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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6573660441809242121&q=conspiracy

Dr. Michael Parenti, one of North America's leading radical writers on U.S. imperialism and interventionism, fascism, democracy and the media, spoke to several hunded people at St. Andrews Wesley Church in Vancouver.

Dr. Parenti has taught political science at a number of colleges and universities in the United States and other countries. He was written 250 majro magazine articles and 15 books and is frequently heard on public and alternative radio.

Globalization is an attempt to extend corporate monopoly control over the whole globe. Over every national economy. Over every local economy Over every life.
.......................

if your not too busy, check out the video and discuss what this guy has to say. does wealth create poverty?

The super rich, the less than 1 percent of the population who own the lion's share of the nation's wealth, go uncounted in most income distribution reports. Even those who purport to study the question regularly overlook the very wealthiest among us. For instance, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, relying on the latest U.S. Census Bureau data, released a report in December 1997 showing that in the last two decades "incomes of the richest fifth increased by 30 percent or nearly $27,000 after adjusting for inflation." The average income of the top 20 percent was $117,500, or almost 13 times larger than the $9,250 average income of the poorest 20 percent.


http://www.michaelparenti.org/Superrich.html

I will be shocked if anyone watches an hour long speach....

so wud i. they'll watch the latest game show though. disturbin

theres a time an a place for info shows... while comedy is welcome at any time...

I've listened to 14mins of it... I think I get the gist of it...

Capitalism is bad... But whats the correct govenement? deano

Socialism of course!

Originally posted by soleran30
Socialism of course!

Yeah, would be ine too, right after fascism and an absolutistic monarchy.

fascism is where we are heading. we are well on the way

Originally posted by Deano
fascism is where we are heading. we are well on the way


Govt's evolve to suit the growth of a civilization. Isn't there a thread for your theories anyway.......................one thing to be informed and have an understanding ITS alot different to live with paranoia

balls, have you viewed the video? guess not. comment on that if you wish

"No matter how paranoid you are, what they're actually doing is worse than you can possibily imagine.

Well I watched it through... I've heard most of it before...

So deano Whats the answer then??? If they got rid of bush tommorrow what govenment should they put in place?

"No matter how paranoid you are, what they're actually doing is worse than you can possibily imagine."

Yeah now thats a subjective statement and thats why the "theorists" stir the pot and create their own "solution" with people they control with fear......................create doubt then present a solution and bam a new world order with these new "leaders"

Well, he raises some valid points. Corporations already completely control The United States. I give it another decade before they completely control the world. In reality government is a myth anymore.

I think it was Churchill who said "that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Which is kind of true, it has it's problems, but compared to all those past forms, well, history speaks for itself.

Personally, I don't think we are heading towards fascism, the conditions needed for that kind of government to form, and more importantly be supported, just aren't right at the moment.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Well I watched it through... I've heard most of it before...

So deano Whats the answer then??? If they got rid of bush tommorrow what govenment should they put in place?


a small group of utterly conscienceless rich white men whose demented, inbred families have ruled the whole world from behind the scenes for probably five hundred years and maybe much longer. they call the shots.
bush is only a small part of the problem, you have to realise that. he is a puppet like everyone else in the government.

from other thread

http://rense.com/general46/whatdo.html

Well its interesting... but it doesn't really help...
Its like getting told that the snake that just bit you was poisonous...

Capitalism4eva

So in all seriousness Deano whats your solution...............not words from someone else that you agree with but an idea or steps to take to create a solution.

At the end of the day power will fall into someone's hands whether its Bush or Kerry or whoever. What in the world makes you think I would prefer these guys you quote over the current system.

Poverty creates wealth as wealth creates poverty. So it has been since the dawn of man. Unless we have unlimited resources and everyone gets what they want, we will always have poverty. To think otherwise, is delusion.

Property is theft
Property is freedom
Property is impossible
-Pierre Joseph Proudhon

Originally posted by Deano
fascism is where we are heading. we are well on the way

Problem?

you tell me

Jellos has it. It is property that creates poverty. Wealth is just the modern means of regulating property.

