Lu Bu -VS- Tadakatsu Honda

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occultdestroyer
The greatest and strongest warriors in Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors clash


Lu Bu, the greatest warrior of China

http://www.toyzhunt.com/files/users/56/Lu_Bu.jpg

VS

Tadakatsu Honda, the legendary samurai who remained unscathed and victorious in all of his battles in ancient Japan

http://dynastywarriors.neoseeker.com/w/i/dynastywarriors/thumb/3/3e/Tadakatsu_honda_sw2.png/400px-Tadakatsu_honda_sw2.png

Ultimate Wil
Lu Bu

ThunderGodEneru
Honda has never so much as been scathed in battle.

Lu Bu was captured and executed by Cao Cao.

Although that is from a historical standpoint, from a game standpoint they are virtual equals in every way.

Kinkin
Lu Bu

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Honda has never so much as been scathed in battle.

Lu Bu was captured and executed by Cao Cao.

Although that is from a historical standpoint, from a game standpoint they are virtual equals in every way.

Lu Bu was captured in his sleep by his own men. Lu Bu was bound and had his horse offered to Cao Cao as a gift as they were surrendering.

Lu Bu fought Guan Yu, then Zhang Fei jumped in and then Liu Bei jumped in and the three brothers combined couldn't put him down or even affect him.

If this is a one on one then Lu Bu stomps him either by shooting him or just stomping him with his halberd. If this is a war as in they are using armies to fight then Tadakatsu.

Koei makes Lu Bu the strongest in DW. They really stress him having unparalled might. Honda on the other hand had many other characters who could be considered the strongest. Keiji Maeda was actually the strongest first, but now the running for mightiest warrior is SW is Musashi Miyamoto, Tadakatsu Honda, Keiji Maeda and Toshiie Maeda.

The Last Rider
I'd give it to Lu Bu.

strifex6
if this is going by lu bu's feats in his story line in dw 6 then lu bu owns plus if he has strike mode then its no challenge.

Rogue_Agent
I would say, honestly... they are equal in almost every way. But I give it to Lu Bu, he is really skilled with many weapons, plus he has Red Hare by his side, so he strikes from the horse, and it is probably over.

Wei Phoenix
Only way Honda stands a chance of winning is if this is a war as in armies fight.

Darkstorm Zero
If going by their only comparative games (The Warriors Orochi series), you'd be hard pressed to give either one the edge...

From my own perspective, if I had to pick one, I'd say Lu Bu BARELY takes the edge... if only for that incredible performance at Hu Lao Gate is any indication, the dude practically stalled the entire coalition army solo, and it took the consolidated effort of 4 generals, (3 of which where considered amongst the deadliest of the era) JUST to force him to retreat, and that was AFTER he cut a path of devastation by single handedly demolishing over 10,000 soldiers...

occultdestroyer
Come to think of it, Lu Bu is noticably younger than Tadakatsu.

In the Warriors games, Lu Bu is 29 years old.

Tadakatsu has a daughter, Ina, who is believed to be 20+ in the games.

Logically, Tadakatsu is 40+, but still has the same strength as Lu Bu.

I dunno, but I think Tadakatsu at his prime would destroy Lu Bu.
Heck, even Yoshihiro Shimazu and Zuo Ci at their prime would destroy Lu Bu in his best day.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Come to think of it, Lu Bu is noticably younger than Tadakatsu.

In the Warriors games, Lu Bu is 29 years old.

Tadakatsu has a daughter, Ina, who is believed to be 20+ in the games.

Logically, Tadakatsu is 40+, but still has the same strength as Lu Bu.

I dunno, but I think Tadakatsu at his prime would destroy Lu Bu.
Heck, even Yoshihiro Shimazu and Zuo Ci at their prime would destroy Lu Bu in his best day.

In game Yoshi hasn't done a thing that says he can contend with Lu Bu. Any version of Zuo Ci would win, he's an immortal mystic with a shit load of magic attacks.

Darkstorm Zero
He's a mystic, but not in the same league as Fu Xi, Nu Wa, Taigong Wang or Orochi... Those dudes where considered gods/demons... Zuo Ci was a hermit who is only a few notches above guys like Zhang Jiao, Zhuge Liang and Pang Tong.

