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League of Champions: Season One - General Rules and Specifications

This is the discussion thread for the upcoming Season One of the League of Champions Battle League. This league will be conducted much in the same manner as a fantasy sports league (most analogous to Fantasy Football). Below is an overview of the rules for the upcoming competition (subject to revision during the discussion process). Combat will not begin until mid October (tentatively). Drafts will begin on September 10th (tentatively):


Roster's and Drafting:

1. Each participant/team will be allowed to draft as many characters as they can afford within the Salary Cap. The salary cap for Season One is 125 Points. The tier based salary table is as follows:

125 Salary Cap

High Meta - 30 points

Mid Meta - 25 points

Low Meta - 20 points

High Street - 15 points

Mid Street - 10 points

Low Street - 5 points

2. Amalgamation is allowed. You can amalgamate up to 4 characters at a penalty to your allotted prep time.

3. With your roster you must field a 3 (three) character team, whether they be amalgamated or individuals.

4. No amalgamated character can be a combination of more than 4 (four) individual characters. You must field 3 (three) combatants at all times.

5. You are allowed, and encouraged to, reconfigure your amalgamations into any combination you wish for each battle. However, you can not reconfigure your amalgams during combat.

6. In the interest of instituting a strategic element, the configurations that each team will be using in the battle will not be known until the opening combat comments are posted in the battle. You'll know your opponents roster, but you will not know which characters the team you are facing will be fielding until battle commences.

7. Drafting: In Round One drafting will be conducted in a first come, first served basis. Each subsequent round of the draft will be the reverse picking order of the first round (first pick in rd. one getting last pick in round 2, alternating in rd. 3, and so on). Each participant will be able to post 2 draft choices per round (salary cap permitting). Once you've spent your salary cap balance and your roster has been assembled you must wait until after opening day to perform any additional roster adjustments via trades and free agency.

8. Like in Fantasy Sports leagues you will be allowed to trade characters with other participants. Trades will take effect the following Sunday after the trade was proposed and accepted. You will also be able to waive team characters and pick up "free agents" (undrafted characters) at any time you wish. All trades and waivers/signings must be submitted to a league Commissioner to be posted in the League Standings and Transactions thread. The weekly trade/waiver deadline will be on Wednesdays at 3:00pm .


League Combat Rules:

1. This will be a Ironman/High Meta Tier Tournament. The characters do not need to be less powerful than Ironman himself, simply in the same power class. There is no cap on how powerful your amalgamation can be. The limits are simply on the individual members of your roster prior to amalgamation.

2. No offensive matter manipulation. Only the elements of the battlefield can be altered.

3. No time manipulation powers or technology.

4. No one-hit kill (OHK) abilities (example, Omega Red's "Death Factor", Rogue's soul/life-force absorption, dismemberment via teleportation of limbs/objects into vitals, etc.).

5. No access to the battlefield prior to the beginning of combat. Teams will begin combat .5 kilometers away from each others' position.

6. Prep: Prep is allowed. You get 10 (ten) minutes of prep per match at a member of your team's historical base of operations. Characters that are members of teams (JLA, Stormwatch, Avengers, etc) will be able to utilize the team base of operations unless the character is also a solo hero and has their own personal base of operations (i.e. Batman gets the Bat-cave as his base even though as a member of the JLA he has access to the Watchtower). For characters that are members of a team you will not have access to any of their teammates equipment or arsenal, only the prep host's resources. The only resource available to you other than the prep host's arsenal will be the computer database present at the base. You get the character's historic primary base of operations and access to the prep host's equipment only. No exceptions and no loopholes. The default prep area is the Old Trafford Stadium in Manchester, England.

Addendum/Clarification (#1): Prep areas can be used as many times as you wish.

Addendum/Clarification (#2): Battle Information: Combatants will be given general public information on their opponents (name, basic overview of powers (simple things like "Iceman controls cold" "Strong Man is Strong", or "Storm controls weather", etc), place of origin. More indepth information on your opponents can be gained via access of databases at prep area (assuming you prepped in an opponents native universe and their info is available, i.e., opponent is Joker, you have Batman on your roster) or the knowledge that your characters would have of the opposition (if they are allies, enemies, etc).

Addendum/Clarification (#3): The purpose of this rule was so that if you were to have a character on your roster that is a member of a team you could only use their own character specific equipment (to eliminate, for example, someone drafting an Avenger and then claiming access to Mjolnir or the Ebony Blade or Ironman's armor, etc).

However, there are instances where some equipment is standard issue for every member of a team (for example, Legion of Superheroes Flight rings as standard issue equipment for all Legionnaires, Team communicators are standard issue for just about every team that exists, standard issue guns for a SHIELD, AIM, or GI Joe operative, etc), or some equipment is accessible to every member of a team without any restrictions (for example, The Danger Room for X-Men, a Quinjet for all Avengers).

For those particular instances, when it's not an actual character specific implement, but equipment that is standard issue ordinance for every member of a team, or accessible to every member of a team without any imposed restrictions, the equipment in question would fall under standard equipment for all characters that are members of that team and be accessible.

7. Tech: Creation of tech is allowed during prep. However, high end offensive weaponry or power neutralizers can not be brought from prep to the battlefield. No offensive implement with a greater payload than an independently powerered, non-enhanced Ironman armor is allowed. The technology can be used to amplify and enhance your characters during prep. Defensive technological implements (psi blockers, forcefield generators, armor) will be allowed, as well as communications devices and personal teleporters/means of transportation.

8. Amalgamation: The amalgamation process will take place during prep and will utilize a portion of your prep time as follows:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 6 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6+ character amalgam: 10 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

Demalgamation is instantaneous. You can amalgamate a character then demalgamate them at will during prep. Amalgamations can take place at any point in time during prep, and all characters do not need to amalgamate at the same time. This is purely at the participants discretion.

9. Experience is the only thing that carries over from battle to battle. You can not bring any implement that you acquired during prep or during the battle to the subsequent rounds. All you'll have is your memories/experiences/knowledge from the previous battle. No exceptions. No loopholes.

10. Duplication/Self Replication: The ability to create copies of yourself (i.e. Multiple Man/Dupli-Kate/Animal Man's ability to replicate themselves) is officially banned (per majority vote).

11. No CIS.

12. Mind Control and Telepathy: Mind control of your opponent, be it by any means (telepathy, hypnosis, possession) is banned. Offensive telepathic assault is allowed.

13. Each poster/team is allowed 10 combat posts plus 4 scan only posts (14 posts total each). Scan only posts are used to post evidence only, not arguments.

14. Battle Field Removal: Battle Field Removal (BFR; removing your opponent from the battlefield via teleportation, bannishing, or exertion of force) is banned.

Addendum/Clarification: Teams are confined to the surface area and airspace of the battlefield within the planets atmosphere. Abilities which require a character to momentarily travel extradimensionally (Nightcrawler's teleportation, Spot's teleportation, etc.), and powers which allow a character to become momentarily out of phase/intangible (Martian intangibility/mass shunt, etc) are allowed. Voluntarily leaving the battlefield, indefinitely or otherwise, is officially banned per executive decision.

15. Power Copying: The ability to copy the powers of other characters (i.e. Mimic/Duplicate Boy/Synch) is officially banned (per majority vote).

16.Immortality and Healing Factors: Immortality (Deadpool, Mr. Immortal, etc.) is banned (per majority vote). Healing factors are allowed.

17. Speed Cap: Traveling speed is capped at Mach 10 (per majority vote).

Addendum/Clarification: Speed cap is applicable for combat only.

tbc in next post...

continue from previous post...

