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One of the most powerful Star Trek ships vs one of the most powerful warships in the Empire. Who wins?

Can someone provide some details on the Scimitar? Preferably before this is closed.

Scimitar:

Length: 890 meters
Beam: 1350 meters
Speed: At least Warp 9.7
Armament: 52 pulse disruptor cannons;
27 photon torpedo launchers;
thalaron radiation emitters
Defenses: Primary and secondary shields;
*advanced cloaking device (considered "perfect"

Doing 40 seconds of research I came to this conclusion:

Worf (I think) said that it would take the entire payload of photon torpedoes on the Enterprise to destroy an asteroid (of unknown size to me). 250 photon torpedoes on board.


Imperial-class Destroyers were blasting asteroids apart like burst bubbles. In some comic I think it was, three ISSs emerged from hyperspace and slammed right in to the Executor. They were all vaporized.


...

Yeah.

...thats one helluva ship

Yeah, Executor wins. The Scimatar was definitely one of the most dangerous ships in Trekverse, but wouldn't be able to stand up against the firepower of the Executor.

Sorry, 'Scimitar', not 'Scimatar'.

Doing 10 seconds of research, all based off of luciens post,

Executor FTW

Hit up stardestroyer.net

Star Wars ships RAPE all Star Trek ones.

Definetly Executor

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Doing 40 seconds of research I came to this conclusion:

Worf (I think) said that it would take the entire payload of photon torpedoes on the Enterprise to destroy an asteroid (of unknown size to me). 250 photon torpedoes on board.


Imperial-class Destroyers were blasting asteroids apart like burst bubbles. In some comic I think it was, three ISSs emerged from hyperspace and slammed right in to the Executor. They were all vaporized.


...

Yeah.
I think you're thinking of when Riker said something similar in The Pegasus. The only reason they couldn't blast apart the asteroid that episode is because it would have negated the entire episode. It's like why doesn't Flash cold cock all his enemies the split second their image hits his eye

Well whatever the writer's reasons for giving that bit of information, it holds.

I'm going with Trek here. This is the Romulan win button, isn't it? The one where their missiles killed time or something? This word was the reason I gave up the thread in the Trek forum.

Yeah. The Executor is outranged, outgunned (?) and outmaneuvered.

That ship can do THAT? Well f*ck that then. A ship that can kill time beats everything.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I'm going with Trek here. This is the Romulan win button, isn't it? The one where their missiles killed time or something? This word was the reason I gave up the thread in the Trek forum.

Yeah. The Executor is outranged, outgunned (?) and outmaneuvered.

Out ranged yes. But I think you're thinking of the Krenim timeship. The Scimitar is the one with the radiation weapon that can wipe out planets but it takes 7 minutes to deploy it.

I think the Executor has enough turbolasers to blast out in all directions to get a hit on the cloak/shields or the Scimitar in order to find it. Although all the Scimitar needs to do is keep moving while cloaked and while charging up the weapon then fire it while still cloaked.

Depends on whether the Executor can find/hit, track and then fire all it's weapons on the Scimitar to destroy it before it fires the Thaleron weapon.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Krenim_weapon_ship

This was it.

Instead, look at this:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Scimitar

This is the information for the on topicness.

But more importantly: omfg timegun.

Dude. A time-gun. I gotta start getting in to Star Trek.

But anyhoo. The problem for the Executor will be finding the Scimitar. I don't think they ever tell us exactly how Star Wars sensors operate. I've never heard of them tracking tachyons or "residual anti-protons" so there's no way of telling if they can or can't find them. If it does find them though, the Executor will win.

We do know that 'wars has cloaking devices ("No ship that small has a cloaking device!". Surely they've developed some sort of countermeasure.

I remember asking about them, or reading about them, and they worked both ways. You couldn't see the ship but the ship couldn't see out. I don't know if that has has changed or if I just have bad information in my head.

i remember that i think it was in the thrawn duology?

Scimitar attempts to cloak and thus violates the second law of thermodynamics and is destroyed.

stfu

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
stfu

love you <3

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
love you <3

hey!

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
hey!

Ha!

Originally posted by Autokrat
Ha!

Damnit...

nah

yeh

nah

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
We do know that 'wars has cloaking devices ("No ship that small has a cloaking device!". Surely they've developed some sort of countermeasure.

It wouldn't help even if they had. The Scimitar possessed an advanced cloaking device. Geordi stated that none of the usual anti-cloaking countermeasures (e.g. residual anti-protons) were any use against it.

The only way they were able to locate the Scimitar was that the Reman Viceroy had made a psychic connection to Troi which she was able to use to sense his location allowing the Enterprise to score enough hits to disable the cloak.

