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Maclaine thinks he's solo again in another hijacking incident. but he's not alone. Riggs is also in the building but unfortunately for both loose canons, neither knows the other is a cop and both are the shoot first, ask questions later variety. Both are armed with their usual Berreta92s and are on the top floors of the highrise. lots of cover.

there are two parts to it:
-gun fight
-fist fight

who wins?

McClane for both both, the man is a fvckin legend.

Great set up though, just to bad it's so one sided

Maclaine is winning this, dude took down a buncha terrorists by himself and damn he did it well I love die hard

Did this one a while back, Sado.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=484247&highlight=McClaine+Riggs

Yeah, McClane eats terrorists for breakfast and shits out middle fingers by lunch time, which conveiniently enough, he uses to disrespect his boss'

McClane took out an entire building of bad guys, Dude was inside of an airplane that expladed, he took down an airplane full of terrorists while saving an entire airport and a sky full people. Shit, i even gotten to thie third movie yet and i haven't finished his feats from the horrible, but classic Die Hard 2. Don't even make me talk about the time McClane dropped a fighter jet with a semi truck

what has Riggs done again...,killed a couple bad guys and drove a car really fast through traffic? Oh, i forgot, he can also get out of straight jackets
As much as i love Riggs, this match is like asking, who is cooler,Clint Eastwood or Tobey Maguire ?

and stop saying McClaine it's..,McClane god dammit

people, Maclane (happy?) is a great cop and an undeniable legend. but this isn't a popularity contest. between the two i also think Maclane is cooler and WAY more popular but look at their experience.

Maclane:
-cop training
-has an odd luck of being stuck with terrorists in buildings, cities or airports.
-no MA training

Riggs:
-vietnam vet
-MA expert
-"certified lethal weapon"
-sniper training
-black ops
-IMO better endurance

when it comes to experience, Riggs>Maclane. Maclane has a chance against Riggs in a gunfight but IMO he's going down hard in a h2h fight. Riggs took down war vets and even smacked around Jet Li when he went berserk. and compared to what: Maclane getting smacked around by a skinny asian chick?
honestly, Maclane was not much of a fighter. in both Diehard and Diehard 2 he had trouble with just one terrorist flunkie h2h, while Riggs was taking down several by himself and even the main bad guys on his own.
and if Riggs goes berserk.....Maclane is in a world of hurt.

Gunfight: Riggs 6/10
H2h: Riggs 9/10

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
people, Maclane (happy?)

It's McClane...

He does strike me as a character who has feats based on luck more so than true skill though.

Originally posted by Sado22
people, Maclane (happy?) is a great cop and an undeniable legend. but this isn't a popularity contest. between the two i also think Maclane is cooler and WAY more popular but look at their experience.

Maclane:
-cop training
-has an odd luck of being stuck with terrorists in buildings, cities or airports.
-no MA training

Riggs:
-vietnam vet
-MA expert
-"certified lethal weapon"
-sniper training
-black ops
-IMO better endurance

when it comes to experience, Riggs>Maclane. Maclane has a chance against Riggs in a gunfight but IMO he's going down hard in a h2h fight. Riggs took down war vets and even smacked around Jet Li when he went berserk. and compared to what: Maclane getting smacked around by a skinny asian chick?
honestly, Maclane was not much of a fighter. in both Diehard and Diehard 2 he had trouble with just one terrorist flunkie h2h, while Riggs was taking down several by himself and even the main bad guys on his own.
and if Riggs goes berserk.....Maclane is in a world of hurt.

Gunfight: Riggs 6/10
H2h: Riggs 9/10

~Sado

Dude, i would say that your argument has some weight but consider some of the terrorists that McClane has dispatched. Special forces, mercenaries and ex spies. McClane never takes down just one badass villain he is taking down five at a time and sometimes a boat or plane full. Riggs is a montster, for sure but McClane is simply on another plane.

I think it's pretty god damn safe to say that John McClane has achieved "lethal weapon" status. The fact that McClane is as badass as he is without ever having the training that Riggs went through speaks volumes about his natural ability to make shit dead and survive. And dude, how can you say that Riggs has better endurance...,did you see any of the Die Hard movies? In the first movie he is constantly running up a skyscraper while getting into fist fights and gun fights, oh yeah and he did all of that whilst having bloody and eviscerated feet. In Die Hard 3 he raced back and forth New York city, constantly stopping terrorist attacks.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Dude, i would say that your argument has some weight but consider some of the terrorists that McClane has dispatched. Special forces, mercenaries and ex spies. McClane never takes down just one badass villain he is taking down five at a time and sometimes a boat or plane full. Riggs is a montster, for sure but McClane is simply on another plane.

I think it's pretty god damn safe to say that John McClane has achieved "lethal weapon" status. The fact that McClane is as badass as he is without ever having the training that Riggs went through speaks volumes about his natural ability to make shit dead and survive. And dude, how can you say that Riggs has better endurance...,did you see any of the Die Hard movies? In the first movie he is constantly running up a skyscraper while getting into fist fights and gun fights, oh yeah and he did all of that whilst having bloody and eviscerated feet. In Die Hard 3 he raced back and forth New York city, constantly stopping terrorist attacks.

His feet were fine until they shot the glass....those bastards

I remember that first terrorist he killed when he fell down some stairs with him and broke the guys neck and then he tried on the guys shoes and complains about how out of all the terrorists in the world he had to get the one with smaller feet than his

Originally posted by Sado22

Maclane:
-cop training
-has an odd luck of being stuck with terrorists in buildings, cities or airports.
-no MA training

Riggs:
-vietnam vet
-MA expert
-"certified lethal weapon"
-sniper training
-black ops
-IMO better endurance

when it comes to experience, Riggs>Maclane. Maclane has a chance against Riggs in a gunfight but IMO he's going down hard in a h2h fight. Riggs took down war vets and even smacked around Jet Li when he went berserk. and compared to what: Maclane getting smacked around by a skinny asian chick?
honestly, Maclane was not much of a fighter. in both Diehard and Diehard 2 he had trouble with just one terrorist flunkie h2h, while Riggs was taking down several by himself and even the main bad guys on his own.
and if Riggs goes berserk.....Maclane is in a world of hurt.

Gunfight: Riggs 6/10
H2h: Riggs 9/10

~Sado

McClane is no airs and graces form-obsessed fighter, but those powerful straight shots kicks and hooks are generally all he has needed ever.

He has the creative thinking and luck to turn it around too:
Yeah that skinny asian chick was using MA and wound up very nicely "with a truck up her ass" for her troubles too.

Beware a mad Riggs..? Well what McClain's "going berserk"...? Chopped liver...?
Never mess with McClane when he has a bad hangover.

McClains endurance cannot be questioned. He looks like hammered shit at the end of his battles, but so does Riggs.

The 'certified lethal weapon' thing was just a throwaway (after youve named the movie after it) half serious line from Murtaugh and would fall under your 'MMA training' bullet point anyhow.

And how often did Riggs use that sniper's rifle on screen...?
And didnt he get caught whilst doing it during that one time...?

McClane's thing is more to shoot you repeatedly in the balls (through
a table!!!!) and then make the kind of sarcastic comment that you'd wish you were still alive to refute.

F*** being beaten by McClane. Its not the pain... but the fear of being beaten like that AND joked about like that in front of whoever.
'Cause McClane has the best verbal abuse and sense of humour.
He'd humiliate you more whilst you a forced off of your mortal coil.

Oh Riggs is so much better cause he is tough enough to have killed killed war vets...?
Look what McClane'll do to a whole lift of armed killers in DH3.
Look at how many special forces guys he killed in DH2.
Way more than Riggs managed in LW1.
Was Karl in DH1 not a trained killer...?

Riggs used a cop car to break a wall in the front room of the Murtaugh family home at xmas.

McClane uses cars to shoot down helicopters.




Excellent Vs thread, btw.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

He has the creative thinking and luck to turn it around too:
Yeah that skinny asian chick was using MA and wound up very nicely "with a truck up her ass" for her troubles too.


Cmon dude, she threw a few weak-ass white-belt level kicks.

And paid with her life with an amusing automotive proctology session..

Karl in DH1 had more success cause he didnt fight like that.

(She used more than just kicks, although MA vs real world, McClaine's shorter-more-to-the-point techniques often will be the more effective, rather than big Bruce Lee Manga Matrix style moves anyhow. If it was real life, she'd have been sparked out after the 1st clean shot by McClane. Her only real 'advantage' there was speed.)

Riggs pwns in both scenarios. He fought Jet Li and dealt a significant amount of damage. Sure, if Murtaugh had not intervened and made a shiskabob outta Jet Li, Riggs might have been beaten, but how well would McLaine have done? We saw in Die Hard 2 what happens when McLaine takes on a trained martial artist, he gets pwned. Not to mention Maggie Q pwning his ass in 4. And remember in Lethal Weapon 2 when Riggs comes out of the water and kills those two germans in seconds hand to hand?

And a gun battle? Riggs is a deadeye. McLaine justs points his weapon in the general direction of the bad guys and unloads. if you watch the directors cut of Lethal Weapon, Riggs takes on a sniper and blasts him from like 50 to 60 feet away with his Beretta.

Also, what someone mentioned earlier:

Maclane:
-cop training
-has an odd luck of being stuck with terrorists in buildings, cities or airports.
-no MA training

Riggs:
-vietnam vet
-MA expert
-"certified lethal weapon"
-sniper training
-black ops
-IMO better endurance

damn it


ditto.


and how many of them did he kill in a direct gunfight without help?
diehard one, he had trouble taking down ONE terrorist in a straight fight and only got lucky cuz when they fell down the stairs the guy snapped his neck. it wasn't skill on McClane's part but luck. and that guy was no vietnam vet, black orps and certified lethal weapon but still McClane was having trouble. in DH2 again he was having trouble with just one guy and in DH1, when the second main bad guy and he got into a tussle, John only survived because he got lucky again. and need i mention one more time that McClane was getting smacked around by ONE girl.
Riggs was stalemating Jet Li during his berserker rage in LW4.....and by then he was "too old for this shite".
Riggs>John in h2h.


i'm not taking anything from McClane's survival instinct and determination. he's one of my all-time favorite movie characters. Riggs took down the entire South African cartel at the end of Lethal Weapon2 and he was doing it solo for the most part of it, Martaugh only took down a few of them. in Lethal Weapon3, Riggs again took down an entire cartel. heck, he had his home raided with a whole platoon of soldiers and even a chopper while he was having sex and he killed them all and escaped (lethal weapon2). at least John was never the target (aside from DH3 where Simon was only toying with him and could've killed him at any point if he wanted to) and that has always been his biggest luck= the bad guys never see HIM coming.
DH, no one was counting on him being there. and its not that he took on ALL the soldiers at one time. he was fighting 3-4 people at max. same in DH2 and the same in DH3. compare that to Riggs who literally walked inside the room of the main badguy in LW2, smacked around his heavily armed guards without even firing a shot and walked out clean. he did that again in LW3 where he took down several minions usig plain h2h. Mclane couldn't take down ONE.

