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Pick a single Celestial (any).
This is Post Retcon Beyonder

Pretty sure the Celestials are above the Post-Retcon Beyonder, as he/she is a manifestation of a Cosmic Cube.

Scathan, Tiamut, Arishem or Exitar FTW

Post retcon, the one that was defeated by Kubik???

If this is the Beyonder you are thinking of id369 any single Celestial can defeat him.

Post-Bulls**t I mean post-retcon, any of the celestials would beat him.

Originally posted by id369

Pick a single Celestial (any).
This is Post Retcon Beyonder
Spite.

Especially considering what we just discussed.

Do you though.

How powerful is current Beyonder?

Originally posted by Mindset

How powerful is current Beyonder?
He's embodies an entire Universe, where he is Omnipotent (below a Celestial)

He has Multiversal influence, but not in the simultaneous sense,
meaning he was able to cross UniverseS affecting each individually.

Until Eternity and the LT put a stop to that,
and sealed him in his own Universe.

How is it that Beyonder is at Eternity's level but is below a celestial?

Originally posted by guy222
Scathan, Tiamut, Arishem or Exitar FTW

Originally posted by King Kandy

How is it that Beyonder is at Eternity's level but is below a celestial?
Beyonder may be at/or posssibly/slightly above the level of an aspect of Eternity, (single Universe)
but he is no way near Eternity's level. (the infinite Multiverse)

Although single Universes are referred to as Eternity
(them sharing the same consciousness and all)
they are in truth just pieces of the totality.

So? Even an aspect is above a celestial.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So? Even an aspect is above a celestial.
Not over 616 Celestials, that's for sure.

Eternity Aspects are above Celestial 616 counter-parts though, that's for sure.
As they should be.

Every Aspect of Eternity is "supposed" to be,
the most powerful entity within the respective Universe they embody.
But as you know, there's always those anomalies of power that surface,
and somehow rise above the Universe they reside in.

So...

Beyonder > most Celestials? >_>

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not over 616 Celestials, that's for sure.

Eternity Aspects are above Celestial 616 counter-parts though, that's for sure.
As they should be.

Every Aspect of Eternity is "supposed" to be,
the most powerful entity within the respective Universe they embody.
But as you know, there's always those anomalies of power that surface,
and somehow rise above the Universe they reside in.
Okay, perhaps I should say that the 616 universe aspect is above celestials, and Beyonder is around it's level.

Originally posted by Mindset
So...

Beyonder > most Celestials? >_>
You know, to be totaly honest, that's the way it should read.
Based on the fact that Post-Retcon Beyonder is atleast equal to an Aspect of Eternity.

Yes, Beyonder should be above alternate Celestials.

Although I prefer to investigate this before making it an official claim that came from me.
Cause Cube beings simply haven't battled alternate Celestials,
so I would have to look into my collection, see what alternates are capable of,
gauge that against what I know Beyonder can do,
and then a sound decision can be made.

But I don't like making claims without proof.

But again, logic makes me agree with you.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, perhaps I should say that the 616 universe aspect is above celestials,
and Beyonder is around it's level.
Nah we can't say that,
you know 616 Eternity/Infinity posses the power of the Prime Multiverse K.

616 Celestials are far beyond Cube beings.
It's just not in their character to go around crashing Universes,
or altering reality on said scales.
In fact, as we know, Eternity created the Celestials for a prupose,
they literally nurture the Universe with life.

What's interesting is this,
Celestials created Mankind,
and one day,
Mankind will rule everything in the Cosmos.
Hence, the vision of the LT and company bowing to the Stranger,
because the Stranger wanted to become, what Humans were destined to be.

What I would like to furhter investigate is,
who are the Celestials in that Universe Doom passed by?

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8453/84635978vk3.th.jpg

Is this where the 616 Celestials are produced?

Or this where all Celestials are born?

Or this a completely separate set of Celestials neither connected to 616 or alternates?

Can you prove that the non-616 celestials are weaker then the 616 ones?

Question is The Stranger above Celestial level?

I like the idea of attempting to iron out comic heirarchies and metaphysics but, much like the abrahamic faiths... there is no essential logic... it's made up by minds just about smart enough to engage us but not enough to make coherent such phenomenally expansive and intricate perpetually expanding and evolving narratives.


k, just wanted to get that out there .

