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I have had to debate with BT about this exact topic a trillion times and counting, so here we go again.

Sephiroth stomps badly.

Then why does he always lose? :[

because sehiroth gay like that

Lmao, I've changed my mind about you, Phanteros, I think I like you after all. =]

But yeah, I'm gonna watch this debate. Should be good.

As you see BT avoiding it for good reason, it is a stomp .

or mayb BT is busy in real life, he'll be here later, I put money on it.

Crap, that isn't good, I was hoping for once he'd given up.

No matter how you slice it, Omnislash > Sephiroth.

No matter how you slice it, Sephiroth>Cloud, as I have said teleports behind Cloud and cuts his head off.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Then why does he always lose? :

Because somehow Sephiroth killing Cloud and taking over the world doesn't seem like a very good ending =/

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
No matter how you slice it, Sephiroth>Cloud, as I have said teleports behind Cloud and cuts his head off.

Well, maybe if sometime Dr. Long-Hair comes back from the dead again, he'll have a chance to do that.

Heres how it is, on the grounds of the AC battle Cloud could have easily won, by feats and actual showings Cloud>>>Sephiroth taking into account the character of the beings themselves.

However, if we are going to create a theoretical battle where they are simply mindless killing machines bent on nothing but the others death and will use their full powers at their disposal, then by feats Cloud would either insantly use Omnislash, killing Sephiroth, it happens too quickly for him to react to OR if we assume they start out at a distance, Sephiroth destroys Cloud with the Negative lifestream or using his willpower.

According to the developers nothing is above Sephiroth, the only way this can be true is if you take into account the Negative lifestream, however in the basis of the AC fight, Cloud could easily beat Sephiroth at that range, him not using Omnislash from the beginning seems to me just as much PIS as Sephiroth not using any of his other abilities. Thing is, Cloud could likely counter most of Sephiroths powers, I doubt Sephiroth has a counter for a move as fast as Omnislash.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Heres how it is, on the grounds of the AC battle Cloud could have easily won, by feats and actual showings Cloud>>>Sephiroth taking into account the character of the beings themselves.

However, if we are going to create a theoretical battle where they are simply mindless killing machines bent on nothing but the others death and will use their full powers at their disposal, then by feats Cloud would either insantly use Omnislash, killing Sephiroth, it happens too quickly for him to react to OR if we assume they start out at a distance, Sephiroth destroys Cloud with the Negative lifestream or using his willpower.

According to the developers nothing is above Sephiroth, the only way this can be true is if you take into account the Negative lifestream, however in the basis of the AC fight, Cloud could easily beat Sephiroth at that range, him not using Omnislash from the beginning seems to me just as much PIS as Sephiroth not using any of his other abilities. Thing is, Cloud could likely counter most of Sephiroths powers, I doubt Sephiroth has a counter for a move as fast as Omnislash. and it begins...

*Que epic music. LET THE WAR. BEGIN. OR SOMETHING.

epic war music

I approve.

Ultimate Will does not actually debate, he will prob invent something or make pointless one liners, theres no opinion or argument in what I said, its simply truth on what was happeing in AC and what is stated by the developers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Heres how it is, on the grounds of the AC battle Cloud could have easily won, by feats and actual showings Cloud>>>Sephiroth taking into account the character of the beings themselves.

However, if we are going to create a theoretical battle where they are simply mindless killing machines bent on nothing but the others death and will use their full powers at their disposal, then by feats Cloud would either insantly use Omnislash, killing Sephiroth, it happens too quickly for him to react to OR if we assume they start out at a distance, Sephiroth destroys Cloud with the Negative lifestream or using his willpower.

According to the developers nothing is above Sephiroth, the only way this can be true is if you take into account the Negative lifestream, however in the basis of the AC fight, Cloud could easily beat Sephiroth at that range, him not using Omnislash from the beginning seems to me just as much PIS as Sephiroth not using any of his other abilities. Thing is, Cloud could likely counter most of Sephiroths powers, I doubt Sephiroth has a counter for a move as fast as Omnislash.
ok i disagre that cloud was more impresive that seph in ac, just from part in the fight where cloud colapsed from exaustion and seph being fully energized still and the fact that sephiroth was able to fight clout effortlessly using one blade when cloud had 2 out, and he summons clouds out of nowhere. but also with omnislash i beleive there are requirements for him to use it im not sure exactly what they are or if they actually exist, but without omnislash cloud would lose eventually it would only take a long time because seph likes to mess arround with cloud, and that is the only reason that seph loses because of his arrogance

The creators already settled this debate:





Canonically Sephiroth > Anything else in the universe of FF VII. This means that powerhouses like Omega Weiss and Chaos Vincent aren't as powerful as him, meaning Cloud is pathetic next to him.

In a fight with no plot devices and Sephiroth going all out, he shit stomps Cloud in no time.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
The creators already settled this debate:





Canonically Sephiroth > Anything else in the universe of FF VII. This means that powerhouses like Omega Weiss and Chaos Vincent aren't as powerful as him, meaning Cloud is pathetic next to him.

In a fight with no plot devices and Sephiroth going all out, he shit stomps Cloud in no time.


No thats false, it simply means he is above them, that he can defeat them, the only real reason for that is because of the Negative lifestream, nothing in FF can fight against the lifestream.

