Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Does anyone else think that a majority of the more flaky conspiracy theorists support and believe in really wacked out theories because it's easier to fight the fictional enemy or fictitious cause of a problem than to actually do something about it?

I believe that there are valid conspiracies out there. In a world that is consumed by greed it is almost a given. But I also believe that many conspiracy theorists use their beliefs as a crutch to both avoid the real issues in their lives and the world. It also seems that believing in some of the more outrageous theories gives themselves a distorted sense of importance or that they "know more than the sheep" making them feel that they have some sense of power, or are special, when in truth they are most likely socially inert, politically powerless, or just plain frightened of actually risking anything to make a real difference.

Any thoughts?

My latest diary entry:

Today, I realized the obvious. KharmaDog is an obvious agent of the New World Order. He recently proposed that we actually devote our truth-delving attention instead to something actually potentially productive. I have no choice but to assume that he is trying to promote a lie spread by the New World Order. Namely, work. Also, AIDS.

Ps: He may also be an alien. I swear I saw him turn green once.

I'm watching you. nonefist

I always assumed people like deano had personality disorders which is the reason they believe in such outlandish theories. Like you said because it makes them feel special, like they know some thing others don't which is a classic sign of schizophrenic tendencies.

its silly troll comments like the one above that make it a joy to be here.

the nwo theory is not outlandish at all. its happening and i feel sorry for you if you cant see it, or too cowardice to admit so here.

and to kharma's point, yes i understand what you are saying. its easier to blame people who you cant really prove are there. its a way of deflecting blame away from our own actions.

there was a thread on this on the davidicke forum.

i generally believe there is a conspiracy to control humanity and deliberatly create this new system. of course there are dis-info agents out there that tell you 95 % truth and spread the rest in lies.

david icke for example has been blamed of this. his knowledge of the banking system and the nwo is spot on, but then he says 'oh by the way, the eltie are shapeshifting lizards'. It shits on the real issues and then people wont take him seriously. But i do think he does believe in these aliens, but is it worth telling people? he could of ignored it and went to a more safer conspiracy route. but thats the choice he made. Maybe there are such reptilian E.T's, but who's gonna listen?

Also not to metion that billions of peoplehave blind faith in a god who is supposed to exist in heaven, yet when you speak scientifically about the possibilty of aliens, where reptillian or not, you get branded crazy. the hypocrisy fills the air.

Isn't the nwo supposed to be like making the world a better (americanised) place?

Originally posted by Deano
its silly troll comments like the one above that make it a joy to be here.

the nwo theory is not outlandish at all. its happening and i feel sorry for you if you cant see it, or too cowardice to admit so here.

and to kharma's point, yes i understand what you are saying. its easier to blame people who you cant really prove are there. its a way of deflecting blame away from our own actions.

there was a thread on this on the davidicke forum.

i generally believe there is a conspiracy to control humanity and deliberatly create this new system. of course there are dis-info agents out there that tell you 95 % truth and spread the rest in lies.

david icke for example has been blamed of this. his knowledge of the banking system and the nwo is spot on, but then he says 'oh by the way, the eltie are shapeshifting lizards'. It shits on the real issues and then people wont take him seriously. But i do think he does believe in these aliens, but is it worth telling people? he could of ignored it and went to a more safer conspiracy route. but thats the choice he made. Maybe there are such reptilian E.T's, but who's gonna listen?

Also not to metion that billions of peoplehave blind faith in a god who is supposed to exist in heaven, yet when you speak scientifically about the possibilty of aliens, where reptillian or not, you get branded crazy. the hypocrisy fills the air.

He should have kept his mouth shut on his belief in reptillians being amongst us.Because of that,they can use that ammunition against him when he talks about real stuff that we know for sure is going on like the NWO and yeah I hate those kinda troll comments magee makes as well just because he's too afraid to look at the truth.

Well Parker just let me know when you find the truth and maybe you wont be treated like a psychotic 12 year old holding on to some thing which makes him feel special, It's ok you can get help you know.

I just think they're crazy.

*Enters Deano*

Maybe the theorists just WANT you to believe they're using their theories as a crutch, when really at the end of the day they all fall through the secret passageways in front of their computers into a secret meeting room and use their internet posts as items of business. Crafty little devils. It's a mad house, I tell ya! A MAD HOUSE!

Anyway, getting to the point. I agree that everyone knows something's wrong with the world, but some people, rather than watching a Michael Moore movie or studying politics or society, will try to come up with an even more sinister and less detectable problem. This is because some of the main issues in today's society are caused by everyday people, such as the theorists themselves. Conspiracy theories are a way to shift the blame. Also, sometimes it becomes a matter of, "My theory has more merit than yours." "Oh yeah? How about this?"

Also, Batman, the Question, and Deus Ex have probably sent off a lot of gullible people to expose "the truth."

I just got back from Europe and learned some interesting things about
myself and European history. Besides 9/11, Kennedy Assassination, Freemasons,
Illuminati, NWO, etc., and the fact that i'm descended from Albanians/Illyrians,
why does the dark ages and the country of Khazaria,
never get mentioned in American history books?

Originally posted by Mr Parker
good post.Yeah you'll never find me defending things such as reptillains walking amongst us or aliens in a secret airbase ect,thats all just heresay where theres no hard evidence.With me,I mostly defend 9-11 and the kennedy assassination because they are the two worst tragedys of our time and they're world known facts that elements within the US government were behind all that.People need to accept that and stop living in denial about it.Thats all beeen exposed.I cant speak for Deano but myself,i post stuff about clinton because i feel its important information that needs to get out.That people need to know the REAL clinton.For one thing,the things he did in office,were STILL paying for them.

These are facts that if you knew about a scandal of his,you wind up as a mysterious dead body.Theres several documented cases of people speaking about his scandals and saying they were going to tell the world and then all of a sudden ending up dying in mysterious deaths.These are facts,not theorys.Its a scary world when the president can order an agency like the CIA to kill off people who know too much about your crimes and then nothing is done about it.If this was any of us that were connected to the dead body count that clinton is,we would be seeing a lifetime prison term.I realise that most people here wont read that thread but I know at least a couple that have an interest in it and you get a couple people interested,they hopefully tell more,get them informed,and hopefully something can change,you got to try Then why aren't you dead?

Hillary: Hang on, Bill.
Bill: What? Vince Foster must die!
Hillary: Yes, but what if some losers start selling books about how evil I am, some guy on the internet reads them and searches some more tiny stories about your stuff whilst in Arkansas (even though that wasn't mentioned til you were sworn in), they start harrassing people until they give in, and then everyone knows our secrets!
Bill: Shit, that would destroy us, like it did with Nixon!
Hillary: Yeah, what do we do?
Bill: Ermm, I don't know.

I could continue from there, but the point is made.

I'll say this for Deano: I'm generally going to disagree with him most of the time, but the majority of attempted explanations I see also come from him. As rebuttals, 90% of them amount to "you're crazy"....which may be true, but isn't a logical rebuttal to the proposed idea.

I can't speak specifically to each conspiracy, but most of the time I feel like it's just massive confirmation bias. We're programmed by evolution to seek patterns and coincidences, which happen all the time. The overwhelming number of people on the planet, multiplied by how many actions we perform daily and thoughts that race through our head (each one a possibility for a coincidence) and sheer probability ensures that even massive coincidences will happen on a regular basis.

This idea applies to both our regular lives as well as the macrocosm of the culture we live in. Anyone looking for patterns will find many of them. And for someone as credulous as most conspiracy theorists, these patterns and coincidences will seem irrefutable, when in fact they are anything but.

Someone made a thread in the OTF about Washington DC being specifically engineered for some nefarious symbolic purpose. There were diagrams, articles, maps, etc. etc. All very impressive looking, and it located an absurd number of patterns. A few were intrigued by it. But then I read through it, and it was obvious that nearly every "coincidence" was simply an arbitrary selection of landmarks, dates, whatever, in order to strengthen the argument. In other words, it was complete crap.

And if you look at most conspiracy threads, it's the same thing. Hand picking evidence from amongst a much (much) larger potential drawing pool that seems to suggest various links between people or organizations. You can do it for any agenda, given enough time and resources (newspaper articles, websites, TV shows, speeches, political policies, etc.). Then they work that evidence into a theory that is "proven" by the evidence, and transcends all of it.

Some may have merit, but the vast majority simply pander to the credulity and paranoia of the public, and feed the need of many conspiracy theorists.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'll say this for Deano: I'm generally going to disagree with him most of the time, but the majority of attempted explanations I see also come from him. As rebuttals, 90% of them amount to "you're crazy"....which may be true, but isn't a logical rebuttal to the proposed idea.

The problem is Digi, is that it just doesn't matter anymore. In the past I have tried to counter Deano's posts with both logic, research and well presented arguments.

