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This is lightside Galen.

1.Sabers
2.Force
3.All out

Location-The Death Star where Galen fought Vader

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t496692.html

Technically, it's different. "Jedi" Marek. He'd lose by the way, his Dark Side counterpart defeated Kota, the crazy guy, and Shaak Ti. Thus making his Light self less badass and therefore unable to ahndle RotS Anakin. Ugh, I feel so dirty.

What'd he actually do as Lightside Marek? Are his powers different r something?

Technically, his feats on the Death Star were as a lightsider. Just an aggressive one.

Originally posted by Gideon
Technically, his feats on the Death Star were as a lightsider. Just an aggressive one.
This is true, in fact one could argue he's more of a Jedi here than Anakin is, as he spared the Emperor and Vader, where as Anakin decapitated Dooku, in malice.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This is true, in fact one could argue he's more of a Jedi here than Anakin is, as he spared the Emperor and Vader, where as Anakin decapitated Dooku, in malice.

Except one couldn't argue that. Anakin was given a choice whether or not to kill Dooku. He could, and did. Galen was never given the choice to kill Sidious. He couldn't, even though he tried.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Galen was never given the choice to kill Sidious. Sure he was. Look at 5:45 - 6:20.

I haven't played the game but based on this cut scene, it looks like Starkiller is definitely a match for Palpatine. I could be 100% wrong of course.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I haven't played the game but based on this cut scene, it looks like Starkiller is definitely a match for Palpatine. I could be 100% wrong of course.

The official databank says in Starkiller's entry that he was "ultimately no match for the power of Darth Sidious" despite becoming one with the Force in his final attack.

The databank says that he was ultimately "no match" for the Emperor's power, which is when he decided to blow himself up.

But he's probably pretty close considering he overpowered Darth Vader, who himself is about 80% as powerful as Palpatine.

Edit: Screw you, Escape.

Interesting. Well I was judging by the fight alone and the DS ending, while not canon, has the Emperor stating "You could have been my successor, my equal".

Based on potential? Sure.

Originally posted by Faunus
Based on potential? Sure.

When he became one with the force and caused the explosion, wasn't it kinda like releasing his full potency?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
When he became one with the force and caused the explosion, wasn't it kinda like releasing his full potency? No that was releasing his power at the time. Given another 30 years of training and experience, that explosion could theoretically have taken out the entire station. Theoretically.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
What'd he actually do as Lightside Marek? Are his powers different r something?

As 'Lightside Marek' he was able to locate Kota through the Force. As a Darksider he was unable (or at least had great difficulty) in using the Force to see across great distances.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Technically, it's different. "Jedi" Marek. He'd lose by the way, his Dark Side counterpart defeated Kota, the crazy guy, and Shaak Ti. Thus making his Light self less badass and therefore unable to ahndle RotS Anakin. Ugh, I feel so dirty.

Nope. As a Lightsider he has all of the skill and experience he had when he defeated those three, and more. Plus he has a lot more clarity of mind and heart.

Heck, his Light self utterly defeated Darth Vader who is more skilled, experienced, refined and controlled than his RotS self. Not to mention he fought and beat PROXY who was using Anakin's appearance and skills, which gives him the advantage of foreknowledge.

So I'd say Lightside Galen is a lot MORE 'badass' than his Dark self and would beat Anakin.

Sabers - Anakin
Force - Galen
All Out - Galen

Originally posted by Darth Raizen
Sabers - Anakin
Force - Galen
All Out - Galen

Galen was the ultimate force user he would win that

Sabers - Stalemate
Force - Galen
All Out - Galen

Originally posted by Darth Rex
Galen was the ultimate force user
No....


and no.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Nope. As a Lightsider he has all of the skill and experience he had when he defeated those three, and more. Plus he has a lot more clarity of mind and heart.

Heck, his Light self utterly defeated Darth Vader who is more skilled, experienced, refined and controlled than his RotS self. Not to mention he fought and beat PROXY who was using Anakin's appearance and skills, which gives him the advantage of foreknowledge.

So I'd say Lightside Galen is a lot MORE 'badass' than his Dark self and would beat Anakin. I can't believe I missed this. He beat Vader as a Light sider sure, but beat three Jedi masters as a Dark sider. And in my infallible opinion, those three combined=better than Vader. And he beat Proxy all the time, Light and Dark. Plus I didn't much care for Proxy.

I have to agree with Elite Hunter. Before Anakin literally became one of the men in black, he was nearly unstoppable. Galen Marek may give him trouble only for a few seconds. Galen wouldn't want to revert back to his former self known as Starkiller.

