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who do u think

Venom.

Don't we already have one of these? Or 10?

15 I think.

Green Goblin, no contest. At all. Nobody has scarred, beaten, mentally broken, and hurt Peter as much as Norman has. He's killed Gwen Stacey, killed Ben Reilly, "killed" Aunt May, made numerous other Goblins, almost destroyed New York City more times than I can count, corrupted Harry Osborn, crippled Flash Thompson, destroyed the Daily Bugle, and even beaten and carried Peter's unconcious(sp?) body to the underworld, where Spider-Man laid helpless and a broken man. And I haven't even listed one decade of his damage, let alone the fact that he's been kicking about for at least 25-30 years.

Venom's terrifying, Dr. Octopus is dangerous, and Green Goblin II is insane, but nobody has ruined Pete from the inside out quite like Norman.

Actually it has been proven by Spider-Man himself the only villain he is scared of is Venom, GG may have upset him but Spidy has never feared him, Venom scares Spider-Man and thats enough to make him a serious threat.

Originally posted by Toku King
Green Goblin, no contest. At all. Nobody has scarred, beaten, mentally broken, and hurt Peter as much as Norman has. He's killed Gwen Stacey, killed Ben Reilly, "killed" Aunt May, made numerous other Goblins, almost destroyed New York City more times than I can count, corrupted Harry Osborn, crippled Flash Thompson, destroyed the Daily Bugle, and even beaten and carried Peter's unconcious(sp?) body to the underworld, where Spider-Man laid helpless and a broken man. And I haven't even listed one decade of his damage, let alone the fact that he's been kicking about for at least 25-30 years.

Venom's terrifying, Dr. Octopus is dangerous, and Green Goblin II is insane, but nobody has ruined Pete from the inside out quite like Norman. So true

Venom is a cool villain. But there are no other villains which have been on the level Norman is.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/Darkhalen/AmazingSpider-Man122-00.jpg
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Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Actually it has been proven by Spider-Man himself the only villain he is scared of is Venom, GG may have upset him but Spidy has never feared him, Venom scares Spider-Man and thats enough to make him a serious threat.

Actually, that's not true. Whoever said that or wrote that is merely glorifying Venom.
I have an issue where Spider-Man was beaten so badly by GG, that he was terrified of even his own shadow.
Finally, he overcame his fear and won, only to be even more terrified at the fact that Norman reminded him of one key fact: He knew Spider-Man's life.

I remember that when he tried to make him his heir, yet the next time they meet he goes back to being, oh it's goblin, in many different issues Spidy is uncomfortable around Venom, and often tries to run and hide.

Did you see the scans BTW.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
I remember that when he tried to make him his heir, yet the next time they meet he goes back to being, oh it's goblin, in many different issues Spidy is uncomfortable around Venom, and often tries to run and hide.

Did you see the scans BTW.

I own the comic.

In fact, I own 90% of the comics involving both characters in the Spidey mythos, and Spider-Man doesn't hide from Venom. Like, ever. He's cautious, and goes into battle absolutely prepared for anything, and has indeed tried to get away from Venom, but he never went "OMG um soo scurred!"
In a title of Marvel Presents Spider-Man, however, he lost to Green Goblin so horribly that he quit being Spider-Man until he regained his courage to put back on the costume.

Don't play with me, the second fight with Venom he ran away, I like how you tried to boast you have 90% of every Spider-Man comics, like people don't have the same collection or just download them, would you like a medal for all that "hard" work.

The reason I am laying into you so much is because how you just spoke to me, using manners and being civil is often the best method of communication.

I remember making a "Top 15 Spider-Man Villains" list on CBR.
The list was:
15) Mysterio
14) Scorpion
13) Electro
12) Jackal
11) J. Jonah Jameson
10) Kingpin
9) Morlun
8) Carnage
7) The Lizard
6) Hobgoblin
5) Green Goblin II
4) Sandman
3) Dr. Octopus
2) Venom
1) Green Goblin

Here's the link: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=178842

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Don't play with me, the second fight with Venom he ran away, I like how you tried to boast you have 90% of every Spider-Man comics, like people don't have the same collection or just download them, would you like a medal for all that "hard" work.

