Classic Juggernaut vs Savage Hulk and Thor

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golem370
Who wins this fight

GODSCRIBE
Savage Hulk and Thor definately take this.

golem370
How?

golem370
He's got Totally Indestructible Durability and Unlimited Stamina and he atleast Stronger then Thor

GODSCRIBE
lol, indestructable durability??

Savage Hulk alone is a handful for Juggs, so you do the math. If not a stalemate, then Hulk and Thor win.

I don't know you picture the scenario. Hulk removes Juggs helmet, and Thor beats his head in with Mjolnir.

golem370
People make that mistake his Durablilty is not effected by his armor or Helmet.

GODSCRIBE
or you know, Hulk removes the helmet, and Juggs gets a Godforce blast to the melon. you pick..

but seriously it will be tough to take out juggs, with him being invulnerable, and the whole inertia thingy.

GODSCRIBE
Originally posted by golem370
People make that mistake his Durablilty is not effected by his armor or Helmet.

This isn't true. The armor itself has mystical properties which enhance his durability..

He loses either way.

golem370
Special Limitations: Vulnerability to certain mystic forces; vulnerability to psionic attack when not shielded by his special helmet.
Intelligence: Normal
Strength: Superhuman Class 90
Speed: Normal
Stamina: Immeasurable
Durability: Totally indestructible
Agility: Normal (2/7)
Reflexes: Normal (2/7)
Fighting Skills: Basic hand-to-hand combat techniques

golem370
Prove it show me somewhere it has Juggernaut getting his butt kicked because he is not wearing his Helmet?

GODSCRIBE
You misunderstand. I'm not saying that's the reason he'll lose. If Thor can harm a being like Galactus, then conceivably he can harm Juggs. Then Hulk only adds to the problems. Like I said, if not a stalemate then Thor and Hulk win. There's just no way Juggs can win this.

who do you think wins?

golem370
The only time Thor even came close to hurting Juggernaut was when he used this hammer to block the Cyttorak magic but the hammer had to come back to him or he would have went back to Human form.

golem370
Juggernaut outlast Thor & Hulk that how he could win.

Dark Urizen
GODSCRIBE: You're mistaking the armor for the mystical shield that he COULD but usually forgets to put around himself (i'm talking classic juggernaut). He has beaten Thor on every single occassion that i can think of when they've met. He's a non-factor. The Godforce blast was used on him and it didn't matter. Mjolnir was thrown at him, and it didn't matter, etc. etc. etc.
Savage Hulk can be as savage as he likes. there's nothing i can think of that Savage Hulk can do to hurt Juggernaut as long as he has his shield up.

Well yeah.....the only think they COULD do would be to somehow incapacitate him by dropping a mountain or something on Juggs. But he'd eventually dig his way out...

Swanky-Tuna
Thor could cut Juggernaut off from his magic again and him and the green one can go to town.

golem370
He still has his Super Strength

Swanky-Tuna
A lot of good it'll do him when Thor and Hulk are pounding on him.

golem370
They only have like 15 seconds

Ex11B
lets see...1 who is totally indestructible verus 2 who are just as strong...but..theres 2 of them..and 1 of them has a super fast healing ability,and gets stronger as he gets madder...hmmmmmmmmmm...could be quiet a while before someone goes down...

jollyjim311
I am pretty much a Juggernaut fan. Saying that I will throw this out there. How well will Hulk and Thor work together? Thor is smart, but Hulk would adopt his "Hulk smash!!!" mindset and in return get smashed... in the face...and the stomach...and the crotch (Juggernaut will fight dirty). Then it is Thor vs. Classic Juggernaut, close, but I give it to Juggernaut.

Metalmanx
Classic Juggernaut.

It's just not an issue when placing him against anyone else who isn't completely invulnerable.

Understand this, guys. He. Is. Invulnerable. Indestructable if you will.

His strength is also limitless and can continuously match Hulk's strength. The godforce is not much of a factor at all. Thor has been defeated by Juggernaut every single time. Hulk can be as savage as he wants to, he won't do anything to Juggernaut.

Juggernaut eventually wins after a couple years of fighting.

Swanky-Tuna
Cut him off from his magic!

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Cut him off from his magic! Actually it only partially stopped it because Thors hammer couldn't completely cut him off. Yes once it happens he beccomes wekaer way weaker but he was still strong and durable enough to withstand Thor's attacks when Thor was trying to put him down.
The effect though only lasted until Thors Hammer came back to him and once Juggs gets all his powers back any damage from that time wouldn't matter.

Swanky-Tuna
Think of how much Thor has improved since then.

scotsmn
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Think of how much Thor has improved since then.

and the fact that Hulk will KO him while the hammes does its thing

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Think of how much Thor has improved since then. Yes but think of the fact that Juggs still gets alot of power and think about the fact that once he gets his power back he basically heals up and is at 100% again no matter what. They proabably even KO him yet once his powers got back he would wake up.

scotsmn
KO counts as a win

Swanky-Tuna
Yeah, if they KO him while his powers are gone that's a win.

