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Okay...I'm pretty sure I did the Search function correctly (Advanced Search, Advanced Options, etc), and I was pretty darn sooprised that this (apparently) hasn't been done.

I thought of this reading the new Amazo Respect thread and was impressed with how he handled the JLA with the powers of 14 members.

It reminded me of how DoS Doomsday virtually cake-walked through his story's version of the JLA.

So: who takes this? 14-power Amazo versus...
1. DoS Doomsday
2. Most powerful version of Doomsday

(Off-the-cuff: I say Amazo wins #1, but Doomsday wins #2).

Actually, Amazo beat 35 members of the JLA.

Once the reinforcements showed up (the 35), he began adding to the 14 powers he already had.


So Amazo had more than 14 powers.




But I'd give Amazo the edge in both battles.

Amazo wins, just as powerful with more to his advantage.

Hunter Prey Doomsday stalemates him. He's basically the living Embodiment of Evolution. I bet hed eventually eveolve past AMAZO's ability to copy powers.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Hunter Prey Doomsday stalemates him. He's basically the living Embodiment of Evolution. I bet hed eventually eveolve past AMAZO's ability to copy powers.

How can you evolve past something like that?

Amazo wins

Originally posted by juggernaut66666

How can you evolve past something like that?

Who knows ?

How does God lift a UN lift able mountain ? Logic doesn't really apply when you can bend the laws of Entropy. Just an IMO though.

Amazo wins.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Hunter Prey Doomsday stalemates him. He's basically the living Embodiment of Evolution. I bet hed eventually eveolve past AMAZO's ability to copy powers.

Amazo copies power via dupicating cells at a subatomic level. There is no way to evolve past that ability. In addition Amazo has other abilities.

Originally posted by dvampire
Amazo wins.

Mate I've been having a look at the Superman respect thread recently, and you seem to know you're Stuff, a LOT. I was wondering if you solve his Energy Crisis problem mentioned in this thread ?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/445133_1-supermans-post-crisis-energy-crisis

I think it was you who mentioned that he taps into a separate unlimited source energy that isn't Solar energy. Do you have any scans supporting this.

Thanks.

Amazo takes it both times.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
There is no way to evolve past that ability. In addition Amazo has other abilities.

Who to say there isn't. As it was stated through out Hunter prey and the Doomsday Annual, Doomsday was a force of Nature who had the power of evolution on his side. Just because AMAZO can copy his cells is there anyway to vouch that he would be a living embodiment of Evolution that works beyond the subatomic level IN COMICS. Just a theory though, please dont go mental at me, if you dont agree. And even if he does coppy it, the two will continue evolving until the end of time. Leading to a stalemate.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Who to say there isn't. As it was stated through out Hunter prey and the Doomsday Annual, Doomsday was a force of Nature who had the power of evolution on his side. Just because AMAZO can copy his cells is there anyway to vouch that he would be a living embodiment of Evolution that works beyond the subatomic level IN COMICS. Just a theory though, please dont go mental at me, if you dont agree. And even if he does coppy it, the two will continue evolving until the end of time. Leading to a stalemate.


Amazo starts off at a higher level.

What stops him from copying DD's evolution ability?

Does Doomsday even have "bio - energy"?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Amazo starts off at a higher level.

What stops him from copying DD's evolution ability?

If he copies the two will contiune evolving to counter each others abilities for the rest of eternity causing a Stalemate.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Who to say there isn't. As it was stated through out Hunter prey and the Doomsday Annual, Doomsday was a force of Nature who had the power of evolution on his side. Just because AMAZO can copy his cells is there anyway to vouch that he would be a living embodiment of Evolution that works beyond the subatomic level IN COMICS. Just a theory though, please dont go mental at me, if you dont agree. And even if he does coppy it, the two will continue evolving until the end of time. Leading to a stalemate.



That was exactly my point. Comics or not, even if DD could evolve "beyond" Amazo in any way, How can you argue that Amazo couldnt match that evolution too. You cant.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
If he copies the two will contiune evolving to counter each others abilities for the rest of eternity causing a Stalemate.

And I'm not entirely sure he'll be able to copy his abilities as they may transcend reality. But thats just a theory of mine.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
That was exactly my point. Comics or not, even if DD could evolve "beyond" Amazo in any way, How can you argue that Amazo couldnt match that evolution too.



You're right = a Stalemate.

But i have a theory; that Doomsday's evolution powers may transcend reality preventing Amazo from being able to copy his abilities. But thats just a theory of mine.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
If he copies the two will contiune evolving to counter each others abilities for the rest of eternity causing a Stalemate.

I disagree.

Amazo starts off higher than DD is every area. He then copies DD's evolution ability. As fast as DD can evolve Amazo will always be two steps ahead.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I disagree.

Amazo starts off higher than DD is every area. He then copies DD's evolution ability. As fast as DD can evolve Amazo will always be two steps ahead.

Well i disagree, but I'd have to get 'philosophical on you to try and dissuade you, which i wont.

