Originally posted by inimalist
probably
so, what I am studying now is reaching and how the eyes and the hand coordinate. If you think about it in terms of what is known as the dual hypothesis of vision, reaching is strictly a "dorsal" task:
http://brainmind.com/images/VisualStream254.gif
The dorsal stream is the "vision-for-action" stream, whereas the ventral stream is the "vision-for-perception" stream (for instance, Visual Agnosia is caused from ventral damage and Optic Ataxia is caused by dorsal damage ). Because some people in our lab do research on clinical populations (not on treatments, on a condition called PCA ) we try to put a bit of a clinical spin on our work (helps with funding too).
Anyways, in a clinical sense, it is possible that activating, bottom-up, either the dorsal or ventral stream could help damage in the other, given how connected they are. However, this is unlikely, as similar tactics have not shown results historically.
It might be that nobody has tested it specifically, or in a specific way, but at this point, it doesn't look like unlimited plasticity exists.
However, the hippocampus and memory itself are entirely different, the hippocampus undergoing intense plasticity throughout life, so maybe it will work differently, however, I do doubt the ability of this type of "bottom-up therapy", though I admit, it is almost entirely unstudied.
You're selling out to a clinical spin to get funding...you bastard. You're just like everyone else. (JK)
About the plasticity of the memories, this is what I was referring to. It is that plasticity that makes me think moving the "traumatic" memories to another area that are not generally associated with the bottom-up responses to stimuli (though...isn't that a failed conclusion anyway? the subconscious does its background stuff all the time making the notion that you can just shove the memory somewhere safe, just stupid) a safe solution if you assume our mind will not re-wire to re-integrate the memories into our responses (i.e. triggers to the memories associated with the traumatic event). This is supported with the dreams about war and waking up in a total rage and scared to the point of shitting or pissing yourself or beating up your spouse (real reactions for some with PTSD)...the subconscious is still "digging" around our memories and creating dreams from them. That tells me my idea is shit and there's no "safe" place unless you remove the memory altogether. The memory may be safe until the connections are made and then you'd have to move it again. I dunno, doesn't seem pragmatic. I am not intelligent enough or knowledgeable enough to come up with pragmatic solutions to problems that function from memories. But that is the type of work our future neuroscientists will need to be looking into as it would obviously be in high demand if we get there (considering that some people think we are just a couple of decades away from becoming virtually immortal (either digitally or biologically)).
Originally posted by inimalist
It would probably require a physical manipulation of some kind, the big risk however would be that neurological areas are highly tied to one another. I can only assume there isn't a ptsd "spot" that would be independent of other memories.
I agree. When they expose these "dudes" to images that are supposed to invoke their PTS, it activates in certain areas of the brain. It is in the same areas, but there's no way to localize it: there's probably a mass of "neuronic groups" activated because that memory is tied to so much stuff that it would be absurd to try and move it.
Originally posted by inimalist
we could argue the benefits of getting rid of it while causing other cognitive developments, however, the idea that things are processed in specific and localized areas in the brain is quickly falling out of favor for distributed and overlapping models. I can't speak to ptsd specifically, but the idea that removing or disrupting the connections to that area wouldn't cause massive impacts to the memory and emotion system is almost inconceivable.
however, we are talking future tech, so maybe in this world we can rebuild these systems or whatever... idk... this future-science bullshit makes me mad, bro, as well.
Well, if you consider removing the association of that memory as a trigger of stress/negative reaction, our brain already does it for us when we go through therapy. So it should not be beyond the realm of science to recreate, in a more "predictable" and controllable fashion, what the brain already does for us. Why is it that some can completely get over it (lose their symptoms) and others keep it with them the rest of their lives? For example, I almost got knocked the **** out by my grandfather when I fake punched at his face...he went into military mode and almost took me out (he stopped before he actually hit me but I could tell I was a couple of seconds away from getting shit stomped by someone with mild PTSD). Even though he was completely over his PTSD (it was never that bad) he still showed signs that it wasn't fully "gotten-over".
Originally posted by inimalist
but ya, CSI is bullshit. hence why I don't pay for cable
Every episode has something in it to make at least several scientists from different fields face palm. It's worse than Star Trek, in that regard.
Originally posted by inimalist
ha, you want to talk to me about something that gets me mad, it is the fact that everyone I meet thinks psychology is only about the clinical/guidance thing. People know Freud and Dr Phil.
I think that you just admitted there was clinical applications of your work and part of how you get funding. nya nya. I do agree that that may be in part due to how much we think this should all tie back into "cures!". Everyone wants their cures or at least snake oil with science enough to make it seem like "not snake oil."
Don't get me started on "Dr." Phil.
Originally posted by inimalist
It takes pains sometimes to explain to people that I don't care about helping them with their insignificant problems that stem from all the lies they tell themselves
It seems that it doesn't take any pain at all for you to say that. Rather, you seem to enjoy saying things, "IDGAF about you pissing your bed and how it carried over into your sex life where you like to be pissed on to get off".
Remember that one time I asked you if there was something wrong with me because I was confusing memories created in dreams for memories in the real world? I thought there was something wrong with my reality association and I did not know enough about neuroscience to tell if it was the symptom of another medical problem. You were nice about it and said, "nah...there shouldn't be any problems". I'm not a hypochondriac, for sure, but every now and again, something happens that makes me thing maybe I shouldn't be so carefree. Some people look to those that are genuinely knowledgeable, or at least those that are passing themselves off as such, for comfort and legit guidance. It's in human nature. You have a great power: start taking advantage of people!
Originally posted by inimalist
cash only
Done. Do you take canadian bucks or USD?
Originally posted by inimalist
ya, I've actually got a very supportive prof that I am working for now (not that my previous one in undergrad was any different, I'm just expressing that I am ****ing lucky)
Good. At least you know you're lucky.
I want cures, damnit!