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Yeah, if they KO him while his powers are gone that's a win. Not really as he mayed be KOed but he would still be able to continue the fight once the Hammers powers stop and where not talking years here where talking a minute and Juggernaut wouldn't even be KOed for the entire minute just probably until a full 30 seconds in.
Then he gets back up and is 100% these battle as stated by forum rules go until one or both combatants can no longer cont its obvious Juggs can still cont.

Swanky-Tuna
But he'd be unconcious. This is along the lines of people who say "So X kills Doomsday once and he comes back. Then what?"

It doesn't matter if your opponent kills you when you get the flag back to base, you still got the point.

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
But he'd be unconcious. This is along the lines of people who say "So X kills Doomsday once and he comes back. Then what?"

It doesn't matter if your opponent kills you when you get the flag back to base, you still got the point. Yes but Juggernaut isn't dead just KOed and these guys aren't killing him in under a minute. He would still be stronger than Thing and Thing can last at least a minute with these guys and be nothing more than KOed but unlike Thing Juggs would awake and be back up in a few seconds.
Plus when DD dies it takes him awhile for him to come back not in this fight with Juggs.

Swanky-Tuna
How far back was it when Thor cut Juggernaut's power off? Was it back when he needed his hammer to do anything?

newjak86
It was in Thor#429

Decay
with thor removing juggernauts powers hulk could take him down but couldnt do any lasting damage. apart from war hulk, i havent seen the hulk actually damage the juggernaut. as far as kinetic force goes id say the juggernaut is as indestructible as you will find. his helmet being gone doesnt matter at all, unless one of them have a telepathic attack.

juggernaut has taken the godforce and kept walking as though it was just another futile attack. the only thing tor did was negate juggernauts powers for a time, get some shots in and run away once they returned.

even if they managed to get though and seriously injure him, say tearing his heart out or something, it still wouldnt have much effect. he survived as a crimson skeleton after having his flesh magically torn from him. it would take a long time but the only real outcome i can see is juggernaut winning. you can count a brief ko after his powers are gone if you like, but if its to the death or beating them down so their out for an extended period juggernaut takes it.

scotsmn
Originally posted by Decay
with thor removing juggernauts powers hulk could take him down but couldnt do any lasting damage. apart from war hulk, i havent seen the hulk actually damage the juggernaut. as far as kinetic force goes id say the juggernaut is as indestructible as you will find. his helmet being gone doesnt matter at all, unless one of them have a telepathic attack.

juggernaut has taken the godforce and kept walking as though it was just another futile attack. the only thing tor did was negate juggernauts powers for a time, get some shots in and run away once they returned.

even if they managed to get though and seriously injure him, say tearing his heart out or something, it still wouldnt have much effect. he survived as a crimson skeleton after having his flesh magically torn from him. it would take a long time but the only real outcome i can see is juggernaut winning. you can count a brief ko after his powers are gone if you like, but if its to the death or beating them down so their out for an extended period juggernaut takes it.

Umm Jugs without his powers is just a large man. Hulk could rip him into pieces, eat some of them... send some into space.. make a coat out of his skin...etc.

KO = win

Otherwise Hulk would never lose since he can be turned into atoms and come back to life (ex. Maestro / Hulk The End)

Metalmanx
Juggernaut isn't about to be knocked out by these two, even using Thor's ability to only slightly decrease Juggy's forcefield. Juggernaut is still inulnerable. And still able to match the strength of the Hulk, no matter how angry Hulkie gets. The fighters getting KOed are Hulk and Thor after a looong battle.

Eternity
Juggernaut has recently been rated class 90 and savage hulk starts at class 100. Juggernauts strength does not increase and he cannot match hulks limitless stength. Juggernaut has only limitless pushing power and the line the juggernaut is unstoppable has been proven wrong by onslaught. During the savage hulk juggernaut fight hulk knocked him aroumd beat him up and threw him into a mountain. This may not have hurt juggs but it still counts as a points victory for hulk. Thor and hulk are both stronger than juggernaut and they would not knock him out they would only hit him hundreds of miles away just like onslaught did and this would count as a victory for them

doomsday49
I second Eternity. I can't believe this is an issue. Any one of these guys is a match for jugg, having two of them is too onesided. Juggernaut is sick, don't get me wrong. Actually he is one of my favorite character but come on now, a match with one of these guy usually result in a stalemate, against two is either unanimous decision or k.o.

Metalmanx
I dunno where you're looking, my friend, but Juggernaut is has always been class 100. Same as Hulk. And yes, Juggernaut's strength is unlimited, just like Hulk's. Juggy can easily match any strength Hulk throws his way.

Onslaught stopped him because he was a being of pure psionic energy. What's that? Oh yes, Juggernaut's MAIN WEAKNESS. Onslaught was so powerful that it penetrated Juggy's forcefield.

Hulk, on the other hand, is not able to do such things. Nor can Thor.

Again, Juggernaut eventually wins.