When he spouted off about Egyptian heiroglyphics telling about the aliens that had created their civilization, I reached back into my university books on art history and archeology and pummeled his points into dust. Weeks later he started another thread, saying the same stuff even though it had been thoroughly refuted. And he continues to do so.

When he used, supposed, quotes from firemen to back his 9/11 debate, I showed him that his sources were manipulating the quotes and knowingly misrepresenting what the firemen actually said. Once again, weeks later, he reposted those quotes even though he knew they were inaccurate.

I have on multiple occasions shown his resources to be intentionally misleading, outright wrong, or (as with the general spoonbender case) certifiably insane. He sometimes even recognizes this, then weeks later will use the same or similar resources.

So I gave up. He doesn't care to question his beliefs, or the statements of those that he follows blindly, so when met with a person that chooses to indulge themselves in such behaviour, I am compelled to mockery for logic and common sense are wasted.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'll say this for Deano: I'm generally going to disagree with him most of the time, but the majority of attempted explanations I see also come from him. As rebuttals, 90% of them amount to "you're crazy"....which may be true, but isn't a logical rebuttal to the proposed idea.

Thats very true.thats how the majority of them act towards Deano.I dont follow his Reptillian threads but I know that when it comes to 9/11 it doesnt matter if its Deano.Anytime ANYONE comes on here and posts facts that proves beyond a doubt that bombs were for sure set of in the towers and that the only possible way it could have been accomplished was from being an inside job,doesnt matter who it is,they'll post the facts that prove it beyond a doubt and the people that have come on who insist it could not have been an inside job,will ignore the facts and just engage in insults no matter how hard you try to be nice to them and when they're insulted back,they act like innocent victems and complain about being insulted.Because of that,I dont even try to get a discussion on 9/11 here at this site anymore.Fortunately when i post about that now,I do it other sites where the posters are more reasonable.They have doubts that it was an inside job but they sense something is wrong because they at least listen to what you have to say unlike the posters here,so the discussions about it at other sites are a lot more civilized.Here their mind is made up and no matter what you post,they wont admit it when they're wrong.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Thats very true.thats how the majority of them act towards Deano.

See my above post. That post also loosley explains as to why most people mock you and have a hard time taking anything you say seriously.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Anytime ANYONE comes on here and posts facts that proves beyond a doubt that bombs were for sure set of in the towers and that the only possible way it could have been accomplished was from being an inside job,doesnt matter who it is,they'll post the facts that prove it beyond a doubt and the people that have come on who insist it could not have been an inside job,will ignore the facts and just engage in insults no matter how hard you try to be nice to them and when they're insulted back,they act like innocent victems and complain about being insulted.

First...Holy run on sentence! Punctuation is your friend. As for anyone posting evidence that "proves beyond a doubt that bombs were for sure set of in the towers", it hasn't happened yet. Whether you want to believe that or not.

Lastly, your posts are to be ignored for the very fact that you claim to not read any of the posts that disagree with you, then comment on the posters. You grasp on logic is as tenuous as is your grasp on coherent communication.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
The problem is Digi, is that it just doesn't matter anymore. In the past I have tried to counter Deano's posts with both logic, research and well presented arguments.

When he spouted off about Egyptian heiroglyphics telling about the aliens that had created their civilization, I reached back into my university books on art history and archeology and pummeled his points into dust. Weeks later he started another thread, saying the same stuff even though it had been thoroughly refuted. And he continues to do so.

When he used, supposed, quotes from firemen to back his 9/11 debate, I showed him that his sources were manipulating the quotes and knowingly misrepresenting what the firemen actually said. Once again, weeks later, he reposted those quotes even though he knew they were inaccurate.

I have on multiple occasions shown his resources to be intentionally misleading, outright wrong, or (as with the general spoonbender case) certifiably insane. He sometimes even recognizes this, then weeks later will use the same or similar resources.

So I gave up. He doesn't care to question his beliefs, or the statements of those that he follows blindly, so when met with a person that chooses to indulge themselves in such behaviour, I am compelled to mockery for logic and common sense are wasted.

True enough. You're more active on this forum than I am, so you're more qualified to speak on the details of it. And to be fair, my comment wasn't directed at you, because I realize you take more thorough stabs at logical debate than many on this forum.

Having seen your assessment of his arguments, I think my generalized observations match pretty well with your results. And it's unfortunate, but I don't think we have a ton of people who are willing to buy into it so readily, so that's at least good.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
The problem is Digi, is that it just doesn't matter anymore. In the past I have tried to counter Deano's posts with both logic, research and well presented arguments.

When he spouted off about Egyptian heiroglyphics telling about the aliens that had created their civilization, I reached back into my university books on art history and archeology and pummeled his points into dust. Weeks later he started another thread, saying the same stuff even though it had been thoroughly refuted. And he continues to do so.

When he used, supposed, quotes from firemen to back his 9/11 debate, I showed him that his sources were manipulating the quotes and knowingly misrepresenting what the firemen actually said. Once again, weeks later, he reposted those quotes even though he knew they were inaccurate.

I have on multiple occasions shown his resources to be intentionally misleading, outright wrong, or (as with the general spoonbender case) certifiably insane. He sometimes even recognizes this, then weeks later will use the same or similar resources.

So I gave up. He doesn't care to question his beliefs, or the statements of those that he follows blindly, so when met with a person that chooses to indulge themselves in such behaviour, I am compelled to mockery for logic and common sense are wasted.

thats what you think. theres a big difference. you didnt prove anything.

i never said i believed that aliens built the pyramids, but i am open to the possibility, and i try to put points across that can help others to be open minded. and do you ever think that your history books might be wrong? why do you take them as gospal?

you are lying when you say you have shown posts to be misleading. only once have you done that, and that was to a ramdon thread i posted. i never believed it or not believed it.

most of the threads i create get ignored by you when you cant counter them. most of the time you only come into a thread to mock.

as for the fireman quotes lol well you can go and listen to them if you want. they are on most of the 9/11 dvds. and thats not the only thing that helps prove that 9/11 was an inside job. the evidence is overwhelming. you just choose not to see it.

you have a belief system to desperatly defend. And your post as just proved to me that you are a master at twisting things.

Having an open mind doesn't mean being susceptible to every outlandish suggestion that rolls around. That's called naivety. Open-minded means weighing all arguments and determining a logical conclusion, and if the insanely outlandish suggestions hold no merit, it becomes entirely reasonable to discard it.

I think that even if you have a point about KharmaDog not be able to refute everything, you should also be willing to come down from your conspiratorial pedestal when he calls you out with contradicting evidence that debunks your own.

Originally posted by Deano
thats what you think. theres a big difference. you didnt prove anything.

i never said i believed that aliens built the pyramids, but i am open to the possibility, and i try to put points across that can help others to be open minded. and do you ever think that your history books might be wrong? why do you take them as gospal?

you are lying when you say you have shown posts to be misleading. only once have you done that, and that was to a ramdon thread i posted. i never believed it or not believed it.

most of the threads i create get ignored by you when you cant counter them. most of the time you only come into a thread to mock.

as for the fireman quotes lol well you can go and listen to them if you want. they are on most of the 9/11 dvds. and thats not the only thing that helps prove that 9/11 was an inside job. the evidence is overwhelming. you just choose not to see it.

you have a belief system to desperatly defend. And your post as just proved to me that you are a master at twisting things.

thats true.Anytime I have seen a thread Deano has made about the two topics I have an interest in,the new world order and 9/11,when Deano brings up points especially about 9/11,when Kharma dog and others cant counter them,they ignore his points and engage in childish insults,but as i said before,its not just Deano they do that with,they do that with ANYBODY who cant get past the belief that it was an inside job.

You refer them to books and DVDS that document and prove it all and like Deano said,people like Kharma dog choose to ignore our points and just insult us when they have been proven their sources are wrong.With kharma dog,like Deano said,he just comes on his threads to mock him.

Deaon is correct.all you got to do to see those quotes that the firemen have said are true is just got to places like info wars and purchase the DVD'S od the live footage which took place that day and you can hear for yourself with your own ears the voices of the firefighters saying that explosives have been planted in the buildings.But like Deano said,people like Kharma dog and many others just ignore the sources that you refer them to that proves what your saying to be true and just go off and insult you which proves they are just here to troll and not learn the truth about conspiracys.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Having an open mind doesn't mean being susceptible to every outlandish suggestion that rolls around. That's called naivety. Open-minded means weighing all arguments and determining a logical conclusion, and if the insanely outlandish suggestions hold no merit, it becomes entirely reasonable to discard it.