Beyonder is a half Comic Cube, Kubik is an entire Cosmic Cube and a Celestial is infinitely more powerful than Kubik.

Congratulations for telling us everything we already knew.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Can you prove that the non-616 celestials are weaker then the 616 ones?
I believe I can.

Just look at all the trouble the Earth X Celestials had to go through,
in their attempt to conquer other Realities,
they had to place a Celestial embryo in every bio-Planet in separate Realities,
in order to begin cracking verses.

One 616 Celestial surely should've been able to destroy an entire alternate Universe,
especially when we know they are far above Cube beings,
who you've seen with your own eyes performing Universal feats.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Question is The Stranger above Celestial level?
That is a good question,
and while the Stranger had a chance to become part of the LT,
he still has not performed Universal feats (and that's a bad guy-at times)
The Stranger was able to teleport a Planet from another Multiverse into the Prime Multiverse,
which is impressive.

Originally posted by Astner

Beyonder is a half Comic Cube, Kubik is an entire Cosmic Cube
and a Celestial is infinitely more powerful than Kubik.
ActuallyBeyonder was half a Cube,
he became whole after merging with MM.

Then Beyonder and MM separated,
but both retained their completeness.

MM on the otherhand,
is far more powerful than Beyonder,
because of his Human origin, his potential is virtually limitless.

The LT called Post-Retcon MM one of the most powerful being in all Creation.

Indeed, when he fought Post-Retcon Beyonder,
Reality withIN Realities across all of Marvel's creation were warped.

I would put a Celestial above the Stranger

Originally posted by guy222
I would put a Celestial above the Stranger I would too...but you never know with the Stranger...how have u been guy?

Doin good, my friend

Always good to see u

Stranger is an interesting character. I liked his showing in Beyond

Originally posted by Mr Master
ActuallyBeyonder was half a Cube,
he became whole after merging with MM.

Then Beyonder and MM separated,
but both retained their completeness.

MM on the otherhand,
is far more powerful than Beyonder,
because of his Human origin, his potential is virtually limitless.

The LT called Post-Retcon MM one of the most powerful being in all Creation.

Indeed, when he fought Post-Retcon Beyonder,
Reality withIN Realities across all of Marvel's creation were warped. Okay, I'm really confused.

Didn't the Beyonder eventually become the Maker, whom Thanos battled and imprisoned during his Samaritan mini? The same character was later rendered essentially dead by the assault of the Annihilation Wave on the Kyln. Is that not who we're talking about here?

I'm sorry, the Celestials don't seem any more powerful than any of the other Astral Gods IMO. They can't beat Galactus and IIRC Thor craked their armor w/ Mjolnir.

Beyonder is originally depicted as >or = to Eternity.

However,"New" Beyonder would probably win this.

Beyonder was originally depicted >>>>>>>All marvel cosmics

Originally posted by guy222
Doin good, my friend

Always good to see u

Stranger is an interesting character. I liked his showing in Beyond Stranger is intersting and underused on the cosmic scene...I would like to see him do something really bad ass or be a major player in a cosmic x-over.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Question is The Stranger above Celestial level?

Here this might help, in ranking the Stranger.
Beyond! #6
Stranger seems awfully interested to know if the Uatu will interfere.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7421/beyond06page15fe3.th.jpghttp://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3694/beyond06page16vi0.th.jpghttp://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9123/beyond06page23pb1.th.jpg

He has also faught the Watchers

I like the way the Watcher is drawn in Beyond, he does not look so um deformed.

Originally posted by Mr Marvel
I'm sorry, the Celestials don't seem any more powerful than any of the other Astral Gods IMO. They can't beat Galactus and IIRC Thor craked their armor w/ Mjolnir.

Beyonder is originally depicted as >or = to Eternity.

However,"New" Beyonder would probably win this.

Which Celestial can't beat Galactus

Scathan the Approver(Earth-691)=LT is the most powerful Celestial ever. Scathan=LT>Eternity=Death>Galactus

Tiamut the Dreaming Celestial is the baddest Celestial(Earth-616). According to Thena, "he's the most dangerous thing on Earth" Tiamut speaking thru Makkari, "he's God"

Galactus vs billions of Celestials. Celestials>Galactus

Oh yes, Celestials>Beyonder

Originally posted by id369
I like the way the Watcher is drawn in Beyond, he does not look so um deformed.