John has no h2h feats though.


Diehard=8 times
Diehard2=4 times
Diehard3=7times
Diehard4=2times

Lethal Weapon=5 times
Lethal Weapon2=12 times (one of my fav movies, sue me)
Lethal Weapon3 =3 times
Lethal Weapon4=6 times


i'm talking endurance. not stamina. and John got lots of rest time. in fact, at times he could go up to long times without getting into fights. the most trauma John has taken is getting glass in his feet and a couple of stitches. his only really impressive endurance feat was surviving the train wreck in DH3 which was very cool.

Riggs:
-dislocated his shoulder (Lethal Weapon1)
-Electricuted for long periods of time
-tied up and beaten the hell out of
-dragged 15blocks on a road
-nearly drowned
-fallen several stories
-shot several times (on the back, chest, stomach and he even mentions that one bullet was in his lungs)
-several car crashes
and right after all of them he just went ahead and started fighting. heck after getting beaten up badly and electrocuted for hours, he escaped, killed most of the badguys in building without any places to hide and use for cover, saved Martaugh and his daughter, chased after the badguy's car across town, got into more gunfights, and then got into a h2h fight with the main badguy>>John having getting plenty of places to hide (even having enough time to talk to the cop) and never having to take on more than 5 guys at a time with lots of places for cover.

~Sado

I discounted the 'Lethal Weapon' bit.
It was just Murtaugh's line/opinion.
The Weapon would not have been anyless Lethal if McClane had been in it. The death toll would have been if anything much higher.

McClane wastes more motherf***ers. Period.

Riggs gets owned too at various points in the films.

And what good is Jungle combat experience against McClane in a non-jungle envioronment...?

Yeah I prefer the directors cut.
He also nearly gets his ass shot clean off letting the (not very good) sniper give his position away, the takes a nice long aim and has to empty his clip. It wasnt a first shot hitting the guy situation.

And McClanes list is woefully short there. Its should be more like:

Cop Training.
Experienced in anti-terrorism.
Experienced in hand to hand combat.
(with numerous victories against MMAers, Special Forces, Mercenaries, huge great hulks etc)
Argueably more prolific a killer on the battlefield than Riggs:
Killed a dangerous international group of thieves mercs and killers in LA.
Killed A drugbaron dictator, a group of terrorists demanding his release, another highly trained squad of Pentagon Special forces
along with half of the structure of Dulles airport.
Killed a second larger, more organised crew of Terrorists/robbers
all over New York.. and maybe that mime.
Killed more people up and down the eastern seaboard than Riggs and Murtaugh did in LW 1 and 4 combined.
He has also taken out Cars, Trucks, Helicopters, Military fighter Jets, Large passenger jets, even the lower floors of Nakatomi towers with that C4... anything to get his opponent in a gratuitously violent manner that scores as much colateral damage as possible.

And McClane did the killing himself.

Also, its worth noting that they both faced off against that "Endo" guy.

The Riggs approach was:
To let the guy tie him up, strip him half naked, wet him and electrocute him several times before finally he kicks Endo in the face and chokes him out with his legs.

The McClane approach was:
Open a door and shoot Endo 6 times before he could say a word.

Nuff said.



Great thread, BTW.

I had thought about this before.
Especially at Xmas, when I tend to watch both the Xmas movies that are LW1 and DH1.

thanks mate


how many terrorists did he kill in DH? 10? Riggs killed 10 in his torture scene. Martin kills way more than John dude.


proved otherwise above.


Riggs always takes down topnotch assassins and war criminals. even the dude he took down in 3 was the best the police had to offer.


killed political scum AND ALL his goons.


which would never have happened, if Simon had decided to kill McClane the million times he had the chance but wanted to just toy with him. heck, he had him tied up but didn't kill him. that's not a feat for John as much as its a stupidity feat for Simon Gruber.


you talking about DH3? he killed 2 people and got caught. in fact, he plain and simple just gave up and let them tie him up.


he destroys the bottom floor of a skyscrapper to kill 10 terrorists? While Riggs takes down 10 with a handgun.
Riggs=precise. trained. true killer
McClane=gung-ho

of course, that makes John more fun to watch though and you are 100% right about the oneliners of his. that's why everyone loves John and that's if DH5 comes out people would still watch it. but these do little to make him live against someone like Riggs.

~Sado

I noticed that it was mentioned earlier that John just unloads his weapon on terrorists, thats actually wrong...remember in DH1 in the scene where he has to save his wife he was able to shoot the guy who was holding her and in the same time catch that other guy in the head, thats not unloading thats good aim so riggs may have a good aim but so does John Not trying to say that makes him better than Riggs just trying to point out a fact that John can aim

Originally posted by Sado22
thanks mate


how many terrorists did he kill in DH? 10? Riggs killed 10 in his torture scene. Martin kills way more than John dude.


proved otherwise above.


Riggs always takes down topnotch assassins and war criminals. even the dude he took down in 3 was the best the police had to offer.


killed political scum AND ALL his goons.


which would never have happened, if Simon had decided to kill McClane the million times he had the chance but wanted to just toy with him. heck, he had him tied up but didn't kill him. that's not a feat for John as much as its a stupidity feat for Simon Gruber.


you talking about DH3? he killed 2 people and got caught. in fact, he plain and simple just gave up and let them tie him up.


he destroys the bottom floor of a skyscrapper to kill 10 terrorists? While Riggs takes down 10 with a handgun.
Riggs=precise. trained. true killer
McClane=gung-ho

of course, that makes John more fun to watch though and you are 100% right about the oneliners of his. that's why everyone loves John and that's if DH5 comes out people would still watch it. but these do little to make him live against someone like Riggs.

~Sado QFT...Riggs pwns 10/10 and 10/10.

good point actually.

Originally posted by Sado22
good point actually. I meant in general, all McLaine does is point and spray. Plus dude was like ten feet away, while the sniper Riggs pwned was a good 50 to 60 feet away.

Originally posted by Sado22
good point actually.

Thanks


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I meant in general, all McLaine does is point and spray. Plus dude was like ten feet away, while the sniper Riggs pwned was a good 50 to 60 feet away.

Yeah but it's like you say he's had all this training that MaClane hasn't. The point is MaClane was still able to make 2 good shots and still hit a guy that was holding his wife close to him, there was still a chance that he could hit his wife rather than the guy who was holding her so to hit him rather than his wife I'd say that was pretty good aim, plus he had to do it fast so that he could hit both men and save his wife.

Originally posted by steverules_2
Thanks




Yeah but it's like you say he's had all this training that MaClane hasn't. The point is MaClane was still able to make 2 good shots and still hit a guy that was holding his wife close to him, there was still a chance that he could hit his wife rather than the guy who was holding her so to hit him rather than his wife I'd say that was pretty good aim, plus he had to do it fast so that he could hit both men and save his wife. Hitting someone ten feet away with a handgun is easy. Dude on McLaines right was caught off guard, he thought McLaine was unarmed. Holly had stepped out of the line of fire so John had a clean shot at Hans. Riggs could have done that in his sleep.


8uiDMikbIfs&feature=related


Funny haermm

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane is no airs and graces form-obsessed fighter, but those powerful straight shots kicks and hooks are generally all he has needed ever.

He has the creative thinking and luck to turn it around too:
Yeah that skinny asian chick was using MA and wound up very nicely "with a truck up her ass" for her troubles too.

Beware a mad Riggs..? Well what McClain's "going berserk"...? Chopped liver...?
Never mess with McClane when he has a bad hangover.

McClains endurance cannot be questioned. He looks like hammered shit at the end of his battles, but so does Riggs.

The 'certified lethal weapon' thing was just a throwaway (after youve named the movie after it) half serious line from Murtaugh and would fall under your 'MMA training' bullet point anyhow.

And how often did Riggs use that sniper's rifle on screen...?
And didnt he get caught whilst doing it during that one time...?

McClane's thing is more to shoot you repeatedly in the balls (through
a table!!!!) and then make the kind of sarcastic comment that you'd wish you were still alive to refute.

F*** being beaten by McClane. Its not the pain... but the fear of being beaten like that AND joked about like that in front of whoever.
'Cause McClane has the best verbal abuse and sense of humour.
He'd humiliate you more whilst you a forced off of your mortal coil.

Oh Riggs is so much better cause he is tough enough to have killed killed war vets...?
Look what McClane'll do to a whole lift of armed killers in DH3.
Look at how many special forces guys he killed in DH2.
Way more than Riggs managed in LW1.
Was Karl in DH1 not a trained killer...?

Riggs used a cop car to break a wall in the front room of the Murtaugh family home at xmas.

McClane uses cars to shoot down helicopters.




Excellent Vs thread, btw.




"shoots repeatedly in balls"

I really don't know how much Riggs' training benefits him here. McClane kills terrorists that have more extensive military training than Riggs all the time.

Riggs did take out jet li, but McClane took out Alan Rickman, Jeremy Irons and that crazy Russian Chick (god she is hot).

I think the next time someone makes this thread it should ask who could survive longer whilst standing naked in the Bronx with a sandwhich board that says I hate Niiggers.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hitting someone ten feet away with a handgun is easy. Dude on McLaines right was caught off guard, he thought McLaine was unarmed. Holly had stepped out of the line of fire so John had a clean shot at Hans. Riggs could have done that in his sleep.


8uiDMikbIfs&feature=related


Funny haermm

McClane always makes those miracle shots though. He does it a couple times in every movie. The most impressive one though comes at the end of Die Hard with a Vengeance. McClane had one bullet left and he shot the wire on the power line which broke away and fvcked up Sir Irons' helicopter. You also have to remember, McClane has no military training what so ever, yet he can do all of these wonderful things.

The movies never really delve that far back into McLaines history, do they?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The movies never really delve that far back into McLaines history, do they?

it's McClane god dammit


lol, not that i can remember. For some reason i want to say that he has been in the military but considering how young he was in the first movie i doubt that.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
it's McClane god dammit


lol, not that i can remember. For some reason i want to say that he has been in the military but considering how young he was in the first movie i doubt that.

OK it seems that Riggs pwns H2H (To deny this is lunacy.), and that in a gunfight, 5/5 (Even though I believe Riggs owns both 10/10.)