None of the usual Trek countermeasures. 'Wars may have an entirely different system. Hell, we don't know what sensors the Empire has, let alone how they deal with an unseen ship.

Ram it.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
None of the usual Trek countermeasures. 'Wars may have an entirely different system. Hell, we don't know what sensors the Empire has, let alone how they deal with an unseen ship.

Good point.

The ship cloaks and is firing on a fully shielded and battle ready Star Destroyer. It would fill space with it's fighters and scan for impacts of ot' fighters crashing into the cloaked ship. And would fire all its lasers at the space where the ship would be

Yeah the cloaking thing has become moot here. Clash of the non-existent technologies make this hard.

Originally posted by mattatom
Ram it.

wut she sed

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
wut she sed

If the Trek ship engaged the Executor without it's cloak, would the Executor be able to pentrate primary and secondary shields much less it's armor? A Quantum torpedo didn't have the punching power to pierce it's shields. What's the yield of a Wars warship? Turbolasers vs Disruptors?

If the statistics Stardestroyer.net listed are accurate, and if the Scimitar isn't a God-machine compared to the Enterprise, then it's doubtful the shielding and firepower of the Trek ship would stand up against the Executor, or even lesser 'Wars ships.


Now a Time Cannon on the other hand...

The problem with some people is that they pick ships which vary from power and size by a great gap. The Scimitar simply can't beat the Executor. It's not only too powerless, but much smaller.

A Narada vs. Executor thread (or at least a BORG vs. Executor thread) would be at least more balanced.

The Borg are always tricky to use. And I've never gotten a straight answer out of someone as to A.) Just how much energy can Borg adapt to? B.) How long does that adaptation last? and C.) To how many drones/cubes etc. does a single instance of adaption apply to?

Revan Solos.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Doing 40 seconds of research I came to this conclusion:

Worf (I think) said that it would take the entire payload of photon torpedoes on the Enterprise to destroy an asteroid (of unknown size to me). 250 photon torpedoes on board.


Imperial-class Destroyers were blasting asteroids apart like burst bubbles. In some comic I think it was, three ISSs emerged from hyperspace and slammed right in to the Executor. They were all vaporized.


...

Yeah. That was just one episode. You also have ships destroying the surface of a planet in seconds. From The Die is cast

Stardestroyer.net is a rabid fanboy site that should not be take seriously.

You have idiots over there who believe Han Solo and Chewbecca can beat a Q.

Jedi can beat Superman and other moronic stuff.

Stardestroyer.net is a laughing stock when it comes to battle boards

Originally posted by playa1258
Stardestroyer.net is a rabid fanboy site that should not be take seriously.

You have idiots over there who believe Han Solo and Chewbecca can beat a Q.

Jedi can beat Superman and other moronic stuff.

Stardestroyer.net is a laughing stock when it comes to battle boards Han can beat anyone, if he doesn't. The battle will be endless.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Borg are always tricky to use. And I've never gotten a straight answer out of someone as to A.) Just how much energy can Borg adapt to? B.) How long does that adaptation last? and C.) To how many drones/cubes etc. does a single instance of adaption apply to?

Millions of cubes, billions of drones.

That... that didn't really help, man.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That... that didn't really help, man.

I thought it was one of your questions. How many cubes and drones were there.

Of course, rereading it again I realized I misunderstood.

1. If one Borg adapts to something, the entire collective adapts to it.

2. The adaptation is permanent.

3. The amount of energy effects how hard it is to adapt. The more powerful the weapon, the more difficult to adapt to.

Originally posted by playa1258
Stardestroyer.net is a rabid fanboy site that should not be take seriously.

You have idiots over there who believe Han Solo and Chewbecca can beat a Q.

Jedi can beat Superman and other moronic stuff.

Stardestroyer.net is a laughing stock when it comes to battle boards

No one here cares even a little bit about the boards. We are citing the scholarship of Mr. Wong.

If you feel capable enough to challenge his equations then please do; appeals based purely in ethos will be ignored as fallacious in this instance.

Galen marek wins.

Originally posted by Autokrat
I thought it was one of your questions. How many cubes and drones were there.

Of course, rereading it again I realized I misunderstood.

1. If one Borg adapts to something, the entire collective adapts to it.

2. The adaptation is permanent.

3. The amount of energy effects how hard it is to adapt. The more powerful the weapon, the more difficult to adapt to. I haven't seen enough Star Trek to really know, but: I've seen like, two drones being taken out with phasers, and the drone next to them adapted to it. But later on, more drones were taken out by phasers. Unless everybody whoever engages the Borg catalogues every weapon's energy output, and then ups the output of every phaser in the Federation to match the adaptation-level... it makes no sense whatsoever for the entire Collective to adapt to every amount of energy thrown at them--how could they be killed after that, the Federation can only make their weapons so powerful.