Wei Phoenix
Have you seen what he can do? Sure his durability is possibly shit as of the DW5 cutscene with Cao Cao but that can be debated whether or not he actually died, plus the fact he wasn't ready. Zuo Ci's sorcery is able to counter Da Ji and Kiyomori's. He is also able to produce copies of himself.

Darkstorm Zero
Yes, but it is also debatable wether or not he is a true 'Mystic' at their levels, he's certainly not a true immortal like them.

Producing copies isn't really all that impressive, not when compared to the Phantom Soldier techniques, and another mystic Sun Tzu was actually testing him, Zhang Jiao and Pang Tong in a DW5 Legends scenario, who was showing feats better than the 3 combined, aling with Zhuge and Sima, he would have raped them going all out, and the actual immortals are far beyond Tzu in terms of raw power and ability... Orochi warped literally hundreds, maybe even thousands of officers from across 2 eras, not forgetting possibly millions of troops...

Wei Phoenix
The other Mystics happily welcome him as one of them and they and him have both referred to him as a Mystic.

Like I said his immortality is debatable. The Legends aren't canon, just extra side stories. Zuo has also countered the phantom soldiers iirc. The phantoms aren't all that imo, Zhang Jiao was able to do it easily in 4.

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He's a mystic, but not in the same league as Fu Xi, Nu Wa, Taigong Wang or Orochi... Those dudes where considered gods/demons... Zuo Ci was a hermit who is only a few notches above guys like Zhang Jiao, Zhuge Liang and Pang Tong.
The 3 mystics consider Zuo Ci a peer, if not possibly superior.

He's like the Lu Bu of the immortals.
Considering the fact that his stats are maxed out like Lu Bu in DW5 (the only DW game he's ever been in), and his 4th weapon base attack in WO is 98. Second only to Lu Bu, Tadakatsu, and Shin Orochi.

Darkstorm Zero
The dude has aged... he's not technically immortal in that sense.

As for the others welcoming him, does that mean he IS an immortal or a mystic? No, of course not...

Duplicates are defeatable, the Phantoms arn't, the stone warriors are a better feat for Zuo... But then again, Tzu beats them all out, and the real immortals piss on him from such a height, he gets a hole in his head in 0.3 seconds flat.

@occult: Your not seriously trying to use THAT as evidence are you?

....... Seriously mate, ANYONE can be built up to those stats, and weapon modifiers arnt that much to go by, half the hightiers are 95+ attack damage characters with 4th weapons, and at least 4 are 98+ in DW5 and DW4 alone, nevermind WO1 or 2...

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The dude has aged... he's not technically immortal in that sense.

As for the others welcoming him, does that mean he IS an immortal or a mystic? No, of course not...

Duplicates are defeatable, the Phantoms arn't, the stone warriors are a better feat for Zuo... But then again, Tzu beats them all out, and the real immortals piss on him from such a height, he gets a hole in his head in 0.3 seconds flat.

@occult: Your not seriously trying to use THAT as evidence are you?

....... Seriously mate, ANYONE can be built up to those stats, and weapon modifiers arnt that much to go by, half the hightiers are 95+ attack damage characters with 4th weapons, and at least 4 are 98+ in DW5 and DW4 alone, nevermind WO1 or 2...
He is indeed immortal, as you can see in his DW5 ending.
He was the only man left standing, when everyone has fallen.
Quite an impossible feat for such an old man.

Besides, Zuo Ci was more of the passive-type of warrior.
Taigong Wang and the other mystics wanted Orochi to return in the mystic world, but he just watched as the events unfold.

BTW, Zuo Ci and Lu Bu are the only 2 characters who have max stats in DW5. The hidden values were never really revealed, but it has been proven that only they have maxed out stats.

And 4th weapon attack damage corresponds with the strength of that character in WO.
Tadakatsu, Lu Bu and Shin Orochi are obviously the strongest. Thus, their base weapon attack damage are highest. Zuo Ci is second, so that effectively that makes him the 2nd strongest after them.

Darkstorm Zero
Thats REALLY poor reasoning to assume he is anything remotely like that based on gameplay stats... The dude has done literally NOTHING to warrent anything like Mystic status, nevermind anything close to Orochi or Lu Bu, Honda or Keiji...

