't hit you, the energy does, and as he's mainlined to the speedforce, he's in near complete control of it as he can manipulate and even share many of it's benefits. He could also touch Hulk and steal all of his particles' energy, leaving him motionless aand helpless. And yes he can do it without exhaustion.

Juntai
I don't like Flash vs fights, because even not powered up... if he brings his full range of powers, he's next to unbeatable by anyone but the most powerful of characters.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by scotsmn
Does the "infinity punch" wear him out? Would he be able to continue to deliver these over and over without exhaustion? It seems like he has to go to a lot of trouble to deliver punches with similar power to hulks normal punches. Besides, if he's hoping for a KO he's going to need to jump up to hit Hulk in the head. Wouldn't he ricochette away after contact and end up in space considering the speed he's traveling at? Wow. You're bringing up a lot of good arguments. Flash isn't going to KO Hulk by punching in the kneecap. Hulk's about 10 feet tall. He can hold his ground too. Vector's matter repulsion beam can move planets through space at the speed of light. But he couldn't move Hulk.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Wow. You're bringing up a lot of good arguments. Flash isn't going to KO Hulk by punching in the kneecap. Hulk's about 10 feet tall. He can hold his ground too. Vector's matter repulsion beam can move planets through space at the speed of light. But he couldn't move Hulk. And Superman can smash planets into pieces, and he can trade blows toe to toe with a martian, and Flash punched one through space. ???

It still comes down to the fact that Hulk has no real way to deal with an opponent like Flash, and Flash .. if need, could still drag him to the end of time.

The Ion
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Wow. You're bringing up a lot of good arguments. Flash isn't going to KO Hulk by punching in the kneecap.
Does Hulk have testicles?

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
Flash CAN hop in and out of the speedforce, and can bring anything to the battle that is under his power as per forum rules .. it is still NORMAL Flash, not powered up in any manner. But I do agree, he doesn't usually always travel at lightspeed, he doesn't always have a need to.

There's a forum rule that allows Flash to bring whatever he wants to a battle? What the f**k?

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by The Ion
Does Hulk have testicles?

confused

Uh, maybe?

Ouch...

They're super durable testicles, though. smartass

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
There's a forum rule that allows Flash to bring whatever he wants to a battle? What the f**k? It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.

It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

scotsmn
This power seems pretty rediculous. In this case, Hulk jumps up to the moon, jumps back full force and slams into the earth so hard the atmoshphere catches fire incinerates the Flash.

Besides, the "speed force" may not work on Hulk. He has proven several times that he is not subject to the laws of physics. For example, he can change trajectory in mid air with nothing to bounce off of.

I don't think all the Flash's horsemen or all Flash's men could put Flash together again once he tires or trips and gets hit just once.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
And Superman can smash planets into pieces, and he can trade blows toe to toe with a martian, and Flash punched one through space. ???

It still comes down to the fact that Hulk has no real way to deal with an opponent like Flash, and Flash .. if need, could still drag him to the end of time.

Superman doesn't smash planets into peices at his normal strength levels. He's not even strong enough to move War World at his base strength. Besides, he ususally holds back against villains.

I highly doubt that the white Martian that was imitating Zum had super-strength.

That doesn't change the fact that Huk was able to remain unmoved by a force that can propel planets at the speed of light. He was even able to walk forward through it.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.

It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

I've read that part. I never said Flash couldn't speedblitz. confused

Where does it say Flash can bring whatever he wants to a fight?

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Superman doesn't smash planets into peices at his normal strength levels. He's not even strong enough to move War World at his base strength. Besides, he ususally holds back against villains.

I highly doubt that the white Martian that was imitating Zum had super-strength.

That doesn't change the fact that Huk was able to remain unmoved by a force that can propel planets at the speed of light. He was even able to walk forward through it. I'm pretty sure this was a moon of Jupiter, which are planet Earth sized, I might add.. but even if I'm remembering wrong, it doesn't really matter how much thicker it is, enough force to do that he's doing he could easily continue through regardless, because size doesn't reflect density.

All white Martians have super strength, they have a standard powerset exactly like Martian Manhunters but a few minor changes, like their shape changing works different.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I've read that part. I never said Flash couldn't speedblitz. confused

Where does it say Flash can bring whatever he wants to a fight? These are Flash's everyday skills, and can use them. That's what I'm saying. He's not especially powered up when doing these feats of time travel, ftls, infinite mass punch, stealing kinetic energy... Flash is a static character so could use any of these things.
You were saying Flash can't hop into the speedforce at will, just because he doesn't always...and in fact he CAN in comics, and this battle.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
I'm pretty sure this was a moon of Jupiter, which are planet Earth sized, I might add.. but even if I'm remembering wrong, it doesn't really matter how much thicker it is, enough force to do that he's doing he could easily continue through regardless, because size doesn't reflect density.

All white Martians have super strength, they have a standard powerset exactly like Martian Manhunters but a few minor changes, like their shape changing works different.

That's one of Saturn's moons. Saturn's largest moon, Titan, has a mass of about 150 quadrillion tons, and it has a diameter of about 3,200 miles. Mostly composed of ice with a mean density of about 1.88. The Earth is about three or four times denser, and it has the mass of about 100 Titans..

None of Jupiter's moons or Saturn's moons are earth-sized. There are no moons in the solar system that are the size of Earth. Still avery impressive on Superman's part.

White Martians are considerably weaker than Green Martians. There aren't any white Martians that are as strong as Jonn'.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
These are Flash's everyday skills, and can use them. That's what I'm saying. He's not especially powered up when doing these feats of time travel, ftls, infinite mass punch, stealing kinetic energy... Flash is a static character so could use any of these things.
You were saying Flash can't hop into the speedforce at will, just because he doesn't always...and in fact he CAN in comics, and this battle.

Can you give any issue numbers so I can look this stuff up?