Amazo takes the first if this isn't a fight to the death then the takes it in both scenarios, Amazon will definetly be capable of defeating him the first time, no problems there but the second I am not sure, Isn't it said that when Doomsday have been killed once that being cannot kill him again? but of cause Amazon can always knock him out.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Mate I've been having a look at the Superman respect thread recently, and you seem to know you're Stuff, a LOT. I was wondering if you solve his Energy Crisis problem mentioned in this thread ?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/445133_1-supermans-post-crisis-energy-crisis

Thanks.

Suspension of disbelief

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
If he copies the two will contiune evolving to counter each others abilities for the rest of eternity causing a Stalemate. I disagree.


Amazo starts out at much greater levels then DD.

And IF DD proved to be any sort of challenge to him, Amazo would simply copy DD's every ability, (which includes his adaptive qualities).


This means Amazo will always be ahead of DD no matter what way you look at it.



Amazo wins both battles IMO.

Originally posted by Galan007
I disagree.


Amazo starts out at much greater levels then DD.

And IF DD proved to be any sort of challenge to him, Amazo would simply copy DD's every ability, (which includes his adaptive qualities).


This means Amazo will always be ahead of DD no matter what way you look at it.



Amazo wins both battles IMO.
Especially because Amazo would be able to control DD's adaptive powers not like DD who only uses it like a "reflex".

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Especially because Amazo would be able to control DD's adaptive powers not like DD who only uses it like a "reflex". This is true.

Originally posted by Galan007
I disagree.


Amazo starts out at much greater levels then DD.

And IF DD proved to be any sort of challenge to him, Amazo would simply copy DD's every ability, (which includes his adaptive qualities).


This means Amazo will always be ahead of DD no matter what way you look at it.



Amazo wins both battles IMO.

Its a case of Immovable object vs Unstoppable force. Especially when both characters are depicted at the height of their abilities. But thats just my opinion.

Originally posted by dawsey28
Suspension of disbelief

Sorry I dont understand.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Sorry I dont understand.

He means it's a comic, it doesn't have to make sense, get over it.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Its a case of Immovable object vs Unstoppable force. Especially when both characters are depicted at the height of their abilities. But thats just my opinion.

Plus i have a theory; that Doomsday's evolution powers may transcend reality, preventing Amazo from being able to copy his abilities.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He means it's a comic, it doesn't have to make sense, get over it.

Thats a bit harsh.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Plus i have a theory; that Doomsday's evolution powers may transcend reality, preventing Amazo from being able to copy his abilities.

I'll say this in the most respectful way possible.

Thats a really stupid theory.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'll say this in the most respectful way possible.

Thats a really stupid theory.

Why is it a Stupid theory ?

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Why is it a Stupid theory ?

DD has never show the ability or even hinted at the ability to transend reality.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Sorry I dont understand.

Dictionary.com

suspension of disbelief

Definition: a willingness to suspend one's critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment

I promise that I wasn't trying to be a jerk, though.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
DD has never show the ability or even hinted at the ability to transend reality.

Are you familiar with William Paley's concept of the pocket watch, my friend ?

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Are you familiar with William Paley's concept of the pocket watch, my friend ?

I don't follow.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't follow.

Dont worry ill get to my point.

Are you familliar with Paleys arguement ?

Here's a link if you are not ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Paley

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Dont worry ill get to my point.

Are you familliar with Paleys arguement ?

Here's a link if you are not ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Paley

OK so it seems to be an argument against evolution . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
OK so it seems to be an argument against evolution . . .

No quite my friend, but I'm quite impressed you deciphered that much from that source. William Paley used the idea of evolution to prove the existence of God. He states that Evolution is Gods tool in developing the universe.

Next question, Do you believe that the Presence (God) created the D.C. universe ?

Why do people try to use concepts devoloped in the real world, to try and make an argument where comic books are concerned?

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
No quite my friend, but I'm quite impressed you deciphered that much from that source. William Paley used the idea of evolution to prove the existence of God. He states that Evolution is Gods tool in developing the universe.

Next question, Do you believe that the Presence (God) created the D.C. universe ?



No. I am of the opinion that the Presence is the sum total of DC's reality.

Originally posted by Galan007
Why do people try to use concepts devoloped in the real world, to try and make an argument where comic books are concerned?

I haven't the foggiest.

Originally posted by Galan007
Why do people try to use concepts devoloped in the real world, to try and make an argument where comic books are concerned?

Because Comic writers do, for exampl this one is taken from the Christian Juedo perspective of God.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No. I am of the opinion that the Presence is the sum total of DC's reality.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Who to say there isn't. As it was stated through out Hunter prey and the Doomsday Annual, Doomsday was a force of Nature who had the power of evolution on his side. Just because AMAZO can copy his cells is there anyway to vouch that he would be a living embodiment of Evolution that works beyond the subatomic level IN COMICS. Just a theory though, please dont go mental at me, if you dont agree. And even if he does coppy it, the two will continue evolving until the end of time. Leading to a stalemate.