Lets talk toughness. Who, in your opinion, is tougher?

Sorry, I just had to post this:

WyfiiDvRFFo&feature=related


haermm

more trained than riggs? i doubt it. the people he killed in DH1 were not that fine trained killers. in Dh2 they were cartel terrorists and the one h2h fight he had in that, McClane was getting pwned. in DH3 was the one time he was fighting mercenaries. and in DH4 he was fighting terrorists again.

Riggs is:
-fought in vietnam at the age of 19
-vietnam vet
-sniper training
-demolition expert (though he f0cked up in LW3 cuz it had been too long )
-black ops
-LYPD training

NO ONE that McClane fought had this much training. and people with far less were pwning him hand to hand.


Riggs. he's taken more abuse over the years. McClane has never even been shot. Riggs had a whole clip emptied on him at the end of 2. he's been stabbed, fell of buildings, gone through car crashes, been dragged across the road for 15 blocks, survived explosions, shot several times, nearly drowned, electrocuted and tortured for hours>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>John having to walk on glass barefoot

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
more trained than riggs? i doubt it. the people he killed in DH1 were not that fine trained killers. in Dh2 they were cartel terrorists and the one h2h fight he had in that, McClane was getting pwned. in DH3 was the one time he was fighting mercenaries. and in DH4 he was fighting terrorists again.

Riggs is:
-fought in vietnam at the age of 19
-vietnam vet
-sniper training
-demolition expert (though he f0cked up in LW3 cuz it had been too long )
-black ops
-LYPD training

NO ONE that McClane fought had this much training. and people with far less were pwning him hand to hand.


Riggs. he's taken more abuse over the years. McClane has never even been shot. Riggs had a whole clip emptied on him at the end of 2. he's been stabbed, fell of buildings, gone through car crashes, been dragged across the road for 15 blocks, survived explosions, shot several times, nearly drowned, electrocuted and tortured for hours>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>John having to walk on glass barefoot

~Sado McLaine was shot in the arm in DH1, remember?

Riggs fighting Jet Li, LW4. Badass much?

UyWlbKvh4QY

Particularly from 1:10 to 1:48 . Jet Li's character was ten times the fighter that Maggie Q's was, and McLaine couldn't handle her.

How would McLaine fare against Jet Li?

^ I like the fight scene in the house better, where Jet Li takes them both out even when they both have guns pointed at him. ^^

That wasnt much of a fight scene.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The movies never really delve that far back into McLaines history, do they?

True, other than to say that he was a new york cop of however many years experience he had as a cop, but the excellent but quite different original Walter Wager book's main character was an ex-special forces guy with proper anti terrorist experience. He also was older than Bruce Willis was in DH1.... He was more like his DH4.0 age in it.
Its been nearly 20 years since I read it, but I think McClane was called "Leland" and "McClane" was the name given to the Ellis character.
Holly was his daughter and..............






















*Book spoiler below*




















































The Holly character falls to her death at the end...!











































































*Ends spoilers*

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
McLaine was shot in the arm in DH1, remember?

Not to mention how, in addtion to the fact that Riggs didnt have to do his thing in LW with slashed up feet like McClane did: note often McClane gets smashed into or through things with way more regularity than Riggs, he has the ability to fight off vicious hangovers whilst maiming and killing, we saw him slashed with a broken bottle by angry civvies in DH3 at the beginning, of the movie.
The sheer amount of stuff we see McClane endure as a constant throughout his movies stands up to the more flashy looking stuff Riggs endures on screen.
Even relatively minor injuries like that evil metal splinter in DH3 looked a bit nasty too...


Also I think in a conflict with Riggs, McClane being the kinda guy who uses taunts like: "You shoulda heard your brother squealin'... When I broke his f***ing neck...!!!" would find a way to get under Riggs skin.
Riggs being so troubled could even be flipped into one of his trademark depressions where he could use his 'special bullet' from LW1 to do McClane's work for him.....

I can just see McClane on top of Riggs, punching his head in screaming taunts about how he is gonna beat Riggs around the head with the corpse of his dead wife Victoria.

'Cause McClane'll say any lowdown nasty shit in anger, it seems.

Dude, getting under Riggs skin would worsen the beating McLane receives.

And Riggs took how many .44 rounds from the African guy?

Riggs is just too much for McLane.

McLane didn't really have trouble with Maggie Q, she kicked him around a little and punched him, he then beat the shit outta her and then she got lucky by being able to throw him out of a window And that didn't even seem to slow him down that much, he just got up, got into a car and then the rest is history. And there's the car into the helicopter scene which was incredible. Ok so holly moved outta the way in DH1 but McLane still made two good shots in a short amount of time.

And he had the ingenuity to have used that xmas wrapping tape trick too...! The mans a genius.

Well while I been thinking of this, I noticed that Michael Kamen did both scores for the movies and there are common actors/actresses in both movies also.

Would this clash be sold as:

"Die Weapon" (which makes no sense)

or....


the very suspect sounding "Lethal hard"..?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
True, other than to say that he was a new york cop of however many years experience he had as a cop, but the excellent but quite different original Walter Wager book's main character was an ex-special forces guy with proper anti terrorist experience.

T'was Roderick Thorpe. Not Walter Wager.
Apologies.

Originally posted by steverules_2
McLane didn't really have trouble with Maggie Q, she kicked him around a little and punched him, he then beat the shit outta her and then she got lucky by being able to throw him out of a window And that didn't even seem to slow him down that much, he just got up, got into a car and then the rest is history. And there's the car into the helicopter scene which was incredible. Ok so holly moved outta the way in DH1 but McLane still made two good shots in a short amount of time. Dude, she beat the SHIT outta McLane.

Oh yeah. Riggs. Laos. Nineteen years old. He took a guy out from a 1,000 yards out, rifle shot in high wind.

Just saying.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK it seems that Riggs pwns H2H (To deny this is lunacy.), and that in a gunfight, 5/5 (Even though I believe Riggs owns both 10/10.)

Lets talk toughness. Who, in your opinion, is tougher?

See, even though i think McClane would rape Riggs in the face in both scenario's, i'd give Riggs the better chance in a gunfight. Even though i can't argue that Riggs is probably tougher, i'd say McClane outmatches Riggs by far in endurance and stamina. The Die Hard movie's always take place during a single day or night. McClane displays superhuman like endurance during this time. The Lethal weapon movie's take place over several days. Riggs always gets time to rest and as far as we have seen has never been pushed to the limits that McClane has.

It's no secret that McClane is master of melee but he is always fighting people who are and he always wins. Special military training never seems to be a problem for McClane.

H2H -John 7/10
Gunfight- John 6/10

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, she beat the SHIT outta McLane.

No she didn't...he ended up going through a window, I mean at least he actually KOed her for a few seconds or whatever...McLane got the shit kicked out of him in the first one by that big dude, thats getting the shit kicked outta him right there, what she did wasn't kicking the shit out of him, if he'd been a bloody mess and all that like he was in DH1 then yeah I'd admit she kicked his ass but to me she didn't really do much to consider it to be beating the shit out of him.

yes she did. round one she just beat the heck outta him. in fact he was momentarily out of it. then he BLINDSIDED her. and then she blindsided him, smacked him around and didn't even give him a chance to hit her. the only reason why John walked outta that one was because he got the car in. and he didn't "fall" outta the window. he was kicked out of it in a fight where he was already getting pwned.
this is getting ridiculous, people: the man got beat bad. not to mention that it further proves how he's got nothing going on Riggs in h2h because Riggs was smacked around a fighter who was at least 10 times better than that skinny little biatch.

oh and John got shot in the arm? riggs had a whole clip emptied on him. and PLEASE don't give me that "he had slashed" feet stuff. if riggs can fight right after being electroucted and tortured for hours........he can ignore foot blisters.

~Sado

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
See, even though i think McClane would rape Riggs in the face in both scenario's, i'd give Riggs the better chance in a gunfight. Even though i can't argue that Riggs is probably tougher, i'd say McClane outmatches Riggs by far in endurance and stamina. The Die Hard movie's always take place during a single day or night. McClane displays superhuman like endurance during this time. The Lethal weapon movie's take place over several days. Riggs always gets time to rest and as far as we have seen has never been pushed to the limits that McClane has.

It's no secret that McClane is master of melee but he is always fighting people who are and he always wins. Special military training never seems to be a problem for McClane.

H2H -John 7/10
Gunfight- John 6/10

Originally posted by Sado22
yes she did. round one she just beat the heck outta him. in fact he was momentarily out of it. then he BLINDSIDED her. and then she blindsided him, smacked him around and didn't even give him a chance to hit her. the only reason why John walked outta that one was because he got the car in. and he didn't "fall" outta the window. he was kicked out of it in a fight where he was already getting pwned.
this is getting ridiculous, people: the man got beat bad. not to mention that it further proves how he's got nothing going on Riggs in h2h because Riggs was smacked around a fighter who was at least 10 times better than that skinny little biatch.

oh and John got shot in the arm? riggs had a whole clip emptied on him. and PLEASE don't give me that "he had slashed" feet stuff. if riggs can fight right after being electroucted and tortured for hours........he can ignore foot blisters.

~Sado Yeppers, well said. As I said earlier, Riggs is just WAY too much for McLane to handle. Superior in every possible way.

Originally posted by Sado22
yes she did. round one she just beat the heck outta him. in fact he was momentarily out of it. then he BLINDSIDED her. and then she blindsided him, smacked him around and didn't even give him a chance to hit her. the only reason why John walked outta that one was because he got the car in. and he didn't "fall" outta the window. he was kicked out of it in a fight where he was already getting pwned.
this is getting ridiculous, people: the man got beat bad. not to mention that it further proves how he's got nothing going on Riggs in h2h because Riggs was smacked around a fighter who was at least 10 times better than that skinny little biatch.

oh and John got shot in the arm? riggs had a whole clip emptied on him. and PLEASE don't give me that "he had slashed" feet stuff. if riggs can fight right after being electroucted and tortured for hours........he can ignore foot blisters.

~Sado

Dude, you cannot simply disregard the bloody feet. No one is saying that Riggs could not endure that injury as well but really, that was a very serious injury. It isn't as though he stepped on a few tiny pieces. We saw him picking shards out of his feet which were several inches long. With only a torn short to stop the bleeding he continued on for hours, running and fighting.