18. Independent Constructs: Independently acting constructs are officially banned (per majority vote).

19. Precognition/Clairvoyance: Precog and clairvoyance are banned per executive order. Spider-sense like/combat awareness abilities are perfectly legal.

20. Probability Alteration/Luck Powers: Probability Alteration powers (a la Longshot, Shamrock, etc) are banned per executive order.

21. Size Alteration/Shrinking Powers: The ability to shrink to a subatomic state (i.e. The Atom) is banned per executive order. The diminutive size cap is 2 cms.

Scheduling/Battle Format:

Each participant will possibly face every other participant at least once during the regular season.

Regular Season: Matches will begin on a Monday and end on Thursday. Each match will have 3 judges, and each judge vote is worth a point. The number of points accumulated during the regular season will determine seeding in the playoffs. Any ties will be resolved via the tiebreaker (which team defeated the other in their match). The top 4 participants will advance to the Semifinal Playoff Round.

Semi-Finals: Each match will have 5 judges, the 1st Seed will face the 4th Seed and the 2nd Seed will face the 3rd seed. Also, the two losing teams in this round will advance to a Bronze Metal Match in the Finals.

Finals: Each match will have 5 judges.

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Delph's considering opening this up to teams.

I might have a teammate already (they can't confirm atm), but I might not, so anybody that's looking for one, PM or MSN me.

It's open to singles or teams as of now.

what about the speed force?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
what about the speed force? Obviously a major loophole in a tourney that caps at high meta.

Good thing Psycho Gundams on the lookout.

jockey

Hmm, What about not capping the number of people you can combine into an amalgam? If I wanted to draft 25 low street people (it could happen ... ) and split them as two individuals and one amalgam of 23 characters ... well wouldn't that just be my own stupid fault for amalgamating people with no powers?

C'mon ... the salary system already caps how many powerful characters you can draft, a mesh limit isn't really necessary.

This look pretty darn interestin'.

I'm fine with the system being capped at four. It's far from simple, but still far simpler than unlimited amalgamating... and isn't the point of Season 1 to keep things simple?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Hmm, What about not capping the number of people you can combine into an amalgam? If I wanted to draft 25 low street people (it could happen ... ) and split them as two individuals and one amalgam of 23 characters ... well wouldn't that just be my own stupid fault for amalgamating people with no powers?

C'mon ... the salary system already caps how many powerful characters you can draft, a mesh limit isn't really necessary.

Interesting point Scoob. I suppose rather than having a cap on the amount of characters you can amalgamate I could just increase the time penalty incrementally to correspond with the amount of characters amalgamated. The new time penalties could be:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 12 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6 character amalgam: 16 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
7 character amalgam: 20 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
8 character amalgam: 24 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
9+ character amalgam: 30 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

Originally posted by Boy Blue
I'm fine with the system being capped at four. It's far from simple, but still far simpler than unlimited amalgamating... and isn't the point of Season 1 to keep things simple?

Yes. I guess we could put it up for vote though. Personally I'd rather keep it simple because this is the first season and I want people to be able to get a feeling for the general format before I begin adding more elaborate rules and abilities.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Interesting point Scoob. I suppose rather than having a cap on the amount of characters you can amalgamate I could just increase the time penalty incrementally to correspond with the amount of characters amalgamated. The new time penalties could be:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 12 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6 character amalgam: 16 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
7 character amalgam: 20 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
8 character amalgam: 24 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
9+ character amalgam: 30 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

IMO, it would have to rise slightly faster than that to be balanced unless amalgams are need time to familiarize themselves with abilities.

How about:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 14 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6 character amalgam: 22 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
7 character amalgam: 30 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

If people wanted more than that, I suppose they could cut into their own match time...

Well, the only way for you to realistically combine an amalgam of more than 6 characters would be to have a high volume of low to mid street levelers. With the salary cap as it is, combined with the fact that you have to field 3 characters, if you were to draft more than one meta level character (2 high meta, 4 mid meta, 6 low meta) you wouldn't be able to afford enough characters within the cap to create an amalgam of more than possibly 4-5 characters unless you spent all of the remainder of your salary cap on low street level characters.

Originally posted by Boy Blue
How about:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 14 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6 character amalgam: 22 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
7 character amalgam: 30 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

This looks promising.

If you don't spend your whole 125 points in a season, does it carry over to the next season?

Originally posted by Scoobless
If you don't spend your whole 125 points in a season, does it carry over to the next season? I wouldn't think so... gives newcomers to next season a possible disadvantage.

Originally posted by Scoobless
If you don't spend your whole 125 points in a season, does it carry over to the next season?

Yeah, the salary cap for Season 2 will increase to 150 points. You'll have an additional 25 points to work with, but you'll retain your current roster. If you didn't spend your entire 125 points in Season One, or if you finished the season with a payroll under the cap (by waiving characters before the playoffs), it will carry over to Season Two (i.e., if you only had 110 in salary of the 125 salary cap you'd have 15 points leftover, plus the additional 25 points for next year, meaning 40 points of free cap space for the Season Two Draft). You'll be able to waive characters to free up cap space for new signings in next season's draft as well (since Season Two will be a Low Herald Tier season, with Low Heralds costing 40 pts).

Originally posted by Boy Blue
I wouldn't think so... gives newcomers to next season a possible disadvantage.

Newcomers will be like "Expansion Teams". They'll be able to draft from the remaining free agents and waived characters. Plus, since the tier and cap is raised, they'll start out with more cap room and a larger base of characters to draft from.

Adding another change:

Teams will be limited to 2 posters max. I'd actually prefer single participants, but if you'd like to compete with a teammate you can have one.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Yeah, the salary cap for Season 2 will increase to 150 points. You'll have an additional 25 points to work with, but you'll retain your current roster. If you didn't spend your entire 125 points in Season One, or if you finished the season with a payroll under the cap (by waiving characters before the playoffs), it will carry over to Season Two (i.e., if you only had 110 in salary of the 125 salary cap you'd have 15 points leftover, plus the additional 25 points for next year, meaning 40 points of free cap space for the Season Two Draft). You'll be able to waive characters to free up cap space for new signings in next season's draft as well (since Season Two will be a Low Herald Tier season, with Low Heralds costing 40 pts).

Originally posted by illadelph12
Adding another change:

Teams will be limited to 2 posters max. I'd actually prefer single participants, but if you'd like to compete with a teammate you can have one.

Does that mean that teams are fixed from season to season? Like if Smurph and Blair partnered together for season 1 would they have to partner for season two, or could they split their team's roster between them to start their own teams after the first season?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Does that mean that teams are fixed from season to season? Like if Smurph and Blair partnered together for season 1 would they have to partner for season two, or could they split their team's roster between them to start their own teams after the first season?

I would think, if they split, one of them would have to keep the team they already had and the other would have to start a new team. Trading would be optional after that.

There won't be any 50/50 crap here. If Blair leaves me, I'm taking the team, the kids, and every dime he's worth.

Heartless bastard.

EDIT

Originally posted by -K-M-
Sshhh

Originally posted by darthgoober
Does that mean that teams are fixed from season to season? Like if Smurph and Blair partnered together for season 1 would they have to partner for season two, or could they split their team's roster between them to start their own teams after the first season?

Teams are fixed from season to season, though you can waive all of your characters and redraft if you wish (though your draft placement in Season Two will be based on in which place you finished in the standings of Season One. Like professional sports leagues, the teams with better records pick later in the draft). If you made a trade with another team for rights to their draft picks in a following season you could bypass this though.

As for teammates, if they wanted to split their roster they could, otherwise they'd have to determine who kept the roster and who would start a new team.

We should start a pool going on how many times Smurph changes his name before the league, and another for name changes during the league and another for total name changes between now and the end of the first season.