Eternity
Where did you see juggernaut has unlimited strength he has only be said to have unlimited invulnerability and pushing power. It was in the 2005 hulk annual that he was rated a class 90. The same onslaught who was a being of pure psionic energy hulk broke his armor. Hulk has overcome juggernaut on his own so saying he cant win with thors help is ridiculous/stupid/unreasonable and completely illogical

By the way when a characters upper limit is unknown does not mean he has limitless strength. Doc samson has said that hulk strength is limitless so has the leader and sooooooooooo has MARVEL

scotsmn
Originally posted by Eternity
Juggernaut has recently been rated class 90 and savage hulk starts at class 100. Juggernauts strength does not increase and he cannot match hulks limitless stength. Juggernaut has only limitless pushing power and the line the juggernaut is unstoppable has been proven wrong by onslaught. During the savage hulk juggernaut fight hulk knocked him aroumd beat him up and threw him into a mountain. This may not have hurt juggs but it still counts as a points victory for hulk. Thor and hulk are both stronger than juggernaut and they would not knock him out they would only hit him hundreds of miles away just like onslaught did and this would count as a victory for them

CORRECT yes

Decay
even with thor negating a large portion of his power juggernaut was still able to take alot of abuse from him, he wouldnt simply revert back to normal human cain marko, thor couldnt take that much of his power. as far as i know he heals almost instantly when his power is returned and he suffers no exhaustion or fatigue from it. the hulk could eat his heart lungs and whatever other organs he wanted and the juggernaut would heal as soon as his power returned.

the less said about onslaught the better, juggernaut was used to establish him as a major threat, since when has the gem of cytorak been in his chest? unless onslaught was using the equivalent of something far more powerful than thors godforce in his two fingers when he pulled the gem out the idea of it occuring contradicts alot of things the juggernaut has survived prior.

he has a weakness to psychic power, but only to his mind. ill also point out that juggernauts helmet is supposed to shield his mind from any form of telepathy but psylock was able to access his mind with it on.

also as far as i know his strength is beyond class 100, i saw a list somewhere of marvels strongest characters and juggernaut was on it, along with hulk and apocalypse and a few others. it was basically a list of characters whos strength has no real limit, apocalypse can enhance his to a seeminly limitless degree, as can the hulk, and juggernauts is up with the two of them.

i agree that either of these individually would be a handful for the juggernaut, they could throw him around and put up a good fight, but neither of them could beat him. put together they would be a bigger handful but they still cant take him down for an extended time. they can probably achieve a ko win but anything beyond it is out of their power.

scotsmn
Originally posted by Decay

i agree that either of these individually would be a handful for the juggernaut


yes...

Originally posted by Decay

they can probably achieve a ko win but anything beyond it is out of their power.

That's all that is necessary.

Eternity
I am not saying jugs is not strong but saying he can match hulk in strength is not correct. One of these could handle him so twof them would have no problem.

Dark Urizen
Originally posted by Decay
even with thor negating a large portion of his power juggernaut was still able to take alot of abuse from him, he wouldnt simply revert back to normal human cain marko, thor couldnt take that much of his power. as far as i know he heals almost instantly when his power is returned and he suffers no exhaustion or fatigue from it. the hulk could eat his heart lungs and whatever other organs he wanted and the juggernaut would heal as soon as his power returned.

the less said about onslaught the better, juggernaut was used to establish him as a major threat, since when has the gem of cytorak been in his chest? unless onslaught was using the equivalent of something far more powerful than thors godforce in his two fingers when he pulled the gem out the idea of it occuring contradicts alot of things the juggernaut has survived prior.

he has a weakness to psychic power, but only to his mind. ill also point out that juggernauts helmet is supposed to shield his mind from any form of telepathy but psylock was able to access his mind with it on.

also as far as i know his strength is beyond class 100, i saw a list somewhere of marvels strongest characters and juggernaut was on it, along with hulk and apocalypse and a few others. it was basically a list of characters whos strength has no real limit, apocalypse can enhance his to a seeminly limitless degree, as can the hulk, and juggernauts is up with the two of them.

i agree that either of these individually would be a handful for the juggernaut, they could throw him around and put up a good fight, but neither of them could beat him. put together they would be a bigger handful but they still cant take him down for an extended time. they can probably achieve a ko win but anything beyond it is out of their power.

I thought Psylocke did that because she managed to stab him with her psychic blade. Not that it mattered much to him.

Anyway, as has been mentioned, when Thor does the magic trick, not all of the Cytorrak power is taken from Juggs. Just a bit. WHen it returns some seconds later, he is fully restored and ready to fight.
Yeah, the two could probably manage a 15 second long KO. Would that be good enough by KMC rules? Yeah. Would it really be a win? No. A hollow victory at best seeing as how the second he returned he'd be just as fine.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Eternity
Where did you see juggernaut has unlimited strength he has only be said to have unlimited invulnerability and pushing power. It was in the 2005 hulk annual that he was rated a class 90. The same onslaught who was a being of pure psionic energy hulk broke his armor. Hulk has overcome juggernaut on his own so saying he cant win with thors help is ridiculous/stupid/unreasonable and completely illogical

By the way when a characters upper limit is unknown does not mean he has limitless strength. Doc samson has said that hulk strength is limitless so has the leader and sooooooooooo has MARVEL

Woah woah woah.

First of all, are you referring to Current Juggernaut? Cuz yes, he has been depowered. Still class 100 mind you, but depowered nonetheless.