I always figured that the drones of like, one group or squad, or whatever adapted.



Still doesn't answer as to just how much one drone or one cube CAN adapt to.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I haven't seen enough Star Trek to really know, but: I've seen like, two drones being taken out with phasers, and the drone next to them adapted to it. But later on, more drones were taken out by phasers. Unless everybody whoever engages the Borg catalogues every weapon's energy output, and then ups the output of every phaser in the Federation to match the adaptation-level... it makes no sense whatsoever for the entire Collective to adapt to every amount of energy thrown at them--how could they be killed after that, the Federation can only make their weapons so powerful.


I always figured that the drones of like, one group or squad, or whatever adapted.



Still doesn't answer as to just how much one drone or one cube CAN adapt to.

Phasers can be moduled to a different frequency, every time that happens the Borg have to adapt again. The more times the phaser is changed to a different frequency the quicker the Borg adapt.

Its somewhat convoluted. Especially since script writers changed their minds several times on how adaptation works.

I hate inconsistency. So, as long as the phaser is a different frequency, it'll hurt the Borg (until they adapt)? Does that mean they can switch to a lower one later on, after it wears off or something? Because eventually the Borg would adapt to the highest output and then the Federation would be screwed.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I hate inconsistency. So, as long as the phaser is a different frequency, it'll hurt the Borg (until they adapt)? Does that mean they can switch to a lower one later on, after it wears off or something? Because eventually the Borg would adapt to the highest output and then the Federation would be screwed.

Once the Borg adapt to a frequency, that frequency is forever useless. Its just that the frequency change has been used as a plot device so many times that it appears Federation phasers are incredibly versatile.

And then in the Enterprise show, they just made the phasers more powerful and that was good enough to temporary overload the borg's adaptation.

Frequency of phaser fire != power of phaser fire. I think.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
No one here cares even a little bit about the boards. We are citing the scholarship of Mr. Wong.

If you feel capable enough to challenge his equations then please do; appeals based purely in ethos will be ignored as fallacious in this instance.

Yeah whatever. Wong and his Jizz Slurpers worships the ICS which is a load of crap .

In AOTC Slave 1 Fires its main guns at Obi-wan and the blast was no more powerful than a stick of dynamite.

Answer this, Do you believe a Jedi such as Obi-wan who has a hard time with a normal human with a gun & jet-pack. Could Challenge Superman?

Originally posted by playa1258
Yeah whatever. Wong and his Jizz Slurpers worships the ICS which is a load of crap .

In this pair of sentences we have one (1) dismissal of a reasonable position out of hand, one (1) textbook example of fallacious ad hominem argument exhibiting one (1) thrilling case of flamboyant homophobia, one (1) unsupported assertion, and one (1) mistakenly conjugated verb relating to a pluralized noun.



That's nice. Did you ever think that maybe there was a safety feature in place to avoid igniting the surrounding atmosphere so that Boba did not incinerate his father? Or that Boba made a conscious choice not to endanger his home? Given the massively increased destructive potential of those same lasers not five minutes later in the movie, there is no way to conclude that Boba was firing at full power.


I'm having a hard time understanding how this is relevant in a thread about the relative martial prowess of two spaceships. Were we debating the merits of comic book characters in relation to Star Wars characters (or DC and/or Marvel Earth vs. the Empire) this could have been germane, but as the topic is a purely naval battle, I cannot in good conscience stray from the topic at hand.



Supes wins. Then he fights Goku and loses. Then Goku fights Kenobi (or his ghost? Or zombie form or something?) and demolishes him. Circle of life.

You didn't comment on the last part you highlighted

I mistakenly made both the homophobia key number and the unsupported assertion key number green. "Unsupported assertion" is supposed to be orange. Oh well.

I wouldn't have done that... I would've made the second green part orange.

Why would you make a mistake like that? Why would you not just do the right thing!!!

shifty

ermm

pokey

you kill a thousund borg with the deathstar then target one borg and fir those it survive

exucuter wins if you think i am wrong google star wars v.vs star treck an open the five mintue esay one

pwnd



i am a 12 year-old and no more then 75% of self proclamied big time star wars fans ask me any generel qustions and i will awnser corectly (so know stuff like how many tactions does a prefabucated garsion have (its something like 800))

Does being 12 mean you don't use punctuation, nor spell words correctly? You will find we expect you to know the SW knowledge here. That is pretty much a pre-requisite. Now can you put it in anything less than garbled English?