Give some issue numbers of other comics that he used the punch in.

scotsmn
Either way, I can't see Flash being able to hurt Hulk and I can't see Hulk catching Flash. Looks like a tie.

leonidas
wow, cc -- you're working overtime lately! go hulk!!

ps-i'd love to jump in, but i HATE flash threads!! all this infinity punch crap and dragging to the ends of time . . . and frabkly, i don't know enough about flash to be able to attempt to debunk all this crap.

i do have one question though -- if flash has all these abilities, how does captain boomerang and captain cold beat his ass at times?

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by leonidas
wow, cc -- you're working overtime lately! go hulk!!

ps-i'd love to jump in, but i HATE flash threads!! all this infinity punch crap and dragging to the ends of time . . . and frabkly, i don't know enough about flash to be able to attempt to debunk all this crap.

i do have one question though -- if flash has all these abilities, how does captain boomerang and captain cold beat his ass at times?

Hah! You hate Flash threads? I think they should be banned. Either he's too fast to be fought, or he's God.

That's just PIS. Flash doesn't often grace villains with the honor of being defeated by him, so he avoids using his true God-like potential in every fight.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Hah! You hate Flash threads? I think they should be banned. Either he's too fast to be fought, or he's God.

That's just PIS. Flash doesn't often grace villains with the honor of being defeated by him, so he avoids using his true God-like potential in every fight. Or they just try and make the stories interesting.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Or they just try and make the stories interesting. Yeah. That too.

I just want to look up the issues that Flash has done all this crazy stuff in. Just to validate them. He's not consistantly portrayed as being so powerful.

Dizzle
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Yeah. That too.

I just want to look up the issues that Flash has done all this crazy stuff in. Just to validate them. He's not consistantly portrayed as being so powerful.

His high end feats are pretty insane though... And he does have several. The "IMP" against the White Martian was one, the best was probably outracing Death (Black Flash) to the end of time, sporadic time travel by surpassing light speed. (though Barry could control his time travel...)

Applying physics to the Flash (or any super hero, really) is pretty terrible. Becuase anyone hitting at super speed should have effects more akin to a fist sized bullet than an actual punch. Comics should be REALLY REALLY bloody from the Flash. Fist's size/bullet size=/=fist speed/bullet speed... So it should really have piercing properties, as opposed to crushing ones. And if Flash ever started poking people... Seriously, he could get a metal cap for his finger and be the living machine gun.

Metalmanx
Lord.

Flash wins. Everytime. Anytime, anywhere.

Flash 10/10.

superman302
Originally posted by scotsmn
Either way, I can't see Flash being able to hurt Hulk and I can't see Hulk catching Flash. Looks like a tie.

or the flash could just phase threw the hulk at superspeed and cause all the hulks organs and tissue to just explode.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by superman302
or the flash could just phase threw the hulk at superspeed and cause all the hulks organs and tissue to just explode.

Why would he be able to do that? He's never done it before. confused

That's like saying Hulk could start flying, or using superspeed. He's never done either before.

sam_drugbringer
He does it all the time.

Hulk still wins though. An ungodly healing factor and restince to injury will have him win in the end.

superman302
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Why would he be able to do that? He's never done it before. confused

That's like saying Hulk could start flying, or using superspeed. He's never done either before.


Powers and abilities
All incarnations of the Flash can run and move their limbs at superhuman speeds, and possess superhuman reflexes. All possess an aura that prevents air friction from affecting their bodies and clothes while moving.

Barry Allen possessed several other abilities that Jay Garrick and Wally West have not always been able to duplicate. He could vibrate his molecules through solid matter, could run on thick snow clouds and could travel through time and to other dimensions with the help of a "cosmic treadmill". Most unusual was Allen's complete control of his molecules, allowing him to vibrate through solid matter and, on one occasion when transformed into a mirror, "melt" himself and reform as a human to defeat the Mirror Master.

Wally West has been shown to have a connection to the Speed Force, an extradimensional energy source, which provides his powers and gives him several other abilities. While all speedsters are powered by the force, West mainlines the power from the force itself and cannot be cut off from the source, unlike the others. Wally is believed to be the fastest of all known Flashes, and has on several occasions sped faster than light and entered and exited the speed force by his own volition. He can create his costume out of pure speed energy, and can either impart his high velocities to other people and objects already in motion or steal the velocity they possess. Jay Garrick also possesses this ability to some degree; he stole speed from Black Adam in order to defeat Johnny Sorrow, and he has threatened to steal Bart's speed on at least one occasion when he was misbehaving. ]]] has recently shown this to be a controlled ability as he can pass through objects without any ensuing explosion. Although not nearly as precise as Allen when he used his cosmic treadmill, West has shown to be able to traverse time and dimensions with his own powers, much like Allen

superman302
Originally posted by sam_drugbringer
He does it all the time.

Hulk still wins though. An ungodly healing factor and restince to injury will have him win in the end.

i doubt that if his brain were to explode then how would he heal up from that???

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by superman302
i doubt that if his brain were to explode then how would he heal up from that???

Same way he did last time it exploded.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by superman302
Powers and abilities
All incarnations of the Flash can run and move their limbs at superhuman speeds, and possess superhuman reflexes. All possess an aura that prevents air friction from affecting their bodies and clothes while moving.

Barry Allen possessed several other abilities that Jay Garrick and Wally West have not always been able to duplicate. He could vibrate his molecules through solid matter, could run on thick snow clouds and could travel through time and to other dimensions with the help of a "cosmic treadmill". Most unusual was Allen's complete control of his molecules, allowing him to vibrate through solid matter and, on one occasion when transformed into a mirror, "melt" himself and reform as a human to defeat the Mirror Master.