But so long as anyone can own things, there will always be some that have much less than the average.

Obviously, you can never have people not owning things, so that's that. It is part of life.

money is the problem
so, with every problem ..... you solve it ..... or get rid of it!

personally i could do without it .....

Originally posted by jenzie
money is the problem
so, with every problem ..... you solve it ..... or get rid of it!

personally i could do without it .....


Before money there were pelts and land etc etc someonthing of value for something else the barter system...............no matter what system you use something always has an assigned value to the culture and "pay" is in accordance with that.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Jellos has it. It is property that creates poverty. Wealth is just the modern means of regulating property.

But so long as anyone can own things, there will always be some that have much less than the average.

Obviously, you can never have people not owning things, so that's that. it is part of life.

Wow, you're agreeing with the main tennants of the financial theory of mutualism!!!
Are you becoming sympathetic toward anarchism too Ushgarak?

btw, this is the difference in mutualism-
Property=bought
possesion=earned

Of course wealth creates povetry! Had it not been for the calculation of monetarty gain, there would be no poverty. How you intend for it to be dealt with is another mater entierly!

Err... no, there would be poverty. What a strange piece of logic.

And Jello, no, because I think political anarchy is daft. I'm saying there are some things in life you just have to deal with. You can try and reduce it or cope with it but the possibility for poverty will always exist and it is not the fault of wealth, it is the fault of existence. The thread starter really means that GREED creates it, and if you can find a way to remove greed from Humans that is a. very impressive but also b. not very useful as civilisation is rather driven by it.

there is one very easy soution to these problems, just create advanced robots to do ALL the physical or time intensive labour in the world, like planting. growin and harvesting crops, mining, getting raw materials, creating items for use, driving cars. makin luxury items, taking care of the old, rescuing, transporting, filing, recording etc. then all any huma will have to do is sit at home and get all the products they want, there would be no need for money as ull get everythin u want without payin any taxes, u wont have to do any work n u can spend ur time on liesure activites or on research of ur own choice{which the people, bored by not havin any WORK to do would gladly take up t spend time} or on givin the robot's intruction, no1 will be allowed to acquire resources or subordinate HUMANS, because THAT is what makes people POWERFUL{rich in other words in these days} n im NOT fantasizin here, its POSSIBLE to end most of the world's problems like this, i we could make loads of advances robots having high intelligence{not self aware} in the field they were in, then wed have nuthin to wory about, there would be enough resources for any1 to get most conforts of life{remember that its not the comforts that make the problem but the POWER n no1 will be allowed to be more powerful than any1 else} without bein better than any1 else around em. the world would reach a balance n then mankin could enhance its own knowledge, take up philosophy, spen all the time in the world on liesure without worrying or working n have a peace of mind unknown to almost any1 now. sigh................wish it cud happen in my lifetime.

And I wish it was realy true that a society not powered by greed would be as scientifically productive as one without.

But it wouldn't be.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
GREED creates it
i have to agree
those who are generous as well as wealthy only serve to combat poverty through charity, creating jobs, and stimulating the market...a.k.a. not hoarding like petty tight asses...a.k.a. leeches on society.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
there is one very easy soution to these problems, just create advanced robots to do ALL the physical or time intensive labour in the world...

not a good idea. ever read 'dune' ?

Originally posted by PVS
not a good idea. ever read 'dune' ?


i already said, SMART but NOT self aware.

I've never read dune... I've heard its very good but never got round to it.. but what was your point PVS??

As far as advanced robots go... Please enlighten us as to how this could be done.. If it was possible don't you think they would of done it?? while it might be possible in the future.. i don't think it is now... and even then its something that only the wealthy elite could aford... while your at it why don't you create a never ending source of food and a time machine to fix past errors..

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i already said, SMART but NOT self aware.

how can you dictate that? if one machine were to become self aware, chances are there would be countless other identical machines which would follow.