Originally posted by Scoobless
We should start a pool going on how many times Smurph changes his name before the league, and another for name changes during the league and another for total name changes between now and the end of the first season.

Ooh! Can I enter?

I think over the course of the last tourney I had three different names... lolz.

Originally posted by Boy Blue
Ooh! Can I enter?

You'd just lose and embarrass yourself.

Think it over ... creep.

So ill did you ever decide anything on the "instant tech" option?

Yeah. I think I'm going to allow it in prep only for this season. You can create whatever machinery you wish in prep to amp your team, but you can't bring doomsday weapons/tech into battle until we get to at least Mid Herald Level (Season 3).

Roster's and Drafting:

1. Each participant/team will be allowed to draft as many characters as they can afford within the Salary Cap. The salary cap for Season One is 125 Points. The tier based salary table is as follows:

125 Salary Cap

High Meta - 30 points

Mid Meta - 25 points

Low Meta - 20 points

High Street - 15 points

Mid Street - 10 points

Low Street - 5 points

2. Amalgamation is allowed. You can amalgamate characters at a penalty to your allotted prep time.

3. With your roster you must field a 3 (three) character team, whether they be amalgamated or individuals.

4. You are allowed, and encouraged to, reconfigure your amalgamations into any combination you wish for each battle. However, you can not reconfigure your amalgams during combat.

5. In the interest of instituting a strategic element, the configurations that each team will be using in the battle will not be known until the opening combat comments are posted in the battle. You'll know your opponents roster, but you will not know which characters the team you are facing will be fielding until battle commences.

6. Drafting: In Round One drafting will be conducted in a first come, first served basis. Each subsequent round of the draft will be the reverse picking order of the first round (first pick in rd. one getting last pick in round 2, alternating in rd. 3, and so on). Each participant will be able to post 2 draft choices per round (salary cap permitting). Once you've spent your salary cap balance and your roster has been assembled you must wait until after opening day to perform any additional roster adjustments via trades and free agency.

7. Like in Fantasy Sports leagues you will be allowed to trade characters with other participants. Trades will take effect the following Sunday after the trade was proposed and accepted. You will also be able to waive team characters and pick up "free agents" (undrafted characters) at any time you wish. All trades and waivers/signings must be submitted to a league Commissioner to be posted in the League Standings and Transactions thread. The weekly trade/waiver deadline will be on Wednesdays at 3:00pm .


League Combat Rules (updated):

1. This will be a Ironman/High Meta Tier Tournament. The characters do not need to be less powerful than Ironman himself, simply in the same power class. There is no cap on how powerful your amalgamation can be. The limits are simply on the individual members of your roster prior to amalgamation.

2. No offensive matter manipulation. Only the elements of the battlefield can be altered.

3. No time manipulation powers or technology.

4. No one-hit kill (OHK) abilities (example, Omega Red's "Death Factor", Rogue's soul/life-force absorption, dismemberment via teleportation of limbs/objects into vitals, etc.).

5. No access to the battlefield prior to the beginning of combat. Teams will begin combat .5 kilometers away from each others' position.

6. Prep is allowed. You get 30 (thirty) minutes of prep per match at a member of your team's historical base of operations. Characters that are members of teams (JLA, Stormwatch, Avengers, etc) will be able to utilize the team base of operations unless the character is also a solo hero and has their own personal base of operations (i.e. Batman gets the Bat-cave as his base even though as a member of the JLA he has access to the Watchtower). For characters that are members of a team you will not have access to any of their teammates equipment or arsenal, only the prep host's resources. The only resource available to you other than the prep host's arsenal will be the computer database present at the base. You get the character's historic primary base of operations and access to the prep host's equipment only. No exceptions and no loopholes. The default prep area is the Old Trafford Stadium in Manchester, England.

7. Tech: Creation of tech is allowed during prep. However, high end offensive weaponry or power neutrilizers can not be brought from prep to the battlefield. The technology can be used to amplify and enhance your characters during prep. Defensive technological implements (psi blockers, forcefield generators, armor) will be allowed, as well as communications devices and personal teleporters.

8. The amalgamation process will take place during prep and will utilize a portion of your prep time as follows:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 14 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6 character amalgam: 22 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
7 character amalgam: 30 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

Demalgamation is instantaneous. You can amalgamate a character then demalgamate them at will during prep. Amalgamations can take place at any point in time during prep, and all characters do not need to amalgamate at the same time. This is purely at the participants discretion.

9. Experience is the only thing that carries over from battle to battle. You can not bring any implement that you acquired during prep or during the battle to the subsequent rounds. All you'll have is your memories/experiences from the previous battle. No exceptions. No loopholes.

10. During combat no more than 5 independently acting constructs per team (sum of 3 team members + constructs must not exceed 8). When a construct or duplicate ceases to exist in combat it can be re-summoned if capable.

11. No CIS.

12. The ability to copy powers is allowed, however, you can only copy the powers of individual characters, not amalgamated characters.

13. No mind control.

14. Each poster/team is allowed 10 combat posts plus 4 scan only posts (14 posts total each). Scan only posts are used to post evidence only, not arguments.


Scheduling/Battle Format:

Each participant will possibly face every other participant at least once during the regular season.

Regular Season: Matches will begin on a Monday and end on Thursday. Each match will have 3 judges, and each judge vote is worth a point. The number of points accumulated during the regular season will determine seeding in the playoffs. Any ties will be resolved via the tiebreaker (which team defeated the other in their match). The top 4 participants will advance to the Semifinal Playoff Round.

Semi-Finals: Each match will have 5 judges, the 1st Seed will face the 4th Seed and the 2nd Seed will face the 3rd seed. Also, the two losing teams in this round will advance to a Bronze Metal Match in the Finals.

Finals: Each match will have 5 judges.

Do amalgams carry over from round to round, or do the teams start from scratch each time? Like if you amalgamated Spiderman and Colossus in round one's prep and never deamalgamated them would you start round two with the amalgam in place, or would you have to start over again?

You'd start over again. Each round you begin with your unamalgamated roster and can merge them into any configuration you want.

Not that Im participating (still thinking it over), but is this comic characters only, or all types?

Did you switch this to a team tourney now?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Not that Im participating (still thinking it over), but is this comic characters only, or all types?
Comic only for season 1.
Originally posted by batdude123
Did you switch this to a team tourney now?
You can enter as a single or a two man team.

I'm in.

I'm out.

Originally posted by The Boss
I'm in.

Originally posted by The Boss
I'm out.

Eerily similar to your sexual performance, eh? haermm

Originally posted by batdude123
Eerily similar to your sexual performance, eh? haermm are you mad he didn't play with your B**b's first?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
are you mad he didn't play with your B**b's first?

Wouldn't anybody be?

Originally posted by The Boss
I'm in.
Originally posted by The Boss
I'm out.
Originally posted by batdude123
Eerily similar to your sexual performance, eh? haermm

Originally posted by illadelph12
Roster's and Drafting:

1. Each participant/team will be allowed to draft as many characters as they can afford within the Salary Cap. The salary cap for Season One is 125 Points. The tier based salary table is as follows:

125 Salary Cap

High Meta - 30 points

Mid Meta - 25 points

Low Meta - 20 points

High Street - 15 points

Mid Street - 10 points

Low Street - 5 points


Hey ill you might want to give some thought to adjusting the prices of the draft picks, I mean it seems a little odd that drafting Ironman cost the same as drafting Captain America and Bane. I suggest setting it up more along these lines...

High Meta- 30 pts
Low/Mid meta- 20 pts
Street level(all)- 10 pts

Originally posted by psycho gundam
what about the speed force?