That is perhaps true, but only if he uses the negative lifestream, according to feats Omnislash>Sephiroths regulour swordsmanship.

Originally posted by niduin
ok i disagre that cloud was more impresive that seph in ac, just from part in the fight where cloud colapsed from exaustion and seph being fully energized still and the fact that sephiroth was able to fight clout effortlessly using one blade when cloud had 2 out, and he summons clouds out of nowhere. but also with omnislash i beleive there are requirements for him to use it im not sure exactly what they are or if they actually exist, but without omnislash cloud would lose eventually it would only take a long time because seph likes to mess arround with cloud, and that is the only reason that seph loses because of his arrogance

Thing is Cloud has Omnislash, that power alone could if able to be used at the beginning of the fight would eliminate Sephiroth, he could do nothing.

BT, stop being so ignorant for once in your life. No official source anywhere says anything about it being because of the lifestream. To the contrary, the creators say not only nothing is above him, but also that nothing is stronger than him. That goes for Cloud too, silly, Sephiroth >>>>>>>>>>>> Cloud. Period.

Excuse me lol? the entire game is an officail source and the only feat hes shown in any of them that points to him being above anything is the negative lifestream, my source (the games)>>>your blind assumptions and love for Sephiroth. He has shown zero speed, durability, power etc etc etc feats on par with many of the other FF characters, the fools only winning grace that makes the developers quote valid is his Negative lifestream.

Cloud unfortunatley for Sephiroth can do a move (omnislash) too fast for him, furthermore a move that he can do in short range before Sephiroth can call his neg lifestream in the AC fight.

No, my source is straight from the people who made both. Yours is a blind hatred for Sephiroth because more people like him than Kain. Sephiroth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cloud in strength, speedand power. This is canon, you're wrong. Sorry.

Okie show me Sephiroths strength being above Cloud, show me him being faster than Omnislash? more powerful than Omnislash?

And ime talking about all the characters, its obvious to any non fanboy that Sephiroth is stuffed when Cloud does Omnislash, he cant even move, as shown by AC so dont start crying about it. Without Negative lifestream, Sephiroth is nothing in the face of Omega Weiss, Chaos, most of the weapons etc etc

No, silly, go read the Reunion Files. Sephiroth has never shown us what he can do. The reason antifanboys like yourself think Sephiroth isn't as powerful as he truly is is because he was not trying in Advent Children. The Book specifically says he never exerted himself, and that Cloud was giving it his all. Even then, AC clearly shows us that Cloud was struggling, meaning Sephiroth not trying is still > Cloud's best.

The creators of FF VII and AC are right, you aren't.

I dont have to go find your sources, sorry. hes not shown us what he can do so we assume he can wipe anyone and everything out lol...yeh right....fanboys like you will never learn....

No Omnislash is Clouds best, and Sephiroth could do nothing to it, according to the film, according to feats etc etc

Ofc I am, ime simply not brown nosing sephiroth and making 100 assumptions on how hes got all these uber powers hes just not shown us yet when the Negative lifestream works with what the creators have said, I dont have to sit here and grasp at straws in a hope that perhaps Sephiroth is indeed much faster and more powerful than everything in FF just by using is queer @ss look, slow powers and wimpy sword.

The creators said he was >>>>>>> Cloud. They said he wasn;t trying and that Cloud was giving it his best. We clearly see that Cloud struggles the whole fight and Sephiroth is on top.

This debate was over before it started because facts > your hate of Sephiroth. Sorry, but until you can realize that you're always going to be laughably ignorant of all things FF.

Yeh when Cloud is not using his full potential, then ofc he does Omnislash which destroys Sephiroth.

Thats just a childish banter, stop stamping your feat and actually debate otherwise your trolling, do it again and ill report you.

No, silly, the Reunion Files state very clearly that Cloud is giving it his all during the whole fight.

Learn to debate instead of just throwing a tantrum and yelling "I'm right the creators are wrong, wahhhh!!!!"

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Then why does he always lose? :

Because of CIS.

Without it Sephiroth ROFLCOPTER STOMPS.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
No, silly, the Reunion Files state very clearly that Cloud is giving it his all during the whole fight.

Learn to debate instead of just throwing a tantrum and yelling "I'm right the creators are wrong, wahhhh!!!!"

until he goes into Omnislash, then hes giving it all +1


Reported

Fasc, people posting things you don't like is not trolling or spamming. Keep up with reporting nonsense and you'll be the one getting the warning. Also, considering the way you post here, you have no room whatsoever to be telling others to learn how to debate.

Sorry, but I'm afraid making a post just to childishly tell someone you tattled is spam, as it is an unnecessary post not related to the debate.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Sorry, but I'm afraid making a post just to childishly tell someone you tattled is spam, as it is an unnecessary post not related to the debate.

Sorry, but I'm afraid that your (incorrect) opinion is not relevant.

I see you're still not doing a very good job modding, ignoring the real rules iin favor of your own so you can feel big on the interwebs.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I see you're still not doing a very good job modding, ignoring the real rules iin favor of your own so you can feel big on the interwebs.

I am ignoring no rules. You cannot just change them to say whatever you want. Even if he had only posted "reported" (which he did not, there was more to the post than that and it was not off-topic) it would not be something worth reporting as spam.