If this isn't enough watch Die Hard 3 again. McClane is running back forth the entirety of New York city getting into car crashes, jumping on trains, surviving major explosions, getting blasted into the air a hundred feet and falling a few hundred feet onto a commercial barge. This isn't even taking into consideration all of the hand to hand fights that he got into during that time. McClane has most definitely exhibited a much more impressive display of endurance than Riggs has in all four of the lethal weapons combined. Riggs gets into a foot chase or gun fight and then he is done until the next day or week. McClane runs a god damned gauntlet of hell before he is given the chance for a smoke break. I mean, that big ass Russian was beating on him with a huge fvckin chain, yet he still had enough left in the tank to strangle the man to death...,not an easy feat at all.

As far as the fight with the chick in Die Hard 4. He definitely did get his ass handed to him and he usually does anytime that he has to fight hand to hand but he always wins. McClane was a fifty year old man at that point, considering that Riggs didn't display any outstanding fighting prowess while in his late fourties or early fifties in the fourth die hard, i'm not sure how beneficial it is to compare him to McClane at an even older age. If i remember correctly, Riggs was getting his ass beat in Lethal Weapon 4.

Again, McClane is always fighting people with a record as extensive, if not more so than Riggs and he always conquers them.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Dude, you cannot simply disregard the bloody feet. No one is saying that Riggs could not endure that injury as well but really, that was a very serious injury. It isn't as though he stepped on a few tiny pieces. We saw him picking shards out of his feet which were several inches long. With only a torn short to stop the bleeding he continued on for hours, running and fighting.

If this isn't enough watch Die Hard 3 again. McClane is running back forth the entirety of New York city getting into car crashes, jumping on trains, surviving major explosions, getting blasted into the air a hundred feet and falling a few hundred feet onto a commercial barge. This isn't even taking into consideration all of the hand to hand fights that he got into during that time. McClane has most definitely exhibited a much more impressive display of endurance than Riggs has in all four of the lethal weapons combined. Riggs gets into a foot chase or gun fight and then he is done until the next day or week. McClane runs a god damned gauntlet of hell before he is given the chance for a smoke break. I mean, that big ass Russian was beating on him with a huge fvckin chain, yet he still had enough left in the tank to strangle the man to death...,not an easy feat at all.

As far as the fight with the chick in Die Hard 4. He definitely did get his ass handed to him and he usually does anytime that he has to fight hand to hand but he always wins. McClane was a fifty year old man at that point, considering that Riggs didn't display any outstanding fighting prowess while in his late fourties or early fifties in the fourth die hard, i'm not sure how beneficial it is to compare him to McClane at an even older age. If i remember correctly, Riggs was getting his ass beat in Lethal Weapon 4.

Again, McClane is always fighting people with a record as extensive, if not more so than Riggs and he always conquers them.

McLane needed a TRUCK to beat the asian chick.

Riggs displayed no fighting prowess in his latter years? Did you totally miss the Jet Li fight?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
McLane needed a TRUCK to beat the asian chick.

Riggs displayed no fighting prowess in his latter years? Did you totally miss the Jet Li fight?


what about the German he Strangled in Die Hard 1 and the other big ass German he strangled in Die Hard 3? Dude, McClane took out two Entire Special Forces Units by himself.


Dude, Mertaugh killed jet li in Lethal Weapon 4 right as Jet Li was about to strangle Riggs to death, plus it was two on one.

and hey, dont knock the truck because he also used a truck to take down a fighter jet, so lets call it one of his tools lol

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
what about the German he Strangled in Die Hard 1 and the other big ass German he strangled in Die Hard 3? Dude, McClane took out two Entire Special Forces Units by himself.


Dude, Mertaugh killed jet li in Lethal Weapon 4 right as Jet Li was about to strangle Riggs to death, plus it was two on one.

and hey, dont knock the truck because he also used a truck to take down a fighter jet, so lets call it one of his tools lol And McLane being pwned by the Colonel on the wing of the jumbo jet? What was that? The Colonel wasnt half the fighter Riggs is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And McLane being pwned by the Colonel on the wing of the jumbo jet? What was that? The Colonel wasnt half the fighter Riggs is.

what about that cop that kicked Riggs' ass in that sparing match in Lethal Weapon 4? Besides, McClane eventually took that dude out, in explosive style Here's how it is, see, McClane lost that fight on purpose because he knew he had to get off the plane in order to ignite the jet fuel, so once again, McClane outwitted his enemy

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
what about that cop that kicked Riggs' ass in that sparing match in Lethal Weapon 4? Besides, McClane eventually took that dude out, in explosive style Here's how it is, see, McClane lost that fight on purpose because he knew he had to get off the plane in order to ignite the jet fuel, so once again, McClane outwitted his enemy crylaugh horseshit!!!

John McClane is the luckiest son of a bit*h in the world. He could beat fu*king Galactus if it ever came to that.

i'm not disregarding it. i'm saying its not that impressive as you're making it to be. several inches long? the glasses were not that big honestly. and again, he got plenty of rest time throughout the movie. heck, when he ran into hans he had already spent hours walking around with enough time to smoke, chat with the cop and what not. Riggs's LW1 was way more impressive because he was tortured at ends, broke out and till the end of the movie he did nothing but run and fight. and NO rest.


maclane had help and got plenty of time in between for most part of it. the only time he RAN was when he had to go and diffuse the park bomb. don't forget that he also got immediate medical attention after that train explosion.......and he would've been KILLED right at the beginning of the movie in Harlem hadn't it been for Zeus. as for blasted 100 feet in the air.....he landed in water
Riggs never got medical attention after his torture scene and still went on to do way more than john did. he also took down more people WITHOUT cover.


torture scene and the parts that followed>>anything john's done in all four combined. he got KO'd by a few kicks from a chick, barely won any of his h2h fights and the most damage he's taken was being shot in the arm. i can't help but laugh everytime you try to refute my points by bringing up that "glass in feet" thing.
emptied a whole clip on>>glass in feet
electrocuted for hours>>glass in feet
tortured and beaten up>>glass in feet
fighting jet li and nearly winning>>getting smacked around by a chick
falling down several stories on planks of wood>>falling a few feet into water
taking out entire squad + chopper with a handgun>>taking out 10 people with C4


LW1 ending says otherwise.
LW2 ending says otherwise.


mac got enough time to rest in DH1. and all the other ones. he's never done as many things in a stretch as Riggs has.


Martin wins without having to get his ass kicked for the entire time and then "hulking up" like Hulk Hogan. also John got lucky more often than not. we saw that in DH1, DH2 and DH4.


Riggs was 37 in LW1, 39 in LW2, 42 in LW3 and 48 in LW4. so i beg to differ on this one. even at 48 and officially "too old for this shite" he was beating up Jet Li.


no, he ALWAYS gets lucky. he had to use the truck to beat a chick.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm not disregarding it. i'm saying its not that impressive as you're making it to be. several inches long? the glasses were not that big honestly. and again, he got plenty of rest time throughout the movie. heck, when he ran into hans he had already spent hours walking around with enough time to smoke, chat with the cop and what not. Riggs's LW1 was way more impressive because he was tortured at ends, broke out and till the end of the movie he did nothing but run and fight. and NO rest.


maclane had help and got plenty of time in between for most part of it. the only time he RAN was when he had to go and diffuse the park bomb. don't forget that he also got immediate medical attention after that train explosion.......and he would've been KILLED right at the beginning of the movie in Harlem hadn't it been for Zeus. as for blasted 100 feet in the air.....he landed in water
Riggs never got medical attention after his torture scene and still went on to do way more than john did. he also took down more people WITHOUT cover.


torture scene and the parts that followed>>anything john's done in all four combined. he got KO'd by a few kicks from a chick, barely won any of his h2h fights and the most damage he's taken was being shot in the arm. i can't help but laugh everytime you try to refute my points by bringing up that "glass in feet" thing.
emptied a whole clip on>>glass in feet
electrocuted for hours>>glass in feet
tortured and beaten up>>glass in feet
fighting jet li and nearly winning>>getting smacked around by a chick
falling down several stories on planks of wood>>falling a few feet into water
taking out entire squad + chopper with a handgun>>taking out 10 people with C4


LW1 ending says otherwise.
LW2 ending says otherwise.


mac got enough time to rest in DH1. and all the other ones. he's never done as many things in a stretch as Riggs has.


Martin wins without having to get his ass kicked for the entire time and then "hulking up" like Hulk Hogan. also John got lucky more often than not. we saw that in DH1, DH2 and DH4.


Riggs was 37 in LW1, 39 in LW2, 42 in LW3 and 48 in LW4. so i beg to differ on this one. even at 48 and officially "too old for this shite" he was beating up Jet Li.


no, he ALWAYS gets lucky. he had to use the truck to beat a chick.

~Sado

Uhm John took out a helicopter with a car in no.4 and in no.3 he took one out with one shot to wire which then coursed the helicopter to lose control and crash

i know that already. but how is that more impressive than what Riggs did? riggs did that WHILE being the target and getting caught off guard and alone. John did it with the whole NYPD with him, caught the badguys off guard.

though props for being a great shot in that last scene from DH3.

Originally posted by steverules_2
Uhm John took out a helicopter with a car in no.4 and in no.3 he took one out with one shot to wire which then coursed the helicopter to lose control and crash And Riggs took out a chopper with his Beretta in 2.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Riggs took out a chopper with his Beretta in 2.

Doing it with a car I could imagine is more difficult

Originally posted by Sado22
i know that already. but how is that more impressive than what Riggs did? riggs did that WHILE being the target and getting caught off guard and alone. John did it with the whole NYPD with him, caught the badguys off guard.

though props for being a great shot in that last scene from DH3.

Yes but in no.4 he was the target and took down the chopper by himself

I thought it was a good shot to

Originally posted by steverules_2
Doing it with a car I could imagine is more difficult

And that relates to this fight how? McLane wont have a car, will he? Riggs will have his gun which he used against the chopper.

I'm just making a point that although Riggs has done impressive feats so has John.

That is being acknowledged, and the Riggs supporters are only pointing out the obvious, that Riggs is on a whole different level than McLane.

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm not disregarding it. i'm saying its not that impressive as you're making it to be. several inches long? the glasses were not that big honestly. and again, he got plenty of rest time throughout the movie. heck, when he ran into hans he had already spent hours walking around with enough time to smoke, chat with the cop and what not. Riggs's LW1 was way more impressive because he was tortured at ends, broke out and till the end of the movie he did nothing but run and fight. and NO rest.


maclane had help and got plenty of time in between for most part of it. the only time he RAN was when he had to go and diffuse the park bomb. don't forget that he also got immediate medical attention after that train explosion.......and he would've been KILLED right at the beginning of the movie in Harlem hadn't it been for Zeus. as for blasted 100 feet in the air.....he landed in water
Riggs never got medical attention after his torture scene and still went on to do way more than john did. he also took down more people WITHOUT cover.


torture scene and the parts that followed>>anything john's done in all four combined. he got KO'd by a few kicks from a chick, barely won any of his h2h fights and the most damage he's taken was being shot in the arm. i can't help but laugh everytime you try to refute my points by bringing up that "glass in feet" thing.
emptied a whole clip on>>glass in feet
electrocuted for hours>>glass in feet
tortured and beaten up>>glass in feet
fighting jet li and nearly winning>>getting smacked around by a chick
falling down several stories on planks of wood>>falling a few feet into water
taking out entire squad + chopper with a handgun>>taking out 10 people with C4


LW1 ending says otherwise.
LW2 ending says otherwise.


mac got enough time to rest in DH1. and all the other ones. he's never done as many things in a stretch as Riggs has.