Second. This thread is CLASSIC Juggernaut. Enough said.

Third. When have you ever seen anything, sans adamantium, that Juggy couldn't lift/break/destory? You haven't. Because he's always been able to increase his strength to whatever he needed it to do.

Fourth. When has Hulk beaten Juggernaut on his own? Note: I ask when has Hulk done it on his own. As in no Celestial Tech. That would be War Hulk anyway. This is Savage Hulk. Besides, without the help of even his armor, Juggernaut ALMOST KILLED HULK. He would've killed him, too, had not Red Skull told Juggy to stop.

Fifth. I could care less what your handbook says, no offense. But handbooks are about as consistant as Wolverine's healing factor.

In case you didn't get that, extremely inconsistant.

So, again. Classic Juggernaut eventually wins.

Edit: And 15 seconds wouldn't be nearly enough time for them to knock out a BARELY HINDERED Juggernaut. He's still as strong as the Hulk, and is still, for all basic purposes, invulnerable.

doomsday49
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Woah woah woah.

, Juggernaut ALMOST KILLED HULK.
,.

LOL...Really..when???

scotsmn
A KO is a KO. And in those 15 seconds Thor can warp him to the sun.

doomsday49
Originally posted by scotsmn
A KO is a KO. And in those 15 seconds Thor can warp him to the sun.

Though i see him losing a unanimous lost, i can't see him getting k.o. though.

Eternity
It juggernaut a month to break out of concrete and a decade to crawl out of that mountain. Hulk 172 hulk throws juggernaut around and eventually throws him into a mountain You want to tell me this is not a victory just because it is not a ko. Juggernaut also only beat professor hulk not savage hulk. Saying juggernaut has unlimited strength is preposterous. A person with unlimited strength could not breakout of alittle concrete? Hulk was also trying to find out who juggernaut was and did not put up much resistance to juggernaut as he did not know who he was fighting. This was also prof hulk

Savage hulk alone can do it adding thor is going to make it worse. They would both knock him miles away just like onslaught did and he would just stop fighting knowing there would be know way to win. I have not even considered thors magic. THERE IS NO WAY JUGGERNAUT STANDS A CHANCE IN THIS

nimrod009
This is a difficult one! Things I do know:

-Thor can temporarily negate Juggernaut's magic.
- Savage Hulk is capable of doing MASSIVE damage in a short time.

I'm pretty sure that working together they can hurt Juggernaut. Can Juggernaut be killed during the time space that Thor can cut off his magic if he's hurt enough, or does he regenerate no matter what?

Fanboy
Wait people thinik Juggernaut would beat Savage Hulk and Thor with ease but Superman and Thor or Superman and Captain Marvel (DC) could team up and beat his ass? Well I think Juggernaut loses this fight he might as well run around naked in a Donkey farm so he can get raped.

Decay
juggernaut has been incased in a very large amount of steel that was moulded into a cocoon by thor in Thor #411-412, he burst out of it in seconds but he had already been transported from the fight. contrete wouldnt do much. the marvel directory basically says his strength is limitless

"Marko and Cassidy each claimed to have half Marko's previous power, but this is inaccurate, considering that the Juggernaut's previous power level was virtually immeasurable."

"The Juggernaut possesses Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. The Juggernaut is said to be unstoppable, and the upper limit to his strength is not known."

the most he could be koed for is 60 seconds, thats how long thor could neutralise his power before his hammer must return to him. juggernaut can still take full strength shots from thor and keep fighting in this state so say hulk and thor take 20 or so seconds to actually put him out that means hes down for about 40. after which hes fully healed and no worse off than when he began.

a 40 second ko might be considered a win, but even so thor and the hulk are going to be the ones clearing the area as soon as hes down because he wont be staying there long. a pretty hollow victory at best. if they had even a mild telepath with them id give it to thor and hulk easy. i dont think putting someone down for a matter of seconds counts as a real victory, but they can ko him and take a cheap win.

thesilverspider
its been years since the 60 second hammer thing was taken away.

Decay
really? last time i saw them fight it was still around and thor effectivly removed the juggernaut from the fight. well in that case juggernaut and thor can keep him down until 60 seconds after thors magic negation runs out or he stops it. a bit more legitamate but it still needs their constant attention to keep him down.

thesilverspider
Originally posted by Decay
really? last time i saw them fight it was still around and thor effectivly removed the juggernaut from the fight. well in that case juggernaut and thor can keep him down until 60 seconds after thors magic negation runs out or he stops it. a bit more legitamate but it still needs their constant attention to keep him down.
exactly that was years ago beta ray bill's hammer has the enchantment not thor's.the only way i see them winning is if thor teleports juggs via the hammer.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by Eternity
During the savage hulk juggernaut fight hulk knocked him aroumd beat him up and threw him into a mountain. This may not have hurt juggs but it still counts as a points victory for hulk.
That makes no sense. The fight was interrupted and they were both getting in good shots. Calling it a win because Hulk got the last attack is just stupid. And it wasn't even a mountain, it was just an outcropping of rock.

Originally posted by Eternity
Juggernauts strength does not increase
It does if he focuses his power. He seems to do it subconsciously.