I think that even if you have a point about KharmaDog not be able to refute everything, you should also be willing to come down from your conspiratorial pedestal when he calls you out with contradicting evidence that debunks your own.

thats just it,in the debates I have followed with him and Deano,like I said,he will refer him to DVDS that you can order to hear for yourself the statements of the firemen that very day and he never can give contradicting evidence that debunks what he is saying.Like he said,the evidence is overwhelming,its not Deanos fault that people like kharma dog chooses to ignore it and not follow up on his sources he refers him to.or cant admit it when his sources have been proven to be false.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Having an open mind doesn't mean being susceptible to every outlandish suggestion that rolls around. That's called naivety. Open-minded means weighing all arguments and determining a logical conclusion, and if the insanely outlandish suggestions hold no merit, it becomes entirely reasonable to discard it.

I think that even if you have a point about KharmaDog not be able to refute everything, you should also be willing to come down from your conspiratorial pedestal when he calls you out with contradicting evidence that debunks your own.

i dont belive in every outlandish suggestions. some theories are outlandish, but only because its different from what we have been conditioned to believe. the only wisdom is knowing we no nothing.

he never called me out and he hasnt debunked nothing.. i posted a thread i found interesting. it was some random page from a website and it turned out to be bogus. i never claimed it was true.

Originally posted by Deano
i dont belive in every outlandish suggestions. some theories are outlandish, but only because its different from what we have been conditioned to believe. the only wisdom is knowing we no nothing.

he never called me out and he hasnt debunked nothing.. i posted a thread i found interesting. it was some random page from a website and it turned out to be bogus. i never claimed it was true. I believe most of this post to be delusional.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
He should have kept his mouth shut on his belief in reptillians being amongst us.Because of that,they can use that ammunition against him when he talks about real stuff that we know for sure is going on like the NWO and yeah I hate those kinda troll comments magee makes as well just because he's too afraid to look at the truth.

Ah, good old Parker. I expected nothing more than a simple restatement of what Deano said, and that is exactly what you did.

Bravo.

I'm a reptillian. Hello.

Originally posted by Deano
i dont belive in every outlandish suggestions. some theories are outlandish, but only because its different from what we have been conditioned to believe. the only wisdom is knowing we no nothing.

he never called me out and he hasnt debunked nothing.. i posted a thread i found interesting. it was some random page from a website and it turned out to be bogus. i never claimed it was true.

So are you backing down by saying you never claimed certain things were true? Then why give people a hard time who pose legitimate questions and counter-arguments to the ideas?

Also, if you're pulling information from "random pages" as you put it, your own sources can be called sharply into question. So even as you accuse others of blindly accepting that which they're told (which they aren't, if they bother to form an opinion about it based on critical analysis) at the same time the same question of validity of information could be directed at you.

Be careful what you read and watch, sure. But suggesting a non-belief in vast amounts of material based on a perceived conspiracy is, at best, needlessly paranoid, since it paints all forms of mainstream media in such broad generalized strokes without looking in depth at the actual sources and material, much of which is credible.

Being skeptical works both ways. It doesn't mean being open to conspiracies or not open to them. It means analyzing arguments, sources, and information from both sides to determine what is right. Otherwise, you're no better than, say, a Christian who believes their religion without making themselves aware of the best arguments against both Christianity and theism in general, and merely reinforces their own belief with material that agrees with their world view. Maybe they're right, but they never properly investigate both sides.

Originally posted by J-Beowulf
Ah, good old Parker. I expected nothing more than a simple restatement of what Deano said, and that is exactly what you did.

Bravo. That's all he ever does.

Originally posted by Magee
I always assumed people like deano had personality disorders which is the reason they believe in such outlandish theories. Like you said because it makes them feel special, like they know some thing others don't which is a classic sign of schizophrenic tendencies.

Schizophrenia is not what you are thinking of my chum herbdance

Anyway I'm still not sure on my opinions on conspiracy theorists. The ones who believe every single conspiracy are a bit deluded, but the ones who speculate on a few fairly reasonable conspiracies (NWO, 9/11 etc.) seem to actually believe what they are saying, and so are at least rational (in some sense).

lulz.

It seems his default escape plan is either to claim you never proved him wrong, or to assert that "it's interesting but I'm not saying it's true". It's clear he either believes most of it, or wants to, so the latter is patently false by any stretch of the imagination. He mistakes the conspiracy forum for a "post any random theory" forum...without bothering to empirically research the sources he's citing, as well as the conspiracies he believes.

If (big if) there are some threads of his that have merit, they end up buried beneath mountains of crap that ruins any credibility he might have had.

If I were re-starting this forum, I'd have a set of rules that made these ideas explicit, and a lot of his stuff would end up closed. Of course, I wouldn't have made the forum in the first place (such paranoid pandering to human credulity that you get in this forum from lots of people is rarely beneficial) but that's not my decision to make.

The thing is, there could be some good discussions in here. But it seems that the mere hint of anything conspiracey related brings out the idiots making this a wasteland barren of logic with only a few oasises of hope and common sense.

It offers less to indulge my curiosity and interest than it does to entertain me at the basest of levels. But it's a guilty pleaseure that I do enjoy.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
The thing is, there could be some good discussions in here. But it seems that the mere hint of anything conspiracey related brings out the idiots making this a wasteland barren of logic with only a few oasises of hope and common sense.

It offers less to indulge my curiosity and interest than it does to entertain me at the basest of levels. But it's a guilty pleaseure that I do enjoy.

Meh, I just feel like the good discussions would be so few and far between (as we see) that it's really not feasible to ever have a forum like this that doesn't end up being nothing but crap. There's good and bad to any section on KMC, but whereas most other forums promote some interest or hobby (games, movies, comics, artwork, etc.) this is promoting either naive reactionary credulity or just plain paranoia. It's not really productive in that sense, especially when the nature of the forum lends itself to speculation, not empirical research.

I don't mind taking part in discussion now and then in this forum, but it's definitely among my least favorites due to both the content and intent.

I actually might have had an idea that is very much related to KharmaDog's original point.

Memes are units of information that are replicated within the brain. Basically they are ideas, and they travel from brain to brain "replicating" themselves. Some have stronger staying power....a Beatles song as opposed to a one-hit wonder, for instance. Or the concept of memes, which someone may not know about, is being transferred from my mind to his via these words.

Memes are also stronger if they "work together." Religion is a good example. You are more likely to find a meme for "free will" in the mind of someone who also possesses the "belief in Christian God" meme. They support one another, and the two are packaged in the group (meme-complex) that we conveniently label "Christianity." Such cooperation strengthens the adherence of a person to certain memes/ideas.

One step further (we get to conspiracies eventually): Some memes are self-actualizing. "Faith" is a good example. Faith is belief without evidence, and for many people this is a virtue....because it's built into the idea (meme) of faith. The less evidence for their belief, the stronger the faith has to be, and thus more holy or virtuous. It prides itself on the lack of evidence, or at least does not need evidence to maintain itself. Few memes are like this, but they exist. A person whose faith-meme is deeply rooted will never waver from it, because its very nature resists attempts to dislodge it.

Jump to conspiracies. Deano seems to be the poster child for much of this because of his prominence here (and I feel somewhat bad about that, since I've never had personal quarrel with him) but I'm speaking more to conspiracy theorists in general than him specifically.

"Conspiracies exist" is a meme, and one that seems to me like it has the potential to be as powerfully self-actualizing as blind faith. If you believe in the conspiracy, others telling you contrary opinions will fall on deaf ears, regardless of their strength. If a "most don't realize it and are sheep and/or slaves to the system" meme (or something similar) accompanies the main conspiracy meme, the two will strengthen each other, and differing opinions may actually have the opposite affect on a person by making them believe it all the more. The meme-complex is so focused on the idea that the theorist is right, conspiracies exist, and contradictory evidence is incidental and not "true," that the person will not waver from their position, because the meme values adherence to it regardless of anything else.

It's entirely possible for people to become so obsessed with a particular meme or meme-complex that they lose sight of all else (including reason). I believe the label for them is memeoids. There are doubtless even more insidious memes/ideas that such people possess that I cannot even imagine, all of which strengthen their resolve and beliefs. In that sense, a Bible-thumping evangelical Christian and a conspiracy theorist (who may believe nothing about organized religion) are not so far removed from one another.

I borrowed a few ideas from Richard Dawkins' essay "Viruses of the Mind," as well as ideas and words from other meme theorists, but the connection to conspiracy theorists was my own.

Holy crap! An intelligent, well thought out and interesting post in the conspiracy forum. It's a fricken' dream come true.

In all seriousnes, excellent post digi. Worth looking into and investigazting more.

Most interesting, in regards to this forum, are the following quotes:
"Some memes are self-actualizing"

"If you believe in the conspiracy, others telling you contrary opinions will fall on deaf ears, regardless of their strength. If a "most don't realize it and are sheep and/or slaves to the system" meme (or something similar) accompanies the main conspiracy meme, the two will strengthen each other, and differing opinions may actually have the opposite affect on a person by making them believe it all the more."