That was exactly my point. Comics or not, even if DD could evolve "beyond" Amazo in any way, How can you argue that Amazo couldnt match that evolution too.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
That was exactly my point. Comics or not, even if DD could evolve "beyond" Amazo in any way, How can you argue that Amazo couldnt match that evolution too.



I cant, but I do have a theory. See the last three pages to see what that is.

Well look at it this way.

Both adapt.

Doomsday adaption is reactionary.
Amazo's is at will and everpresent.
As a result, Amazon has the advantage in a fight because any power advantages DD has will be absorbed by Amazo, and Amazo has others too that DD doesn't.

DD <<< Amazo. Amazo will always be a step ahead. DD can't level the playing ground. ever.

Add to that the intelligence/knowlege advantage of Amazo and this should be a wash.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Because Comic writers do, for exampl this one is taken from the Christian Juedo perspective of God. I understand that comic writers do sometimes use real-world concepts/facts to base their material off of...

But comics in no way follow real-world laws.



This is why comics can't be broken down by "real-world theories"....... It just doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Galan007
I understand that comic writers do sometimes use real-world concepts/facts to base their material off of...

But comics in no way follow real-world laws.



This is why comics can't be broken down by "real-world theories"....... It just doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit offensive but you seem like a bit of a Bigot saying this ....

'This is why comics can't be broken down by "real-world theories"....... It just doesn't work that way.'

Anyway, do you not think the presence had a role in the Evolution of the D.C. universe.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
I'm sorry if this sounds a bit offensive but you seem like a bit of a Bigot saying this ....

'This is why comics can't be broken down by "real-world theories"....... It just doesn't work that way.'

Anyway, do you not think the presence had a role in the Evolution of the D.C. universe. Bigot?

Because I say it's faulty logic to go by real-world concepts over what the character actually did on panel?

If I'm a "bigot" for that, then I'll take it as a compliment.




And which Presence are you talking about?

The one in comics, or the real-world "God"?

Originally posted by Galan007
Bigot?

Because I say it's faulty logic to go by real-world concepts over what the character actually did on panel?

If I'm a "bigot" for that, then I'll take it as a compliment.




And which Presence are you talking about?

The one in comics, or the real-world "God"?

Well this is a comicbook forum.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Well this is a comicbook forum. Exactly!


I had to ask though, because you just brought up ideas from the real-world, so I couldn't be sure.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly!


I had to ask though, because you just brought up ideas from the real-world, so I couldn't be sure.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch


Anyway, do you not think the presence had a role in the Evolution of the D.C. universe.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Anyway, do you not think the presence had a role in the Evolution of the D.C. universe. Since the Presence is supposed to be the sum total of ALL DC comics, just like TOAA is supposed to be the sum total of ALL Marvel comics....... Sure.

Originally posted by Galan007
Since the Presence is supposed to be the sum total of ALL DC comics, just like TOAA is supposed to be the sum total of ALL Marvel comics....... Sure.

So you agree that evolution is a transecdual force ?

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
So you agree that evolution is a transecdual force ? Meaning?

Originally posted by Galan007
Meaning?

Meaning that Doomsday power exists beyond reality, and cannot be copied. As i said its just a theory, no one has to except it.

But i don't think its as stupid as someone stated earlier. Just because I'm well read and I apply logic to create a hypotenuse, doesn't mean I'm stupid.

Are some people confusing JLA Amazo and JLU Amazo?

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Meaning that Doomsday power exists beyond reality, and cannot be copied. As i said its just a theory, no one has to except it.

But i don't think its as stupid as someone stated earlier. Just because I'm well read and I apply logic to create a hypotenuse, doesn't mean I'm stupid. If that were true for Doomsday, then it would most certainly be true for the New Gods Orion and Lightray..... But Amazo absorbed their abilities nonetheless.


Keep in mind we are debating comic book characters.

Even if a character can "transcend reality", (which I have never seen DD do), it doesn't necessarily make them immune to absorption in comics.


Again, it's not a stupid theory....... It's just a real-world theory.


Real-world concepts, and comic books seldom go hand in hand.

Originally posted by Juntai
Are some people confusing JLA Amazo and JLU Amazo? I don't think anyone has used JLU Amazo's feats in place of JLA Amazo's feats.


Why do you ask?

Originally posted by Galan007


Real-world concepts, and comic books seldom go hand in hand.

All concepts are derived from the real world in some shape or form.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think anyone has used JLU Amazo's feats in place of JLA Amazo's feats.


Why do you ask? Well, the reason he had the powers, was because the JLA had the members in it, and he had the powers of each of them.

Why would he suddenly be able to take DD's adaption power, when DD is not a member of the Justice League?

Originally posted by Juntai
Well, the reason he had the powers, was because the JLA had the members in it, and he had the powers of each of them.

Why would he suddenly be able to take DD's adaption power, when DD is not a member of the Justice League?

So his body doesn't copy powers like the animated version does ?

That would explain why they where able to kill him during the Morisson run.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
All concepts are derived from the real world in some shape or form. Right,

But most of the real-world concepts used in comics are either completely warped, or go out the window completely, if they don't agree with the story at hand.