Crack is bad.

Relevancy is cool.

For the record I'd give Galen the edge in an All Out battle but it would be close, Galen would have to use the force to win, if Anakin overwhelms him so much as he did vs Dooku in ROTS("making his knowledge of the force a joke" then Anakin would win.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I can't believe I missed this. He beat Vader as a Light sider sure, but beat three Jedi masters as a Dark sider. And in my infallible opinion, those three combined=better than Vader. And he beat Proxy all the time, Light and Dark. Plus I didn't much care for Proxy.

By that logic:

Vader killed dozens of Jedi.

In my opinion, the combined might of dozens of Jedi = better than Vader.

Ergo, Vader > Vader.

He was clearly being facetious.

Red, Galen became a Jedi towards the end of his life. Before he was a dark side user. When Vader took him as his apprentice he had already watched his father murdered and over the past 15 years was indoctrinated that the true power was the dark side. His life was shaped by violence of another creation - Vader created Starkiller, but Kota brought back Galen Marek.

I take back what I wrote earlier. I believe Galen would give Anakin of ROTS a serious battle. I agree with Elite Hunter that due to Galen's assasination training he would win an All Out fight incorporating his training during the fight. Saber wise, I believe Anakin would defeat him, but not quickly. Force . . . hmm. Galen did surprise Vader when he fought him on the DS - Galen's FL caused serious damage to Vader and he did beat him in a lightsaber fight. Galen beat Vader, but could he beat Anakin - that is an excellent question.

marek so overrated anakin was very powerful and we never see his full power during rots


saber anii
force stalemate
allout anii 7/10

Damn, Noobaris is getting banned at lightning speed.

kmc now has a noobaris scanner thats active 24/7

Heh. It's the "erm"er.

Wow.

I'll give you eight cents to mow my lawn.

What, with the way the economy is right now? You cheap bastard!

Ten cents.

Yeah, like he knows how to operate a lawn mower. Can you mow lawns from your computer now?

Actually, yes.

Special black ability?

Wrong race.

Fool.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
For the record I'd give Galen the edge in an All Out battle but it would be close, Galen would have to use the force to win, if Anakin overwhelms him so much as he did vs Dooku in ROTS("making his knowledge of the force a joke" then Anakin would win.

Galen is a lot more powerful than Dooku. No way is he being 'overwhelmed.'

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

I take back what I wrote earlier. I believe Galen would give Anakin of ROTS a serious battle. I agree with Elite Hunter that due to Galen's assasination training he would win an All Out fight incorporating his training during the fight. Saber wise, I believe Anakin would defeat him, but not quickly. Force . . . hmm. Galen did surprise Vader when he fought him on the DS - Galen's FL caused serious damage to Vader and he did beat him in a lightsaber fight. Galen beat Vader, but could he beat Anakin - that is an excellent question.

It'll be an amazing battle, and could go either way. If I had to name someone I'd still stick with Galen though, if only by a narrow margin.

For one thing, as you point out, he beat Vader. Who IS Anakin, only more experienced and refined. By that point Vader was used to his armour and limitations.

Plus, Galen has fought PROXY who assumed Anakin's form and skills (novel). True, it won't be quite the same, but at least he has some idea of how Anakin fights, while Anakin has no idea about him. Foreknowledge of the opponent is always helpful.

Chilled Monkey you bring up the point that Vader is Anakin - that is true. But the ROTS Anakin/Vader before his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar was incredible with the lightsaber. The only way I see Galen defeating Anakin with the lightsaber is through using his hand-to-hand techniques as well. The Vader we see in the life support armor seems to be a wrecking ball of the Force, not lightsaber.

At times, Galen seems far more powerful than Obi-Wan. During the battle what if Galen used a Force repulse against him? Would he be able to be able to defend against it? What if Galen used a FL attack against him? I haven't read or seen that Vader or Anakin was able to stop FL. Galen was able to stop FL . . . well according to the game that is.

This would be one spectacular brawl. I think it would make the Jacen/Caedus vs Mara look like a little league baseball game.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Chilled Monkey you bring up the point that Vader is Anakin - that is true. But the ROTS Anakin/Vader before his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar was incredible with the lightsaber. The only way I see Galen defeating Anakin with the lightsaber is through using his hand-to-hand techniques as well. The Vader we see in the life support armor seems to be a wrecking ball of the Force, not lightsaber. Well put.

And I think Anakin/Vader could stop Lightning, so long as he uses his lightsaber and not the metal hand.