Heh, thanks. Meme theory in general is pretty interesting stuff, and this seemed directly related to Dawkins' article that I mentioned, which focused on blind faith, and its likeness to a virus. The similarities come with the fact that the meme seeks to replicate itself, and is sturdily immune to most outside forces that would seek to displace it.

Conspiracies in general shouldn't be investigated with a paranoid agenda or a confirmation bias that lends itself to selectively interpreting data. This leads to obvious dilutions of the truth, or even of reasonable estimates that we can and can't make based on the information available to us. Conspiracy theorists would do better to fancy themselves as a very loose form of scientist, investigating claims scientifically...which would include repeated trials free from bias (as much as is possible), and exposure to contradictory evidence.

Ironically, the objective nature required for that kind of testing makes the majority of conspiracy theorists the least qualified to investigate them, which is a large part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of this forum. Amusing, certainly, but the very idea of "conspiracy" and the regular concepts associated with it, ensure that objectivity will be at a minimum.

That is spot on and can be applied perfectly to a few conspiracy nuts in here, really interesting read that.

A strong person who can think for himself will research into these conspiracies and then find the truth about our reality today.

A weak person will tell you they are fairytales, afraid of losing their entire beliefsystem over night.

So the title of this topic should be the other way around:

Weak person lets the world dictate his thoughts.
Strong person finds the truth by himself.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So are you backing down by saying you never claimed certain things were true? Then why give people a hard time who pose legitimate questions and counter-arguments to the ideas?

Also, if you're pulling information from "random pages" as you put it, your own sources can be called sharply into question. So even as you accuse others of blindly accepting that which they're told (which they aren't, if they bother to form an opinion about it based on critical analysis) at the same time the same question of validity of information could be directed at you.

Be careful what you read and watch, sure. But suggesting a non-belief in vast amounts of material based on a perceived conspiracy is, at best, needlessly paranoid, since it paints all forms of mainstream media in such broad generalized strokes without looking in depth at the actual sources and material, much of which is credible.

Being skeptical works both ways. It doesn't mean being open to conspiracies or not open to them. It means analyzing arguments, sources, and information from both sides to determine what is right. Otherwise, you're no better than, say, a Christian who believes their religion without making themselves aware of the best arguments against both Christianity and theism in general, and merely reinforces their own belief with material that agrees with their world view. Maybe they're right, but they never properly investigate both sides.

no ones perfect. thats the point here. my gripe is with people who continue to ignore the evidence thats staring them right in front of there eyes.

the main concerns:

centrilastion of power
world government
cashless society
increased surveilanc
manipulated wars
microchipped people

people need to open there eyes up to those problems instead of pouncing on other members of the forum.

centrilastion of power - bound to happen as a society technologically advances

world government - see above, as the world grows smaller, it begins to fall under an increasingly larger umbrella

cashless society - the very basis of the world economy is absurd. whether you pass a note to receive a bag of milk or run a card through a machine that reads a magnetic strip, it makes no nevermind. The idea of our economy is based on a mutual agreement on perceived worth. I find that idea, in an of itself, absurd.

increased surveilance - is a direct result of people's need to feel more secure in a world that seems increasingly hostile

manipulated wars- ALL WARS IN ALL OF HISTORY HAVE BEEN MANIPULATED. Your inability to see that, or conveniently disregard that to suit your purpose makes you either blindingly stupid, or willingly naive.

microchipped people - I don't see it happening.

Deano, your concerns are for the most part, bullsh*t. You rag on about human sacrifices, alien reptiles, secret societies and fictioious organizations. You wrap the basic truth that people suck in a myriad of dellusions to better help you cope in a world that you find truly scarey.

It's simple, people strive for wealth and power, be they Petsian kings, Viking raiders, or wealthy business men. They generally don't care about the little people that they step on and they are too concerneed with their own wealth and success to try and form a united front with other rich and powerful people who have their own goals, hence war.

The world is a scary place because people treat people like sh*t. You try and make it seem scarier because it's easier for you to deal with the fiction more than the reality.

you are wrong on several things. you think it will all happen by accident. evidence suggests it is a planned scheme

wars are not just manipulated in the little way you think. They are planned. 9/11 was an obvious example to pull another war. problem reaction solution. just like when hitler blew up his reichstag building and then blamed it on the christians. why do people think that our governments are the good guys?

cashless society : http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2347411.ece


increaded surveilance: you say ''is a direct result of people's need to feel more secure in a world that seems increasingly hostile''

when in fact they are deliberatly hyping up and creating the hostility in the world so then people like you ask for more surveilance. problem reation solution.

and you are absolutely right when you say people are shit and they strive for more total power. thats exactly what this little group of evil men are about. they want total control over our lives and they are doing a brilliant job so far. and what are we going to do about it?

and what is wrong with talking about secret societys and the human sacrifices that go on. should we just disregard these things? no i dont think so.

i do suggest you do some more research on secret societys. there influence in world affairs is more probable than you would like to think. but i doubt your concrete mind would be able to process much

I just saw "National Treasure 2" and couldn't help but cringe a couple times at how it plays to this same kind of human credulity, but on a much broader level.

Not a horrible film, and a decent romp through a typical adventure film....part Davinci Code, part Indiana Jones, part Ocean's 11 (only better than the first of those, it should be noted). But scary because of its content, and how willing people are to believe that there's things going on around us...but not needing proper evidence for it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I just saw "National Treasure 2" and couldn't help but cringe a couple times at how it plays to this same kind of human credulity, but on a much broader level.

Not a horrible film, and a decent romp through a typical adventure film....part Davinci Code, part Indiana Jones, part Ocean's 11 (only better than the first of those, it should be noted). But scary because of its content, and how willing people are to believe that there's things going on around us...but not needing proper evidence for it.

The Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned, while the general public thinks its owned by the USA government.

I deal with FACTS not theories.

Please prove to me that the Federal Reserve Bank is not owned by a couple of european bankers and maybe you will be able to convince me

Please prove to me the FED is owned by the USA government. Thats all i ask from you. Surely you will be able to prove me otherwise. I mean you talk with so much confidence you must be right

Originally posted by apoc001
I'm a reptillian. Hello. Are we all meeting at planet Corktron at 120293, or did the Reptillian commander change the time?

Originally posted by Katsu
The Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned, while the general public thinks its owned by the USA government.

I deal with FACTS not theories.

Please prove to me that the Federal Reserve Bank is not owned by a couple of european bankers and maybe you will be able to convince me

Please prove to me the FED is owned by the USA government. Thats all i ask from you. Surely you will be able to prove me otherwise. I mean you talk with so much confidence you must be right

The hell? I don't even know what you're talking about. Mind telling me how this is a response to my post?

Something about the Federal Reserve being owned by reverse-vampires from Cybertron and their plans to collapse the world's economy for the purposes of lowering the price of DKNY sunglasses; I'm pretty sure it decisively nullifies all your points, Digi.

childish trolls spring up when the truth gets too hot tohandle. ive noticed that lately

yeah they've been multiplying in droves lately here.First Sweersa,then Jack R Crown in the new world order thread,now this guy.

I really don't think it's possible to troll in the place where paranoid delusions come to die. Besides to post "seriously" in here would accredit it with some sort of legitimacy, of which it's wholly undeserving.

That and I am the lizard queen.
http://static.flickr.com/1/128738238_80b03c80b7_m.jpg

Or at least something of a similar nature.

There are true stories that are slandered with words like "tin foil" and "cracks". Then there are some totally false stories.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Something about the Federal Reserve being owned by reverse-vampires from Cybertron and their plans to collapse the world's economy for the purposes of lowering the price of DKNY sunglasses; I'm pretty sure it decisively nullifies all your points, Digi.

Ah. I guess I'm pwned then.



Originally posted by Deano
childish trolls spring up when the truth gets too hot tohandle. ive noticed that lately

Well, the conspriacy forum is fairly new, relatively speaking. It's bound to attract others. And when most see that 99% of the forum is an abomination of logic, their comments will end up looking like trolling. People like KharmaDog and myself are a couple of the few who decide to take up the challenge of debating every now and then, but it's mostly just a fruitless endeavor.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Besides to post "seriously" in here would accredit it with some sort of legitimacy, of which it's wholly undeserving.

Pretty much.

Great Posts Katsu and Deano.Keep up the good work. you guys have really done your homework.well done.

Originally posted by Katsu
A strong person who can think for himself will research into these conspiracies and then find the truth about our reality today.

A weak person will tell you they are fairytales, afraid of losing their entire beliefsystem over night.

So the title of this topic should be the other way around:

Weak person lets the world dictate his thoughts.
Strong person finds the truth by himself.

well done my man,well done.I could not have said it better myself.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Having an open mind doesn't mean being susceptible to every outlandish suggestion that rolls around.

That's the problem, you see.