In the real-world laws that we know of, (e.g. creating life from nothingness) cannot be achieved.


In the comic world, these "laws" are non-existant, as numerous individuals can create life from nothingness.

Originally posted by Juntai
Well, the reason he had the powers, was because the JLA had the members in it, and he had the powers of each of them.

Why would he suddenly be able to take DD's adaption power, when DD is not a member of the Justice League?

Sneaky bastich..... that is brilliant, and yes, it does raise a good question. Are we discarding that aspect of his powers as PIS or is an accepted fact for this version of Amazo?

Originally posted by Galan007
Right,

But most of the real-world concepts used in comics are either completely warped, or go out the window completely, if they don't agree with the story at hand.



In the real-world laws that we know of, (e.g. creating life from nothingness) cannot be achieved.


In the comic world, these "laws" are non-existant, as numerous individuals can create life from nothingness.


I disagree, have you ever heard of Quantum theory before ?

Originally posted by Juntai
Well, the reason he had the powers, was because the JLA had the members in it, and he had the powers of each of them.

Why would he suddenly be able to take DD's adaption power, when DD is not a member of the Justice League? Are you saying that Amazo can only take on the attributes of people in the JLA?


Because I have seen him absorb the traits from normal beings who have nothing to do with the JLA.


The whole "humazo" incident was a result of him taking the souls and attributes of ordinary people, in an effort to "feel".

Originally posted by Galan007
Are you saying that Amazo can only take on the attributes of people in the JLA?


Because I have seen him absorb the traits from normal beings who have nothing to do with the JLA.


The whole "humamazo" incident was a result of him taking th souls and attributes of ordinary people, in an effort to "feel". The thread creator specified a version of Amazo.
The power of the 14 JLA members.

And different incarnations of Amazo are different.

Originally posted by Juntai
The thread creator specified a version of Amazo.
The power of the 14 JLA members. What leads you to think that version of Amazo could only copy the powers of the JLA?

Originally posted by Galan007
What leads you to think that version of Amazo could only copy the powers of the JLA? Because he went powerless when Superman disbanded the JLA.

Originally posted by Galan007
What leads you to think that version of Amazo could only copy the powers of the JLA?

When Superman disbanded the JLA, their where no longer any members therefore it conflicted with his programming.

I have the issue, Junati is right ! I just didn't think it was this Amazo u where referring to !

Originally posted by Juntai
Because he went powerless when Superman disbanded the JLA. I know that.

But again, why do you think Amazo could only absorb the JLA's power?

Originally posted by Galan007
I know that.

But again, why do you think Amazo could only absorb the JLA's power?

Well why did he have no powers, when the JLA was disbanded, if he could absorb them anyway ?

See real world logic applied to a comic, it works doesn't it.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Well why did he have no powers, when the JLA was disbanded, if he could absorb them anyway ?

See real world logic applied to a comic, it works doesn't it. That's not my question,


My question once again is....

What makes you think that Amazo could ONLY absorb the powers of the JLA members, and no others?

Originally posted by Galan007
That's not my question,


My question once again is....

What makes you think that Amazo could ONLY absorb the powers of the JLA members, and no others?


Because in JLA 27 it didn't seem that he was absorbing powers it was that he had what ever powers the JLA had.

But again, why does that mean he was incapable of absorbing any other powers?

Originally posted by Galan007
But again, why does that mean he was incapable of absorbing any other powers? Same reason Batman can't blow up the moon with eye beams.
He never showed the power.
He simply had whatever the JLA had.
And when the JLA was disbanded, the story was over.

If he was able to absorb outside of that influence, he would have still been OK right?

Originally posted by Galan007
But again, why does that mean he was incapable of absorbing any other powers?

The logic being that he was limited by the members of the JLA to gain power since he should have been able to take the powers just from them even if they weren't JLA members.

They also make a big point of increasing the JLA in size.

Originally posted by Juntai
If he was able to absorb outside of that influence, he would have still been OK right? What outside influence was there besides the JLA?


Sure, we don't know if he could have absorbed anything else...... But a claim cannot be made that he was incapable of absorbing anything other then the JLA either.

Originally posted by Galan007
What outside influence was there besides the JLA?


Sure, we don't know if he could have absorbed anything else...... But a claim cannot be made that he was incapable of absorbing anything other then the JLA either.

You're backing yourself into a logical fallacy

Its not possible to prove a negative. You have to provide evidence that the AMAZO from JLA27 can absorb any power he wants.

Originally posted by Juntai
Same reason Batman can't blow up the moon with eye beams.
He never showed the power.
He simply had whatever the JLA had.
And when the JLA was disbanded, the story was over.

If he was able to absorb outside of that influence, he would have still been OK right?

In this case, DD hands down .

Oh, and I think that Amazo doesn't copy the powers at 100%, the amount of powers (or beings being copied) is what makes him faster then the flash, and he seems to be just slightly faster then Flash for example, though if he had 100% powers of all the members, like Flash, Superman, WW etc he should be at least 299% fater, he isn't, may be that he just gets 60% from the Flash, 60% from Superman, 60% from WW etc, so in the end he is still faster but not that much.