Great art

Originally posted by Acrosurge

Didn't the Beyonder eventually become the Maker, whom Thanos battled and imprisoned during his Samaritan mini? The same character was later rendered essentially dead by the assault of the Annihilation Wave on the Kyln. Is that not who we're talking about here?
That was the extremely limited version of the Beyonder,
weak/insane and vulnerable because it took mortal form:

Thanos admitted this:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4551/makernotdeadej3.th.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6416/makernotdead0bl8.th.jpg

Infact, the reaon why Thanos didn't kill the Maker was out of fear,
he did not want for the real Beyonder to escape that body.

.........................................................................................................


In order to keep the essence of the Beyonder in prisoned within the Maker:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6118/makernotdead1wg7.th.jpg

"The Mind is Dead...Do NOT kill the body"

.........................................................................................................


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5114/makernotdead3gm3.th.jpg

"a Living Prison"

"The ONLY prison capable of containing the Beyonder... it's essence"

.........................................................................................................


http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9929/makernotdead2bn5.th.jpg

"had we killed the Maker Form ... the prisoner goes free"

"We would of ENABLED the thing we'd sought to prevent"

.........................................................................................................

(the destruction of the Universe that is)

.........................................................................................................


Am I lying?

That the Maker could have imploded the Universe on a whim if it had not gone mad.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3595/maker3ho5.th.jpg

"She could decide to reverse the Crunch on a whim, set the Universe to contracting"

.........................................................................................................

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/666/maker2bu1.th.jpg

"Beyonder ... Unlimited power"

Originally posted by guy222
Which Celestial can't beat Galactus

Scathan the Approver(Earth-691)=LT is the most powerful Celestial ever. Scathan=LT>Eternity=Death>Galactus

Tiamut the Dreaming Celestial is the baddest Celestial(Earth-616). According to Thena, "he's the most dangerous thing on Earth" Tiamut speaking thru Makkari, "he's God"

Galactus vs billions of Celestials. Celestials>Galactus

Oh yes, Celestials>Beyonder

Well if you take into account the 6 issue mini of Eternals. Tiamut took on the Rest of the Host of Celestials by himself. They could not destroy him, but he was overwhelmed and imprisoned. That is badass.

Original arc

2nd Celestial Host used "The Weapon". When he returned, 12 eyes made him aware of his crime

He came back in full glory in Gaiman's 7 issue run

Baddest Celestial(Earth-616)

Its a flashback scene, I believe in Eternals Vol 1 #13

I have to remember the issue when he was made aware of his crime. Its in FF

Lil helper here. (Imageshack is a being a *****), I have the scan. Uatu seemed powerless when the Monolith Gatherer arrived

Originally posted by id369
Here this might help, in ranking the Stranger.
Beyond! #6
Stranger seems awfully interested to know if the Uatu will interfere.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7421/beyond06page15fe3.th.jpghttp://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3694/beyond06page16vi0.th.jpghttp://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9123/beyond06page23pb1.th.jpg When i first saw that i kept thinking is he afraid of Uatu? I guess i won't know anytime soon thanks for the answers guys.

He apparently had the power to slay Uatu, and he says he could, and then remarks on him fighting Watchers before... srug

Originally posted by Mr Master
I believe I can.

Just look at all the trouble the Earth X Celestials had to go through,
in their attempt to conquer other Realities,
they had to place a Celestial embryo in every bio-Planet in separate Realities,
in order to begin cracking verses.

One 616 Celestial surely should've been able to destroy an entire alternate Universe,
especially when we know they are far above Cube beings,
who you've seen with your own eyes performing Universal feats.

And yet a Celestial can exist at multiply places at the same time isn't it also possible that it's the same Celestials just working with different duties then what they are doing in the 616???

Originally posted by Utrigita

And yet a Celestial can exist at multiply places at the same time isn't it also possible that it's the same Celestials just working with different duties then what they are doing in the 616???
I don't hink that's possible Ut.

Celestials have never been known to possess omni-presence across separate Universes.

We do know that they possess some sort of omni-presence but withIN 616's Universe.
Remember,
it was Thor that commented on that, how the host had been in Asgard,
withIN the same 50 years they judged Pangoria (withIN 616)

So at best,
this tells us the Celestials have atleast some omni-presence,
across pocket dimensions withIN one Universe.