Originally posted by Eternity
Where did you see juggernaut has unlimited strength he has only be said to have unlimited invulnerability and pushing power. It was in the 2005 hulk annual that he was rated a class 90.
Considering Juggernaut's been around for over 40 years, I wouldn't call what the 2005 hulk handbook says as Juggernaut's classic stats. And how many times do you have to be told that Juggernaut had been depowered for some time when that was written?


He was made of pure psionic energy after Hulk cracked Onslaught's armor and he had help to do it.

golem370
They only Juggernaut that at class90 is the Current one not the Classic one which is on this thread.

Decay
speaking of when hulk threw him into that mountain, wasnt the only effect of that to cause the juggernaut to wonder if hulk mind was capable of understanding unstoppable. right before he dove off and landed on hulk with both feet driving him into the ground?

golem370
"The Juggernaut possesses Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. The Juggernaut is said to be unstoppable, and the upper limit to his strength is not known".

" Until recent times, the Juggernaut possessed a variety of superhuman physical abilities mystical in origin.

The Juggernaut possessed vast superhuman strength, the limits of which were never revealed. The Juggernaut's strength was sufficient for him to battle powerhouses such as Thor and the Incredible Hulk, placing his strength well into the Class 100 level, being able to lift in excess of 100 tons. Truly, only the Hulk was ever observed to be able to match the Juggernaut's nearly limitless physical strength

Aside from his incredible strength, the Juggernaut's body possessed an extraordinary degree of invulnerability to injury, allowing him to trade blows with some of the strongest heroes of the Marvel Universe. The Juggernaut could withstand high powered energy blasts, falls from great heights, exposure to temperatures greater than that of the surface of the Sun, exposure to vaccum environments, etc. without sustaining even the slightest injury The Juggernaut could increase his invulnerability to even higher levels by generating a mystical forcefield around his body. This field was sufficient to enable him to withstand powerful energy blasts from beings as powerful as the Silver Surfer, multiple blows from Thor's hammer, and Wolverine's adamantium claws.

The Juggernaut was, literally, an unstoppable force. Once in motion, whether it be running or walking, no physical force could prevent his forward momentum. His pace could be slowed considerably by powerful energy blasts, many tons of rocks, etc. but nothing completely halted his forward momentum. This is true with the one exception of his battle with the Incredible Hulk as War II where much to Juggernaut's shock he was stopped".

Marvel own Wed Site gives him a 7 Strength level which is Incalcuable Strength on par with Hulk Thanos Thor Abomination and The Destroyer.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by Decay
speaking of when hulk threw him into that mountain, wasnt the only effect of that to cause the juggernaut to wonder if hulk mind was capable of understanding unstoppable. right before he dove off and landed on hulk with both feet driving him into the ground?
I'm not sure but I recall a panel similar to that. It might of happened earlier because I remember Hulk holding Juggernaut's helmet saying something like "Me think me won?"

Metalmanx
Originally posted by golem370
"The Juggernaut possesses Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. The Juggernaut is said to be unstoppable, and the upper limit to his strength is not known".

" Until recent times, the Juggernaut possessed a variety of superhuman physical abilities mystical in origin.

The Juggernaut possessed vast superhuman strength, the limits of which were never revealed. The Juggernaut's strength was sufficient for him to battle powerhouses such as Thor and the Incredible Hulk, placing his strength well into the Class 100 level, being able to lift in excess of 100 tons. Truly, only the Hulk was ever observed to be able to match the Juggernaut's nearly limitless physical strength

Aside from his incredible strength, the Juggernaut's body possessed an extraordinary degree of invulnerability to injury, allowing him to trade blows with some of the strongest heroes of the Marvel Universe. The Juggernaut could withstand high powered energy blasts, falls from great heights, exposure to temperatures greater than that of the surface of the Sun, exposure to vaccum environments, etc. without sustaining even the slightest injury The Juggernaut could increase his invulnerability to even higher levels by generating a mystical forcefield around his body. This field was sufficient to enable him to withstand powerful energy blasts from beings as powerful as the Silver Surfer, multiple blows from Thor's hammer, and Wolverine's adamantium claws.

The Juggernaut was, literally, an unstoppable force. Once in motion, whether it be running or walking, no physical force could prevent his forward momentum. His pace could be slowed considerably by powerful energy blasts, many tons of rocks, etc. but nothing completely halted his forward momentum. This is true with the one exception of his battle with the Incredible Hulk as War II where much to Juggernaut's shock he was stopped".

Marvel own Wed Site gives him a 7 Strength level which is Incalcuable Strength on par with Hulk Thanos Thor Abomination and The Destroyer.

Sigh...why can't people understand these very simple facts? Good post, golem370.

Even without his mystical shield, he's still virtually invulnerable. That means, even if Thor only PARTIALLY negates Juggernaut's mystical shield, he's still barely done anything at all, since Juggy will still be invulnerable.

It would really just be a waste of time for Thor to even try that. If your only way for him to win is a ring-out, then that's pretty sad.

I didn't know one could easily defeat Juggernaut by throwing him in a mountain...confused

Classic Juggernaut can't be beat by these two, no matter how much you guys want it to happen.