DD evolution power would be beyond this copy ability IMHO, and even if he could do it, DD would evolve after his death to the point where he would be able to beat Amazo, who in turn would be resurrected and evolved too, but can a machine evolve as much as a living being?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You're backing yourself into a logical fallacy

Its not possible to prove a negative. You have to provide evidence that the AMAZO from JLA27 can absorb any power he wants. I never said he can did I?

I simply said it's impossible to say that he could not have absorbed any other powers, because he never attempted to.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Can a machine evolve as much as a living being?

AMAZO once made himself human.

Originally posted by Galan007
I never said he can did I?

I simply said it's impossible to say that he could not have absorbed any other powers, because he never attempted to. But for the sake of the thread, he doesn't. He never showed the capacity to do so. He had the powers of the JLA, nothing more.

This just sounds too stupid so if Doomsday would be a JLA member he could copy his powers but since he is not he just can't copy it?

Originally posted by Galan007
I never said he can did I?

I simply said it's impossible to say that he could not have absorbed any other powers, because he never attempted to.



There were 35 people around him at the time. Why in gods name wouldn't he want those powers since they were about to beat him senseless?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
This just sounds too stupid so if Doomsday would be a JLA member he could copy his powers but since he is not he just can't copy it?

This isn't AMAZO in general, who apparently can do that, this is the one from JLA#27 who lost all his powers the moment the JLA was disbanded.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You're backing yourself into a logical fallacy

Its not possible to prove a negative. You have to provide evidence that the AMAZO from JLA27 can absorb any power he wants. j

1-Amazo
2-Doomsday
I like this train of thought, the thread starter makes the rules,and i see no problem with that, i hate when certain characters are put in a situation that does not fall in their favor but hey it happens.

Whats with the quick jabs at New members? i think Donkey Punch has alot to contribute to the boards,in my mind i would not be a fair debator if i did not have an open mind,which can be swayed by logic and comon sense even real life logic,hey i even look to the roleplaying systems from each decade from both systems when i get the chance

Originally posted by Juntai
But for the sake of the thread, he doesn't. He never showed the capacity to do so. He had the powers of the JLA, nothing more. Fair enough...

But,

If this is the Amazo that did in fact beat 35 JLA members, he most certainly takes this.... Because when he beat the 35 members, he had more than 14 powers.

And even if Amazo couldn't absorb DD's power, (which is impossible to say), he could still end this battle in an exponential amount of ways.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


There were 35 people around him at the time. Why in gods name wouldn't he want those powers since they were about to beat him senseless? Umm, when the JLA backups showed up, Amazo DID start to absorb their powers...... (i.e. Firestorm and Black Lightning)

Originally posted by starlock
j

1-Amazo
2-Doomsday
I like this train of thought, the thread starter makes the rules,and i see no problem with that, i hate when certain characters are put in a situation that does not fall in their favor but hey it happens.

Whats with the quick jabs at New members? i think Donkey Punch has alot to contribute to the boards,in my mind i would not be a fair debator if i did not have an open mind,which can be swayed by logic and comon sense even real life logic,hey i even look to the roleplaying systems from each decade from both systems when i get the chance

Why did you quote me to say that?

Originally posted by Galan007
Umm, when the JLA backups showed up, Amazo DID start to absorb their powers...... (i.e. Firestorm and Black Lightning)

As they arrived they stated that "Did you hear the news the JLA hust tripled in size".

He got their powers because they were drafted into the JLA.

Huntress also mentions that he's going to wake up with all the powers of the JLA but this is before the JLA a physically next to him

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
As they arrived they stated that "Did you hear the news the JLA hust tripled in size".

He got their powers because they were drafted into the JLA. Laughable..


In any rate, it doesn't matter in this thread.


Amazo had more than 14 powers when he beat the 35 JLA'ers..



He still would beat DD, even if absorption wasn't allowed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Laughable..

You're just mad 'cause you're losing

Originally posted by Galan007
He still would beat DD, even if absorption wasn't allowed.

I agree the powers of 14 JLAers is enough to beat DD

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You're just mad 'cause you're losing There's no proof that Amazo could not have absorbed those beings if they wouldn't have been in the JLA.

Just because they showed up to the fight as members, doesn't mean they couldn't have been previously absorbed.






Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I agree the powers of 14 JLAers is enough to beat DD

Originally posted by Galan007
I never said he can did I?

I simply said it's impossible to say that he could not have absorbed any other powers, because he never attempted to.

So why the hell didn't he. Its seems a bit retarded that he lost for know reason, which is what you are implying.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
So why the hell didn't he. Its seems a bit retarded that he lost for know reason, which is what you are implying. Originally posted by Galan007
In any rate, it doesn't matter in this thread.


Amazo had more than 14 powers when he beat the 35 JLA'ers..



He still would beat DD, even if absorption wasn't allowed.

Originally posted by Galan007
There's no proof that Amazo could not have absorbed those beings if they wouldn't have been in the JLA.