:edit: also, in dune it wasnt the machines which enslaved the human race, but rather evil men who used the machines as soldiers/slave masters.

would that not be a case of bad programming then??? If it was me I would create its most basic of rules to be "only do what I tell you to do, never act on your own"... breaking this rule would cause the robot to shutdown/delete its prog...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
"only do what I tell you to do, never act on your own".

i edited my post. check again

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I've never read dune... I've heard its very good but never got round to it.. but what was your point PVS??

As far as advanced robots go... Please enlighten us as to how this could be done.. If it was possible don't you think they would of done it?? while it might be possible in the future.. i don't think it is now... and even then its something that only the wealthy elite could aford... while your at it why don't you create a never ending source of food and a time machine to fix past errors..




its a long ass explanation but ill summarize. the NATIONS of the world should build machine, not individuals, because if individuals build em theyd have POWER, n POWER is what needs to be eliminated frmo the world. think of it like this, the PERFECT sort of communism, NO1 has power. the reason why communism failed is because it cudnt control people gettin too much power and cudt SUPPLY its people with resources in return for their submission of personal power. robots will take care of the resources, every1 wud be equal and every1 will have all the pleasures of life TOO.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the PERFECT sort of communism,

impossible.

Originally posted by PVS
how can you dictate that? if one machine were to become self aware, chances are there would be countless other identical machines which would follow.

:edit: also, in dune it wasnt the machines which enslaved the human race, but rather evil men who used the machines as soldiers/slave masters.


u can if u make many small machines to do small {processing wise} jobs, they WUDNT be able to become self aware.

Originally posted by PVS
impossible.


thas what u think.

Originally posted by PVS
i edited my post. check again

Secondary line of programming... "Never kill a human"

Sure theres always going to be some bad apples that will try to pollute the world... It would be the job of the robot police to detain them...

While robots might be a nice dream... What if arguments are a bit tedious.. If we created a robot whos only fuction was to plant trees to produce wood... Could he be turned against us?
or perhaps one thats only job was to produce wheat....
there AI wouldn't have to be overly complex as it would just have to run a set lot of tasks.. With very little human input...

This is all dodging the issue. Robots are like machines, and machines have done nothing to change economics.

Why? Because SOMEONE has to own them. You still end up with limited resources in the world, yet people have unlimited wants. This is the base principle of economics, and so there will be competition for those resources, and greed involved to gt as much as possible, and people will lose out.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
thas what u think.

thats what i KNOW.
so long as evil exists, there will never be utopia. E.V.E.R.
communism only serves as a springboard for evil men to gain
absolute power.

never gonna happen.

the people in control dont want a happy loving free society. they want everyone one controlled and subdued. there should be many ways too create a happy world, those pricks making trillions are selfish and only by creating chaoos can they make there money. they dont want to help, and we help them by doing nothing.

why is the world run this way? woudnt the world be a better place if we..WHOA stop right there.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is all dodging the issue. Robots are like machines, and machines have done nothing to change economics.

Why? Because SOMEONE has to own them. You still end up with limited resources in the world, yet people have unlimited wants. This is the base principle of economics, and so there will be competition for those resources, and greed involved to gt as much as possible, and people will lose out.

its NOT dodging the issue its takin it head on, im not just some kid with a wild theory i have thought about it for years n years, economically, socially, psychologically n well in every way, ive thought about it, n im only writin the gist of what i believe, i cud write a damn book if i were to completely explain, my idea, its reprecussion, the problems facing it n how ot deal with them, the route of those problems, the problems that plague mankind n how robots SHOULD be used to deal with them n the ways to prevent the unjust use of these machenical resources.


n yea, i already said that the GOVERNMENT will own them. {ideally a universal government with no countries etc} no man will be ALLOWED to own them as that gives individuals power n power is what we are tryin to destroy{that power translates to owning money and resources in the world which makes the wrest of the world POOR which was the reason for this thread}

Originally posted by PVS
thats what i KNOW.
so long as evil exists, there will never be utopia. E.V.E.R.
communism only serves as a springboard for evil men to gain
absolute power.

never gonna happen.


there are ways to get around that, u only believe that there will never be a utopia because there never has been n no1 has been able to tackle the problems leadin to it, plus the idea of evil always existin is romantic and likeable. evil might exist but if its given no hands{tools n power} it can do nuthing.