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The dude has done literally NOTHING to warrent anything like Mystic status, nevermind anything close to Orochi or Lu Bu, Honda or Keiji...
I think that's what makes him special.
KOEI made him such a mysterious character in DW5.
But no one can deny the fact that his stats are equal to Lu Bu's.

Anyway, back on topic.
I think Tadakatsu takes this. If he was 29 like Lu Bu, he would omfgwtfpwn Lu Bu, with nary a scratch.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
I think that's what makes him special.
KOEI made him such a mysterious character in DW5.
But no one can deny the fact that his stats are equal to Lu Bu's.

Anyway, back on topic.
I think Tadakatsu takes this. If he was 29 like Lu Bu, he would omfgwtfpwn Lu Bu, with nary a scratch.

How would Tada at 29 beat Lu Bu when he has done nothing in game that puts him at his level and we have no idea how he was at 29? Lu Bu nails him between the eyes with an arrow from like 100 yards.

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
How would Tada at 29 beat Lu Bu when he has done nothing in game that puts him at his level and we have no idea how he was at 29? Lu Bu nails him between the eyes with an arrow from like 100 yards.
Lu Bu didn't use any arrows in the games erm
Maybe historically he could wield a bow, but in the games we haven't seen this to warrant it as proof.

Of course, logically speaking, Tadakatsu would be at his peak if he were in his prime.
Younger means faster and stronger. In the games, it is noticable that Tadakatsu is slower than Lu Bu due to his old age.
Maybe if he was also 29 in the games, it would be a different story.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
I think that's what makes him special.
KOEI made him such a mysterious character in DW5.
But no one can deny the fact that his stats are equal to Lu Bu's.

Uhh, yes I can, because anyone maxed out can be that strong...

And it's gameplay rather than fact...

And yes, it said in his profile that Lu Bu was a skilled archer (even on horseback), And any character can use a bow as of DW4, although none have the prodigious skills like Huang Zhong, Xiahou Yuan or Ina (Heck, even Sun Shan Xiang from DW6 has beyond the average skill with the bow).

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Uhh, yes I can, because anyone maxed out can be that strong...

And it's gameplay rather than fact...

And yes, it said in his profile that Lu Bu was a skilled archer (even on horseback), And any character can use a bow as of DW4, although none have the prodigious skills like Huang Zhong, Xiahou Yuan or Ina (Heck, even Sun Shan Xiang from DW6 has beyond the average skill with the bow).

Lu Bu ended a war with one arrow and a halberd. Everyone used one as of DW3 actually, but Lu Bu was known to be just as skilled, he just didn't use a bow all the time because it wasn't his style.

I agree on your point about stats and stuff though.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Lu Bu didn't use any arrows in the games erm
Maybe historically he could wield a bow, but in the games we haven't seen this to warrant it as proof.

Of course, logically speaking, Tadakatsu would be at his peak if he were in his prime.
Younger means faster and stronger. In the games, it is noticable that Tadakatsu is slower than Lu Bu due to his old age.
Maybe if he was also 29 in the games, it would be a different story.

Dynasty tactics two.

Qk87eQl7R1c

Age has nothing to do with his speed. Hell Huang Zhong should be stupidly slow but he isn't, so should Sun Jian, Yoshiro. The Qiao sisters should be super fast.

XanatosForever
That...is some magnificent voice acting. hysterical

Wei Phoenix
Really the only bad one imo is Lu Bu's, not really bad but it doesn't sound as badass as his DW voices.

Darkstorm Zero
I liked his DW4 voice actor, that guy sounded badass.

"Your Flames... are no match for my Fury!"

Wei Phoenix
Yeah he was bad ass in all of them and he was super pissed if you beat Diao Chan on Xia Pi.

Darkstorm Zero
Yeah, defeating her caused him to go into blind fury andreckless charging into whoever killed her, running over any other officers in 30 seconds flat.

Wei Phoenix
His DW3 form was the hardest imo, especially when its the first DW game you ever played. Yuan Shao tells you not to pursue Lu Bu and you think you're the shit because you pwned some Yellow Turbans before this battle and a few officers on this one so you face him anyway to prove how bad ass you are at this game...then you fail...