There's a High Meta Speedforce user?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey ill you might want to give some thought to adjusting the prices of the draft picks, I mean it seems a little odd that drafting Ironman cost the same as drafting Captain America and Bane. I suggest setting it up more along these lines...

High Meta- 30 pts
Low/Mid meta- 20 pts
Street level(all)- 10 pts

Thanks, but I'm keeping the prices as is. There's a method to my madness.

Originally posted by illadelph12
There's a High Meta Speedforce user? just checking.

wait, what about impulse, isn't he considered under herald?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Thanks, but I'm keeping the prices as is. There's a method to my madness.

durelly

Originally posted by Raoul
durelly

Silence, Son of Jor-El!!!!

So how many people do you want to have to start this thing?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Silence, Son of Jor-El!!!!

you're just jalous...

Well, I actually hadn't intended to begin until October. I was planning on posting this discussion thread 3 weeks from now and giving people ample time to strategize and research draft picks a well as alternates for the free agency/waiver option. Currently I believe I have 5 participants:

Yourself (Scoob)
Smurph
Goob
Paul
B-Dub*

Plus at least 3 others who have shown interest. I'd like to have at least 8-10 participants (particularly if some participants decide to pair off rather than compete solo).

I also currently have 5 judges other than myself:

Batdude
Newjak
Digi
Cresh
Trickster (who may actually become a competitor)

I'm looking for at least 8 teams and 8-10 judges for the start (which is tentatively October 10th). I may push things up if I can get things established sooner, but I've left myself time for accomodating to other people's schedules and giving people time to see if this is something they can realistically be involved in.

I'd be happy to help with judging.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Trickster (who may actually become a competitor) I have many reservations about that, not the least of which is that he was asking me about my thoughts on drafts, saying he was definitely trustworthy since he was a judge... ermm

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'd be happy to help with judging.

Great. Thanks Sym. I'll add you to my list of judges.

Originally posted by Boy Blue
I have many reservations about that, not the least of which is that he was asking me about my thoughts on drafts, saying he was definitely trustworthy since he was a judge... ermm

Well, to be more descriptive on Trickster, he said he wasn't going to compete in this season, but likely would in season two when the tier shifts to low herald and the choices open up to mixed genre. As of now he's a judge only, so discussing season one character choices with him would be safe.

Originally posted by Boy Blue
I have many reservations about that, not the least of which is that he was asking me about my thoughts on drafts, saying he was definitely trustworthy since he was a judge... ermm

How many times do I have to tell you, if some guy comes up to you and says "Trust me, I'm a Judge" nine times out of ten he's planning to f*ck you from behind.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, to be more descriptive on Trickster, he said he wasn't going to compete in this season, but likely would in season two when the tier shifts to low herald and the choices open up to mixed genre. As of now he's a judge only, so discussing season one character choices with him would be safe. K, cool.

Originally posted by Scoobless
How many times do I have to tell you, if some guy comes up to you and says "Trust me, I'm a Judge" nine times out of ten he's planning to f*ck you from behind.



Trust me, I'm a judge... flirt

Originally posted by Raoul
Trust me, I'm a judge... flirt

More along the lines of a bailiff... pigfight

Originally posted by Scoobless
he's planning to f*ck you from behind.

Funny, Paul always jumps at the opportunity to tell me his team...

Originally posted by Boy Blue
I have many reservations about that, not the least of which is that he was asking me about my thoughts on drafts, saying he was definitely trustworthy since he was a judge... ermm
10 bucks says that he judges my first match. It seems like I just can't get going in a debate nowadays without Trick being involved somehow...

Originally posted by illadelph12
More along the lines of a bailiff... pigfight



Originally posted by Boy Blue
Funny, Paul always jumps at the opportunity to tell me his team...

no i didn't, you tried to guess, and got one... ermm

You've already picked a team?

Originally posted by Scoobless
You've already picked a team?



i have one in mind... srug

One team or one member?

If you're thinking of high profile drafts, be prepared to have someone steal them before you get them.

Originally posted by Raoul
i have one in mind... srug

Reveal it! I'm a judge

Originally posted by Scoobless
One team or one member?

If you're thinking of high profile drafts, be prepared to have someone steal them before you get them.

one team.

obviously.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Reveal it! I'm a judge

later.

Does it include Cyclops?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Does it include Cyclops?



yeah, i have a whole team of x-men...

Originally posted by Raoul
yeah, i have a whole team of x-men...

Wouldn't be a huge surprise, some decent members there that fit these levels.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Wouldn't be a huge surprise, some decent members there that fit these levels.

Originally posted by Raoul


shrug

Originally posted by Scoobless
shrug

sarcasm detector broken?

Originally posted by Raoul
sarcasm...

*looks for dictionary*

Originally posted by Raoul
no i didn't, you tried to guess, and got one... ermm You either missed the gay joke, or you ruined it.

I hate you.

Originally posted by Boy Blue
You either missed the gay joke, or you ruined it.

I hate you.

i heart you too...

So we'll be drafting one character at a time (like other tourneys) even though some people may be opting for more characters than others, right?

Originally posted by Scoobless
So we'll be drafting one character at a time (like other tourneys) even though some people may be opting for more characters than others, right?

Actually, you'll be drafting up to two characters at a time per round, your salary caps permitting .

For example, in round one you could draft Ironman and Captain America:

Ironman - - 30 pts
Captain America - - 15 pts

or just Ironman:

Ironman - - 30 pts

It's entirely up to your discretion. Some people may want to rush in and pick up hot commodity picks early on in the draft, others may want to bide their time and see what the others are planning, then draft the more obscure yet powerful characters in later rounds to counter the opposition's powersets (which is part of the reason the prices are set as they are).

Originally posted by illadelph12
Actually, you'll be drafting up to two characters at a time per round, your salary caps permitting .

For example, in round one you could draft Ironman and Captain America:

Ironman - - 30 pts
Captain America - - 15 pts

or just Ironman:

Ironman - - 30 pts

It's entirely up to your discretion. Some people may want to rush in and pick up hot commodity picks early on in the draft, others may want to bide their time and see what the others are planning, then draft the more obscure yet powerful characters in later rounds to counter the opposition's powersets (which is part of the reason the prices are set as they are).


7. Drafting: In Round One drafting will be conducted in a first come, first served basis. Each subsequent round of the draft will be the reverse picking order of the first round (first pick in rd. one getting last pick in round 2, alternating in rd. 3, and so on). Each participant will be able to post 2 draft choices per round (salary cap permitting). Once you've spent your salary cap balance and your roster has been assembled you must wait until after opening day to perform any additional roster adjustments via trades and free agency.

Ok (must have missed that the first time I read it) So there's no limit on spending per round ... I mean, you could draft two guys at high meta for 30 points each if you wanted?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Ok (must have missed that the first time I read it) So there's no limit on spending per round ... I mean, you could draft two guys at high meta for 30 points each if you wanted?

Yeah, whatever you want to do spending wise per round you can do. If you wanted to spend your first four picks on 4 high metas and have 5 pts left over to either draft a low street leveler or just hold off until a later round or not pick another character at all, you could. If you want to draft cheaper characters early on so that you could see what other people are leaning towards then draft more expensive characters later on you could. You pretty much have full freedom in drafting. I wanted to make the drafting/character signing process as analogous to a professional sporting league draft and free agency as possible. In season 2 you'll also be able to trade a character for draft placement (for example, Team A could trade the rights to Black Panther and Batman to Team B for their 1st round draft pick in season 2, freeing up an additional 30 points of cap space on their roster for draft picks, as well as possibly moving up in position in the draft).