Martin wins without having to get his ass kicked for the entire time and then "hulking up" like Hulk Hogan. also John got lucky more often than not. we saw that in DH1, DH2 and DH4.


Riggs was 37 in LW1, 39 in LW2, 42 in LW3 and 48 in LW4. so i beg to differ on this one. even at 48 and officially "too old for this shite" he was beating up Jet Li.


no, he ALWAYS gets lucky. he had to use the truck to beat a chick.

~Sado


I really don't know how you can say that McClane received sufficient rest in between all of his feats. The first Die Hard occurs almost in real time. He had enough to catch a smoke break yes, but come on man, that was in between running up and down an entire skyscraper and taking out terrorist after terrorist. And those shards of glass, yeah they were fvcking huge.

As for Die Hard 3. With the exception of the last five minutes of the film that entire movie unfolded over the span of several hours. The only medical attention he ever received was some aspirin and a few trivial bandages that offered no kind of support for his injuries. His down time was always interrupted by another call from Jeremy Irons.

I don't really count what happened to him in Harlem because nothing significant happened. That is the only time that Big Sam offered any type of physical assistance to him. As for falling into water after being blasted a hundred feet into the air, that water was nothing more than a puddle. When he feel a few hundred feet onto the cargo ship, there was nothing but steel to break his fall there. After which, he stormed the ship killing nearly all of the terrorists as well as being beat down by a big ass German with a chain that he later strangled to death.

As for John getting lucky, well, maybe but the same can be said for Riggs. There are dozens of situation where he should have died but didnt because he got lucky. You really cannot contribute Johns survivability and endurance to luck because he is ALWAYS observing his surroundings and relying on chance to save his life. It isn't as though he doesnt know what the hell he is doing, he see's that small chance and goes for it. When McClane took out the helicopter with a car, that wasn't luck it was an estimated and well calculated chance. When McClane went slamming through that window from the roof in DH1 that wasn't luck, it was intelligence and balls. When McClane used the wench of that pick up truck to get on the barge in DH3 that wasn't luck, INFACT he got really fvcking unlucky when the wench wire busted. McClane gets no more lucky than Riggs. Constantly getting stuck in the same situation should prove that he is really un god damned lucky and it is only because of his endurance and wits that he is able to get out of the situation alive.

As for Riggs beating the shit out of Jet li. You really need to watch that scene again because other than a couple good punches, Jet li whooped his ass like a sissy cuck boy and was about to kill him before mertaugh saved his life. Oh yeah, and Riggs even points out how his age has affected him after that cop stomps his ass in that boxing match. While Riggs was getting stomped in the boxing ring in his late 40's, McClane was out blowing up fighter jets with trucks.

Again, McClane is ALWAYS taking out special forces soldiers and mercenaries. One more crazy cop with an impressive background will be of no consequence for big john.

I'm rooting for John here but didn't that german guy he strangled actually get shot by the lady? Unless I am thinking of someone else, cause he found out that the gold wasn't on the boat and then he went to the main guy about it saying that he lied to him and the lady and instead of shooting the main guy she shot the german guy thus killing him

no, unless you're talking about someone else. I'm talking about the big ass guy that called john the energizer bunny.

I haven't seen 3 in ages..I just that Targo was killed by Simons woman, I think Targo was the big guy anyways...I even checked on wiki and it says that he was killed by Simon and I know wiki isn't always right but I think it might be in this case since I remember him getting shot...but then there is the chance we are thinking of different people or your talking about DH1 and I have just gotten mixed up somewhere for some reason

Actually, the more i think about it. I don't think John killed him. I think he just beat him down with that chain. for some reason i remember him strangling that dude with the chain. Hmm, i know for certain though that the girl didn't come in and shoot him because McClane didn't get caught until he made it to the captains quarters. but after you mentioned that i remember that she did eventually shoot him. It was after they had gotten off the cargo ship and left John and Zeus to explode.

lets check youtube lol

Yeah thats it! She kills him when they are making an escape

lol yes to youtube

here we go

Xo_CfOLbUrE&feature=related

damn that place has everything lol

Yeah I know lol There was a guy who uploaded the entire Star Wars saga on there and it was there for so long, eventually it was removed and I think he was banned lol Anyways here's part 11 which is where the big german guy gets killed, if you go to about 5 minutes you see the scene in full:

ZA4z9sBLuLQ

the point isn't who won. the point is that Riggs at 48 did better than John ever did in his youth...against a MUCH better opponent. Jet was faster and stronger and younger than he was and he still got him on the ropes. as for what john did........he didn't do ANYTHING that impressive because he was doing it with help and cars. also, just cuz he got lucky at one point doesn't mean that he'll get lucky with Riggs. in fact, luck doesn't count in versus threads because its an unreliable thing. basically you're argument is this:
yeah Riggs has more experience and has done better than john in all his h2h scenes throughout the franchise........but John has been lucky in all his fights and hence he'll win.
it doesn't work this way, dude.

Also, you're making it sound like John just about just walked up to the chopper in DH4 and blew it up. in fact, how does that even compare to Riggs in the first place? we are comparing their H2H skills and their endurance. Riggs took on better opponent at 48 and nearly won, john gets smacked around by a chick. that's what we're comparing. on top of that, the chopper bit and jets had NOTHING to do with his stamina or endurance because:
-he was driving in both cases which doesn't require stamina
-he pretty much drove into the chopper in case one and the most we can talk about endurance is that he jumped out of a speeding car. not THAT impressive given that riggs got DRAGGED by one in a highspeed chase for FIFTEEN blocks. the second case, he jumped from a truck and onto a part of the bridge which has nothing to do with his stamina again. or his enduranc.

will address the other bits at another time.

~Sado

Originally posted by ragesRemorse

Dude, Mertaugh killed jet li in Lethal Weapon 4 right as Jet Li was about to strangle Riggs to death, plus it was two on one.



Yeah the stab that went right through the stomach with the metal pole on pissed of Jet Li didn't kill him. Plus, Rigs and Jet Li fell in the water and thats when Riggs killed Jet Li.

did i say he "won" at any point?
i said he had him on the ropes when he went berserker.

@steverules: love that avatar

Originally posted by Sado22
the point isn't who won. the point is that Riggs at 48 did better than John ever did in his youth...against a MUCH better opponent. Jet was faster and stronger and younger than he was and he still got him on the ropes. as for what john did........he didn't do ANYTHING that impressive because he was doing it with help and cars. also, just cuz he got lucky at one point doesn't mean that he'll get lucky with Riggs. in fact, luck doesn't count in versus

Also, you're making it sound like John just about just walked up to the chopper in DH4 and blew it up. in fact, how does that even compare to Riggs in the first place? we are comparing their H2H skills and their endurance. Riggs took on better opponent at 48 and nearly won, john gets smacked around by a chick. that's what we're comparing. on top of that, the chopper bit and jets had NOTHING to do with his stamina or endurance because:
-he was driving in both cases which doesn't require stamina
-he pretty much drove into the chopper in case one and the most we can talk about endurance is that he jumped out of a speeding car. not THAT impressive given that riggs got DRAGGED by one in a highspeed chase for FIFTEEN blocks. the second case, he jumped from a truck and onto a part of the bridge which has nothing to do with his stamina again. or his enduranc.

will address the other bits at another time.

~Sado

No, Riggs didn't do well against Jet Li at all, man. He got stomped. Aside from a single counter the only time Riggs got a hit on Jet li was when his back was turned. That entire fight was two on one against Jet Li and Riggs got his ass beat. He didn't not almost win, in fact he almost got choked out. If Mertaugh hadn't impaled Jet Li with a pipe Riggs would have died. That chick you are referring to was a badass well trained soldier who was in her prime.

You musn't have seen the Die Hard movie's in a long time because McClane never had help...,NEVER. The only time he had any kind of assistance was from Zeus in Die Hard 3 but Zues did nothing but slow him down. Zues only assisted McClane when he saved him from the gangsters in Harlem. Otherwise, he was not allowed to have any help. If he was given any assistance, Irons would have blown the bombs. Granted he did have help from the kid in Die Hard 4 but again, that kid did nothing in the way of helping McClane fight enemies.

In Die Hard 2 he was working against the police and military to fight the terrorists. In fact one of the special forces units he dispatched was a Rogue American military unit. I'm sorry dude, but ive never seen Riggs destroy two military units by himself.

In Die Hard one he had no assistance. like the other installments he saved the day by himself. He didn't get any help from the cop he spoke with. He was giving the cop information but he actually had to dodge the FBI from killing him in the end.

As for you saying that he used cars to assist him in these feats but Riggs used vehicles as much if not more than McClane. McClane has never had any type of special Ops training, yet he was able to rid an entire building of mercenaries and take out two highly trained special ops teams.

As for the luck aspect. I was only trying to point out that Riggs gets as lucky as McClane. I wasn't trying to present McClanes luck as an advantage.

How does jumping off a bridge onto a barge have nothing to do with stamina and endurance? Seriously, i would like to know. After running and driving around all day and getting into crashes and surviving explosions he jumps a hundred feet and lands on steel. Have you ever been body checked or fallen out of a tree...,yeah that takes a lot out of you man. He also fell with great force because the weight of Zues was pulling him down to the ground. Any and everything that exudes energy has to do with Stamina and endurance.