Wally West has been shown to have a connection to the Speed Force, an extradimensional energy source, which provides his powers and gives him several other abilities. While all speedsters are powered by the force, West mainlines the power from the force itself and cannot be cut off from the source, unlike the others. Wally is believed to be the fastest of all known Flashes, and has on several occasions sped faster than light and entered and exited the speed force by his own volition. He can create his costume out of pure speed energy, and can either impart his high velocities to other people and objects already in motion or steal the velocity they possess. Jay Garrick also possesses this ability to some degree; he stole speed from Black Adam in order to defeat Johnny Sorrow, and he has threatened to steal Bart's speed on at least one occasion when he was misbehaving. ]]] has recently shown this to be a controlled ability as he can pass through objects without any ensuing explosion. Although not nearly as precise as Allen when he used his cosmic treadmill, West has shown to be able to traverse time and dimensions with his own powers, much like Allen

Where does it say he vibrates through people?

Has he ever vibrated through a villian to defeat them? Has he ever vibrated through anyone?

(I already know the answer to both of these questions.)

superman302
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Same way he did last time it exploded.

Hulk would be able to heal from it everything would explose he would even have a head left, i mean if flash reall wanted to he kill hulk off and hulk would even have time to realize what had happened

superman302
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Where does it say he vibrates through people?

Has he ever vibrated through a villian to defeat them? Has he ever vibrated through anyone?

(I already know the answer to both of these questions.)

Flash hasnt considering he doesnt kill people considering the fact hes a hero, but reverse flash has so there if no reason that Flash couldnt considering their powers operate the same way.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by superman302
Hulk would be able to heal from it everything would explose he would even have a head left, i mean if flash reall wanted to he kill hulk off and hulk would even have time to realize what had happened

Hulk was blasted into a cloud of atoms once. He was reduced to a skeleton by Thanos.

He healed from both. Ridiculous, right?

Hulk probably wouldn't notice anything Flash was doing. Now that may not necessarily be good for Flash either.

laughing

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by superman302
Flash hasnt considering he doesnt kill people considering the fact hes a hero, but reverse flash has so there if no reason that Flash couldnt considering their powers operate the same way.

Yes, he's a hero. And he's never vibrated through anyone to make them explode. There's no proof that he can do it, or that he ever will.

superman302
and yet when maestro broke his neck it took forever and a day for him to heal back up............... Flash is going to win this cause hulk doesnt have a chance at hitting someone who can just keep phasing threw them at light speed and eventually after a while he will be reduced to nothing more then a puddle of flesh and bone.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by superman302
and yet when maestro broke his neck it took forever and a day for him to heal back up............... Flash is going to win this cause hulk doesnt have a chance at hitting someone who can just keep phasing threw them at light speed and eventually after a while he will be reduced to nothing more then a puddle of flesh and bone. That was Professor Hulk, and he heals a lot slower than other incarnations. He's weaker, and less durable too.

No, Hulk doesn't have a chance of hitting him. That doesn't automatically mean that Flash wins.

Flash has never phased through anyone and made them explode. It's not fair to say that he would do it in this fight.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That was Professor Hulk, and he heals a lot slower than other incarnations. He's weaker, and less durable too.

No, Hulk doesn't have a chance of hitting him. That doesn't automatically mean that Flash wins.

Flash has never phased through anyone and made them explode. It's not fair to say that he would do it in this fight. Needless to say, worst case scenario for Flash is to stalemate, because Hulk has no way to defeat this dynamic of a character. Flash on the other hand, could put Hulk down and hold him there by taking his energy away, until he reverts... or drag him through time.. or hit him with thousands of infinite mass punches since he'd be a standing target to Flash anyways... or any number of things.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
Needless to say, worst case scenario for Flash is to stalemate, because Hulk has no way to defeat this dynamic of a character. Flash on the other hand, could put Hulk down and hold him there by taking his energy away, until he reverts... or drag him through time.. or hit him with thousands of infinite mass punches since he'd be a standing target to Flash anyways... or any number of things.

I agree completely with the first part of your post.

The second part is a litttle... well... 'ify'

Anyway, did you come up wiht any more issues that Flash used the IMP in. Can you come up with an issue of him freezing someone with his "speed steal?"

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I agree completely with the first part of your post.

The second part is a litttle... well... 'ify'

Anyway, did you come up wiht any more issues that Flash used the IMP in. Can you come up with an issue of him freezing someone with his "speed steal?" The IMP punch he uses consistantly throughout his series and even in the JLA. in fact, in the series where he LEARNS the speedforce, he defeats the enemy with an IMP punch. But no Flash doesn't call out his moves like "GO INFINITE MASS PUNCH!!!!!!!".. so it'd be unlikely to give you a specific issue you're looking for.. but if you want to SEE him do it... pick up a Flash trade.

And the steal speed...Truth or Dare part 1, when he was fighting alongside Wonderwoman, and Cheeta got her superspeed powers, she tried to attack Flash, and when she touched him, he took her speed.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
The IMP punch he uses consistantly throughout his series and even in the JLA. in fact, in the series where he LEARNS the speedforce, he defeats the enemy with an IMP punch. But no Flash doesn't call out his moves like "GO INFINITE MASS PUNCH!!!!!!!".. so it'd be unlikely to give you a specific issue you're looking for.. but if you want to SEE him do it... pick up a Flash trade.

And the steal speed...Truth or Dare part 1, when he was fighting alongside Wonderwoman, and Cheeta got her superspeed powers, she tried to attack Flash, and when she touched him, he took her speed.
I know they don't call it the infinite mass punch. I just want to know if you can recall any other issues that he used it in. I'm not doubting the fact that he can use it. I just want to get a better understanding of it.

I read JLA and Flash. I was wondering if you could direct me towards any particular issues that he uses the punch in. Can you?

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I know they don't call it the infinite mass punch. I just want to know if you can recall any other issues that he used it in. I'm not doubting the fact that he can use it. I just want to get a better understanding of it.

I read JLA and Flash. I was wondering if you could direct me towards any particular issues that he uses the punch in. Can you?
In the Return of Superman series against Mongul, when he returned with his speedforce powers. I thought I said that already.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
In the Return of Superman series against Mongul, when he returned with his speedforce powers. I thought I said that already.