It's all about strategy.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I wanted to make the drafting/character signing process as analogous to a professional sporting league draft and free agency as possible.

lol ... I have no experience whatsoever with that type of format ... I think it's mostly an American thing.

As an interested party, my only gripe if I were participating is that there is too much prep time. Heck, ill's last low meta team tourney boasted similar prep and had people attempting to build Amazo and such. I honestly forget most of what my team did, but we were channeling GL rings and doing other prep-related things that made, say, Iron Spider-Man obsolete as a combatant....and he should have been near the top of the "limit" for the tourney. Amalgamation times won't even be 1/3 of the prep time, and 20-30 minutes is long enough to concoct a world of prep BS.

Given that much time, it will quickly cease to be about the combatants and in-battle debating, but will devolve to who can sell their prep to the judges the best (which isn't true debating, imo, and should only be one aspect of tourneys, not the majority). Personally, I think we've had a few too many tourneys recently where that is the case.

I realize it's one opinion, and that I'm not directly participating, but I thought I'd voice my thoughts. I like the format, and if enough interest is there, this should be an excellent tourney. So it's a minor point, but one I wanted to bring up for further thought.

This is all open to change. Nothing is really set in stone rule wise other than the price list. The extended prep time was to accomodate teams which wanted to create amalgams of more than 3 characters (as the time penalty scale increases parallel to the amalgamations).

One thing I didn't like about your HoZ tourney was that the battlefields tended to play too large a role in the outcome, for instance, you had that Robotech spaceship thing, seems any team who opted to try to control that thing automatically won.

Battlefields shouldn't be barren, but they should be neutral and not decisive in the matches.

Originally posted by Scoobless
One thing I didn't like about your HoZ tourney was that the battlefields tended to play too large a role in the outcome, for instance, you had that Robotech spaceship thing, seems any team who opted to try to control that thing automatically won. Good thing our team controlled it and won then, eh?

Originally posted by Boy Blue
Good thing our team controlled it and won then, eh?

Yup ... ... Good thing you knew what it was, I had no idea what Ill was talking about when he mentioned the battle location.


I think that was one of the two matches I actually participated in.



(though I was involved in some team planning and character merging ideas for other matches)

Ok, so we have:

-Neautral battlefields.
-Shortening prep.

What do you guys propose as a reasonable amount of prep time? 10 minutes?

Maybe limit any independent constructs/tech developed during prep to be High Meta level at max? (to get rid of potential Amazos and such)

I believe I did (Combat rule #7, page 2).

Originally posted by illadelph12
I believe I did (Combat rule #7, page 2).

Ah, I was only checking page 1. Doesn't cover constructs of a non tech variety though (clones, dupes and whatever) any limits on their powers?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Ah, I was only checking page 1. Doesn't cover constructs of a non tech variety though (clones, dupes and whatever) any limits on their powers?

Clones and dupes fall under rule #10, page 2 (independently acting constructs, rule #9 in pre-revision version). Tech falls under rule #7.



To give an simple example, nothing more offensively powerful than a remotely controlled Ironman Armor would be allowed as an independent construct (constructs fall under the individual character cap).

Originally posted by illadelph12
Ok, so we have:

-Neautral battlefields.
-Shortening prep.

What do you guys propose as a reasonable amount of prep time? 10 minutes?

I like it. 2, 4, and 8 minutes were the costs of amalgamation. Leaving those, 10 minutes essentially forces them to decide between heavy amalgamation or having any kind of time for prep, or some small combination. Because 2-8 minutes is certainly enough to grab some standard stuff from someone's home base, but not enough to splice together herald-busting tech or mesh-type deals. Then it's more about debating and reacting to your opponent's team, not reacting solely to their prep, but also allows for character-specific bases to play a role.

I agree.

Any other opinions on this topic?

...I see you had numbers for more-than-4 person amalgamations lower on page 1. But really, who needs that? The only way someone would afford it anyway would be to have an army of low metas or below. I doubt anyone would object to 2-4-8 minutes for 2-3-4 person amalgams respectively, and just setting the cap there. 5 person amalgams start to get a bit mind-boggling and silly anyway.

Originally posted by illadelph12
To give an simple example, nothing more offensively powerful than a remotely controlled Ironman Armor would be allowed as an independent construct (constructs fall under the individual character cap).

So no one could make an uber powered amalgam then replicate it through Mutliple Man powers or anything then?

Good, that's what I was getting at.

For the moment I don't see any problems ... for the moment ...

Yeah, you looked at the loopholes section of my director guidelines, right ill?



I've seen a couple of them addressed, but haven't read through all the rules. Any one of those could sneak up and become the dominating factor in the tourney. No mesh limit already opens some possible controversy ("...and by unlocking his full potential..." but is more geared toward creativity, not gimmicks.

{edit} just checked. duplication is the only one that isn't specifically mentioned, so nice job covering bases ill. I'd say ban duplication because of the strategy Scoob mentioned above. Otherwise, from me as well for the moment (pending the prep time change).

Originally posted by DigiMark007
...I see you had numbers for more-than-4 person amalgamations lower on page 1. But really, who needs that? The only way someone would afford it anyway would be to have an army of low metas or below. I doubt anyone would object to 2-4-8 minutes for 2-3-4 person amalgams respectively, and just setting the cap there. 5 person amalgams start to get a bit mind-boggling and silly anyway.

Well, many street level characters have good prep areas that may make them good resources for a team, and amalgamating someone like Mr. Terrific with a few low metas could be interesting.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah, you looked at the loopholes section of my director guidelines, right ill?



I've seen a couple of them addressed, but haven't read through all the rules. Any one of those could sneak up and become the dominating factor in the tourney. No mesh limit already opens some possible controversy ("...and by unlocking his full potential..." but is more geared toward creativity, not gimmicks.

{edit} just checked. duplication is the only one that isn't specifically mentioned, so nice job covering bases ill. I'd say ban duplication because of the strategy Scoob mentioned above. Otherwise, from me as well for the moment (pending the prep time change).

Heh, actually...

I'll likely open things up a lil when we get to season 3-4 and the tier and cap expands. For now I'm trying to keep things relatively simple. Plus the tech proliferation was getting to be a bit much.

*edit

Dupes fall under independent constructs.

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 6 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6+ character amalgam: 10 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

Prep is 10 minutes.

?

Season 3-4?? Are you certain people will be interested for that long? Or will you have a new sign-up process for each one? Because getting people to commit to even 1 tourney is hard enough. Even if it's new sign-ups, I'd recommend a long time in between, if only because you don't want to create a monopoly on tourney hosting, and also because successive tourneys tend to do poorly.

And duping would be allowed?! Hrn. You do realize that no one in their right mind wouldn't take a dupe-er, simply because they can have 8 of their amalgams now instead of 3. And since there is only 3-4 known dupers, it kinda creates an unfair disadvantage for a lot of people, doesn't it? Constructs are one thing. Generally they aren't fully functional people (at this level, at least). But duping in a Meta tourney becomes a gigantic advantage. You're the boss, but Scoobless' comments are similar to my concerns, so I doubt I'll be alone. Great for whoever comes to the draft thread first....sucks for everyone else.

I'd say shortening one's prep is not that good of idea. 10 minutes is way too short. let's make it 20 minutes like in low meta tourney.

Dupes as independent constructs are fine, but let's shorten the number of them. Three instead of five would be nice.
More independent constructs can be allowed, but at expence of not fielding some actual team members- i.e. 1 char+5 constructs, 2+4, 3+3...total number not getting over 6.

The battlefields should be neutral, I think...

Why do you need more prep time if you can't bring uber weapons and such into the battle?