Anything on the news is a lie, but something discovered online that's allegedly been "leaked", that is a suitable source of believable material. Believing nothing is as stupid as believing everything, and choosing only to believe something written and released on the net, said to be a government leak is even worse.

Because we all know the government are that silly. They somehow leaked their plans to the point that Mr. Parker, a man with a six year (And going) die hard grudge against a MOVIE, has rumbled them. Clearly these people know things about the government that we do not.

All this, and they seem to forget; if they are right, then what? Then they suffer the same fate as us, except we've not spent time getting mocked and worrying. If they think that by knowing this, they have an edge, all they need to realise is that if they realise it now, and these so-called higher-powers will still do what they want...then what good does "knowing" even do?

This will fall on deaf ears and I'll be called a blind sheep who refuses to see the truth, in the biggest display of irony ever.

Originally posted by Katsu
Weak person lets the world dictate his thoughts.
Strong person finds the truth by himself.

No, what you mean is:

Weak person believes things we do not.
Strong person finds the truth we agree with, and believes that.

That is exactly your belief system.

-AC

haha...brilliant....my exact point to a T...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's the problem, you see.

Anything on the news is a lie, but something discovered online that's allegedly been "leaked", that is a suitable source of believable material. Believing nothing is as stupid as believing everything, and choosing only to believe something written and released on the net, said to be a government leak is even worse.

Because we all know the government are that silly. They somehow leaked their plans to the point that Mr. Parker, a man with a six year (And going) die hard grudge against a MOVIE, has rumbled them. Clearly these people know things about the government that we do not.

All this, and they seem to forget; if they are right, then what? Then they suffer the same fate as us, except we've not spent time getting mocked and worrying. If they think that by knowing this, they have an edge, all they need to realise is that if they realise it now, and these so-called higher-powers will still do what they want...then what good does "knowing" even do?

This will fall on deaf ears and I'll be called a blind sheep who refuses to see the truth, in the biggest display of irony ever.



No, what you mean is:

Weak person believes things we do not.
Strong person finds the truth we agree with, and believes that.

That is exactly your belief system.

-AC

the thing is ac, i dont mind watching the news if there are actual journalists out there who are not just going to parrot what the government officials tell them.

your not a blind sheep, i just think you are unable to accept you may have had the wool pulled over your eyes all these years.

Originally posted by Deano
the thing is ac, i dont mind watching the news if there are actual journalists out there who are not just going to parrot what the government officials tell them.

your not a blind sheep, i just think you are unable to accept you may have had the wool pulled over your eyes all these years.

maybe...but the problem you go on the basis that if a journalist repeats what he has been told that somehow nothing the journalist says has any integrity anymore and thus them and the broadcaster they represent are all liars and furthering a government cause


which is utterly absurd to a ridiculous extent

Originally posted by jaden101
maybe...but the problem you go on the basis that if a journalist repeats what he has been told that somehow nothing the journalist says has any integrity anymore and thus them and the broadcaster they represent are all liars and furthering a government cause


which is utterly absurd to a ridiculous extent

How can you have integrity if a journalist assumes that the "officials" have integrity and we should thus not question their sources or their "news"?

Does a journalist have integrity if he just blindly copies what Reuters, AP and more of these Illuminati controlled media outlets offer him?

Has the journalist not lost his way by not thinking for himself anymore but simply copying what the Elite wants him to copy?

So yes, maybe the journalist is ignorant of him furthering the agenda of the Elite but that does not make him "innocent". A journalist should always question their sources and make sure that what they write about is the truth and not something some Elite people want to be the truth.

We could say that the journalist has lost his way and is pretty much useless nowadays.

I say burn the papers, stop watching CNN and find the truth on the internet, the only place that is not fully under the Elite's control yet!

"Blindly copies." "Parrot"s. Irony. Lulz.

Originally posted by Katsu
I say burn the papers, stop watching CNN and find the truth on the internet, the only place that is not fully under the Elite's control yet!

Hahahahahahahaha.

Originally posted by Katsu
I say burn the papers, stop watching CNN and find the truth on the internet, the only place that is not fully under the Elite's control yet!

The internet has been the cause of much ignorance and misinformation to the masses who use it as a primary research tool. Talk to teachers who see kids use it as their primary source of research, or take a look at wikipedia as a prime example that any idiot can post anything and claim it's true.

A social brocolli who has been unable to garner any recognition or respect in archeology, science or whatever, who has no training in said discipline can blindly make any statement he wishes, and a bunch of idiots with a loose grasp on reality will take it as gospel because it's on the internet.

yeh your right but its not controlled and you get to hear more than just the official line.

of course there is disinformation about. its everywhere. so be careful

Originally posted by Deano
the thing is ac, i dont mind watching the news if there are actual journalists out there who are not just going to parrot what the government officials tell them.

your not a blind sheep, i just think you are unable to accept you may have had the wool pulled over your eyes all these years.

The government will always pull wool over our eyes, that's what you fail to see. It's not a failure to accept it's happening, it's accepting that ultimately nobody can do anything about it in the grand scheme of things.

For all the years you have spent, and will spend, on conspiracy theories, how much closer are you to being free of the government? There are people who have been alive decades longer, with a lot more time and research into this than you, and they still remain citizens in a country under government rule.

Sucky? Yes, it does suck sometimes, but ultimately, you are as powerless as I am, and I'm not the one spending my time worrying about all this. Ultimately all we get is the chance to vote, that's it.

It's stupid to assume you are any closer to "truth". You really think the "Elite" are so powerful and secretive, yet somehow they're being discussed on KMC by people who can barely use their computers? Let's be serious.

-AC

Well, it's good to know that you know what's going on AC.

Originally posted by Deano


of course there is disinformation about. its everywhere. so be careful

Cosigned, their's dis-info in every media machine. The internet is no worst than TV.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The government will always pull wool over our eyes, that's what you fail to see. It's not a failure to accept it's happening, it's accepting that ultimately nobody can do anything about it in the grand scheme of things.

For all the years you have spent, and will spend, on conspiracy theories, how much closer are you to being free of the government? There are people who have been alive decades longer, with a lot more time and research into this than you, and they still remain citizens in a country under government rule.

Sucky? Yes, it does suck sometimes, but ultimately, you are as powerless as I am, and I'm not the one spending my time worrying about all this. Ultimately all we get is the chance to vote, that's it.

It's stupid to assume you are any closer to "truth". You really think the "Elite" are so powerful and secretive, yet somehow they're being discussed on KMC by people who can barely use their computers? Let's be serious.

-AC

we are not powerless.

what happened when thatcher started the poll tax scheme? people didnt want to pay it. so what happened?..it collapsed.

so in a few years when they want to stick a chip in your arm, hopefully everyone will say no.

this is why im interested in this. i want the information to get out there and for people to wake up to this.

and yes they are secretive. we dont know who they are but we know they are there.

Originally posted by Deano
we are not powerless.

what happened when thatcher started the poll tax scheme? people didnt want to pay it. so what happened?..it collapsed.

so in a few years when they want to stick a chip in your arm, hopefully everyone will say no.

this is why im interested in this. i want the information to get out there and for people to wake up to this.

and yes they are secretive. we dont know who they are but we know they are there.

Wake up to what? You do realise that what you are doing and the way you are acting is really no different to a fundamentalist religious fanatic, who believes he or she has knowledge of a greater, factual truth that everyone must accept, right?

Thatcher is a lot different to the supposed world order you are proposing. I'm not denying the idea of an elite group of people who run a lot of shit, but my point is, I'm not going to lose sleep simply because my life has not been any worse because of any existence you claim is there.

If it gets to the point of the government wanting to implant chips in us, it doesn't matter if you're a conspiracy theorist of ten years, or someone like me, you'll obviously say no. It doesn't take any "waking up", it's common sense. I'm talking about right now.

I think a lot of what is posted here is stupid and idiotic, but I'm not gonna storm in here and abuse you, I am just telling you why a lot of your stances, the very REASON for having them, is a bit silly.

-AC

not everyone will say no though because there will come a time where everyone will be manipulated into wanting one.

the world does need waking up. look around you. i dont buy your 'lets do nothing attitude''

having the common sense to see the insanity in the world is nothing like a religious fanatic either. if you ever have any kids, would you like them to live in a 1984 world?

Originally posted by Deano
not everyone will say no though because there will come a time where everyone will be manipulated into wanting one.

You do not know that. You are assuming everyone is that stupid and you're the only one who isn't because you read and believe conspiracies on the net, Deano.

Do you realise how utterly idiotic that is? You NEED to be that way because it facilitates your belief. If you gave people credit to realise that implants are clearly a step too far, you'd have nothing to stand on.

Originally posted by Deano
the world does need waking up. look around you. i dont buy your 'lets do nothing attitude''

I don't care what you buy or don't buy. I'm not going to suffer any less or more than you.