I don't mean to be a pest, but do you have an issue #?

Juntai
In that comic of Diana and Flash against Cheeta and Zoom in Truth or Dare, Zoom punches Wonderwoman across the planet , and she said it hurt worse than any time Superman has hit her. Then he hit her clear to Paradise island. He had her defeated then, broken and bleeding on the ground, layed out then started going running around and killing Amazons.. and she eventually got back up and roped him.

One would be left to assume these are also IMP punches, or a near equivelent.. since Zoom's powers aren't quite the same.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I don't mean to be a pest, but do you have an issue #? Not offhand.. I'm not a Flash reader, I just know what I do read. Mongul had stomped Flash for nearly an entire comic, then Flash superhealed, leaped up, and Imp punched him for a KO. I could find out though, one of my best friends is the human comic shop.. that's where I get a lot of my reading material, though I currently have 20+ subscriptions he has far more, and digs much farther into comic history than I do.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
Not offhand.. I'm not a Flash reader, I just know what I do read. Mongul had stomped Flash for nearly an entire comic, then Flash superhealed, leaped up, and Imp punched him for a KO. I could find out though, one of my best friends is the human comic shop.. that's where I get a lot of my reading material, though I currently have 20+ subscriptions he has far more, and digs much farther into comic history than I do.

That's ok. I'll try finding out for myself. Thanks for the info.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That's ok. I'll try finding out for myself. Thanks for the info. But I did point an issue including Zoom doing a similar manuver to put down Wonder Woman, and Flash doing the steal speed in the same comic. Truth or Dare part one.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Juntai
But I did point an issue including Zoom doing a similar manuver to put down Wonder Woman, and Flash doing the steal speed in the same comic. Truth or Dare part one.

Thanks again. I'll look it up.

Juntai
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Thanks again. I'll look it up.
This comic is also previewed in the "Prelude to Countdown to the infinite Crisis" paperpack.

jrodslam
Flash.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by jrodslam
Flash.
is God.

blackwarrior
Flash is without doubt one of the most poorly created comic characters.
The writers/artists that created him just never thought very much
about the contradictory nature of his so-called powers.
Things like "stopping time". Time is just a conceptual construct used to
sequentially order events in relation to a constant(base) like the Earth
revolving on its axis(another conceptual construct) and orbiting the Sun.
There isn't an independent thing that exists called Time. All energy &
energy forms are in various states of motion - some of which are
processes like growing from baby to child to an adult, to aging & dying.
So there is no way that some jumped up human in red tights can either
stop time or drag someone to the end of time, as has been suggested
on this thread.

Furthermore may I point out that sunlight travels at the speed of light
and it strikes us and many other energy forms every day without
knocking us out with its "infinite mass". The only ill effects I have every
had was a little sunburn from prolonged exposure.

For an energy form to acclerate to the speed of light it has to expend
energy in vast quantities. Which means that it has to have a means of
storing that energy within its being. The Flash must have quite some
diet and and be quite some size. Yet strangely this is not so for when
he is not the Flash he is just a 'normal' man.

The Flash is supposed to be "human" in that he is not invunerable or
even that durable. Yet any energy form that accelerated to the speed of
light would simple undergo a radical transformation and not be able
to maintain the integrity of its form. It would become light energy which
as we known strikes us normal mortals without killing or knocking us
out. The infinite mass punch is pure bullshit. If a being existed that
was capable of achieving light speed or faster and reforming itself on a
physical energy level it simply could not be human.

Have you ever been on a fast train and looked out of the window at the
countryside as it 'flashes' past. The closer it is to the train the less
distinct the images. So unless Flash is a super-duper godlike being as
he approached something it would just be a indistinct blur. The processes
of the subconscious mind that take the electrical impulses (from the
nervous system) and convert them into our visual perception of the
world do not work that fast. As for the ludicrous suggestion that the
Flash could dodge/avoid the sound waves from the Hulk's sonic clap.
Sonic waves are intangible so Flash wouldn't even be able to see them
if he were standing still.

I could go on and elaborate on other myths about the uber Flash but
I am sure you get the drift. If Flash was travelling at the speed of light
then he would be an intangible energy incapable of even seeing the Hulk
let alone hitting him. He could not strike the Hulk whilst existing at that
energy level. If he was moving at cruise speed of a few hundred miles
an hour and struck the Hulk he would kill himself as he is not invunerable
or even that durable and the Hulk is.

On this basis Hulk wins and easily.

The only speedster that may give the Hulk a 'fair' fight is Jesse Quick
as she has flight, super strength and a degree of durability which is
an energy form's structural integrity - ("invunerability" of a sort)
Come to think of it I reckon that the greater popularity of marvel
characters over DC ones is down to the credibility factor. DC are just
too super powered for their own good - their powers are not thought
about by their creators and the result is silly characters like Flash.

Just because we are born into a world of monumental stupidity its no
excuse to meekly accept it as is.

long pig
Originally posted by blackwarrior
Flash is without doubt one of the most poorly created comic characters.
The writers/artists that created him just never thought very much
about the contradictory nature of his so-called powers.
Things like "stopping time". Time is just a conceptual construct used to
sequentially order events in relation to a constant(base) like the Earth
revolving on its axis(another conceptual construct) and orbiting the Sun.
There isn't an independent thing that exists called Time. All energy &
energy forms are in various states of motion - some of which are
processes like growing from baby to child to an adult, to aging & dying.
So there is no way that some jumped up human in red tights can either
stop time or drag someone to the end of time, as has been suggested
on this thread.

Furthermore may I point out that sunlight travels at the speed of light
and it strikes us and many other energy forms every day without
knocking us out with its "infinite mass". The only ill effects I have every
had was a little sunburn from prolonged exposure.

For an energy form to acclerate to the speed of light it has to expend
energy in vast quantities. Which means that it has to have a means of
storing that energy within its being. The Flash must have quite some
diet and and be quite some size. Yet strangely this is not so for when
he is not the Flash he is just a 'normal' man.