The reason I am laying into you so much is because how you just spoke to me, using manners and being civil is often the best method of communication.

He didn't "run away". He was trying to stay away from Venom until he knew how to win.
And how was I being anything BUT civil? Heck, in that post, you sound ruder than I ever was.

Mysterio should be higher.

Nice to see someone finally put Jameson on a list, Kingpin is a daredevil villain not a Spider-Man one so that does not count.

Green Goblin 2 and sandman in those places, not for me, still good list.

However it is you, I asked did you see the pics that was all what did you say: I own 90% comics, as if being abrasive and in a who cares I have the issues sort of way, I was just asking then you getting all snidely.

Edit: on a side note the Kangeroo II lol.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Mysterio should be higher.

Electro and Scorpion have done more damage than Mysterio by far.



He first appeared in Spider-Man comics, has appeared in more Spidey comics than daredevil comics, and Kingpin shot Aunt May.
He absolutely counts.



Dude, Harry made Peter fall on the floor and deny his own existence. And Sandman has almost killed him numerous times, and has even put the world in jeapordy. They completely deserve their places.



I was stating a fact.

I don't care for Harry Osborne at all.

It doesn't matter if you care. He was a major threat as a villain.

Not really never could live up to his father...

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Not really never could live up to his father...

Pick up the 'Son Of The Green Goblin' TPB. He made Peter cry. CRY.

Wow that is pretty badass, is that when he gets killed off?

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Wow that is pretty badass, is that when he gets killed off?

No. That's when Spider-Man yells at Mary Jane after realizing that Harry has completely boxed him in. No matter where he went, what he did, or what he said, Harry was there on his Glider reminding him that he new everything there was to know about Peter.

Ahh yes I remember that, there were some great tales back in the old days, shame it all went downhill turn of the new millennium.

Originally posted by Toku King
Green Goblin, no contest. At all. Nobody has scarred, beaten, mentally broken, and hurt Peter as much as Norman has. He's killed Gwen Stacey, killed Ben Reilly, "killed" Aunt May, made numerous other Goblins, almost destroyed New York City more times than I can count, corrupted Harry Osborn, crippled Flash Thompson, destroyed the Daily Bugle, and even beaten and carried Peter's unconcious(sp?) body to the underworld, where Spider-Man laid helpless and a broken man. And I haven't even listed one decade of his damage, let alone the fact that he's been kicking about for at least 25-30 years.

Venom's terrifying, Dr. Octopus is dangerous, and Green Goblin II is insane, but nobody has ruined Pete from the inside out quite like Norman.
I agree. Even if Spidey isn't afraid of goblin, he is sure as hell afraid of what goblin is capable of. Goblin wins no contest.

It doesn't matter if Spidey is afraid of Venom. I'm sure people in horror movies are afraid of whatever it is thats after them, but they face it regardless. You can aply the same purpose to Venom.

I guess since Goblin killed Gwen...Spider-Man sees that he could do anything he wants to him.

Originally posted by Toku King
He didn't "run away". He was trying to stay away from Venom until he knew how to win.
And how was I being anything BUT civil? Heck, in that post, you sound ruder than I ever was.

Actually Spiderman IS affraid of Venom and he did run away. He faked his own death and left Venom on some deserted island. He left because he was affraid of Venom, he admitted it himself.

As for the greatest enemy, it really is Green Goblin, because while Venom simply wants to kill Peter, Goblin wants to ruin Pete's life.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Actually Spiderman IS affraid of Venom and he did run away. He faked his own death and left Venom on some deserted island. He left because he was affraid of Venom, he admitted it himself.

Exactly what I said...

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Exactly what I said...

But much more polite, and gave me an example.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Actually Spiderman IS affraid of Venom and he did run away. He faked his own death and left Venom on some deserted island. He left because he was affraid of Venom, he admitted it himself.

As for the greatest enemy, it really is Green Goblin, because while Venom simply wants to kill Peter, Goblin wants to ruin Pete's life.

I remember in an issue of ASM(forgot issue #), when Norman revealed himself to Spider-Man as alive, Pete cried, and had personal issues with fighting GG again. Eventually, they fought again, and Spider-Man won after a hard beating.