Originally posted by Deano
having the common sense to see the insanity in the world is nothing like a religious fanatic either. if you ever have any kids, would you like them to live in a 1984 world?

That's not what you're doing, though. You're pushing an idea that you personally chose to believe, saying everyone who doesn't is stupid or blind, and that for a fact, nobody will do anything to stop it. You believe you have accessed a greater truth and are therefore better off, that's precisely the mindset of cult leaders, ironically.

-AC

I have found out about the Truth of our world today. We are being ruled by an occult elite who control us making use of Hegelian Dialectics, Machiavellism and tons of more evil "ideologies" and "philosophies" you could think of.

Does this make me a better person? No.
Does this make me feel better? No.
Does this make me happier? No.

This truth is a conspiracy against mankind. So the reason why i tell people about this truth on forums is because i love all living beings and i want to see us progress.

Nothing more, nothing less.

These people in control are evil. They wont let us progress. They want us to stay down so they can stay in control.

You may call me weak, dumb, ignorant, paranoid or anything you want. I will never stop telling people about those in control till the day that we realize that we as a people control our own destiny instead of letting this elite manipulate our destiny as they have been doing since Babylon and Sumer.

Infinite Love to all!

Are you scared to just do it for yourself, by yourself? I think you, like any other cult minded individual, are just scared to the point that you need to try brainwashing and recruiting as many as possible.

You lot are no different than religious fanatics or cultists.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Are you scared to just do it for yourself, by yourself? I think you, like any other cult minded individual, are just scared to the point that you need to try brainwashing and recruiting as many as possible.

You lot are no different than religious fanatics or cultists.

-AC

Are you scared that all of this might be true?

This quote by J. Edgar Hoover is SO YOU: "The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." J. Edgar Hoover

Please reply to what i have said. Do you know how Hegelian Dialectics or Machiavellism work? If you knew how these things work you could see the truth about our world today.

My suggestion, stop wanking to teenporn, quit playing Super Mario Galaxy and stop watching The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

Read a book!

I don't think it's any coincidence that most of the conspiracy theorists I've seen or met, have a very basic grasp of the English language. I believe it not to be a crutch for the weak, but a crutch for the unintelligent. This way they feel part of something exclusive, and are given a sense of grandeur they cannot get anywhere else.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I don't think it's any coincidence that most of the conspiracy theorists I've seen or met, have a very basic grasp of the English language. I believe it not to be a crutch for the weak, but a crutch for the unintelligent. This way they feel part of something exclusive, and are given a sense of grandeur they cannot get anywhere else.

You seem to focus on the form/grammar etc of my message, how shallow! English is my third language, im fluent in dutch and japanese, how about you?

Please reply to the things i have said.

Hegelian Dialectics? Machiavellism?

Here some examples of Hegelian Dialectics for amateurs:

These = 9-11
Antithese = Fear of terrorists
Synthese = War on terror

These = Maffia threaten businessman
Antithese = Maffia introduce themselves as protectors
Synthese = Maffia gets paid for protection

These = Hitler sets Reichtagg on fire
Antithese = Hitler blaims communists, people fear communists
Synthese = War on communists

In simple words: Problem-> Reaction-> Solution

This is how the Elite have controlled us for thousands of years. Nero did it, Caesar did it and Bush is doing it.

Originally posted by Katsu
You seem to focus on the form/grammar etc of my message, how shallow! English is my third language, im fluent in dutch and japanese, how about you?

Please reply to the things i have said.

I wasn't talking specifically about you, otherwise I would have said your name. I'm fluent in Turkish and French.

Everything else you posted I can reply to simply, by saying - if you really do believe all of this, what are you doing about it? You're as much controlled as the rest of us, in fact probably more, as the obsession with government conspiracies has crept into your life. Given your take on the government, they've done what they've set out to do, they've made you believe that they have absolute power over you and the population. So is this your great revolution, talking about it in a forum with other people who avoid punctuation like the plague? It's pathetic.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I wasn't talking specifically about you, otherwise I would have said your name. I'm fluent in Turkish and French.

Everything else you posted I can reply to simply, by saying - if you really do believe all of this, what are you doing about it? You're as much controlled as the rest of us, in fact probably more, as the obsession with government conspiracies has crept into your life. Given your take on the government, they've done what they've set out to do, they've made you believe that they have absolute power over you and the population. So is this your great revolution, talking about in a forum with other people who avoid punctuation like the plague? It's pathetic.

Im waking people up. What are you doing? Putting more fear in people? Do you hate humans? Do you know what Love is? Do you know that this thing called Love is making me do this?

PS How can the conspiracy creep into someones life when its all around us. Haahahah quite the paradox.

Originally posted by Katsu
Im waking people up. What are you doing? Putting more fear in people? Do you hate humans? Do you know what Love is? Do you know that this thing called Love is making me do this?

PS How can the conspiracy creep into someones life when its all around us. Haahahah quite the paradox.

Yeah, sure, love and paranoia and probably delusions of grandeur are to blame.

You're using a forum dedicated to talking about movies to 'wake people up', it all seems a little half hearted. Perhaps you should try and start a Guevara-esque movement, or at least frequent a forum dedicated to the discussion of politics. Also, if you're going to wake people up, you need actual hard evidence, not a silly correlation that has no bearing on anything.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Yeah, sure, love and paranoia and probably delusions of grandeur are to blame.

You're using a forum dedicated to talking about movies to 'wake people up', it all seems a little half hearted. Perhaps you should try and start a Guevara-esque movement, or at least frequent a forum dedicated to the discussion of politics. Also, if you're going to wake people up, you need actual hard evidence, not a silly correlation that has no bearing on anything.

Proof: The Federal Reserve is owned by private bankers from europe.

You and the people think the FED is owned by the USA.

The End.

/me yells out: NEXT FOOL PLEASE.

Is that really your reply? That's a rather poor effort.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Is that really your reply? That's a rather poor effort.

Well please disprove it and then we will continue talking.

Originally posted by Katsu
Well please disprove it and then we will continue talking.

It's not up to me to disprove anything or prove anything, you have to present proof to me, not the other way round.

Originally posted by Katsu
Are you scared that all of this might be true?

This quote by J. Edgar Hoover is SO YOU: "The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." J. Edgar Hoover

Please reply to what i have said. Do you know how Hegelian Dialectics or Machiavellism work? If you knew how these things work you could see the truth about our world today.

My suggestion, stop wanking to teenporn, quit playing Super Mario Galaxy and stop watching The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

Read a book!

You are proving me right. You refuse to accept any other possible outcome other than you being 100% right, typical cultist, extremist behaviour.

-AC

I sit here and read AC & Chill's posts and notice that they are not saying anything that I have not said before to a few members of this forum. They present logical, systematic points, and are met with delusional rantings, misrepresented facts (and I use that word with great trepidation) and desperate (if not excessively repetitive) ramblings.

As I stated in my original post. I believe that there are valid conspiracies out there, and I find them interesting for many reasons. However, the conspiracy paranoia that has infected the lives of many (especially on this board) I believe to be a greater reflection of their own lack of confidence, weaknesses, maturity and intellectual standing more so than a reflection on actual current events.

As to Chill's comment, I have to admit, I have yet to meet or read anything from a "hardcore" conspirasist that was either logically thought out or well written. That says quite enough on the validity of their claims or the intelligence or forethought behind their ideas.

yeh and you are wrong. you all miss the point completely. ive broke out of the conditioning and im glad i have.

its like the kids who write on the bombs in the middle east and then watch them fly over to slaughter other children. how much conditioning and hate have they been filled with.

its no different than the conditioning to accept the official version of events even though they make little sense at all.

im not saying i know everything. im saying i probably do know a little more than the average human who sits around watching cnn and reading the newspaper. And all im trying to do is let people know that there are other theorys and ideas out there and thay we shoudlnt all be so narrow minded

Originally posted by Deano
yeh and you are wrong.

Originally posted by Deano
And all im trying to do is let people know that there are other theorys and ideas out there and thay we shoudlnt all be so narrow minded

If you don't see the sad irony of the above, you are all but lost.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
If you don't see the sad irony of the above, you are all but lost.

We are lost alright.

90% of the wealth in 10% of the population.
People still have wars.
People are only concerned with material pleasure.
People are only after money, status and power.
People are out of touch with nature.
People only think about themselves.
People dont care about other living beings.
Thousands of people are dying of famine and disease.

You are the one who is lost for not seeing the world around you.

Here, have a look around, this is the state of our world today:

http://www.blagoevgrad.com/wp-content/fat_kid.jpg

EDIT

WAKE UP!

OOPS DOUBLE POST, im sorry

Do you even know what your main argument is anymore?

-AC

Katsu, please do not post disturbing images. This is a PG-13 website.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Katsu, please do not post disturbing images. This is a PG-13 website.