So if that's not spam then what is? Is it ok for him to talk about how he loves choclate ice cream in a Ganon vs KOS-MOS thread and mention nothing of the actual debate?

No, because that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread at hand. Posting something that's relevant to the actual thread and also pointing out that they made a report is fine. Even just stating that they reported someone, if what was being reported was disruptive to the thread, is fine. It is technically off-topic but it's not disruptive enough to be worth reporting.

Now, go back to the topic at hand.

Not disruptive enough says you....

I wish you were more objective.

ok BT, the fact is that sephiroth IS more powerful than cloud, cloud just happens to have a really powerful plot device. if seph REALLY REALLY wanted cloud dead instead of playing around then cloud would die almost instantly but seph is so f@#king arrogant that he thinks he cant die by anything from cloud, it is true that cloud is capable of killing sephiroth but he has to be able to hit him and apart from seph letting him hit him omnislash is the only way he can do it. so if it was stated that sephiroth was giving 100% then easy win for him but that wasnt ever stated so i give the win to cloud because sephiroth wont ever use his entire strength

Originally posted by niduin
ok BT, the fact is that sephiroth IS more powerful than cloud, cloud just happens to have a really powerful plot device. if seph REALLY REALLY wanted cloud dead instead of playing around then cloud would die almost instantly but seph is so f@#king arrogant that he thinks he cant die by anything from cloud, it is true that cloud is capable of killing sephiroth but he has to be able to hit him and apart from seph letting him hit him omnislash is the only way he can do it. so if it was stated that sephiroth was giving 100% then easy win for him but that wasnt ever stated so i give the win to cloud because sephiroth wont ever use his entire strength

fact of the matter is many things are plot devices, negative lifestream is part of the plot, and so is a plot device etc, just as much as Omnislash is. omnislash is a move that at a particulour range Sephiroth is stufffed, its simply fact Sephiroth cannot react to Omnislash and no amount of 100% usage of his powers will change that unless your implying he was purposely not using any piower while being slashed to bits and defeated by Omnislash which obviously is not true.

The only way Sephiroth beats Cloud is if Cloud only uses his normal swordsmanship, the only way he can beat Cloud if Cloud wants to do Omnislash is if he is at good range and sending in his Neg lifestream.

Originally posted by Burning thought
According to the developers nothing is above Sephiroth

The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

No they say he wins in a straight up fight, which is what I agreed on because nothing in FF can fight against the negative lifestream, but in melee? not a chance, Clouds omnislash>>>>Sephiroths techniques.

Cloud...he beat Seph already.

It is simply truth that the creators have said that Sephiroth is greater then Cloud and that Sephiroth wasn't trying in the AC fight or even in any fight against Cloud.

Why?

Zack fights with Sephiroth, but is eventually disarmed and too injured to attack. Soon after, Cloud reaches the Nibelheim reactor and engages in a battle against Sephiroth. Cloud is quickly impaled through the stomach and hung over the reactor core by Sephiroth. Cloud, in a feat of strength, grabs the sword and pushes himself forward, and subsequently throws Sephiroth against a wall. Sephiroth, with Jenova's head, jumps into the reactor core in an attempt to reach the Promised Land.

Here Sephiroth was humiliated by a ShinRa grunt which he denys.

Sephiroth doesn't want to think that Cloud was ever or could ever do that SO he believes in his mind that Cloud is always a weakass and could never ever hope to beat him. Which is true unless Cloud gets toyed with for a while and his limit gets pushed giving him the Spirit Energy to perform Omnislash. IF Sephiroth doesn't underestimate or toy with Cloud then Sephiroth wins in an instant.

Remember Burning Thought: Cloud can't instantly use Omnislash. he is required to be beat up a fair bit.

Also you seem to think that Sephiroth is a worse swordsman then Cloud which is wrong, remember the creators say he wasn't trying in that fight, he wasn't sweating or panting at all whereas Cloud was giving it his all.

So I guess we have it. Seph shits all over Cloud

Originally posted by Burning thought
fact of the matter is many things are plot devices, negative lifestream is part of the plot, and so is a plot device etc, just as much as Omnislash is. omnislash is a move that at a particulour range Sephiroth is stufffed, its simply fact Sephiroth cannot react to Omnislash and no amount of 100% usage of his powers will change that unless your implying he was purposely not using any piower while being slashed to bits and defeated by Omnislash which obviously is not true.

The only way Sephiroth beats Cloud is if Cloud only uses his normal swordsmanship, the only way he can beat Cloud if Cloud wants to do Omnislash is if he is at good range and sending in his Neg lifestream. wow its like you didnt even read what i was saying, i said that clouds omni slash wins everytime.

and also its not just the neg lifestream that makes seph stronger than cloud. The absolute only reason sephiroth loses to cloud is that he refuses to beleive that cloud can hurt him and so he messes with cloud when he could easily cut thru his sword and head end of story

Originally posted by K1ll3r
It is simply truth that the creators have said that Sephiroth is greater then Cloud and that Sephiroth wasn't trying in the AC fight or even in any fight against Cloud.

Why?

Zack fights with Sephiroth, but is eventually disarmed and too injured to attack. Soon after, Cloud reaches the Nibelheim reactor and engages in a battle against Sephiroth. Cloud is quickly impaled through the stomach and hung over the reactor core by Sephiroth. Cloud, in a feat of strength, grabs the sword and pushes himself forward, and subsequently throws Sephiroth against a wall. Sephiroth, with Jenova's head, jumps into the reactor core in an attempt to reach the Promised Land.