Just because they showed up to the fight as members, doesn't mean they couldn't have been previously absorbed.





I have the upper hand this time (I found the issue)

Superman disbands the JLA and AMAZO falls down. The first statement on the next page is "Take away the fuel and the fire goes out".

The implication of the issue and evidence within the issue points to that version of AMAZO only being able to mimic JLAers

Originally posted by starlock


Whats with the quick jabs at New members? i think Donkey Punch has alot to contribute to the boards,in my mind i would not be a fair debator if i did not have an open mind,which can be swayed by logic and comon sense even real life logic,hey i even look to the roleplaying systems from each decade from both systems when i get the chance



Cheers mate, I totally agree, and you seem like a clever guy. I think Galan has a point that you cant use the laws of the real world to justify ones arguments in comics, but he's taken it to an absolute extreme. You cant expect everything comics to be absolutely stated by the Author. It would make comics awe fully boring. There definitely some room for interpretation in comics. And what else do we have to base our interpretations other than real world logic ?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I have the upper hand this time (I found the issue)

Superman disbands the JLA and AMAZO falls down. The first statement on the next page is "Take away the fuel and the fire goes out".

The implication of the issue and evidence within the issue points to that version of AMAZO only being able to mimic JLAers That statement wouldn't lead me to that conclusion...


Your saying that if DD would have been fighting in that very same battle, Amazo wouldn't have been able to absorb his power.... But the moment someone said "hey DD you're now part of the JLA", Amazo could have absorbed his powers then?


Absloutely ridiculous. Even if that's true, it's sickening.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch


Cheers mate, I totally agree, and you seem like a clever guy. I think Galan has a point that you cant use the laws of the real world to justify ones arguments in comics, but he's taken it to an absolute extreme. You cant expect everything comics to be absolutely stated by the Author. It would make comics awe fully boring. There definitely some room for interpretation in comics. And what else do we have to base our interpretations other than real world logic ?

There's nothing explicitly wrong with applying real world logic to comics but for it to have any validity you need evidence from in the comic to back it up.

Originally posted by Galan007


Hunter Prey Doomsday survived onslaughts from beings far more powerful than the entire Justice League Roster. Wave-rider and the Guardians of the Universe could easily take the JLA. The only thing capable of killing Hunter Prey Doomsday was the end of the universe.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
I think Galan has a point that you cant use the laws of the real world to justify ones arguments in comics, but he's taken it to an absolute extreme.. What exactly have I taken to the "absolute extreme"?

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
You cant expect everything comics to be absolutely stated by the Author. When did I say it had to be?


I simply said that real-world concepts, more times than not, don't apply in comics.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There's nothing explicitly wrong with applying real world logic to comics but for it to have any validity you need evidence from in the comic to back it up.

There are points in Hunter prey when Doomsdays evolutionary powers defy all logic. thuis mayed me assume some greater force was at work. Sorry it was just a theory.

Originally posted by Galan007
That statement wouldn't lead me to that conclusion...


Your saying that if DD would have been fighting in that very same battle, Amazo wouldn't have been able to absorb his power.... But the moment someone said "hey DD you're now part of the JLA", Amazo could have absorbed his powers then?


Absloutely ridiculous. Even if that's true, it's sickening.

Thats the way I read the issue. So yes if somebody had been stupid enough to have drafed Doomsday or Darksied into the JLA it seems like AMAZO would have suddenly gained thier powers.

And yes it is sickening.

Originally posted by Galan007
That statement wouldn't lead me to that conclusion...


Your saying that if DD would have been fighting in that very same battle, Amazo wouldn't have been able to absorb his power.... But the moment someone said "hey DD you're now part of the JLA", Amazo could have absorbed his powers then?


Absloutely ridiculous. Even if that's true, it's sickening.


Yes that is what he is saying, how else do you defeat a unbeatable character. And I think Morison is one of the greatest writers around, and he's created an absolutely plausible ending to good story. IMO its far better than the writing that suggests there are several levels of infinity, and that there are more than one omni verse, which definition are intrinsically wrong.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Yes that is what he is saying, how else do you defeat a unbeatable character. And I think Morison is one of the greatest writers around, and he's created an absolutely plausible ending to good story.Morrison is a great writer, but the concept in that particular story = shit

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
IMO its far better than the writing that suggests there are several levels of infinity, and that there are more than one omni verse, which definition are intrinsically wrong. I'll agree with that for sure.

Originally posted by Galan007
:

When did I say it had to be?




You wanted an on panel statement that showed AMAZO's inability to absorb non league members powers, and you weren't willing to accept the applicable logic that me, Januti and Symmetric where assuming.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
You wanted an on panel statement that showed AMAZO's inability to absorb non league members powers, and you weren't willing to accept the applicable logic that me, Januti and Symmetric where assuming. I did accept it, I simply replied with,

"it's impossible to say either way".

Originally posted by Galan007

I'll agree with that for sure.

Really, i've heard a lot of people on here say otherwise.

If the Justice League had changed their name to Avengers, would Amazo have similarly been defeated?