So people are not allowed to see reality as it is? WOW!

This my people is the land of the Free!

I cannot show you a picture of a person who is dying of famine!

You may not see reality as it is. You are only allowed to see the world as hollywood thinks it is.........every person is slim, hot, tanned, intelligent and handsome. There exist no fat people! No one is dying of famine! No one is dying in wars!

Keep on sleeping! Ill fight the fight for you, my ignorant sheeple!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you even know what your main argument is anymore?

-AC

Yes, my main argument is that the world is a SHITHOLE at the moment due to the Elite who is controlling us making use of Machiavellism and Hegelian Dialectics.

You're actually the biggest tool for not realising that the government are allowing you the rebellion you "have", it's controlled rebellion.

-AC

allowing is the wrong word. they cant shut everyone up. im sure they would like to control the internet. im sure they are trying

and for people who say this wont affect them

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

what you gonna do when something in this new system affects you? say'' oh well it wasnt doing anything to me at the time, i was ok''

too late

I'm actually all for them shutting people up if it genuinely quiets the conspiracy theorists, they're annoying.

-AC

Originally posted by Deano
allowing is the wrong word. they cant shut everyone up. im sure they would like to control the internet. im sure they are trying

and for people who say this wont affect them

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

I prefer Not My Business by Niyi Osundare.

Lulz at the internet being the last vestige of information freedom.

The internet is regulated by numerous bodies. It can and has been censored, see Chinese google.

If one is under the assumption that an organization exists so powerful it secretly controls and censors the collective print and television news media strictly and fabricates print and television news, that same organization should logically be assumed to secretly control and censor information on the internet.

This logical inference of course will be ignored, because it makes one feel special to be privy to secret 'leaked' information via the last vestige of information freedom 'teh internetz' that managed to bypass the big bad Illuminati Elite's control for no apparent reason.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Lulz at the internet being the last vestige of information freedom.

The internet is regulated by numerous bodies. It can and has been censored, see Chinese google.

If one is under the assumption that an organization exists so powerful it secretly controls and censors the collective print and television news media strictly and fabricates print and television news, that same organization should logically be assumed to secretly control and censor information on the internet.

This logical inference of course will be ignored, because it makes one feel special to be privy to secret 'leaked' information via the last vestige of information freedom 'teh internetz' that managed to bypass the big bad Illuminati Elite's control for no apparent reason.

Or you could just use numerous bodies who spread dis info A.K.A. payed shills. Which is alot more effective and promotes the idea of "Freedom of Information". China isn't trying to promote that idea whatsoever. So, that's a bad example.

Seriously how could you censor the internet? How can they stop people from talking about the elite when were using MSN, in chatrooms or via e-mail?!?! IMPOSSIBLE!

You could only do that by shutting down the internet completely.

Since doing that would raise many questions among the general public they have chosen to use disinfo agents.

Besides that the internet generates billions of money for the elite, think about all the payperview porn and online shops...billions of dollars business.

Are purveyors of child pornography given free reign on the internet?

The opening posts for most of the threads in this forum are usually tidbits copied and pasted from websites operated by Alex Joneses and David Ickes, usually without proper acknowledgment. The basis of your "deep discussions" on MSN, in chatrooms, via email, all derive from such websites that can easily be shut down without having to take anywhere near actions as extreme as "shutting down the internet completely" or even needing something as grand as the Great Firewall of China.

So again lulz at "teh internetz" being the last vestige of information freedom.

they cant shut it down. because that wud be fascism. and they dont want us thinking they are fascists do they? they have to make us think we are free, and that the freedoms taken away are for our own good. u see?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are purveyors of child pornography given free reign on the internet?

The opening posts for most of the threads in this forum are usually tidbits copied and pasted from websites operated by Alex Joneses and David Ickes, usually without proper acknowledgment. The basis of your "deep discussions" on MSN, in chatrooms, via email, all derive from such websites that can easily be shut down without having to take anywhere near actions as extreme as "shutting down the internet completely" or even needing something as grand as the Great Firewall of China.

So again lulz at "teh internetz" being the last vestige of information freedom.

Hahahha not true. The knowledge is attained from more sources than internet, we have books, meetings and word to mouth. The internet is just one of many ways to communicate with people you know?

About your firewall plan, impossible! How can you firewall every pc in the world? You can access the internet anytime you want using internet cafe's, libraries, friends, your work, aunties, girlfriends or neighbours etc.

So AGAIN, only by pulling the plug out of the internet could you stop it. And we all know that is never going to happen.

Originally posted by Katsu

About your firewall plan, impossible! How can you firewall every pc in the world? You can access the internet anytime you want using internet cafe's, libraries, friends, your work, aunties, girlfriends or neighbours etc.



the so called "great firewall of china" is actually a reality (officially known as the Golden shield project)...which is quite scary in itself

not to mention that there are whole countries who have banned specific websites...the old ogrish.com (now liveleak) has been banned in (if memory serves me correctly) spain and south korea because of uncencored footage is showed of beheadings in fallujah and the madrid train bombings

so the technology is there to censor whatever the controllers of servers see fit...and while there is a varying number of ISP's throughout the world...in each country...the hardware it is run through is usually commanded by one of 2 companies

Originally posted by jaden101
the so called "great firewall of china" is actually a reality (officially known as the Golden shield project)...which is quite scary in itself

not to mention that there are whole countries who have banned specific websites...the old ogrish.com (now liveleak) has been banned in (if memory serves me correctly) spain and south korea because of uncencored footage is showed of beheadings in fallujah and the madrid train bombings

so the technology is there to censor whatever the controllers of servers see fit...and while there is a varying number of ISP's throughout the world...in each country...the hardware it is run through is usually commanded by one of 2 companies

My entire post was about how The Elite could never stop the people communicating about them.

You cant censor the internet without pulling the plug. You are gullible and ignorant.

Originally posted by Katsu
My entire post was about how The Elite could never stop the people communicating about them.

You cant censor the internet without pulling the plug. You are gullible and ignorant.

yes...except for the fact that everything i posted was actual facts and everything you just said was total jibberish nonsense...kind of a recurring theme in our little exchanges

but anyway...i'll indulge you

there have actually been cases where rulers of countries have stopped information from reaching their citizens...usually to do with offensive content or in the case of some governments...information about human rights abuses perpetrated by themselves

so surely if the elite run the world...they could censor whatever they like by merely putting global bans on certain IP addresses and webistes

i'm sure...given your theories of their massive resources..that they could easily put the manpower in place to do it

Originally posted by Deano
they cant shut it down. because that wud be fascism. and they dont want us thinking they are fascists do they? they have to make us think we are free, and that the freedoms taken away are for our own good. u see? Sometimes I think you just mash at the keyboard and hope if forms semi-coherent sentences.Originally posted by Katsu
Hahahha not true. The knowledge is attained from more sources than internet, we have books, meetings and word to mouth. The internet is just one of many ways to communicate with people you know?

About your firewall plan, impossible! How can you firewall every pc in the world? You can access the internet anytime you want using internet cafe's, libraries, friends, your work, aunties, girlfriends or neighbours etc.

So AGAIN, only by pulling the plug out of the internet could you stop it. And we all know that is never going to happen. Wow, you're like a caricature.Originally posted by jaden101
there have actually been cases where rulers of countries have stopped information from reaching their citizens...usually to do with offensive content or in the case of some governments...information about human rights abuses perpetrated by themselves

so surely if the elite run the world...they could censor whatever they like by merely putting global bans on certain IP addresses and webistes

i'm sure...given your theories of their massive resources..that they could easily put the manpower in place to do it Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This logical inference of course will be ignored, because it makes one feel special to be privy to secret 'leaked' information via the last vestige of information freedom 'teh internetz' that managed to bypass the big bad Illuminati Elite's control for no apparent reason.

sometimes i think that you serve no purpose in these threads. find a new hobby

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are purveyors of child pornography given free reign on the internet?

Because Child Pornography is illegal, are Conspiracy Theory's illegal?

Originally posted by jaden101

so surely if the elite run the world...they could censor whatever they like by merely putting global bans on certain IP addresses and webistes

i'm sure...given your theories of their massive resources..that they could easily put the manpower in place to do it

But, why would they do something like that now? The alternative media is pulling a hefty sum of money right now and it's not like the elite have a real political mindset like the countries with heavy online regulation. Rather they are business men and that's the business model is what in my opinion seems to be beneficial for them. Something like heavy internet trafficing is too longterm and Overt for the elite in my opinion. At least for current Western nations, it's simply too early.