And who can forget GG dropping a building on Spider-Man?

Originally posted by Toku King
But much more polite, and gave me an example.

Not really you were the one being rude to begin with.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Not really you were the one being rude to begin with.

And it's posts like that that don't allow me to take you seriously.

Originally posted by Toku King
I remember in an issue of ASM(forgot issue #), when Norman revealed himself to Spider-Man as alive, Pete cried, and had personal issues with fighting GG again. Eventually, they fought again, and Spider-Man won after a hard beating.

And who can forget GG dropping a building on Spider-Man?
Yeah, I remember that scene, but Pete cried not because he was affrad of Goblin, he cried because the guy just doesn't stay dead and always keeps haunting him, bringing all the bad memories with him. To tell the truth Norman never possesed a threat to parker as a fighting opponent. Spider was always stronger and faster, but most of the time he holds back even with supervillains. But unlike Brock, Osborn doesn't have any moral code, that's why he's so dangerous.
As for Venom, Peter sees him as his own dark side. He feels responsable for everything Venom does, that's what makes him even a greater enemy.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, I remember that scene, but Pete cried not because he was affrad of Goblin, he cried because the guy just doesn't stay dead and always keeps haunting him, bringing all the bad memories with him. To tell the truth Norman never possesed a threat to parker as a fighting opponent. Spider was always stronger and faster, but most of the time he holds back even with supervillains. But unlike Brock, Osborn doesn't have any moral code, that's why he's so dangerous.
As for Venom, Peter sees him as his own dark side. He feels responsable for everything Venom does, that's what makes him even a greater enemy.

Spider-Man created venom, he never created GG or Ock, so I guess he feels he has a responsibility when it comes to Venom.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Spider-Man created venom, he never created GG or Ock, so I guess he feels he has a responsibility when it comes to Venom.
Not to mention that Venom is the only spider's enemy that can't be detected by spider sense. I know, there are other symbiotes but Venom's the only symbiote who knows Parker's secret id so he could come out of nowhere.

Oh yes; he's not afraid to get Peter's family involved.

Yeah, according to his own code, they're not "innocent".

Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, according to his own code, they're not "innocent".

Actually, they are to him. That's why Eddie never harmed MJ or Aunt May. He scares Peter with the idea, but he's never planned to.
The only time he truly, truly thought about it was when Aunt May was on her death bed in the next room.

Later on he became more lethal to them, in the beginning no he did not.

Originally posted by Toku King
Actually, they are to him. That's why Eddie never harmed MJ or Aunt May. He scares Peter with the idea, but he's never planned to.
The only time he truly, truly thought about it was when Aunt May was on her death bed in the next room.
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Later on he became more lethal to them, in the beginning no he did not.

I remember an issue where Venom kidnapped Peter's "parents" (i think they were clones or something whateva) and he was planning to kill them because they gave birth to the "evil" but later changed his mind when he found out that they don't know that Peter is Spiderman.

Originally posted by harri
who do u think

It's between Venom and Green Goblin.

Originally posted by Sam Z
I remember an issue where Venom kidnapped Peter's "parents" (i think they were clones or something whateva) and he was planning to kill them because they gave birth to the "evil" but later changed his mind when he found out that they don't know that Peter is Spiderman.

They were robots.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
They were robots.

I knew that...

They were one of the first start steps to the clone saga.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
They were robots.

And guess who made them?

HARRY OSBORN.

And once it was revealed that it was all a sham, Peter went on his knees and questioned his own existence.

That alone is a good example of why I rank GG2 so high.

I thought the Jackal/Norman made them?

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
I thought the Jackal/Norman made them?

Nope. They made the Gwen and Spider-Man clones. Harry made the robot parents.

Oh, I thought they made the robots first then the clones.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Oh, I thought they made the robots first then the clones.

Harry made the robot parents, then the 90s section of the Clone Saga kicked in, I think. May have been the other way around, but I'm not sure.

However, Harry did make the robot parents.

I have that storyline

Here's a bit from Marvel.com:



http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.2470.Take_10~colon~_Spidey's_Fiercest_Foes

Cool, I was never a big fan of the clone saga.

Neither was I.