Bottom line is that poverty is necessary for a society to thrive.
Taking sociology classes has enlightened me to that realization.
A society cannot flourish without having an oppressed class who is willing to do the dirty work necessary to live. We cannot all be Rockefellers.
Now the question is can the degree of poverty be gauged and minimalized?Just because a person is terminally ill, alleviating their suffering should still be a priority

Originally posted by LordFear
Bottom line is that poverty is necessary for a society to thrive.
Taking sociology classes has enlightened me to that realization.
A society cannot flourish without having an oppressed class who is willing to do the dirty work necessary to live. We cannot all be Rockefellers.
Now the question is can the degree of poverty be gauged and minimalized?Just because a person is terminally ill, alleviating their suffering should still be a priority

n THAS why robots are good, they can do ALL the dirty work n do it much much better n efficiently than humans, with them doin it every1 wud be rich as there wud be enough resources for every1.

Well now a whole issue of morality and ethics comes into play.
Long has man attempted to understand God's creations and duplicate them. We humans suffer from a God complex and creating robots in our image is a testament to that fact. If anybody has ever seen I, Robot with Will Smith, and even Matrix, you will understand.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
evil might exist but if its given no hands{tools n power} it can do nuthing.

rhetorical nonesense.
there's what you wish for, and there is what is.
there has never been a single socialist society that hasnt
paved the way for an IMMEDIATE dictatorship. history vs. your
overly wishful and naive rhetoric (which btw was the exact thinking
behind the formation of every communist dictatorship).
which shall we trust?

here's a bit of all too true rhetoric in return:
the road to hell is paved with good intentions

Originally posted by PVS
rhetorical nonesense.
there's what you wish for, and there is what is.
there has never been a single socialist society that hasnt
paved the way for an IMMEDIATE dictatorship. history vs. your
overly wishful and naive rhetoric (which btw was the exact thinking
behind the formation of every communist dictatorship).
which shall we trust?

here's a bit of all too true rhetoric in return:
the road to hell is paved with good intentions


first and foremost, tell me sumthing. what is the road to HEAVEN paved by? would u rather have bad intentions n hope for the best or have good intentions n TRY ur level best to point the road to heaven as opposed to hell. the REASON why good intentions have failed in the past is because the people did not understand the problems facing the populace that the decisions based on good intentions affected. in other words the people that made those decisions were STUPID n didnt know enough. my thinking may be wishful but atleast its a start, many wudv said that the thinkin of americans before america was born was wishful, tryin to get a land of freedom of speech, action, thought, relegion n watnot, but they did, n now even though theyr not perfect they still have kept those qualities to a much MUCH greater extent than MOSY of the world. some might have said it was wishful to create nuclear energy n destroy matter but they did it. n the REASON why communism has always led to dictatorship is because SUM1 had power while no1 else did{that sum1 that SHUD NOT HAVE HAD POWER] also communism requires an obedient workforce who works like animals n gets little in return THAS ALSO a huge reason for its failure as people became unhappy, {btw the concept of communism means that NO1 shud have power and obviously when only one perso has all the power, hes gonna use it} IF u had robots there would be no NEED for this labour/work force,everyone would get a LOT even when they did nuthin in return, n NO1 would be allowed to have POWER{not even one person} therefore no1 would be able to dictat ANYTHING, n robots camn make that happen, it is with humans that u have loopholes which dictators can take advantage of n come to power.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
first and foremost, tell me sumthing. what is the road to HEAVEN paved by? would u rather have bad intentions n hope for the best or have good intentions n TRY ur level best to point the road to heaven as opposed to hell. the REASON why good intentions have failed in the past is because the people did not understand the problems facing the populace that the decisions based on good intentions affected. in other words the people that made those decisions were STUPID n didnt know enough. my thinking may be wishful but atleast its a start, many wudv said that the thinkin of americans before america was born was wishful, tryin to get a land of freedom of speech, action, thought, relegion n watnot, but they did, n now even though theyr not perfect they still have kept those qualities to a much MUCH greater extent than MOSY of the world. some might have said it was wishful to create nuclear energy n destroy matter but they did it. n the REASON why communism has always led to dictatorship is because SUM1 had power while no1 else did{that sum1 that SHUD NOT HAVE HAD POWER] also communism requires an obedient workforce who works like animals n gets little in return THAS ALSO a huge reason for its failure as people became unhappy, {btw the concept of communism means that NO1 shud have power and obviously when only one perso has all the power, hes gonna use it} IF u had robots there would be no NEED for this labour/work force,everyone would get a LOT even when they did nuthin in return, n NO1 would be allowed to have POWER{not even one person} therefore no1 would be able to dictat ANYTHING, n robots camn make that happen, it is with humans that u have loopholes which dictators can take advantage of n come to power.