The limit was on weaponry, not on power amping. Something like UN is forbidden- and there's a reason for that. But if you enhance your character's offencive capabilities a bit,there's nothing wrong with it.

Amazos\Adaptoids are still an option, though- I don't know about Amazo, but Adaptoid would cost from 50 to 60 points (depending on cost of sev. characters, I won't give the ways to build him but there's a few).

The cheapest "instant tech route" is about 45 points base configuration (not giving exact recipies)- has nothing to do with Adaptoids etc.
But then...10-15 minutes is fine with me.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Season 3-4?? Are you certain people will be interested for that long? Or will you have a new sign-up process for each one? Because getting people to commit to even 1 tourney is hard enough. Even if it's new sign-ups, I'd recommend a long time in between, if only because you don't want to create a monopoly on tourney hosting, and also because successive tourneys tend to do poorly.

And duping would be allowed?! Hrn. You do realize that no one in their right mind wouldn't take a dupe-er, simply because they can have 8 of their amalgams now instead of 3. And since there is only 3-4 known dupers, it kinda creates an unfair disadvantage for a lot of people, doesn't it? Constructs are one thing. Generally they aren't fully functional people (at this level, at least). But duping in a Meta tourney becomes a gigantic advantage. You're the boss, but Scoobless' comments are similar to my concerns, so I doubt I'll be alone. Great for whoever comes to the draft thread first....sucks for everyone else.

Well, of course it's voluntary. Each subsequent season will be a different tier (2 - low herald, 3 - mid, 4 - High). I'm not planning to do them back to back either. Season 2 wouldn't be until next year around this time, I'd just save the roster detail in an Excel Spreadsheet.

Duping is allowed. The cap for constructs is a remote controlled Ironman armor. If you created a Godly Amalgam you couldn't duplicate him because the dupe falls under the construct cap. I believe I stated that on the last page actually.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Amazos\Adaptoids are still an option, though- I don't know about Amazo, but Adaptoid would cost from 50 to 60 points

We've already covered this.

Originally posted by illadelph12
The cap for constructs is a remote controlled Ironman armor.

_________________


EDIT: Meant to ask about appearance limits, is there a minimum or are you allowing characters in who have only been in one or a handful of comics? We've used this restriction before (usually 6-10 issues or so) in order to keep out people who have only shown up once or twice and shown no weaknesses.

Hmm...

I think 10+ appearances is reasonable. You'll also need to post a bio (per the norm).

this is confusing...

Which part Pig? Maybe I should consolidate all of the rule ammendments into one post.

Sections with amendments are Bold:

Roster's and Drafting:

1. Each participant/team will be allowed to draft as many characters as they can afford within the Salary Cap. The salary cap for Season One is 125 Points. The tier based salary table is as follows:

125 Salary Cap

High Meta - 30 points

Mid Meta - 25 points

Low Meta - 20 points

High Street - 15 points

Mid Street - 10 points

Low Street - 5 points

2. Amalgamation is allowed. You can amalgamate characters at a penalty to your allotted prep time.

3. With your roster you must field a 3 (three) character team, whether they be amalgamated or individuals.

4. You are allowed, and encouraged to, reconfigure your amalgamations into any combination you wish for each battle. However, you can not reconfigure your amalgams during combat.

5. In the interest of instituting a strategic element, the configurations that each team will be using in the battle will not be known until the opening combat comments are posted in the battle. You'll know your opponents roster, but you will not know which characters the team you are facing will be fielding until battle commences.

6. Drafting: In Round One drafting will be conducted in a first come, first served basis. Each subsequent round of the draft will be the reverse picking order of the first round (first pick in rd. one getting last pick in round 2, alternating in rd. 3, and so on). Each participant will be able to post 2 draft choices per round (salary cap permitting). Once you've spent your salary cap balance and your roster has been assembled you must wait until after opening day to perform any additional roster adjustments via trades and free agency.

7. Like in Fantasy Sports leagues you will be allowed to trade characters with other participants. Trades will take effect the following Sunday after the trade was proposed and accepted. You will also be able to waive team characters and pick up "free agents" (undrafted characters) at any time you wish. All trades and waivers/signings must be submitted to a league Commissioner to be posted in the League Standings and Transactions thread. The weekly trade/waiver deadline will be on Wednesdays at 3:00pm .


League Combat Rules (updated):

1. This will be a Ironman/High Meta Tier Tournament. The characters do not need to be less powerful than Ironman himself, simply in the same power class. There is no cap on how powerful your amalgamation can be. The limits are simply on the individual members of your roster prior to amalgamation.

2. No offensive matter manipulation. Only the elements of the battlefield can be altered.

3. No time manipulation powers or technology.

4. No one-hit kill (OHK) abilities (example, Omega Red's "Death Factor", Rogue's soul/life-force absorption, dismemberment via teleportation of limbs/objects into vitals, etc.).

5. No access to the battlefield prior to the beginning of combat. Teams will begin combat .5 kilometers away from each others' position.

6. Prep: Prep is allowed. You get 10 (ten) minutes of prep per match at a member of your team's historical base of operations. Characters that are members of teams (JLA, Stormwatch, Avengers, etc) will be able to utilize the team base of operations unless the character is also a solo hero and has their own personal base of operations (i.e. Batman gets the Bat-cave as his base even though as a member of the JLA he has access to the Watchtower). For characters that are members of a team you will not have access to any of their teammates equipment or arsenal, only the prep host's resources. The only resource available to you other than the prep host's arsenal will be the computer database present at the base. You get the character's historic primary base of operations and access to the prep host's equipment only. No exceptions and no loopholes. The default prep area is the Old Trafford Stadium in Manchester, England.

7. Tech: Creation of tech is allowed during prep. However, high end offensive weaponry or power neutrilizers can not be brought from prep to the battlefield. The technology can be used to amplify and enhance your characters during prep. Defensive technological implements (psi blockers, forcefield generators, armor) will be allowed, as well as communications devices and personal teleporters.

8. Amalgamation: The amalgamation process will take place during prep and will utilize a portion of your prep time as follows:

2 character amalgam: 2 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
3 character amalgam: 4 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
4 character amalgam: 6 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
5 character amalgam: 8 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.
6+ character amalgam: 10 minutes of prep used for amalgamation process.

Demalgamation is instantaneous. You can amalgamate a character then demalgamate them at will during prep. Amalgamations can take place at any point in time during prep, and all characters do not need to amalgamate at the same time. This is purely at the participants discretion.

9. Experience is the only thing that carries over from battle to battle. You can not bring any implement that you acquired during prep or during the battle to the subsequent rounds. All you'll have is your memories/experiences from the previous battle. No exceptions. No loopholes.

10. Dupes and Independent Constructs: During combat no more than 3 (three) independently acting constructs per team (sum of 3 team members + constructs must not exceed 6). When a construct or duplicate ceases to exist in combat it can be re-summoned if capable. The dupe/construct falls under the individual character cap and can not be more powerful than Ironman.

11. No CIS.

12. The ability to copy powers is allowed, however, you can only copy the powers of individual characters, not amalgamated characters.

13. No mind control.

14. Each poster/team is allowed 10 combat posts plus 4 scan only posts (14 posts total each). Scan only posts are used to post evidence only, not arguments.


Scheduling/Battle Format:

Each participant will possibly face every other participant at least once during the regular season.

Regular Season: Matches will begin on a Monday and end on Thursday. Each match will have 3 judges, and each judge vote is worth a point. The number of points accumulated during the regular season will determine seeding in the playoffs. Any ties will be resolved via the tiebreaker (which team defeated the other in their match). The top 4 participants will advance to the Semifinal Playoff Round.