It's better to spread disinfo and promote an alternative media that tells half-truths while making their sphere of influence even bigger.
I'm sure their is some type of trafficing, but nothing heavy.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Because Child Pornography is illegal, are Conspiracy Theory's illegal? Yes. That was the purpose of the example.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Yes. That was the purpose of the example.
Strawman

Never said it was the purpose, but your analogy was poor. Especially coming from someone as intelligent as yourself.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Strawman

Never said it was the purpose, but your analogy was poor. Especially coming from someone as intelligent as yourself. If you understood the purpose of the example - to illustrate that the internet can and is censored - then the example works fine.

There are mechanisms to censor the internet.
The Illuminati apparently are apparently so pervasive that they are capable of censoring all facets of print and television media.
The Illuminati apparently are yet somehow incapable of censoring the internet, despite that it can be censored by less pervasive bodies.

Logical inconsistency.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Illuminati apparently are apparently so pervasive that they are capable of censoring all facets of print and television media.


Hahaha, where did it say that they are capable of censoring all facets of print and television media? Quote please! Stop making up things!

They control MOST of the media. Not ALL. MOST is enough to control the general public.

Do you realize that when you want to control people you only need to control the ones that matter, you can never control everything and everyone. What a stupid way of thinking!

Example: you dont need to control every journalist, just the editor of the newspaper they are working for, this method applies to all sorts of industry.

That is how you control people.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If you understood the purpose of the example - to illustrate that the internet can and is censored - then the example works fine.

There are mechanisms to censor the internet.
The Illuminati apparently are apparently so pervasive that they are capable of censoring all facets of print and television media.
The Illuminati apparently are yet somehow incapable of censoring the internet, despite that it can be censored by less pervasive bodies.

Logical inconsistency.

Well, I agree of course they can censor anything. But, read my poionts.

I mean't almost anything.

Originally posted by Katsu
Hahaha, where did it say that they are capable of censoring all facets of print and television media? Quote please! Stop making up things!

They control MOST of the media. Not ALL. MOST is enough to control the general public.

Do you realize that when you want to control people you only need to control the ones that matter, you can never control everything and everyone. What a stupid way of thinking!

Example: you dont need to control every journalist, just the editor of the newspaper they are working for, this method applies to all sorts of industry.

That is how you control people.

people cant seem to grasp this. no matter how many times u tell them

Originally posted by Katsu
Example: you dont need to control every journalist, just the editor of the newspaper they are working for, this method applies to all sorts of industry. Like how one doesn't need to control 'teh internetz' just the bodies that regulate it, and yet the big bad Illuminati still fails at that while they control all the editors and somehow manage to prevent all the journalists they don't apparently control from doing anything.

Jinkies.

Whoever thinks that the Illuminati control all journalist is a moron.

dont be too harsh on xmarks. he is just pretty clueless on how its easy to control the majority of information

Or perhaps I feel no need to fear an organization so inept as to be unable to censor the internet - the locale where you derive the majority of your "leaked" information privy only to those who aren't among the "flock"? hmm Probably makes one feel privileged. Maybe even special. Does it make you feel special, Deano?

Also, it's harder to get outlets on Broadcast TV versus the internet. The only way the average Joe can even make broadcast is buying air time from public TV and said programs air at certain times in certain zones. The internet has no such hindrances, anyone can start up a web page or a forum. And, it will accessible to anyone at any given time with less cost.

So, is it a surprise that one is harder to censor than the other.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Or perhaps I feel no need to fear an organization so inept as to be unable to censor the internet - the locale where you derive the majority of your "leaked" information privy only to those who aren't among the "flock"? hmm Probably makes one feel privileged. Maybe even special. Does it make you feel special, Deano?

How would they maintain heavy trafficking of the internet in a way that no one can object?

hmm

Originally posted by Classic NES
How would they maintain heavy trafficking of the internet in a way that no one can object?

hmm The question isn't coherent, but I'll assume the intent. How would a hypothetical "secret" organization censoring content about themselves cause a massive plummet in internet traffic?

By its very nature a "secret" organization shouldn't cause any measurable impact on internet traffic.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Also, it's harder to get outlets on Broadcast TV versus the internet. The only way the average Joe can even make broadcast is buying air time from public TV and said programs air at certain times in certain zones. The internet has no such hindrances, anyone can start up a web page or a forum. And, it will accessible to anyone at any given time with less cost.

So, is it a surprise that one is harder to censor than the other.

that logic is too much for some people to handle it seems

Originally posted by Classic NES
Also, it's harder to get outlets on Broadcast TV versus the internet. The only way the average Joe can even make broadcast is buying air time from public TV and said programs air at certain times in certain zones. The internet has no such hindrances, anyone can start up a web page or a forum. And, it will accessible to anyone at any given time with less cost.

So, is it a surprise that one is harder to censor than the other. 金盾工程

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The question isn't coherent, but I'll assume the intent. How would a hypothetical "secret" organization censoring content about themselves cause a massive plummet in internet traffic?


I already answered that, there isn't any real heavy censorship or block out of information. Quite the contrary, there is simply tons of false information being printed. I'm sure there is censorship, but it's not heavy.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot

By its very nature a "secret" organization shouldn't cause any measurable impact on internet traffic.

Your taking the concept of a secret society too literally. Obviously, it's not literaly secret because we are talking discussing it right now.

Originally posted by Deano
that logic is too much for some people to handle it seems You didn't answer my question, Deano.

Does it make you feel special, exceptional even? Does it give you a sense of purpose and power? Knowing all these little secrets that only a select few are privy to. 313Originally posted by Classic NES
Your taking the concept of a secret society too literally. Obviously, it's not literaly secret because we are talking discussing it right now. And thus, rather inept society, n'est-ce pas?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
金盾工程

Pinyin please.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Pinyin please. Golden Shield Project. Objections to there being an ability to censor the internet are moot, the internet can and has been censored.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And thus, rather inept society, n'est-ce pas?

Enough, with the Strawmans, do you know what an actual secret society is or are you playing Devils Advocate?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Golden Shield Project. Objections to there being an ability to censor the internet are moot, the internet can and has been censored.

Of course it has, but in a cladestine fashion?

Are people really unaware that China censors the internet?http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You didn't answer my question, Deano.

Does it make you feel special, exceptional even? Does it give you a sense of purpose and power? Knowing all these little secrets that only a select few are privy to. 313 And thus, rather inept society, n'est-ce pas?

when did i say i knew it all? im saying im smart enough to see the manipulation. open you eyes and you might be able to see it yourself.

all truth goes through three stages remember

Originally posted by Classic NES
Enough, with the Strawmans, do you know what an actual secret society is or are you playing Devils Advocate? That wasn't a strawman, that was my perception phrased as a question.

Devil's Advocate? Perhaps. I'm definitely playing, but may not be playing that.Originally posted by Classic NES
Of course it has, but in a cladestine fashion?

Are people really unaware that China censors the internet?http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif The same mechanisms can be imployed "in a clandestine fashion." Cookie monster rocks.

Originally posted by Deano
when did i say i knew it all? im saying im smart enough to see the manipulation. open you eyes and you might be able to see it yourself.

all truth goes through three stages remember I didn't say you said you knew it all. I said you're hypothetically privy to secret knowledge, then questioned you on how that makes you feel.

Nicely dodged. Unless you're saying it makes you feel smart then? Being privy to secret knowledge?

This is actually more pertinent to the thread topic at hand anyway.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That wasn't a strawman, that was my perception phrased as a question.



Even though I just explained that a"Secret Society" isn't really a Secret?
It's just a term, nothing really litteral.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The same mechanisms can be imployed "in a clandestine fashion." Cookie monster rocks.

Maybe with a pretext. . .

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I didn't say you said you knew it all. I said you're hypothetically privy to secret knowledge, then questioned you on how that makes you feel.

Nicely dodged. Unless you're saying it makes you feel smart then? Being privy to secret knowledge?

This is actually more pertinent to the thread topic at hand anyway.

what you ranting on about? nothing is secret because there comes a time where the conspiracy gets pushed into reality. connect the dots and see for yourself.

being more aware of whats going on around me does not make me feel smart.

when you have researchers like david icke and alex jones saying for the last 15 years about there is going to be microchips implanted in our skins,(and people laughed, as they always do) , you have to start sitting up and taking note as the microchip is being advanced all the time. its only a matter of time before its introduced, and people will think its for there own good. when in fact its been predicted all along.. whos laughing now?

predicting the future is easy when you know the agenda.

Dont know if there is something to worry about or not-- but someone somewhere wants us all to be worried. Have they lost something and cant get it back , therefore no one else should have it.
Is that something,happiness/contentment.Jealousy caused all the hubbub in the garden of eden
Some jealously want and others jealously guard
NON CARBORUNDUM

If you think that America is free of conspiracies, horrible ones at that, then you must be feral, raised in a cage, in the attic.

Originally posted by Akuma Killer
If you think that America is free of conspiracies, horrible ones at that, then you must be feral, raised in a cage, in the attic.

The Matrix. They were raised in The Matrix. They cant help it. They are just following the white rabbit.