Agreed Lucien. FL would overload the circuitry of the armor. The Vader who fought Galen underestimated him - Galen's FP & FL and lighstaber attacks. Vader expected him to die easily, but the strength in the Force Galen demonstrated took Vader by surprise. Even Sidious had to be a little shocked that the "Chosen One" got his ass handed to him.

On Mustafar when Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader attempted to use FP against each other, they were both blasted against the computer terminals by the sheer combined magnitude of the Force being used. Imagine a FR from Galen smashing the interior while fighting Anakin/Vader - the whole building would collapse. Galen's fighting style incorporates all three aspects: Force, lightsaber & hand-to-hand. The hand-to-hand is what makes him so dangerous.

Marek's command of the Force is demonstrably much higher and more profound than Anakin's. As the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia states rather explicitly, a high collection of midichlorians isn't enough to secure great power for a Force user; it requires meditation and study in order to master. Vader trained Marek by pushing his limits relentlessly -- the Jedi Order didn't use such barbaric methods.

He would crush Skywalker in a contest of the Force.

He would crush many, many people in a Force contest. Seriously.

So by pushing Marek to such extremes, that is what made him so powerful? Gideon, are you saying that Galen was able to tap into the raw power of the Force? I know that Vader tortured Galen and forced him to fight duels with him with "live" lightsabers, severely injured him and manipulated his mind. Galen watched with his own eyes the murder of his father Kento Marek and that had to have had a profound affect on his mind. Afterall, Vader did tell him that it was the Emperor's fault.

Gideon you just gave me information that I didn't know - mastery of the Force vs midichlorian count. Thanks - didn't know it. But Anakin/Vader had powerful FP and that could knock Galen off balance unless he countered with FR. But you do raise a point - the Vader that trained Galen was not the Vader in ROTS.

Anakin has the most raw Force Potential ever. But, apparently, Marek had enough to be the Emperor's equal, if the words he speaks in the DS ending are valid.

It's non-canon.

I know it is, but still. Should we not even consider it, then?

There is certainly merit to the idea that Marek's potential exceeded Palpatine's, but the quote can't be used as justification for it.

Thank God.

Why? Marek exceeding or matching the Emperor's potential doesn't contradict anything... does it?

I think if it was ever confirmed, it could provide fodder to any author wishing to resurrect Marek. Have him and Palpatine duke it out in some untold story of the Civil War which results in Marek transferring his power to Luke or something gay like that.

From what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong, only Bane, Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Jacen/Caedus and brielfly Anakin Solo were the only ones able to tap into the raw Force. Now with the TFU, it appears that Galen Marek is able to touch the raw power, but did not have mastery of it like Sidious. When Galen sacrificed himself on the DS, he probably as strong as Luke if not a little more when Luke became a Jedi in ROTJ. Over the years, he would become stronger in the Force - maybe even Kyp's equal.

I'm getting off track here, but back to Anakin/Vader vs Galen Marek. Lucien and Gideon are right - making Garek Sidious equal would be dumb. Sidious was stronger than Vader by miles. In the last few seconds of Galen's life, he became his equal by touching the raw power of the Force. But Sidious survived and Galen didn't. That has to show how much power and mastery of the Force Sidious wielded.

I would hate it if Galen suddenly reappeared like Calista because I wouldn't want to see someone who sacrificed himself back in the storyline. That would ruin his story and the continuing saga of Star Wars.

Luke wasn't that great in RotJ compared to Galen in terms of Force mastery.

Not even close, to be precise.

Remember Galen had two jedi parents

Luke or even Anakin didn't have two, Galen was unique

Um, that's completely irrelevant. But okay.

Darth Rex is partially right - Galen's midichlorian count would be (possibly) significantly larger, but as Gideon pointed out a high midichlorian count doesn't control Force mastery. Lucien is also correct by the fact that Luke's mastery of the Force in ROTJ did not compare to Galen's when Galen was killed.

When I relate Galen to Kyp's potential, I mean in LOTF. By then Luke, would be stronger than Galen - that's a given. Luke is of the Anakin/Vader bloodlines. Luke was schooled and self-taught mostly in the light. Galen was schooled primarily in the dark, but Rohm Kota despite his connection to the Force severed, became Galen's Master.

If it was Galen facing Vader again in ROTJ with more training in the light, he would easily defeat Vader. Luke had to use the dark side to defeat Vader, but refused to fight Sidious/Palpatine. Question is, would he turn on Sidious/Palpatine? Luke didn't cause he was to self-righteous by becoming a Jedi.