Darkstorm Zero
In DW3 4 & 5, Lu Bu at Hu Lao can decimate a base character in 2 to 3 hits. If it's your first time, your likely to stare at the screen for 5 minutes, blinking a little, but otherwise motionless, finally you say "What the hell just happened? I only saw the guy for like, 1 second and got skinned!? WHAT BULLSHIT IS THIS!!!" That was my reaction to my first experience with Lu Bu using a new character. The guy is a noob slayer extrodinare, he'd make you repeat the Yellow Turban campaign a dozen or 3 times just to build EXP, and make you utterly HATE Zhang Jiao's voice so much, you'll be pulling out your toenails at the roots before your ready for Lu Bu's challenge.

AsbestosFlaygon
Bumping.
This has to be put to a closure.

AsbestosFlaygon
I feel like Lu Bu has once again regained his title as "Ultimate Badass" after playing Warriors Orochi 3.

His crowd-clearing C2 chokeslam proved to be indispensable in my Chaos Mode runs.
His C5 reminds me of Tadakatsu's signature C4.
He probably has the most broken Special attack in the game, where he drags his opponents with a vacuum effect.

Overall, he got a major boost in the latest installment, and seems to be on par with Tadakatsu now (or maybe even better).

L5kpo3euf1c

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I feel like Lu Bu has once again regained his title as "Ultimate Badass" after playing Warriors Orochi 3.

His crowd-clearing C2 chokeslam proved to be indispensable in my Chaos Mode runs.
His C5 reminds me of Tadakatsu's signature C4.
He probably has the most broken Special attack in the game, where he drags his opponents with a vacuum effect.

Overall, he got a major boost in the latest installment, and seems to be on par with Tadakatsu now (or maybe even better).

L5kpo3euf1c

Hmm, I beat WO3 some time ago now, I should pick it up again, but I would like to say that although Lu Bu is a complete badass, he still falls a little short of both versions of Orochi and Susanoo IMO. Outside of those two, Lu Bu is perhaps the best non-mystic in the entire game bar none.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I feel like Lu Bu has once again regained his title as "Ultimate Badass" after playing Warriors Orochi 3.

His crowd-clearing C2 chokeslam proved to be indispensable in my Chaos Mode runs.
His C5 reminds me of Tadakatsu's signature C4.
He probably has the most broken Special attack in the game, where he drags his opponents with a vacuum effect.

Overall, he got a major boost in the latest installment, and seems to be on par with Tadakatsu now (or maybe even better).

L5kpo3euf1c

Lu Bu in game has been above Tadakatsu since Tadakatsu has been introduced. Out of game mechanics he still wins. There are few people in WO3 that can outdo him.

Stealth Moose
Well, ignoring game mechanics Nezhra owns Lu Bu in under a minute, the most thorough stomping in the game really. I'd wager Susan'o, Orochi/Shin Orochi, Achilles and Nemea could give him a tough fight if not defeat him ultimately. But if you're talking Chaos playthru... Mitsuhide + typhoon * maxed final weapon = Done deal. His versatility is rather broken. Outside of high star Hard/Chaos, Nemea's musuo one-shots even the Storm God, so in that respect he is broken, and Himiko's musuo scales very nicely.

And for the thread, it's a close one but I give it to Tadakatsu. He has a cooler head and more experience.

Stealth Moose
Update: Having done some research, I can't seem to find anything official on Lu Bu's max stats or anyone else's, and there seems to be some variance among users, perhaps related to errors (counting in non-base stats), lack of proficiency (such as maxing a char with just growth points) and perhaps weapons equipped (whether or not that weapon is actually harmonious with the user).

Here's an example of people comparing stats elsewhere. Since I just got WO3 about a month or two ago and have been playing it a lot, this is new to me and very interesting. My top chars are Nemea, Da Ji, and Mitsuhide in that order, followed by Ma Chao, Achilles, Himiko, Nobunaga, Lu Meng, and Nuwa. Having played every character at least twice, it's hard to be even more specific, because there's a lot of diversity.

One of the posters in that link I provided says that Susano stomps, but that's not surprising given his Mystic badass position. When it comes to more human enemies, Honda is close and Lu Meng is surprisingly close as well.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I feel like Lu Bu has once again regained his title as "Ultimate Badass" after playing Warriors Orochi 3.

