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Lets say that the Empire won at Endor. That the rebel fleet was crushed, and the ground forces were slaughtered, and the Alliance fell apart. Palpatine killed Luke and Vader remained his apprentice. The Death Star II's construction was completed, and the Empire continued to build its other super weapons such as the two Eclipse class star dreadnoughts.

With this in mind, lets the say the Vong still invaded when they did. Do you think they would have been as successful as they were in conquering the galaxy, or would the military oriented Empire under the strong control of Palpatine be able to repel the invasion easier than the much less militaristic New Republic?

Yes. The Vong themselves conclude as much. The Empire curbstomps them.

Vong get wtf pwned.

The Empire kills them. After all, if the New Republic/Galactic Alliance could beat them, the Empire could win a lot faster and with less loss of life. Grand Admiral Thrawn knew the Vong were coming (Kinman Doriana warned him in Outbound Flight) and that's why he tried to restore the Empire: he knew they'd stand a better chance. The Empire should have won at Endor, anyway.

Here's a thought: If both of them won, who would fight the Vong better: Palpatine's Empire, or Thrawn's Empire with Palpatine's fleets? I'd think Thrawn, he wasn't blinded by things that Palpatine was. Plus he's a great mastermind and has Captain Pellaeon, another one of the best officers, at his side.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
Here's a thought: If both of them won, who would fight the Vong better: Palpatine's Empire, or Thrawn's Empire with Palpatine's fleets? I'd think Thrawn, he wasn't blinded by things that Palpatine was. Plus he's a great mastermind and has Captain Pellaeon, another one of the best officers, at his side.

Palpatine's because Thrawn was apart of it Plus he would have these thing since the empire would have won. TheDeath Star II, The Eclipse dreadnoughts,Executor,Sun Crusher,World Devastators , Galaxy Gun, more troops,one Darth Vader and he himself is an advantage . His force storms would still work on vong ships right?

Edit: Even if Thrawn had the same fleets the (Palp's) empire would benefit from Vader and Palpatine.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Palpatine's because Thrawn was apart of it Plus he would have these thing since the empire would have won. TheDeath Star II, The Eclipse dreadnoughts,Executor,Sun Crusher,World Devastators , Galaxy Gun, more troops,one Darth Vader and he himself is an advantage. His force storms would still work on vong ships right?

Edit: Even if Thrawn had the same fleets the (Palp's) empire would benefit from Vader and Palpatine.

True, though Vader and Palpatine were blinded by petty desires (like trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side) while Thrawn was clear in his plans, with no strange little sacrificing half your fleet to turn one person to the Dark Side. And even though Thrawn was part of Palp's Empire, he wouldn't be in command like he would in his own Empire. To quote Pellaeon: "Here, under the greatest military mind the Empire had ever seen.", meaning that having the greatest military mind (Thrawn) in charge might work better than having Palpatine and his little let's-kill-half-of-our-own-guys-so-we-can-possibly-turn-Luke-to-the-Dark-Side and Vader with his kill-everyone-that-opposes-me-even-if-they're-a-good-asset attitudes in charge. Good thought about Force Storms, though. Since the ships and biots of the Vong all were touched by the Force (I think) it would probably work on them.

Plus, Thrawn would have the Death Star II, Eclipses, Sun Crusher, World Devastators, Galaxy Gun, etc. under his own "brilliant" command.
These are just my views, though. You're probably right, but, hey, I've got nothing better to do right now than type on this forum. I must have contributed to about 10 different posts now...but oh well.

Turning Luke to the dark side is petty? Just think about this for a second. We know how powerful Luke becomes later on, now imagine all that power working for the Empire. Luke would be an excellent Grand Inquisitor or other dark sider of the Empire

The thing I like better about Palp's empire is because they have 3 people who are fully capable of leading the empire-Vader,Palps. and Thrawn (an argument can be made for Palleon) With this many great leaders Palpatine could spread them across the galaxy each with a substantial fleet and each with their own superweapon. Because none of them can be at all the battles that would occur. And for the record Luke is worth a lot to sidious plus another reason for the trap was to eliminate the rebels not just capture Luke. Another thing I believe would be beneficial is battle meditation which Thrawn made a comment about if Sidious was using it at Endor in "Heir to the Empire."