Classic Juggy 10/10.

Swanky-Tuna
I feel like I've helped create a monster that cannot be fed.

Dark Urizen
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I didn't know one could easily defeat Juggernaut by throwing him in a mountain...confused

A superstrong character that uses telekinesis in order to use his powers such as Gladiator or one that uses tactile telekinesis such as Superboy could concievably pick up a mountain and drop it on Juggernaut, effectively slowing him down to the point of stopping him. When he first got the gem and the mountain collapsed think about how long it took him to get out.

But just throwing him into some rocks and boulders won't do crap.

Swanky-Tuna
If you look at his other strength feats, it looks more likely that taking so long to get out of the mountain was just a plot device to explain why he wasn't already a known criminal and/or harassing the x-men before his first appearance.

Eternity
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
That makes no sense. The fight was interrupted and they were both getting in good shots. Calling it a win because Hulk got the last attack is just stupid. And it wasn't even a mountain, it was just an outcropping of rock.


It does if he focuses his power. He seems to do it subconsciously.


Considering Juggernaut's been around for over 40 years, I wouldn't call what the 2005 hulk handbook says as Juggernaut's classic stats. And how many times do you have to be told that Juggernaut had been depowered for some time when that was written?


He was made of pure psionic energy after Hulk cracked Onslaught's armor and he had help to do it.

Hulk began to walk away afterhe thought he had won. If it was a normal hit would he have thought he had won or even started walking away? It is after hulk starts walking away that the Xmen mind blast jugs.

Jugs does not have unlimited strength. Saying that just because jugs is rated 7 just like hulk on marvels website does not mean he is equal to hulk in strength. Hulk is also rated 7 in durability just like juggernaut does this mean he is equal to him?Please tell me some of jugs strength feats can any of them match hulks

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by Eternity
Hulk began to walk away afterhe thought he had won. If it was a normal hit would he have thought he had won or even started walking away? It is after hulk starts walking away that the Xmen mind blast jugs.
He thought he won because he removed Juggernauts helmet possibly thinking he decapitated Juggernaut.


I didn't say he did.

Eternity
A mountain has also fallen or at least obstructed hulk as wellhttp://

jollyjim311
Incredible Hulk #402, Hulk gets pounded into submission by Juggernaut.

Eternity
Hulk got beaten by juggernaut in that comic because he did not know who juggernaut was and was still trying to find out who he was while jugs was attacking him. He did not put up much resistance and even when he had the upper hand offered to help juggernaut. Jugs then capitalized on this and started beating hulk up. This was also proffessor hulk. Juggernaut did not fight in a fair situation as hulk thought he was a construction worker and because if this did not fight juggernaut initially allowing jugs to get the upper hand

Swanky-Tuna
When you're Hulk, how do you think a man as big as you and beating the crap out of you is a construction worker?

jollyjim311
Simple, you have to be as retarded as the Hulk. And it was Professor Hulk, what an idiot!

Eternity
It was proffessor hulk who is not really that tall. He is about the same height as thor and knowing he was much stronger than any human he braced himself not to be moved by him but juggernaut was able to move him and they both fell over a cliff

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Eternity
Hulk got beaten by juggernaut in that comic because he did not know who juggernaut was and was still trying to find out who he was while jugs was attacking him. He did not put up much resistance and even when he had the upper hand offered to help juggernaut. Jugs then capitalized on this and started beating hulk up. This was also proffessor hulk. Juggernaut did not fight in a fair situation as hulk thought he was a construction worker and because if this did not fight juggernaut initially allowing jugs to get the upper hand

You're really stretching there, my friend. Unknown to him or not, if someone is kicking your ass, you don't "hold back". Don't give me that crap. Juggy beat the hell out of him. And then almost killed him.

If you're at the brink of death, are you still worried about who your attacker is? Not at all.

Juggernaut does indeed have limitless, uncharted strength. One of those nice little gifts from Cyttorak. Don't believe if you want, but it's the truth.

Swanky-Tuna
I don't believe he has unlimited strength because neither him nor cyttorak have limitless power in general. But I do believe it can get way up there. Especially if he stopped being a dope and learned to focus his powers.

leonidas
<<Juggernaut does indeed have limitless, uncharted strength.>>

no

Metalmanx
When have you ever seen anything physically that Juggernaut couldn't break/push/lift/tear/destory? He trades blows with Hulk. Blows that actually hurt and damage the Hulk. Hulk's strength and durability then increases with rage as the fight goes on. Juggy's hits still continue to damage and hurt Hulk.

Therefore, Juggernaut has limitless physical strength. I dunno why this is so hard to fathom.

Swanky-Tuna
At any given time, Hulk has finite strength. It increases as he gets more angry and can increase infinitely. It doesn't mean he walks around with literally infinite strength.

long pig
Jug has shown nearly limitless strength everytime he starts to use his walk forward power.