His crowd-clearing C2 chokeslam proved to be indispensable in my Chaos Mode runs.
His C5 reminds me of Tadakatsu's signature C4.
He probably has the most broken Special attack in the game, where he drags his opponents with a vacuum effect.

Overall, he got a major boost in the latest installment, and seems to be on par with Tadakatsu now (or maybe even better).

L5kpo3euf1c

Lu Bu was considered mid-tier at best in Warriors Orochi 3.

Stealth Moose
To be fair, there are a lot of OP characters like Ryu, the Mystics, Orochi/X, and so on. Lu Bu among non-Boss, non-Mystic chars is still pretty good.

Wei Phoenix
Himiko is an unfair monster.

Stealth Moose
She was my first death in the series.

Wei Phoenix
Her burst will just melt away your life on the hard difficulties. I've been doing fine plenty of times then in comes that little smiling innocent and misguided girl to joyfully slay me.

Darkstorm Zero
I have to say, Orochi X's C4 is by far the most broken thing in the game. A full powered Big Star weapon plus multi combined with the moves inate ability to make him invulnerable and you have a recipe for broken. Add in stuff like Slay or Drain and you can slay even hardcore Chaos mode bosses and their entire escort in single moves.

Stealth Moose
Very true. I have a level 14 Orochi X that I can comfortably take on Hard missions if I chose. The boss form is a pain too because he blocks from all directions naturally which is annoying when you're weakened and confronting him on Hard mode.

AsbestosFlaygon
Well, if we're talking about the strongest character in the game exclusively, then it surely has to be Xiahou Ba in WO3 and Diao Chan in WO1 & 2.

Gameplay-wise, Lu Bu's stats and moveset seem to above Tadakatsu now.
Though I have to say Tadakatsu's C4 is still one of my favorite moves in the entire Warriors series, even though it got nerfed in WO3 (the signature 4 slashes are not Charge attacks anymore).

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Well, if we're talking about the strongest character in the game exclusively, then it surely has to be Xiahou Ba in WO3 and Diao Chan in WO1 & 2.

Gameplay-wise, Lu Bu's stats and moveset seem to above Tadakatsu now.
Though I have to say Tadakatsu's C4 is still one of my favorite moves in the entire Warriors series, even though it got nerfed in WO3 (the signature 4 slashes are not Charge attacks anymore).

IIRC there is a way around that. Equip Brilliance to your weapon, and every attack has the elements attached to it. Makes swiss cheese out of everything tho :P

Stealth Moose
Okay so slightly related, who do you think are the three worst characters? Based on my experience, Goemon takes the cake. He is as useless as a priest in a whorehouse. Magoichi, even though I think he is cool, is also a pain to use in a fight. And the third worst overall would probably be hrm.... I'm not sure come to think of it. Probably Ina, but not by the same margin as the other two. Even with agility, her bow attacks seem too ineffective against crowds and I cycled her out within two battles. And she had a four star weapon.

Darkstorm Zero
Dodomeki Especially when starting out. He is basically a scaled back Kotaru Fuuma.

And Zhurong Became nearly useless after losing her boomerangs.

Stealth Moose
Yeah, good points. Dodomeki in particular is a pain in the ass to use at lower levels, and needs some serious protection since his attacks are hard to use and he's not especially strong.

Zhurong I didn't have as much trouble with but I admit she is weaker than I remember. Yuanji seems to be pretty much Zhurong + 20.

I was experimenting with all-ninja groups, and Wang Yi seems to come out on top, although Ayane and Ryu are great for obvious reasons.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Okay so slightly related, who do you think are the three worst characters?
1. Goemon Ishikawa
2. Magoichi Saika
3. Yoshimoto Imagawa


Special mentions:

Gyuki - his only saving grace is his JC
Gracia - terrible attack power and range at the start
Dodomeki - downgraded version of Kotaro


On another note, who do you think are the 3 most OP'd characters in WO3?

CosmicComet
On this topic, who do you guys rate as the best duelers in the three kingdoms saga?

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
1. Goemon Ishikawa
2. Magoichi Saika
3. Yoshimoto Imagawa


Special mentions:

Gyuki - his only saving grace is his JC
Gracia - terrible attack power and range at the start
Dodomeki - downgraded version of Kotaro


On another note, who do you think are the 3 most OP'd characters in WO3?