Originally posted by masterbruce
If the Justice League had changed their name to Avengers, would Amazo have similarly been defeated? According to the premise of that story......... Yes.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Really, i've heard a lot of people on here say otherwise. The concept of more than 1 infinity has been established in Marvel comics, but that doesn't make it not ridiculous.

Sorry Symmetric Chaos, i was very impressed with your statment and i quoted you,then had a thought that i started typing, i appologize for not addressing it...oops

Originally posted by Galan007
According to the premise of that story......... Yes.

whoever wrote that story and whoever okayed it for publication should both be fired.

They're insulting the intelligence of their readers.

Originally posted by masterbruce
whoever wrote that story and whoever okayed it for publication should both be fired.

They're insulting the intelligence of their readers. I agree.

Originally posted by Galan007
The concept of more than 1 infinity has been established in Marvel comics, but that doesn't make it not ridiculous.

The omniverse by definition ecompases all reality, real, fictional and transcendual.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
The omniverse by definition ecompases all reality, real, fictional and transcendual. I know this...

Yet both Marvel and DC have claimed to have their own Omniverse..


As I said before, the fact that it's been established, doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

Originally posted by Galan007
I know this...

Yet both Marvel and DC have claimed to have their own Omniverse..


As I said before, the fact that it's been established, doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

I heard Wolverine once defeated Hulk by DECAPITATING his balls off.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
I heard Wolverine once defeated Hulk by DECAPITATING his balls off. That's unfortunate.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's unfortunate.

And Impossible by definition. But i suppose its still cannon

Originally posted by masterbruce
whoever wrote that story and whoever okayed it for publication should both be fired.

They're insulting the intelligence of their readers. Mark Millar?

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
And Impossible by definition. But i suppose its still cannon Like I've said a few times now..

Even things which have been established in comics can still be borderline retarded.

Originally posted by Galan007
Like I've said a few times now..

Even things which have been established in comics can still be borderline retarded.

Thats part of what makes comics interesting.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Thats part of what makes comics interesting. Well the more than one level of infinity concept DP is talking about, is just stupid IMO.

How can something be greater than infinity?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Thats part of what makes comics interesting.

I disagree.

Originally posted by Juntai
Mark Millar?

Im pretty sure it was Grant Morisson.

Originally posted by Galan007
Well the more than one level of infinity concept DP is talking about, is just stupid IMO.

How can something be greater than infinity?

There are an infinite number of primes.
There are an infinite number of real number.

We still know that there are more real numbers than prime numbers,

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There are an infinite number of primes.
There are an infinite number of real number.

We still know that there are more real numbers than prime numbers,

If you are talikng about the real world then you are very much mistaken my friend ! Galan is indeed right !

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There are an infinite number of primes.
There are an infinite number of real number.

We still know that there are more real numbers than prime numbers, But neither of them would EVER end.

So is one set of numbers truly greater than the other?

Originally posted by Galan007
But neither of them would EVER end.

So is one set of numbers truly greater than the other?

Between any two point on the number line there are a greater number or real number (infact an infinite number of real number appear between any two point on the number line) than there are prime numbers.

Originally posted by Galan007
But neither of them would EVER end.

So is one set of numbers truly greater than the other?

No youre right. Infinity is not actually a physical number, its a concept that cannot exist. Its like suggesting that mutiplecation sign is numerically greater than the plus sign.

Infinity = Infinity..

There's no such thing as infinity + 1 (where the real world is concerned).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Between any two point on the number line there are a greater number or real number (infact an infinite number of real number appear between any two point on the number line) than there are prime numbers.

Lines cannot be infinite by definition though, they are only potential infinites. Circles on the other hand are actual Infinites. Youre concept breaks down on a circle.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Between any two point on the number line there are a greater number or real number (infact an infinite number of real number appear between any two point on the number line) than there are prime numbers. But thats the thing.

2 infinite things can't be greater then the other.


This infinity is not greater then, that infinity.

Originally posted by Galan007
But thats the thing.

2 infinite things can't be greater then the other.


This infinity is not greater then, that infinity.

mhm What ev . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
mhm What ev . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
mhm What ev . . .

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Lines cannot be infinite by definition though, they are only potential infinites. Circles on the other hand are actual Infinites. Youre concept breaks down on a circle.

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Im pretty sure it was Grant Morisson. Nope. Millar.
Though Grant did most of 1 -50 or so.

So............

Regarding the JLA's means of beating Amazo: Morrison's story ending is kinda cool, in a Twilight-Zone twist sorta way. But it can only work in that story's context. Taken outside it, it is ridiculous.

Assuming he could, regarding Amazo absorbing Doomsday's powers (and is Hunter/Prey the most powerful version? What about God Wars?): why couldn't Doomsday adapt to Amazo's power?

I mean: Doomsday is facing a being able to replicate some essence of an opponent, thus taking on the opponent's powers. This is the nature of Amazo's attack. Couldn't Doomsday evolve some kind of "bio-aura" against this, something which prevents Amazo from "reading" him, kind of how cable-TV signals can be coded against videotaping/playback? Then it's simply a matter of what Amazo already has in his arsenal, in this case, the powers of 14 JLA members. Is this enough to beat H/P DD? My impression: no.