@ 18sec

Who beat the crap out of Mace Windu in hand-to-hand combat? Windu saw 12 hands coming at him? i mean beat him to a pulp?

That was... inspirational.


You make a very insightful and well-reasoned point. The hordes of citations and reams of evidence you have supplied us with is a real credit to your intelligence and effort.

Originally posted by 18scsc
you kill a thousund borg with the deathstar then target one borg and fir those it survive

exucuter wins if you think i am wrong google star wars v.vs star treck an open the five mintue esay one

pwnd



i am a 12 year-old and no more then 75% of self proclamied big time star wars fans ask me any generel qustions and i will awnser corectly (so know stuff like how many tactions does a prefabucated garsion have (its something like 800)) Being that you're 12, and seemingly new to this, I'd say any of the senior members here could whoop you at knowledge about Star Wars.


And being that you're 12, you're abilities to reason and rationalize are severely limited, so pardon us if we won't be trusting your word.


Plus isn't it against the rules to be under 14 here, or something?

Also, he said he was 13 in the other thread.


So we have two options here:

1) This kid can't count.
2) It's a troll.


I offer solutions to both options:

1) This kid is younger than regulated age => Ban.
2) Ban.

i will be 13 in 8 days (feburay 27) so i exatrated a litel bit ok? bye the way i am in double ap math ( 9th grade math or algbra whatever you want to call it) . and i am do know a lot about star wars i am not deinieng you probly know more than me just saying that i am not an idiot.
by the way restricted age is 13.
i know lots of so called big time star wars fans but only 1 of them (out of 9 ) actualy knew who darth bane was

(isint this off topic)

Originally posted by 18scsc
and i am do know a lot about star wars

well. Congratulations.

Originally posted by 18scsc
i will be 13 in 8 days (feburay 27) so i exatrated a litel bit ok? bye the way i am in double ap math ( 9th grade math or algbra whatever you want to call it) . and i am do know a lot about star wars i am not deinieng you probly know more than me just saying that i am not an idiot.
by the way restricted age is 13.
i know lots of so called big time star wars fans but only 1 of them (out of 9 ) actualy knew who darth bane was

(isint this off topic) That one was probably Neb, so your standing hasn't improved. Also, maths and algebra won't help you here. Proper grammar, spelling and punctuation will.

Originally posted by mattatom
That one was probably Neb, so your standing hasn't improved. Also, maths and algebra won't help you here. Proper grammar, spelling and punctuation will.

Not true. If he's gotten to algebra then he has probably been through geometry. My geom. class included basic proofs (transitive property, etc.). If that is the case, we can look forward to lots and lots of A>B B=C A>C "proofs."

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Not true. If he's gotten to algebra then he has probably been through geometry. My geom. class included basic proofs (transitive property, etc.). If that is the case, we can look forward to lots and lots of A>B B=C A>C "proofs." Though how will that help us if we can't undesrstand him? Since ABC's don't work anyway my point is still valid.

Executor! That ship has a planet's-worth of firepower, as one source put it. It makes capital ships look like toys! NOTHING stands up to Executor! ESPECIALLY if Vader himself is onboard commanding it!

Shadow I agree,that 's the freaking Executor!!!
I wouldn't have made this thread.
Scimitar vs Rogue Shadow now that's fair fight.

And the one I really have to think about because I like them both.
Executor!! all the way.

You should have said Death Star now that's a thread that's probably will go 10 or 17 threads long
Darth Shadow 1 this your que either topic man let's go me and you start it off!!!! lol !

Who's "Shadow"? lol Silly Saruman:


bXPLFcJA9fM

I Mean Sadow..... funny guy...lol.
What do you think about this thread?

Originally posted by juyomaster34
I Mean Sadow..... funny guy...lol.
What do you think about this thread?
Me? I have always loved Executor, so i have always been a little biased. I was sad when it got brought down in VI....The Damn A-Wing! I am a big fan of the Empire and their amazing weapons of mass destruction.

Me,too I Like the walkers and both Death Stars.
They always had the coolest WMD's.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Me,too I Like the walkers and both Death Stars.
They always had the coolest WMD's.
And the World Devistators, and the Galaxy Gun, and both Eclipses, and Executor, and dark Troopers.... Sigh....I wish the Empire was still around....The Yuuzan Vong bug me too much....

I admit I kinda like and hate the Vongs,
their biological warfare overwhelmed the NJO
Plus their experiments with vornskrs.

I like their bio tech.

Yeah. The Vong made the Empire and the Republic join forces. That is seriously evil stuff.