Decay
yeah hulk has limitless potential. the capacity for infinate strength but he starts out around class 100 and incrementally goes up during a fight when he gets angry. is he had limitless strength all the time the amount of effort he put in something would be meaningless. he could swing a casual backhand that could have the force or every star in the universe exploding if his strength was infinite.

kgkg
Originally posted by long pig
Jug has shown nearly limitless strength everytime he starts to use his walk forward power. prove it evil face

long pig
Originally posted by kgkg
prove it evil face
NO!

kgkg
Originally posted by long pig
NO! blink messed

scotsmn
Originally posted by Metalmanx
When have you ever seen anything physically that Juggernaut couldn't break/push/lift/tear/destory? He trades blows with Hulk. Blows that actually hurt and damage the Hulk. Hulk's strength and durability then increases with rage as the fight goes on. Juggy's hits still continue to damage and hurt Hulk.

Therefore, Juggernaut has limitless physical strength. I dunno why this is so hard to fathom.

When have I ever seen anything Juggernaut couldn't break/push/lift/tear/destroy?

Onslaught.

10 years to move a mountain is a pretty poor showing for "unlimited strength". There has been another time where it took him like a year to get out from under something.

Juggernaut does not, does not, does not have unlimited strength. He thought he had unlimited momentum though.. that whole "once in motion, juggernaut cannot be stopped" thing. War Hulk showed even that had its limit.

As already stated, Cyttorak himself does NOT have unlimited power, and Juggernaut cannot be stronger than the limit of the power that feeds him sooo.........

newjak86
Originally posted by scotsmn
When have I ever seen anything Juggernaut couldn't break/push/lift/tear/destroy?

Onslaught.

10 years to move a mountain is a pretty poor showing for "unlimited strength". There has been another time where it took him like a year to get out from under something.

Juggernaut does not, does not, does not have unlimited strength. He thought he had unlimited momentum though.. that whole "once in motion, juggernaut cannot be stopped" thing. War Hulk showed even that had its limit.

As already stated, Cyttorak himself does NOT have unlimited power, and Juggernaut cannot be stronger than the limit of the power that feeds him sooo......... Actually Onslaught is a joke and nobody except people trying to prove Hulk wins ever really use him because the writing in it is so BS.
Secondly War Hulk stopped Juggs because he was using Celestial Armor which happens to be one of Juggs only weaknesses. You see when put against mystical forces that are equal to or higher than his source him being only a fraction of its power can be effected like a normal human being. This is why he can be cut by magical swords.
Thirdly once upon a time the then writers of Hulk asked who they thought was the strongest person in Marvel.
The writer then said we would like to say our own green skinned hero but the general concensus around the office is Juggernaut why do to Cyttorak haveing unlimited power. wink

Swanky-Tuna
If Cyttorak had unlimited power he would be like TOAA. You can have power that stretches to the edge of the cosmos, from time and back, to the brink of infinite, but it would still be finite.

So it could be possible that they will never fight long enough that Hulk's infinite possibility of strength ever comes into play depending on how high Juggernaut's strength is capped. It's uncharted.

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
If Cyttorak had unlimited power he would be like TOAA. You can have power that stretches to the edge of the cosmos, from time and back, to the brink of infinite, but it would still be finite.

So it could be possible that they will never fight long enough that Hulk's infinite possibility of strength ever comes into play depending on how high Juggernaut's strength is capped. It's uncharted. Then it would in turn be impossible for Hulk to have unlimited strength as if the only thing that is unlimited is TOAA wink
Cyttorak has massive power already it is appears to be incalculable in the Crimson Cosmos and it isn't me who said he had unlimited power it was the writers for Hulk. evil face

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by newjak86
Then it would in turn be impossible for Hulk to have unlimited strength as if the only thing that is unlimited is TOAA wink
It could be that the dimension Hulk draws his power from is infinitely large.

golem370
I thought it was stupid when on the X-Men cartoon where Gladiator beat Juggernaut when Rogue was fight pretty good against Gladiator she just didn't have the Durability and Stamnia and not as strong as Gladiator.

Eternity
It took juggernaut years to get out from a mountain but hulk simply smashed it and people still claim he has unlimited strength. Cyttorak probably does not have infinite strength as he is only one being. Hulk strength has been said to come from another dimension which may be infinitely large as it provides him with the strength he needs depending on the importance. When has hulk not been strong enough to do something never. Different tests have also been run on hulk and the results have ended up proving that his strength is immesurable or limitless

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by golem370
I thought it was stupid when on the X-Men cartoon where Gladiator beat Juggernaut when Rogue was fight pretty good against Gladiator she just didn't have the Durability and Stamnia and not as strong as Gladiator.
Yeah, that was dumb but it was really just to show the kids how powerful Phoenix was because she then rocked Gladiator easily.

A lot like how Juggernaut was used to show how powerful Onslaught was.

Originally posted by Eternity
It took juggernaut years to get out from a mountain
Be careful when humping plot devices. It might turn on and you could lose something very important.

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
It could be that the dimension Hulk draws his power from is infinitely large. Yes but then in turn you can could say that Cyttoraks power is drawn from the Crimson Cosmos which may also be infinitely large. You can not disrgard one unlimited for another especially when it has been stated by writers for Marvel.

outarddwarf
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I'm not sure but I recall a panel similar to that. It might of happened earlier because I remember Hulk holding Juggernaut's helmet saying something like "Me think me won?"


yep similar to that but juggs was behind him completly unharmed.

outarddwarf
Originally posted by Eternity
Hulk began to walk away afterhe thought he had won. If it was a normal hit would he have thought he had won or even started walking away? It is after hulk starts walking away that the Xmen mind blast jugs.