Ult. clone saga is good

Originally posted by steverules
Ult. clone saga is good

I stopped at Scorpion's debut, since we don't have a comic store anywhere near here.
I liked the issue a lot, though.

I heard good things about the Ult version, nice to see Doc Ock as the villain, the guy who has enough intelligence to pull it off.

Originally posted by Toku King
I stopped at Scorpion's debut, since we don't have a comic store anywhere near here.
I liked the issue a lot, though.

Took me ages to get that issue, I started getting the ult.clone saga at issue 100 and had to get each issue individually and issue 97 was hard to get on it's own, wasn't at any comic shop and if you went on ebay and tried finding it then it would come with the other parts of the clone saga but I got lucky and found the issue on it's own

What issues do the Clone saga take up?

I'm not a big fan of the Ultimate story lines.

I don't like Ult. At all but I have heard good things about the clone saga.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
What issues do the Clone saga take up?

97 - 105 I think

Ahh cool.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Not really never could live up to his father... Technically he is better since he had that better sirem but green goblin is a legend in spidey comics. I just still dont think he's spidey's greatest enemy

Plus he neally killed spider-man, had Harry not turned good and seen the error of his ways then spider-man woulda died

Well, Venom could've killed Spiderman like 50 times, I think. But is always interrupted or stops himself in order to prolong the pleasure...

Which in turn leads to his defeat most of the time.

Yeah Well, they need SOME excuse for Spidey to survive his battles with Venom.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah Well, they need SOME excuse for Spidey to survive his battles with Venom.

Actually, Spider-Man wins creatively. Like in the second fight, Pete took off his suit and told the Symbiote to come get him. The Symbiote tried to break from Eddie, but the stress of breaking away was so great that both the Symbiote and Brock were left unconscious.

Not really he just tricks venom, most of the time he runs away and then uses sonics or fire to stop him, I mean how does he beat GG, hit him in the face simple as, that won't work on Venom.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Not really he just tricks venom, most of the time he runs away and then uses sonics or fire to stop him, I mean how does he beat GG, hit him in the face simple as, that won't work on Venom.

That's very, very, very untrue. "Just hit him in the face"? Not that easy, ever. He's done it maybe once, but he looked like one big bruise aafter getting that close. He does sonics and things with Venom because it makes it easier. He isn't that lucky with Norman. When he hits Norman, he has to hit him hard. Very hard. Mailbox driving his head into the tar hard. Hit him with a desk out a window into a car hard. Norman isn't beatable with just sonics and fire. He needs to be flat out beaten, and he's stronger than Spider-Man, not to mention more skilled h2h.
And even those times(besides the mailbox), he was still ticking.
When Norman was in his unstable faze, Norman could be convinced to stop. In those times, Spidey would try that right before a fight with the dude, because he really, really didn't want to be covered in bruises, blood, and charred skin.

It's that simple. I mean, NOT simple.

just to say, check on ign spidey's greatest enemy that's the real verdict

I refuse to go there.

Originally posted by Magic_attack
I refuse to go there.

Agreed it will be biased.

WOOOOOO! It's getting close!

Originally posted by Toku King
That's very, very, very untrue. "Just hit him in the face"? Not that easy, ever. He's done it maybe once, but he looked like one big bruise aafter getting that close. He does sonics and things with Venom because it makes it easier. He isn't that lucky with Norman. When he hits Norman, he has to hit him hard. Very hard. Mailbox driving his head into the tar hard. Hit him with a desk out a window into a car hard. Norman isn't beatable with just sonics and fire. He needs to be flat out beaten, and he's stronger than Spider-Man, not to mention more skilled h2h.
And even those times(besides the mailbox), he was still ticking.
When Norman was in his unstable faze, Norman could be convinced to stop. In those times, Spidey would try that right before a fight with the dude, because he really, really didn't want to be covered in bruises, blood, and charred skin.

It's that simple. I mean, NOT simple.

Since when was GG stronger than Spiderman- I think its more the other way round

lizard.

oh yeah sorry i forgot lizard and i agree with the most part, my favourite villain considering story, but just isn't recognized as an 'Archenemy'.

here's my opinion

Green goblin took marvel comics by storm when he killed gwen stacy and no one could stop him being spidey's archenemy,he ruled the villains gallery.
But then came Venom, he took the title of archenemy from green goblin and has it ever since. GG has has hit peter at a more peronal level but venom is like a stalker, but isn't a fan of spiderman.