It made the Remnant and Republic join forces.

The remnant of the EMPIRE

The Vongs were indeed a serious threat many Jedi died
Their biotech is very interesting.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Doing 40 seconds of research I came to this conclusion:

Worf (I think) said that it would take the entire payload of photon torpedoes on the Enterprise to destroy an asteroid (of unknown size to me). 250 photon torpedoes on board.


Imperial-class Destroyers were blasting asteroids apart like burst bubbles. In some comic I think it was, three ISSs emerged from hyperspace and slammed right in to the Executor. They were all vaporized.


...

Yeah.

Now where did you get such information? Let's go by the most recent Trek series, Enterprise, which is the oldest in story Timeline. And that Enterprise, NX01, is hundreds of years more inferior than what Picard was the Captain of. Now at the end of season 2 that Enterprise was just equipped with photonic torpeods and Tactical officer Reed stated just one of them could blast a hole 3,000 meters deep into an asteroid. That's nearly 2 miles into solid rock!!!! And in the Trek universe we see them evolve into using Quantum then Transphasic torpedoes. Also, when the old Enterprise was testing out it's new Phasic beams they blasted a mountain the size of Mount McKinley.

I understand fans of either side of the fence will always declare their universe better, but Trek is more intelligently based in Science and Star Wars was meant to look cool on a movie screen. When George Lucas came up with this stuff he has the same mentality as when Megan Fox was picked for the Transformers movie because she looked hot in a mini skirt.

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
Me? I have always loved Executor, so i have always been a little biased. I was sad when it got brought down in VI....The Damn A-Wing! I am a big fan of the Empire and their amazing weapons of mass destruction.

Yeah, a single A-Wing brought it down. Amazing how some many Wars fans claim these ships are battle ready when a rag-tag bunch of Rebels kicked their ass. IF Star Destroyers were worth anything they STILL should have won the Battle Of Endor even without the Death Star. Once the Death Star bit the dust the rest was a formality.

We should also take into consideration the Empires choices of Captains and Commanders appeared to be a collection of bummbling idiots. How about their inability to track the Falcon and having to hire Bounty Hunters. I'm sure it would of sat well with Worf had Picard had to hire some Nausicans to hunt down Tasha Yar.

Oh yeah, sorry for the late threads bumps.

No offense but replying to archaic history is, I don't know, a bit tacky.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
No offense but replying to archaic history is, I don't know, a bit tacky.

I'd say more but you sum it up nicely DC.

Slave I wrecks the Scimitar: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

Originally posted by danyeo
Yeah, a single A-Wing brought it down.

After the entire Alliance fleet fired on it continuously and brought down its shields and the bridge's deflector array was destroyed and the command deck was rammed by said A-Wing



Just like the Maquis

They were really unorganized in the beginnings of rebellion, but the Alliance was far more organized than the small cells that barely caught the Empire's attention, which is why they were able to build in number so fast. Additionally, they had the shipyards of Mon Calamari producing capital ships that almost rivaled Imperial I and II SD's (more so the I), not to mention Home One. They won because they were good at hiding, running, manipulating, briefly attacking, doing small jobs to wither away at the Empire, etc., and eventually the Emperor made a miscalculation, and you know the rest.



You underestimate the Alliance Fleet. While the Empire did have a great military leader at the fight (Piett), the Emperor's miscalculations were the main reason they lost the fight. Since the imp fleet was standing by while the Death Star picked away at the Rebels. The Alliance was losing until they destroyed the Executor, which left the fleet without a fleet commander, and they splintered and lost.



The problem with the Empire is many of the high ranking officers got their positions through manipulation rather than being worthy of the position. Piett, Veers, Thrawn, and Tarkin are the best commanders in the Empire that I can think of. They were all trained for war, not hunting insurgents.



They're trained for hunting, Imperial officers are trained for war

/thread

Originally posted by Tondemonai




The problem with the Empire is many of the high ranking officers got their positions through manipulation rather than being worthy of the position. Piett, Veers, Thrawn, and Tarkin are the best commanders in the Empire that I can think of.

Those 4 were the best, but no. The average officer is quite good at commanding and are worthy of their position.

Sure some Officers did get their position through political means rather than earning it, but not all of them did. It's noted and shown through a few comics, sourcebooks that Imp Officers generally are good thinkers.

Also one thing that is incredibly overlooked regarding the Rebellion. The Empire inadvertently helped them out with defectors which include former pilots. Who are considered the best in the galaxy(only 10% actually get commissions that complete their training and the academy doesn't take above average skill, meaning it has to be more than just that.), which means hello to all information regarding Imperial tactics and all that.