The Flash is supposed to be "human" in that he is not invunerable or
even that durable. Yet any energy form that accelerated to the speed of
light would simple undergo a radical transformation and not be able
to maintain the integrity of its form. It would become light energy which
as we known strikes us normal mortals without killing or knocking us
out. The infinite mass punch is pure bullshit. If a being existed that
was capable of achieving light speed or faster and reforming itself on a
physical energy level it simply could not be human.

Have you ever been on a fast train and looked out of the window at the
countryside as it 'flashes' past. The closer it is to the train the less
distinct the images. So unless Flash is a super-duper godlike being as
he approached something it would just be a indistinct blur. The processes
of the subconscious mind that take the electrical impulses (from the
nervous system) and convert them into our visual perception of the
world do not work that fast. As for the ludicrous suggestion that the
Flash could dodge/avoid the sound waves from the Hulk's sonic clap.
Sonic waves are intangible so Flash wouldn't even be able to see them
if he were standing still.

I could go on and elaborate on other myths about the uber Flash but
I am sure you get the drift. If Flash was travelling at the speed of light
then he would be an intangible energy incapable of even seeing the Hulk
let alone hitting him. He could not strike the Hulk whilst existing at that
energy level. If he was moving at cruise speed of a few hundred miles
an hour and struck the Hulk he would kill himself as he is not invunerable
or even that durable and the Hulk is.

On this basis Hulk wins and easily.

The only speedster that may give the Hulk a 'fair' fight is Jesse Quick
as she has flight, super strength and a degree of durability which is
an energy form's structural integrity - ("invunerability" of a sort)
Come to think of it I reckon that the greater popularity of marvel
characters over DC ones is down to the credibility factor. DC are just
too super powered for their own good - their powers are not thought
about by their creators and the result is silly characters like Flash.

Just because we are born into a world of monumental stupidity its no
excuse to meekly accept it as is.
Everything you've said is explained away by the Speed Force.

Sorry. sad

sam_drugbringer
Originally posted by long pig
Everything you've said is explained away by the Speed Force.

Sorry. sad

That's the entire point roll eyes (sarcastic)

long pig
Was it?

Then he's an idiot, or you're an idiot. It's pretty obvious the speedforce was set in place to explain away the B.S.

Superherovandal
Duh! The whole SF is one big plot device that is used for speedsters in DCU. Its a way to do things that don't seem possible. Like Power Cosmic and magic (which is the BIGGEST Plot device ever used in super hero comics.)

leonheartmm
but speed force is poorly explained and doesnt seem to have the IT factor to it to make it sound like logical fact, it normally sounds like bullshit. how can flash run without fealin anythin on his body. where does he get the energy from, if speed force is all that then he shoudnt have the need to breathe or eat. how does it explain VIBRATING through molecules, no matter how fast your molecules are moving, as long as ur physical ur molecules will never just vibrate through matter. how exactly does flash NOT gain mass when he accelerates to lightspeed or beyond, and if that is infact the case where the HELL do his infinite mass punches come from. another thing, if they really were INFINITE mass munches theyd have more mass than the universe could hold, also even forgettin than when they connected theyd produce so much energy, that the entire universe if not many universes would be completely annihlated and an almost infinite number of universe with different laws of physics formed. and anyway, even if HE is protected form the affeects of superspeedin beyond lightspeed, the air molecules around him, the ground he puches back on or anythin that touches him would infact also produce an infinite amount of energy and hence the previously mentioned conclusion. also seeing that his power isnt REALLY connected with kinetic energy at all but SPEED, how is it that he can just suck kinetic energy out of other things. anyway, at the speed his living cells LIVE, wally would probably be a very VERY old man by now, but the speed force doesnt really give an explanation for him not bein affected in his age. conclusion, comic book writers DONT pay nearly as much insane attention to physics as fanboys do when tryin to prove PHYSICALLY what their character SHOULD be capable of, while the artists dont really show that kind of power level anywhere in the comic itself, its not really MEANT to be that way.

scotsmn
Originally posted by blackwarrior
Flash is without doubt one of the most poorly created comic characters.
The writers/artists that created him just never thought very much
about the contradictory nature of his so-called powers.
Things like "stopping time". Time is just a conceptual construct used to
sequentially order events in relation to a constant(base) like the Earth
revolving on its axis(another conceptual construct) and orbiting the Sun.
There isn't an independent thing that exists called Time. All energy &
energy forms are in various states of motion - some of which are
processes like growing from baby to child to an adult, to aging & dying.
So there is no way that some jumped up human in red tights can either
stop time or drag someone to the end of time, as has been suggested
on this thread.

Furthermore may I point out that sunlight travels at the speed of light
and it strikes us and many other energy forms every day without
knocking us out with its "infinite mass". The only ill effects I have every
had was a little sunburn from prolonged exposure.

For an energy form to acclerate to the speed of light it has to expend
energy in vast quantities. Which means that it has to have a means of
storing that energy within its being. The Flash must have quite some
diet and and be quite some size. Yet strangely this is not so for when
he is not the Flash he is just a 'normal' man.

The Flash is supposed to be "human" in that he is not invunerable or
even that durable. Yet any energy form that accelerated to the speed of
light would simple undergo a radical transformation and not be able
to maintain the integrity of its form. It would become light energy which
as we known strikes us normal mortals without killing or knocking us
out. The infinite mass punch is pure bullshit. If a being existed that
was capable of achieving light speed or faster and reforming itself on a
physical energy level it simply could not be human.

Have you ever been on a fast train and looked out of the window at the
countryside as it 'flashes' past. The closer it is to the train the less
distinct the images. So unless Flash is a super-duper godlike being as
he approached something it would just be a indistinct blur. The processes
of the subconscious mind that take the electrical impulses (from the
nervous system) and convert them into our visual perception of the
world do not work that fast. As for the ludicrous suggestion that the
Flash could dodge/avoid the sound waves from the Hulk's sonic clap.
Sonic waves are intangible so Flash wouldn't even be able to see them
if he were standing still.