GG is peter parkers archenemy
Dr Octopus is spiderman's archenemy
Venom is peter and spideys archenemy

Venom doesn't need to kill a love of peters life he just needs to kill spidey!!!

ovrall imo Venom is spideys archenemy.

venom and the green goblin have been spider-man's biggest vilains who always tortured him. but morlun is spider-man's biggest enemy. once morlun touched spider-man he can find him anywhere. i remeber how spiderman fought morlun about 4 or 5 days non stop he was always severely injured and couldn't fight no more.

I'd say that the Green Goblin is Spidey's greatest villain, no doubt, because he's caused Spidey the most grief over the years. Next I'd say Venom, whom I think could become an even greater villain if some good writers got attached some story arcs that involve him.

Originally posted by Toku King
Green Goblin, no contest. At all. Nobody has scarred, beaten, mentally broken, and hurt Peter as much as Norman has. He's killed Gwen Stacey, killed Ben Reilly, "killed" Aunt May, made numerous other Goblins, almost destroyed New York City more times than I can count, corrupted Harry Osborn, crippled Flash Thompson, destroyed the Daily Bugle, and even beaten and carried Peter's unconcious(sp?) body to the underworld, where Spider-Man laid helpless and a broken man. And I haven't even listed one decade of his damage, let alone the fact that he's been kicking about for at least 25-30 years.

Venom's terrifying, Dr. Octopus is dangerous, and Green Goblin II is insane, but nobody has ruined Pete from the inside out quite like Norman.

enough said.

I mean Venom with Eddie Brock is a close second. All the other people who have worn the symbiote were lame only Brock has the balls for it. But seriously besides knowing his identity Venom has never scarred Spiderman, maybe scarred him once or twice. And besides venom has jumped from villain to anti-hero a few times as well. And now Brock is the Anti-Venom. So GG wins. If you are talking about Venom without Brock that is just lame. Gargan does not compare to Brock, he does not have the balls for the Venom suite.

good point mate but it is all opinion i guess, just venom has got more of a fan base i think, but correct me if i'm wrong!

Originally posted by harri
good point mate but it is all opinion i guess, just venom has got more of a fan base i think, but correct me if i'm wrong!

No your right, until I started reading Spider-man more I thought Venom was his greatest enemy. I won't lie Venom is very cool.

i generally don't think he really does have one greatest enemy, just 3.
because it can't really be seen whos his best enemy just look how close the poll is.

Originally posted by harri
i generally don't think he really does have one greatest enemy, just 3.
because it can't really be seen whos his best enemy just look how close the poll is.

Who is the 3rd? I mean Doc Oc is a genius and gets Pete in tight spots again and again. I do not know if I would give him Spiderman's worst enemy. You could also argue Morlun, but he has only been around a few issues and I do not think he will be back though. However, I think he was probably Spidey's most physically strong opponent.

I guess you could argue Kraven too, but in my mind he loses to the Green Goblin and Venom.

Then there is the Hobgoblin which is just a lesser version of the Green Goblin. He brings a different attitude and flare, but the Green Goblin still trumps him.

There was a time when I thought Carnage would be Spiderman's greatest Enemy, but that did not seem to happen. Basically I think creators took Venom and tried to create a villain that was even stronger, crazier and deadlier. In some aspects they did succeed, but Venom is more memorable and holds a larger fan-base than carnage.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Who is the 3rd? I mean Doc Oc is a genius and gets Pete in tight spots again and again. I do not know if I would give him Spiderman's worst enemy. You could also argue Morlun, but he has only been around a few issues and I do not think he will be back though. However, I think he was probably Spidey's most physically strong opponent.

I guess you could argue Kraven too, but in my mind he loses to the Green Goblin and Venom.

Then there is the Hobgoblin which is just a lesser version of the Green Goblin. He brings a different attitude and flare, but the Green Goblin still trumps him.