Here Sephiroth was humiliated by a ShinRa grunt which he denys.

Sephiroth doesn't want to think that Cloud was ever or could ever do that SO he believes in his mind that Cloud is always a weakass and could never ever hope to beat him. Which is true unless Cloud gets toyed with for a while and his limit gets pushed giving him the Spirit Energy to perform Omnislash. IF Sephiroth doesn't underestimate or toy with Cloud then Sephiroth wins in an instant.

Remember Burning Thought: Cloud can't instantly use Omnislash. he is required to be beat up a fair bit.

Also you seem to think that Sephiroth is a worse swordsman then Cloud which is wrong, remember the creators say he wasn't trying in that fight, he wasn't sweating or panting at all whereas Cloud was giving it his all.

limit breaks are a gameplay notion, can you find canon evidence that out of game Cloud requires to build up any limit to use Ominslash?

As I said, please show me canon evidence that suggests Cloud cannot do Omnislash right away.

No, when did I state this? infact you obviously did not read my posts because ive said that Cloud would die without Omnislash in a normal sword fight:

Originally posted by Burning thought


The only way Sephiroth beats Cloud is if Cloud only uses his normal swordsmanship

Originally posted by niduin
wow its like you didnt even read what i was saying, i said that clouds omni slash wins everytime.

and also its not just the neg lifestream that makes seph stronger than cloud. The absolute only reason sephiroth loses to cloud is that he refuses to beleive that cloud can hurt him and so he messes with cloud when he could easily cut thru his sword and head end of story

You just contradicted yourself so why should I read any of your posts in the first place?

you just said Clouds omnislash wins every time and then you go on to say the absolute only reason sephiroth loses to Cloud is because he messes with him......

Sephiroth has nothing to stop Omnislash, its too fast and once its started Sephiroth is busted.

Furthermore what reason do you have that I apprently ignored your post? I addressed the fact you called Ominslash a plot device power when most of Sephirtohs could be called the same.

For starters there's the fact that in canon we only know of two instances where he used it, both of them against the person he hates most. If he could pull it off willy nilly then he would use it more often.

Then there's the fact that he doesn't use it in AC until after he is worn out, wounded, and Sephiroth begins to taunt him, at which point we see a flood of memories flash through Cloud's mind to inspire him, building up enough rage and spirit energy to pull it off.

Just stop, BT, you've lost.

Sephiroth uses his Telekinesis to stop Cloud from moving. Then he smirks and chops his head off.

End of battle.

@ BT, you keep saying Cloud has omnislash, so he wins. By the time Cloud gets ready to use it, Sephiroth would have cut Cloud to a million pieces, because he can shoot beams out from his sword, speed blitz him, or teleport behind Cloud and kill him. Sephiroth can also use telekinesis so he can't move, then he cuts his head off.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
@ BT, you keep saying Cloud has omnislash, so he wins. By the time Cloud gets ready to use it, Sephiroth would have cut Cloud to a million pieces, because he can shoot beams out from his sword, speed blitz him, or teleport behind Cloud and kill him. Sephiroth can also use telekinesis so he can't move, then he cuts his head off.

Gets ready to use it? wtf......show me him, "getting ready" to use it....well no, sorry but Cloud will destroy Sephiroth while hes "getting ready" to use his sword beams in that case....

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Sephiroth uses his Telekinesis to stop Cloud from moving. Then he smirks and chops his head off.

End of battle.

unfortunaltey not before Clouds instant Omnislash carves him into bits.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
For starters there's the fact that in canon we only know of two instances where he used it, both of them against the person he hates most. If he could pull it off willy nilly then he would use it more often.

Then there's the fact that he doesn't use it in AC until after he is worn out, wounded, and Sephiroth begins to taunt him, at which point we see a flood of memories flash through Cloud's mind to inspire him, building up enough rage and spirit energy to pull it off.

Just stop, BT, you've lost.

Your assuming/guessing, theres no offical statement that claims Cloud can only do it when he is angry. Its just a move like any other. And no he wouldnt use it more often because its "super" "special" move that stops Sephiroth, it would not be half as special if he used it every time he saw an enemy.

lol, you would know all about losing, unfortunaltey for you, you have zero credability.

Originally posted by Burning thought



unfortunaltey not before Clouds instant Omnislash carves him into bits.




Right. Because he doesn't even think about doing the move, right? He just does it because its instict for him.

Funny.

No,silly. All the evidence is on my side here. He couldn't use the attack before wounded and angry, then seeing all sorts of things he wanted to protect flash in his mind. Omnislash isn't just a move, ok champ?

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
No,silly. All the evidence is on my side here. He couldn't use the attack before wounded and angry, then seeing all sorts of things he wanted to protect flash in his mind. Omnislash isn't just a move, ok champ?

Sorry but, theres no actual official statement....

And its amusing that you started saying "champ" ever since I called you sport and chief months ago lol.....and since then youve been pwned by almost every debator you go up against and have even been stated to be a weak debator by a mod....

nobody will ever take you seriously, i think if ever you did bother to take your time to make a real argument your behaviour previously would still be enough to get you nothing but a laugh

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Right. Because he doesn't even think about doing the move, right? He just does it because its instict for him.