Doomsday knows Imperiex.

Originally posted by Mindship
So............

Regarding the JLA's means of beating Amazo: Morrison's story ending is kinda cool, in a Twilight-Zone twist sorta way. But it can only work in that story's context. Taken outside it, it is ridiculous.

Assuming he could, regarding Amazo absorbing Doomsday's powers (and is Hunter/Prey the most powerful version? What about God Wars?): why couldn't Doomsday adapt to Amazo's power?

I mean: Doomsday is facing a being able to replicate some essence of an opponent, thus taking on the opponent's powers. This is the nature of Amazo's attack. Couldn't Doomsday evolve some kind of "bio-aura" against this, something which prevents Amazo from "reading" him, kind of how cable-TV signals can be coded against videotaping/playback? Then it's simply a matter of what Amazo already has in his arsenal, in this case, the powers of 14 JLA members. Is this enough to beat H/P DD? My impression: no.

I totaly agree, you seem like a very clever guy Mister Mindsip. And dont forget Doomsdays cells are the origins of all Post Crisis Kryptonians, meaning Hunter Prey doomsday had the Bio electrical aura that Superman had.

Originally posted by Mindship
Couldn't Doomsday evolve some kind of "bio-aura" against this, something which prevents Amazo from "reading" him, kind of how cable-TV signals can be coded against videotaping/playback?

Following KMC logic:

"Has he never done it before, then he can't do it" 313 dur

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Following KMC logic:

"Has he never done it before, then he can't do it" 313 dur Except Doomsday has shown the ability to adapt to almost anything...

Apocalypse has never even given us the feeling that he could ever go intangible...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
AMAZO once made himself human.

Wouldn't THAT be devolving? Why didn't he made himself Metahuman ?

Mathematically, and in the real world, one infinity CAN be larger than another.

The function y=x is unbounded, yes? The function y = x^10 is also unbounded, yes?


Evaluated at x = infinity, both are infinity, yes?

But when the two infinities are divided, you get zero. Go figure.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Wouldn't THAT be devolving? Why didn't he made himself Metahuman ? He didn't "devolve" at all.

Amazo still absorbed the Metahuman qualities of said characters, but he simply wanted to "feel"...

So he found a way to steal the humanity/souls from beings.

Originally posted by masterbruce
whoever wrote that story and whoever okayed it for publication should both be fired.

They're insulting the intelligence of their readers.

Well, Amazo is an Robot, he follows an programm, or am I worng? Ethtical or not, he is bound to it, and if it's designed to copy only the powers of JLA members, well then I think this ending is good enough .

Although this is off-topic, I feel compelled to interject my 2-cents worth on the side dish of "infinity"(and hell, this is my thread)...

Seems to me, most people tend to associate infinity with mathematics, especially some kind of linear quantity, eg, 1, 2, 3.... But this is 1 dimensional. Obviously, a "larger" infinity (say, 2D) might involve 1x1, 2x2, 3x3.... Then of course, you'd have 3D infinity (eg, 1x1x1, 2x2x2, 3x3x3...). And this can go on (4D infinity, 5D infinity), ad infinitum.

This is why when I refer to infinity in its grandest sense, I will use a qualifier, usually (following the examples above) Full-Dimensional Infinity or Absolute Infinity (which in some philosophical venues is redundant).

My only gripe with infinity is this: when people use the term "nearly infinite." IMO, that's just verbal fizz. Sounds impressive but it's really empty, void of any logical meaning.

Originally posted by Mindship
Although this is off-topic, I feel compelled to interject my 2-cents worth on the side dish of "infinity"(and hell, this is my thread)...

Seems to me, most people tend to associate infinity with mathematics, especially some kind of linear quantity, eg, 1, 2, 3.... But this is 1 dimensional. Obviously, a "larger" infinity (say, 2D) might involve 1x1, 2x2, 3x3.... Then of course, you'd have 3D infinity (eg, 1x1x1, 2x2x2, 3x3x3...). And this can go on (4D infinity, 5D infinity), ad infinitum.

This is why when I refer to infinity in its grandest sense, I will use a qualifier, usually (following the examples above) Full-Dimensional Infinity or Absolute Infinity (which in some philosophical venues is redundant).

My only gripe with infinity is this: when people use the term "nearly infinite." IMO, that's just verbal fizz. Sounds impressive but it's really empty, void of any logical meaning.

So did you just prove my thing about multiple infinities?

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Following KMC logic:

"Has he never done it before, then he can't do it" 313 dur

Its not that much of a leap of faith, when you consider he already has a Bio electrical aura providing him with much of his durability. Its already evolved beyond the Guardians and the Radiants energy attacks, and was able to counter Wave Riders chronal energy. I don't t think its that impossible.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So did you just prove my thing about multiple infinities?

No he's sating that there is no such thing. A linear line was you're example before. The problem is it will always have a beginning and and an end, therefore removing the infinity aspect from it.