use proper pauses, spellcheck, and group this into appropriate paragraphs and i promise i'll read it.
honestly, im not trying to break your balls, but thats just obnoxiously difficult to read. the whole teen speak thing doesnt help either. u-no?

we're paving the road to hell with bad intentions

you're paving the road to annoyance with bad attention.

first and foremost, tell me something. what is the road to HEAVEN paved by? would u rather have bad intentions and hope for the best or have good intentions and TRY ur level best to point the road to heaven as opposed to hell. the REASON why good intentions have failed in the past is because the people did not understand the problems facing the populace that the decisions based on good intentions affected. in other words the people that made those decisions were STUPID and didnt know enough. my thinking may be wishful but atleast its a start, many would have said that the thinking of americans before america was born was wishful, trying to get a land of freedom of speech, action, thought, relegion and whatnot, but they did, and now even though they are not perfect they still have kept those qualities to a much MUCH greater extent than MOST of the world. some might have said it was wishful to create nuclear energy and destroy matter but they did it. and the REASON why communism has always led to dictatorship is because SOME ONE had power while no ONE else did{that sum1 that SHUD NOT HAVE HAD POWER] also communism requires an obedient workforce who works like animals and gets little in return THATS ALSO a huge reason for its failure as people became unhappy, {btw the concept of communism means that NO ONE shud have power and obviously when only one Pearson has all the power, hes gonna use it n thats where tyrrany comes from} IF YOU had robots there would be no NEED for this labour/work force,everyone would get a LOT even when they did nuthing in return, and NO ONE would be allowed to have POWER{not even one person} therefore no one would be able to dictate ANYTHING, and robots can make that happen, it is with humans that you have loopholes which dictators can take advantage of and come to power.

OMG Syntax genocide...!!! *Won't someone think of the children*

the meaning of the phrase is simple lionheart.
drastic action with poor planning and unrealistic anticipation of events
can lead a society out of the proverbial pot and into the fire.

the requirement of a socialist society is unconditional trust for government.
by weaving words into beautiful poetry idealist have managed to convince people that it was possible. "all we need to do is make sure that a. b. and c. does not happen, and we must blah blah blah" then comes the revolution and then comes reality. reality is dictatorship. reality is a bullethole in the back of your skull because you spoke your mind, or offended the power that you put all your trust in, or maybe you just decided to have a hit of opium and got caught.

reality is slave labor, breaking your back to an early death working to stuff the pockets of the leaders you put all your trust in, because of the beautiful words of some idealistic poet who made so much sense way back when.

utopia is an illusion. a pipe dream which is history's most
powerful tool in controlling an entire population in practically no time at all.
give them a dream of perfection and they will submit their very lives and every freedom, so long as they are convinced that its necessary to achieve their goal, if not for them, for their childrens childrens children.
a carrot on a stick if you will.

Nothing measured is good. Accuracy is good. No math? Yes. How? Image resemblance. Money=bad idea.

Down with commies

Originally posted by redcaped
Nothing measured is good. Accuracy is good. No math? Yes. How? Image resemblance. Money=bad idea.

So what are you talking about ? Bartering ? I give you 40 camels if I understand that.

Alright. Credit is more formal but still depends on money. Why not a bar that increases according to our results and decreases to our expenses, very accurate and it's not money/banks/accounts.

you speak in tone poems

I would speak better if paid.