Yes, the count might be possibly higher, but the fact that he has two Jedi parents has nothing to do with it. There is probably more than one Jedi who's had two Force-sensitive parents and is no-where near as powerful as Anakin (or Luke, for that matter), who didn't even have a single Force-sensitive parent. That's my point.

Good rebuttal, but Galen had more control and mastery of the Force than Luke in ROTJ. Unfortunately at the time, Galen was dead. Galen did defeat Vader in lightsaber and the Force without using the dark side. Vader trained a weapon of the Force - someone who truly was able to "unleash the Force." Apparently, Galen was able to touch the raw untamed power of the Force at times. Anakin/Vader never did.

Anakin/Vader was stated as having the highest midichlorian count ever recorded, but Obi-Wan, Galen, Dooku and Luke were the only one's able to defeat him. Only Galen and Dooku through the Force. Galen had more Force mastery than Vader.

Exactly. Galen had way more training than Luke had by the time of ROTJ. Replace Galen with Luke. Luke would be as equally powerful (if not more) than him.

LOL, what are you arguing? We seem to agree.

I disagree with you that Luke was as strong as Galen in ROTJ. If Galen survived, Sidious/Palpatine might I say again might be distracted by the fact that the Force user Vader trained was growing stronger in the ways of the Force daily. He would be more of a threat to him than the Rebellion. His precious Mara would easily be defeated by the sheer power Galen could summon so the Emperor's Hand won't work. Bounty hunters wouldn't be able to capture him and certainly not Vader because by that time Galen had surpassed his mastery of the Force.

Luke however would return from his tutalege from Yoda and would have to face Vader right. Luke had to use the dark side to defeat Vader. Nearly forgot this - Luke didn't have any experience fighting Jedi. Galen did. The power Luke demonstrated in ROTJ pales in comparison to Galen. Luke didn't know FR or how to tap into the raw untamed Force. Galen does.

I never said Luke was as strong as Galen by ROTJ...

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Luke wasn't that great in RotJ compared to Galen in terms of Force mastery.
Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
Not even close, to be precise.

Sorry - forgot about that one part of your text. When Galen defeated Vader in front of the Emperor, Sidious/Palpatine had to be in a little bit of disbelief. But when Galen rejected the offer to become the Emperor's apprentice and demonstrated his ability to tap into the raw Force, Luke in ROTJ must have been seen as feeble. He wasn't capable of stopping FL like Galen. So the Emperor wasn't as worried as when he had to deal with Galen.

Originally posted by Gideon
Marek's command of the Force is demonstrably much higher and more profound than Anakin's. As the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia states rather explicitly, a high collection of midichlorians isn't enough to secure great power for a Force user; it requires meditation and study in order to master. Vader trained Marek by pushing his limits relentlessly -- the Jedi Order didn't use such barbaric methods.

Then clearly Starkiller is above Yoda since the Jedi don't use such methods.
Not.

Anakin's midichlorian count does count for something and that's just obvious. His reserves of Force power are that much greater and when he loses control, he crushes buildings by accident.

All the focus, meditation and jacking off in the world won't let most Jedi even come close to Anakin in terms of power simply because of his raw potential.

Starfailure isn't that great.

Your tone is inappropriate considering you're reviving a thread that's been dead for six months to sneer at people who know more about the subject at hand than you do.

You're tone is inappropriate as you're assuming you know anything about me which I'm afraid you do not. Thus your opinion of what I do or do not know is not worth anything.

The quote is simply contradicted by facts. Is Anakin the meditating type? Has he mastered the Force on the level of older Jedi? Nope. Would he still murderrate most of the Council by himself? Yes.

Because raw power is enough. This has been proven time and time agian. As far back as ROTJ when a barely trained Luke defeated and nearly killed Vader who had twice as much experience and training as the farmboy. Why? Because Luke used his raw force potential by tapping into his anger. As GL said, the dark side is the stronger side.

You can train all you want but it won't matter next to raw potential.

Originally posted by Luminatus
You're tone is inappropriate as you're ASSuming you know anything about me which I'm afraid you do not. Thus your opinion of what I do or do not know is not worth anything.
His opinion didn't involve knowing anything about you, but about the tone you choose to use in your posts which I'm afraid, isn't subject to a different interpretation. Thus your belief that anyone cares to know the "real you", is unfounded.


If you're arguing quotes, you've already lost.


Enough for what? Whom? I didn't know you were qualified enough to make this claim.



Except you'd be 100% wrong. There's too many examples to name.

I think I'm fully qualified to say what is blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain. or did Luke win over Vader, did Anakin win over Dooku, did Kun win over Vodo, due to the former three's superior experience and skills at meditation? lol



I've named 3 examples. You've named none. So I hope you can pull out some of those examples.