Semi-Finals: Each match will have 5 judges, the 1st Seed will face the 4th Seed and the 2nd Seed will face the 3rd seed. Also, the two losing teams in this round will advance to a Bronze Metal Match in the Finals.

Finals: Each match will have 5 judges.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Which part Pig? Maybe I should consolidate all of the rule ammendments into one post.

good idea.

So should we ask you (Ill) or the judges about the potential cost of certain characters if we're not sure which tier the fit into?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, of course it's voluntary. Each subsequent season will be a different tier (2 - low herald, 3 - mid, 4 - High). I'm not planning to do them back to back either. Season 2 wouldn't be until next year around this time, I'd just save the roster detail in an Excel Spreadsheet.

Duping is allowed. The cap for constructs is a remote controlled Ironman armor. If you created a Godly Amalgam you couldn't duplicate him because the dupe falls under the construct cap. I believe I stated that on the last page actually.

I saw it, but misunderstood. That makes a lot more sense now, and isn't so lopsided (though still a possible advantage, just not as big a one).

Though defining the power level of a remote IM armor will be tough. There's likely high metas that are > one of those, so if you amalgamated them with a duper and made copies, you'd be illegal. But other high metas might not be as powerful. Just be careful, since you're opening yourself up to some tricky decisions there {edit} saw it's IM level, not his armor now...that makes it easier.

Also, along those lines, a dupe can be re-summoned if possible during the match according to the rules. That would allow duplicators to continue making copies every time 1 of the 3 dupes is killed, which would essentially mean they have an infinite number of copies, just not all at once. Potentially big problem.

....

And Charlotte, do you really want a redux of the prep from our low meta tourney? It was all about prep, and not at all about the combatants.

What defines "high end offensive tech"?

Originally posted by Scoobless
So should we ask you (Ill) or the judges about the potential cost of certain characters if we're not sure which tier the fit into?

Well, the judge roster I have currently is:

Digi
Sym
Jasonk4
Batdude
Bada
Newjak
Trickster
Creshosk*
Myself

Given Digi's expertise in these matters, and since he coordinated the tier thread in the comics section (and I trust his judgement), he would be an excellent resource as well, but you can confer with either me, Digi, or any of the other judges as a liaison to discuss these matters with me if you can't contact me directly (of course keep the character specific questions to PMs or MSN though so nothing is leaked publicly).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What defines "high end offensive tech"?

Power neutralizers, planet busting weapons, constructs/weapons with greater offensive capabilities than an independently powered Ironman/high meta character, etc. Basically no doomsday devices.

this sounds cool. it's personal thing, and i see you've limited it, but i'd be wholly against duping and/or copying powers in any way. i actually TRIED to get duping and copying banned in the tourney i just finished.

i agree completely with what digi was saying earlier about getting rid of the idea of 'best prep wins'. any prep limits you could establish (even more stringent than the ones ALREADY in place) i'd be in favor of. i'd like to see it come down to team v team as opposed to prep v prep. i think you've covered MOST of these points, just saying where i come out on them as they are currently laid out.

i'm still trying to weigh the time issue for me. once sept starts up between coaching and teaching my time really gets eaten up. it does sound very promising, though and my interest (as it always is in regards to these things!) is piqued.

Hmm, you may have a point on the duping and copying. I've pretty much eliminated the advantages of power copying during combat assuming you field an amalgamated character, so the only powers that a power copier would have access to would be the powers of their own teammates (unless you were to field a solo character).

I've always found dupes to be cheap (damn you B-Dub curseyou ). I really have no qualms whatsoevr regarding banning self replication outright and only allowing creation of outright drones/constructs via either technological means or summoning.

Any other thoughts/opinions on this from participants? Judges?

I'd say make it so you can only field two Dupes or Independent Constructs, and not just during the battle but also for prep. Also make it so that if they lose one they can not reform it back during battle.


That way it is still an advantage but not an overwhelming one considering they still have to pay to get it. And seeing how Duplication(One this Level) Tends to be a person's only power it should balance it out in pros and cons.

I'm personally in favor of a tech limit, but that's just me.

"I'd say make it so you can only field two Dupes or Independent Constructs, and not just during the battle but also for prep. Also make it so that if they lose one they can not reform it back during battle."

This is high meta, so Newjak's rule makes sense. Dupes at low meta tend to dominate more.

So cut constructs down to two, and take away the ability to recreate them if destroyed. That seems very reasonable. Good job Goldbug.

I'm leaning towards ratifying that suggestion and ammending the rule. Any objections?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm personally in favor of a tech limit, but that's just me.

"I'd say make it so you can only field two Dupes or Independent Constructs, and not just during the battle but also for prep. Also make it so that if they lose one they can not reform it back during battle."

This is high meta, so Newjak's rule makes sense. Dupes at low meta tend to dominate more.

There's a tech limit in regards to what you can bring into combat (no weapons in excess of a Ironman armor's standard armaments), and prep is only 10 minutes with time penalties for the amalgamation process. There essentially is a tech limit.

Originally posted by illadelph12
So cut constructs down to two, and take away the ability to recreate them if destroyed. That seems very reasonable. Good job Goldbug.

I'm leaning towards ratifying that suggestion and ammending the rule. Any objections? I have my moments Shitpiece

Originally posted by Newjak
I have my moments Shitpiece Warned for bashing. Please be civil in the future. Thanks.

I think we're getting a little too worked up about dupes. The extent to which we're limiting them seems really severe when we're talking about a tournament that has no caps on finalized power.

I think that we should go back to the original limits on the number of dupes and allow them to be recreated, but limit their amalgam possibilities. The cap on dupes is a remote Iron Man suit right? Then I say we limit characters who have the power to duplicate to amalgaming with a low-meta or lower character. Think about it, pretty much anyone on the mid-meta tier who's suddenly able to duplicate should be able to take out a remote suit of Tony's old armor without TOO much trouble, but even 30 Spidermen(let alone 5) would get KO'd by a single wide angle replusor blast in a no PIS environment.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I think we're getting a little too worked up about dupes. The extent to which we're limiting them seems really severe when we're talking about a tournament that has no caps on finalized power.

I think that we should go back to the original limits on the number of dupes and allow them to be recreated, but limit their amalgam possibilities. The cap on dupes is a remote Iron Man suit right? Then I say we limit characters who have the power to duplicate to amalgaming with a low-meta or lower character. Think about it, pretty much anyone on the mid-meta tier who's suddenly able to duplicate should be able to take out a remote suit of Tony's old armor without TOO much trouble, but even 30 Spidermen(let alone 5) would get KO'd by a single wide angle replusor blast in a no PIS environment.

That's getting awfully technical, and is essentially neutering a power (duping) in order to make it less dominant. The fact that you're suggesting it shows precisely why it's so out of place in a tournament at this level. This is a high meta (and below) tourney, so if duping's allowed, it should be allowed for high metas or not at all.

Under the current format, with probably an average of 5 on teams, and dupes being limited to 2 (and no re-creation) as well as limited to IM level (meaning they can only amalgamate with 1 other character) it forces people to choose. They could have 3 Iron Men, for example, but sacrifice extra powers because one of their picks was a duplicator. Or go with more powers, but less characters overall. It's a nice tradeoff, and creates a good balance, because we aren't forced to pick a duper, but we also aren't punished too much for picking one (which your suggestion would do).

I endorse the current proposition ill, btw. 2 constructs/dupes, no higher than IM level, and no recreation. 5 total, with 3 being no higher than IM level, or 3 total, all conceivably > IM.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
That's getting awfully technical, and is essentially neutering a power (duping) in order to make it less dominant. The fact that you're suggesting it shows precisely why it's so out of place in a tournament at this level. This is a high meta (and below) tourney, so if duping's allowed, it should be allowed for high metas or not at all.