I'd have to agree here. Turning Luke to the DS isn't what I'd call "petty." Even with an extremely small amount of training, he was managing to come out of scraps with Vader (Jedi for thirteen years, Sith for about twenty, depending on exactly which encounter we're talking about) more or less in one piece (Save for an obvious exception). Even if Vader wasn't giving it his all, it's impressive that Luke could even stand up against him at all.

Then look at him a few decades down the line. With his power, and the proper training, I could easily see Palpatine (Or Vader, if he and Luke killed Palps) taking him as an apprentice.

Wasn't it Admiral Ackbar who finally came up with the correct strategy for defeating the Vong though? Can we assume he died at Endor, and THAT brilliant military mind ceased to be a resource?

I was just thinking about this, and didn't want to start a new thread if one already existed so I'm just gonna use the argument that the empire would defeat the Yuuzhan Vong to talk about just how destructive the Empire really was.

K, so in space, they had an incredible number of ships. Some of these were star destroyers, super star destroyers, dreadnaughts, and so on. These ships packed enough firepower to turn entire planets to rubble within, I'm willing to say hours.

The Yuuzhan Vong ships are powerful, but they're not capable of out-fighting the Empire's size, numbers, and firepower.

As far as superweapons are concerned, The empire still takes the cake. The Death Star, Sun Crusher, World Devastators, Galaxy Gun, D'vouran, and the entire Chiss Ascendency.

Dovin Basal is a powerful Yuuzhan Vong weapon, but nothing the Yuuzhan Vong have can handle the sheer firepower of the Empire, and ultimately, the Empirical superweapons can also cause more damage.

Some people have argued that the Vong would decimate the empirical stormtroopers in battle, since they're more destructive and more capable of taking damage, and without Jedi, there would be very little that could defeat them, but I think those people underestimate the sheer number and power of the empire's soldiers.

There are endless numbers of regular stormtroopers, Phase III Dark troopers, Triumphant-class dark troopers, Black Hole dark troopers, Exogen-class dark trooper, Dark novatroopers, Glory-class dark troopers, Inquisitorium dark troopers, Purge troopers, Imperial Elite guard, novatroopers, Riot troopers, shadow stormtroopers, shadowtroopers, shock troopers, Storm commandos, The Royal guards, Sovereign protectors, Imperial shadow guard, Imperial Senate guard, Imperial Senate Sentinals, and Scout troopers.

And they can just hire bounty hunters.

Those are just the troopers and guards. The Empire also has force users, such as The Emperor's hands, The Emperor's Reach, The Emperor's Voice, THe Emperor's Eyes, The Inquisitorius, The Dark Side Elite, and the Prophets of the Dark Side. That many force users, while not as effective as Jedi, are still close enough in my opinion to be able to take on the Yuuzhan Vong the way the Jedi of the New Order did.

The empire also has walkers, which should be helpful in combat on planets.

There's also Project Starscream, which gave the empire the technology to reanimate corpses into zombies, create a plague as a biological weapon, a machine which steals the Force from force users, something which can turn people into wraiths which aren't alive, but not quite dead either, and an "army of terror" with hundreds, if not thousands of soldiers who were as hard to kill as Gen'Dai, could change form at will, were almost immune to the force, and use the enemy's greatest fears to haunt them. So yeah.

Top that with Admiral Thrawn, Darth Vader, and Palpatine's Force powers, and you've got yourself a victory against the Yuuzhan Vong.

This was already admitted by the Vong that they would have lost from what I recall.

Sidious was planning for the Vong ever since around the time of the Clone Wars, or well a little before it.

That's cool and all, but I'm just really impressed at all the powers the empire had. This was basically just an excuse to list out the military might of the Empire in Legends. I mean can you believe the kinds of weapons they had?