Not like it matters. your claim I'm 100% wrong is in direct contradiction to 3 examples I've already listed. You've already lost.

Originally posted by Luminatus
I think I'm fully qualified to say what is blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain. or did Luke win over Vader, did Anakin win over Dooku, did Kun win over Vodo, due to the former three's superior experience and skills at meditation? lol



I've named 3 examples. You've named none. So I hope you can pull out some of those examples.

Not like it matters. your claim I'm 100% wrong is in direct contradiction to 3 examples I've already listed. You've already lost. I've disagreed with you before, but these last few posts have killed any respect I had for you.

Raw power is one factor is a fight. Go read Zahn's trilogy. Thrawn demonstrated quite sufficiently that raw power and brute force CAN be outmaneuveered and defeated by intelligence, tactics, and strategy. Our own history provided enough evidence of that--the Spartans at Thermopylae, Caesar at Alesia, the guerrillas of the American Revolution, the success of the Flying Tigers. In order to win via raw power and brute force, you require a key figure: overwhelming brute force, something which doesn't exist in the match-up.


If you had read further in to the subject, you'd remember that Anakin had not yet reached his potential. He wasn't even on par with Palpatine yet, never mind the 200% Lucas gave us. Having the potential to do or be something is ultimately moot when you don't fulfill it. There's a dissembled doomsday machine in my garage, and only I have the know-how to put it together. But I slipped stepping out of the shower and now the knowledge is lost.



From Wiktionary---potential:

As a noun
1.) Currently unfulfilled capacity to improve, develop, and achieve impressive feats.

2.) Anything that may be possible; a possibility; potentiality.

As an adverb
1.) Existing in possibility, not in actuality.



As Luke said to Katarn in Jedi Outcast concerning the much more numerous and quite dangerous Reborn, "...we've got an advantage due to our training and... discipline."

The insubordinate poster's use of sarcasm disturbs me. He or she may simply be out purely for attention, perhaps thinking that by defying us that he or she will gain the recognition that he or she feels that he or she is entitled to.

I'll bite, just this once, if only to establish that the insubordinate poster is an idiot.

And then, should he or she continue in his or her spree of idiocy, we shall promptly place said user on ignore.

"The Jedi Knights discovered that the Force was accessible to all living beings through the presence of midi-chlorians in their cells. The more midi-chlorians inhabiting a being's cells, the more the being was able to connect to the Force. However, a high concentration of midi-chlorians did not guarantee a being control of the Force. Only through intense study and dedicated training could one become proficient in harnessing the power of the Force."

-- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Volume I (A-G), page 285.



You're incompetent. No one denied that demonstrations of the Force through raw aggression were impressive; but the particular feat (which was the destruction of the building's roof) was unimpressive compared to Marek's manipulating the descent of a Star Destroyer. And, lest we forget, it proved disasterous for him.

And reserves of Force power are a constant.

Originally posted by Eminence
Your tone is inappropriate considering you're reviving a thread that's been dead for six months to sneer at people who know more about the subject at hand than you do.

Arrogance anyone?

Originally posted by Darth Sevius
Arrogance anyone?

Well he was implying that Gideon knew more about the subject than Luminatus so it's not arrogance as much as it is fact.

There's a lot of "your knowledge is so ****ing insignificant compared to mine that you really shouldn't even bother posting in this forum, ya ****ing noob" talk around here. It's both hilarious and disturbing all at the same time.

Originally posted by Eminence


That's right Eminence. And the proof is in the chocolate ****ing pudding. Yum!!!

And there's more.

Originally posted by Darth Sevius
That's right Eminence. And the proof is in the chocolate ****ing pudding. Yum!!!

And there's more. Please don't tell me you're Batman...

Originally posted by Eminence
Please don't tell me you're Batman...

He can't be Batman...

....Becuase Nebaris I am Batman!!! SFX-'Dun da dunnnnnn!!!'

http://www.radiowaves.co.uk/media/resources/radiowaves_live/images/blog/42518/bat-man-dog_rot_rot_rot_rot.jpg

Feel Terror and Despair!

Originally posted by Nephthys
....Becuase Nebaris I am Batman!!! SFX-'Dun da dunnnnnn!!!'

http://www.radiowaves.co.uk/media/resources/radiowaves_live/images/blog/42518/bat-man-dog_rot_rot_rot_rot.jpg

Feel Terror and Despair!

Imposter!!! I am the Batman!

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Wait, I thought I was the Batman...