Funny.

ofc he has to think....so? so does Sephiroth...

And who do you think will execute first?

Sephiroth has already grabbed hold of the entire FF7 party in a flash of light.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
And who do you think will execute first?

Sephiroth has already grabbed hold of the entire FF7 party in a flash of light.

And apprently Omnislash happens in a blink of an eye, so the speed of the beginning of it would be minute.

So its faster?

Ofc its faster.....

WTF does Ofc mean?

Except for the fact that he can't use it at the start of a battle, champ. Give me an official statement that its a normal attack, because until you have that he's only done it twice after being under extreme duress...

And you took that from me, silly. I starting calling you sport and champ, then you thought you'd be cool by taking that from me, remember? You've never been very good at debating Sephiroth because you're extremely biased against him, everyone on this board can see that, exlaining why no one agrees with you here.

ofcourse, if the whole move happens in a blink of an eye, and Sephiroth can do nothing in the duration, its faster than he is and its faster than his moves as well as his thought process, and its not as if Cloud has to think much about it.... he just seems to let loose all his little blades and away he goes.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Except for the fact that he can't use it at the start of a battle, champ. Give me an official statement that its a normal attack, because until you have that he's only done it twice after being under extreme duress...

And you took that from me, silly. I starting calling you sport and champ, then you thought you'd be cool by taking that from me, remember? You've never been very good at debating Sephiroth because you're extremely biased against him, everyone on this board can see that, exlaining why no one agrees with you here.

Burdon of proof is on you...I dont have to prove your side of the argument


*explaining and you have some major insecurities Chief sort out some argument and learn to debate, then come back to these boards and while your at it, read the rules, Ime not sure I could count the amount of times a Mod has had to pick you up on your nonsense and whats worse you try and degrade them for it....

No, silly. The burden of poof is on you. I have given plenty of evidence proving he can only use it under extreme duress, and you have done nothing but say prove it. Since all the given evidence is on my side, its your job to prove that false.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
WTF does Ofc mean?

Of ****!ng course.

Originally posted by Burning thought
ofcourse, if the whole move happens in a blink of an eye, and Sephiroth can do nothing in the duration, its faster than he is and its faster than his moves as well as his thought process, and its not as if Cloud has to think much about it.... he just seems to let loose all his little blades and away he goes.


LoL. Did it ever occur to you that Sephiroth can do nothing in the duration because he has to lose to Cloud?

He thought about his family and friends before doing the limit confused

And I disagree about Cloud being able to do Omnislash from the very beginning. He has never done it. We even had to wait for Cloud to fill his limit bar to perform it. It wasn't just "instantly" there.

Anyways.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
LoL. Did it ever occur to you that Sephiroth can do nothing in the duration because he has to lose to Cloud?


And I disagree about Cloud being able to do Omnislash from the very beginning. He has never done it. We even had to wait for Cloud to fill his limit bar to perform it. It wasn't just "instantly" there.

Anyways.

Thats fallacious, what has he officially done faster than a blink? ive not seen ANY feat from him showing him faster than a blink of an eye.

Well theres nothing to actually officially state him not being able to, I could claim PIS/CIS for Omnislash just the same as you Sephiroth lovers claim he was under PIS. Your assuming that he has to somehow get angry or w/e to use it.....theres nothing officially stating it that ive seen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats fallacious, what has he officially done faster than a blink? ive not seen ANY feat from him showing him faster than a blink of an eye.

Well theres nothing to actually officially state him not being able to, I could claim PIS/CIS for Omnislash just the same as you Sephiroth lovers claim he was under PIS. Your assuming that he has to somehow get angry or w/e to use it.....theres nothing officially stating it that ive seen.


Except Cloud had an entire fight to perform his "miraculous bullshit" move on Sephiroth and didn't until he was already beaten, humiliated and was reminded of those he loves.

Sephiroth on the other hand stabbed Cloud in the shoulder when he could have easily chopped his head off. That is Character Induced Stupidity at its finest.

Hold it fella. I am not a Sephiroth lover. Are you so biased against Sephiroth that its either love or hate? That is childish.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Except Cloud had an entire fight to perform his "miraculous bullshit" move on Sephiroth and didn't until he was already beaten, humiliated and was reminded of those he loves.

Sephiroth on the other hand stabbed Cloud in the shoulder when he could have easily chopped his head off. That is Character Induced Stupidity at its finest.

Hold it fella. I am not a Sephiroth lover. Are you so biased against Sephiroth that its either love or hate? That is childish.

No logic tells us that simply being angry suddenly gives you a new special technique to defeat an opponent.

But that could have been avoided if Cloud hadnt had just done the Omnislash as soon as he saw Sephiroth.

You constantly seem to give Sephiroth a win in most threads, not as bad to a degree and Fascist or Terry and SHM but you give Sephiroth a win. Usually without debate.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No logic tells us that simply being angry suddenly gives you a new special technique to defeat an opponent.

But that could have been avoided if Cloud hadnt had just done the Omnislash as soon as he saw Sephiroth.

You constantly seem to give Sephiroth a win in most threads, not as bad to a degree and Fascist or Terry and SHM but you give Sephiroth a win. Usually without debate.