There was a time when I thought Carnage would be Spiderman's greatest Enemy, but that did not seem to happen. Basically I think creators took Venom and tried to create a villain that was even stronger, crazier and deadlier. In some aspects they did succeed, but Venom is more memorable and holds a larger fan-base than carnage. yes, but i think ock is his 3rd, i mean he has all the attributes to be his only greatest enemy, but Venom and green goblin are just ahead in my opinion. I actually prefered hobgoblin ( Roderick Kingsley) than green goblin but green goblin will always be ahead the hobgoblin i my opinion.

Originally posted by harri
yes, but i think ock is his 3rd, i mean he has all the attributes to be his only greatest enemy, but Venom and green goblin are just ahead in my opinion. I actually prefered hobgoblin ( Roderick Kingsley) than green goblin but green goblin will always be ahead the hobgoblin i my opinion.

I will give you that Do Oc definitely has the potential to be number 3, and maybe he is. But aside from a handful of impressive feats, I do not think he has done as much, at least as much as Venom or Green Goblin. But I guess you could put him at number 3. Now I do like the Hobgoblin, but honestly I feel he is like the green goblin with a different costume, but he is not as insane and has not scarred Peter.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
I will give you that Do Oc definitely has the potential to be number 3, and maybe he is. But aside from a handful of impressive feats, I do not think he has done as much, at least as much as Venom or Green Goblin. But I guess you could put him at number 3. Now I do like the Hobgoblin, but honestly I feel he is like the green goblin with a different costume, but he is not as insane and has not scarred Peter. yes, and i don't think he was there to scarre peter, just to fill in for the grand return of green goblin.

Doc Ock and Green Goblin deserve top spot. They've both seriously hurt and been involved in the deaths of people close to Spidey.

Venom is just a stalker who's never had any kind of impact like that on Spidey's life.

green goblin. the lizard

Why isn't Sandman on here?

Venom is the worst. He's never done anything really bad to Spidey. He just stalks him all the time. Loser.

The Goblin and Octopus ftw!!!!

Himself...

Originally posted by Doc Ock
Doc Ock and Green Goblin deserve top spot. They've both seriously hurt and been involved in the deaths of people close to Spidey.

Venom is just a stalker who's never had any kind of impact like that on Spidey's life.

Who has Doc Oc killed that was close to Spider-man?

Originally posted by namorsubby
green goblin. the lizard

The lizard is a good villain and tough opponent, but I see him more as a tragic villain because Conners is a good man and friend to Spider-man, and the Lizzard has never done anything truly awful to Spiderman

Originally posted by Wil Deidara
Why isn't Sandman on here?

Sand man is tough, and a good villain, but has never done anything as diabolical as Doc Oc, Venom, or the Green Goblin

Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Himself...
???????????????????? explain

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Who has Doc Oc killed that was close to Spider-man?


Captain Geroge Stacy. Knocked a chunk of debris on him in a battle with Spidey, killing him. He died in Spidey's arms, and revealed he knew all along Peter was Spidey before he died.

Classic.

What's with the whole Venom vs Doc Ock debate?

There's so much contrast between the two that it's pointless to try and compare them.

How about this? Doc Ock is more menacing and Venom is more deadly. Good enough?

Originally posted by Phoenix2001

How about this? Doc Ock is more menacing and Venom is more deadly. Good enough?

I don't really agree with that since Ock has done more to Spidey personally, and is a greater danger to the public than Venom is.

As has already been mentioned in other threads, people confuse Venom's staus as a villain with his popularity. Popularity does not equal the best. The movie Titanic made an insane amount of money, but that doesn't mean it's the greatest movie ever. I personally can't stand it myself.
Also some people think that just because Venom knows who Spider-Man really is that makes him better. Again not true. Especially when you consider the fact that Venom has never put that knowledge to any good use. He's just a glorified stalker with a chip on his shoulder over nothing.

It reminds of the line from Batman Begins: "It's not who I am underneath. But what I do that defines me". Venom has not done anything really bad to Spidey. Not like the Green Goblin or Dr Octopus have. That's why I believe they are a cut above Venom.

Originally posted by Keehar
I don't really agree with that since Ock has done more to Spidey personally, and is a greater danger to the public than Venom is.