Gracia is pretty bad, and I disagree on Yoshimoto. His combos are decent and his charge attacks, deceptively so. He strikes me as a lethal joke character.

The three most OP chars that I have experienced so far (And mind you I have only played off and on for two months and maxed three chars) would be Orochi X, Da Ji, and Nemea.

Orochi for obvious reasons, Da Ji has great crowd control, hits hard when she has a good big star weapon, and builds up her True Triple meter fast. Nemea's musuo around max level one-shots anything but Orochi X on Normal and takes chunks off of generals in Hard. His normal, charge charge combo does a shockwave that does good damage and tends to catch generals off guard. It makes mincemeat of mooks, as usual.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by CosmicComet
On this topic, who do you guys rate as the best duelers in the three kingdoms saga?

Lu Bu
Zhang Liao
Ma Chao
Guan Yu
Xu Zhu


Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yeah, good points. Dodomeki in particular is a pain in the ass to use at lower levels, and needs some serious protection since his attacks are hard to use and he's not especially strong.

Zhurong I didn't have as much trouble with but I admit she is weaker than I remember. Yuanji seems to be pretty much Zhurong + 20.

I was experimenting with all-ninja groups, and Wang Yi seems to come out on top, although Ayane and Ryu are great for obvious reasons.

Wang Yi is closer to an assassin than a ninja.

Stealth Moose
Semantically speaking, sure. But playing style she's a Chinese ninja pretty much.

Wei Phoenix
Wouldn't a Chinese ninja be an Assassin? Playing style she's more like a single target assassin from the games I've played her in. Both of her musous work best on single targets. Hell her air musous has her diving down on a single target and dealing a lot of damage. All of the ninjas in the game use things like clones, ninjutsu/ninpo and things like that. She has nothing in common with them outside of fast attacks in my opinion. She does use a sai though so I suppose that counts for something.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Lu Bu
Zhang Liao
Ma Chao
Guan Yu
Xu Zhu


Decent top 5, but Zhang Liao doesn't belong in it.

He never had an impressive duel. This was a guy who tied with Zhang He in a duel. He's upper tier, but not elite.

I got

Lu Bu
Zhang Fei
Pang De
Ma Chao
Guan Yu

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Wouldn't a Chinese ninja be an Assassin? Playing style she's more like a single target assassin from the games I've played her in. Both of her musous work best on single targets. Hell her air musous has her diving down on a single target and dealing a lot of damage. All of the ninjas in the game use things like clones, ninjutsu/ninpo and things like that. She has nothing in common with them outside of fast attacks in my opinion. She does use a sai though so I suppose that counts for something.

Hse's got some good AoE in WO3 and though her musuo is single target it hits everyone within striking distance anyways at the end. Her Speed role, and weapon choice make her a ninja archetype. Pretty much the only ninja type in the game who doesn't use short blades is Ryu who is a Power type. Nene is I think Technique but otherwise she is very similar as Ayane, Kunoichi, etc.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by CosmicComet
On this topic, who do you guys rate as the best duelers in the three kingdoms saga?
Dian Wei
.....

Lu Bu
Zhang Fei
Wei Yan
Ma Chao

CosmicComet
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Dian Wei
.....

Lu Bu
Zhang Fei
Wei Yan
Ma Chao

Historically, I can see why you'd put Dian Wei on top. Even with the lack of duels history, (like, maybe 4 instances altogether) the sheer physical feats should be telling enough, and Dian Wei's feats are without comparison.

Novel wise, he's probably just out of the top 5.

I have no idea why Wei Yan is up there though, especially if this is novel wise (I haven't read his historical bio). He's clearly high tier by reputation, but he doesn't have a lot of duels.

His most high profile duel was against Pang De, and Pang De pushed him back. Interestingly enough, Pang De is the only guy with two high quality dueling wins under his belt, everyone else has beaten no names or had stalemates. He beat Guan Yu and Wei Yan. Zhang Fei beat Xu Zhu twice, but in one situation it was after Xu Zhu and his men just barely escaped from a flood attack and in the other, Xu Zhu was drunk.

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