No logic tells us that we do not aim to chop your eternal nemesis's head off when we have the golden oportunity. Especially when he has been under these circunstances already and kicked our asses.

Logic in FF...w00t

I gave up on hardcore debating long ago. Hardly give any in-depth explanations as to why x character wins. Besides saying Sephiroth wins x threads doesn't make me a Sephiroth lover. Is it really that simple to you?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
No logic tells us that we do not aim to chop your eternal nemesis's head off when we have the golden oportunity. Especially when he has been under these circunstances already and kicked our asses.

Logic in FF...w00t

I gave up on hardcore debating long ago. Hardly give any in-depth explanations as to why x character wins. Besides saying Sephiroth wins x threads doesn't make me a Sephiroth lover. Is it really that simple to you?

But thats guessed, your guessing that thats how it works, ime using typical logic that makes sense in the real world like anyone would do in a debate when the universe in question has not specifically outlined every variable (most fictions) and FF is one of them. The fact remains, getting angry has never been stated in FF to give you new powers all of a sudden.

Your actions of stating sephiroth winner without debate implies you are a Sephiroth fanboy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But thats guessed, your guessing that thats how it works, ime using typical logic that makes sense in the real world like anyone would do in a debate when the universe in question has not specifically outlined every variable (most fictions) and FF is one of them. The fact remains, getting angry has never been stated in FF to give you new powers all of a sudden.

Your actions of stating sephiroth winner without debate implies you are a Sephiroth fanboy.

Think whatever you want, kiddo. I know I am no fan of that mama's boy.

I could go out of my way and start labeling you a deluded Kain fanboy, but have I ever done it?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Think whatever you want, kiddo. I know I am no fan of that mama's boy.

I could go out of my way and start labeling you a deluded Kain fanboy, but have I ever done it?

I debate anything with Kain in it, thats what makes the diffrence between a fanboy, and someone simply with an opinion, so you would be wrong.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Gets ready to use it? wtf......show me him, "getting ready" to use it....well no, sorry but Cloud will destroy Sephiroth while hes "getting ready" to use his sword beams in that case....

You have no idea what that is, do you? Sephiroth swings his sword, and a long beam cuts Cloud in half. As we saw, Cloud had to put his sword away, and pull it out, that is getting ready, as Sephiroth will be too fast for that. You should really stop BT while you can.

Had to put his sword away and then get it out? ....wtf......

Originally posted by Burning thought
I debate anything with Kain in it, thats what makes the diffrence between a fanboy, and someone simply with an opinion, so you would be wrong.

WTF does that mean?

So you simply have an opinion? Really? Do you truly believe that shit? So I guess I'm a Ryu fanboy because I posted saying Ryu wins in some threads? Oh shit I'm everyone's fanboy. What a FKN tool I am.

WTF?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Had to put his sword away and then get it out? ....wtf......

Have you even seen the fight in AC, or are you pretending like you are right now. Do you need 5 videos?

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
Have you even seen the fight in AC, or are you pretending like you are right now. Do you need 5 videos?

Sure show me them videos.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
WTF does that mean?

So you simply have an opinion? Really? Do you truly believe that shit? So I guess I'm a Ryu fanboy because I posted saying Ryu wins in some threads? Oh shit I'm everyone's fanboy. What a FKN tool I am.

WTF?

A fanboy is usually someone who would consistently state his character the winner without debate.

perhaps I did not see you posting "ryu" wins since I dont enter those threads, I didnt think it meant enough for you to make a hissy fit out of it, maybe ill admit your not a Sephiroth fanboy and that perhaps your just post count boosting....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sure show me them videos.

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VIY7KmwnIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCjGvIJzk6k

Originally posted by Burning thought
A fanboy is usually someone who would consistently state his character the winner without debate.

perhaps I did not see you posting "ryu" wins since I dont enter those threads, I didnt think it meant enough for you to make a hissy fit out of it, maybe ill admit your not a Sephiroth fanboy and that perhaps your just post count boosting....

-Nod-

I'm cool now. Being called a Seph fanboy made my blood burn lol. I honestly can't stand the guy and all the love he gets because he has a big sword and a fancy haircut.

If only SE decided to work on another game in the series besides FF7. Shit I bet Dissidia's cover will have the face of Cloud with a shirtless Sephiroth reflected in his eyes.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VIY7KmwnIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCjGvIJzk6k

I want evidence, not a couple of vague videos. Please state the exact time during the movie where Cloud apprently does some massively lengthly "ready" stance for Omnislash.

I have said it multiple times, I can't watch videos on my computer, you go look yourself, near the end.

BTW, proof you haven't seen the video as you are trying to avoid them. Anyone else see that?

He is probably talking about the part where Cloud swings the 1st Tsurugi in circles a couple of times before making the swords split.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
I have said it multiple times, I can't watch videos on my computer, you go look yourself, near the end.

BTW, proof you haven't seen the video as you are trying to avoid them. Anyone else see that?

"near" the end is a bit vague. Can someone else find it for him?

lol? apprently me not wanting to watch 14 minutes of a movie I hate just to hopefully gather YOUR evidence is me not seeing the video....

Originally posted by K1ll3r
It is simply truth that the creators have said that Sephiroth is greater then Cloud and that Sephiroth wasn't trying in the AC fight or even in any fight against Cloud.