As has already been mentioned in other threads, people confuse Venom's staus as a villain with his popularity. Popularity does not equal the best. The movie Titanic made an insane amount of money, but that doesn't mean it's the greatest movie ever. I personally can't stand it myself.
Also some people think that just because Venom knows who Spider-Man really is that makes him better. Again not true. Especially when you consider the fact that Venom has never put that knowledge to any good use. He's just a glorified stalker with a chip on his shoulder over nothing.

It reminds of the line from Batman Begins: "It's not who I am underneath. But what I do that defines me". Venom has not done anything really bad to Spidey. Not like the Green Goblin or Dr Octopus have. That's why I believe they are a cut above Venom.

Okay, you don't have to start spewing out the whole, "Just because Venom's popular doesn't mean he's a villian of quality," arguement.

Just because Venom doesn't kidnap dear ol' Aunt May or Mary Jane everytime you turn around to manipulate poor ol' Peter doesn't mean Venom isn't a villian of quality. Venom is obviously no mastermind, and this is what I, personally, like about Venom. Venom is more direct and immediate, and he his practically the only villian that has continually overwhelmed Spider-Man in this way, which may be the reason why Venom is so "popular."

You like to throw around that he's a stalker with a chip on his shoulder... well... who the hell isn't a stalker and doesn't have a chip on their shoulder in Spidey's rogue gallery? Norman Osborn spent years confusing and tormenting Peter with the entire "clones dilemma" before finally making his appearance. I wonder exactly how much stalking and chipping Norman had to do in order to pull that off. Of course some of you will say that it was brilliantly done, and I would agree with you. However, once Spidey got through all the torment, clones, bombs, and gliders, he defeated Norman almost as easily as Venom has beaten Spidey in their several encounters.

Venom is unique because he takes a huge turn away from your more classical villians:
1. He's no mastermind
2. He doesn't have to be a mastermind
3. He has Spidey's powers and more
4. He can lay a major smack down on Spidey

That is why Venom is popular, and you Goby and Ocky fanboys can't stand it, plane and simple.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Okay, you don't have to start spewing out the whole, "Just because Venom's popular doesn't mean he's a villian of quality," arguement.

I wasn't. I was giving you reasons for my opinion.



Spidey has been overwhelmed in every way before by many villains, including Goblin and Ock. Norman has dulled Peter's spider sense, and kicked his ass. Ock has whupped Spidey's ass severely many times before. Spidey often had to rely on different strategies other than brute strength in order to beat them. Just like with Venom. So it's not unique to Venom.



Doc Ock, Electro, Scorpion, Mysterio, Carnage, Kraven, Vulture, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc etc etc. None of these guys are devoted to stalking anyone because they have some grudge against them.



Nonsense. Norman has progressed. He's not simply defeated by Spider-Man. He's currently running the Thunderbolts at the moment, and had them go to New York to hunt down Spidey.

Fresh, original, exciting, and a thousand times better than Anti-Venom and all the other lame-o stuff they've done with the symbiote characters.



Ummm, neither is Electro, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc.



Looking at his track record of nothing achieved against Spidey other than brawling, I'd say he does.



Alot of good that's done him.



So can many of Spidey's enemies. Morlun can kill him and eat his eye if the mood takes him.



Afraid not. Nothing about Venom bothers me. I see the villain for what he is. So did Sam Raimi. It's some of the Venom fans, like yourself, who are in denial.

When it comes to the crunch, the only defence offered for Venom is his fighting skills. And that lends credence to what Raimi said, his popularity stems from him simply being an evil version of Spider-Man. Scratch the surface and there's nothing there but an angry meathead with a chip on his shoulder.

Originally posted by Keehar

Spidey has been overwhelmed in every way before by many villains, including Goblin and Ock. Norman has dulled Peter's spider sense, and kicked his ass. Ock has whupped Spidey's ass severely many times before. Spidey often had to rely on different strategies other than brute strength in order to beat them. Just like with Venom. So it's not unique to Venom.

I'm not denying that other villians have defeated Spider-Man before, but it seems that Venom is the only one that has the advantage in almost every encounter.



Doc Ock, Electro, Scorpion, Mysterio, Carnage, Kraven, Vulture, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc etc etc. None of these guys are devoted to stalking anyone because they have some grudge against them.