Under the current format, with probably an average of 5 on teams, and dupes being limited to 2 (and no re-creation) as well as limited to IM level (meaning they can only amalgamate with 1 other character) it forces people to choose. They could have 3 Iron Men, for example, but sacrifice extra powers because one of their picks was a duplicator. Or go with more powers, but less characters overall. It's a nice tradeoff, and creates a good balance, because we aren't forced to pick a duper, but we also aren't punished too much for picking one (which your suggestion would do).

I endorse the current proposition ill, btw. 2 constructs/dupes, no higher than IM level, and no recreation. 5 total, with 3 being no higher than IM level, or 3 total, all conceivably > IM.
Wouldn't the other way fall even more under the neutering category though? I thought that neutering was capping the amount of power someone's allowed to use to a level lower than they've shown themselves capable of to get them in under the wire. I mean isn't that what limiting the number of dupes allowed is? If Marvel gave Warbird a duplication power like Multiple Man's tomorrow don't you think she'd be a fair share more powerful than one of Tony's remote suits of armor?

I'm not trying to push for no limit on dupes or anything because I understand that a line has to be drawn somewhere, but your method seems much more vulnerable to loophole exploitation.

Originally posted by Badabing
Warned for bashing. Please be civil in the future. Thanks.



Bada, Newjak wasn't bashing me. It's an inside joke regarding this Transformers clip from Youtube where Optimus Prime calls Kupp "Shitpiece" and Bumblebee "Goldbug". Could you rescind the warning please? No harm, no foul, and I don't want Newjak getting in trouble over a misunderstanding.

I'm in favour of the 2 dupe, IM limit rule.

Interesting side point to that though - Dupli-Kate (from Invincible) Each dupe is independent and can create new dupes, theoretically couldn't everyone draft a different numbered version of her?

ie, Leo drafts Dupli-Kate #1, Goober drafts Dupli-Kate #14, etc, etc...

It would certainly allow everyone to have access to duping if they wanted it that badly.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wouldn't the other way fall even more under the neutering category though? I thought that neutering was capping the amount of power someone's allowed to use to a level lower than they've shown themselves capable of to get them in under the wire. I mean isn't that what limiting the number of dupes allowed is? If Marvel gave Warbird a duplication power like Multiple Man's tomorrow don't you think she'd be a fair share more powerful than one of Tony's remote suits of armor?

I'm not trying to push for no limit on dupes or anything because I understand that a line has to be drawn somewhere, but your method seems much more vulnerable to loophole exploitation.

Well, dupes fall under constructs, which fall under the individual character cap. The limit is two dupes/constructs. If you chose to amalgamate a character with a duplicator you'd be able to add 2 Ironman/High Meta level duplicates to your team. Their progenitor isn't capped at High meta, just the duplicates/constructs.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, dupes fall under constructs, which fall under the individual character cap. The limit is two dupes/constructs. If you chose to amalgamate a character with a duplicator you'd be able to add 2 Ironman/High Meta level duplicates to your team. Their progenitor isn't capped at High meta, just the duplicates/constructs.

Sooooo ... I could join Multiple Man and Iron Man, create 2 dupes of him, then Amalgamate the original with a third character to boost him even further while leaving the dupes at IM level?

How about if I were to add duplication as a prep penalized ability similar to the current amalgamation process? So regardless of whether you had a duplicator on your roster or not you could choose to replicate a member of your team at a 4 minute penalty for the process? Does that sound feasible?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Sooooo ... I could join Multiple Man and Iron Man, create 2 dupes of him, then Amalgamate the original with a third character to boost him even further while leaving the dupes at IM level?

Essentially, if you actually would have any prep left to do so. Don't forget the time penalties.

If you create two amalgams simultaneously, do you only get penalised for whichever one would take longer?

Originally posted by Scoobless
If you create two amalgams simultaneously, do you only get penalised for whichever one would take longer?

The time penalty is for the actual characters involved in the process, not your team's overall prep allowance. If I had a team of 10 characters, while Characters #1 and #2 were amalgamating, Characters 3 through 10 could still be performing different prep tasks simultaneously, or if I had Characters 1 through 4 amalgamate and character 7 through 10 amalgamate at the same time, only characters 5 and 6 would still be free to perform any prep tasks. The time penalties remove the characters involved in the amalgamation process from being able to perform any tasks during the time it takes to amalgamate. Basically, during the amalgamation process only the characters being amalgamated are effected. Any team member not amalgamating is free to perform tasks while the others amalgamate.

Also, in regards to your question about merging Ironman with a duplicator, making the 2 dupes, then amalgamating him again, you would be penalized 2 minutes for the 2 character amalgamation, then an additional 4 minutes to create the 3 character amalgamation.

Originally posted by illadelph12


Bada, Newjak wasn't bashing me. It's an inside joke regarding this Transformers clip from Youtube where Optimus Prime calls Kupp "Shitpiece" and Bumblebee "Goldbug". Could you rescind the warning please? No harm, no foul, and I don't want Newjak getting in trouble over a misunderstanding.

durelly

Originally posted by illadelph12


Bada, Newjak wasn't bashing me. It's an inside joke regarding this Transformers clip from Youtube where Optimus Prime calls Kupp "Shitpiece" and Bumblebee "Goldbug". Could you rescind the warning please? No harm, no foul, and I don't want Newjak getting in trouble over a misunderstanding. I was messing with him.

grr . . . and now you see exactly WHY i would just as soon have duping banned outright . . . any suggestion that allows it must in essence neuter it at the same time. and regardless, SOMEONE will always find a way to loophole around it anyway! just once, if i draft a team, i'd like to be sure the powers i draft STAY my own, and that if someone comes up with a cool, tough amalgam, i wouldn't have to worry about having to face clones/dupes of it . . .

i like the notion of heavy penalties for duping/cloning, but would still favor banning all madrox/mimic-style characters of ANY level.

It's up for a vote. Like I said before, I definitely have no qualms with outright banning duplication (or "dubbing", as I like to call it) and power copying.

Yay or nay? Participants? Judges?

Originally posted by Raoul
durelly

Originally posted by Badabing
I was messing with him.



**** both ya'll...

Originally posted by illadelph12
It's up for a vote. Like I said before, I definitely have no qualms with outright banning duplication (or "dubbing", as I like to call it) and power copying.

Yay or nay? Participants? Judges?

if the constructs go with it, i say ban it...

I'd say to ban duping. I wouldn't have a page or two ago, but it seems no one can come to a consensus. Ban them and don't worry about it.

Power copying....meh. Also something that should usually be banned, though you did say that we could only copy individual characters, which helps. No strong opinion on that yet. Still a considerable loophole, but it may not be completely overwhelming.

against duping -- paul, digi, leo
for duping -- ?

Add my name to the against duping list as well, but this process is democratic, so the other participants will get a say as well.

I had a high meta character that could dupe, but I won't even ask about where that would fall.

I'll be against duping as well.

Against. Duping tends to be a game-breaker when it's allowed.

Well, that's six people against duping.

Scoob, Charlotte, B-Dub, Gundam, remaining judges, any other opinions/arguments for allowing duping/power copying?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, that's six people against duping.

Scoob, Charlotte, B-Dub, Gundam, remaining judges, any other opinions/arguments for allowing duping/power copying?
Yes.

there are some technicalities we could start delving into, concerning the 'duping argument'. but imo it should simply be banned. it's already causing more problems then need be.

Against duping as well...Sometimes that opens the possibility for very cheap loopholes.

And forget what I was saying about time rule...that was not a well-thought thing.