When was Seph greater than Cloud? Seph didn't look like he was holdin' back at the end of 7. Or in Crisis Core.

Originally posted by Burning thought
"near" the end is a bit vague. Can someone else find it for him?

lol? apprently me not wanting to watch 14 minutes of a movie I hate just to hopefully gather YOUR evidence is me not seeing the video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCjGvIJzk6k 6:56.

Whos to say that was "getting" ready?

Well since he had to put it away and then pull it out, that is preparing for omnislash, which gives Seph enough time to tear him to shreds.

Burning Thought you are hopeless, you don't want to read or watch sources because you 'hate' it. What chance do we have in an argument against you? Are you a permanent troll or something?

Sephiroth is better then Cloud it wasn't officialy stated that it is because of the Neg Lifestream yet you say it is but you are simply guessing, can you find canon to say that he CAN use it(Omnislash) straight away? Why did he only use it when pushed? Why have the creators stated he can only use it under due stress?

I have evidence that shows that it can be only used when he is beat up, In the Ultimania Omega(go look at the link I have given you over 20 times) that his Omnislash can only be used when he has been beat up a fair bit(Paraphrased!). If you don't want to read or watch our sources that ISN'T our problem and you shouldn't be debating if you aren't going to go and have a look at sources we post.

There is no official statement about any of Illidans abilities like teleport yet you say he has them because of an obscure statement on a wikipedi-esque page! double standard much? You are like a Fanboy except like, hateboy you make up your own facts and reject all others while guessing the rest without any sources.

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Sephiroth has always been better then Cloud why does it take 3(6) characters to defeat Sephiroth? Why does Sephiroth look like he is barely trying in AC? Zack was better then Cloud and Sephiroth beat Zack easily (in CC).

I have answered these questions with evidence you then ask where is the evidence.

If no-one can bring to the table anything else that Cloud could use to win *besides* Omnislash (HE CAN ONLY USE THIS IF SEPHIROTH BEATS HIM UP A FAIR BIT) then Sephiroth has won. Clouds swordsmanship is NOT better then Sephiroth as you can see in the AC fight Sephiroth IS NOT TRYING whereas Cloud IS GIVING IT HIS ALL.

and no, you post sources.

Originally posted by I am who I am
When was Seph greater than Cloud? Seph didn't look like he was holdin' back at the end of 7. Or in Crisis Core.

Crisis Core, are you kidding? How could he hold back when he was critically injured before their fight started?

Cloud fricking stabbed him from behind(Oh yes...sexy) Hell I dunno how Sephiroth managed to keep walking. Then Cloud attacked Sephiroth face on and Seph shrugged him off with one arm and sent him flying. Later he stabbed the masamune through his torso, lifted him and Cloud pulled the "Imma **** you up" stunt and threw him down the reactor.

Their bout was short and brutal.

Cloud's greatest moment for sure.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Crisis Core, are you kidding? How could he hold back when he was critically injured before their fight started?

Cloud fricking stabbed him from behind(Oh yes...sexy) Hell I dunno how Sephiroth managed to keep walking. Then Cloud attacked Sephiroth face on and Seph shrugged him off with one arm and sent him flying. Later he stabbed the masamune through his torso, lifted him and Cloud pulled the "Imma **** you up" stunt and threw him down the reactor.

Their bout was short and brutal.

Cloud's greatest moment for sure. That was pretty cool.

You guy make Seph sound SOOOOOOOOOOOOO powerful that the fact Cloud got a cheap shot in shouldn't even have mattered. If Seph is soooooooooooo much stronger than Cloud, he still shoulda won.

Originally posted by I am who I am
That was pretty cool.

You guy make Seph sound SOOOOOOOOOOOOO powerful that the fact Cloud got a cheap shot in shouldn't even have mattered. If Seph is soooooooooooo much stronger than Cloud, he still shoulda won.

Huh? The Buster Sword nearly cleaved him in half. Sephiroth wasn't as powerful back then. Sephiroth's dilema is his character induced stupidity. He just can't grasp the fact that a simple infantryman whooped his ass.

TBH I hated Last Order because of the fact they changed the events to have Sephiroth willingly throw himself in the lifestream(which made no FKN sense) instead of having Cloud do it. I am glad Crisis Core set the record straight.

All I'm sayin' is, if the guy was better, he wouldn't have lost almost er fight against Cloud.

Despite my earlier shenanigans even I see that Seph should win.

The Silver Surfer got arm barred by the Black Panther once, but that doesn't mean that in a legit fight Surfer wouldn't rape stomp Panther in milliseconds...

Originally posted by I am who I am
All I'm sayin' is, if the guy was better, he wouldn't have lost almost er fight against Cloud. this is the point in the game where cloud starts to react to the maco/jenova they sprinkled him with his emotional state triggered it he was getting stronger and caught seph off guard when he pulled himself up the sword that had him impaled, that combined with seph being mortally wounded is why cloud was able to defete him there, thats basicly the same reason he beet him the other 2 times to his emotional state triggered his limit and murdured.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Burning Thought you are hopeless, you don't want to read or watch sources because you 'hate' it. What chance do we have in an argument against you? Are you a permanent troll or something?