Where were you when the Sinister Six and the Sinister Twelve was conjured up?

Nonsense. Norman has progressed. He's not simply defeated by Spider-Man. He's currently running the Thunderbolts at the moment, and had them go to New York to hunt down Spidey.

Pshh, Spidey still hands Norman his ass.

Fresh, original, exciting, and a thousand times better than Anti-Venom and all the other lame-o stuff they've done with the symbiote characters.

It is fresh, original, and exciting, and throwing Anti-Venom into the mix makes it even more interesting.



Ummm, neither is Electro, Rhino, Shocker, Sandman etc.

No, they're not, just manipulated by masterminds... unlike Venom.



Looking at his track record of nothing achieved against Spidey other than brawling, I'd say he does.

Oh, please, Venom has done his fair share of outwitting Spidey before. Apparently you're not looking too hard.


Alot of good that's done him.

It has done him plenty of good infact.



So can many of Spidey's enemies. Morlun can kill him and eat his eye if the mood takes him.

Yeah, Morlun's pretty deadly too. Venom has just done it more.



Afraid not. Nothing about Venom bothers me. I see the villain for what he is. So did Sam Raimi. It's some of the Venom fans, like yourself, who are in denial.

When it comes to the crunch, the only defence offered for Venom is his fighting skills. And that lends credence to what Raimi said, his popularity stems from him simply being an evil version of Spider-Man. Scratch the surface and there's nothing there but an angry meathead with a chip on his shoulder.

If you say so...

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
I'm not denying that other villians have defeated Spider-Man before, but it seems that Venom is the only one that has the advantage in almost every encounter.

Which is why the Venom stories got stale and they started screwing around with Venom's motivations, making him anti-hero etc. His whole schtick was very one note. That's why they made a slew of symbiote related characters.

They totally changed the dynamic tin order to try and keep a one trick pony character fresh.



What? They were not stalkers. Ock formed the first Sinister Six because Spidey was becoming a nuissance getting in the way of their personal schemes.

The Sinister Twelve was formed by Norman for the same reason. They didn't stalk Spidey. They were not after him because they believed he ruined their lives or hurt them personally.

Not to mention these teams were only formed for that purpose ONCE!



Good! It's give and take with their relationship. Variety. Not one note like with Venom.



What has Anti-Venom brought to the proceedings that has not been done before? What is so interesting?



What's the difference? You said Venom was a far cry from the classic villains because he's not a mastermind. Half of the classics are not masterminds.

Why are you trying to change the point?



Outwitting in what way? Surprising him in a fight? Appearing out of nowhere undetected?



Really? List me some of these victories and benefits that it's achieved him.



Done what more? Killed Spidey and ate his eyeball? HA!



No need to get touchy. There's no reason to feel threatened or insulted. It doesn't detract from your love of the character.

guys calm down .there are different opinions on this, but my opinion is that venom is spidey's archenemy.

I personally don't believe that Venom is Spidey's "archenemy," or rather his primary archenemy. However, one of the things that I feel makes Venom interesting and different from the rest of the rogue gallery IS his similarities with Spidey such as the whole Spider themed costume and Spider themed powers. Whether it was for eye-candy purposes or not, it grabbed the attention of plenty of readers. Whether Venom's story has any real depth is really up to the reader to decide.

Obviously, characters like GG and Doc Ock have filled the nemesis position, GG especially, but Venom seems to fill what GG and Doc Ock lack, which is mirroring Spidey as what Spidey probably could have done as a villian instead of a hero. I feel that, due to the encounters Spidey has had with someone like GG, he only hates them more than fears them. With someone like Venom, I feel Spidey fears more than hates because Venom most usually comes directly after Spidey except for the occasional exceptions. And this is really what makes Venom different GG and Doc Ock.

fair enough mate.

Yes, my vote ties Venom with GG! However, if the question is who is Spiderman's arch-nemesis, it has to be Osborn.

But really, my favorite Spidey villain is Swarm. The guy is made of bees and a Nazi. Doesn't get any scarier. And according to the writers, bees hate spiders.

green goblin whoops spidey's ass! nuff said!

closed at the request of the thread starter.