I could go on and elaborate on other myths about the uber Flash but
I am sure you get the drift. If Flash was travelling at the speed of light
then he would be an intangible energy incapable of even seeing the Hulk
let alone hitting him. He could not strike the Hulk whilst existing at that
energy level. If he was moving at cruise speed of a few hundred miles
an hour and struck the Hulk he would kill himself as he is not invunerable
or even that durable and the Hulk is.

On this basis Hulk wins and easily.

The only speedster that may give the Hulk a 'fair' fight is Jesse Quick
as she has flight, super strength and a degree of durability which is
an energy form's structural integrity - ("invunerability" of a sort)
Come to think of it I reckon that the greater popularity of marvel
characters over DC ones is down to the credibility factor. DC are just
too super powered for their own good - their powers are not thought
about by their creators and the result is silly characters like Flash.

Just because we are born into a world of monumental stupidity its no
excuse to meekly accept it as is.

That was so beautiful I damn near messed myself. That's what I think of Flash and many DC characters as well. It seems like a little boy made up their powers... and kept adding powers whenever he thought of a weakness.

If Hulk and Flash fought, it would be in a universe other than DC's. Speedforce universe/force/power/dimension doesn't exist there, sorry.

Hulk for t3h win!!1!1!!

Draco69
Neither does the Power Cosmic. Or the OdinForce. Or the Uni-Mind. Or a mutant gene that gives certain people powers. Or the Phoenix Force.

The arguement was nothing but a rant that is contridicted by every other damn superhero...

scotsmn
Originally posted by Draco69
Neither does the Power Cosmic. Or the OdinForce. Or the Uni-Mind. Or a mutant gene that gives certain people powers. Or the Phoenix Force.

The arguement was nothing but a rant that is contridicted by every other damn superhero...

Not the same! From what I hear, speedforce is like an extra dimension or universe that may as well have been tailored just for Flash. Gimme a break.

He has too many retarded powers that don't make sense. He can "v..i..b..r..a..t..e" through solid objects and hurt them, yet he is not hurt. What a bunch of bologna!

He's a freakin' human.. not some cosmic power like living tribunal. He's not a god either.

NoFate007
Comics don't make sense half the time anyway, so I'd give this to Flash.

scotsmn
You know what doesn't make sense? Hulk destroying the planet AND Flash with a drop kick and then turning into an acorn and floating through space.

blackwarrior
The speedforce is just another load of goddamn baloney. It would have
been smarter if the writers/artists just said Flash's powers were magic.
The Speedforce is an aura (energy field) that protects Flash from physical harm etc. Even if we accepted this at face value it still does not
explain how he is able to process and formulate his visual perceptions -
since this takes place in the brain by way of electrical impulses that do
not travel at the speed of light or even close to it.

Of course all comic characters have fantastic imaginary powers and
abilities. The difference is some are more credible than others as we
are able at least to understand the basis for their said powers. i.e.
We can relate to them as science fiction. Others have powers that are
so poorly explained that its near impossible to relate to them. They are
the concoctions of ill conceived poor imaginations and ought to be
reworked.

JediMasterLuke5
Speed Blitz with Flash, is this a joke? Whats flash going to do to him? Rub his belly? That will be just as effective as hitting him. Hulk jumps up in the air lands on the ground creating a big shock wave knocking flash in half then the Hulk eats him.

scotsmn
Hulk taps into the "Strengthforce" and becomes pure strength. He can do everything as strengthforce, even muscle into time and make it rewind or skip forward. rolling on floor laughing

Vegetto
Originally posted by scotsmn
Hulk taps into the "Strengthforce" and becomes pure strength. He can do everything as strengthforce, even muscle into time and make it rewind or skip forward. rolling on floor laughing


LMFAO

sam_drugbringer
Flash wins. He's Flash. Get over it.

Vegetto
Hulk can't do anything that I can think of to connect with Flash. Someone mentioned he could stomp the floor to knock Flash down or whatever, but since Flash reacts and moves so fast that wouldn't be a factor. I know if I'm running and I see the ground is uneven (stepping off a curb or something like that) I just step down into the lower part or up onto the higher part. I don't see why he couldn't just run up it like we would run up/down a staircase.

I don't know how tough Hulk's eyes are, but If I were Flash I would use something and jab him in the eyes at superspeed and then throw salt in there or something. Or mabye grab a carpet from somewhere and rug burn the hell outta him then throw a few bottles of alcohol on him... something to piss him off. I'm moving faster than he can see me, and even if he could then how would he catch me?

scotsmn
Originally posted by Vegetto
Hulk can't do anything that I can think of to connect with Flash. Someone mentioned he could stomp the floor to knock Flash down or whatever, but since Flash reacts and moves so fast that wouldn't be a factor. I know if I'm running and I see the ground is uneven (stepping off a curb or something like that) I just step down into the lower part or up onto the higher part. I don't see why he couldn't just run up it like we would run up/down a staircase.

I don't know how tough Hulk's eyes are, but If I were Flash I would use something and jab him in the eyes at superspeed and then throw salt in there or something. Or mabye grab a carpet from somewhere and rug burn the hell outta him then throw a few bottles of alcohol on him... something to piss him off. I'm moving faster than he can see me, and even if he could then how would he catch me?

He could call the police

dvampire
Flash wins.

The Flash Vs. Mongul (Speed Vs. Strength).

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1a2lq.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1b1vd.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1c3ch.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1d1tq.jpg

http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1e5qm.jpg

http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1f9ke.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1g3rz.jpg

http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1h5ly.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1i0kb.jpg

http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1j2xc.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1k3px.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1l6ry.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1m8tp.jpg

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1n2rc.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1o1em.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1p4ts.jpg

jrodslam
Originally posted by dvampire
Flash wins.