Jugs does not have unlimited strength. Saying that just because jugs is rated 7 just like hulk on marvels website does not mean he is equal to hulk in strength. Hulk is also rated 7 in durability just like juggernaut does this mean he is equal to him?Please tell me some of jugs strength feats can any of them match hulks

let this sink in a little bit. This is with his powers having recently been drained by D'Spayer in front of him and his flesh was melted from his bones. Now if, with power drain similar to thor dampening with the hammer, he can still go to fight, than alot of blunt trauma will not do what is needed to knock him out of the fight.

Eternity
If the only way to beat juggernaut was to knock him out he would be undefeatable however these are two people who are at least equal if not superior to him in strength. Thor and hulk can win by removing him from the battlefield.

newjak86
Originally posted by Eternity
If the only way to beat juggernaut was to knock him out he would be undefeatable however these are two people who are at least equal if not superior to him in strength. Thor and hulk can win by removing him from the battlefield. And that is the only way they can win while Juggs can win in other ways for instance killing them.

Eternity
Jugs cannot kill them instantly because they are no wimps they can both hold there own with him. He would have to wait for them to tire in order to gain the upper hand these guys however dont tire easily as they have superhuman stamina not a match for juggernauts but enough for this battle. They will figure out long before they get tired the only way to win and will do what they need to do.

newjak86
Originally posted by Eternity
Jugs cannot kill them instantly because they are no wimps they can both hold there own with him. He would have to wait for them to tire in order to gain the upper hand these guys however dont tire easily as they have superhuman stamina not a match for juggernauts but enough for this battle. They will figure out long before they get tired the only way to win and will do what they need to do. Which is battle field removal.

Eternity
Exactly

newjak86
Originally posted by Eternity
Exactly But the only reason Thor teleported Juggs away is because Juggs was putting civilans in danger bbut we know Thor is a warrior first and he would rather die then accept the fact he will loose a fist fight.
And Hulk well he can't even teleport anyways.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by outarddwarf
let this sink in a little bit. This is with his powers having recently been drained by D'Spayer in front of him and his flesh was melted from his bones. Now if, with power drain similar to thor dampening with the hammer, he can still go to fight, than alot of blunt trauma will not do what is needed to knock him out of the fight.
Keep in mind, Juggernaut didn't fight at all while a skeleton. We have no idea if he was in any condition to do battle.

I contend that since the feat of Thor using his hammer to cut off Juggernaut's magic happened almost 15 years ago he would of improved his skill enough for it to be truely a crippling blow against Juggernaut.

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Keep in mind, Juggernaut didn't fight at all while a skeleton. We have no idea if he was in any condition to do battle.

I contend that since the feat of Thor using his hammer to cut off Juggernaut's magic happened almost 15 years ago he would of improved his skill enough for it to be truely a crippling blow against Juggernaut. That is true but remeber he didn't completely negate Juggernauts power because he couldn't completely stop the flow of Cyttorak's power which I think would still happen.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by newjak86
That is true but remeber he didn't completely negate Juggernauts power because he couldn't completely stop the flow of Cyttorak's power which I think would still happen.
It's been FIFTEEN years though. Fifteen! That's like how many miles your grampa walks through the snow barefoot for a drink of water.

newjak86
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
It's been FIFTEEN years though. Fifteen! That's like how many miles your grampa walks through the snow barefoot for a drink of water. Yeah and he has gotten alot more skilled with it but honestly I don't think his mastery of it means that much as I feel it has to do with the fact that Cyttorak is just to powerful for Thor to completely stop his power from getting to cain. I feel that it would be more or less what happened last time.

guy222
hulk/thor

Ptr_Grifin
About the Mountain thing.

First off Cain was trapped under TRILLIONS of TONS of broken/lose rock. The mountain had been bombarded with shells earlier. Yet Cain was still able to move under all that weight. As far as I know, Hulk or Thor hasn't lifted anything around the weight area. I am not sure though.

Lets put this into perspective. You are trapped under a material slightly denser than jello, so you are still able to move. You reach your hand forward to pull yourself out, but all you are able to do is claw at the material and pull little bits back to you at a time. Then you try and lift the material, but your hands and arms only push up through the broken substance.

Now Cain was trapped under all that weight, trying to claw his way out after figuring he isn't going to be able to lift it because it is in a billion trillion little pieces. So with that, he begins the long tedious process of basically tunneling his way out. Now the mountain is pushing force down on him so he isn't able to move fast at all. Every time he tries to step his foot easily just pushing back down into the rock. And from the comics, Cain was trapped under miles of rock.

psycho gundam
all thor has to do is recycle what he did when he first fought juggernaut,
but instead go for the killing blow before time runs through. hulk is a distraction due to the fact that juggy can't feel his fists....at all! he just throws the helmet away and thunderclap a bunch of times.

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