Fleets capable of destroying planets, 4 superweapons, 21 different types of super stormtroopers to add to the already endless number of stormtroopers, 7 factions of powerful darkside users, many different types of tanks which cannot be defeated by conventional methods, and all the horrors of project starscream.

Their one weakness, the inability to employ unconventional tacts, has been rendered null because of their ability to hire bounty hunters. That's how they managed to trick the rebels in ESB.

That's just really incredible to think about, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Zentrex
That's cool and all, but I'm just really impressed at all the powers the empire had. This was basically just an excuse to list out the military might of the Empire in Legends. I mean can you believe the kinds of weapons they had?

Fleets capable of destroying planets, 4 superweapons, 21 different types of super stormtroopers to add to the already endless number of stormtroopers, 7 factions of powerful darkside users, many different types of tanks which cannot be defeated by conventional methods, and all the horrors of project starscream.

Their one weakness, the inability to employ unconventional tacts, has been rendered null because of their ability to hire bounty hunters. That's how they managed to trick the rebels in ESB.

That's just really incredible to think about, in my opinion.

There's a lot more tbh.

The Empire is one of the best explored/elaborated factions within the SWU if not the best faction, it's pretty much got all its bases covered and they did have unconventional tactics within their SF divisions such as with their Storm Commandos, Royal Guards and so on.

The only other faction that comes close is the Rebel Alliance as far as being explored/elaborated on...but then this isn't too much a surprise since both the GE and RA were the first two and practically only factions for the better part of SW history.

So the galactic empire were too strong for invasion, but the New Republic wasn't?

What's the point of tech again?

Originally posted by truejedi
Wasn't it Admiral Ackbar who finally came up with the correct strategy for defeating the Vong though? Can we assume he died at Endor, and THAT brilliant military mind ceased to be a resource?

Yeah. that too. TNR has to be really incompetent if they're getting outdone by the GE.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yeah. that too. TNR has to be really incompetent if they're getting outdone by the GE. The government of TNR as of 25ABY is possibly the most incompenent government in SW lol.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
So the galactic empire were too strong for invasion, but the New Republic wasn't?

What's the point of tech again?



Yeah. that too. TNR has to be really incompetent if they're getting outdone by the GE.

The New Republic was smaller and less organized than the GE. Also yeah, incompetent, but then that just goes hand in hand with the afore mentioned and how is getting outdone by the GE a bad thing when the New Republic was fairly new in getting started?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
The New Republic was smaller and less organized than the GE. Also yeah, incompetent, but then that just goes hand in hand with the afore mentioned and how is getting outdone by the GE a bad thing when the New Republic was fairly new in getting started?
How new? Hadn't they already gone through shadowspawd, de, thrawn, captain pelleon?

The ge wasn't really young too. And the GE didn't have access to the technological progress, or the public support the nr had.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
How new? Hadn't they already gone through shadowspawd, de, thrawn, captain pelleon?

The ge wasn't really young too. And the GE didn't have access to the technological progress, or the public support the nr had.

Correction on my part(not too detailed on post-ROTJ material), yeah the NR wasn't really new by the Vong War. Thought it had been much sooner. Although the NR allowed the Vong to just come in and take over unprotected worlds and enslave as many as they wanted at first. The Vong essentially just ran over the NR forces because they were being stupid, they nearly lost their entire Defense Forces.

Far as tech goes? Yeah sure, the GE didn't have the tech the NR had but then the NR didn't have the technology the GE have either, but because they weren't as ruthless and wanting all these crazy death dealing super weapons and what not.

Which as I see might be the clincher in the whole thing with the Vong, along with not being as big as the Imperial Fleet.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
So the galactic empire were too strong for invasion, but the New Republic wasn't?

What's the point of tech again?



Yeah. that too. TNR has to be really incompetent if they're getting outdone by the GE.
No, the New Republic wasn't. I just listed out all the powers the Galactic Empire had. It outmaches both the New Republic and Krayt's empire.