Originally posted by Bloinky
Yeah the stab that went right through the stomach with the metal pole on pissed of Jet Li didn't kill him. Plus, Rigs and Jet Li fell in the water and thats when Riggs killed Jet Li.

dude, Jet Li was impaled. I'd give Mertaugh that kill or at least an extreme assist because he would have eventually died from that. McClane never received any type of assists like that. Shit, I'm sure i could hold my breath longer than jet li if he were impaled and we were both underwater. Besides, until that point when Mertaugh impaled Li, Riggs had gotten nothing but a single counter on Li and was about to be choked out. Riggs never had Li on "the ropes"

i don't like repeating myself. i already said that riggs got his ass handed to him. in fact, i never even said that riggs beat Jet. all i'm saying is that he had him on the ropes when riggs went berserker........which is way more impressive than getting the drop on a girl and STILL getting your ass kicked. sexism aside, women are phsyically weaker than men. John was twice her size and weight and still got his keister handed to him.
compared to this, Riggs at 48 even getting Jet on the ropes however breifly is better.


die hard3, in the end scene, the whole NYPD was there and got the drop on the terrorists. that's what i was talking about.


he destroyed one in LW1. John doesn't take EVERYONE down himself. he did that only in DH1 and there were only 10 badguys tops. impressive, but not that much especially since HE knew where they were but they didn't. he was practically using guerilla warfare.


i know.


riggs got into more car chases because he was never facing a localized threat. they were always all over town and he had to work his way up the ladder to get to the bad guy. the only time i recall McClane using great gun fighting tactics was in DH2 where he fought the mercs at the airport who had just killed the swat team. that was very impressive but again he had the element of surprise on his side. they didn't see him coming=basic CQC strategy. he also had plenty of cover. Riggs, however, did more than that with no cover (LW1) and about the same in LW3 with some cover.


can you give an example?


okay, so i take you to a building and toss you off. how much of your stamina am i draining? endurance would've mattered but McClane fell lin water. regardless how much it was, it was still water. as for DH3 and falling 100ft.......i think you're stretching it. also IIRC he rolled with the fall which means he had more forward momentum than downward.


if i start listing the number of bumps i've taken over the years i'd put Riggs and McClane to shame. i've just never been shot but just about everything else. the list of bumps i can recall for McClane:
-foot laceration
-shot in the arm later on
-surviving the train crash (about the only one i would count as endurance but he got direct medical attention right after it and plenty of rest time between all the things he did. heck, he only ran once throughout the movie........heck, he stole a kid's bike at one point )
-falling 100ft into a puddle of mud and water ( )
-falling out a highspeed car
-shooting himself in the chest (DH4)

as opposed to:
-electocution for hours
-general pummelling for hours
-NO medical attention after any of his bumps
-having a whole clip emptied on
-dragged from a highspeed car for 15 blocks
-stabbed in the leg and having it pulled up all the lenght of his thigh
-flogged and tossed to drown
-shoulder dislocated per movie
-he also mentions that he got shot in nam IIRC
-not to mention the regular punches and kicks he's soaked
-more car crashes than John (heck, he went through a building and out)
-another car crash in LW2
-fell from a highrise building into a pool
-fell several stories up and onto a plank
-getting mauled by Jet and still coming at 48

so you see, he's got more endurance than John.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
the point isn't who won. the point is that Riggs at 48 did better than John ever did in his youth...against a MUCH better opponent. Jet was faster and stronger and younger than he was and he still got him on the ropes. as for what john did........he didn't do ANYTHING that impressive because he was doing it with help and cars. also, just cuz he got lucky at one point doesn't mean that he'll get lucky with Riggs. in fact, luck doesn't count in versus threads because its an unreliable thing. basically you're argument is this:
yeah Riggs has more experience and has done better than john in all his h2h scenes throughout the franchise........but John has been lucky in all his fights and hence he'll win.
it doesn't work this way, dude.

Also, you're making it sound like John just about just walked up to the chopper in DH4 and blew it up. in fact, how does that even compare to Riggs in the first place? we are comparing their H2H skills and their endurance. Riggs took on better opponent at 48 and nearly won, john gets smacked around by a chick. that's what we're comparing. on top of that, the chopper bit and jets had NOTHING to do with his stamina or endurance because:
-he was driving in both cases which doesn't require stamina
-he pretty much drove into the chopper in case one and the most we can talk about endurance is that he jumped out of a speeding car. not THAT impressive given that riggs got DRAGGED by one in a highspeed chase for FIFTEEN blocks. the second case, he jumped from a truck and onto a part of the bridge which has nothing to do with his stamina again. or his enduranc.

will address the other bits at another time.

~Sado Exactly. McLane wouldnt have lasted near as long against Jet Li, and certainly would not have done near the damage Riggs did, it's not important if Riggs lost or not, his fighting tenacity was displayed, and it far surpasses McLanes.

And a better shot? Hmm.....Well, in LW1, remember when Riggs shoots a smily face on the target?

but don't forget that John had glass in his feet. that automatically shows what a great shot he is
j/k

haermm

The thing thats being overlooked in DH1 by the pro-riggs folk here when downplaying the "glass in feet thing is, its not about the just the glass, its the massive bloodloss that ensued. Look at how much claret he left trailing behind him after his escape....!! (Why didnt Han's guys follow that trail...?) That'd f*** up anybody's shit.
Try giving like 3 pints of blood and going for a 4 mile jog if you dont believe me.

That bee-otch in in DH..? If she didnt get that truck up her arse, then as tough has she was for a chick, she couldnt have survived another couple of shots from a puncher like McClane. Thats why Heavyweight Male boxers dont fight bantam weight female opponents, cause their frames/bodies couldn't take the punishment.
Even as an older guy he would have f***ed her up on the first decent landed hook to the jaw, regardless of her training.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Riggs took out a chopper with his Beretta in 2.


Ahhhhh but he failed to do that in LW1 though when the Shadow posse boys did the hit on Hunsaker and later when he could have sniped the chopper pilot in the desert if he was as good as y'all say.


Whereas McClane his killed every single helicopter he has faced.

(Jumbo Jets, Harrier jump jets, Trucks, Trains, Cars:- It makes no difference to McClane. )

And even when the Agents Johnson were trying to shoot him on the roof in DH1, he didnt he to even shoot back as they were blown to pieces along with the roof by Hans' explosives.
Helicopter death surrounds McClane with such efficiency, that he eat Airwolf for breakfast and crap Blue Thunder in the morning.

If fact it was lucky for those reporters in DH2 that he jumped out onto that plane wing....they may have been next.

Even if I had a distant family member who was a chopper pilot and I saw McClane coming?
I'd straight out shit my pants.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ahhhhh but he failed to do that in LW1 though when the Shadow posse boys did the hit on Hunsaker and later when he could have sniped the chopper pilot in the desert if he was as good as y'all say.


Whereas McClane his killed every single helicopter he has faced.

(Jumbo Jets, Harrier jump jets, Trucks, Trains, Cars:- It makes no difference to McClane. )

And even when the Agents Johnson were trying to shoot him on the roof in DH1, he didnt he to even shoot back as they were blown to pieces along with the roof by Hans' explosives.
Helicopter death surrounds McClane with such efficiency, that he eat Airwolf for breakfast and crap Blue Thunder in the morning.

If fact it was lucky for those reporters in DH2 that he jumped out onto that plane wing....they may have been next.

Even if I had a distant family member who was a chopper pilot and I saw McClane coming?
I'd straight out shit my pants. Yeah Riggs chopper in 1 was on the move, McLane's was at a standstill.

Not that it really matters, the whole helicopter thing came about to see who is the better shot, and it has been firmly established that Riggs is a superior shot.

and yet he didnt'. which is the point. she just right about came and spanked him up all the same.


try getting electrocuted and tortured for hours and THEN go for a jog?

Yup. Spanked him, burped him, smacked him on the bing bong.

Well if you wanna talk what happened being all that matters:
Then "he still killed her" wins.

Not as impressive as massive blood loss.
And it didnt seem to be hours he was electrocuted for to me.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah Riggs chopper in 1 was on the move, McLane's was at a standstill.

Not that it really matters, the whole helicopter thing came about to see who is the better shot, and it has been firmly established that Riggs is a superior shot.

Long distance shot maybe, but theres nothing inferior in McClane's shooting.

How many more moving targets do you want than all the people, cars planes and things McClane killed...?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Long distance shot maybe, but theres nothing inferior in McClane's shooting.

How many more moving targets do you want than all the people, cars planes and things McClane killed...? If they are say, twenty or thirty feet apart, yeah, Riggs long distance shooting will come into play. Even more so at close range.

Dude, look at the fight at the end of LW2. McLane wouldnt have been able to pull that off and survive.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Whereas McClane his killed every single helicopter he has faced.



Hmmm, since the helicopter in DH1 was blown up from the roof being rigged from Hans. During that time McClane was trying to hide from the helicopter and jumped off the building.

Mhm, good point.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If they are say, twenty or thirty feet apart, yeah, Riggs long distance shooting will come into play. Even more so at close range.

Dude, look at the fight at the end of LW2. McLane wouldnt have been able to pull that off and survive.

He'd fluke it by luck.

With McClane's legendary jamminess, Riggs might slip on a banana peel.

Originally posted by Bloinky
Hmmm, since the helicopter in DH1 was blown up from the roof being rigged from Hans. During that time McClane was trying to hide from the helicopter and jumped off the building.

Did you not see the flippant part of my post acknowledging that...?
Im not seriously putting that DH1 chopper down to McClane.


The others I do though.

McClane takes this, Riggs usually needs the help of his negro side-kick to win, he couldn't even take out Jet Li by himself, as where Mcclane would have just shot his ass and belched out a cheesy one-liner.

Its true.

Only James Bond, Austin Powers and 80s era Arnold Schwarzenegger could dream of matching McClane's capacity cheesy line delivery.
But McClane has a prestigious line in verbal abuse to accompany it.

Originally posted by Sado22
and yet he didnt'. which is the point. she just right about came and spanked him up all the same.


"Why walk when you can take the car...?"

If I could beat an opponent in battle by either fighting and then simply knocking them out like every other action movie,
or by cramming as much Land Rover as a I could into their anus as they fall down an Elevator shaft as a finishing move..?

The car option would be the more entertaining/tempting.

Especially after they have kicked me in the face but failed to kill me......

(And that chick failed to kill a lone McClane.)

She then payed the inevitable price.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
"Why walk when you can take the car...?"

If I could beat an opponent in battle by either fighting and then simply knocking them out like every other action movie,
or by cramming as much Land Rover as a I could into their anus as they fall down an Elevator shaft as a finishing move..?

The car option would be the more entertaining/tempting.

Especially after they have kicked me in the face but failed to kill me......

(And that chick failed to kill a lone McClane.)

She then payed the inevitable price.

That finishing move should be incorporated into the next Mortal Kombat game.

Why are these fools arguing that McClane getting kicked about a bit is somehow a negative? When as you explained, his opponent eventually had to pay the McPiper, as they all do.

Could Riggs use a Crown Victoria to take out an airborne helicopter filled with armed shooting men? Could Riggs have survived the F-35 attack? Could Riggs have defeated that French mercenary parkour guy without his side-kick? Answer to all is: NO

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Its true.