The Flash Vs. Mongul (Speed Vs. Strength).

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1a2lq.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1b1vd.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1c3ch.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1d1tq.jpg

http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1e5qm.jpg

http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1f9ke.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1g3rz.jpg

http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1h5ly.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1i0kb.jpg

http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1j2xc.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1k3px.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1l6ry.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1m8tp.jpg

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1n2rc.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1o1em.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1p4ts.jpg

WOW. Sweet scans.

dvampire
Originally posted by jrodslam
WOW. Sweet scans.

Thanks! big grin

scotsmn
Originally posted by dvampire
Flash wins.

The Flash Vs. Mongul (Speed Vs. Strength).

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1a2lq.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1b1vd.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1c3ch.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1d1tq.jpg

http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1e5qm.jpg

http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1f9ke.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1g3rz.jpg

http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1h5ly.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1i0kb.jpg

http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1j2xc.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1k3px.jpg

http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1l6ry.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1m8tp.jpg

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1n2rc.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1o1em.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsmongul1p4ts.jpg

Until now, I suspected Flash comics were boring... but now I have seen proof! Flash, the most boring comic evAr!!!

And yeah that was speedforce vs. strength. But it wasn't speedforce vs. strengthforce! When you tap into the strengthforce it rips holes in all other forces!

dvampire
Originally posted by scotsmn
Until now, I suspected Flash comics were boring... but now I have seen proof! Flash, the most boring comic evAr!!!

And yeah that was speedforce vs. strength. But it wasn't speedforce vs. strengthforce! When you tap into the strengthforce it rips holes in all other forces!

The heck are you talking about? confused

scotsmn
Originally posted by dvampire
The heck are you talking about? confused cool

tiakocom
gotta love DC comics almost 98% of their hero are overpowered as hell from mere human to inhuman characters. dont see the point in doin a versus fight with DC comics I mean whats the point...since they always win.

blackwarrior
The images posted by "dvampire" bear out what I have said about Flash.
Hell he falls a substantial way into a hole in the Earth and lands on
a space-ship. The Aura(speedforce) is not shown as braking his fall
in anyway and as he is not very durable, this should have killed him.
Then as per the attached image he actually gets tagged by Mongul
and there is some lame bs about the (magically explain away all the
glaring inconsistencies) "speedforce" having "revved" his reflexes.
Then just to make matters worse Flash thinks "its gonna take some
time before my brain stops pinballing around in my skull". The fact is
if his brain shifted around as he described he would have probably died
or at least been unconscious. If Mongul can hit him, then so can Hulk,
who has in his past struck other speedsters. One punch from Hulk and
at the very least Flash's brain would be liquidised.

Plus if Hulk used a sonic clap Flash would simply run straight into the oncoming sonic waves since he cannot see them as they are
intangible/invisible) and by the time his brain had processed the info
that this was occuring he would be dead.

See the human brain works with electrical impulses - or nerve impulses
if you prefer. This means that even if we accept all the other bs related
to the Flash he is still subject to this limitation. Now if the writers were
smart they would have made Flash a mutant with a meta-human greatly
enhanced physiology that enabled him to process and respond to
incoming data virtually instantly.

This speed versus strength debate has been raging in comicbooks for
quite some time. The main problem is that there is very little creative
or original thought about either factor. With incredible speed you need
to have a supply of incredible energy or at least a means of tapping
into the limitless energy of the quantum void and converting this into
functioning energy for practical use. Incredible speed also necessitates
a change in the nature of an energy form's being. If this does not occur
then the structural integrity of the form dis-intergrates and it is
destroyed. (death) There is a direct relationship between speed of
movement and the structural interity of an energy form. If an energy
form has a weak structure and it strikes another form with incredible
speed then it will be damaged or destroyed from the impact.

With Strength you have got to start by clarifying what it means. It is
usually associated with the ability to lift incredible weight. This means
that the energy form has to have a durable structural integrity otherwise
it would not be able to perform the said feat. The amount of energy
needed to perform feats of great strength increases as the weight does.
Incredible strength does not necessarily mean having incredible striking
power.

Striking power is a combination of speed and mass-energy. Where
mass-energy is the energy form including the structural integrity of the
being in question. To destroy say a mountain with a punch you would
need to have a high degree of structural intergity (durability) as well as
incredible speed of movement. Striking force = speed x mass-energy.

Now if you've read this far you may have been wondering where this
was going. Well as the Hulk has been shown to have incredible
striking power therefore he must also have incredible speed. He is also
incredible durable in that he has the structural intregrity to bear the impact of the strike. If Flash is to be able to perform the feats shown
then he must be a mutant with (1) a significant structural integrity - a
high degree of durability and (2) the abilty to transmute the nature of
his being from physical-energy to subtle/intangible-energy.

As things stand at the moment Hulk posses more credibility as a
character as he has strength, durability, speed and his powers have a well thought out basis. Flash on the otherhand just has speed and a load
of inconsistent poorly imagined powers.

sam_drugbringer
We are not compareing to find out who's power is more reliable and/or well writen. We are compareing their realtive power. You seem to keep wanting to take this to an artisitc level. It's not. Flash's powers, no matter how inconsestent, are stronger. He wins.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by blackwarrior
The images posted by "dvampire" bear out what I have said about Flash.
Hell he falls a substantial way into a hole in the Earth and lands on
a space-ship. The Aura(speedforce) is not shown as braking his fall
in anyway and as he is not very durable, this should have killed him.
Then as per the attached image he actually gets tagged by Mongul
and there is some lame bs about the (magically explain away all the
glaring inconsistencies) "speedforce" having "revved" his reflexes.
Then just to make matters worse Flash thinks "its gonna take some
time before my brain stops pinballing around in my skull". The fact is
if his brain shifted around as he described he would have probably died
or at least been unconscious. If Mongul can hit him, then so can Hulk,
who has in his past struck other speedsters. One punch from Hulk and
at the very least Flash's brain would be liquidised.