Sephiroth is better then Cloud it wasn't officialy stated that it is because of the Neg Lifestream yet you say it is but you are simply guessing, can you find canon to say that he CAN use it(Omnislash) straight away? Why did he only use it when pushed? Why have the creators stated he can only use it under due stress?

I have evidence that shows that it can be only used when he is beat up, In the Ultimania Omega(go look at the link I have given you over 20 times) that his Omnislash can only be used when he has been beat up a fair bit(Paraphrased!). If you don't want to read or watch our sources that ISN'T our problem and you shouldn't be debating if you aren't going to go and have a look at sources we post.

There is no official statement about any of Illidans abilities like teleport yet you say he has them because of an obscure statement on a wikipedi-esque page! double standard much? You are like a Fanboy except like, hateboy you make up your own facts and reject all others while guessing the rest without any sources.

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Sephiroth has always been better then Cloud why does it take 3(6) characters to defeat Sephiroth? Why does Sephiroth look like he is barely trying in AC? Zack was better then Cloud and Sephiroth beat Zack easily (in CC).

I have answered these questions with evidence you then ask where is the evidence.

If no-one can bring to the table anything else that Cloud could use to win *besides* Omnislash (HE CAN ONLY USE THIS IF SEPHIROTH BEATS HIM UP A FAIR BIT) then Sephiroth has won. Clouds swordsmanship is NOT better then Sephiroth as you can see in the AC fight Sephiroth IS NOT TRYING whereas Cloud IS GIVING IT HIS ALL.

and no, you post sources.

Now these are just childish banterings because its obvious your running out of arguments, ive attacked every one of your arguments, even though most of which are inconclusive and the rest is simply an FAQ that could have been created by anyone filled with assumptions.

Thats what ime looking for, you just said the creators officially stated he can only use Omnislash under stress, if you can show me that evidence, ill shut up. And I say negative lifestream because that is the only way he can beyond the likes of Chaos, weapons etc. The burdon of proof is on you to prove Omnislash is only usable when Cloud is angry.

I dont have to find every part of your source, ime sorry but its the same as me telling you to go and play all the LOK games if you toss a 20 page essay and tell me your proofs "somewhere" in there, you have to show me evidence.

Him being a master sorceror and having the powers of the greatest Warlock are all official....unless the games and the official WoW site as well as the various books are now apprently all uncanon? ime talking about 100% game info. And the page I gave you has its own sources.

i have yet to see anything that you have said that proves anything that we have said wrong, and being part of a debate you should know both sides of the subject, i mean if i said that cloud could beet kain in a fight and since i have not played the game would you even bother to argue with me?

I dont have to prove you wrong, thats a negative, in debating you have to prove yourself right. And I would argue with you if you had some reasoning.

well from what i can see you havent backed anything you have said up either so you cant talk, you just ignor what people say i mean we have shown that the neg lifestream is not the only reason seph is the strongest, i mean statements from the creators how is that not proof enough for you?

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I see you're still not doing a very good job modding, ignoring the real rules iin favor of your own so you can feel big on the interwebs. You know fasc, this is a line of thought that i had in mind for an extremely long time.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
He is probably talking about the part where Cloud swings the 1st Tsurugi in circles a couple of times before making the swords split.

Not just that. Remember him putting it on his back, then pulling it out and all the pieces come out.

Originally posted by niduin
well from what i can see you havent backed anything you have said up either so you cant talk, you just ignor what people say i mean we have shown that the neg lifestream is not the only reason seph is the strongest, i mean statements from the creators how is that not proof enough for you?

Sephiroth has the negative lifestream, the creators wouldnt be saying hes the strongest if he did not have the negative lifestream and ive backed up everything I say, because everything I say is shown in your own evidence, Sephiroth has not shown speed faster than Clouds Omnislash, this is fact, the burdon of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

Youve not shown the negative lifestream is not the only reason, hes not done anything that makes him as fast as Chaos or Omega Weiss, or as powerful as Chaos, or as durable as the weapons etc etc, the only reason he could possibly defeat any of them is with the lifestream and what the developers say is completly legit while hes got it.

BT, Sephiroth is very obviously not your forte and you've admitted to hating the character multiple times, we all know the deal here. You shouldn't try to argue something you're completely ignorant on. There's a good reason no one is agreeing with you, please stop making yourself look silly.

BT, are you denying the creators words? Sounds like you are, Seph wins end of story, stop making up silly comments.

Originally posted by Gumachi
BT, are you denying the creators words?

No, ime agreeing with the creators completly learn to read posts

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
BT, Sephiroth is very obviously not your forte and you've admitted to hating the character multiple times, we all know the deal here. You shouldn't try to argue something you're completely ignorant on. There's a good reason no one is agreeing with you, please stop making yourself look silly.

Reported for trolling

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

I said Sephiroth wins in a typical one on one combat, its in that sort of scenario where Sephiorth can use his extended reach of blade beams and the Negative lifestream. Unfortunaltey the developers have shown Sephiroth can do nothing to the likes of Omnislash in melee.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
The developers even say Sephiroth wins, so stop argueing, I think they know more than you do.

Both reported

Good for you. Its nice to report facts because you don't like them.

What will they do about that, just saying that developers know who will win, honestly?

...you know what? I'm just closing this. The thread was started out of spite and is causing nothing but trouble and a flood of reports I have to weed through.

Closed.