Only James Bond, Austin Powers and 80s era Arnold Schwarzenegger could dream of matching McClane's capacity cheesy line delivery.
But McClane has a prestigious line in verbal abuse to accompany it.

Bonds lines are cool!

(Post-Golden Eye movies suck btw (other Brosnan films had some moments, but on the whole, not up to par) . Just had to add that).

Im more a fan of old school Bond too. (Not that Im hardcore though)
I thought the reboot Casino Royal was pretty cool though.

Bond films need bigger more exciting plots, larger than life villains, and some humour.

I thought Casino Royale was somewhat acceptable as a reboot and Bond starting out as a "rookie" and he hasn't developed the charismatic Bond style yet. But in QoS he was just as rugged, and lacked charm that all the previous Bonds had.

Even though I do enjoy the old Bond films (yes, even the Dalton one... somewhat), I am pleased with the direction the reboot is taking.

I also found Craig charming, he has the same ability to screw women as a proper Bond should.

^ I'm thinking the complete opposite. In fact, overall I enjoy older films compared to new ones (lets same after 2000).

Regarding Bond films, I really liked the sharks, the lasers, Jaws, electric eels, Dr evil, and definitely the I-cud-kill-u-now-but-i'll-delay-and-kill-u-with-some-bizarre-method-while-i-reveal-my-diabolical-plans-and-you-can-somehow-escape thing.

Edit: Rofl, just noticed how off-topic we've gone.

Absolutely.
He definitely looks like a emotionallly desolate killing machine when he needs to also.. if he smiled occasionally and had a Scot accent, he'd be Connery.

I like the updated no-messing violence too.
Sheer efficiency and brutality.

McClane would approve.

EDIT: Indeed, Placidity. We are approximately 25 miles south by south west of the thread but its ok this road'll lead back onto it.
As Bond could kill Riggs too...

I'm waiting for one or more of the Riggs' fanboys to retaliate to the awesomeness that is the McClanes feats. Dude survived a jet fighter assault.

I dunno, McClane seems to have the bigger plots and more bangs, but he also does have incredible luck which kinda takes away from his skill.

He just doesn't seem as impressive, but he manages to come out with better feats anyway.

So going by feats, I would probably say McClane. But just watching the characters skills etc, I would lean towards Riggs. But hey, the feats are what counts...

Edit: MAD mag rules.

Whereas Riggs'd just be caught while wanking over a copy of Mad magazine on the can, by an awesome hail of Harrier bullets.

Originally posted by Placidity
I dunno, McClane seems to have the bigger plots and more bangs, but he also does have incredible luck which kinda takes away from his skill.

He just doesn't seem as impressive, but he manages to come out with better feats anyway.

So going by feats, I would probably say McClane. But just watching the characters skills etc, I would lean towards Riggs. But hey, the feats are what counts...

His luck is almost a skill.
By it being repeatedly proveable asset in combat.

Besides.
I know a skilled chartered accountant, but I wouldnt expect him to win against McClane though.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
His luck is almost a skill.
By it being repeatedly proveable asset in combat.


In a debate, I couldn't argue your point, because he did beat that fighter jet and other crazy stuff. But I'm just saying in my mind, its like "meh/yea right".


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

Besides.
I know a skilled chartered accountant, but I wouldnt expect him to win against McClane though.

what?

In LW1 the only reason riggs didn't get killed by that sniper was because he wasn't aiming he was just firing randomly, if he had actually been aiming then....yeah riggs woulda been dead but still it was good shooting by riggs

You just stated that skills are Riggs' edge.

Well I say that it isn't everything.

And making dumbassed mistakes like that bit in LW1 with all that three stooges "you wanna see crazy?" stuff negates that "advantage".

McClane'd have just shot him there and then the second that Riggs started slapping his own face and whooping and stuff.

Plenty of the world's high class shooters/marksman have had issues firing on live targets. So skills on their own aren't enough.

Skill can be like unapplied theory in that regard.

In this situation its like:
Riggs is very skilled in many ways, but can does he have the neccesary McClane-killing skills...? Well if he goofs off like he does frequently in movies, It'll be a moot point as Riggs'd be dead.

Originally posted by steverules_2
In LW1 the only reason riggs didn't get killed by that sniper was because he wasn't aiming he was just firing randomly, if he had actually been aiming then....yeah riggs woulda been dead but still it was good shooting by riggs

I agree.
(Even though it took him the whole clip to hit a guy once or twice.)

Another example of alleged sniping skills not quite being the big be all and end of everything in the field.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I agree.
(Even though it took him the whole clip to hit a guy once or twice.)

Another example of alleged sniping skills not quite being the big be all and end of everything in the field. Watch it again. The guy was aiming at Riggs, it's quite clear. And a whole clip, yes, but dude was like 50 feet or more away AND behind a metal barrier.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
You just stated that skills are Riggs' edge.

Well I say that it isn't everything.

And making dumbassed mistakes like that bit in LW1 with all that three stooges "you wanna see crazy?" stuff negates that "advantage".

McClane'd have just shot him there and then the second that Riggs started slapping his own face and whooping and stuff.

Plenty of the world's high class shooters/marksman have had issues firing on live targets. So skills on their own aren't enough.

Skill can be like unapplied theory in that regard.

In this situation its like:
Riggs is very skilled in many ways, but can does he have the neccesary McClane-killing skills...? Well if he goofs off like he does frequently in movies, It'll be a moot point as Riggs'd be dead. Does he have the skills? How many times must Riggs exploits in LW1 be mentioned? When he frees Murtaugh after being electrocuted? No WAY McLaine pulls that off. If anything, Riggs, if going at it in a war zone while McLaine does the same, will compose a body count that far surpasses McLaines.

The cops coming out of the situation as Riggs was going in were saying that the sniper was random and not aiming. When he is firing at Riggs, shot were erupting all round his feet. A prescision sniper would have nailed Riggs who was happy enough to present himself as a target.

McClane wouldnt have missed, if he were shooting at Riggs.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Does he have the skills? How many times must Riggs exploits in LW1 be mentioned? When he frees Murtaugh after being electrocuted? No WAY McLaine pulls that off. If anything, Riggs, if going at it in a war zone while McLaine does the same, will compose a body count that far surpasses McLaines.

Ahhh but we never see that.

All we see on screen is McClane killing way more people.

If McClane could pull off rescuing Holly in the way that he did in DH1, he could pull that off. In a different way, granted, but he could pull it off.

Riggs exploits in all the LW movies, all pale next to the god of death that is McClane's shenanigans.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The cops coming out of the situation as Riggs was going in were saying that the sniper was random and not aiming. When he is firing at Riggs, shot were erupting all round his feet. A prescision sniper would have nailed Riggs who was happy enough to present himself as a target.

McClane wouldnt have missed, if he were shooting at Riggs. WTF does that have to do with it? You should be asking yourself if McLaine could have taken the guy out with a beretta.

Usually works well enough.

Especially in the movie world/logic.

The point is TF that McClane wouldn't have missed Riggs like that loon guy.

I thought some the shots went through the metal barrier but I guess I was wrong

Movie world/Logic haermm

Yep. The same logic that allowed Riggs so survive the 1st half-hour of LW, let alone the rest of the movie.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yep. The same logic that allowed Riggs so survive the 1st half-hour of LW, let alone the rest of the movie.

And LW 2 when he was shot...you woulda thought that many shots would kill him

Yeah the bullets were Jewish and Mel Gibson hated them back out of Rigg's body.

Damn Jews with their....jewish bullets

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yep. The same logic that allowed Riggs so survive the 1st half-hour of LW, let alone the rest of the movie. It also allowed McLaine to do pretty much everything he did in all four DH movies. Point?

Originally posted by steverules_2
And LW 2 when he was shot...you woulda thought that many shots would kill him

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Absolutely. But it didn't. See how that works? And the fact that he fought and killed a man while having a frigging bayonet in his leg?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It also allowed McLaine to do pretty much everything he did in all four DH movies. Point?

Even for the glass in feet thing?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But it didn't. See how that works? And the fact that he fought and killed a man while having a frigging bayonet in his leg?

Of course I see how it works, I was just explaining it to you:
Movie. Logic.

Actually one of things about DH (1) at least was its comparitive plausibilty over Lethal Weapon and other cliched generic cop buddy movies. (Nicely lampooned in the Tiernan-directed "Last action hero".)

Thats why it worked as a breath of fresh air.
McClane was more interesting because he wasn't a predictable supercop. He was a human being having to pull these near super human feats out of the bag sometimes by luck.

I missed the part where Riggs is immortal.

from the looks of it McClane simply wins. Riggs could've killed McClane 1000 times in 10 minutes given that he's the better fighter and shooter but this is what happened:
-just as riggs was about to shoot mcclane point blank, Superboy Prime punched the barriers of reality and instead of Riggs pointing the gun at McClane, it became the other way around.
-just as Riggs was about to shoot mcclane point blank, he got a boner for absolutely no reason. John took advantage of the distraction and won.
-just as riggs was about to shoot mcclane point blank, his cell phone rang and John took advantage of the distraction and won.
-just as riggs was about to shoot mcclane point blank, riggs remembered a joke he was told in grade 6 and burst out laughing. John took advantage of the situation and won.
-just as riggs was about to shoot mcclane, a vortex opened and terminator came outta no where, shot riggs and said "John McClane, i've been sent from the future to save you".

..........list goes on. basically the McClane supporters are right: it doesn't matter if Riggs is the better shot or the better h2h fighter, John always gets lucky and he will again here. hence John shitstomps 10/10 in both scenarios. also, since he had glass in his feat it puts him on SuperSaiyan level

~Sado

Now your getting it.

Seriously (as serious as this thread can get at least) though, "Better fighter"? I judge movie warriors on their body count as well as how much they survived..

Riggs'd have to split his smaller-than-McClane's-pile with Murtaugh for starters.

But yes the luck that you describe is definitely McClanian in proportion.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I missed the part where Riggs is immortal.

Not immortal. Just cliched.

(And the action cop cliche is that he is nearly immortal...

The wife is usually dead.

The whole buddy cop thing of Young rookie versus Older "Im too old for this shit" attitude veteran of service.

The car chases.

The angry boss who always shouts at his cops giving them just 24 or 48 hrs to crack the case cause the D.A.'ll have the Sarge's ass.

The 70s-esque blues guitar soundtrack.

L.A as a backdrop.