Plus if Hulk used a sonic clap Flash would simply run straight into the oncoming sonic waves since he cannot see them as they are
intangible/invisible) and by the time his brain had processed the info
that this was occuring he would be dead.

See the human brain works with electrical impulses - or nerve impulses
if you prefer. This means that even if we accept all the other bs related
to the Flash he is still subject to this limitation. Now if the writers were
smart they would have made Flash a mutant with a meta-human greatly
enhanced physiology that enabled him to process and respond to
incoming data virtually instantly.

That's just it though. Flash does indeed respond to incoming data virtually instantly. He's not just foot-speed fast. Everything about him, his entire phisiology works at extreme speeds. How the hell do you think he dodges and weaves throughout the city going at insane speeds? He sees everything in his own time, the way that we see something when we're running. He may be going light-speed, yes, but it still would appear the same to him. He not only runs at lightspeeds, but he reacts at lightspeeds as well.

You have to understand this to go any further.

leonheartmm
but thatd be borin like hell, if he percieved everythin at lightspeed than he would actually PERCIEVE the distance he runs in real time, eg if he ran around the earth in less than a second in HIS mind hed have been actually running for YEARS!

Metalmanx
Originally posted by leonheartmm
but thatd be borin like hell, if he percieved everythin at lightspeed than he would actually PERCIEVE the distance he runs in real time, eg if he ran around the earth in less than a second in HIS mind hed have been actually running for YEARS!

I get what you're saying. And maybe I wrote that incorrectly.

What i mean to say is, that things still go by as fast as they do. WHen he runs around the world in one second, it still takes one second, clearly. And that's what it seems like to him as well. It's just that one second feels longer to him than it does others. But somehow his eyesight and mind work at lightspeeds, allowing him to perceive any obstacles in his way and give him ample time (picoseconds) to change course and avoid hitting it.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I get what you're saying. And maybe I wrote that incorrectly.

What i mean to say is, that things still go by as fast as they do. WHen he runs around the world in one second, it still takes one second, clearly. And that's what it seems like to him as well. It's just that one second feels longer to him than it does others. But somehow his eyesight and mind work at lightspeeds, allowing him to perceive any obstacles in his way and give him ample time (picoseconds) to change course and avoid hitting it.

no no i GET what ur saying, but if thas true then what im sayin is also true, time to a human is only brain perception dependin on reaction n calculation and thought speed, housefly's percieve thigns as if they were in extreme slow motion and if YOU were a housefly knowin what time was for a human mind, a single second would probably last for more than half a minute. and if flashe's mind does indeed work on that level then he MUST also percieve himself to be in normal time. and if he has tp run 50 miles to get to a place even if he doesn it in a microsecond or sumthin hed still THINK he really had run a marathon and actually run the entire distance in like more than half a day. im just wonderin how that doesnt drive him insane. or maybe its just sumthin writers avoid.

blackwarrior
Ah. The old different perception of time arguement - naturally without
any accompanying explanation as to how or why. All of a sudden Flash
has a mutant type physiology that allows him to perceive things as if
in slow motion. Then no doubt at other times his perception of time
is well normal. Is this a part of his bio? Sounds like another load of
complex bs. Especially as time is merely a conceptual construct whose
usage has lead some to believe that it has some independent existence.

As for the one poster saying that those are Flash powers regardless of inconsistencies, impracticalities & downright stupidity - well I for one
thought that the purpose of this board was to examine & discuss not just
to regurgitate the same old shite(irish for shit). Try stretching your
imagination you may learn something new.

So lets just cut to the chase. Mongul managed to punch Flash if he can
then so can Hulk. Difference is Flash won't be thinking about his
brain pinball-ing around in his skull cause he'll be D.E.A.D. THE END

Vegetto
Originally posted by leonheartmm
but thatd be borin like hell, if he percieved everythin at lightspeed than he would actually PERCIEVE the distance he runs in real time, eg if he ran around the earth in less than a second in HIS mind hed have been actually running for YEARS!


I've always wondered about that myself...

In the old thread someone posted about him not actually using his fist when he does the I.M.P., but http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2148022rg.jpg shows him saying he uses his fist. If thats the case then his arm would be beyond shattered if he punches anything going at the speeds he would need to attain for the hit.

Juntai
Originally posted by blackwarrior
Ah. The old different perception of time arguement - naturally without
any accompanying explanation as to how or why. All of a sudden Flash
has a mutant type physiology that allows him to perceive things as if
in slow motion. Then no doubt at other times his perception of time
is well normal. Is this a part of his bio? Sounds like another load of
complex bs. Especially as time is merely a conceptual construct whose
usage has lead some to believe that it has some independent existence.

As for the one poster saying that those are Flash powers regardless of inconsistencies, impracticalities & downright stupidity - well I for one
thought that the purpose of this board was to examine & discuss not just
to regurgitate the same old shite(irish for shit). Try stretching your
imagination you may learn something new.

So lets just cut to the chase. Mongul managed to punch Flash if he can
then so can Hulk. Difference is Flash won't be thinking about his
brain pinball-ing around in his skull cause he'll be D.E.A.D. THE END By this logic, Batman can kick the air of Hulk and ko him, and since it happened, it makes sense. He can also kick Captain Marvel into Billy Batson.. knocking the magic right out of him.

Just because it happens in the comic, doesn't mean it's logical.
Flash's reaction are superspeed, and hulk would never be able to hit him, when you consider his powers.

Juntai
Originally posted by Vegetto
I've always wondered about that myself...

In the old thread someone posted about him not actually using his fist when he does the I.M.P., but http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2148022rg.jpg shows him saying he uses his fist. If thats the case then his arm would be beyond shattered if he punches anything going at the speeds he would need to attain for the hit. but when he hit Zum with the IMP punch that he described word for word, he hit with energy of the speed force before it faded from his form as he exited the SF, not his hand.

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