Personally, I'd really like to see an animation (possibly in the form of the "TIE fighter" short film) of the a war between the Yuuzhan Vong and the Empire. The Yuuzhan Vong tearing through leagues of storm troopers, the imperial navy unleashing its full power on the Vong Warships. It sounds incredible.

Originally posted by Zentrex
No, the New Republic wasn't. I just listed out all the powers the Galactic Empire had. It outmaches both the New Republic and Krayt's empire.

Personally, I'd really like to see an animation (possibly in the form of the "TIE fighter" short film) of the a war between the Yuuzhan Vong and the Empire. The Yuuzhan Vong tearing through leagues of storm troopers, the imperial navy unleashing its full power on the Vong Warships. It sounds incredible.

Eh I wouldn't say the GE outmatches both the NR and KE entirely, in some areas yes, but in others it does fall short.

In what ways, exactly?

Originally posted by Zentrex
In what ways, exactly?

In size and competence I'll grant you the Empire has that in spades, though again I'm not too deep into post-ROTJ material so I'm unsure if either the NR or KE have any notable tacticians/leaders apart from the very obvious.


But I'm recalling that both factions do have some better ships and starfighters. Ground vehicles, KE do have that much better armored and more powerful AT-AT(the AT-AHT).

There's also the Predator-class starfighter which can be mass produced like the standard TIE Fighter only having shielding and a hyperdrive.

There's also of course the Pellaeon class Star Destroyers, then later the Imperious class.

But this all the top of my head.

I see what you're saying. I still think the Empire has more assets which are destuctive, although Krayt's empire has technology which is futuristic to the Empire.

Galactic Empire outmatches New Republic because of size predominantly. However, the tech of New Republic is better, the starships are of a higher, better level. New Class Modernization Program was an entire campaign designed to completely upgrade the Defense Force. While I don't think giant tons of starfighters costing literally 1 000 000 000 000 of credits were turned to scrap, and rather, they just added in the new ships to the existing force while sending the oldest ones to more menial duties, there were many years after the program's commission, so the replacements were probably pretty massive, and the fleet was simply of a higher technical level.

However, New Republic leadership by 25 ABY was quite possibly the worst ever. Government was weak, corrupted, incompetent. While they followed the democracy and live was all good, the quality of leadership to deal with the invasion was the worst you could imagine. Coordination of cross-planetary defenses was null. Communication was terrible. Nothing bad in a peaceful time, all the planets actually obviously prefer to live on their own, but in the face of invasion the massive incompetency was a disaster. Galactic Empire was enormously controlled, tight and coordinated and operated coherently on a galactic scale with full coordination. The comparison is insane.

Then you have to remember that New Republic is the result of the giant war between Rebel Alliance and the Empire. While Palpatine's death resulted in the regional Moffs defending their own areas, and the Rebel Alliance just going star-system after star-system beating the Empire, it was still huge. Losses were immense. Then you have the Yevetha, Thrawn, Second Imperium etc. - and these wars were a threat of that scale only because of how shattered the galaxy was. It was a fresh rebuild. New Republic never had the time to build a force even slightly as large as that of the Empire.

The tech advantage of NR won't make the cut, when you just have 1/3 of the fleet of GE. Especially with terrible leadership.

Krayt's Empire is another story. The tech difference is many, many times larger, and it was built directly off Fel's Empire, which had dozens of years to build its strengths. As far as leadership and size goes, GE is still probably easily superior, but tech differences make up for it. Having dozens of trained superhuman Sith Lords with Force precog and an ability to infiltrate anything anywhere helps too.

when was the nr at it's peak? did it ever surpass the ge after the vong war?

JKBart I don't know if the new technology entirely makes up for it. The empire, specifically in the event of a Vong invasion, had immense firepower. The wealth and incessant need for destruction also helped. I think just the sheer amount of destructive force the empire had access to, outlined in my first post on this thread, would have out-matched the firepower of any other empire. That's not to say Krayt's empire would lose a war against the Galactic Empire, I don't think it would, but just in terms of sheer firepower, the empire had lots of horrors at its disposal.

{edit}

Wrong thread.