And many more, Im sure.

well, you wanna talk about police cliches then look at McClane:
-troubled marriage/separated/divorced (john has all three)
-practically zero social life
-smokes
-drinks
-a "bad" cop
-reluctant hero
-bad attitude but a good person at heart
-has no friends
-has a bad relationship with his boss
-keeps having black people as sidekicks
-LA as back drop AND New York as back drop
-troubled relationship with children (if old enough)
-smartass one liners
-one man takes down entire armies
-bullets never hit him......at least not in vital areas


and i look at h2h skills (as does anyone else who hears the expression "better h2h fighter" )

~Sado

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not immortal. Just cliched.

(And the action cop cliche is that he is nearly immortal...

The wife is usually dead.

The whole buddy cop thing of Young rookie versus Older "Im too old for this shit" attitude veteran of service.

The car chases.

The angry boss who always shouts at his cops giving them just 24 or 48 hrs to crack the case cause the D.A.'ll have the Sarge's ass.

The 70s-esque blues guitar soundtrack.

L.A as a backdrop.

And many more, Im sure.


Hahhaha, true on all points.

Edit: There's a saying, 'you're only as powerful as your greatest enemies' (or something like that). McClane takes on criminal masterminds and wins.

Who does Riggs face-off against? Chumps.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not immortal. Just cliched.

(And the action cop cliche is that he is nearly immortal...

The wife is usually dead.

The whole buddy cop thing of Young rookie versus Older "Im too old for this shit" attitude veteran of service.

The car chases.

The angry boss who always shouts at his cops giving them just 24 or 48 hrs to crack the case cause the D.A.'ll have the Sarge's ass.

The 70s-esque blues guitar soundtrack.

L.A as a backdrop.

And many more, Im sure. Mhm...Mhmmmm.....And he is still far superior to McLaine in every way.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mhm...Mhmmmm.....And he is still far superior to McLaine in every way.

WRONG. See my post above, Hans would have easily outsmarted Riggs and his side-kick.

Originally posted by Robtard
WRONG. See my post above, Hans would have easily outsmarted Riggs and his side-kick. It's not like he outsmarts them, he pretty much lucks his way through everything. And we are talking about a one on one battle here, who is the bigger badass will decide the winner.

Bigger Badass=RIGGS.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not like he outsmarts them, he pretty much lucks his way through everything. And we are talking about a one on one battle here, who is the bigger badass will decide the winner.

Bigger Badass=RIGGS.

Ridiculous luck is an asset.

It's been shown that McClane's badassery is levels above anything Riggs has done, ignoring it won't change the facts. Taking out an airborne chopper with a Crown Victoria is as badass as it comes.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ridiculous luck is an asset.

It's been shown that McClane's badassery is levels above anything Riggs has done, ignoring it won't change the facts. Taking out an airborne chopper with a Crown Victoria is as badass as it comes. But that doesnt relate to this fight. Riggs is not in a chopper, and McLaine is not in a Crown Vic.

It is a gunfight/hand to hand combat fight. Riggs is better with a pistol than McLaine, there is no questioning that. And hand to hand, come on, do we really need to go over the times McLaine got pwned one on one by a trained martial artist? By a GIRL?

Originally posted by Robtard
Hahhaha, true on all points.

Edit: There's a saying, 'you're only as powerful as your greatest enemies' (or something like that). McClane takes on criminal masterminds and wins.

Who does Riggs face-off against? Chumps.

QFT... Even Riggs called Shadow company a bunch of pussies.

The South African were stupid enough to live in a stilted house and made the classic "We killed your wife" cliched-taunt mistake.

The bent copper in 3 wasnt shit. And he should have known that they'd at least possibly have the surveilance on those rooms, especially with "Infernal affairs" sniffing about.

Jet Li and his posse, while good at slave trading, would have been beaten in mental combat by Karl in Die Hard. Let alone the genius that was either Gruber brother.



As a side note, the crossovers continue...
In addition to the shared Michael Kamen scorage and the actress Cheryl Baker being in both LW1 and DH1(Amanda Hunsaker's freind in the video Roger is watching in LW and in DH she was the blonde running upto and jumping on her fella at the airport..."Ahhhhhh.....Califorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrniaaaaaaaaaaa", (and the same for the Girl Newscaster who was in DH... -She was the councillor in LW-)


In the scene in DH3 where the vaults are being raided, the sceurity guard appears to get a call from one of LW2's South Africans telling him to "Relax mate and you might live through this..."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
But that doesnt relate to this fight. Riggs is not in a chopper, and McLaine is not in a Crown Vic.

It is a gunfight/hand to hand combat fight. Riggs is better with a pistol than McLaine, there is no questioning that. And hand to hand, come on, do we really need to go over the times McLaine got pwned one on one by a trained martial artist? By a GIRL?

She being dead and him being alive...?

Some would argue that she got owned.

Riggs also was Pwned too and needed Roger to come running.

That girl was a faster opponent than Riggs.
And she was picking bumper and headlights out out her bottom afterwards.

In a gun battle it'd be a case of who got there first and McClane could get the drop on Riggs. Its possible.

And if Riggs couldnt do Jet li's character, he has no chance against the legendary durabilty of McClane.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
QFT... Even Riggs called Shadow company a bunch of pussies.

The South African were stupid enough to live in a stilted house and made the classic "We killed your wife" cliched-taunt mistake.

The bent copper in 3 wasnt shit. And he should have known that they'd at least possibly have the surveilance on those rooms, especially with "Infernal affairs" sniffing about.

Jet Li and his posse, while good at slave trading, would have been beaten in mental combat by Karl in Die Hard. Let alone the genius that was either Gruber brother.



As a side note, the crossovers continue...
In addition to the shared Michael Kamen scorage and the actress Cheryl Baker being in both LW1 and DH1(Amanda Hunsaker's freind in the video Roger is watching in LW and in DH she was the blonde running upto and jumping on her fella at the airport..."Ahhhhhh.....Califorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrniaaaaaaaaaaa", (and the same for the Girl Newscaster who was in DH... -She was the councillor in LW-)


In the scene in DH3 where the vaults are being raided, the sceurity guard appears to get a call from one of LW2's South Africans telling him to "Relax mate and you might live through this..."


Riggs calling Shadow company a bunch of pussies is like Ahnuld, in "Commando", saying "I eat green Berets for breakfast." He is just saying that he could own them at any time, it doesnt make them pussies, it means he is that much more badass than they are . Plus he was trying to get a rise outta the dude who had him at gunpoint.

And this whole "criminal mastermind" bullshit is just that, bullshit. Riggs is facing McLaine one on one, not with a group of terrorists. Being to luck ones way through a battle with a "criminal mastermind" has no bearing here.


McLaines one on one battles:

DH1: Karl McLaine got the piss beat outta him before he finally got lucky with the chain.

DH2: He barely beat the father from good times, and got PWNED by the Colonel, who wasnt half the fighter Riggs is.

DH3: I cant remember....

DH4: Maggie Q OWNS his ass, as does the human squirrel who was frozen then crushed after once again, mcLaine got LUCKY.

So yeah, McLaine may be good H2H for an average Joe, but Riggs is far from an average Joe, innit he?

"Yipee ki yay mother ****er!"....... *Riggs dies in explsion.*

OTyw6cq86kY

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
She being dead and him being alive...?

Some would argue that she got owned.

That girl was a faster opponent than Riggs.
And she was picking bumper and headlights out out her bottom afterwards.
Dude......McClaine needed a truck to kill her. He wont have a truck against Riggs. WHO won the H2H battle between McClain and Maggie Q? EXACTLY.

No doubt. Hell, even you or I would have a CHANCE at getting the drop on Riggs. Oh yeah, did I mention Riggs can shoot from the hip?


As I said, the point is not who WON the Jet Li/Riggs battle, point is when Riggs got pissed, he was WINNING the H2H battle. Jet Li just happened to know pressure points better than Riggs did, AND Riggs had taken alot of punishment. McClaine versus Jet Li's character=One dead cop.

The ability to beat criminal masterminds denotes more intelligence.

1) Oh...so what was McClane doing while delivering the lines about "Im gonna kill ya.....Im gonna cook ya....Im gonna f***i' eat ya."

And of course "You should have heard your brother squealing...when I broke his f***ing neck."

I think you'll find that despite the beating he had been recieving from a trained killer, he was whupping his ass back.


2) He wasnt the father of good times, there, was he? He was Green Beret.

3) Fair play.

4) McClane won though.

Sure. Average Joes, German hired killer gangs, Mercs and special forces Commandos and that bunch of tossers from DH4.

You guys are getting WAY off topic. This is a HAND TO HAND fight and a GUNFIGHT.

Riggs is not on a plane, He is not the head of a terrorist organization, and he is not in a chopper. McClaine does not have a car or truck, nor is he strapping a desk chair full of C4 and hurling it down an elevator shaft at McClaine.

McClaine is more Indiana Jones/McGuyver in his approach to fighting, making shit up as he goes along, being resourceful with what he has, relying more on luck than skill. Remember the elevator shootout in DH2?

Riggs is a killing machine, pure and simple. He is a juggernaut compared to McClaine.

Hand to hand - McClane wins...Why? Because he's ****ing John McClane.
Gun fight - McClane wins... Why? Because he's ****ing John McClane.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The ability to beat criminal masterminds denotes more intelligence. But does it make you a better ONE ON ONE H2H combatant? Nope. Lok at Mike Tyson, dude has the IQ of a testicle and he whupped ass for years.

Yeah, so he talked some shit, so? What does that have to do with me clarifying why Riggs called Shadow company a buncha pussies?

And when Riggs fought Busey in LW1, Busey was the trained killer, someone far deadlier than Karl was H2H.


Durh really? I thought he was the staff carrying pacifist from the Beastmaster.

Not sure what you are referring to.

Not the point and you know it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude......McClaine needed a truck to kill her. He wont have a truck against Riggs. WHO won the H2H battle between McClain and Maggie Q? EXACTLY.

No doubt. Hell, even you or I would have a CHANCE at getting the drop on Riggs. Oh yeah, did I mention Riggs can shoot from the hip.

So it doesnt matter that Riggs didnt kill and him its just about how well he fought... yet it matters magically who won McClane's DH4 fight..?

Odd double standardry.


If Riggs did what he did against those drugs dealers, during the "ive gotta prove how crazy I am by doing the three stooges bit" bit, and I would have shot him in the face while he did that...
McClane sure would.

McClane shot people through tables, and that Gaffer tape trick at the end of DH1 while getting his shots off in time AND accurately while his wife's life was at stake impresses me more than merely shooting from the hip.

Just wanna say that I am actually a huge fan of McClaine, more so than I am of Riggs, so I am not being a fanboy. I am just being real.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, well......Bob Lee Swagger pwns Batman.
Ok... Fine by me... So we're agreed.


Oh, and I've never seen leathal weapon... But I'm sure this Riggs fellow wouldn't match up.